Re: [css-d] no background-color with your color warnings

2006-06-16 Thread David Dorward
On 16/06/06, David Hucklesby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The default value for background-color when none is defined is transparent, allowing any background set on an enclosing element to shine through. The reason the validator warns you about having a background-color defined with your (text)

[css-d] List style colour

2006-06-16 Thread Brendan Grossman
Just a quick question... Is it possible to colour a list's bullets and not the text? I can get around it by using span or something within each li, but I was hoping I wouldn't need to... Cheers Brendan __ css-discuss [EMAIL

Re: [css-d] Relative positioning and widths

2006-06-16 Thread Brendan Grossman
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Seehouse Sent: Friday, 16 June 2006 3:08 AM To: Brendan Grossman Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org Subject: Re: [css-d] Relative positioning and widths On 6/14/06, Brendan Grossman [EMAIL

[css-d] Minior browser inconsistencies

2006-06-16 Thread Andreas Håkansson
Hi, I'm working on making a fairly simple css layout and have a couple of small issues that I need to resolve before it works in Explorer, Firefox, Netscape and Opera. I'm pretty confident that theres not much work needed to get it right and I'm hoping to get some pointers on how to fix it.

Re: [css-d] List style colour

2006-06-16 Thread Bob Easton
Brendan Grossman wrote: Is it possible to colour a list's bullets and not the text? I can get around it by using span or something within each li, but I was hoping I wouldn't need to... Not today. Maybe with CSS3 sometime in the future, but not now. It's a shame to have to use

Re: [css-d] no background-color with your color warnings

2006-06-16 Thread Richard Allsebrook
Actually, its the exact opposite. Um, no its not. The validator doesn't take the cascade into account. div.test { background: #FFF; color: #000; } div.test a { color: #C00; } will produce a warning on the div.test a {} rule even though the red hyperlink will only

Re: [css-d] List style colour

2006-06-16 Thread Richard Allsebrook
Is it possible to colour a list's bullets and not the text? One method is to use a small bullet image as the background for the li: li { background: url(my_bullet.gif) no-repeat top left; padding-left: 20px; } The padding pushes the text away from the bullet image. --

Re: [css-d] Centering a CSS positioned design

2006-06-16 Thread css
On Thu, Jun 15, 2006 at 12:21:04PM +0200, Els wrote: Just make a div with id=container to hold all that's inside body now, give it position:relative, and all that was previously absolute positioned to the viewport, will now be relative to the container. (no need to change any of the

Re: [css-d] Centering a CSS positioned design

2006-06-16 Thread css
On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 12:16:03PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I've tried that. I've also used the container to give a background colour of white for the content area, where the main body background will be grey. This hasn't been entirely successful; I guess I have to set a fixed

[css-d] Gap in Opera

2006-06-16 Thread Ian Young
Developing a simple two column site with header div. Renders ok in FF and IE6, but in Opera there are gaps/whitespace at top and bottom of container. Can't see why this should be. http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/vensite/test.html Obviously something simple but cannot see what it is.

Re: [css-d] Gap in Opera

2006-06-16 Thread Chris Hughes
Ian Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Developing a simple two column site with header div. Renders ok in FF and IE6, but in Opera there are gaps/whitespace at top and bottom of container. Whatever the reason, the gaps are there in Opera 8.x, but gone in Opera 9b. -- Chris Hughes Reality is that

Re: [css-d] Centering a CSS positioned design

2006-06-16 Thread Kim Finleyson
Ok, I've tried that. I've also used the container to give a background colour of white for the content area, where the main body background will be grey. This hasn't been entirely successful; I guess I have to set a fixed height, as not setting one meant the white background wasn't seen,

[css-d] New IE7 hack/filter

2006-06-16 Thread Alex Robinson
Given this HTML: div class=ie7-target-class ... /div and this CSS: * div[class^=ie7-target-class] { background: #ff; } body .ie7-target-class { background: #ff; } The resulting div shows red in IE7 but shows blue in all other browsers. This is due to the fuzzy specificity bug

Re: [css-d] Centering a CSS positioned design

2006-06-16 Thread Els
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 12:16:03PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I've tried that. I've also used the container to give a background colour of white for the content area, where the main body background will be grey. This hasn't been entirely successful; I guess I

Re: [css-d] no background-color with your color warnings

2006-06-16 Thread David Dorward
On 16/06/06, Richard Allsebrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, its the exact opposite. Um, no its not. The validator doesn't take the cascade into account. Please read what I said - you have to account for the user style sheet and browser default stylesheet too. div.test {

[css-d] Image breakout at bottom Div

2006-06-16 Thread Trevor Boult
Hi All, Brian Cummiskey pointed out to me the other day on this page: http://www.tboult.co.uk/dev/ag/crops/wheat.cfm That the image was breaking out of its div at the bottom. Brian suggested a clear both block element which I have just implemented and its OK in FireFox but not IE (Arrrgh)

Re: [css-d] List style colour

2006-06-16 Thread David Laakso
Brendan Grossman wrote: Just a quick question... Is it possible to colour a list's bullets and not the text? I can get around it by using span or something within each li, but I was hoping I wouldn't need to... Cheers Brendan Yes, I believe so. The ul will hold the second foreground

[css-d] Dynamic CSS bar graph

2006-06-16 Thread Ben Liu
Hello All, I've developed a simple online bar graph for a client. The page queries a database, tallies the total number of orders coming in from each US state and then draws a series of bar graphs to represent the number of orders. The report works fine expect when the user tries to print it. The

Re: [css-d] Centering a CSS positioned design

2006-06-16 Thread css
On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 02:38:00PM +0200, Els wrote: How did you colour your page before it was centered? The problem with absolute positioning, is that you are taking the elements out of the normal flow, thus leaving its parent virtually empty. And an empty container doesn't gain any

[css-d] Two column IE6 800x600

2006-06-16 Thread Ian Young
http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/vensite/test.html http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/vensite/includes/styles.css Seems to work reasonably well across browsers with exception of IE6 at 800x600 where right column slips under left column I have used percentages to define columns. would

Re: [css-d] Dynamic CSS bar graph

2006-06-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On 6/16/06, Ben Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I've developed a simple online bar graph for a client. The page queries a database, tallies the total number of orders coming in from each US state and then draws a series of bar graphs to represent the number of orders. The report

Re: [css-d] Centering a CSS positioned design

2006-06-16 Thread Els
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [extend background colour to bottom of page] It would do that automagically if it weren't for the absolute positioning. Yep. So is my choice just to reposition everything with relative positioning? To give an element position:relative, means to give it a position

Re: [css-d] Two column IE6 800x600

2006-06-16 Thread Nick Daverin
Ian Well, for one thing you have the table in the left column set to 560 and the image in the right column has a width of 300... That makes it a bit bigger than 800 right there. -Nick Ian Young wrote: http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/vensite/test.html

Re: [css-d] Dynamic CSS bar graph

2006-06-16 Thread Ben Liu
Hi Christian, Thanks for the help. I think I can do away with the containment div around the bar graph img since I have another containment div already performing some other functions. Any ideas on what is more correct: img src=bargraph.gif height=? some variable script here ? / -OR- img

[css-d] Panel layout problems

2006-06-16 Thread Stephen Moretti
I've got a home page that has two promo panels on the side of the site and another panel for the content area. I've got each of the panels to display correctly in their own right, but on the page the layout is all over the place. It should be 2 small panels on the left, one on top of the other,

Re: [css-d] Dynamic CSS bar graph

2006-06-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On 6/16/06, Ben Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Christian, Thanks for the help. I think I can do away with the containment div around the bar graph img since I have another containment div already performing some other functions. Any ideas on what is more correct: img src=bargraph.gif

Re: [css-d] Two column IE6 800x600

2006-06-16 Thread Ian Young
Ian Well, for one thing you have the table in the left column set to 560 and the image in the right column has a width of 300... That makes it a bit bigger than 800 right there. -Nick Yes, just noticed that. That's what I get for copying from client's site. Have changed the table size but the

[css-d] Starting over... still have height issues ;(

2006-06-16 Thread css
Sorry for yet another question. I really want to nail this. I have given up trying to make my container work with absolutely positioned items and used relative positioning. Now my container has a nice white background and contains everything nicely. Except it obviously thinks something is

Re: [css-d] Starting over... still have height issues ;(

2006-06-16 Thread css
On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 04:06:23PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And some of my items are in a different place on different pages. Despite being the same size and in fact the same items. I would add I am checking in Firefox. IE is showing them in utterly different places, not just one or two

Re: [css-d] Starting over... still have height issues ;(

2006-06-16 Thread Nick Daverin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry for yet another question. I really want to nail this. I have given up trying to make my container work with absolutely positioned items and used relative positioning. Now my container has a nice white background and contains everything nicely. Except it

Re: [css-d] Two column IE6 800x600

2006-06-16 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Ian Young wrote: http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/vensite/test.html Yes, just noticed that. That's what I get for copying from client's site. Have changed the table size but the right column slips completely under left column at 800x600. FF, Netscape and Opera are all good at

Re: [css-d] no background-color with your color warnings

2006-06-16 Thread David Dorward
On 16/06/06, Richard Allsebrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I said was The validator doesn't take the cascade into account - and that is true. No, it isn't. An author rule (rule 1) sets a colour, but not a background colour. Another author rule (rule 2) sets a background colour that (due to

Re: [css-d] Starting over... still have height issues ;(

2006-06-16 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Except it obviously thinks something is larger than it is... for it doesn't stop at the bottom of the items, so the white container goes on too far down the page... You set container height to 650px. If you get rid of this you won't have extra space at bottom. -- Joel Goldstick

Re: [css-d] Starting over... still have height issues ;(

2006-06-16 Thread css
On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 12:01:01PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You set container height to 650px. If you get rid of this you won't have extra space at bottom. No, I won't have enough halfway down either! I ended up deciding to fix the container height because I couldn't find another

Re: [css-d] Two column IE6 800x600

2006-06-16 Thread Ian Young
http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/vensite/test.html Yes, just noticed that. That's what I get for copying from client's site. Have changed the table size but the right column slips completely under left column at 800x600. FF, Netscape and Opera are all good at 800x600,

Re: [css-d] CSS Layout

2006-06-16 Thread Ed Seehouse
On 6/16/06, Debra Kappmeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.viterbo.edu/proofs/CSSTest/index3.html There's just a couple of problems You have a fair whack of errors in your html code. CSS is intended to work with valid html and errors in your html can really mess things up. You also

Re: [css-d] CSS Layout

2006-06-16 Thread Ben Liu
Hi Debra, I might be wrong about this but I think the reason that extra gap exists between the 4 and the A is because margin is being added twice, once in the ul and once for the li that contains it. I might be wrong about this because browsers collapse margins between elements sometimes. A rule

Re: [css-d] CSS Layout

2006-06-16 Thread Ben Liu
Oops, sorry. Now that I look at your html, that CSS rule won't work because you don't actually have the child UL inside LI tags. Your code looks like this: snip ul liTo oversee all university academic policies liTo

Re: [css-d] CSS Layout

2006-06-16 Thread Ben Liu
Oh and you are missing a lot of /li tags too, perhaps Ed's recommendation should be addressed first, you seem to have some html code to fix first before the CSS can be addressed. On 6/16/06, Ben Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oops, sorry. Now that I look at your html, that CSS rule won't work

Re: [css-d] Panel layout problems

2006-06-16 Thread David Laakso
Stephen Moretti wrote: I've got each of the panels to display correctly in their own right, but on the page the layout is all over the place...] I'm at my wits end Tell me about it :-P . and have started going around in circles and read so many different web sites that my head is spinning.

Re: [css-d] CSS Layout

2006-06-16 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Debra Kappmeyer wrote: So, I took Dave's friendly advice to learn CSS layout! and am trying to do that and attempting my very first (so keep that in mind) CSS layout. It's looking alright :-) Just the usual IE-bugs in need of fixing... and a couple of human bugs that should be corrected ;-)

[css-d] Font Sizing: Why Is Firefox Different?

2006-06-16 Thread Anthony Baker
Hey Folks, Am wondering if someone has any info on this for me. Have been looking to different font sizing methods and decided to go with a method suggested by Dan Cederholm (as I recall) )where the font size is defined in the BODY tag and then percentages are used to increase or decrease the

[css-d] CSS Base url for image property values?

2006-06-16 Thread Stephen Cunliffe
Hi all, Suppose a site has the following structure: www \things \stuff \other \neat \cool In the ideal scenario, I'd like to reference one css file site.css that sits in the root directory. This works fine, and it will work if I link it in any page,

Re: [css-d] CSS Layout

2006-06-16 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Follow-up... http://www.viterbo.edu/proofs/CSSTest/index3.html The following margin-left/padding-left will probably work better and more consistently across browser-land... div#content ol, div#content ul {font-size .8em; margin-top: 1em; line-height: 1.4; margin-left: 0; padding-left: 18px; }

Re: [css-d] Font Sizing: Why Is Firefox Different?

2006-06-16 Thread Ed Seehouse
On 6/16/06, Anthony Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have been looking to different font sizing methods and decided to go with a method suggested by Dan Cederholm (as I recall) )where the font size is defined in the BODY tag and then percentages are used to increase or decrease the size. EMs

[css-d] Hyphens in class names

2006-06-16 Thread Denise
First post to the list ... I've been pulling my hair out trying to get a simple div of menu links to center on a page using class=Adm-Menu. On a lark, I removed the hyphen from the name and poof all was well. I found it odd that a hyphenated class name applied to h1 worked fine, but not for a

Re: [css-d] Font Sizing: Why Is Firefox Different?

2006-06-16 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Anthony Baker wrote: Have been looking to different font sizing methods and decided to go with a method suggested by Dan Cederholm (as I recall) )where the font size is defined in the BODY tag and then percentages are used to increase or decrease the size. EMs are used for line height.

Re: [css-d] Font Sizing: Why Is Firefox Different?

2006-06-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On 6/16/06, Anthony Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Folks, Am wondering if someone has any info on this for me. Have been looking to different font sizing methods ... Does anyone have a favorite method? I'll give you my favorite, which seems to work allright. html { font-size:100.01%;

Re: [css-d] Font Sizing: Why Is Firefox Different?

2006-06-16 Thread Jade Rauenzahn
Have you ever tried using ems for font-sizing? I've always had very good luck with cross-browser compatability if I set my font sizes in ems. 1em is = 12px font, while .8em is equivalent to 10px. The code is simply: font-size: .8em;

Re: [css-d] CSS Base url for image property values?

2006-06-16 Thread Nick Daverin
Stephen Cunliffe wrote: snip if one of the styles, has something like: div.foo{ background-image: url(pic.png); } Then it only works, when loaded from the root directory... So, the question is, outside of defining several duplicate css files (with different paths), or copying the

Re: [css-d] Hyphens in class names

2006-06-16 Thread cj
i use hyphens all the time in my css, for headers and divs as well as everything else. just to make sure i'm not blowing steam, i made a tiny little test page with a class of test-hyphen on an h1 and a div and both worked fine in ff/ie/op. !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0

Re: [css-d] CSS Layout (Ben Liu)

2006-06-16 Thread Chaim
Hi Ben, Try using borders instead of background color - They print, and if there's no content in your li's, it should work. -Chaim __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing

[css-d] Extending lines off the edge of the browser

2006-06-16 Thread Jason Preston
I don't know how many of you are familiar with Wordpress, and more specifically the theme K2, but since I know next to nothing about CSS I built my site starting with those two installed and just customizing the stylesheet. I've been trying to get the two lines in my menu bar (they're 1px

Re: [css-d] Hyphens in class names

2006-06-16 Thread Denise
Thanks. It may have more to do with the template engine for this CMS. I hadn't had issues with hyphens before, but thought I ought to check here. Denise -Original Message- From: cj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 3:18 PM To: Denise Cc: css-d Subject: Re: [css-d]

Re: [css-d] Font Sizing: Why Is Firefox Different?

2006-06-16 Thread David Laakso
Anthony Baker wrote: Am wondering if someone has any info on this for me. I think you have entered the twilight zone of personal opinion :-P . Not to mention font wars that some of us love, but are a no/no on this list. There are numerous pages on font-sizing in the list wiki. If you want a

Re: [css-d] Extending lines off the edge of the browser

2006-06-16 Thread John Sico
Jason - Does this work? #page { background: white; text-align: left; margin: 0 auto; position: relative; /* The entire template's width is set in this class. */ border: 0px solid #ddd; border-top: none; } I just removed the padding

Re: [css-d] Extending lines off the edge of the browser

2006-06-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On 6/16/06, Jason Preston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know how many of you are familiar with Wordpress, and more specifically the theme K2, but since I know next to nothing about CSS I built my site starting with those two installed and just customizing the stylesheet. I've been trying

Re: [css-d] Extending lines off the edge of the browser

2006-06-16 Thread Jason Preston
The easiest way to do it would be to have the header in a separate container. Currently everything is in #page and #page has a fixed width and it has auto margins. No way to fight with that. If you moved the #header out of the #page div and put it on top, by itself, it could have 100% width.

[css-d] Absolute positioning of a legend in a form (works in IE but not in FF)

2006-06-16 Thread Bernat Lleonart
Hello, I want to position a legend in a form. I've made te fieldset position: relative, and the legend position: absolute. It works in IE, but not in FF. Any idea where is the problem? Thanks Here's the code: ** !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN

Re: [css-d] CSS Base url for image property values?

2006-06-16 Thread Els
Stephen Cunliffe wrote: Suppose a site has the following structure: www \things \stuff \other \neat \cool In the ideal scenario, I'd like to reference one css file site.css that sits in the root directory. This works fine, and it will work if I link

Re: [css-d] Hyphens in class names

2006-06-16 Thread Els
Denise wrote: First post to the list ... I've been pulling my hair out trying to get a simple div of menu links to center on a page using class=Adm-Menu. On a lark, I removed the hyphen from the name and poof all was well. I found it odd that a hyphenated class name applied to h1 worked

Re: [css-d] Problem with heading

2006-06-16 Thread francky
Joanne wrote: I'm putting together a site and am having trouble with the heading looking right. In Firefox, it's correct. In IE, there is a small gap (so it looks like a small white line) to the right of the #header Hi Joanne, This is due to the background-color #FF of the #main-div. Can

Re: [css-d] Extending lines off the edge of the browser

2006-06-16 Thread Jason Preston
This may be the best way to go about it - just substituting this code in gave me: http://www.flickergaming.net/testblog/ I need to center the rest of the page and bring the admin tab back into view. Where specifically do I need to plug in some padding to get that done? Thanks, - Jason

Re: [css-d] New IE7 hack/filter

2006-06-16 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Alex Robinson wrote: http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/hacks/fuzzyspecificity A bit too much back and forth for my taste :-) Would be nice to know if it works though. Disclaimer: just because you can hack IE7, doesn't mean you should: a) the IE7 team will probably fix this (though who can say

Re: [css-d] Image breakout at bottom Div

2006-06-16 Thread francky
Trevor Boult wrote: Hi All, Brian Cummiskey pointed out to me the other day on this page: http://www.tboult.co.uk/dev/ag/crops/wheat.cfm That the image was breaking out of its div at the bottom. Brian suggested a clear both block element which I have just implemented and its OK in FireFox

Re: [css-d] Absolute positioning of a legend in a form (works in IE but not in FF)

2006-06-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On 6/16/06, Bernat Lleonart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I want to position a legend in a form. I've made te fieldset position: relative, and the legend position: absolute. It works in IE, but not in FF. Any idea where is the problem? Did you try: legend {

[css-d] Strange IE Problem (bumping layout down on refresh)

2006-06-16 Thread Cooper Mor
I can't verify this (because I'm on a Mac) but the client says when they go to the site (http://dallasxtreme.com) it works fine the first time, but when they refresh it shows this- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/coopermor/scrnsht.jpg Any idea what could be causing this? Again the URL is

Re: [css-d] Strange IE Problem (bumping layout down on refresh)

2006-06-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On 6/17/06, Cooper Mor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't verify this (because I'm on a Mac) but the client says when they go to the site (http://dallasxtreme.com) it works fine the first time, but when they refresh it shows this- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/coopermor/scrnsht.jpg

Re: [css-d] Strange IE Problem (bumping layout down on refresh)

2006-06-16 Thread Ingo Chao
Christian Montoya wrote: Again the URL is http://dallasxtreme.com I get that on first load in IE 6. Maybe there is a margin that is collapsing in most browsers but not in IE? The gap is about 18 to 20px. I think you have to set margin:0 on form in IE. Ingo --

[css-d] Absolute positioning of a legend in a form (works in IE but not in FF)

2006-06-16 Thread Bernat Lleonart
Hi, On 6/17/06, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you try: legend { position: absolute; top: -1em; display:block; } ? I've just tried it but it doesn't

Re: [css-d] Strange IE Problem (bumping layout down on refresh)

2006-06-16 Thread David Laakso
Cooper Mor wrote: I can't verify this (because I'm on a Mac) but the client says when they go to the site (http://dallasxtreme.com) it works fine the first time, but when they refresh it shows this- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/coopermor/scrnsht.jpg Any idea what could be causing

Re: [css-d] Absolute positioning of a legend in a form (works in IE but not in FF)

2006-06-16 Thread Ingo Chao
Bernat Lleonart wrote: Hello, I want to position a legend in a form. I've made te fieldset position: relative, and the legend position: absolute. It works in IE, but not in FF. see the Firefox installation folder, /res/forms.css legend { position: static ! important; float: none

Re: [css-d] Strange IE Problem (bumping layout down on refresh) - dallasx

2006-06-16 Thread Felix Miata
On 06/06/16 18:30 (GMT-0400) Cooper Mor apparently typed: I can't verify this (because I'm on a Mac) but the client says when they go to the site (http://dallasxtreme.com) it works fine the first time, but when they refresh it shows this-

[css-d] minor IE hover problem

2006-06-16 Thread Andy Mosmiller
I coded this page a while ago and thought I had the small pictures with the borders hovering properly in IE, but checking today I find I am mistaken. http://www.kipke.com/events.html http://www.kipke.com/kipke.css http://www.kipke.com/kipkeIE.css As you may notice, the border color does change

Re: [css-d] Font Sizing: Why Is Firefox Different?

2006-06-16 Thread Felix Miata
On 06/06/16 14:49 (GMT-0400) Jade Rauenzahn apparently typed: I've always had very good luck with cross-browser compatability if I set my font sizes in ems. 1em is = 12px font, while .8em is equivalent to 10px. In most browsers, 'html, body {font-size: 1em}' produces 12pt text, not 12px text.