Re: [CGUYS] shrifted

[Eric S. Sande]

Granted, the situation above is in a densely populated area, and service 
is slower outside the cities, but we should have comparable choices in 
our cities, subsidized or not, instead of just 10% of those speeds here. 
Is there a technical roadblock?


There are several technical roadblocks, mainly those of scale.

I've tried to explain those in other posts.  Our effort amounts to
rebuilding the telecom infrastructure on a short timeline without
subsidies, and we expect to make a profit eventually doing it.

Right now it's capital investment but my shareholders still expect
dividends every quarter.

We have things like pass rate versus take rate to consider.

Believe it or not there are people who aren't interested even if
they can get it and it's less expensive and usually better than what 
they have.


I'm betting that this investment will pay off.  I'm really counting on
the big cities to provide the economies of scale that will make
this pay off.

But regulatory approval has only recently come through for New
York and DC.  This is on a community by community basis and
is far more involved than a casual perspective would suggest.

I've tried to provide a relatively unbiased perspective on this
and shed some light on the difficulties involved.  I WANT to
do this, I think we HAVE to do this, and I want to be involved
in doing it.

But private industry is the way to go here.  I want to compete,
I expect to.  I am prepared to.  I have the technology, the experience
in large scale infrastructure, and the people to do it.  What I need
is not money, no state subsidies necessary.  Just grease the
regulatory skids a little and I've got the technology to make it a
reality.  I'll create the jobs, good jobs, and deliver a profitable
outcome for my stockholders and a state of the art broadband
network.

Are you sure you can trust me?  Well, nobody ever lost their shirt
betting on American know-how when the chips were down.

What's the downside?  Well, I'm in it for the money.  I'll be
absolutely honest about that.  One reason I can deliver great
world-class product to Americans is because I have American
employees that are well-compensated and trained, respected by
their employer, and are stakeholders in the business.

It's simple, it works.  The economy isn't in recession because
my people and I don't technically know how to deliver superior
product, we do.  We've proven it.  All we're asking for is a
chance.

We may not be financial wizards but we're not broke yet.  And
we are definitely not ready yet to take money we didn't create
from our own efforts.

And that will be my last political post.



  




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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

I got to drive one of those things while I was in college.  5 speed, 
kept going from 2 to 5th.  arhhh.  Shifter was a 
short throw and I was not used to it.


Still sweet so was the girl who owned it.

Stewart


At 04:32 PM 2/18/2009, you wrote:

I used to do the same thing with my Porsche 914 (aka wannabe
Volkswagon, but designed by Porsche). That car was to much fun! 110
miles/hr racing a girl down I-84 in Oregon. Not smart, but fun.
Another great thing about the 914 was, as a convertible, your hair
wouldn't get messed up even at freeway speeds. Perfect aerodynamic
design. Top down, no wind inside, perfect. Plus sitting 6" off the
ground with a turning and handling ration that kicked butt. What a lot
of fun that thing was. Still miss it.

Jeff M


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Windows Vista download

[Chris Dunford]

> Mark Minasi mentioned in his last newsletter that he 'downloaded' Vista
> Premium SP1 to repair his computer on the road.  Does anyone know where
> that might be?

He probably has a subscription to MSDN or something similar.  I'm not aware
of any other way to download Vista without paying for it.


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Re: [CGUYS] Windows Vista download

[Tony B]

He may have had an image backed up somewhere that he could download.
But AFAIK MS doesn't sell the OS via download.

Depending which versions & licenses you had in the stolen kit, you may
or may not be out of luck.


On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Brian Jones  wrote:
> Mark Minasi mentioned in his last newsletter that he 'downloaded' Vista 
> Premium SP1 to repair his computer on the road.  Does anyone know where that 
> might be?
>
> Last month while passing through Nashville, some bozo knocked the window out 
> of my van and took my computer took kit that was hidden under the rear seat, 
> including my collection of Windows CD's for each flavor/variation that 
> Microsoft released back to Windows 3.1.  I need to replace the disc's so I 
> can continue to repair customers computers... but I don't need a licensed 
> copy to do so.  (Therefore, this is not a question about pirating!)
>


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[CGUYS] Windows Vista download

[Brian Jones]

Mark Minasi mentioned in his last newsletter that he 'downloaded' Vista Premium 
SP1 to repair his computer on the road.  Does anyone know where that might be?

Last month while passing through Nashville, some bozo knocked the window out of 
my van and took my computer took kit that was hidden under the rear seat, 
including my collection of Windows CD's for each flavor/variation that 
Microsoft released back to Windows 3.1.  I need to replace the disc's so I can 
continue to repair customers computers... but I don't need a licensed copy to 
do so.  (Therefore, this is not a question about pirating!)


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Steve at Verizon]

Although Tom and I duked it out on the political front, I wholeheartedly 
agree with him on the iPod front. For the first few years, I was an 
Apple rebel and tried several mp3 players like Rio and several iRivers, 
but finally succumbed to the mini and shuffle a couple of years ago. 
Good functionality and ease of use, and (don't laugh) I actually like 
iTunes and its integration with the iPods. I found iTunes so much easier 
than WMP or Winamp, especially when editing the ID3 tags.


Don't think I'll go so far as to switch from PC to Mac though, 
especially as the Win 7 beta screams on my Lenovo laptop.


Tom Piwowar wrote:

Marketing is Apple's biggest strength.



No. Apple's biggest strength is building great products. From time to 
time Apple has tried to sell us things that were not insanely great and 
in those cases Apple fared no better than Zune.



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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[John Emmerling]

The cars were made in Japan, elsewhere in Asia, and North America.  My '88
Civic was made in Canada.  Same thing today.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 5:17 PM, mike  wrote:

> They may have been japan based companies, but were the cars made here?
> iPods arent assembled here AFAIK?
>


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Tom Piwowar]

>I think the car companies could take a lesson from Apple. Keeping  
>this computer related. Who'd thought of an iPod before Apple took over  
>the market? And now everyone is riding, far behind, on their coat  
>tails. Why don't car companies do this? I see pictures of all these  
>concept cars at the shows, but rarely on the road.

Actually, many companies. I had been shopping for an MP3 player for a 
couple of years before Apple came out with the iPod. Every one I looked 
at was not acceptable. Then I saw the iPod. Everything I had wanted in a 
player was there and executed even better that I had hoped for.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Tom Piwowar]

>Marketing is Apple's biggest strength.

No. Apple's biggest strength is building great products. From time to 
time Apple has tried to sell us things that were not insanely great and 
in those cases Apple fared no better than Zune.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[b_s-wilk]

Ok, so you refute some of my possibilities.  Do you have any idea why we don't have them?  If it is true that customers want them or it is recognized that they would want them, and their are no impediments in law to selling them then surely there are enough salesmen out their to figure it out and sell them. 


Low C.A.F.E. standards and huge advertising budgets, plus obscenely high 
profit margins on SUVs. Add in cheap gas. It's all marketing--the macho 
thing--no more wimpy station wagons, no more wimpy minivans, no wimpy 
little cars, ads during football games. It works.


I have quite a few friends whose husbands bought monster 4x4s and left 
them home for the ladies to go to the supermarket and sports practice. 
My neighbor has a white Hummer that is always sparkling clean--no mud. 
She takes the kiddies to school in it.


I just want a Honda Monkey for around town.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Wright]

> Not just sell them here, they're talking about building most of them
> here
> (some in Mexico). See http://tinyurl.com/d522d9.

That's excellent news.  I would love the chance to get an 500 Abarth, tho' I
doubt they'll sell that here.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Wright]

>   I used to do the same thing with my Porsche 914 (aka wannabe
> Volkswagon, but designed by Porsche). That car was to much fun! 110
> miles/hr racing a girl down I-84 in Oregon. Not smart, but fun.

Ah yes, youth.  I once got my Honda CBR600F up to 135 MPH before I thought,
"that's fast enough."

No, not smart at all, but dear GOD what fun.  Never been so scared and
delighted at the same time.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[mike]

Foxconn is a major builder for motherboards, apple is just one account.

Why own a plant and have all those headaches also?  Outsource the
manufacturing to a company that does this for a living.  I have a friend on
IRC who works at a shop in San Jose that builds some of the chips in ipods.
AFAIK, Apple doesn't build anything, they require specs, but they don't
build anything.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Jeff Miles  wrote:

>Thanks for the link, but it opens another host of questions. Are
> these companies strictly building for Apple, or is there a possible conflict
> if they build for others? I can't see a conflict, but others might. With the
> $ Apple makes I'm surprised they don't make their own stuff, own the plants,
> etc. Apple, after all, is a control freak. Or does Apple have controlling
> interest in these companies? I didn't do the research.
>
> Jeff M
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2009, at 2:59 PM, mike wrote:
>
>  http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/12/29/new.imac.contracts/
>>
>> some interesting stuff about manufacturing
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Jeff Miles  wrote:
>>
>>   Ok, this brings up another point. Where is my Apple (iMac) being
>>> build and assembled?
>>>
>>> Jeff M
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Miles]

	Thanks for the link, but it opens another host of questions. Are  
these companies strictly building for Apple, or is there a possible  
conflict if they build for others? I can't see a conflict, but others  
might. With the $ Apple makes I'm surprised they don't make their own  
stuff, own the plants, etc. Apple, after all, is a control freak. Or  
does Apple have controlling interest in these companies? I didn't do  
the research.


Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 2:59 PM, mike wrote:


http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/12/29/new.imac.contracts/

some interesting stuff about manufacturing


On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Jeff Miles   
wrote:


  Ok, this brings up another point. Where is my Apple (iMac)  
being

build and assembled?

Jeff M



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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[mike]

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/12/29/new.imac.contracts/

some interesting stuff about manufacturing


On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Jeff Miles  wrote:

>Ok, this brings up another point. Where is my Apple (iMac) being
> build and assembled?
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2009, at 2:17 PM, mike wrote:
>
>  They may have been japan based companies, but were the cars made here?
>> iPods arent assembled here AFAIK?
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:08 PM, John Emmerling > >wrote:
>>
>>  Marketing is Apple's biggest strength.
>>>
>>> Which reminds me of an incident about 2 decades ago.  My wife and I had a
>>> Japanese student at our house for a home stay of 3 weeks.  His English
>>> was
>>> relatively good for a Japanese student.  Anyway, we had watched TV with
>>> him
>>> on several occasions.  One evening, he made the observation that all the
>>> automobile ads he saw on TV seemed to be for products of Japan-based
>>> companies.  So far as we could tell, he was essentially right.  Remember,
>>> this was the 80's.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Jeff Miles 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   I think the car companies could take a lesson from Apple. Keeping
 this computer related. Who'd thought of an iPod before Apple took over

>>> the
>>>
 market?

>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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> - Elbert Hubbard
>
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>
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Wayne Dernoncourt]

Jeff Wright
>> Ok, so you refute some of my possibilities.  Do you
>> have any idea why we don't have them?  If it is true
>> that customers want them or it is recognized that
>> they would want them, and their are no impediments in
>> law to selling them then surely there are enough
>> salesmen out their to figure it out and sell them.

> I agree with you in principle, but I think that the
> conservative and risk-averse monoculture within US
> auto companies is the largest factor at work.  As
> long as gas was cheap, they convinced themselves
> that Americans would never buy small, but well
> designed cars from Europe, even though the Japanese
> were eating their lunch with smaller cars.
  

I have to agree with you about the monoculture part.
How long has VW, Toyota, Datsun/Nissan & Honda been
selling cars in the US?  How long have import sales
gone up and domestic sales down?  Have often were
those two trends reversed?  Shouldn't that say
something about the success of the Detroit mindset?

-- 
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Wayne D.   | supply this, at least not directly
Imagination is more important than knowledge! - Einstein


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Miles]

	That's a whole other thought for a milking machine. However, I don't  
think that's what he was referring to. Anyone hungry?


Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 2:25 PM, gerald wrote:


i thought they were going to run on methane from cow manure

At 03:34 PM 2/18/2009, you wrote:
There were political reasons to force us into using our food for  
fuel.


Wasn't Charlton Heston involved in that?



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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Miles]

	Ok, this brings up another point. Where is my Apple (iMac) being  
build and assembled?


Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 2:17 PM, mike wrote:


They may have been japan based companies, but were the cars made here?
iPods arent assembled here AFAIK?

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:08 PM, John Emmerling  
wrote:



Marketing is Apple's biggest strength.

Which reminds me of an incident about 2 decades ago.  My wife and I  
had a
Japanese student at our house for a home stay of 3 weeks.  His  
English was
relatively good for a Japanese student.  Anyway, we had watched TV  
with him
on several occasions.  One evening, he made the observation that  
all the

automobile ads he saw on TV seemed to be for products of Japan-based
companies.  So far as we could tell, he was essentially right.   
Remember,

this was the 80's.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Jeff Miles   
wrote:


  I think the car companies could take a lesson from Apple.  
Keeping
this computer related. Who'd thought of an iPod before Apple took  
over

the

market?



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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Miles]

	I used to do the same thing with my Porsche 914 (aka wannabe  
Volkswagon, but designed by Porsche). That car was to much fun! 110  
miles/hr racing a girl down I-84 in Oregon. Not smart, but fun.
	Another great thing about the 914 was, as a convertible, your hair  
wouldn't get messed up even at freeway speeds. Perfect aerodynamic  
design. Top down, no wind inside, perfect. Plus sitting 6" off the  
ground with a turning and handling ration that kicked butt. What a lot  
of fun that thing was. Still miss it.


Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:


Fiat (Fix It Again Tony!), which used to be in the US
market, and could conceivably leverage their investment
in Chrysler to sell their cars here again


Not just sell them here, they're talking about building most of them  
here

(some in Mexico). See http://tinyurl.com/d522d9.

I used to have a 124 "Spider" when I was young & single. God, I  
loved that
car. I used to just sit in it at night with the engine running,  
gazing at
all the dials, lights, gauges, & toggle switches. Now I have a  
minivan.

Sigh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_124_Sport_Spider



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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[gerald]

i thought they were going to run on methane from cow manure

At 03:34 PM 2/18/2009, you wrote:
>>There were political reasons to force us into using our food for fuel.
>
>Wasn't Charlton Heston involved in that?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[mike]

They may have been japan based companies, but were the cars made here?
iPods arent assembled here AFAIK?

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:08 PM, John Emmerling wrote:

> Marketing is Apple's biggest strength.
>
> Which reminds me of an incident about 2 decades ago.  My wife and I had a
> Japanese student at our house for a home stay of 3 weeks.  His English was
> relatively good for a Japanese student.  Anyway, we had watched TV with him
> on several occasions.  One evening, he made the observation that all the
> automobile ads he saw on TV seemed to be for products of Japan-based
> companies.  So far as we could tell, he was essentially right.  Remember,
> this was the 80's.
>
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Jeff Miles  wrote:
>
> >I think the car companies could take a lesson from Apple. Keeping
> > this computer related. Who'd thought of an iPod before Apple took over
> the
> > market?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Miles]

Wasn't that the decade of the K car?
	I do agree with some's assumptions that US car companies can't seem  
to get it together. The K car was one of the ugliest tin boxes  
conceived. But I think that was marketing. You're right. Chrysler  
didn't want to sell K cars. So show good faith by making an ugly piece  
of tin while accepting the government bailout. And now they want it  
again. Let them die, as a company. Though if I was in the market, the  
new Lincoln looks pretty sweet. Thank God I'm not in the market.


Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 2:08 PM, John Emmerling wrote:


Marketing is Apple's biggest strength.

Which reminds me of an incident about 2 decades ago.  My wife and I  
had a
Japanese student at our house for a home stay of 3 weeks.  His  
English was
relatively good for a Japanese student.  Anyway, we had watched TV  
with him
on several occasions.  One evening, he made the observation that all  
the

automobile ads he saw on TV seemed to be for products of Japan-based
companies.  So far as we could tell, he was essentially right.   
Remember,

this was the 80's.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Jeff Miles   
wrote:


  I think the car companies could take a lesson from Apple.  
Keeping
this computer related. Who'd thought of an iPod before Apple took  
over the

market?


The friend is the man who knows all about you, and still likes you.
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[mike]

Well you don't have to give up your suburban...just offset it with the dual
purpose.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 2:34 PM, C Ballinger  wrote:

> The Wall Street Journal recently had a piece about dual purpose bikes being
> cheap and good for commuters.
>
> I like the idea of fluid mobility, but am no where ready to willingly give
> up my kid and cargo-hauling suburban. What I wonder about is getting too old
> to start riding. Older first-time riders are their own accident and injury
> pool that I'm happy paying a little extra to personally and anecdotally
> avoid.
>
> They're not as cheap as the jspanese makes, but the bmw's have some very
> nice cargo bag systems. And heated grips! 
>
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2009, at 15:52, mike  wrote:
>
>  Yamaha is claiming one of it's dual purpose bikes gets over 70mpg.  I was
>> looking at this for a home to work solution.
>>
>> http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/574/0/home.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Jeff Wright  wrote:
>>
>>  Even then scooter/,motorcycles are not all that efficient.

>>>
>>> Most motorcycles will get city MPG in the 40's.
>>>
>>> When my wife and I first started dating, she lived in Adams Morgan in DC,
>>> which has very little parking.  Getting a space is dumb luck and not even
>>> a
>>> Smart car will save you.
>>>
>>> I got tired of driving around and looking for spaces all the time, so I
>>> started riding in on my motorcycle and parked on the sidewalk (out of the
>>> way of pedestrians) in front of her building.  That worked out really
>>> well.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Chris Dunford]

> Fiat (Fix It Again Tony!), which used to be in the US 
> market, and could conceivably leverage their investment 
> in Chrysler to sell their cars here again

Not just sell them here, they're talking about building most of them here
(some in Mexico). See http://tinyurl.com/d522d9.

I used to have a 124 "Spider" when I was young & single. God, I loved that
car. I used to just sit in it at night with the engine running, gazing at
all the dials, lights, gauges, & toggle switches. Now I have a minivan.
Sigh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_124_Sport_Spider


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[John Emmerling]

Marketing is Apple's biggest strength.

Which reminds me of an incident about 2 decades ago.  My wife and I had a
Japanese student at our house for a home stay of 3 weeks.  His English was
relatively good for a Japanese student.  Anyway, we had watched TV with him
on several occasions.  One evening, he made the observation that all the
automobile ads he saw on TV seemed to be for products of Japan-based
companies.  So far as we could tell, he was essentially right.  Remember,
this was the 80's.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Jeff Miles  wrote:

>I think the car companies could take a lesson from Apple. Keeping
> this computer related. Who'd thought of an iPod before Apple took over the
> market?


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Miles]

	I have to clarify something on my positions here. Most of my thinking  
is probably skewed by this. I don't drive. I used to, but have found  
the cost is way over my need. Thanks to computers I can do damn near  
everything at home. I have a 7-11 and Albertson's within walking  
distance. So I get my exercise. And when I do go places I make  
arrangements. Costs much less monthly then owning a car. Unfortunately  
I don't live in downtown Seattle. In the hub area the buses are free.  
And they come by every 5-10 minutes, depending on where you're going.  
Where I live it's $30/month for a pass. That beats the hell out of  
gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. for a car every month.
	Now I can spend my savings on computers and other stuff. I'm out  
there trying to stimulate the economy.


Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 1:34 PM, C Ballinger wrote:

The Wall Street Journal recently had a piece about dual purpose  
bikes being cheap and good for commuters.


I like the idea of fluid mobility, but am no where ready to  
willingly give up my kid and cargo-hauling suburban. What I wonder  
about is getting too old to start riding. Older first-time riders  
are their own accident and injury pool that I'm happy paying a  
little extra to personally and anecdotally avoid.


They're not as cheap as the jspanese makes, but the bmw's have some  
very nice cargo bag systems. And heated grips! 






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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Miles]

	I think the car companies could take a lesson from Apple. Keeping  
this computer related. Who'd thought of an iPod before Apple took over  
the market? And now everyone is riding, far behind, on their coat  
tails. Why don't car companies do this? I see pictures of all these  
concept cars at the shows, but rarely on the road.
	Retooling a factory is a misnomer in that the car is still basically  
the same. You only retool parts of the factory. The thing still has a  
frame and four wheels (mostly, depending). It still has a wind shield,  
seats, steering wheel, glove box, etc. So the retooling arguments the  
car companies give doesn't fly with me.


Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:


Ok, so you refute some of my possibilities.  Do you have any idea why
we don't have them?  If it is true that customers want them or it is
recognized that they would want them, and their are no impediments in
law to selling them then surely there are enough salesmen out their  
to

figure it out and sell them.


I agree with you in principle, but I think that the conservative and
risk-averse monoculture within US auto companies is the largest  
factor at
work.  As long as gas was cheap, they convinced themselves that  
Americans
would never buy small, but well designed cars from Europe, even  
though the

Japanese were eating their lunch with smaller cars.

I don't know a lot about the business end itself, but I suspect it  
takes a
good bit of capital to start selling a new car line in the US.  Mini  
was
able to ride the coat tails of BMW and Smart had buzz.  Fiat (Fix It  
Again
Tony!), which used to be in the US market, and could conceivably  
leverage
their investment in Chrysler to sell their cars here again.  But you  
also

would need to have parts suppliers, certified mechanics, etc.

I don't blame US car companies for manufacturing and selling what  
was in
demand, but they do bear the blame for not being smarter and having  
a more
diverse model lineup, or at least being prepared for when things  
changed.




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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Miles]

Wow, from politics to restaurants to maps. Ain't this list fun?

Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:


Madam's Organ:

http://tinyurl.com/bbmktf



-Original Message-
Madam's Organ was around in the 70s, punk,.  A punk lounge.
Apparently it's still there (Adams Morgan is in NW section of D.C.),
as a bar/restaurant.   It's not what it used to be, but you've got to
love the name.





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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[C Ballinger]

The Wall Street Journal recently had a piece about dual purpose bikes  
being cheap and good for commuters.


I like the idea of fluid mobility, but am no where ready to willingly  
give up my kid and cargo-hauling suburban. What I wonder about is  
getting too old to start riding. Older first-time riders are their own  
accident and injury pool that I'm happy paying a little extra to  
personally and anecdotally avoid.


They're not as cheap as the jspanese makes, but the bmw's have some  
very nice cargo bag systems. And heated grips! 



On Feb 18, 2009, at 15:52, mike  wrote:

Yamaha is claiming one of it's dual purpose bikes gets over 70mpg.   
I was

looking at this for a home to work solution.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/574/0/home.aspx



On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Jeff Wright   
wrote:



Even then scooter/,motorcycles are not all that efficient.


Most motorcycles will get city MPG in the 40's.

When my wife and I first started dating, she lived in Adams Morgan  
in DC,
which has very little parking.  Getting a space is dumb luck and  
not even a

Smart car will save you.

I got tired of driving around and looking for spaces all the time,  
so I
started riding in on my motorcycle and parked on the sidewalk (out  
of the
way of pedestrians) in front of her building.  That worked out  
really well.



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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[mike]

Would you say it's the same problem as in the music industry?  And film?
The car companies will be dragged kicking and screaming to higher profits?

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Jeff Wright  wrote:

> > Ok, so you refute some of my possibilities.  Do you have any idea why
> > we don't have them?  If it is true that customers want them or it is
> > recognized that they would want them, and their are no impediments in
> > law to selling them then surely there are enough salesmen out their to
> > figure it out and sell them.
>
> I agree with you in principle, but I think that the conservative and
> risk-averse monoculture within US auto companies is the largest factor at
> work.  As long as gas was cheap, they convinced themselves that Americans
> would never buy small, but well designed cars from Europe, even though the
> Japanese were eating their lunch with smaller cars.
>
> I don't know a lot about the business end itself, but I suspect it takes a
> good bit of capital to start selling a new car line in the US.  Mini was
> able to ride the coat tails of BMW and Smart had buzz.  Fiat (Fix It Again
> Tony!), which used to be in the US market, and could conceivably leverage
> their investment in Chrysler to sell their cars here again.  But you also
> would need to have parts suppliers, certified mechanics, etc.
>
> I don't blame US car companies for manufacturing and selling what was in
> demand, but they do bear the blame for not being smarter and having a more
> diverse model lineup, or at least being prepared for when things changed.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Wright]

Madam's Organ:

http://tinyurl.com/bbmktf


> -Original Message-
> Madam's Organ was around in the 70s, punk,.  A punk lounge.
> Apparently it's still there (Adams Morgan is in NW section of D.C.),
> as a bar/restaurant.   It's not what it used to be, but you've got to
> love the name.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Wright]

> Ok, so you refute some of my possibilities.  Do you have any idea why
> we don't have them?  If it is true that customers want them or it is
> recognized that they would want them, and their are no impediments in
> law to selling them then surely there are enough salesmen out their to
> figure it out and sell them.

I agree with you in principle, but I think that the conservative and
risk-averse monoculture within US auto companies is the largest factor at
work.  As long as gas was cheap, they convinced themselves that Americans
would never buy small, but well designed cars from Europe, even though the
Japanese were eating their lunch with smaller cars. 

I don't know a lot about the business end itself, but I suspect it takes a
good bit of capital to start selling a new car line in the US.  Mini was
able to ride the coat tails of BMW and Smart had buzz.  Fiat (Fix It Again
Tony!), which used to be in the US market, and could conceivably leverage
their investment in Chrysler to sell their cars here again.  But you also
would need to have parts suppliers, certified mechanics, etc.

I don't blame US car companies for manufacturing and selling what was in
demand, but they do bear the blame for not being smarter and having a more
diverse model lineup, or at least being prepared for when things changed.  


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Melissa Bell]

Madam's Organ was around in the 70s, punk,.  A punk lounge.   
Apparently it's still there (Adams Morgan is in NW section of D.C.),  
as a bar/restaurant.   It's not what it used to be, but you've got to  
love the name.



On Feb 18, 2009, at 3:52 PM, Roger D. Parish wrote:


At 3:39 PM -0500 2/18/09, Tom Piwowar wrote:

 >I really need to visit the East coast. When you say "Adams  
Morgan" it

sounds as if she lived at some guys house. In other words, I have no
idea what you're talking about.


And when we refer to it as "Madams Organ" you will be even more  
confused.


Isn't that a bar/restaurant?
--
Roger
Lovettsville, VA


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Wright]

>   I really need to visit the East coast. When you say "Adams
> Morgan" it
> sounds as if she lived at some guys house. In other words, I have no
> idea what you're talking about.
>   As to the motorcycle idea. I'd feel comfortable with one if I
> lived
> in the country, but never in some place like Seattle. I'd be dead in
> the first couple of days.

It's an area within the District, known mostly for restaurants and
nightclubs these days.

If you seen "In the Line of Fire", you've seen Adams Morgan.  My wife's
building was literally across the street from Clint's "apartment" on Belmont
Rd.  They would film him going into it at 4 AM, lighting the whole street
with these massive lights suspended overhead.

She also literally bumped into Malkovich in his homeless guy outfit while
they were filming down near the White House.  She didn't realize it was him
until a few moments later, as he was so much into character and heavily
costumed.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[mike]

Yamaha is claiming one of it's dual purpose bikes gets over 70mpg.  I was
looking at this for a home to work solution.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/574/0/home.aspx



On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Jeff Wright  wrote:

> > Even then scooter/,motorcycles are not all that efficient.
>
> Most motorcycles will get city MPG in the 40's.
>
> When my wife and I first started dating, she lived in Adams Morgan in DC,
> which has very little parking.  Getting a space is dumb luck and not even a
> Smart car will save you.
>
> I got tired of driving around and looking for spaces all the time, so I
> started riding in on my motorcycle and parked on the sidewalk (out of the
> way of pedestrians) in front of her building.  That worked out really well.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Roger D. Parish]

At 3:39 PM -0500 2/18/09, Tom Piwowar wrote:


 >I really need to visit the East coast. When you say "Adams Morgan" it 

sounds as if she lived at some guys house. In other words, I have no 
idea what you're talking about.


And when we refer to it as "Madams Organ" you will be even more confused.


Isn't that a bar/restaurant?
--
Roger
Lovettsville, VA


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Miles]

	I'm kind of with your thinking along the tax thing. It's probably an  
import thing. And this is odd. Since Ford is one of the builders you'd  
think they'd want the business here. There's probably a lot more going  
on then we, the average person, knows about.


Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Matthew S. Taylor wrote:

Ok, so you refute some of my possibilities.  Do you have any idea  
why we don't have them?  If it is true that customers want them or  
it is recognized that they would want them, and their are no  
impediments in law to selling them then surely there are enough  
salesmen out their to figure it out and sell them.


Matthew

On Feb 18, 2009, at 2:45 PM, b_s-wilk wrote:

Why do you think we don't have them now?  I honestly have no idea  
but it could be one of the following:


I do have an idea and the stats.

1.  The cars do not meet US safety standards as currently  
configured.


Wrong.

The Fiat 500/Ford Ka has a 5 star crash test rating, as does the  
MINI, Ford Focus, Ford Kuga, Peugeot 1007/2007. The Smart fortwo  
has a 4 star crash test rating and is already sold in the US; same  
4-star rating for the Honda Fit/Jazz, also sold here.


2. The cars do not meet US or California emissions standards (no  
catalytic converter).


They're diesel. The new diesels are as clean or cleaner than  
current petrol cars, and many have catalytic converters. Some may  
not need catalytic converters, however CCs can be installed if  
needed to meet CA rules. Not an issue.


3.  The cars do not appeal to a large enough share of the market  
to warrant their importation or construction of a domestic plant.


The original Ford Focus sold like the proverbial hotcakes in its 3- 
door version. The MINI is selling fairly well, even in an awful  
market, and also as a 5-star crash test rating. Honda sold over 2  
million Fit/Jazz as of July 2007. GM's biggest problem is that they  
can't pay customers enough to buy their gas guzzlers, and the Opel  
Astra is a Saturn instead of a Chevy where it should sell better.  
Press release, Ford Motors, June 2008: "...Ford's redesigned Focus  
posted record May sales of 32,579, up 53 percent versus a year  
ago..."



4.  The tax rules for importation do not favor these vehicles.


That's excellent! Those cars can be built in the defunct Chrysler  
and GM factories by American workers. GM can retool to build more  
Opels--Astra and Corsa, and whatever the GM Chevy of the year is  
[not Matiz!]. As gas prices go back up, many of these cars can be  
sold in the US, if we can get them. We can look forward to hybrid/ 
electric/hydrogen versions of these vehicles, too.


Betty




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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Matthew S. Taylor]

Ok, so you refute some of my possibilities.  Do you have any idea why  
we don't have them?  If it is true that customers want them or it is  
recognized that they would want them, and their are no impediments in  
law to selling them then surely there are enough salesmen out their to  
figure it out and sell them.


Matthew

On Feb 18, 2009, at 2:45 PM, b_s-wilk wrote:

Why do you think we don't have them now?  I honestly have no idea  
but it could be one of the following:


I do have an idea and the stats.


1.  The cars do not meet US safety standards as currently configured.


Wrong.

The Fiat 500/Ford Ka has a 5 star crash test rating, as does the  
MINI, Ford Focus, Ford Kuga, Peugeot 1007/2007. The Smart fortwo has  
a 4 star crash test rating and is already sold in the US; same 4- 
star rating for the Honda Fit/Jazz, also sold here.


2. The cars do not meet US or California emissions standards (no  
catalytic converter).


They're diesel. The new diesels are as clean or cleaner than current  
petrol cars, and many have catalytic converters. Some may not need  
catalytic converters, however CCs can be installed if needed to meet  
CA rules. Not an issue.


3.  The cars do not appeal to a large enough share of the market to  
warrant their importation or construction of a domestic plant.


The original Ford Focus sold like the proverbial hotcakes in its 3- 
door version. The MINI is selling fairly well, even in an awful  
market, and also as a 5-star crash test rating. Honda sold over 2  
million Fit/Jazz as of July 2007. GM's biggest problem is that they  
can't pay customers enough to buy their gas guzzlers, and the Opel  
Astra is a Saturn instead of a Chevy where it should sell better.  
Press release, Ford Motors, June 2008: "...Ford's redesigned Focus  
posted record May sales of 32,579, up 53 percent versus a year ago..."



4.  The tax rules for importation do not favor these vehicles.


That's excellent! Those cars can be built in the defunct Chrysler  
and GM factories by American workers. GM can retool to build more  
Opels--Astra and Corsa, and whatever the GM Chevy of the year is  
[not Matiz!]. As gas prices go back up, many of these cars can be  
sold in the US, if we can get them. We can look forward to hybrid/ 
electric/hydrogen versions of these vehicles, too.


Betty




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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Tom Piwowar]

>There were political reasons to force us into using our food for fuel.

Wasn't Charlton Heston involved in that?


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Tom Piwowar]

>You are talking about that car right?

Yes indeed. Looks like a car with the back half sawed off.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Tom Piwowar]

>I really need to visit the East coast. When you say "Adams Morgan" it  
>sounds as if she lived at some guys house. In other words, I have no  
>idea what you're talking about.

And when we refer to it as "Madams Organ" you will be even more confused.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[b_s-wilk]

Why do you think we don't have them now?  I honestly have no idea but it could 
be one of the following:


I do have an idea and the stats.



1.  The cars do not meet US safety standards as currently configured.


Wrong.

The Fiat 500/Ford Ka has a 5 star crash test rating, as does the MINI, 
Ford Focus, Ford Kuga, Peugeot 1007/2007. The Smart fortwo has a 4 star 
crash test rating and is already sold in the US; same 4-star rating for 
the Honda Fit/Jazz, also sold here.




2. The cars do not meet US or California emissions standards (no catalytic 
converter).


They're diesel. The new diesels are as clean or cleaner than current 
petrol cars, and many have catalytic converters. Some may not need 
catalytic converters, however CCs can be installed if needed to meet CA 
rules. Not an issue.




3.  The cars do not appeal to a large enough share of the market to warrant 
their importation or construction of a domestic plant.


The original Ford Focus sold like the proverbial hotcakes in its 3-door 
version. The MINI is selling fairly well, even in an awful market, and 
also as a 5-star crash test rating. Honda sold over 2 million Fit/Jazz 
as of July 2007. GM's biggest problem is that they can't pay customers 
enough to buy their gas guzzlers, and the Opel Astra is a Saturn instead 
of a Chevy where it should sell better. Press release, Ford Motors, June 
2008: "...Ford's redesigned Focus posted record May sales of 32,579, up 
53 percent versus a year ago..."




4.  The tax rules for importation do not favor these vehicles. 


That's excellent! Those cars can be built in the defunct Chrysler and GM 
factories by American workers. GM can retool to build more Opels--Astra 
and Corsa, and whatever the GM Chevy of the year is [not Matiz!]. As gas 
prices go back up, many of these cars can be sold in the US, if we can 
get them. We can look forward to hybrid/electric/hydrogen versions of 
these vehicles, too.


Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Miles]

	I really need to visit the East coast. When you say "Adams Morgan" it  
sounds as if she lived at some guys house. In other words, I have no  
idea what you're talking about.
	As to the motorcycle idea. I'd feel comfortable with one if I lived  
in the country, but never in some place like Seattle. I'd be dead in  
the first couple of days.


Jeff M


On Feb 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:


Even then scooter/,motorcycles are not all that efficient.


Most motorcycles will get city MPG in the 40's.

When my wife and I first started dating, she lived in Adams Morgan  
in DC,
which has very little parking.  Getting a space is dumb luck and not  
even a

Smart car will save you.

I got tired of driving around and looking for spaces all the time,  
so I
started riding in on my motorcycle and parked on the sidewalk (out  
of the
way of pedestrians) in front of her building.  That worked out  
really well.



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Re: [CGUYS] I Bought a BIG Mistake

[b_s-wilk]

Thanks, but they don't work with my 1st G iPod (ancient, but keeps on 
ticking). I figured that if I had to but speakers and a player I might as 
well get a player that had speakers. In my book 1 box is better than 2 
boxes.


Good idea--unless you want portable speakers to use with more than one 
device. We carry an iPod or two on trips, a portable 
AM/FM-stereo/shortwave radio, and a CD player [for when we buy CDs on 
the road], so the TravelSound speakers are perfect. Otherwise, Creative 
and Griffin have good small speakers, as long as you get the ones that 
use the stereo mini plug instead of the dock connector.


In the house I use an FM transmitter [for the car] plugged into my 
computer, powered by a tiny AC to DC converter, so I can listen on any 
radio in the house or outside in the yard, up to about 200 ft. My 
husband has an RCA Lyra transmitter.



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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Wright]

> Even then scooter/,motorcycles are not all that efficient.

Most motorcycles will get city MPG in the 40's.

When my wife and I first started dating, she lived in Adams Morgan in DC,
which has very little parking.  Getting a space is dumb luck and not even a
Smart car will save you.  

I got tired of driving around and looking for spaces all the time, so I
started riding in on my motorcycle and parked on the sidewalk (out of the
way of pedestrians) in front of her building.  That worked out really well.


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Re: [CGUYS] shrifted

[Reid Katan]

Quoting rleesimon :


cuz I'm so thrilled with the speed I have so far since my dialup was about
10-20 at best (what with the original phone lines in the garden state some
of which date back to Mr. Watson)... when I get sick of this speed, I'll go
up ...for now I can see movies and youtube and send good pics &vids and dld
50mb executables with aplomb ...usta take a week !!


True dat. Back in the day, I used to get large downloads going to run  
over night. My computer--with WinNT on it--was close to my bed and  
would beep when the modem disconnected. All too often I'd hear it  
disconnect early in the morning, look at the progress, and see it 97%  
done.


I'm glad *those* days are over.

Katan


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

For around town riding a scooter would be fine.

For shopping and such in our area a mini would be better.

No question both of these vehicles (Smartcar/mini) are overpriced.

When I travel for meetings we carpool and a sedan is a must.

Depends on where you live and your needs.  I see very few people who 
need the huge SUV's or pickemups.  They are a status symbol clearly.


We down sized from a mini van to a sedan when the middle son moved out.

It was advantageous as gas prices zoomed shortly after we did this.

Even then scooter/,motorcycles are not all that efficient.

Stewart


At 09:50 AM 2/18/2009, you wrote:

Yes, I know.  Not the point, though.

A Mini is nice (made by BMW), but they're overpriced.  I'd take a motorcycle
over a Smart; just as practical and a helluva lot more fun.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] I Bought a BIG Mistake

[Jeff Wright]

> Well that answers the question if you were wondering about the identity
> of our leading purveyor of disinformation.

I was wondering when you'd get around to blaming someone else for you own
torpid thinking.  The blindingly craptacular decision you made was
self-inflicted.

I own an iPod and have said many times that there are many other very good
and less expensive flash-based MP3 players other than an iPod, specifically
Sandisks.  Not once did I ever say "You've got to get yourself a cheap,
Chinese knockoff that they sell in dollar stores and souvenir vans!"

Had you bothered to do 3 minutes of research on external speakers, you would
have saved yourself a lot of time and trouble, but then you would have
deprived us of good, solid entertainment value.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Wright]

> -Original Message-
> Actually Smart Car is a division of Mercedes Benz.
>
> My preference would of course be a Mini.

Yes, I know.  Not the point, though.

A Mini is nice (made by BMW), but they're overpriced.  I'd take a motorcycle
over a Smart; just as practical and a helluva lot more fun.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[mike]

http://www.smartusa.com/

You are talking about that car right?

Available in your area (probably).



On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Jeff Wright  wrote:

> > >I'm no Europhile, but it's a crime that we don't have access to these
> > >wonderfully made, small, fun cars that they do have in Europe.
> >
> > Im seeing lots of "Smart" cars on the street here in DC.
>
> Yes, but that's rather buying a Coby, no?  No thanks.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Actually Smart Car is a division of Mercedes Benz.

Pretty good cars.

My preference would of course be a Mini.

Stewart


At 09:32 AM 2/18/2009, you wrote:


Yes, but that's rather buying a Coby, no?  No thanks.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Jeff Wright]

> >I'm no Europhile, but it's a crime that we don't have access to these
> >wonderfully made, small, fun cars that they do have in Europe.
> 
> Im seeing lots of "Smart" cars on the street here in DC.

Yes, but that's rather buying a Coby, no?  No thanks.


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[mike]

Politics.

There were political reasons to force us into using our food for fuel.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Matthew S. Taylor  wrote:

> Why do you think we don't have them now?  I honestly have no idea but it
> could be one of the following:
>
> 1.  The cars do not meet US safety standards as currently configured.
>
> 2. The cars do not meet US or California emissions standards (no catalytic
> converter).
>
> 3.  The cars do not appeal to a large enough share of the market to warrant
> their importation or construction of a domestic plant.
>
> 4.  The tax rules for importation do not favor these vehicles.
>
> As I said, I don't know.  It does strike me though that if the market was
> so obvious, the demand so strong, that Fiat et. al. would already be
> shipping them here.  That they are not indicates that there is a business
> reason for not doing so, as businesses will not typically long ignore pent
> up demand.
>
> Matthew
>
> On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:59 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I'm no Europhile, but it's a crime that we don't have access to these
>> wonderfully made, small, fun cars that they do have in Europe.  We don't get
>> the Fiat 500 Abarth, or the Ford Ka or the Citroen Picasso line.  What do we
>> get in the US?  Pathetic, tiny econoboxes that rattle down the road,
>> wheezingly emphysemic in reality and offering barely any better mileage than
>> larger cars.  (Toyota Yaris and Nissan Versa are close to the real Euro car,
>> but no deal.)  If for no other reason, GM and Chrysler deserve the bone yard
>> for that.  Adapt or die; no wait, just die already Chrysler, you moth-eaten,
>> giant sucking sound.  You haven't made a good car since 1973.  Ford will be
>> bringing its brilliant Fiesta to the US next year.
>>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

The emission standard is a unique one.  Only Canada and us require 
catalytic convertors.  They have managed to reduce emissions using a 
different system.


When I lived in Canada their emission standard was different than 
ours and many cars you bought north of the border could not be 
imported to the US.


I saw Lada's, Skoda's etc. in Canada that I never saw down 
here.  When I moved back in the mod 80's I even had to trade my nice 
station wagon in for a US EPA certified auto to import across the border.


That has changed now with the Free Trade Act, as cars can freely move 
north and south of the border, plus with fuel injection.


That is why you do not see some of those cars down here.

Stewart


At 08:39 AM 2/18/2009, you wrote:

Why do you think we don't have them now?  I honestly have no idea but
it could be one of the following:

1.  The cars do not meet US safety standards as currently configured.

2. The cars do not meet US or California emissions standards (no
catalytic converter).

3.  The cars do not appeal to a large enough share of the market to
warrant their importation or construction of a domestic plant.

4.  The tax rules for importation do not favor these vehicles.

As I said, I don't know.  It does strike me though that if the market
was so obvious, the demand so strong, that Fiat et. al. would already
be shipping them here.  That they are not indicates that there is a
business reason for not doing so, as businesses will not typically
long ignore pent up demand.

Matthew


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POL

[Tom Piwowar]

>I'm no Europhile, but it's a crime that we don't have access to these 
>wonderfully made, small, fun cars that they do have in Europe.

Im seeing lots of "Smart" cars on the street here in DC.


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Re: [CGUYS] I Bought a BIG Mistake

[Tom Piwowar]

>> Who am I to believe?

Unnamed person replied...
>[Cut to: Elzar's Fine Cuisine. Leela strolls out of the kitchen, whistling
>casually. Elzar serves Zoidberg.] 

Well that answers the question if you were wondering about the identity 
of our leading purveyor of disinformation.


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Re: [CGUYS] I Bought a BIG Mistake

[Tom Piwowar]

>I have one of these and it is good enough for spoken word sort of things.
>
>at $11 it should be cheap enough and it is very portable.
> 

Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Matthew S. Taylor]

Why do you think we don't have them now?  I honestly have no idea but  
it could be one of the following:


1.  The cars do not meet US safety standards as currently configured.

2. The cars do not meet US or California emissions standards (no  
catalytic converter).


3.  The cars do not appeal to a large enough share of the market to  
warrant their importation or construction of a domestic plant.


4.  The tax rules for importation do not favor these vehicles.

As I said, I don't know.  It does strike me though that if the market  
was so obvious, the demand so strong, that Fiat et. al. would already  
be shipping them here.  That they are not indicates that there is a  
business reason for not doing so, as businesses will not typically  
long ignore pent up demand.


Matthew

On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:59 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:



I'm no Europhile, but it's a crime that we don't have access to  
these wonderfully made, small, fun cars that they do have in  
Europe.  We don't get the Fiat 500 Abarth, or the Ford Ka or the  
Citroen Picasso line.  What do we get in the US?  Pathetic, tiny  
econoboxes that rattle down the road, wheezingly emphysemic in  
reality and offering barely any better mileage than larger cars.   
(Toyota Yaris and Nissan Versa are close to the real Euro car, but  
no deal.)  If for no other reason, GM and Chrysler deserve the bone  
yard for that.  Adapt or die; no wait, just die already Chrysler,  
you moth-eaten, giant sucking sound.  You haven't made a good car  
since 1973.  Ford will be bringing its brilliant Fiesta to the US  
next year.



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Re: [CGUYS] I Bought a BIG Mistake

[Jeff Wright]

> But the propaganda on this list was that I was paying a huge "Apple
> tax"
> and getting nothing for the extra cost.
> 
> Who am I to believe?

[Cut to: Elzar's Fine Cuisine. Leela strolls out of the kitchen, whistling
casually. Elzar serves Zoidberg.] 


Elzar: Here you go, big spender. Foie gras and caviar. 

[Zoidberg sniffs the food.] Zoidberg: Goose liver? Fish eggs? [He eats it
and spits it out.] Pah! Where's the goose? Where's the fish? 

Elzar: Hey, that's what rich people eat. The garbage parts of the food. 

Zoidberg: I ate garbage yesterday and it didn't cost me $300! I'm not
paying. [He puts on a top hat.] Farewell, good sir! 


[He leaves with a very classy scuttle and woop.] 


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Re: [CGUYS] I Bought a BIG Mistake

[John Duncan Yoyo]

I have one of these and it is good enough for spoken word sort of things.

at $11 it should be cheap enough and it is very portable.


 


-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] What? Me Worry? - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! -- OT! POLITICS! or something like it

[Jeff Wright]

> It's a Ford Fiesta ECOnetic--costs ~US$13,000. The Ford Fiesta will be
> sold in the US beginning late 2009, but it won't be diesel.
> http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/02/ford-will-give.html
> 
> I read about a Ford Focus clean diesel that also gets 65 mpg, but that
> was on a Brit site, so it was probably an imperial gallon. Equivalent
> US
> gallon efficiency .83 x 65 = 53.95 mpg, still much better than the
> gasoline powered version; test rating is only 45 mpg. The Euro version
> is a 3-door/5-door hatchback. [However they'd probably ruin it by
> making
> it a pointless sedan if it came to the US.]
> 
> The Ford Ka also has a diesel, but you'll probably never see one here,
> http://snipurl.com/c3gbx. It's fun to drive, --based on the new Fiat
> 500, Euro car of the year for 2008, http://snipurl.com/c3gzy. In US, it
> might cost ~$10,000, but you can't have one!

The Smart diesel will get about 85 MPG, but no, we yanks can't have one.

The other problem with diesel, for now at least, is that you pay a 30% premium 
over regular gas and in most cars and the better mileage is eaten up by the 
fuel costs.  Yes, you emit less CO2, but you pay for that privilege.

I'm no Europhile, but it's a crime that we don't have access to these 
wonderfully made, small, fun cars that they do have in Europe.  We don't get 
the Fiat 500 Abarth, or the Ford Ka or the Citroen Picasso line.  What do we 
get in the US?  Pathetic, tiny econoboxes that rattle down the road, wheezingly 
emphysemic in reality and offering barely any better mileage than larger cars.  
(Toyota Yaris and Nissan Versa are close to the real Euro car, but no deal.)  
If for no other reason, GM and Chrysler deserve the bone yard for that.  Adapt 
or die; no wait, just die already Chrysler, you moth-eaten, giant sucking 
sound.  You haven't made a good car since 1973.  Ford will be bringing its 
brilliant Fiesta to the US next year.

I will say that the Honda Fit is the bright exception.  While not offering 
staggering mileage (28/35 - city/highway), it's intelligently designed, 
incredibly utilitarian and fun to drive.  Yes, I know you can by A Smart car, 
but I wouldn't be caught dead in one of those silly, roller skates of a car.

The VW Jetta TDI is the closest we can get.  It offers 35/45 MPG.  Not as small 
or practical as a Fit, but it's a normal sedan (or "saloon").  When I get the 
next car, it's down between that and a Honda Accord, which when I sit in, just 
feels right all over.  It will be a tough sell for me not to get an Accord.


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Re: [CGUYS] shrifted

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Here is what I pay (for the services rendered, no options)

Cable/Internet bundled it is 105 per month.  This includes no premium 
channels, digital option, and 5MPS cable service.


Phone service is 69.95 a month for unlimited usage.

Tivo service 16.95 per month plus 9.95 for extra receiver.

Now add all those up and it is way over 170 a month for all three 
services.  If I could bundle them for 140-170 a month I would be saving money.


However that is not going to happen since Charter has said they will 
declare bankruptcy and they are not upgrading anything in our area.


Only other option is satellite, but if I take that option I loose one 
of the networks as the local network is [laying hardball with the 
satellite providers (both) and we cannot get it by Antenna.


Population density helps competition in some respects.

Stewart


At 06:52 AM 2/18/2009, you wrote:

My FiOS is about $140/month with the 1 year teaser rate.  That includes
about $25 in taxes and is still less than I was paying for Comcast cable and
Internet ($133 and going up constantly), phone ($42) and long distance ($8
without making a single call).  That also includes the $15/month DVR, which
I will probably keep after the free year expires.

It's a much better product than I was getting with Comcast (plus faster
Internet) and there have been zero outages since getting FiOS back in
October.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] shrifted

[Jeff Wright]

> $170 a month! They and you are out of your minds. That is just a crazy
> price.

My FiOS is about $140/month with the 1 year teaser rate.  That includes
about $25 in taxes and is still less than I was paying for Comcast cable and
Internet ($133 and going up constantly), phone ($42) and long distance ($8
without making a single call).  That also includes the $15/month DVR, which
I will probably keep after the free year expires.

It's a much better product than I was getting with Comcast (plus faster
Internet) and there have been zero outages since getting FiOS back in
October.


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Re: [CGUYS] I Bought a BIG Mistake

[db]

A friend of mine has the Bose docking station also.  The sound is quite 
good and loud.


db

Jeff Miles wrote:
I don't really care about this subject. I'm not a music person. 
But my mom bought an iPod, (no clue as to generation but it's 80 gig 
or something) and also bought a Bose docking station. It all seems to 
work great. If fact it can get so loud it drives me out of the house. 
I guess you get what you pay for.


Jeff M


On Feb 17, 2009, at 5:32 PM, b_s-wilk wrote:

>There are plenty of reasonably priced external speakers for the 
iPod, or >even docking stations which are portable.
And they are big and bulky. I'm looking for something like a 
portable radio, not a boom box, that will play MP3s and not require 
that I walk around the house wearing earphones. Is that too much to 
ask for?


I bought a pair of Creative TravelSound speakers about 6 years ago 
when they were on sale, and traveled with them in my carry-on bag 
until I dropped them enough times that they only work with the AC 
adapter. Found another pair online for $12.50 this year. They're 
pretty loud, even have "surround sound" switch that's very good in a 
medium sized room. I'll try not to drop these. [similar to 
http://snipurl.com/c31us]. Creative also has speakers that attach 
directly to a Nano, but I don't know how good the sound quality is.



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