Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:59 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: I also have noted in those MS ads that the buyers are making their decisions solely predicated upon two factors: The cheaper cost and the advice of Best Buy salespersons. Would anyone on this list rely upon those two criteria when making their computer purchasing decisions? Most likely not because we are probably a lot more savvy that the folks depicted in those ads. I think we all know to whom those ads are targeted. I would not use a term like savvy to describe our WFBs. Their loyalties are more like to a political party. They never see anything wrong with anything M$ shoves out. All their software -- even Vista -- is double plus good. They love the Zune and those crummy WINCE phones. I was recently derided by them for listing some sour OS releases from Apple. In their world there is never such a thing. Everything M$ does and sells is only to be praised. That is hardly the definition of savvy. If one of them told me the time of day, I would check my watch. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
Where do you meet these people? On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:05 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:59 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: I also have noted in those MS ads that the buyers are making their decisions solely predicated upon two factors: The cheaper cost and the advice of Best Buy salespersons. Would anyone on this list rely upon those two criteria when making their computer purchasing decisions? Most likely not because we are probably a lot more savvy that the folks depicted in those ads. I think we all know to whom those ads are targeted. I would not use a term like savvy to describe our WFBs. Their loyalties are more like to a political party. They never see anything wrong with anything M$ shoves out. All their software -- even Vista -- is double plus good. They love the Zune and those crummy WINCE phones. I was recently derided by them for listing some sour OS releases from Apple. In their world there is never such a thing. Everything M$ does and sells is only to be praised. That is hardly the definition of savvy. If one of them told me the time of day, I would check my watch. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:11 AM, mikexha...@gmail.com wrote: Where do you meet these people? I don't know where Tom meets these people, but I meet them all the time. However, my experiences with folks who are completely wedded to Windows seems to be different from what Tom is saying. The folks I meet and speak with about computers are almost exclusively Windows users, but generally not computer experts by any measure. They are mainly business owners, people who work in small businesses where Windows is the OS of either choice or perceived necessity, or just individuals who use their own computers for personal use. Most of these folks have numerous computer related issues that they fairly often have to address. First off, they will try to fix the problems themselves, usually failing in those endeavors. Then they have to call in the Geek Squad and be prepared to spend a couple or three hundred bucks. I will usually hear them complain about how their computer just suddenly started running very slowly or freezes up all the time or how this or that no longer works. However, as much as they might complain about their balky machines, they think that they have no choice but to keep using Windows and keep putting up with the problems they encounter. Are these problems of their own making? Maybe so, but I have no way of knowing and neither do they. Do Mac users have some similar problems? Sure they do, but apparently not nearly to the same extent. Why does that seem to be so? I dunno for sure, but it may often have something to do with the prevalence of viruses, spyware, bots and other assorted afflictions that plague Windows. Maybe the Mac internal hardware is better as well. I also think that the cheap initial cost of Windows machines is attractive to computer neophytes, and these inexperienced and often unthinking new users are prone to doing stupid things that get them into trouble. I somehow have the suspicion that an awful lot of folks who buy Macs are typically a bit more computer smart and experienced, maybe even more mature in their thinking processes even if they are relatively young in age. I'll probably get clobbered now, but hey, that's what I think. Yes, I know that many Windows users HAVE TO use Windows based machines because of work requirements, but those are not the individuals I am talking about here. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
This is called battered spouse syndrome. It needs intervention and possibly arrest of the guilty party. On Jun 10, 2009, at 1:07 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: However, as much as they might complain about their balky machines, they think that they have no choice but to keep using Windows and keep putting up with the problems they encounter. Are these problems of their own making? Maybe so, but I have no way of knowing and neither do they. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
I think they refer to you as target audience. On Jun 10, 2009, at 11:11 AM, mike wrote: Where do you meet these people? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
Yes, savvy buyers will get Macs, but there is also a very large group of people who know little about computers. These are graphic artists. They typically point to their computer and call them the hard drive. (I have never been able to understand the consistency with which they use the term hard drive but they all seem to say the same thing.) They get absolutely paralyzed when things go wrong. That's why they get Macs. Things rarely go wrong. On Jun 10, 2009, at 1:07 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: I somehow have the suspicion that an awful lot of folks who buy Macs are typically a bit more computer smart and experienced, maybe even more mature in their thinking processes even if they are relatively young in age. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
I too meet them, Steve. My company is large and has a large IT group. They install all of the patches and probably over 95+% of all software installs. Each OS installation is configured from a company-standard image. None of the managers and few of the technical staff are able to do anything except call the IT group. I don't meet many people who are curious about any of this; it seems to be day and night: a few of us can and almost everyone else cannot do much more than run application software that resides on their C drive. These folks think they can have a similar experience on a Windows computer at home, but, of course, there is no one at home who knows how to administer it. The people I meet in the IT support group appear to be the largest group of Mac OS and Linux users on their home computers (especially since dual-boot has matured). Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:11 AM, mikexha...@gmail.com wrote: Where do you meet these people? I don't know where Tom meets these people, but I meet them all the time. However, my experiences with folks who are completely wedded to Windows seems to be different from what Tom is saying. The folks I meet and speak with about computers are almost exclusively Windows users, but generally not computer experts by any measure. They are mainly business owners, people who work in small businesses where Windows is the OS of either choice or perceived necessity, or just individuals who use their own computers for personal use. Most of these folks have numerous computer related issues that they fairly often have to address. First off, they will try to fix the problems themselves, usually failing in those endeavors. Then they have to call in the Geek Squad and be prepared to spend a couple or three hundred bucks. I will usually hear them complain about how their computer just suddenly started running very slowly or freezes up all the time or how this or that no longer works. However, as much as they might complain about their balky machines, they think that they have no choice but to keep using Windows and keep putting up with the problems they encounter. Are these problems of their own making? Maybe so, but I have no way of knowing and neither do they. Do Mac users have some similar problems? Sure they do, but apparently not nearly to the same extent. Why does that seem to be so? I dunno for sure, but it may often have something to do with the prevalence of viruses, spyware, bots and other assorted afflictions that plague Windows. Maybe the Mac internal hardware is better as well. I also think that the cheap initial cost of Windows machines is attractive to computer neophytes, and these inexperienced and often unthinking new users are prone to doing stupid things that get them into trouble. I somehow have the suspicion that an awful lot of folks who buy Macs are typically a bit more computer smart and experienced, maybe even more mature in their thinking processes even if they are relatively young in age. I'll probably get clobbered now, but hey, that's what I think. Yes, I know that many Windows users HAVE TO use Windows based machines because of work requirements, but those are not the individuals I am talking about here. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
Steve, I just wanted to say that I think your comments have been spot on! Steve B phartz...@gmail.com wrote: I'll probably get clobbered now, but hey, that's what I think. Yes, I know that many Windows users HAVE TO use Windows based machines because of work requirements, but those are not the individuals I am talking about here. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
I would not use a term like savvy to describe our WFBs. Their loyalties are more like to a political party. They never see anything wrong with anything M$ shoves out. All their software -- even Vista -- is double plus good. They love the Zune and those crummy WINCE phones. I was recently derided by them for listing some sour OS releases from Apple. In their world there is never such a thing. Everything M$ does and sells is only to be praised. That is hardly the definition of savvy. If one of them told me the time of day, I would check my watch. Don't be ridiculous, Tom. You'd never stoop to ask me the time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
I'll probably get clobbered now, but hey, that's what I think. Yes, I know that many Windows users HAVE TO use Windows based machines because of work requirements, but those are not the individuals I am talking about here. The smug arrogance and asshattery displayed regularly by a substantial number of Mac owners says more about them as a group than anything Windows owners could ever possibly do. I know not all of them are like that, I personally know several Mac owners who are quite normal and tolerable in that regard, it's just a computer to them (their lives are fulfilled in more substantial ways), but I would be ashamed to be associated with the Kool-Aid guzzlers if I were in that position. A good excommunication would be in order. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_ad_campaign_cleans_apples_clock The odd thing is that the Ad Age article that ComputerWorld references appears to have disappeared. All the links to it, including the ones on Ad Age's own site, come up with item not found. Maybe it's just a web site error. Or maybe not. BTW, on a different ad campaign: whether or not Bing is any good (my experience: sometimes it is, sometimes not so much), I thought that the first MS Bing ad was really well done. The look of incomprehension on peoples' faces as their companions launched into vaguely related yet totally irrelevant topics was priceless. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
On Jun 9, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: http://blogs.computerworld.com/ microsoft_ad_campaign_cleans_apples_clock The odd thing is that the Ad Age article that ComputerWorld references appears to have disappeared. All the links to it, including the ones on Ad Age's own site, come up with item not found. Maybe it's just a web site error. Or maybe not. The links are dead because this is no longer current content. Note that this poll was limited to young adults who: 1) Will have the least money to spend 2) Are most easily mislead by advertising So the headline is M$ Favored by the Broke and Dumb Look at some of the other news this WFB has written... Mac OS X Java fiasco: Apple still doesn't get security How much does the Apple Tax really cost? Finally! Say good-bye to Apple fanboys * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
The links are dead because this is no longer current content. You just love to make stuff up, don't you? It turns out that the Ad Age piece is still there (and very current), but you have to pay to read it. All you can see without payment is part of the first paragraph: NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- Apple may have some of the most interesting online ads we've seen in a while, but Microsoft's recent push to paint the competitor as pricey is starting to work, according to data from BrandIndex. ... So, your statement about it being no longer current content is flat wrong, and sounds very much made up to me. Note that this poll was limited to young adults ... Also known as the demographic advertisers covet. Apple's target demo. Mac guy looks like a young adult to me. Mac ads are laser-targeted at young adults. Look at some of the other news this WFB has written... Uh, the WFB didn't do the study, did he? And from what we can see, his writeup looks pretty durn accurate, wouldn't you say? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
On Jun 9, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: You just love to make stuff up, don't you? It turns out that the Ad Age piece is still there (and very current), but you have to pay to read it. All you can see without payment is part of the first paragraph: So, your statement about it being no longer current content is flat wrong, and sounds very much made up to me. You are a very bizarre person. A troll just waiting to pounce on every little thing. My experience with the Ad Age site is that current content is for the most part available from their front page or external links without subscription. I have read many interesting stories this way. After a short while this free access lapses. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
On Jun 9, 2009, at 7:28 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: To the best of my knowledge, Apple computers have always been seen as pricey. Nothing ground breaking about that. I have been hearing complaints about the cost of Apple machines for years, and also know it to be a fact. How do I know? Because I buy them. Pricey at first, but from all I have witnessed and heard, less costly and less of a hassle in the long run. Those who are bad at calculating TCO get to pay the PC tax. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Chris Dunfordseed...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, but the point of the article was the rather startling turnaround in the perception of the MS and Apple brands in the 18-34 demo. Since late winter, Apple's rating has dropped from 70 to 12, and MS's has increased from 0 to 46 (100 means all positive feedback, -100 means all negative, 0 means about even). In other words, in late winter, Apple was ahead 70-0. Now, MS is ahead 46-12. So, what does all of that actually mean? Does it mean that advertisers know how to manipulate younger consumers? Didn't those consumers within that demographic group already know that Apple computers are more expensive than most Windows machines? The ads certaily appear to imply such. Additionally, we are only talking about initial retail price, right? I also have noted in those MS ads that the buyers are making their decisions solely predicated upon two factors: The cheaper cost and the advice of Best Buy salespersons. Would anyone on this list rely upon those two criteria when making their computer purchasing decisions? Most likely not because we are probably a lot more savvy that the folks depicted in those ads. I think we all know to whom those ads are targeted. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
Now, MS is ahead 46-12. So, what does all of that actually mean? All it means is that the advertising campaigns appear to have been effective, which is all that I said it meant. There was considerable talk here that MS's ads were no good, but it seems that they were. No big deal. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New MS ads not so ineffective after all?
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Chris Dunfordseed...@gmail.com wrote: All it means is that the advertising campaigns appear to have been effective, which is all that I said it meant. There was considerable talk here that MS's ads were no good, but it seems that they were. No big deal. The ads were good at showing that folks who have little or no computing experience and who want a cheap computer, the main point of the ads, and are willing to place their entire confidence in the hands of a big box store salesperson, the secondary point of the ads, will likely end up getting a Windows machine. For those who shop in that manner, the ads will work. Ads on TV for soon to be released movies also work, and those films that are thus exposed to the (primarily youthful) public ALWAYS lead the list of the highest grossing movies in the immediate aftermath. Most of those films suck eggs, but that is not what matters, is it? I am not equating Windows machines with egg sucking movies, but I am saying that advertising is advertising, movies are movies and computers are computers. In the case of either movies or computers, the quality of and satisfaction with the product does not necessarily parallel the hype and results of the advertising. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
