Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/DSL...]
At 05:43 PM 2/26/2009, Tony B wrote: Let's not confuse the issue. Gas heaters use pilot lights, and the thermocouple in the flame generates enough micro voltage to run the thermostat. Again, an outside source of electricity would only be required to run any fans. But the units will heat a house with no electricity at all. Interesting. I had always assumed that the thermocouple was just a safety device to shut off the gas to the pilot light if the pilot light became extinguished. I hope the next time that I need a new water heater, they still make them that run without any connection to household electricity, i.e., you still have hot water for a shower even if the electricity has gone off in a storm (or some idiot hitting a pole). Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/
We have two propane heaters--no electricity, no natural gas lines. Glow-Warm 18,000 BTU, Comfort Glow 15,000 BTU. Can be vented or unvented. Ours are unvented since they're so small and low-power. Doesn't unvented fill the house with noxious fumes? I have read that even cooking with gas has been known to cause problems. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters
No. Even if there's a malfunction, the pilot lights are cleverly designed so that if the oxygen levels in the room lower, they go out. But normally gas burns pretty much completely, only leaving a bit of moisture in the air. It's said that after many, many years you can detect a darkening in a room from unvented gas. But by then most people would have painted and replaced furniture anyway. This thread is bouncing all over the place though, straying from units that require no electricity at all to those that require some. e.g. Any unit without a pilot light will obviously require power (or mechanical assist) to ignite. All pellet stoves require power for the feed mechanism to operate. I think what threw us is when Betty said she has week long power failures all the time, and she doesn't want a whole house generator, so she just hunkers down and toughs it out in her solar house. That's such a rare combination of circumstances in the U.S. it's left us all confused. On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: We have two propane heaters--no electricity, no natural gas lines. Glow-Warm 18,000 BTU, Comfort Glow 15,000 BTU. Can be vented or unvented. Ours are unvented since they're so small and low-power. Doesn't unvented fill the house with noxious fumes? I have read that even cooking with gas has been known to cause problems. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters
I am not sure where Betty lives, but if a Tornado or Hurricane comes through this area, we can all end up going a week or maybe less without power. During the summer it is just stifling. If I could afford Solar I would do it, it just makes sense down here. But I do have a gas water heater so hot water is readily available, plus camp stoves and propane grill. Stewart At 09:42 AM 2/27/2009, you wrote: No. Even if there's a malfunction, the pilot lights are cleverly designed so that if the oxygen levels in the room lower, they go out. But normally gas burns pretty much completely, only leaving a bit of moisture in the air. It's said that after many, many years you can detect a darkening in a room from unvented gas. But by then most people would have painted and replaced furniture anyway. This thread is bouncing all over the place though, straying from units that require no electricity at all to those that require some. e.g. Any unit without a pilot light will obviously require power (or mechanical assist) to ignite. All pellet stoves require power for the feed mechanism to operate. I think what threw us is when Betty said she has week long power failures all the time, and she doesn't want a whole house generator, so she just hunkers down and toughs it out in her solar house. That's such a rare combination of circumstances in the U.S. it's left us all confused. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/
We have two propane heaters--no electricity, no natural gas lines. Glow-Warm 18,000 BTU, Comfort Glow 15,000 BTU. Can be vented or unvented. Ours are unvented since they're so small and low-power. Doesn't unvented fill the house with noxious fumes? I have read that even cooking with gas has been known to cause problems. It hasn't been a problem. You could use air-to-air heat exchangers to change the air frequently, but our house isn't officially superinsulated. These are blue flame heaters that are 99.9% efficient. The byproduct is primarily water vapor. As long as the tank is outside and doesn't leak inside, it's fine. The greenhouse leaks enough fresh air into the house most of the winter through the cat door and roof vents. Our heaters are very small and aren't used more than a few hours a day [haven't used them since Tuesday], only on low and sometimes medium heat [500/600 BTU each]. Most houses around the same size would require 10 times more BTUs than ours [max for unvented is 40,000 BTU]. There's a low-oxygen monitor that turns the heater off automatically. The supplier adds a noxious odor to the odorless propane so customers can smell a leak and shut down the heaters. We turn off the pilot and valve when we're away; if the propane leaks when you're away, your house could explode, but you'd notice a leak when you're at home by the scent. For a typical American house, you'd need vented propane or natural gas heat, not unvented. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/
Years ago a friend put one of the ventless heaters in a small trailer she was renting. When she got home on a cold winter day, everything was soaked inside from the water vapor. Obviously, it wasn't a good fit for that type of installation. Richard P. On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:00 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: We have two propane heaters--no electricity, no natural gas lines. Glow-Warm 18,000 BTU, Comfort Glow 15,000 BTU. Can be vented or unvented. Ours are unvented since they're so small and low-power. Doesn't unvented fill the house with noxious fumes? I have read that even cooking with gas has been known to cause problems. It hasn't been a problem. You could use air-to-air heat exchangers to change the air frequently, but our house isn't officially superinsulated. These are blue flame heaters that are 99.9% efficient. The byproduct is primarily water vapor. As long as the tank is outside and doesn't leak inside, it's fine. The greenhouse leaks enough fresh air into the house most of the winter through the cat door and roof vents. Our heaters are very small and aren't used more than a few hours a day [haven't used them since Tuesday], only on low and sometimes medium heat [500/600 BTU each]. Most houses around the same size would require 10 times more BTUs than ours [max for unvented is 40,000 BTU]. There's a low-oxygen monitor that turns the heater off automatically. The supplier adds a noxious odor to the odorless propane so customers can smell a leak and shut down the heaters. We turn off the pilot and valve when we're away; if the propane leaks when you're away, your house could explode, but you'd notice a leak when you're at home by the scent. For a typical American house, you'd need vented propane or natural gas heat, not unvented. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/DSL...]
passive gas heaters Tell us more. I Googled the term and got just 1 hit (in French). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/DSL...]
Heh. That *is* an odd phraseology - sounds like a medical device. :) http://www.fireplacesandwoodstoves.com/indoor-fireplaces/propane-fireplaces.aspx Gas heaters generally take either propane or natural gas, and require no electricity to heat. Some units have a fan, but it's not really necessary. On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: passive gas heaters Tell us more. I Googled the term and got just 1 hit (in French). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/DSL...]
Depends on what they use to ignite the gas and to control it. In the old days it was lit with a match... more recently, like your electrically ignited gas stoves, it is often electricity... but unlike gas stove, heaters have thermocouples which may require electricity ... and sometimes a thermostat can powered by electricity also... Probably not so much with small portable devices but certainly can be an issue with bigger systems. db Tony B wrote: Heh. That *is* an odd phraseology - sounds like a medical device. :) http://www.fireplacesandwoodstoves.com/indoor-fireplaces/propane-fireplaces.aspx Gas heaters generally take either propane or natural gas, and require no electricity to heat. Some units have a fan, but it's not really necessary. On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: passive gas heaters Tell us more. I Googled the term and got just 1 hit (in French). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/DSL...]
Let's not confuse the issue. Gas heaters use pilot lights, and the thermocouple in the flame generates enough micro voltage to run the thermostat. Again, an outside source of electricity would only be required to run any fans. But the units will heat a house with no electricity at all. Or, if you want to expand the discussion, electricity is needed to run the feed on pellet stoves. Battery backup required. On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 5:24 PM, db db...@att.net wrote: Depends on what they use to ignite the gas and to control it. In the old days it was lit with a match... more recently, like your electrically ignited gas stoves, it is often electricity... but unlike gas stove, heaters have thermocouples which may require electricity ... and sometimes a thermostat can powered by electricity also... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/
Depends on what they use to ignite the gas and to control it. Could it use a catalytic process that does not require an igniter? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/DSL...]
Not anymore. Many of them have gone to a pilotless ignition system. (Including gas stoves) You need electricity to run the fan, and also the thermostat. Unless you are talking about gas space heaters. Stewart At 04:43 PM 2/26/2009, you wrote: Let's not confuse the issue. Gas heaters use pilot lights, and the thermocouple in the flame generates enough micro voltage to run the thermostat. Again, an outside source of electricity would only be required to run any fans. But the units will heat a house with no electricity at all. Or, if you want to expand the discussion, electricity is needed to run the feed on pellet stoves. Battery backup required. On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 5:24 PM, db db...@att.net wrote: Depends on what they use to ignite the gas and to control it. In the old days it was lit with a match... more recently, like your electrically ignited gas stoves, it is often electricity... but unlike gas stove, heaters have thermocouples which may require electricity ... and sometimes a thermostat can powered by electricity also... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/DSL...]
The point I was trying to make is while the models you speak of require no electricity, people should be aware there are some which do. and for more than the fan. db. Richard P. wrote: The term is one I heard to indicate an ability to have a gas heater be able to run without an outside source of electricity. Don't know if the terminology is accurate. Lopi gas stoves makes a great one: http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/gas_stoves.aspx The pilot light is lit by an onboard sparking device and then is kept open by an electric-generating thermocouple. While there is a blower fan to help distribute the heat, it isn't necessary to produce keep the fire on. They are very efficient because they only burn outside air so none of the inside room air is lost through a chimney. The added bonus is that these models actually look like a wood fire burning due to some very creative rockwool placements. Richard P. passive gas heaters Tell us more. I Googled the term and got just 1 hit (in French). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] passive gas heaters [Was: DSL answering machines/DSL...]
passive gas heaters Tell us more. I Googled the term and got just 1 hit (in French). We have two propane heaters--no electricity, no natural gas lines. Glow-Warm 18,000 BTU, Comfort Glow 15,000 BTU. Can be vented or unvented. Ours are unvented since they're so small and low-power. Both have a mechanical spark or pilot can be lit with a match. No fan needed, but we have ceiling fans that blow upward in the winter [heating] and downward in the summer [cooling]. http://www.comfortheaters.com/ http://www.gwheaters.com/ You could also use a wood, pellet or corn-burning stove without electricity, a hurricane lantern, and a windup radio, cell phone charger, laptop. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
