Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:48 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Not all players are alike...even the ipod will play lossless files. Other players on the market also have better sound than the ipod, and play FLAC or other lossless formats. It's all digital so it doesn't really make any difference. The point is more likely she's putting those cd's in a good quality sound system, the fact the digitized music is on a piece of plastic or on a hard drive or other data drive makes no difference in the sound. While I can agree with your basic point about digitized music, the difference is in how one listens to that music and what they use to listen to it. A few years ago, the minimum defacto standard for listening to music was something along the lines of a what a college student would have in their dorm room. That would typically be a bookshelf stereo system, but could go all the way up to real audiophile (to one degree or another) sound system. These days, the defacto standard has become something held in the hand and listened to using earbuds or music heard through a crappy cell phone speaker, but can go all the way up to a dock for that handheld player that comes complete with 3 speakers. Wooweee, let's party! Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Constance, I am not a professional but very much an amateur. I have some very good SLR's but at this point cant afford a DSLR. However even professionals used point and shoots and even Polaroids to do pre work. My dad (whose old exackta I have) even had point and shoots for the everyday stuff. A DSLR is for good work. I get a kick out of the folks who run around with DSLR's. It is a status symbol or like bling to them, it does not make their picture taking any better. Stewart At 01:38 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote: Compact digital cameras: here's a news flash: not everyone can afford the latest multi-megapixel digital SLR with a lens as long as your forearm. A moderately-priced point-and-shoot will let you do serious photography on a budget. And if you only want snapshots of your vacation to email to your homeys, a compact digital camera will do the job just as well as a large, expensive SLR. As someone who grew up in a family with a couple of dozen cameras around the house at all times--my dad was a professional photographer--I can tell you that this guy definitely doesn't know what he is talking about. --Constance Warner Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Talk about lowering ones standards. Stewart At 08:07 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote: While I can agree with your basic point about digitized music, the difference is in how one listens to that music and what they use to listen to it. A few years ago, the minimum defacto standard for listening to music was something along the lines of a what a college student would have in their dorm room. That would typically be a bookshelf stereo system, but could go all the way up to real audiophile (to one degree or another) sound system. These days, the defacto standard has become something held in the hand and listened to using earbuds or music heard through a crappy cell phone speaker, but can go all the way up to a dock for that handheld player that comes complete with 3 speakers. Wooweee, let's party! Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
-Compact digital cams..just because DSLR is getting cheaper doesn't mean these little point and shoots are going anywhere. Yeah. DSLRs don't fit very well in a tiny purse, plus they're overkill for most people, who only want to take snapshots. Even DSLR owners mostly have point-and-shoots for non-serious shooting. I went on a business trip last fall thought I might want a few snaps. We have two nice DSLRs, but I borrowed my daughter's hot pink Fuji FinePix and left the DSLRs on the shelf. Cell phone cameras are getting better, but they're still a long ways from a decent PS. They'll be around for a while. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: Constance, I am not a professional but very much an amateur. I have some very good SLR's but at this point cant afford a DSLR. However even professionals used point and shoots and even Polaroids to do pre work. Or even to do real work. A better camera can be useful, but the real key is in the eye and mind of the person holding whatever camera. I get a kick out of the folks who run around with DSLR's. It is a status symbol or like bling to them, it does not make their picture taking any better. Pretty much true. Ashton Kutcher selling Nikons tells me that Nikon has lowered their sights to target the lowest common denominators amongst us. Ditto for Maria Sharapova and Canon. Nothing like getting the word from sex symbols. Who knew they were also camera experts? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Better lossless formats and better MP3 players, to fully replace CD's? Well, perhaps. But if you're the agent for one of the classical groups that's looking for a job, would you take a chance on emailing the potential employer a digital file, of ANY format? Do you really think the concert promoter is going to sit there with his/ her computer and say, Well, this is Format A, not Format B, so I should make allowances for the fact that the music might sound crappy when I play it on my laptop or put it on my iPod? Or that you could count on the concert promoter knowing much about the technical side of digital files, or exactly what to do with them? Absolutely not. You, the agent, are going to give the group you represent the best possible chance of getting that gig, and that means sending out a CD of their work that can be played on many devices; including on a decent stereo setup, where the potential employer can get the best possible read on whether or not the group is good enough and whether or not it fits in with the rest of the classical music series' season. As a listener, I don't want to settle for less than the concert promoter gets. And I kind of doubt that the average consumer is going to educate himself/herself on the comparative quality of various types of digital music files, or to become an expert in exactly how to rig output devices to get the best fidelity sound (the way the old hi-fi geeks used to do). He/She is going to download the music in whatever way is quickest and most convenient, and put it on his/her iPod to listen to on the subway or while walking the dog. Which isn't a bad thing; long subway rides are monotonous and boring, and it's nice to have songs piped into your ears to make the ride seem shorter. But, under the circumstances, the sound quality won't be the same as you'd get from a CD. (Which is why I'm going to continue buying them, even though it's an obsolete consumer product.) --Constance Warner On Jan 18, 2010, at 2:48 AM, mike wrote: Not all players are alike...even the ipod will play lossless files. Other players on the market also have better sound than the ipod, and play FLAC or other lossless formats. It's all digital so it doesn't really make any difference. The point is more likely she's putting those cd's in a good quality sound system, the fact the digitized music is on a piece of plastic or on a hard drive or other data drive makes no difference in the sound. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote: Sounds like the latest stuff from very young computer fan-boys. Also sounds like replacing better products with worse. Examples: CD's: much better sound quality than MP3 files. And they won't go away if your hard drive crashes or you lose your iPod. I know someone who auditions groups for a classical music series: she insists on CD's from the artists who are trying to get the jobs. An MP3 player just won't tell her enough about the groups, and CD's are professional standard in cases like these. If you're willing to settle for less quality in your music, by all means don't buy CD's. ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
You completely bipass the portable cassette player. Not exactly the high end of audio devices. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 7:07 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:48 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Not all players are alike...even the ipod will play lossless files. Other players on the market also have better sound than the ipod, and play FLAC or other lossless formats. It's all digital so it doesn't really make any difference. The point is more likely she's putting those cd's in a good quality sound system, the fact the digitized music is on a piece of plastic or on a hard drive or other data drive makes no difference in the sound. While I can agree with your basic point about digitized music, the difference is in how one listens to that music and what they use to listen to it. A few years ago, the minimum defacto standard for listening to music was something along the lines of a what a college student would have in their dorm room. That would typically be a bookshelf stereo system, but could go all the way up to real audiophile (to one degree or another) sound system. These days, the defacto standard has become something held in the hand and listened to using earbuds or music heard through a crappy cell phone speaker, but can go all the way up to a dock for that handheld player that comes complete with 3 speakers. Wooweee, let's party! Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Pretty much true. Ashton Kutcher selling Nikons tells me that Nikon has lowered their sights to target the lowest common denominators amongst us. Ditto for Maria Sharapova and Canon. Nothing like getting the word from sex symbols. Who knew they were also camera experts? That's true, but Canon has ALSO been running a lot of ads for their new DSLR (the one that can shoot HD video). That dude, with lens, will set you back $3,500. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
The average comsumer will not...but someone whose business is music should be educated enough to know. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote: And I kind of doubt that the average consumer is going to educate himself/herself on the comparative quality of various types of digital music files, or to become an expert in exactly how to rig output devices to get the best fidelity sound (the way the old hi-fi geeks used to do). He/She is going to download the music in whatever way is quickest and most convenient, and put it on his/her iPod to listen to on the subway or while walking the dog. Which isn't a bad thing; long subway rides are monotonous and boring, and it's nice to have songs piped into your ears to make the ride seem shorter. But, under the circumstances, the sound quality won't be the same as you'd get from a CD. (Which is why I'm going to continue buying them, even though it's an obsolete consumer product.) --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Reel to reel used to be the gold standard. LP's came next then other tape formats. 8tracks and cassettes were seen as consumer level formats to get it into the hands of the great unwashed. Still Reel to Reel and LP was seen as much superior. MP3 is equivalent to the cassette and 8track. It is a consumer level product meant to get the music into the great unwashed's hands, Studios and Radio stations still deal in the hard format of CD. Studios instead of using multi track equipment (tape) now use computers and hard storage, but rip directly to CD. Stewart At 09:35 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote: You completely bipass the portable cassette player. Not exactly the high end of audio devices. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 7:07 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:48 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Not all players are alike...even the ipod will play lossless files. Other players on the market also have better sound than the ipod, and play FLAC or other lossless formats. It's all digital so it doesn't really make any difference. The point is more likely she's putting those cd's in a good quality sound system, the fact the digitized music is on a piece of plastic or on a hard drive or other data drive makes no difference in the sound. While I can agree with your basic point about digitized music, the difference is in how one listens to that music and what they use to listen to it. A few years ago, the minimum defacto standard for listening to music was something along the lines of a what a college student would have in their dorm room. That would typically be a bookshelf stereo system, but could go all the way up to real audiophile (to one degree or another) sound system. These days, the defacto standard has become something held in the hand and listened to using earbuds or music heard through a crappy cell phone speaker, but can go all the way up to a dock for that handheld player that comes complete with 3 speakers. Wooweee, let's party! Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: That's true, but Canon has ALSO been running a lot of ads for their new DSLR (the one that can shoot HD video). That dude, with lens, will set you back $3,500. Yeah, but how many megapixels does it have? That's all I want to know. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
I totally agree--it's the photographer, not the fancy equipment, that makes the picture. Witness, for example, the cult of the Holga, a toy camera from China that comes in a wide variety of colors and retails for around $30. The Holga has quite a following among professional photographers, who win prizes with pictures taken on Holgas. In the DC area, you can pick up a Holga today at Penn Camera. On Jan 18, 2010, at 10:10 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: Constance, I am not a professional but very much an amateur. I have some very good SLR's but at this point cant afford a DSLR. However even professionals used point and shoots and even Polaroids to do pre work. Or even to do real work. A better camera can be useful, but the real key is in the eye and mind of the person holding whatever camera. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
The great misnomer. Megapixels is not the whole equation. I have been told there are two other parts of this. Lens quality (glass versus plastic, manufacturer etc.) and CCD. The size and quality of the CCD is almost just as important. The CCD's in phones are small and not very HQ. One of the reasons that Cameras on Cell phones are not up to the job. I have bought no name cameras with a decent megapixel count and gotten lousy pictures. Not clear, don't enlarge well etc. Again the megapixel count is a great selling number but when it comes to quality not the final answer. Stewart At 09:49 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote: Yeah, but how many megapixels does it have? That's all I want to know. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
I believe he was being ironical. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: The great misnomer. Megapixels is not the whole equation. I have been told there are two other parts of this. Lens quality (glass versus plastic, manufacturer etc.) and CCD. The size and quality of the CCD is almost just as important. The CCD's in phones are small and not very HQ. One of the reasons that Cameras on Cell phones are not up to the job. I have bought no name cameras with a decent megapixel count and gotten lousy pictures. Not clear, don't enlarge well etc. Again the megapixel count is a great selling number but when it comes to quality not the final answer. Stewart At 09:49 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote: Yeah, but how many megapixels does it have? That's all I want to know. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
I totally agree--it's the photographer, not the fancy equipment, that makes the picture. Witness, for example, the cult of the Holga, a toy camera from China that comes in a wide variety of colors and retails for around $30. The Holga has quite a following among professional photographers, who win prizes with pictures taken on Holgas. Didn't Ansel Adams once take some amazing shots with a Brownie? I know that his first camera was a Brownie, but I have in my mind that he took some pictures with one much later, presumably to prove this very point. Or maybe it wasn't Adams. Somebody did this, I'm sure. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
The lens--that's the most critical part. You want a manufacturer with a good reputation for glass--reviews are generally available online. Generally, a company that's produced photographic equipment for many years will give you a better shot at getting a decent lens. --Constance On Jan 18, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: The great misnomer. Megapixels is not the whole equation. I have been told there are two other parts of this. Lens quality (glass versus plastic, manufacturer etc.) and CCD. The size and quality of the CCD is almost just as important. The CCD's in phones are small and not very HQ. One of the reasons that Cameras on Cell phones are not up to the job. I have bought no name cameras with a decent megapixel count and gotten lousy pictures. Not clear, don't enlarge well etc. Again the megapixel count is a great selling number but when it comes to quality not the final answer. Stewart At 09:49 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote: Yeah, but how many megapixels does it have? That's all I want to know. Steve ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Zeiss, Kreuznach, Nikkor etc. Stewart At 10:32 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote: The lens--that's the most critical part. You want a manufacturer with a good reputation for glass--reviews are generally available online. Generally, a company that's produced photographic equipment for many years will give you a better shot at getting a decent lens. --Constance On Jan 18, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: The great misnomer. Megapixels is not the whole equation. I have been told there are two other parts of this. Lens quality (glass versus plastic, manufacturer etc.) and CCD. The size and quality of the CCD is almost just as important. The CCD's in phones are small and not very HQ. One of the reasons that Cameras on Cell phones are not up to the job. I have bought no name cameras with a decent megapixel count and gotten lousy pictures. Not clear, don't enlarge well etc. Again the megapixel count is a great selling number but when it comes to quality not the final answer. Stewart At 09:49 AM 1/18/2010, you wrote: Yeah, but how many megapixels does it have? That's all I want to know. Steve ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Not really. Many persons in the music business are experts on the music per se, and not necessarily on computer technology. For example, the person who auditions the classical music groups (whom I talked about in a previous email) was an accomplished orchestra and chamber music musician, with an extensive knowledge of the classical repertoire--and of the administrative and business side of music. I suspect she's typical of people who are managing concert series and hiring musicians. Knowing music, and knowing what's good and bad: that's her job. Also typical: like most musicians, she leaves the business of recording and reproducing music to the recording engineers. That's THEIR job. Musicians can tell if the finished product is good or bad, but the technical side of making a good recording, and putting it in distributable form--that's the responsibility of the recording engineer, the producer, and the manufacturer. It's really unfair to expect expertise in so many fields, from any one person or type of person. E.g. Joshua Bell, whose business is definitely music, gets paid for playing the violin, not for knowing what type of digital file fits best on your computer. It would be nice if he could tell you how all the digital music formats work, and how to get the best sound reproduction on your own setup, but I sure wouldn't expect it. --Constance On Jan 18, 2010, at 10:44 AM, mike wrote: The average comsumer will not...but someone whose business is music should be educated enough to know. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote: And I kind of doubt that the average consumer is going to educate himself/herself on the comparative quality of various types of digital music files, or to become an expert in exactly how to rig output devices to get the best fidelity sound (the way the old hi-fi geeks used to do). He/She is going to download the music in whatever way is quickest and most convenient, and put it on his/her iPod to listen to on the subway or while walking the dog. Which isn't a bad thing; long subway rides are monotonous and boring, and it's nice to have songs piped into your ears to make the ride seem shorter. But, under the circumstances, the sound quality won't be the same as you'd get from a CD. (Which is why I'm going to continue buying them, even though it's an obsolete consumer product.) --Constance Warner ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Dump adobe reader
On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:50 PM, D Freye wrote: I want to dump adobe reader and replace it with a program that NEVER calls home or even asks unless I suggest it. Any ideas? Would it not be better to keep Reader and block its bad habits. These days so many programs phone home that it is a big job to go after them one by one. Why not keep them all under control with a firewall? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Canon 5D Mark II. Gizmodo rates it Officially Awesome. Of course, Gizmodo's not a photography site, but it does look pretty awesome. -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 11:31 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products... Which Canon are you talking about? I've seen a 21 that was less than 2200 for the body. Lenses started at a few hundred... at a cost of $0.00016 per pixel I'll take two. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: That's true, but Canon has ALSO been running a lot of ads for their new DSLR (the one that can shoot HD video). That dude, with lens, will set you back $3,500. Yeah, but how many megapixels does it have? That's all I want to know. Steve Actually, for once, the number of megapixels actually is interesting: it's 21. (That's just $0.00016 per pixel.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
One of the real problems with today's point and shoot cameras is shutter lag -- the time delay between pushing the button and taking the picture. Even if you press half-way and hold, there is still significant shutter delay. This is a real problem if you are trying to take ad hoc (un-posed, spontaneous) pictures. The subject moves during the delay time, and what-you-get is very much _not_ what-you-see. In days of yore (say the 1950's and the Argus C3), shutter delay was very small, because the aperture, speed and focus had been pre-set and were not automatically generated by a sensor. Supposedly (I don't have one to test), the shutter lag is very much less with DSLR cameras than point-and-shoot cameras. If you can get the timing correct, spontaneous pictures are much better than posed pictures. And manual settings, while possible on point-and-shoot digital cameras, are done with menus and buttons, and are slow and tedious to perform, unlike just twisting a knob or the lens barrel to match an index mark, which is quickly and precisely done. Fred Holmes At 09:29 AM 1/18/2010, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I get a kick out of the folks who run around with DSLR's. It is a status symbol or like bling to them, it does not make their picture taking any better. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Fred you will get no argument from me on those issues. But it still is the point how many Point and Click photographers even know or care about those items? Stewart At 12:52 PM 1/18/2010, you wrote: One of the real problems with today's point and shoot cameras is shutter lag -- the time delay between pushing the button and taking the picture. Even if you press half-way and hold, there is still significant shutter delay. This is a real problem if you are trying to take ad hoc (un-posed, spontaneous) pictures. The subject moves during the delay time, and what-you-get is very much _not_ what-you-see. In days of yore (say the 1950's and the Argus C3), shutter delay was very small, because the aperture, speed and focus had been pre-set and were not automatically generated by a sensor. Supposedly (I don't have one to test), the shutter lag is very much less with DSLR cameras than point-and-shoot cameras. If you can get the timing correct, spontaneous pictures are much better than posed pictures. And manual settings, while possible on point-and-shoot digital cameras, are done with menus and buttons, and are slow and tedious to perform, unlike just twisting a knob or the lens barrel to match an index mark, which is quickly and precisely done. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Fred you will get no argument from me on those issues. But it still is the point how many Point and Click photographers even know or care about those items? I think a lot of point--shoot picture takers are very much aware of shutter delay. They may not understand it, or really know what happened, but they do know that they tried to shoot Dale Jr's car as it went by at 190 MPH and were rewarded with a nice picture of an empty speedway. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
I am the worst sort of point-and-click photographer. Sometimes the only camera I have available is my el-cheapo Samsung Glyde. The delay on this thing is longer than the time it took last week's earthquake to destroy Port-au-Prince. Annoying as heck. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Fred you will get no argument from me on those issues. But it still is the point how many Point and Click photographers even know or care about those items? Stewart At 12:52 PM 1/18/2010, you wrote: One of the real problems with today's point and shoot cameras is shutter lag -- the time delay between pushing the button and taking the picture. Even if you press half-way and hold, there is still significant shutter delay etc. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Because they do not know how to take pictures. I have taken my point and click cameras to Bristol and have gotten some nice shots without a hitch. You take pictures of fast moving objects a lot like you fire a gun at them, lead them I get a kick out of the films I see where you have a whole stadium of folks and all these flashes are going off. They have no clue to how a flash works and the limitation of them. I took my point and click with me Christmas night to the TN Titans game (where they got their butt whopped by San Diego) I got some very nice pictures of the stadium without the flash. I have gotten pictures of fireworks without the flash. But I said I am a amateur photographer, not unskilled. Most of these folks simply have no idea what they are doing and putting a DSLR into their hands would be waste of a good camera. Kind of like putting a Porsche into the hands of my 19 year old son. (Dangerous) Stewart At 01:45 PM 1/18/2010, you wrote: I think a lot of point--shoot picture takers are very much aware of shutter delay. They may not understand it, or really know what happened, but they do know that they tried to shoot Dale Jr's car as it went by at 190 MPH and were rewarded with a nice picture of an empty speedway. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Most cameras these days have sensors and will fire the flash if the light level is low. You have to manually defeat the flash if you don't want it. Mike Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Because they do not know how to take pictures. I have taken my point and click cameras to Bristol and have gotten some nice shots without a hitch. You take pictures of fast moving objects a lot like you fire a gun at them, lead them I get a kick out of the films I see where you have a whole stadium of folks and all these flashes are going off. They have no clue to how a flash works and the limitation of them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
I'll argue it. I've only owned two cheap (~$100) digital cameras - a Kodak and a Panasonic and neither had any shutter lag at all. The few earlier cameras that had this problem got a lot of press. Fred you will get no argument from me on those issues. One of the real problems with today's point and shoot cameras is shutter lag -- the time delay between pushing the button and taking the picture. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
How is bluray just a marketing tool? On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:10 PM, betty b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: DVDs CDs - CDs, yes, DVDs no. There's no reliable replacement for DVDs. Over-priced, over-hyped Blu-Ray disks are a marketing tool, not an answer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] digital camera shutter lag
At 04:45 PM 1/18/2010, you wrote: I'll argue it. I've only owned two cheap (~$100) digital cameras - a Kodak and a Panasonic and neither had any shutter lag at all. The few earlier cameras that had this problem got a lot of press. Shutter lag is a problem with my Nikon Coolpix. But I bought it in 2001, so I can't complain too much. I've had much fun with it over the years. Sue * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
I'm not taking pictures of fast moving objects. I'm just trying to take a picture of unposed people at a wedding or some other party or gathering. By the time the shutter fires, good expressions have gone to bad ones, and heads have turned so that the face is no longer at a good angle or even visible. The objects (the people) are still in the picture, as they weren't moving their bodies to a new location, they were just repositioning the parts of their bodies. (a terrible description of the process, but a better one doesn't come quickly to mind.) I had a Ricoh Mirai from the early or mid 80's. 35mm film, but a good zoom lens. It had autofocus, and had the same problem because of the time it took for the autofocus to execute. Fred Holmes At 02:59 PM 1/18/2010, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Because they do not know how to take pictures. I have taken my point and click cameras to Bristol and have gotten some nice shots without a hitch. You take pictures of fast moving objects a lot like you fire a gun at them, lead them I get a kick out of the films I see where you have a whole stadium of folks and all these flashes are going off. They have no clue to how a flash works and the limitation of them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
You can make them do both, flash when it is not necessary and not flash when it is. Easy to regulate. Marcio -Original Message- From: Mike Sloane mikeslo...@verizon.net Sent: Jan 18, 2010 7:42 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products... Most cameras these days have sensors and will fire the flash if the light level is low. You have to manually defeat the flash if you don't want it. Mike Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Because they do not know how to take pictures. I have taken my point and click cameras to Bristol and have gotten some nice shots without a hitch. You take pictures of fast moving objects a lot like you fire a gun at them, lead them I get a kick out of the films I see where you have a whole stadium of folks and all these flashes are going off. They have no clue to how a flash works and the limitation of them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
The Leica C Lux 3 has a Quick Auto Focus that works fine when you need it. I am very happy with it. Marcio -Original Message- From: Fred Holmes f...@his.com Sent: Jan 18, 2010 9:16 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products... I'm not taking pictures of fast moving objects. I'm just trying to take a picture of unposed people at a wedding or some other party or gathering. By the time the shutter fires, good expressions have gone to bad ones, and heads have turned so that the face is no longer at a good angle or even visible. The objects (the people) are still in the picture, as they weren't moving their bodies to a new location, they were just repositioning the parts of their bodies. (a terrible description of the process, but a better one doesn't come quickly to mind.) I had a Ricoh Mirai from the early or mid 80's. 35mm film, but a good zoom lens. It had autofocus, and had the same problem because of the time it took for the autofocus to execute. Fred Holmes At 02:59 PM 1/18/2010, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Because they do not know how to take pictures. I have taken my point and click cameras to Bristol and have gotten some nice shots without a hitch. You take pictures of fast moving objects a lot like you fire a gun at them, lead them I get a kick out of the films I see where you have a whole stadium of folks and all these flashes are going off. They have no clue to how a flash works and the limitation of them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
Wow. When I taught Shakespeare, the required texts (my choice) were five cheap mass-market paperbacks! (But then, you can't hire Shakespeare to write an extra act for King Lear or Macbeth, to make a new and more expensive edition.) Even when I taught speech (not my choice of textbook), the text--a workbook with tear-out pages--was only about 20 bucks (with inflation, that would be around $40 now). --Constance On Jan 18, 2010, at 7:30 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: My sons undergraduate basic textbooks are all selling for over 100 each and the Western Civ book was about 130. He has taken remedial math twice so far and each time required a new book. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Obsolete consumer products...
The great classes are the ones that require you to buy the book the teacher wrote himself. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Constance Warner cawar...@his.com wrote: Wow. When I taught Shakespeare, the required texts (my choice) were five cheap mass-market paperbacks! (But then, you can't hire Shakespeare to write an extra act for King Lear or Macbeth, to make a new and more expensive edition.) Even when I taught speech (not my choice of textbook), the text--a workbook with tear-out pages--was only about 20 bucks (with inflation, that would be around $40 now). --Constance On Jan 18, 2010, at 7:30 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: My sons undergraduate basic textbooks are all selling for over 100 each and the Western Civ book was about 130. He has taken remedial math twice so far and each time required a new book. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
