Re: man in the middle, SSL

2007-02-03 Thread Ivan Krstić
[I prefer to keep discussions on-list where possible. CCing the list.] Beryllium Sphere LLC wrote: > Bruce Schneier pointed out years ago that it's trivial for a virus > or Trojan to add a new trusted CA to the browser's list of trusted > roots. At least one "advertising support web ac

Re: man in the middle, SSL ... addenda

2007-02-03 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#26 man in the middle, SSL basically digital certificates were designed as the electronic equivalent for offline distribution of information ... paradigm left over from the letters of credit and letters of introduction out of the sailing ship days (and e

Re: man in the middle, SSL

2007-02-03 Thread Scott G Kelly
James Muir wrote: > I was reading a hacking blog today and came across this: > > http://www.darknet.org.uk/2007/02/odysseus-win32-proxy-telemachus-http-transaction-analysis/ > > >> Odysseus is a proxy server, which acts as a man-in-the-middle during >> an HTTP session. A typical HTTP proxy will

Re: man in the middle, SSL

2007-02-03 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
James Muir wrote: It is my understanding that SSL is engineered to resist mitm attacks, so I am suspicious of these claims. I wondered if someone more familiar with SSL/TLS could comment. Isn't in the case that the application doing SSL on the client should detect what this proxy server is d

Re: man in the middle, SSL

2007-02-03 Thread Erik Tews
Am Freitag, den 02.02.2007, 16:15 -0500 schrieb James Muir: > > You can find more and download Odysseus here: > > > > http://www.bindshell.net/tools/odysseus > > It is my understanding that SSL is engineered to resist mitm attacks, > so > I am suspicious of these claims. I wondered if someone m

Re: man in the middle, SSL

2007-02-03 Thread Ivan Krstić
James Muir wrote: > It is my understanding that SSL is engineered to resist mitm attacks, so > I am suspicious of these claims. I wondered if someone more familiar > with SSL/TLS could comment. > Isn't in the case that the application doing SSL on the client should > detect what this proxy server

What fresh hell is this? Laptop lockdown from afar

2007-02-03 Thread Saqib Ali
Alcatel-Lucent are planning to release a PCMCIA for mobile workers that can be accessed by IT Management even if the laptop is turned of. See more details and discussion at: http://www.xml-dev.com/lurker/message/20070201.174735.f19eca6b.en.html or http://tinyurl.com/2gbxb8 The can encrypt the HD

man in the middle, SSL

2007-02-03 Thread James Muir
I was reading a hacking blog today and came across this: http://www.darknet.org.uk/2007/02/odysseus-win32-proxy-telemachus-http-transaction-analysis/ Odysseus is a proxy server, which acts as a man-in-the-middle during an HTTP session. A typical HTTP proxy will relay packets to and from a cl

convenience vs risk -- US public elections by email and beyond

2007-02-03 Thread Ed Gerck
The social aspects of ease-of-use versus security are well-known. People would rather use something that works than something that is secure but hard to use. Ease-of-use trumps risks. What is less recognized, even though it seems intuitive, is that convenience (even though costlier and harder to u

deriving multiple keys from one passphrase

2007-02-03 Thread Travis H.
Hey, quick question. If one wants to have multiple keys, but for ease-of-use considerations want to only have the user enter one, is there a preferred way to derive multiple keys that, while not independent, are "computationally independent"? I was thinking of hashing the passphrase with a unique

RE: OT: SSL certificate chain problems

2007-02-03 Thread Geoffrey Hird
Victor Duchovni wrote: > On Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 12:47:18PM -0500, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: > > > That doesn't make sense to me -- the end-of-chain (server or client) > > certificate won't be signed by _both_ the old and new root, > I wouldn't > > think (does x.509 even make this possible)? > >

Re: length-extension and Merkle-Damgard hashes

2007-02-03 Thread Amir Herzberg
Travis H. wrote: So I was reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle-Damgard It seems to me the length-extension attack (given one collision, it's easy to create others) is not the only one, though it's obviously a big concern to those who rely on it. This attack thanks to Schneier: If

RE: Private Key Generation from Passwords/phrases

2007-02-03 Thread Anton Stiglic
Bill Stewart wrote: >Salt is designed to address a couple of threats >- Pre-computing password dictionaries for attacking wimpy passwords >... Yes indeed. The rainbow-tables style attacks are important to protect against, and a salt does the trick. This is why you can find rainbow tables for Lan

RE: Intuitive cryptography that's also practical and secure.

2007-02-03 Thread Anton Stiglic
I am not convinced that we need intuitive cryptography. Many things in life are not understood by the general public. How does a car really work: most people don't know but they still drive one. How does a microwave oven work? People don't need to understand the details, but the high level conce

Re: OT: SSL certificate chain problems

2007-02-03 Thread Victor Duchovni
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 01:57:04PM +1300, Peter Gutmann wrote: > Victor Duchovni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >What I don't understand is how the old (finally expired) root helps to > >validate the new unexpired root, when a verifier has the old root and the > >server presents the new root in

Re: OT: SSL certificate chain problems

2007-02-03 Thread Peter Gutmann
Victor Duchovni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >What I don't understand is how the old (finally expired) root helps to >validate the new unexpired root, when a verifier has the old root and the >server presents the new root in its trust chain. You use the key in the old root to validate the self-sig

Re: Intuitive cryptography that's also practical and secure.

2007-02-03 Thread Leichter, Jerry
| > | | > | ...There's an obvious cryptographic solution, of course: publish the | > | hash of any such documents. Practically speaking, it's useless. | > | Apart from having to explain hash functions to lawyers, judges, | > | members of Congress, editorial page writers, bloggers, and talk | > |

Re: Intuitive cryptography that's also practical and secure.

2007-02-03 Thread Matt Blaze
On Jan 30, 2007, at 16:41, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:10:47 -0500 (EST) "Leichter, Jerry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | | ...There's an obvious cryptographic solution, of course: publish the | hash of any such documents. Practically speaking, it's useless. | Apart

Re: Intuitive cryptography that's also practical and secure.

2007-02-03 Thread Steven M. Bellovin
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:10:47 -0500 (EST) "Leichter, Jerry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > | > | ...There's an obvious cryptographic solution, of course: publish the > | hash of any such documents. Practically speaking, it's useless. > | Apart from having to explain hash functions to lawyers, ju

Re: Intuitive cryptography that's also practical and secure.

2007-02-03 Thread Leichter, Jerry
| ...I agree with you about intuitive cryptography. What you're | complaining about is, in effect, "Why Johnny Can't Hash". There was | another instance of that in today's NY Times. In one of the court | cases stemming from the warrantless wiretapping, the Justice | Department is, in the holy na

Re: Intuitive cryptography that's also practical and secure.

2007-02-03 Thread Andrea Pasquinucci
On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 05:58:16PM -0500, Matt Blaze wrote: * * It occurs to me that the lack of secure, practical crypto primitives and * protocols that are intuitively clear to ordinary people may be why * cryptography has had so little impact on an even more important problem * than psychic deb

Chaos on a chip

2007-02-03 Thread Sean McGrath
Original Message Subject: Physics News Update 810 PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 810 30 January 2007 by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, Turner Brinton, and Davide Castelvecchi www.aip.org/pnu [...] CH

RE: length-extension and Merkle-Damgard hashes

2007-02-03 Thread Jeremy Hansen
See Section 3.3 of Coron, Dodis, Malinaud and Puniya's "A New Design Criteria for Hash-Functions". They address this and several other problems with the M-D construction in this paper submitted to the 2005 NIST Hash Workshop. (http://cs.nyu.edu/~puniya/papers/nist.pdf) Jeremy > -Original Mess

Re: data under one key, was Re: analysis and implementation of LRW

2007-02-03 Thread Allen
Travis H. wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 03:28:50PM -0800, Allen wrote: If 4 gigs is right, would it then be records to look for to break the code via birthday attacks would be things like seismic data, In case anyone else couldn't parse this, he means "the amount of encrypted material neces

Re: News.com: IBM donates new privacy tool to open-source Higgins

2007-02-03 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
John Gilmore wrote: http://news.com.com/IBM+donates+new+privacy+tool+to+open-source/2100-1029_3-6153625.html IBM donates new privacy tool to open-source By Joris Evers Staff Writer, CNET News.com Published: January 25, 2007, 9:00 PM PST ... For example, when making a purchase online, b

Re: Private Key Generation from Passwords/phrases

2007-02-03 Thread Alexander Klimov
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: > Beyond that, 60K doesn't make that much of a difference even with a > traditional /etc/passwd file -- it's only an average factor of 15 > reduction in the attacker's workload. While that's not trivial, it's > also less than, say, a one-character in