In Canada private insurance is still alive and well.
The Canadian (administered by each province) health plans are basic only.
Doctors, Hospital and labs. Want a private room, get extra
insurance. Need crutches, get extra insurance. Need a prescription,
get extra insurance.
When I was up
Single payer still offers many different choices.
We already have rationing, it is done by insurance companies who want
to make a profit off of your health and illness.
Stewart
At 10:34 PM 7/26/2009, you wrote:
Absolutely wrong. There must always be choices. The customer must
always have
That's a talking point, right? Didn't someone just publish several
pages of those to use when responding to the mobs? Social media
exploited in the Islamic Republic of Iran. Here to similarly by all
parties moving forward, not just the Progressives? Interesting.
btw, OS choices are also
No it is true.
Go to your doctor and usually he will give you options on what he can do.
Occasionally the insurance company will come back and say we will not
cover options b c or d. It also tells me which doctors and hospitals
I can use. I pay extra costs to use ones out of network.
My
Do a google search for 'complete lives system' (no quotes please you bing
users), see what the big O's health care advisor believes. There are two or
three in his admin who believe such things. If you believe in it, shiny, if
not, it's a little scary.
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Rev.
On Jul 28, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote:
Armies and delivery of First Class Mail are two examples. Single-
payer would be another, and, from your response, one of which you
approve.
OK. I'm up for closing down the Army and the Post Office. All we
really need to do is revisit
On Jul 28, 2009, at 10:36 PM, Andy Gallant wrote:
I strongly object to paragraphs five and seven of your posting, and
in particular, to your use of highly objectionable terms and
comparisons.
However it is worth noting that the cons/neocons have rolled out that
boogeyman too...
In a
On Jul 28, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Constance Warner wrote:
If you need medical care and don't have really good insurance, you
are in BIG trouble.
Too many of us rely on magical thinking, believing that we will never
get seriously sick, will never age, and will die suddenly in a bungee
jumping
I hardly think of either of these two as monopolies. The post office
not only has competition from the internet, but also DHL, Fed-ex, UPS,
etc. The Armies have competition from all the groups such as
Blackwater, etc. Sure these companies aren't as big as the government
branded like, but
Andy Gallant wrote:
I strongly object to paragraphs five and seven of your posting, and in
particular, to your use of highly objectionable terms and comparisons.
Radical right Obama hate media can't resist such disgusting crap.
That will happen when people start thinking for themselves and seeing
through corporate propaganda enough to vote for representatives who will
work for us not corporations. Why is our health care [insurance] system
so bad? How did we get the DMCA? How did the Supreme Court get stacked
with
This non-radical right Obama disagreer agrees with you. For those of you
not aware of Godwin's Law,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Part of the entry states:
For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet
discussion forums that once such a comparison is
I haven't been following this thread, but yes, if someone has actually
mentioned Nazis, let's let it die already.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Steve at Verizonstevet...@verizon.net wrote:
This non-radical right Obama disagreer agrees with you. For those of you not
aware of Godwin's Law,
Indeed, there are other words also that the left likes to toss around like
racist and homophobe. These show you the conversation is over also.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.netwrote:
This non-radical right Obama disagreer agrees with you. For those of you
Sue in a vast majority of cases they do pay taxes.
I do not know of any employer here in America (legitimate) who does
not withhold taxes out of paychecks, unless they consider the
worker a contractor.
My point exactly. If they are not citizens, they should not pay
taxes. Nor should they
Obama's health reform is an exact copy of Hitler's t-4 program where
he stated that lives not worth of life should be given a mercy death.
There is a very nice pamphlet which explains this more fully at
http://www.larouchepac.com/files/media/Act_NowPOST.pdf so download
that.
No Nazi health
Were these larouchies upset because obama's plan isn't left enough?
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:03 AM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote:
Obama's health reform is an exact copy of Hitler's t-4 program where
he stated that lives not worth of life should be given a mercy death.
There is a very
Rev. Stewart Marshall
Talk about rationing.
When I hear those commercials that rail against
rationing, I wonder which insurance company paid
for it, and if the CEO has the same coverage that
all his employees are offered.
I think the congress critters must be made to
live under the same
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:20 PM, b_s-wilkb1sun...@yahoo.es wrote:
Single-payer did NOT prevent you from getting the care you need. Managed
care did. Be informed and you can be better served.
When I hear all the railing against a single-payer system, with the
attendant calls for maintaining a
I am sure there are billions of reasons. ($$)
Stewart
At 06:08 AM 7/28/2009, you wrote:
When I hear all the railing against a single-payer system, with the
attendant calls for maintaining a system in the United States that is
singular in the developed world, I wonder why ours has to
phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:20 PM, b_s-wilkb1sun...@yahoo.es wrote:
Single-payer did NOT prevent you from getting the care you need. Managed
care did. Be informed and you can be better served.
When I hear all the railing against a single-payer system, with
The people in the rest of the world don't change their health care system
because they are sheep.
Ours is the best health care system in the world. Not perfect -- but we can't
afford a perfect system. The U.S. does better than most other countries in
most things. Many people come to the
We aren't digging in our heels to keep it as it is. The Republicans tried to
make all sorts of changes to the health care system in the previous
administration, all of which were filibustered or defeated by Democrats playing
knee-jerk opposition to everything the Republicans did.
Fred Holmes
Not tainted by any facts?
1. The other countries we are talking about are democracies, so they can
vote to change, and no other country tries to replicate the US
healthcare system.
2. Few of us can afford our current system. Fewer still will be able to
as it gets more expensive.
3. Life
On Jul 28, 2009, at 7:08 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
Why uniquely American, which is the term I keep hearing?
That is a code word to assure insurance execs that they will still be
able to get their $100,000,000 salaries.
Just imagine how much money could be saved by merely sending a
On Jul 28, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote:
5. Socialism? WTF; can't you do any better than that?
Curiously, the same people who rail against fixing healthcare with
weird tales of single payer systems will happily support the single-
provider system when it comes to
On Jul 26, 2009, at 11:34 PM, Fred Holmes wrote:
Absolutely wrong. There must always be choices. The customer must
always have somewhere else to go when the service he is currently
receiving is unsatisfactory. Single payer is tyranny.
Single-payer systems typically include the
For one who constantly rails against the MS monopoly, I am surprised
that you advocate a monopoly on the buying side of health care (and a
government monopoly at that).
TPiwowar wrote:
On Jul 26, 2009, at 11:34 PM, Fred Holmes wrote:
Absolutely wrong. There must always be choices. The
I heard recently that the UK is banning certain drugs. In an environment
such as that, who will create the wonder drugs of the future?
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 8:09 AM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
On Jul 26, 2009, at 11:34 PM, Fred Holmes wrote:
Absolutely wrong. There must always be
Who is advocating that and what exactly does it mean?
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 8:02 AM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
Curiously, the same people who rail against fixing healthcare with weird
tales of single payer systems will happily support the single-provider
system when it comes to
: 07/28/2009 11:10 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Healthcare
On Jul 26, 2009, at 11:34 PM, Fred Holmes wrote:
Absolutely wrong. There must always be choices. The customer must
always have somewhere else to go when the service he is currently
receiving
11:10 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Healthcare
On Jul 26, 2009, at 11:34 PM, Fred Holmes wrote:
Absolutely wrong. There must always be choices. The customer must
always have somewhere else to go when the service he is currently
receiving is unsatisfactory
1. What Congress has: in point of fact, congresspersons and senators
have the same choices of insurance that all federal employees have.
My guess is that they mostly choose standard-option Blue Cross-Blue
Shield--a popular choice among all federal employees. There is also
a
- we
are YOUR adjuvancy
-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com]
On Behalf Of mike
Sent: 07/28/2009 12:03 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Healthcare
I've wondered something along these lines...why are we
The people in the rest of the world don't change their health care
system because they are sheep.
Ours is the best health care system in the world. Not perfect -- but
we can't afford a perfect system. The U.S. does better than most
other countries in most things. Many people come to the
On Jul 28, 2009, at 11:39 AM, mike wrote:
I heard recently that the UK is banning certain drugs. In an
environment
such as that, who will create the wonder drugs of the future?
And our FDA approves bunches of drugs that kill the patient. You
prefer that?
On Jul 28, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Steve at Verizon wrote:
For one who constantly rails against the MS monopoly, I am
surprised that you advocate a monopoly on the buying side of health
care (and a government monopoly at that).
The government is not a monopoly. The government is the American
And when will that happen? It's not going to happen under the current
administration. Unless we dump every member of congress and the senate and
stop putting up with these idiots getting rich on our backs, nothing is
going to change except for the worse.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:41 AM,
Right, your game playing continues no matter the subject.
meh.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:53 AM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
On Jul 28, 2009, at 11:39 AM, mike wrote:
I heard recently that the UK is banning certain drugs. In an environment
such as that, who will create the wonder drugs
We do not as much ban drugs, What we do is allow the drug companies
and our insurance to ban them for us.
Very often they just price the drug out of the market.
I am not sure how many of you know this but over the past few years a
number of readily available generic drugs have disappeared off
TPiwowar wrote:
On Jul 26, 2009, at 11:34 PM, Fred Holmes wrote:
Absolutely wrong. There must always be choices. The customer must
always have somewhere else to go when the service he is currently
receiving is unsatisfactory. Single payer is tyranny.
Single-payer systems typically include
It's not a monopoly ... just the opposite ... we have a defacto monopoly
now.
People who can't afford corporate type plans have nothing and run
EVERYONE's bill thru the roof when they end up in emergency rooms or
terminally dying etc.
I think what most in the national argument want ... except
to profits, from tax to investments- we
are YOUR adjuvancy
-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:
computerguy...@listserv.aol.com]
On Behalf Of TPiwowar
Sent: 07/28/2009 11:10 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Healthcare
On Jul 26, 2009, at 11:34
OHIP (Ontario health Insurance Plan) which is one of those government
plans in Canada is not really much more than basic health insurance.
When I lived up there I bought a supplement that would give me a few
benefits, such as a prescription plan, semi-private room,
prosthetics, and some
I just want to say thanks to the powers that be on this list for
allowing this discussion. How I ended up with having nearly all
conservative friends is beyond me! Admittedly, I have not gone
searching the web for health care discussions, but it is very
refreshing to know that there are
Sue in a vast majority of cases they do pay taxes.
I do not know of any employer here in America (legitimate) who does
not withhold taxes out of paychecks, unless they consider the worker
a contractor.
Many (A good number) of south of the border people work in the food
industry (Mainly
At 04:49 PM 7/28/2009 -0500, you wrote:
Sue in a vast majority of cases they do pay taxes.
I do not know of any employer here in America (legitimate) who does
not withhold taxes out of paychecks, unless they consider the worker
a contractor.
Many (A good number) of south of the border
I didn't say the government is a monopoly; I said that a single-payer is
a monopoly. Actually there is a new term for a buyer monopoly and that
is a monopsony.
The federal government can and has exerted monopoly powers.
Armies and delivery of First Class Mail are two examples. Single-payer
Hi Kate -
Health care has become such a heated topic that it has even
taken over my computer talk group (see below) .
I've told you about our experience with health care in
England . France seems to have the best system in the world (but
you know that the French are
I strongly object to paragraphs five and seven of your posting, and in
particular, to your use of highly objectionable terms and comparisons.
-Andy Gallant
John covici wrote:
To fix the health care system, you need to do three simple things:
(1) Repeal the 1973 legislation legalizing hmos.
@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: [CGUYS] Healthcare
I hope your mother has recovered well.
Ten years ago I joined the PA Farm Bureau so I could get group rate Blue
Cross through them. I don't recall exactly, but the cost then was about
$350 per quarter, per person. Three or four years later it had gone
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 3:13 AM, dbdb...@att.net wrote:
Incremental is good. If a legitimate public insurance alternative is now
established so there is real choice, the public will follow with their
pocketbooks as the system begins to work and show its stuff and hospitably
accept them. So
Single-payer systems work very well for those who are not sick.
I have two rare diseases. In the US, my insurance paid over $300k in
treatments (no hospitalizations). In Ontario, I would only be eligible for
one of my three main treatments. And in the UK, NICE has decided not to put
anyone
Ellen Rains Harris el...@goodshiptabasco.com escribió:
Single-payer systems work very well for those who are not sick.
You are another person who is confusing single-payer with managed care.
There is no direct correlation; depends on the system. Single payer only
refers to administration
Talk about rationing.
When I hear those commercials that rail against
rationing, I wonder which insurance company paid
for it, and if the CEO has the same coverage that
all his employees are offered.
I think the congress critters must be made to
live under the same rules that they set for
I hope your mother has recovered well.
Ten years ago I joined the PA Farm Bureau so I could get group rate Blue
Cross through them. I don't recall exactly, but the cost then was about
$350 per quarter, per person. Three or four years later it had gone to
$1000 per month for my wife and I.
@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: [CGUYS] Healthcare
I hope your mother has recovered well.
Ten years ago I joined the PA Farm Bureau so I could get group rate Blue
Cross through them. I don't recall exactly, but the cost then was about
$350 per quarter, per person. Three or four years later it had gone
Absolutely wrong. There must always be choices. The customer must always have
somewhere else to go when the service he is currently receiving is
unsatisfactory. Single payer is tyranny.
And the customer (patient) must always have the right to seek medical care (and
the provider have the
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