[CoTyroneMailingList] Bob the Protestant Horse.

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

We've mentioned "Bob, the Protestant Horse" by Michael McDonald.

Once I started to read it, I couldn't but it down. It is a humourous, 
whimsical and very true description of Irish rural life in the 1950s. 
Loved his dry Irish humour. I can vouch that what the author says is 
true, every word! I suspect that it is a real account of his early life 
experences 'down on the farm'.


The memories it brought back to me. My paternal ancestors came from 
Blackwater country near Dungannon, and on the maternal side, from 
Portadown, although my parents were born and bred in Belfast. Like our 
wee Michael in the book, I too was not born in Ireland, but in England, 
and when we returned to Belfast during the war, I was always referred to 
as the foreigner. My story is so much a mirror of wee Michael's I could 
have almost written it. I recall the "brown" of Belfast - clothing, 
decor, everything seemed to be brown!!! Even the black & white, 
hand-coloured photos of our family taken at the time are with brown 
clothes! The memories kept swarming back: the wet cobble stones and 
square-sets of the roads, the draught-horses slipping on the ice, the 
smell and noise of the city, the Saturday night tin bath in front of the 
fire - coal in Belfast.


Living with my grandparents until we emigrated to Australia, I recall 
G'dad's taciturn nature. He adored my younger sister, but had little 
time for an over-active 6 yo.


Then spending summer holidays on Robbo's farm (the Robinsons had a farm 
at Hillsborough, Co. Down) helping with the harvest, early morning 
chores like milk, eggs, water from the pump in the yard - no running 
water, earthen floor. I can't recall wearing anythig but wellies, except 
in summer when we went barefoot. Rationing on all things except chewing 
gum and ice-cream, making butter in the churn, coal fire in Belfast, 
peat in Hillsborough, the new Ferguson tractor (father's business was 
making agricultural machinery and selling tractors), oh the awful 
butter-milk which, like wee Michael, I just couldn't stomach. Then the 
religious divide - so real and so unnesessary. I think that that was one 
reason my parents chose to emigrate. But perhaps the most striking 
feature of the story, written in conversational style, is the 
phraseology. It is so like our family conversations. The words, the 
expressions, the dropped letters, the way the sentences are structured - 
I can hear, now, my aunt, mother and gran in the kitchen, all talking 
simultaneously to each other and yet each following the other's 
conversation perfectly. A lovely story, thanks for mentioning it.


Gordon

BTW, when we arrived in Australia in '48 my sister and I spent several 
summers with an aunt and uncle in rural Victoria. Although the most 
densely populated state, that town wasn't connected to the grid until 
1968, so we were already accustomed to the oil lamps and wood-fired stove.



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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Linda, I got the Amazon version for $3.99 (AUD) and downloaded to my 
iPad. Gordon


On 25/06/2020 7:27 am, Marion via CoTyroneList wrote:

‘Bob was a Protestant Horse’ is a book which you will find on Amazon. You can 
buy the kindle version and download it. JSTOR is where I found the journal 
articles related to the book ‘The population of Ireland 1750-1845’ by KH 
Connell.
Marion

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Linda Nimer
Sent: 24 June 2020 19:59
To: CoTyroneIreland. com Mailing List; Marion
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

Thanks for the clarification. I did find JSTOR while looking for the other one, 
but did not see Bob was a Protestant Horse in their Irish section. Any 
suggestions on how to locate it on the JSTOR website?

Linda





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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Hi Elwyn,

I wonder if 'your' farmer bought a Fordson tractor, as that was the 
franchise P p/l had, and whether they bought from dad as he sold 
mainly in Down and Armagh? On one occasion I recall standing at the 
bottom of a rather steep field (dressed in shorts like the lad in the 
cover picture of the book) alongside the farmer, as dad demonstrated the 
tractor ploughing up the field and harrowing it (P made ploughs and 
harrows). He often commented that he thought that some farmers just 
wanted their fields ploughed and had no intention of buying a tractor! 
Anyway, dad got to the top of the seep rise and tried to turn, but the 
slope was too great. Then he tried to reverse, when the front of the 
tractor rose up before him (a bit like in the popular Irish Blessing), 
so he called to us and we had to cling onto the front of the machine to 
counterweigh it as he eventually got back down the hill. Dad later 
remarked that the Irish stand their fields on edge so they can plough 
both sites. :) He also confessed that he thought some of the terrain he 
demonstrated on, whilst he could handle the tractor in those conditions, 
was too dangerous for the average farmer to use a tractor and it gave 
him some cause for concern.


Being in Belfast, we had electricity during the war, although the street 
lights were gas. We got a telephone installed around 1945 so that the 
firm could contact him in emergency. We were all admonished to not use 
the phone, it's for business only!!! I still recall the number: 5557.


Fond memories. Thanks for mentioning the McDonald's book. Must write my 
own memoirs sometime, when I get the time.


Gordon

On 24/06/2020 7:26 pm, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote:

Gordon,



I am glad you are enjoying the book. It made me laugh.  I have a neighbour
who was brought up on a farm like that in Co. Down and he says it’s pretty
typical. He particularly recalled the arrival of the first tractor in the
late 1940s which he (as a young man) was wildly enthusiastic about. His
father however was very suspicious and preferred horses. Whenever the
tractor broke down, his father was quick to point out: ‘You don’t have that
problem with horses.” (Though actually you do). The horses were kept on
largely as pets till the end of their days because his father was so fond
of them.



Electricity was another controversial change. His father couldn’t see the
point of it at first. It was just as easy to light a paraffin lamp to milk
the cows, as flick a switch, was his view. However when someone invented
electric milking machines and it halved the time taken to milk the cows, he
suddenly came round to its uses. At first the only electricity on the farm
was in the milking shed. None in the house. No use for it there!





Elwyn




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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

I've just downloaded "Bob was a Protestant Horse" and I notice a few 
similarities to my early days:


 * It's set near Cookstown, just north of Dungannon where my ancestors
   came from (or is it 'from whence my ancestors came'? :)  )
 * There's a Wilkinson farm just up the road. That's my name, but not
   my farm. There are many Wilkinsons in that general area. Mine moved
   to Belfast in the late 19thC.
 * I too spent several summers, in the '40s up to 1948 when we
   emigrated, on family friend Robinson's Farm in Hillsborough, Co.
   Down, as a child. Dad was works manager of Patrick & Wilkinson, an
   agricultural machinery manufacturer in Belfast, and I'd often
   accompany him on trips where he'd try to sell tractors to farmers.
   Sometimes successfully, but draught horses were common then.
 * The farm's description brings back fond memories of those farming
   days. I do remember the cold mornings, running barefoot all the
   time, collecting eggs, keeping away from the geese, and harvesting
   time in the fields when the 'ladies' would ply us 'workers' with
   ploughmens lunches.

What a lovely whimsical story I have yet to read in full.

Gordon


On 24/06/2020 10:02 am, Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList wrote:

Elwyn,

Don't for one moment think Handfasting is obsolete. My Irish cousin 
(of mature years) 'Handfasted' a few years ago in true Druid fashion 
to his 3rd wife. Although married in Oz they traveled to the UK to 
visit Liverpool relatives (from Armagh) and for their Handfasting. I 
have the video and it was a moving ceremony. Some of these Druid 
traditions still persist. In this case I think the Handfasting came 
after the marriage. ;-)


Gordon


On 24/06/2020 4:45 am, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote:

Peter,



I have come across “buckle the beggar” but not buckleberry.  It looks 
to be
a term that must have come to Ulster with the Scots, as many of our 
local
words did. I have never heard it used in Ulster but it seems as 
though it

was at one time because I can see a couple of references on the net.



In the Scottish National Dictionary it says: *buckle-beggar*,
*buckle-the-beggars*, “one who marries others in a clandestine and
disorderly manner” (Sc. 1808 Jam.)



It reminds me a little of another form of marriage known as 
“handfasting.”
This was particularly common in the Scottish Borders in the 1500s & 
early

1600s, where there were very few Priests or Ministers due to the whole
place being basically lawless. Such clerics as there were usually had to
have a peel tower (similar to a bawn in Ulster) to retreat to if 
attacked.

So it was hard to get a Priest or a Minister to marry you. Quoting from
Godfrey Watsons’ book ”The Border Reivers[1] <#_ftn1>” (publ 1974) p 
180:




  “..if a priest was perhaps available only once a year, a problem
inevitably arose for those who wished to get married out of season, 
as it

were. The answer was ‘handfasting.’ This was a custom whereby a couple
would live together till the book-a-bosom man could bless their 
union. The
arrangement was for a trial period of one year (unless the parson 
appeared

earlier), after which it became permanent. If, before then, one or other
wanted to bring the arrangement to an end, he or she must accept
responsibility for any children of the union, in which case they were 
still
regarded as legitimate. There is still in existence an old genealogy 
of the
Elliots of Lariston, which refers to “Simon of Benks who handfasted 
or took
for a trial a bastard daughter of the said Gibbie with the Golden 
Garters
on condition he should pay her a considerable tocher[2] <#_ftn2> in 
case he
was not pleased with her.” Normally handfasting required no dowry, 
and this

idea of making second hand goods more marriageable may well have been
restricted to the gentry, who appear to have handfasted in the same 
way as

anyone else.  John, Lord Maxwell, for instance was contracted thus to a
sister of the Earl of Angus.



Nobody in the Borders seems to have worried very much about children 
being
born out of wedlock, and there are countless examples of natural[3] 
<#_ftn3>

children figuring openly in men’s wills.”



Isn’t “Gibbie with the Golden Garters” a wonderful name?




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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Elwyn,

Don't for one moment think Handfasting is obsolete. My Irish cousin (of 
mature years) 'Handfasted' a few years ago in true Druid fashion to his 
3rd wife. Although married in Oz they traveled to the UK to visit 
Liverpool relatives (from Armagh) and for their Handfasting. I have the 
video and it was a moving ceremony. Some of these Druid traditions still 
persist. In this case I think the Handfasting came after the marriage. ;-)


Gordon


On 24/06/2020 4:45 am, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote:

Peter,



I have come across “buckle the beggar” but not buckleberry.  It looks to be
a term that must have come to Ulster with the Scots, as many of our local
words did. I have never heard it used in Ulster but it seems as though it
was at one time because I can see a couple of references on the net.



In the Scottish National Dictionary it says: *buckle-beggar*,
*buckle-the-beggars*, “one who marries others in a clandestine and
disorderly manner” (Sc. 1808 Jam.)



It reminds me a little of another form of marriage known as “handfasting.”
This was particularly common in the Scottish Borders in the 1500s & early
1600s, where there were very few Priests or Ministers due to the whole
place being basically lawless. Such clerics as there were usually had to
have a peel tower (similar to a bawn in Ulster) to retreat to if attacked.
So it was hard to get a Priest or a Minister to marry you. Quoting from
Godfrey Watsons’ book ”The Border Reivers[1] <#_ftn1>” (publ 1974) p 180:



  “..if a priest was perhaps available only once a year, a problem
inevitably arose for those who wished to get married out of season, as it
were. The answer was ‘handfasting.’ This was a custom whereby a couple
would live together till the book-a-bosom man could bless their union. The
arrangement was for a trial period of one year (unless the parson appeared
earlier), after which it became permanent. If, before then, one or other
wanted to bring the arrangement to an end, he or she must accept
responsibility for any children of the union, in which case they were still
regarded as legitimate. There is still in existence an old genealogy of the
Elliots of Lariston, which refers to “Simon of Benks who handfasted or took
for a trial a bastard daughter of the said Gibbie with the Golden Garters
on condition he should pay her a considerable tocher[2] <#_ftn2> in case he
was not pleased with her.” Normally handfasting required no dowry, and this
idea of making second hand goods more marriageable may well have been
restricted to the gentry, who appear to have handfasted in the same way as
anyone else.  John, Lord Maxwell, for instance was contracted thus to a
sister of the Earl of Angus.



Nobody in the Borders seems to have worried very much about children being
born out of wedlock, and there are countless examples of natural[3] <#_ftn3>
children figuring openly in men’s wills.”



Isn’t “Gibbie with the Golden Garters” a wonderful name?




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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Message to Don Quigly, re: search for military records of ancestor

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Such a lovely spot, Penetang (for short), and nearby Midland, with lots 
of naval history too. A beautiful part of Georgian Bay to be laid to 
rest. Gordon.


On 2/06/2020 5:30 am, Darlene Mulligan via CoTyroneList wrote:

I have no idea where Don Quigley lives, but if he lives outside of Ontario, 
Canada, I just want to let him know that I grew up in the Penetanguishine (now 
referred to as Penetang)  area.
  
If the burial location of James Quigley is known, I may be able to get pictures if there is a marked grave.


If this is information you might want or need, please let me know if you have 
any details of the burial location.The Penetang area is historically Roman 
Catholic, and the largest church in the area is the Roman Catholic cathedral 
which stands high on a hill and overlooks the Penetang harbour, where James 
would have likely arrived.





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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] age difference

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Don,

don't rely on 'ages' to infer 'correct' dob. Birth dates were not 
generally recorded with accuracy, except on actual birth records, nor 
were birthdays celebrated much, as too many children didn't live long 
enough for it to matter. Many people just didn't know their year of 
birth or the date. So, especially on tombstones, censuses and death 
certs, age was too often not a reliable number. I have found 
discrepancies spanning 20 years, so 7 to 15 is nothing unusual. Just be 
careful to check your primary sources for confirmation that the people 
are actually the same.


A modern day example. My daughter-in-law lives in Hobart, Tasmania. A 
few years ago she went to the dentist for a checkup. Gave the 
receptionist her name and dob, as you do, and the R replied along the 
lines: "So you're here for a filling, please take a seat?"


"No", she replied, "I'm here just for a check-up". The receptionist 
referred to her notes. "It says here ...  Aren't you (so and so) 
person?", "Yes" was the reply. "And your dob is ...", "Yes" she 
answered, "But I'm not here for a filling, just a check up".


It transpired that there were 2 different people with the same name AND 
same dob AND attending the same dentist. How's that for a coincidence? 
Take care.


Cheers, Gordon

On 1/06/2020 8:53 am, Don 1 via CoTyroneList wrote:

If I am searching for a James Quigley, and I find a spread of 7 to 15 years 
-would this be the person I am looking for?
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Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon   Skype id: neredon
Emails: gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.aunereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au


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[CoTyroneMailingList] "Full Age"

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

A simple query. In 1850, did the term 'full age' for marriage mean, 18 
or more, or 21+? I've always assumed one to be 18 to be legally wed 
without parental permission, but maybe 'full age' meant the 'age of 
majority'?


Gordon

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Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon   Skype id: neredon
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Dunplemore, Londonderry

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Jim, that's what I thought, - a misprint. I have ancestors who lived in 
Templemore, (one a bookkeeper in Derry City), in the 1800s. Gordon


On 28/05/2020 9:49 am, James McKane via CoTyroneList wrote:

Could it be Templemore???

Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario


On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:47 PM Don 1 via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote:


Hello I have been searching for a village or town called Dunplemore about
in 1808.maybe in county Londonderry Is this one of the villages that
disappeared in time, because I can’t find it on maps.




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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Townland Records

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Rick, My guess is that they could have been part of the plantation of 
Ulster in the 17thC. I suspect(based on my surname) that my ancestors 
may have been part of that event too but have not been able to find any 
records of who arrived from where and when. Any help (thanks Len S. for 
your earlier help) would be appreciated. Gordon


On 22/05/2020 3:14 am, Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList wrote:

My Morrison ancestors occupied a farm in the Loughterush townland (Kilskeery 
Parish) from at least the mid 1700s until 1970 when the last Morrison on the 
farm passed away (he was a bachelor), and the farm was sold at public auction. 
The earliest ancestor I have found records for was Edward Morrison, and the 
earliest reference to Loughterush was with the birth of a daughter of his in 
1781.
My question is: Is there a way to find out when the Morrisons first came to 
occupy the farm in Loughterush?
Thank you for any help on this.

   Rick Smoll
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Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon   Skype id: neredon
Emails: gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.aunereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au


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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] How do you pronounce "Ye" ??

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Well Jim,

I like that explanation. It recalls to some extent the background of the 
/séimhiú /or lenition in Irish Gaeli/c - //Gaeilge/ - a very, very old 
language. The 'h' is not part of the Irish alphabet, which helps to 
explain in part, the difficulty in pronunciation of Irish Gaelic.


In Irish, the /séimhiú/  is used to soften the sound of the letter and 
in old Irish was represented by a 'dot' over the consonant. This can be 
seen in the Book of Kells, for instance. The dot became difficult to 
reproduce when printing became common so a letter, which isn't otherwise 
used in Irish, the 'h', was used. The /séimhiú /is applied to consonants 
and is a bit like the accents used in many languages to modify the sound 
of letters - usually a vowels.


To take an example, the 'b', which in /Gaeilge /normally sounds like the 
English 'b' or 'b-yah' (depending on whether it's sandwiched between 
broad or slender vowels) becomes, when lenited as in 'bh',  a 'w' or 'v' 
sound (depending on whether it's sandwiched between broad or slender 
vowels). Or the 'f', which sounds like the English 'f' or 'f-yah' 
(depending on whether it's sandwiched between broad or slender vowels), 
becomes silent when the /séimhiú /is added as in 'fh'.

//

Trying to read modern Irish, especially out loud, can be trying for the 
novice.


Thanks for the reference.

Gordon

BTW, can anyone on this list speak /Gaeilge/ ? Ulster Gaelic /- Gaeilge 
Uladh/ - is still common in parts of Donegal.



//

On 13/05/2020 7:11 pm, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote:

Well, I was very surprised at the correct answer

https://blog.eogn.com/2020/05/12/how-do-you-pronounce-ye-2/

Enjoy!

Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
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Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon   Skype id: neredon
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] I'm trying to find my great grandfather Felix John Quinn

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Re birth dates,

In researching the family history, I have noticed, at least in the case 
of notable ancestors, that the date of death is often known precisely 
but birth dates are not - only years are available and even then one 
must be circumspect. Apparently one's birth was unimportant as infant 
survival rates were so low. Baptism gives a clue, but then may be long 
after the birth, from a few weeks or months to maybe 20 years (in one case)!


Gordon

On 7/05/2020 11:04 pm, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote:

Francesca,



As others have explained, Munterevlin/Munterdevlin is a general area up the
west side of Lough Neagh. Mainly in Counties Tyrone & Derry. You can see
what RC parishes there are in the general area from the attached two maps:



https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/counties/rcmaps/tyronerc.php#maps/



https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/counties/rcmaps/derryrc.php#maps/



If you click on each parish you will see what records exist. A problem you
face is that not all parishes have records for 1850. For example, Ardtrea
has a gap in its baptisms from 1843 to 1854. So it’s possible that the
reason you have been unable to find your Felix is because there is no
record to find.


Bear in mind too that in the 1800s most Irish people didn’t celebrate
birthdays and often didn’t know exactly when they were born. If officialdom
later asked for a date of birth it wasn’t unknown for them to just make one
up. So the date you have may not be quite correct. Do look a year or two
either side of the information you have. And if you do find a possible
record it may only be the baptism date, not the date of birth. Not all
records in 1850 included date of birth.  With RC baptisms the baptism date
should be very close to the birth date but again some flexibility is
required.



Possibly DNA testing may be a way of matching with others who have
additional information about where the family originate. Family Tree DNA
reportedly has more people with Ulster roots than any other company. That
obviously increases the chances of finding a match. You might want to try
them or, if you have already tested, you can transfer your results to them
for no fee.



The North of Ireland Family History Society is running an Ulster DNA
project in conjunction with FTDNA and can offer testing kits at a reduced
price.  http://www.nifhs.org (Go to DNA project on the website).





Elwyn







On Thu, 7 May 2020 at 13:18, ECardwell via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote:


 From memory, Munterevlin was the general name of quite a large area of
north east County Tyrone,  Arboe (Ardboe) would be a parish within it. Lots
of Quinns in that area.

Evelyn Cardwell

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On 7 May 2020, 12:37, at 12:37, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote:

Hello again Francesca,
Jim McKane has suggested taking a look at


https://www.culturenorthernireland.org/article/1185/a-brief-history-of-ardboe

for a reference to Munterevlin.

Place Names of Northern Ireland is essential for locating obsolete sub
denominations and long-forgotten placenames
http://www.placenamesni.org/resultdetails.php?entry=20934 and
Munterevlin is mentioned in Arboe parish in 1609 at the time of the
Plantation. Apparently mentioned in Ordnance Survey Memoirs c1835, but
not in either the Arboe tithe applotment Book (1826) or Griffiths
Valuation (c1860), so obviously declared obsolete and had fallen out of
use by that time. There are many Quinns recorded in the tithe book,
including several with the given name of Felix.

So then went to the online Arboe RC registers of baptisms
https://www.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/arboe-rc3.html There are
three Felix Quinns recorded and their townland of residence, but none
born in 1850. Perhaps your forebear took the knowledge of an old native
place of birth, known only locally with him when he emigrated?

Hope this helps………..second time lucky,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia


Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

From: Len Swindley
Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2020 8:29 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing
List
Cc: Francesca Piantadosi
Subject: RE: [CoTyroneMailingList] I'm trying to find my great
grandfather Felix John Quinn

Hello Francesca,

There is no location or townland within Co Tyrone known as Munterevlin.
Referring to the Alphabetical Index to the Townlands and Towns,
Parishes and Baronies of Ireland (compiled in 1851 and still current),
it is not recorded in any of the twenty-six counties, North or South.
How accurate do you believe your record to be?

Regards,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

From: Francesca Piantadosi via
CoTyroneList
Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2020 6:44 PM
To:

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Wills of David & George MacGhee

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Hi Len, As you will know, a surprising number of US presidents can trace 
their ancestry to Co. Tyrone. Gordon.


On 18/04/2020 2:48 pm, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList wrote:

Hello Listers,

This is interesting; there are two surviving Maghee graves in Leckpatrick Old 
Burial Ground, Ballymagorry, Strabane, Co. Tyrone; both with gravestones.

GEORGE MAGHEE
HERE LYETH THE BODY OF GEORGE MAGHEE WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE THE 29[TH] DAY OF 
NOVEMBER ANNO DOM 1743
Mention is made of the Wilsons of Dergalt, Strabane; these are the ancestors of 
President Woodrow Wilson

JOHN MAGHEE
[with Armorial motif] HERE IS THE BURIAL GROUND OF JOHN MAGHEE DECEASED 26 
FEBRUARY 1617 AND HIS FAMILY
This is one of the oldest headstones to survive anywhere in Ulster

Regards,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jim McKane
Sent: Wednesday, 15 April 2020 8:31 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
Subject: CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Wills of David & George MacGhee

Memorandum of the Will of David MacGhee, Loghmonye, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 
1678

Will of George MacGhee, Stabane, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 
1741

Thanks to Bill McGee for two great additions to CTI!


Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario

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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Townlands, Civil Parishes, Baronies & Dioceses Maps of Co. Donegal, Ireland

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

These OS maps are great, Elwyn, but I generally use the Griffith maps 
from mid-19thC, which are probably based on the OS maps anyway, but are 
in colour!!! and one can ghost the old onto the modern maps with the 
slider. I also find them slightly easier to use. 
http://askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch 
I found the actual house that my ancestors lived in from Griffith and 
then used Google Earth to 'drive' along the virtual roads where they 
lived. Almost as good as being there! Sadly their farmhouse ain't there 
any more. :(


Gordon

On 23/02/2020 5:36 pm, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote:

Susan,


You might find the historical maps on the PRONI website helpful:



https://apps.spatialni.gov.uk/PRONIApplication/



There’s a whole set of maps of Tyrone (and the rest of Northern Ireland)
with the oldest dating to 1832. You can switch between them to compare the
changes through the years.



There’s a button for the map viewer tour on the top right hand side of the
screen. Probably worth starting with it. It explains what all the buttons
do.




Elwyn

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 at 23:26, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote:


Hello Susan,

The set of Co Donegal maps created by Bob Hilchey are unique to that
county only. Sadly, there is nothing remotely close to the detail they
contain elsewhere (and freely available online):
CIVIL PARISHES and TOWNLAND MAPS
And maps of BARONIES  and ECCLESLIASTICAL divisions, and additionally,
each parish map indicates which POOR LAW UNION they fall within. Bob
Hilchey’s maps are essential for Co. Donegal research.

As Jim advised, there is a complete set of free online parish maps
(indicating each townland) for Co. Tyrone on CTI, but they follow a
different format to that compiled by Bob Hilchey.

Regards,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

From: Susan Black via CoTyroneList
Cc: Susan Black
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content -
Townlands, Civil Parishes, Baronies & Dioceses Maps of Co. Donegal, Ireland

Are there maps like these for Co. Tyrone?

Susan

On 2020-02-21 3:08 a.m., Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote:

Townlands, Civil Parishes, Baronies & Dioceses Maps of Co. Donegal,

Ireland



A complete set of maps for the whole of Co. Donegal.

Enjoy
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Lifford Bridge, Lifford, Co. Donegal

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

A curious custom indeed. Thanks Jim.

Sent from Gordon's iPad - nere...@gmail.com 

> On 14 Jan 2020, at 9:52 pm, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Lifford Bridge, Lifford, Co. Donegal
> 
> 
> Courtesy of the Monreagh Heritage Centre, Co. Donegal.
> 
> Jim McKane
> Kitchener, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Retrieval of Irish archive lost in 1922 fire

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Oh the tragedy of war! Visiting Ankor Wat, Cambodia, some years ago I 
was intrigued by white numbers and letters painted on masonry blocks 
scattered about the magnificent ruins, some in neat piles others 
disordered. On enquiring I found that years earlier, when working on 
restoration of the famous complex, some bits had been disassembled by 
archaeologists, generally to remove damaging tree and vegetation 
growths, and had been marked with their locations recorded for future 
rebuilding. When the Pol Pot regime moved through the region in the '90s 
killing teachers and attacking scholarship, they destroyed virtually all 
the records with clues to reassembly of the blocks, and now the 
restorers having lost the plans for restoration are faced with a massive 
puzzle. Where do these blocks go? How were they placed originally? What 
was the layout of the building? And so the stone blocks still remain 
scattered about waiting a solution. Wars have a lot to answer for.


Gordon



On 6/12/2019 9:24 pm, James McKane via CoTyroneList wrote:
A huge project is underway to restore HUGE numbers of records which 
were lost in the 1922 fire using duplicate records from around the 
world. For more details read the full article at - http://bit.ly/33Vogbw


I can't wait!!
Jim


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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - George Fulton, Newtownstewart, Co. Tyrone, Army Deserter, 1780

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Yes Ron, during the Irish wars of the mid 18thC there were many 
deserters who joined the other side! It was a 2-way exchange too. 
Depended on food, wages and the reliability of being fed, clothed and 
housed than a particular loyalty.


Gordon

On 1/12/2019 8:51 pm, Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList wrote:


Hi Bruce

I have done a fair amount of reading on regiments of the British army 
and particular the 100th reg of Foot. I would not assume that your 
ancestor was killed for desertion. It appears that desertion was a 
very common problem in the army with extremely high percentages of 
soldiers walking away from their duties. Depending on the situation 
and circumstances the sentences where quite mixed and seldom involving 
the death penalty. Often corporal punishment was the rule of law. I 
suspect if they illuminated every soldier who deserted for various 
reasons the British army would have been very much smaller.


Cheers

Ron McCoy

On 2019-12-01 3:00 a.m., Bruce Newport via CoTyroneList wrote:

This is of interest to me.
My FULTON line’s earliest ancestor is William FULTON (1736-1791) 
buried St Patrick’s Church of Ireland, Gortin and his sons Thomas 
(1766-1797), John (1783-1860), of Droit, and David (1784-1863).
I assume the George FULTON, born about 1753 who deserted in 1780 
would not have had a long life if, or after, he was captured.

Thank you.
Bruce Newport.
*From:* Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 


*Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:17 PM
*To:* CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 


*Cc:* Jim McKane 
*Subject:* [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - 
George Fulton, Newtownstewart, Co. Tyrone, Army Deserter, 1780
George Fulton, Newtownstewart, Co. Tyrone, Army Deserter, 1780 


Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario

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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] The Murder of Widow McCullagh , Rooskey, Gortin, Bodoney Lower Parish, Co Tyrone, Northern Ireland

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

cc Chris Morrow

Hi Len,

That's one way to resolve an interest in the property, but sadly a 
lose-lose outcome for both! My 
McCullough/McUllough/McCullogh/McCulloch/McCullagh/McCullugh/McCallow/MacCulloch/MacCullow/MacCollough/MacCullagh 
and now McCullow ;-) ancestors come from nearby Armagh, Portadown way, 
so I don't think Bridget is related. Rachel and Rebecca are names which 
do occur in the ancestry tree but no Bridget as yet. Interesting all the 
same.


Thanks,

Gordon


On 29/11/2019 2:18 pm, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList wrote:


Hello Listers,

An interesting newspaper report from Australia:

Extracted from the Ovens and Murray Advertiser, Beechworth, Victoria, 
Australia, April 24 1879


Death occurred at Teebane West, February 23 1879 and was registered 
February 25:


BRIDGET McCULLOW, widow aged 40 years; Injuries, homicide, immediate; 
information received from ROBERT McCREA, coroner, Strabane


McCullagh was commonly spelt and pronounced as McCullow in that part 
of Co. Tyrone


Hoping that this report is of interest to researchers,

Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10



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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriages and Death Announcements

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Try: Green Park, Goldpark, Donore Park. Gordon

On 22/11/2019 8:45 am, Liam Ó Cuinn via CoTyroneList wrote:

Páirc an Fhomhair, Páirc an Óir, Páirc an Uabhair


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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Altedesert Parish C of I Records and Pomeroy Presbyterian Records

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Peter,

Sometimes serendipity reveals a link. Several years ago I was viewing 
microfiche copies of Irish Censuses made available through the local 
(Adelaide) LDS library. There was a small cost, but the search was worth 
it. After locating and finding what I wanted, I happened to flick over a 
few pages, as you do, and noticed a familiar name and guess what? It was 
that of the birth place of my grandmother! Something that had escaped 
the family historians. So occasionally just unstructured browsing over 
old records can be useful, if tedious.


Gordon

On 4/11/2019 3:37 pm, Peter McKittrick via CoTyroneList wrote:

_Altedesert C of I_

From PRONI Guide to Church Records, Baptisms 1877-; marriages 1846-; 
and burials 1877- are in “local custody", yet Len Swindley’s 
transcriptions mention FHL Film and suggest filming by PRONI staff. 
 Does this mean the same records are in two places, PRONI and local?


In any case, as Len Swindley has transcribed marriages 1846-1852 which 
hopefully overlaps into nidirect marriage records (from 1845 depending 
on denomination) if one is looking for such marriages and baptisms and 
burials before 1877 (baptisms and deaths /from/ 1877 are well into 
nidirect records) there does not seem much point in viewing these 
records wherever they are, except for the slim chance of picking up 
something not registered.  Is that a reasonable statement?


_Pomeroy Presbyterian_

From the PRONI Guide, Baptisms 1841-1967, Marriages 1845-1936 records 
appear to be at PRONI MIC1P/20 and available to be perused.


From all this, it would seem pointless to go to these two localities 
for information, other than viewing the graveyard at Pomeroy 
Presbyterian (no graveyard at Altedesert Parish Church)?


Appreciate any comments.

Regards

Peter McKittrick, Cheltenham, Victoria, Australia

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[CoTyroneMailingList] ISAANZ 24 conference (Irish Studies in Australia and New Zealand)

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Hi Listers, I only became aware of this conference this morning. There 
is only a little time left to register so will probably appeal to the 
Irish Diaspora in Oz. It also shows the interest 'Down Under' in Irish 
heritage. Gordon


/From 9 to 12 December this year, the ISAANZ 24 conference (Irish 
Studies in Australia and New Zealand) is being held in Adelaide. /


//

/The first event, the Tionól or Gathering, with a focus on the Irish 
language, is free. All are welcome. Come and share some Irish with us, 
whether you remember a few words from your childhood, none at all, or 
are just interested in learning more. Details, including RSVP 
information, are in the attached flier./


//

/And if you are interested in the conference, find out more at 
//https://www.flinders.edu.au/engage/culture/whats-on/24th-australasian-irish-studies-conference//. 
The conference theme is ‘Foregrounding Irish Women: The Antipodes and 
Beyond’. It is multidisciplinary, including history, literature, 
language and the creative arts. And in this year, where we celebrate 125 
years of women’s suffrage in South Australia, we are interested in newly 
discovered stories and shedding new light on the lives of Irish women. /


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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Travelling Extraordinary 1835: Mr. Hood of Newtownstewart, Co. Tyrone

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Quite a feat. In similar vein: when we sailed to Oz in 1948 it took 4 
weeks. Recently a friend mentioned a cruise from here to Southampton 
which took 7 weeks! (Mind you, the cruise ship went via the Cape of Good 
Hope and not the Suez Canal as we did.)


On 21/10/2019 10:39 am, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList wrote:


Hello Listers,

Have extracted the following surprising report from 1835:

December 8 1835; Londonderry Journal

Travelling Extraordinary: MR. HOOD, of Newtownstewart, left home for 
Glasgow, on Thursday morning, the 26th ult., and sailed per the “St. 
Columb” (from Londonderry); transacted business in Glasgow, and having 
returned by the “Foyle”, reached home on Saturday at 7 o’clock, PM.


This journey would have also have required coach travel between 
Newtownstewart and Londonderry and presumably the same again in 
Glasgow. A remarkable event.


Regards,

Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10



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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Bankruptcy - John Knox, Insolvent Debtor, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 1817

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

No wonder it was quiet lately - Len was holding back until after the 
school hols. :-)


On 10/10/2019 8:37 pm, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote:
Bankruptcy - John Knox, Insolvent Debtor, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 
1817 


Another great file thanks to Len Swindley!!

Jim McKane


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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Not necessary to reply to my TEST message........

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Yes, Len, there are lots of McCulloch/McCullough/McCullagh/... in the 
area. My McCullagh's come from near Portadown in Armagh. A stone's throw 
away from Tyrone. I've even found their farm-land, thanks to Mr 
Griffith. Gordon


On 1/10/2019 7:53 pm, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList wrote:


Hello Cheryl,

There is really no way of locating your forebear Mary McCulloch; As 
previously advised, there are just too many McCullochs (and variants) 
and your information is scanty – parents’ name unknown which makes 
research impossible. There are forty-three parishes in Co. Tyrone and 
without the knowledge of the church and religious denomination there 
is little prospect of success. There are very few indexed registers 
for Tyrone churches and they are held at the Public Record Office of 
Northern Ireland (PRONI), Belfast.


There are many partial transcriptions of church registers on CTI 
https://www.cotyroneireland.com/ which you are most welcome to peruse.


Regards,

Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10



*From:* CoTyroneList  on 
behalf of Cheryl Humphreys via CoTyroneList 


*Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 8:00:22 PM
*To:* CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
*Cc:* Cheryl Humphreys 
*Subject:* Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Not necessary to reply to my TEST 
message

Hello Jim,
This Cheryl Humphreys I get all of the emails that you send
I sent a email before asking about Mary McCulloch born about 1829 or 
1830 on county Tyrone but you said there was to many, is there another 
way that I can try to find her birth or her parents names.

Thank you
Cheryl Humphreys cheryl30...@gmail.com 

On Thu, 19 Sep. 2019, 7:27 pm Jim McKane via CoTyroneList, 
> wrote:


 but we are working towards solving a problem were
some members are not receiving the emails.

Thanks for your patience
Jim
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Moy School, Clonfeacle Parish, Co. Tyrone, Examination Results 1808

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Thanks, Len. However, although my ancestors came from the area, I don't 
see any of their names :-(. All brawn and no brains. Gordon


On 23/09/2019 8:34 am, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote:
Moy School, Clonfeacle Parish, Co. Tyrone, Examination Results 1808 



Another great file thanks to Len Swindley!!

Jim McKane!

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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Duffins in 1826 Ballyclog

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

HI Peggy,

The first column is just a convenient number.

A/R/P columns stand for acres, roods, perches - the area of the block of 
land/farm. 1 acre=4 roods=160 perches. A perch is just under 35 m^2 . 
and there are about 2½ acres to the hectare.


The £/s/D are the old currency: pounds/shillings/pence

the 1st ... 6th are the rate of tithe per acre, the rate, I presume, 
depending on the value/quality/productivity of the land.


For an explanation of tithes and who receives the 'cash', refer to the 
CoTI web. Len has some good info there.


This sort of info is really excellent in pinpointing where (and when) 
the farmer worked the land.


For locating the actual Townland I found the Ask About Ireland - 
Griffith site v. useful. http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/


They even have the old maps which show the actual farm within the 
townland and you can overlay the modern map and invoke a satelite image. 
Great stuff.


Hope this helps.

Gordon (no relation ;-))

On 4/09/2019 9:51 am, Peggy Gordon via CoTyroneList wrote:

Hello,
Today I went to the nearest family history centre to view the tithes 
for the Parish of Ballyclog in 1826. I was hoping to learn the exact 
location of their land in Kilsally. But that doesn't seem to be the 
case. The different columns seem to relate to the quality of the land 
and then possibly the quantity of land of that quality. The four 
Duffins are listed one after the other so presume are next to each 
other. There is James, Mark, Patrick and David. I know that Patrick's 
father was David and that James who emigrated had a brother Mark who 
also supposedly emigrated although I can't find him anywhere in the 
USA. Perhaps he didn't survive the trip. Or went elsewhere.

Can anyone explain how these records work?
Thank you
Peggy

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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Every Name Index - FULLY COMPLETED

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Hi Jim, much appreciated. Not to mention the enormous effort that Jim 
has put in coordinating this! Thanks Jim. Mind you, there are others in 
the background too who are too shy to confess their contributions. :)


Gordon

On 22/08/2019 5:11 am, Jim McKane wrote:



A small but dedicated, hard-working band of volunteers
came forward to help us create the Every Name Index of
almost _295,000 names_ in record time!


On behalf of the thousands of CoTyroneIreland.com users,
we wish to permanently acknowledge these generous people -


*Gordon Wilkinson*
*Barb Coulter*
*Kim Carson*
*Pat H*
*Ed McGeehan*
*Mary Jarvis*
*Lindsay Graham*
*Mary Purchase*
*Bonnie Jordan*
*Liona Harris*
*Jacque Newman*


This was a HUGE task but seeing the extremely high volume of use the 
Index receives it was well-worth the effort.

Without such dedicated people, CTI would not survive!

Best regards

Jim McKane
South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario


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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Walker Canoney

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Rhonda, there's a host of stuff on Australiana in Trove which is 
available online from the NLA (National Library Aust, Canberra). Maybe 
worth a look? Gordon


On 8/08/2019 10:11 am, Rhonda via CoTyroneList wrote:
My Great Grandmother Charlotte Elizabeth Walker born c1857 daughter of 
William Walker and Anne Davis came to Queensland Australia with her 
sister Anne (Ann) . They had a brother William who was with the Dublin 
Metropolitan Police Force.  Wondering if any information on William 
and Anne. They were at Canoney when Charlotte was born.

Thanks Rhonda Harris

 
	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Emigration to New Zealand

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Roberta, further to my earlier response below, I can now confirm that 
the /Aurora/ at least, sailed directly to NZ. 
<http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Bre02Whit-t1-body-d1-d1-d7.html>. 
Gordon


On 7/08/2019 10:55 am, Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList wrote:


Hi Roberta,

Did settler ships call into Australia before arriving in NZ? Maybe 
this will help:


My wife's great-great-grandfather, R.R.T. Davis & family arrived in NZ 
in Jan 1840 on the /Aurora./ From what I can find it appears, from 
travel times, , to have sailed directly from London (Gravesend) to 
Wellington (Port Nicholson) without calling in at Australia.


"/The “Aurora,” a barque of 550 tons, commanded by Captain Theophilus 
Heale, left Gravesend on the 18th September, 1839 and arrived at Port 
Nicholson on the 22nd January, 1840. She had 148 emigrants, and 21 
cabin passengers, on board. There were 25 married couples, 36 single 
persons and 40 children./"


https://www.geni.com/projects/New-Zealand-Settler-Ships-Aurora-1840/12905

Gordon

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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Emigration to New Zealand

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Hi Roberta,

Did settler ships call into Australia before arriving in NZ? Maybe this 
will help:


My wife's great-great-grandfather, R.R.T. Davis & family arrived in NZ 
in Jan 1840 on the /Aurora./ From what I can find it appears, from 
travel times, , to have sailed directly from London (Gravesend) to 
Wellington (Port Nicholson) without calling in at Australia.


"/The “Aurora,” a barque of 550 tons, commanded by Captain Theophilus 
Heale, left Gravesend on the 18th September, 1839 and arrived at Port 
Nicholson on the 22nd January, 1840. She had 148 emigrants, and 21 cabin 
passengers, on board. There were 25 married couples, 36 single persons 
and 40 children./"


https://www.geni.com/projects/New-Zealand-Settler-Ships-Aurora-1840/12905

Gordon

_

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Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon   Skype id: neredon
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[CoTyroneMailingList] A Query on the Ulster Plantation - a late arrival?

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Hi Listers,

I hope someone can add to my understanding of the Ulster Plantation. 
Family legend has it that my great-great grandfather, John Wilkinson 
(~1802-1878) was a plantationer from York, Yorkshire. He settled in 
Coolkill townland, near Eglish, about 10kn SSW from Dungannon (I have 
the actual farmland that he worked). The Griffith Index (1847-1864) has 
him leasing a tenement in 1860 from Viscount Powerscourt. Now my 
understanding is that the main Plantation of Tyrone was in 1609 under 
James I although activity continued off and on until around 1688. This 
doesn't agree with my family legend where John was supposedly the first 
plantationer of the family. Was there any plantation after 1688, 
specifically to Tyrone, in the late 18th and early 19th centuries? My 
GGgrandfather would have arrived in the early 19thC, if he was indeed a 
plantationer. Perhaps a private plantation?


On another track, is there any record of the names of plantationers, 
dates of arrival in Ireland and their home towns of origin?


Kind regards,

Gordon Wilkinson

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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI's New Look for Mobile Devices

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

HiJim, great move! But who pays for the hiring of the programmer? Do you 
need any help? Gordon


On 20/03/2019 9:42 pm, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote:

Hello Listers -

First, thanks so much for your continued support!
Without YOU there is no CTI!

Over the last several years as smartphone and tablet use has continued 
to grow, CTI receives about 50% of its usage from those users. 
Therefore, this means CTI MUST move to what is called a responsive 
design to handle all the various screen sizes. So, a few weeks ago, we 
hired a programmer to design software to enable converting the 
existing format.




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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 315, Issue 1

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

onelist@cotyroneireland.com>>

Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Do you get too many emails from the
    Mailing List? If so, ..
Message-ID: <006f01d4b6a8$04fc94d0$0ef5be70$@com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you Jim.



While I find some info useful my inbox overflows every morning with 
County Tyrone emails. I have stayed on the mailing list because of the 
following.




My Glasgow born maternal grandfather Edward Regan was of Irish parents 
(John and Margaret Regan). I have traced John Regans parents (and a 
number of Johns siblings). Parents Charles Regan and Mary Jane Wilson 
lived in Blackwatertown in the parish of Clonfeacle on the border of 
Tyrone and Armagh. Hence some records (marriage/birth etc) are Tyrone 
and some Armagh.




His mother's maiden names was Stewart and was from county Derry. Her 
mother's maiden name was Ralston (or another spelling).




I visited Blackwatertown last year.



Anyway it would be appreciated if you could adjust my setting to one 
email  per day as some info is useful to me and perhaps one day I will 
discover someone researching the same family.




Kind regards and thanks, Wayne Kedward

Sydney, Australia







From: CoTyroneList [mailto:cotyronelist-boun...@cotyroneireland.com 
<mailto:cotyronelist-boun...@cotyroneireland.com>] On Behalf Of Jim 
McKane via CoTyroneList

Sent: Monday, 28 January 2019 10:45 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
Cc: Jim McKane
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Do you get too many emails from the 
Mailing List? If so, ..




. here's a cure!



To get only ONE email per day, amend your subscription to the Digest 
mode; then you will only get one email per day which will contain all 
of the messages sent on that day.




If you have trouble doing this, just drop me a note as I can change it 
for you.




Thanks for your continued support,

Jim




Jim McKane

South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario

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--

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:34:06 +
From: Len Swindley <mailto:len_swind...@hotmail.com>>
To: "gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au 
<mailto:gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au>"
    <mailto:gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au>>, CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing 
List
    <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>>
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson <mailto:nere...@ozemail.com.au>>

Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Canadian Exiles to the Australian
    Colonies 1839-40
Message-ID:
    
<mailto:sl2p216mb05064e65811678aed853f85fe0...@sl2p216mb0506.korp216.prod.outlook.com>>


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Thanks Gordon. A sad end for the Buffalo. Yes, only free settlers in 
South Australia. No convicts.


Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
Windows 10



From: CoTyroneList <mailto:cotyronelist-boun...@cotyroneireland.com>> on behalf of Gordon 
Wilkinson via CoTyroneList <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>>

Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 10:07:38 AM
To: Iola Whiteside via CoTyroneList
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Canadian Exiles to the Australian 
Colonies 1839-40



The mention of the barque HMS Buffalo grabbed my attention. It's 
famous in Adelaide for bringing the first settlers here in 1836 (only 
free settlers in South Australia) and there's a grounded replica at 
Glenelg which has been a restaurant for many years. There wasn't much 
space on the HMS Buffalo, it's small, and it amazes me how it ever 
sailed the high seas. Must have been a rough trip! 
https://www.thebuffalo.com.au/hms-buffalo-original/


Gordon

On 28/01/2019 4:21 am, Iola Whiteside via CoTyroneList wrote:
May I recommend the book ?An Exile from Canada to Van Diemen?s Land? 
by Fred Landon.  Published by Longman Canada Limited, Don Mills. 
Canada. 1960.  It tells the story of Elijah Woodman.  Fascinating reading.

Iola Whiteside.

From: Len Swindley via 
CoTyroneList<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com 
<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>>

Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 7:08 PM
To: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com 
<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com><mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com 
<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com>>
Cc: Len Swindley<mailto:len_swind...@hotmail.com 
<mailto:len_swind...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Canadian Exiles to the Australian 
Colonies 1839-40


Hello Listers,

Rather recently, Ron McCoy referred to Canadian Exiles transported to 
the Australian colonies 1839-40; the two websites contained in this 
posting may be interestin

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Calls for memorial to Dungannon workhouse dead

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Jim, Thanks for sharing this. A poignant reminder of what life could be 
like barely 150 years ago. I haven't found if any of my Dungannon 
ancestors were in workhouses but I do have an ancestor who was matron of 
a fever hospital in Londonderry. She died after only 2 years in the job. 
Life was tough then. Gordon


On 28/01/2019 10:55 pm, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote:

If you had ancestors in the Dungannon area this may be of interest =

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-46813077?fbclid=IwAR2Ezc0RzUMq4U21vU3OsDsYbioJTY4f2kv38AGZlbM8aOrC2hk1isBd_ZU


Jim McKane
South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario

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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Canadian Exiles to the Australian Colonies 1839-40

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

The mention of the barque /HMS/ /Buffalo/ grabbed my attention. It's 
famous in Adelaide for bringing the first settlers here in 1836 (only 
free settlers in South Australia) and there's a grounded replica at 
Glenelg which has been a restaurant for many years. There wasn't much 
space on the /HMS/ /Buffalo/, it's small, and it amazes me how it ever 
sailed the high seas. Must have been a rough trip! 
https://www.thebuffalo.com.au/hms-buffalo-original/


Gordon

On 28/01/2019 4:21 am, Iola Whiteside via CoTyroneList wrote:
May I recommend the book “An Exile from Canada to Van Diemen’s Land” 
by Fred Landon.  Published by Longman Canada Limited, Don Mills. 
Canada. 1960.   It tells the story of Elijah Woodman.  Fascinating 
reading.

Iola Whiteside.
*From:* Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 


*Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2019 7:08 PM
*To:* CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com 


*Cc:* Len Swindley 
*Subject:* [CoTyroneMailingList] Canadian Exiles to the Australian 
Colonies 1839-40


Hello Listers,

Rather recently, Ron McCoy referred to Canadian Exiles transported to 
the Australian colonies 1839-40; the two websites contained in this 
posting may be interesting to researchers


There is a Fact Sheet http://www.guertin.info/patriots.pdf and a List 
of Canadian transportees despatched to the Australian colonies via the 
HMS/Buffalo/ 1839-40 comprising French Canadians from Lower Canada and 
American Patriots who had crossed the border 
http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/canadian.html


The Americans disembarked at Hobart, Van Diemen’s Land (now Tasmania) 
and the French Canadians from Lower Canada were sent to Sydney, New 
South Wales


Trust this is interest to CTI researchers in Canada

Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10



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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Maps - added Tyrone - Number of British Families 1622 Survey

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Yes ... 'Interesting'. I too use Chrome and have no problems. Clicking 
the link, I find myself at  
and running down the list to item #11 is "Tyrone - Number of British 
Families 1622 Survey" which takes me to 
 a map I find v. 
useful and will spend more time on it later. Gordon


On 27/01/2019 3:14 am, W A Carmen Ferguson via CoTyroneList wrote:
Interesting Katie; I get exactly the same thing when I click on " 
*Tyrone* - Multi-map provides good maps 
".  I get where I live 
in Ottawa Canada.


Carmen

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 11:34 AM Katie Green via CoTyroneList 
> wrote:


Hi Jim,

Very weird. When I click on maps, all I get is a map of where I
live here in Wisconsin. I tried it repeatedly.

Katie


On Jan 24, 2019, at 7:23 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList
mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote:

Maps - added Tyrone - Number of British Families 1622 Survey


Thanks to Howard Mathieson for another great addition to CTI!


Jim McKane
South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Hi Lyn,

another of my mother's sayings from my Autograph Book:

"/You may kiss beneath the mistletoe, or kiss beneath a rose,
/

/but the proper place to kiss a girl is just beneath her nose."/

//Gordon

On 15/01/2019 8:28 am, EVELYN CARDWELL via CoTyroneList wrote:
William Carleton was a local Tyrone writer whose work dates from the 
early to mid 19th century.  When I read his book "Traits and Stories 
of the Irish Peasantry"  I found  phrases I hadn't heard from 
childhood.  It was reprinted about 20-30 years ago in softback, so 
hopefully you may be able to track down a copy somewhere.  He wrote 
other  books as well, but these stories are relatively short and 
easily read.  There is also a Carleton Society in Tyrone, who are 
interested in all things connected with Carleton and run a very 
successful summer school each year.


Lyn


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[CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Hi Listers,

As a kid in Belfast, I was intrigued by so many Irish place names 
starting in Bally... Those who know tell me it's derived from the Gaelic 
'Baile na', meaning 'place of'. My mother would recite with a smile, the 
popular ditty of the time:


/If you weren't so Ballymena with your old Ballymoney, I'd buy a 
Ballycastle for my own Ballyholme./


My mother was one for such sayings, so much so you'd be forgiven if you 
thought she'd kissed the Blarney, but I doubt she was ever that far south.


There must be lots of these folk expressions which have fallen into 
disuse and now sadly lost.


Gordon

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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Life in Tyrone in the 1800s

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Elwyn,

The 'new' map of Europe would probably be out of date anyway, what with 
the rapid changes of country boundaries at the time! Interesting to note 
that school inspectors are not now used - at least in Australia - 
although I do recall their presence right up to early high school. A 
change for the better - or worse? The list is not that far removed from 
the present day events, with perhaps some emphases changed. ;)


Gordon


On 27/10/2018 12:50 AM, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList wrote:
Continuing the theme of trying to get a feel for life in Tyrone in the 
1800s, folk might be interested in details of early school records 
that they might find interesting.
Broadly, there are 2 sets of records held in PRONI. The first is 
attendance records. So that’s daily attendance for each pupil which 
can contain their age, townland, parents names and academic progress 
(or lack of it). The second set are files on the management of each 
school. These contain details of the building, it’s general condition, 
the teachers and their salaries, the results of school inspections and 
steps made to improve facilities.
PRONI has produced a list of all the attendance records it holds. They 
are filed by parish. So it’s easy enough to find out if there are any 
records for the school your ancestor may have attended, provided you 
know which parish and ideally which school they attended. Many records 
have not survived, and it’s worth knowing that most of PRONI's records 
are for the National Schools (which commonly started in the 1830s and 
1840s). There were plenty of other schools around the country run by 
churches and charitable bodies. Their records mostly have not made it 
into preservation.
The attendance records are held in the PRONI fond SCH. The list of 
schools can be found on the PRONI website. The school management 
records are filed under reference ED in PRONI. If you search the 
e-catalogue for ED plus the school name you should be able to find out 
whether they have a file for the school you are interested in. Note 
that both the attendance records and the school management records are 
not on-line. They are in paper format and so you need to go in person 
to view them (or get someone else do it for you).
I have attached a summary of events for a school in Co. Antrim to give 
you a flavour of the sort of information – some of it a bit surprising 
– that can be found in the management files. Common themes I have 
noted, having looked at quite a lot of these files:

1.Poor standards of education
2.Poor attendance records
3.Teachers failing to keep accurate attendance records. Sometimes not 
compiling them. In others increasing the attendance to justify a case 
for additional resources (eg an additional teacher). Every generation 
has probably fiddled management stats since the dawn of time, and they 
were certainly at it in the 1800s.

4.Drunkenness by teachers.
5.Immoral activities with the pupils
6.Teachers having difficulty getting the children to attend school, 
especially when there was work to be done on the farm (ie the summer 
months). Parents couldn’t see the benefits of education and felt the 
children were more useful working in the fields than at school.

7.Lack of resources to teach effectively.
*AUGHTERCLONEY National School, Co. Antrim *(PRONI: ED/6/2/2/1)**
This school opened in 1834 on a 99 year lease. The records up to 1855 
have been lost but this file covers from 1855 to 1896. Sad to say, 
there was a general theme of underperformance by the teachers over the 
years:

2.1.1857 “Manager to secure a more regular attendance of pupils.”
15.5.1857 Teacher P McGoldrick to comply with programme to observe 
cleanliness.
16.5.1857 48 males and 28 females enrolled; 21/11 actually in 
attendance; average ages 8/10; 10 pupils under 9 years of age.
2.11.1860 P McGoldrick admonished for neglecting to enter attendance 
before noon
17.10.1861 P. McGoldrick admonished not to smoke in schoolroom. Should 
he again be reported for doing so he will be depressed or dismissed.

22.2.1862 Deficiency of pupils in writing and arithmetic.
5.11.1862 Low proficiency of pupils. Map of Ireland to be provided
6.3.1863 £8 salary to Rose Duggan as workmistress
20.1.1865 Withdraw salary from Rose Duggan workmistress, average 
attendance being insufficient. Windows unsatisfactory. Provide a new 
map of Europe.
25.5.1866 Low proficiency in geography and arithmetic. Still waiting 
for a new map of Europe.
11.6.1869. Business to be commenced punctually in future. Map of 
Europe to be provided.
1871 Sale stock and map of Europe to be provided. Roof to be repaired 
and house whitewashed.

1871 Teachers salary was £24 p.a plus free schoolhouse.
21.3.1871 Salary to Patrick McGoldrick terminated 31.3.1871. Retiring 
gratuity granted. Patrick Canavan to take over from 1.4.1871.
1872 Manager informed that generally proficiency must be improved. 
Patrick Canavan admonished.
Manager admonished re low progress of infants class. 

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Spelling in Days of Yore!

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Hi Jim & Listers, A welcome warning. I may have mentioned before that I 
found an O'Hara spelt as Harrow. and McBeath as McBeth/McBith/Macbeth 
... MaCoulough is another one rendered variously. There are several 
examples in my ancestry. Need to think laterally when searching. ;-)


Gordon


On 15/09/2018 6:48 PM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote:
Hello Listers - as genealogists, we are very aware of phonetic 
spelling in days of yore and even today in the younger 
generations. Yesterday, I completed typing the list of names for 
Donaghcavey Cemetery where I found the best/worst examples of spelling 
issues with names.


One example - the firstname Owen was spelled as Oin, On, Own

It behoves us to remember this when we are searching old records.

Take a look for yourself - Inscriptions from Donaghcavey Cemetery (or 
Findonagh) 


Have a GREAT day
Jim

Jim McKane
South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario


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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Rick, I am a descendant of the Morrows from Armagh and unlikely to 
include the Morrows you mention. In your search, I would posit a typo(s) 
along the line somewhere. Many people at that time were not literate so 
others wrote down what they thought they heard. Irish accents and 
regional nuances would add to the confusion and blur the pronunciation.  
I've come across some weird mis-spellings. Take for instance, McBirth 
for McBeth - which was actually McBeath! then Harrow for O'Hara, also 
McCullough/McUllough/McCulough/McCulagh/McCullagh for the same family, 
and several others. It makes authentication a little more difficult, but 
one should always cross-check in any case. Be careful in drawing 
conclusions, as families tended to cluster in the same area and even 
name their offspring after a nearby relative, so take care, even some 
birth dates may be speculative as 1 January was too often used in place 
of the real date. Baptism and Christening dates are generally reliable. 
Cheers, Gordon



On 30/07/2018 2:31 AM, Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList wrote:

Hoping for some opinions here:
In the Kilskeery Parish 1826 Tithe Applotment listings, I find an 
Edward Morrison listed for Loughterush townland.
Using the Atavus search engine (Edward Morrison, Loughterush), I first 
see a record of a birth of Edward Morrison to Edward and Isabella 
Morrison in 1795. This is exciting.
Looking at the search results farther down the page, I find a series 
of births to an Edward /*Morrow*/ and wife Isabella (in Loughterush), 
ranging from 1781 to 1789.    Hmmm.
Going back to the Kilskeery Tithe Applotment listings, there are three 
Morrows listed (no Edwards), and none of them are in Loughterush.

I'm wondering: is it likely that there is a transcription error here?
I would greatly appreciate any opinions here.
Thanks!
Rick Smoll
-Original Message-
From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
Cc: Len Swindley ; Elwyn Soutter 


Sent: Tue, Jul 24, 2018 5:55 am
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland 
(kilskeery)


Many thanks for your insights, Elwyn
Len Swindley
Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10


*From:* CoTyroneList > on behalf of elwyn soutter via 
CoTyroneList >

*Sent:* Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:32:58 PM
*To:* CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
*Cc:* elwyn soutter
*Subject:* Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland 
(kilskeery)

Rick,

In the early 1600s, the English & Scottish undertakers (ie big 
landholders) were required to “Have ready in their houses at all times 
a convenient store of arms, wherewith they may furnish a competent 
number of men for their defence, which may be viewed and mustered 
every half year, according to the manner of England.”
We don’t really know to what extent each undertaker actually followed 
those instructions but where they did the local Muster Rolls could 
contain a list of every able bodied adult male in the given area. The 
complete absence of Morrisons in both Fermanagh & Tyrone (save for the 
2 in Strabane) would suggest to me they hadn’t arrived in big numbers 
at that time. There’s 329 of them in the 1901 Fermanagh & Tyrone 
census. None in Fermanagh in 1630 and just 2 in Tyrone. There were a 
lot of undertakers estates in those 2 counties. If Morrisons were 
present in significant numbers then you would expect more to show in 
the Muster Rolls, even allowing for some estates that didn't keep 
records..
I agree with Les that we can’t say for certain, but my feeling is they 
hadn’t arrived in Kilskeery by 1630.

Elwyn

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 
> wrote:


Variations in spelling are of little consequence Rick as much was
spelt phonetically in the past.
The Scots arrived in the North of Ireland in several waves
dependent upon political and religious conditions in Scotland.
Many settlers returned to their homeland as a result of the 1641
Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1641
 but
returned once peace had been restored. Following the Relief of the
Siege of Londonderry in 1689
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Derry
 and the defeat of
the forces of James II great numbers of new settlers arrived.
My thoughts are that it will not be possible to ascertain the date
of your forebears arrival in Kilskeery parish
Regards, Len Swindley
Sent from Mail 
for Windows 10

*From:* Rick Smoll mailto:rsmoll...@aim.com>>

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Index to the Tithe Applotment Book for Donaghmore Parish, Co. Donegal

[Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList]

Len,

(greetings from Adelaide)

You say that the site doesn't accept Table format - but your first email 
DID have the table format and made for easy cross-comparison of names. I 
use Thunderbird email client.


Thanks for your efforts

Gordon Wilkinson (Wilkinsons from Tyrone)


On 20/07/2018 12:40 PM, Len Swindley via CoTyroneList wrote:


Hello Listers; am resubmitting this post as the site does not accept 
submissions with tables formatted content and trust that the data can 
be interpreted easily:


Many thanks to Jim McKane for his appreciative response to my most 
recent submissions to CTI http://www.cotyroneireland.com/ : Indexes to 
Donaghmore, Co. Donegal Tithe Applotment Books 1815 and 1826. This 
exercise was undertaken to support my long-held assertion that a 
record of your forebear within a townland in Griffiths Valuation did 
not necessarily prove that this was the native townland of your 
emigrant forebear and the generations before him or her; there are 
many instances where this belief is not supported by referring to the 
tithe applotment books of the 1820s-30s where it is not possible to 
locate a previous generation of your family. But Donaghmore parish in 
Co. Donegal (just across the Tyrone/ Donegal county boundary) has two 
surviving tithe books - 1815 and 1826 and there are a great many 
instances where tithe payers recorded in 1815 have gone from the 
townland eleven years later in 1826. They may have been ejected from 
their holdings or perhaps emigrated. An excellent example is the 
townland of BALLYBUN:


BALLYBUN 1815 (18 tithepayers)

ALLEN Robt.

ALLEN Wm.

ANDERSON Jas.

CATTERSON John

CATTERSON Thos.

CATTERSON Widow

ELLIOT Robert

FAIR Edward

FLEMING Matthew

HONE Neal

HONE Redmond

KELLY Hugh

KELLY Laughlin

LONG Gustavus

McGOWAN Hugh

McMENAMON Patrick

MOORHEAD Robt.

NESBIT Jas.

BALLYBUN 1826 (16 tithepayers))

ALLEN Widow Elizabeth

ALLEN William

ANDERSON David

CATERSON James

CATERSON John

CATERSON Michael

CATERSON Thomas

ELLIOTT John

FAIR Edward

FLEMING Matthew

GALLAGHER Hugh

KELLY Hugh

KELLY Laughlin

LYNCH David

McMENAMIN Patrick

MOORHEAD Robert

The tithe applotment books are a most important resource and I urge 
all researchers to refer to them keeping an open mind that a family of 
the same name (or similar spelling) within adjacent townlands or a 
neighbouring parish may be related.


Good luck with your research everybody,

Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10



*From:* Jim McKane 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:53:10 PM
*To:* CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
*Subject:* CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Index to the Tithe 
Applotment Book for Donaghmore Parish, Co. Donegal
Index to the Tithe Applotment Book for Donaghmore Parish, Co. Donegal 
1815  - *986 
entries*


Index to the Tithe Applotment Book for Donaghmore Parish, Co. Donegal 
1826  - *1595 
entries*

*
*
*These records have also been added to the Tithe Search feature.*
*
*
*This is yet ANOTHER MASSIVE work by Len Swindley. *Can you imagine 
the time and effort required to decipher, transcribe, and format all 
the Townlands as well as almost 2,600 names


WOW, Thanks again, Len


Jim McKane
South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario


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