Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 10:44 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: I think the point is, you in good faith called and tried to fix the situation, they in turn have been screwing around. This reminds me of that problem when a student finds a teacher grades their paper wrong in the students favor. Most my teachers said, if it happens, don't tell me. I had a teacher miss count my test in my favor once. My buddy who sat in front of told the teacher of his mistake and the teacher took the point from my buddy for being a butiniski. All in all a positive outcome. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Well with friends like these.. On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:05 PM, John Duncan Yoyo johnduncany...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 10:44 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: I think the point is, you in good faith called and tried to fix the situation, they in turn have been screwing around. This reminds me of that problem when a student finds a teacher grades their paper wrong in the students favor. Most my teachers said, if it happens, don't tell me. I had a teacher miss count my test in my favor once. My buddy who sat in front of told the teacher of his mistake and the teacher took the point from my buddy for being a butiniski. All in all a positive outcome. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Mike is right. Their screw-up, not yours. Let them jump through hoops, if they are willing to, to get their more expensive computer back. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I think the point is, you in good faith called and tried to fix the situation, they in turn have been screwing around. This reminds me of that problem when a student finds a teacher grades their paper wrong in the students favor. Most my teachers said, if it happens, don't tell me. You made an honest effort, you don't have to bend over backwards to get what you paid for. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Because I assume that if I keep it, then sooner or later I will have to PAY for it. At about $6K list price t is 4x more than my budget :( From: t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 1:17:24 AM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives On Dec 15, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Michael Wosnick wrote: Instead I have a Precision T7500 workstation that I neither want nor ordered. Why don't you just keep what you got? Looks like a fine PC. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
On Dec 16, 2009, at 7:48 AM, Michael Wosnick wrote: Because I assume that if I keep it, then sooner or later I will have to PAY for it. At about $6K list price t is 4x more than my budget :( Unless the laws have changed a lot I believe you are allowed to keep stuff that is mailed to you unsolicited. I would offer them to call it even. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
With all the trouble, I'd do the same. You TRIED to fix it...they aren't. On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 5:03 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Dec 16, 2009, at 7:48 AM, Michael Wosnick wrote: Because I assume that if I keep it, then sooner or later I will have to PAY for it. At about $6K list price t is 4x more than my budget :( Unless the laws have changed a lot I believe you are allowed to keep stuff that is mailed to you unsolicited. I would offer them to call it even. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
An interesting nuance you propose. It wasn't exactly mailed to me unsolicited. I purposefully and in good faith ordered X, they delivered Y in error. Granted it is THEIR error, but how does that justify me just keeping what isn't mine From: tjpa t...@tjpa.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 7:03:45 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives On Dec 16, 2009, at 7:48 AM, Michael Wosnick wrote: Because I assume that if I keep it, then sooner or later I will have to PAY for it. At about $6K list price t is 4x more than my budget :( Unless the laws have changed a lot I believe you are allowed to keep stuff that is mailed to you unsolicited. I would offer them to call it even. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
I think the point is, you in good faith called and tried to fix the situation, they in turn have been screwing around. This reminds me of that problem when a student finds a teacher grades their paper wrong in the students favor. Most my teachers said, if it happens, don't tell me. You made an honest effort, you don't have to bend over backwards to get what you paid for. On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Michael Wosnick mwosn...@rogers.comwrote: An interesting nuance you propose. It wasn't exactly mailed to me unsolicited. I purposefully and in good faith ordered X, they delivered Y in error. Granted it is THEIR error, but how does that justify me just keeping what isn't mine From: tjpa t...@tjpa.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 7:03:45 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives On Dec 16, 2009, at 7:48 AM, Michael Wosnick wrote: Because I assume that if I keep it, then sooner or later I will have to PAY for it. At about $6K list price t is 4x more than my budget :( Unless the laws have changed a lot I believe you are allowed to keep stuff that is mailed to you unsolicited. I would offer them to call it even. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Actually, I ran the Win7 RC from an external USB dock and it seemed fine. I don't have esata hooked up, but all my USB peripherals seemed fine. eSata is mostly controlled by the bios, not the OS, so I would imagine it would work. I didn't even notice a slowdown or a bottleneck, presumably because I have enough RAM (4gb) that disk access was minimized. No question in this case external would avoid any hassles with sealed cases and warranties. But none of us was convinced Dell would take so long to ship the new system that we thought it worth the hassle of a temporary OS install. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:21 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is, even if you do install it externally, I doubt you have FW or ESATA on that machine, USB isn't made to be used to run an OS on an external drive. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Re: how long Dell is taking - unfortunately that is a long and sordid story and really needs more than one or two adult beverages to tell properly. Suffice it to say that although I have been a many-times in the past satisfied Dell customer, given my current experience this will alas be my last Dell system, assuming I ever get it. Dell customer service which, to my mind at least, used to be the exemplar of the industry, has sadly scraped the bottom of the barrel for me this time Short version: my original order was placed on Nov 1 and shipped on Nov 19. Arrived Nov 24 except what arrived bore no resemblance to what I ordered, despite the fact that my name was on the box, and the packing slip attested to my order. My XPS 9000 machine continues to be lost in transit, untraceable apparently. Instead I have a Precision T7500 workstation that I neither want nor ordered. XPS replacement order was entered by Dell Nov 25 - told it would be in priority sequence since the screw-up in delivery was Dell/UPS/Purolator - anyone but me. I am still waiting. So far, the machine is still in production - so much for priority - and has not been shipped. I have spent way too much of my recent lifetime (literally hours and days) on the phone to everyone in India at the Dell call centers trying to get some definitive answers from Dell as to what the hold up is (no idea), was it REALLY in any priority (no idea) when will it be out of production (no idea), when will it be shipped (no idea). You get the picture And the worst part is, that up until I managed to get a tech support person in Manila of all places to really own the case as he put it, no one was really on my side. But mid January is now floating around as a possible delivery date. That would be a full 2.5 months since the original order Ahhh, but they wanted me to send the Precision T7500 workstation (the one they sent me in error) back BEFORE they would ship my replacement out. I have told them there is no way I am letting that baby out of my hands until mine arrives. That's the only leverage I have right now. They have my money, they have my machine (somewhere, maybe) but I have an expensive XEON-powered 24 G RAM workstation that they should want to get back. After all it lists for about 3-4x more money that the one I ordered so they should be motivated for me to send it back, but it does not leave my sight until mine has arrived. But they have at least given me permission to use it until that time, just to compensate in some small way for the crap they have put me through. Hence the original questions about OS installation and drive swapping. Thanks for letting me vent smile Michael From: Tony B ton...@gmail.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 9:05:00 AM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives Actually, I ran the Win7 RC from an external USB dock and it seemed fine. I don't have esata hooked up, but all my USB peripherals seemed fine. eSata is mostly controlled by the bios, not the OS, so I would imagine it would work. I didn't even notice a slowdown or a bottleneck, presumably because I have enough RAM (4gb) that disk access was minimized. No question in this case external would avoid any hassles with sealed cases and warranties. But none of us was convinced Dell would take so long to ship the new system that we thought it worth the hassle of a temporary OS install. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:21 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is, even if you do install it externally, I doubt you have FW or ESATA on that machine, USB isn't made to be used to run an OS on an external drive. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
On 12/15/09, Michael Wosnick mwosn...@rogers.com wrote: Re: how long Dell is taking - unfortunately that is a long and sordid story and really needs more than one or two adult beverages to tell properly. Suffice it to say that although I have been a many-times in the past satisfied Dell customer, given my current experience this will alas be my last Dell system, assuming I ever get it. Dell customer service which, to my mind at least, used to be the exemplar of the industry, has sadly scraped the bottom of the barrel for me this time Short version: my original order was placed on Nov 1 and shipped on Nov 19. Arrived Nov 24 except what arrived bore no resemblance to what I ordered, despite the fact that my name was on the box, and the packing slip attested to my order. My XPS 9000 machine continues to be lost in transit, untraceable apparently. Instead I have a Precision T7500 workstation that I neither want nor ordered. XPS replacement order was entered by Dell Nov 25 - told it would be in priority sequence since the screw-up in delivery was Dell/UPS/Purolator - anyone but me. I am still waiting. So far, the machine is still in production - so much for priority - and has not been shipped. I have spent way too much of my recent lifetime (literally hours and days) on the phone to everyone in India at the Dell call centers trying to get some definitive answers from Dell as to what the hold up is (no idea), was it REALLY in any priority (no idea) when will it be out of production (no idea), when will it be shipped (no idea). You get the picture And the worst part is, that up until I managed to get a tech support person in Manila of all places to really own the case as he put it, no one was really on my side. But mid January is now floating around as a possible delivery date. That would be a full 2.5 months since the original order Ahhh, but they wanted me to send the Precision T7500 workstation (the one they sent me in error) back BEFORE they would ship my replacement out. I have told them there is no way I am letting that baby out of my hands until mine arrives. That's the only leverage I have right now. They have my money, they have my machine (somewhere, maybe) but I have an expensive XEON-powered 24 G RAM workstation that they should want to get back. After all it lists for about 3-4x more money that the one I ordered so they should be motivated for me to send it back, but it does not leave my sight until mine has arrived. But they have at least given me permission to use it until that time, just to compensate in some small way for the crap they have put me through. Hence the original questions about OS installation and drive swapping. Thanks for letting me vent smile Michael From: Tony B ton...@gmail.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 9:05:00 AM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives Actually, I ran the Win7 RC from an external USB dock and it seemed fine. I don't have esata hooked up, but all my USB peripherals seemed fine. eSata is mostly controlled by the bios, not the OS, so I would imagine it would work. I didn't even notice a slowdown or a bottleneck, presumably because I have enough RAM (4gb) that disk access was minimized. No question in this case external would avoid any hassles with sealed cases and warranties. But none of us was convinced Dell would take so long to ship the new system that we thought it worth the hassle of a temporary OS install. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:21 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is, even if you do install it externally, I doubt you have FW or ESATA on that machine, USB isn't made to be used to run an OS on an external drive. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
It couldt be faster to cancel, return and reorder. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Michael Wosnick mwosn...@rogers.comwrote: Re: how long Dell is taking - unfortunately that is a long and sordid story and really needs more than one or two adult beverages to tell properly. Suffice it to say that although I have been a many-times in the past satisfied Dell customer, given my current experience this will alas be my last Dell system, assuming I ever get it. Dell customer service which, to my mind at least, used to be the exemplar of the industry, has sadly scraped the bottom of the barrel for me this time Short version: my original order was placed on Nov 1 and shipped on Nov 19. Arrived Nov 24 except what arrived bore no resemblance to what I ordered, despite the fact that my name was on the box, and the packing slip attested to my order. My XPS 9000 machine continues to be lost in transit, untraceable apparently. Instead I have a Precision T7500 workstation that I neither want nor ordered. XPS replacement order was entered by Dell Nov 25 - told it would be in priority sequence since the screw-up in delivery was Dell/UPS/Purolator - anyone but me. I am still waiting. So far, the machine is still in production - so much for priority - and has not been shipped. I have spent way too much of my recent lifetime (literally hours and days) on the phone to everyone in India at the Dell call centers trying to get some definitive answers from Dell as to what the hold up is (no idea), was it REALLY in any priority (no idea) when will it be out of production (no idea), when will it be shipped (no idea). You get the picture And the worst part is, that up until I managed to get a tech support person in Manila of all places to really own the case as he put it, no one was really on my side. But mid January is now floating around as a possible delivery date. That would be a full 2.5 months since the original order Ahhh, but they wanted me to send the Precision T7500 workstation (the one they sent me in error) back BEFORE they would ship my replacement out. I have told them there is no way I am letting that baby out of my hands until mine arrives. That's the only leverage I have right now. They have my money, they have my machine (somewhere, maybe) but I have an expensive XEON-powered 24 G RAM workstation that they should want to get back. After all it lists for about 3-4x more money that the one I ordered so they should be motivated for me to send it back, but it does not leave my sight until mine has arrived. But they have at least given me permission to use it until that time, just to compensate in some small way for the crap they have put me through. Hence the original questions about OS installation and drive swapping. Thanks for letting me vent smile Michael From: Tony B ton...@gmail.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 9:05:00 AM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives Actually, I ran the Win7 RC from an external USB dock and it seemed fine. I don't have esata hooked up, but all my USB peripherals seemed fine. eSata is mostly controlled by the bios, not the OS, so I would imagine it would work. I didn't even notice a slowdown or a bottleneck, presumably because I have enough RAM (4gb) that disk access was minimized. No question in this case external would avoid any hassles with sealed cases and warranties. But none of us was convinced Dell would take so long to ship the new system that we thought it worth the hassle of a temporary OS install. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:21 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is, even if you do install it externally, I doubt you have FW or ESATA on that machine, USB isn't made to be used to run an OS on an external drive. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Well, in fact, I have thought about canceling outright and just going to a local supplier and walking out with some other acceptable substitute machine. Problem is, according to Dell, once a machine has started in production, it cannot be canceled. Only recourse is to accept it when it comes, and then return it for a refund. And then I fight them to see who pays shipping (they say me, I say them...). And the truth is, I really like the price (was on sale) and configuration I ordered. I can't duplicate it locally or I would have done so originally. Rock and hard place. From: John Duncan Yoyo johnduncany...@gmail.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 10:13:23 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives It could be faster to cancel, return and reorder. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Then I have only one phrase of advice. Patience Grasshopper, patience. Stewart At 10:09 PM 12/15/2009, you wrote: Well, in fact, I have thought about canceling outright and just going to a local supplier and walking out with some other acceptable substitute machine. Problem is, according to Dell, once a machine has started in production, it cannot be canceled. Only recourse is to accept it when it comes, and then return it for a refund. And then I fight them to see who pays shipping (they say me, I say them...). And the truth is, I really like the price (was on sale) and configuration I ordered. I can't duplicate it locally or I would have done so originally. Rock and hard place. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Ahhh... yes master :) Truth is, aggravated though I am, I can afford to be patient - it is my daughter whose computer died and who will inherit mine as a hand-me-over as soon as the replacement comes, who is in desperate straits :(. Michael From: Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 11:21:57 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives Then I have only one phrase of advice. Patience Grasshopper, patience. Stewart At 10:09 PM 12/15/2009, you wrote: Well, in fact, I have thought about canceling outright and just going to a local supplier and walking out with some other acceptable substitute machine. Problem is, according to Dell, once a machine has started in production, it cannot be canceled. Only recourse is to accept it when it comes, and then return it for a refund. And then I fight them to see who pays shipping (they say me, I say them...). And the truth is, I really like the price (was on sale) and configuration I ordered. I can't duplicate it locally or I would have done so originally. Rock and hard place. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Suffered through that when my wife's died on Thanksgiving and it took till after Christmas for hers to arrive. Guess whose she wanted to use all the time! :-) That can be a real marriage breaker. :-) Stewart At 10:42 PM 12/15/2009, you wrote: Ahhh... yes master :) Truth is, aggravated though I am, I can afford to be patient - it is my daughter whose computer died and who will inherit mine as a hand-me-over as soon as the replacement comes, who is in desperate straits :(. Michael * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
On Dec 15, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Michael Wosnick wrote: Instead I have a Precision T7500 workstation that I neither want nor ordered. Why don't you just keep what you got? Looks like a fine PC. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
With apologies for my lack of understanding, I'm not sure I see where this conversation about external drives is taking me. What is really at issue is whether or not I do a full install (be that on an external, internal, or whatever drive) of all my programs for the sake of a month of the loaner if I am going to have to repeat all of that when the new machine arrives. My alternatives are to muddle along as I am and do not do anything until the new machine arrives, or do a minimal installation on the loaner so that my soon-to-be-duplicated effort is minimized, or do a full blown installation on the loaner, which I would only do if I have reasonable prospect of being able to port over all of that work to the new machine without starting from scratch again. How does an extremal drive solve this for me? Michael From: b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 1:23:53 AM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives Yes, you can boot from an external drive, but that's not what he's asking. It's what he needs to do, but didn't state it. With a loaner computer, there's no reason to bother to switch the hard drive when you can plug in an external, possibly bare drive for a week or so until the right computer arrives. Easy. I can boot from a flash drive on my Mac. That's easier. Might work with Windows? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Michael Wosnick escribió: With apologies for my lack of understanding, I'm not sure I see where this conversation about external drives is taking me. What is really at issue is whether or not I do a full install (be that on an external, internal, or whatever drive) of all my programs for the sake of a month of the loaner if I am going to have to repeat all of that when the new machine arrives... How does an extremal drive solve this for me? When you install everything you need on an external drive it saves you a lot of time and effort. You won't have to open the loaner computer. You won't have to install all your programs and data on someone else's drive. You won't have to take the time to wipe the drive of the loaner to return it to pristine condition. Everything you use is on a drive you own. When you get your own computer, you can either clone the external drive to the internal or swap them. Either way, you own both and don't have to bother with someone else's drive. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
In essence, my original question was to utilize an external drive of sorts - at least external to the new machine I don't have yet. I was going to use a brand new drive placed temporarily into the loaner and the swap it into the new machine when it arrives. That was exactly my original question. But the prevailing wisdom here is that any system drive that is used in the loaner will not swap easily into a new machine since the hardware, peripherals, bios, MB etc will all be unrecognized, no drivers will exist etc and so at the very least I will have to do an in-place re installation of Win 7 to get the installed OS to recognize its new environs, and at the worst I will have to re-install everything including programs - exactly what I am trying to skirt. I still don't see how an external drive solves the problem since sooner or later the OS system on the drive has to be cloned or swapped into the new machine where the system will not recognize anything. Michael From: b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 1:43:55 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives Michael Wosnick escribió: With apologies for my lack of understanding, I'm not sure I see where this conversation about external drives is taking me. What is really at issue is whether or not I do a full install (be that on an external, internal, or whatever drive) of all my programs for the sake of a month of the loaner if I am going to have to repeat all of that when the new machine arrives... How does an extremal drive solve this for me? When you install everything you need on an external drive it saves you a lot of time and effort. You won't have to open the loaner computer. You won't have to install all your programs and data on someone else's drive. You won't have to take the time to wipe the drive of the loaner to return it to pristine condition. Everything you use is on a drive you own. When you get your own computer, you can either clone the external drive to the internal or swap them. Either way, you own both and don't have to bother with someone else's drive. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:41 PM, Michael Wosnick wrote: In essence, my original question was to utilize an external drive of sorts - at least external to the new machine I don't have yet. I was going to use a brand new drive placed temporarily into the loaner and the swap it into the new machine when it arrives. That was exactly my original question. This used to be a common thing to do. These days Windows is designed to prevent this as M$ decided it makes it too easy to evade paying for another copy of Windows. Betty is giving you advice from the perspective of a Mac user. A whole different kettle of fish. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Too true, Apple has to sue the pants off those making copies of their hardware, MS has to make it as hard as possible to copy their software...in the end of course it's just harder on the customer. On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 8:11 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:41 PM, Michael Wosnick wrote: In essence, my original question was to utilize an external drive of sorts - at least external to the new machine I don't have yet. I was going to use a brand new drive placed temporarily into the loaner and the swap it into the new machine when it arrives. That was exactly my original question. This used to be a common thing to do. These days Windows is designed to prevent this as M$ decided it makes it too easy to evade paying for another copy of Windows. Betty is giving you advice from the perspective of a Mac user. A whole different kettle of fish. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
In essence, my original question was to utilize an external drive of sorts - at least external to the new machine I don't have yet. I was going to use a brand new drive placed temporarily into the loaner and the swap it into the new machine when it arrives. That was exactly my original question. This used to be a common thing to do. These days Windows is designed to prevent this as M$ decided it makes it too easy to evade paying for another copy of Windows. Betty is giving you advice from the perspective of a Mac user. A whole different kettle of fish. You're right. I mostly run Windows inside an emulator which I sometimes use on a flash drive. Much better than on our PCs. So in other words, Windows still sucks? Can't you connect a drive externally, install Windows and programs and use that? Even if you have to reinstall everything on the new PC after returning the loaner, doesn't this work better as an alternative to opening a loaner? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
The problem is, even if you do install it externally, I doubt you have FW or ESATA on that machine, USB isn't made to be used to run an OS on an external drive. On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: In essence, my original question was to utilize an external drive of sorts - at least external to the new machine I don't have yet. I was going to use a brand new drive placed temporarily into the loaner and the swap it into the new machine when it arrives. That was exactly my original question. This used to be a common thing to do. These days Windows is designed to prevent this as M$ decided it makes it too easy to evade paying for another copy of Windows. Betty is giving you advice from the perspective of a Mac user. A whole different kettle of fish. You're right. I mostly run Windows inside an emulator which I sometimes use on a flash drive. Much better than on our PCs. So in other words, Windows still sucks? Can't you connect a drive externally, install Windows and programs and use that? Even if you have to reinstall everything on the new PC after returning the loaner, doesn't this work better as an alternative to opening a loaner? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Yes, you can boot from an external drive, but that's not what he's asking. It's what he needs to do, but didn't state it. With a loaner computer, there's no reason to bother to switch the hard drive when you can plug in an external, possibly bare drive for a week or so until the right computer arrives. Easy. I can boot from a flash drive on my Mac. That's easier. Might work with Windows? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
With a Windows PC, can you boot from an external drive? If not, can you run programs from an external drive? I do this with my Mac, and run Windows inside VirtualBox, but don't usually use my husband's PCs. If I plan to install the hard drive in the computer, I'll run it bare using a drive adapter [USB - SATA/ATA] for a short time until I have a chance to install the drive permanently. You may be able to do this on a Dell. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
Yes, you can boot from an external drive, but that's not what he's asking. When I worked with classified information, I had computers which would boot normally from the HDD 0 with access to the internet, then I had a SCSI Jaz Drive with a completely separate installation of the operating system and no access to network adapters. Worked like a charm. The main thing we did to remind the user which configuration they were in was to change the desktop background color. I think the classified ones were red... - Original Message - From: betty b1sun...@yahoo.es To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives With a Windows PC, can you boot from an external drive? If not, can you run programs from an external drive? I do this with my Mac, and run Windows inside VirtualBox, but don't usually use my husband's PCs. If I plan to install the hard drive in the computer, I'll run it bare using a drive adapter [USB - SATA/ATA] for a short time until I have a chance to install the drive permanently. You may be able to do this on a Dell. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
I've never known Dell or anyone else to invalidate its warranty because someone opened the case of the big box. The whole idea of the PC is that it is expandable by adding hardware in the expansion slots. I've never known a computer manufacturer (except maybe Apple) that required that you purchase the house brand of hardware to put into any expansion slot (or to add a docking station in a 5-1/4 inch drive bay. Fred Holmes At 12:17 AM 12/12/2009, Tony B wrote: Besides, if you break some kind of seal and they discover you've opened the case that could be trouble. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
In principle, with modern PCs (say five years or so old or less?), the motherboard ROM BIOS provides for booting from a (any) motherboard USB port. I have never tried to install a working OS (Windows or otherwise) on an external USB drive, but I have installed a drive image utility on a thumb drive and booted from it (OS was FreeDOS). There are some issues with respect to getting the keyboard and mouse to work (enable legacy USB support in the BIOS setup), but it works. In fact, on modern Dell machines, there is a Keypress (F12 on my machines) for bringing up a boot menu for a one-time (anytime) boot-from-wherever, without having to go into the motherboard BIOS setup and change the boot device priority list. Fred Holmes At 10:38 AM 12/12/2009, betty wrote: With a Windows PC, can you boot from an external drive? If not, can you run programs from an external drive? I do this with my Mac, and run Windows inside VirtualBox, but don't usually use my husband's PCs. If I plan to install the hard drive in the computer, I'll run it bare using a drive adapter [USB - SATA/ATA] for a short time until I have a chance to install the drive permanently. You may be able to do this on a Dell. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
This may be a dumb question, but here goes. I ordered a new computer from Dell and they shipped the wrong box to me. I am awaiting a replacement but it may take a while given the season. I was told I could use the wrong box (a Precision T7500 Workstation with a Xeon Processor) while I wait for the right one to be built and re-delivered (an XPS 9000 with an i7-920 processor). If I install a legal version of Win7 and install all my programs on a brand new drive that I put temporarily into the T7500, then when the XPS finally arrives, would I be able to simply remove the T7500's new boot drive and pop it into the XPS instead and be functional booting form the swapped drive? I don't want to spend days setting up all of my programs on the box that has to be sent back unless I have an easy migration to the right box when it arrives, i.e. a migration that does not have me re-install either the OS or more importantly all my programs. Both computers will be running on Win7 but the hardware is different enough that I am wondering about a) license issues or more likely b) incompatibility issues that might force me to go the re-install route. Anyone shed light on what I might expect, or better still, is there a better way to accomplish what I want? Many thanks, Michael * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
You likely can get away with what you propose, if you are prepared to use the CD disc that comes with the new machine (or downloaded files) to install the drivers for the new hardware. There won't be any need to delete the old drivers, although there may be some longer time taken to boot, as there will be registry entries for the old hardware. If you open support.dell.com and enter the System Service Tag number (alphanumeric string) for the new machine, you should be able to download all of the drivers for the hardware in it. At least it would work with Win2K and XP. Don't know for sure with Win7. I at one point had a dockable hard drive that I carried between two computers, which worked ok. Fred Holmes At 08:35 PM 12/11/2009, Michael Wosnick wrote: This may be a dumb question, but here goes. I ordered a new computer from Dell and they shipped the wrong box to me. I am awaiting a replacement but it may take a while given the season. I was told I could use the wrong box (a Precision T7500 Workstation with a Xeon Processor) while I wait for the right one to be built and re-delivered (an XPS 9000 with an i7-920 processor). If I install a legal version of Win7 and install all my programs on a brand new drive that I put temporarily into the T7500, then when the XPS finally arrives, would I be able to simply remove the T7500's new boot drive and pop it into the XPS instead and be functional booting form the swapped drive? I don't want to spend days setting up all of my programs on the box that has to be sent back unless I have an easy migration to the right box when it arrives, i.e. a migration that does not have me re-install either the OS or more importantly all my programs. Both computers will be running on Win7 but the hardware is different enough that I am wondering about a) license issues or more likely b) incompatibility issues that might force me to go the re-install route. Anyone shed light on what I might expect, or better still, is there a better way to accomplish what I want? Many thanks, Michael * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Swapping Boot Drives
In general, no. When you install an OS it senses all the hardware and tries it's best to work with that specific stuff. Replacing something with a lot of hardware - like a motherboard - usually requires reinstalling the OS. Not always, but personally I've never had good luck doing it. An awful lot of work just because you didn't want to wait a few days. Besides, if you break some kind of seal and they discover you've opened the case that could be trouble. On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Michael Wosnick mwosn...@rogers.com wrote: This may be a dumb question, but here goes. I ordered a new computer from Dell and they shipped the wrong box to me. I am awaiting a replacement but it may take a while given the season. I was told I could use the wrong box (a Precision T7500 Workstation with a Xeon Processor) while I wait for the right one to be built and re-delivered (an XPS 9000 with an i7-920 processor). If I install a legal version of Win7 and install all my programs on a brand new drive that I put temporarily into the T7500, then when the XPS finally arrives, would I be able to simply remove the T7500's new boot drive and pop it into the XPS instead and be functional booting form the swapped drive? I don't want to spend days setting up all of my programs on the box that has to be sent back unless I have an easy migration to the right box when it arrives, i.e. a migration that does not have me re-install either the OS or more importantly all my programs. Both computers will be running on Win7 but the hardware is different enough that I am wondering about a) license issues or more likely b) incompatibility issues that might force me to go the re-install route. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
