Re: [darktable-user] development question

[William Ferguson]

Right now in darkroom there is a small copy(?) of the image displayed in
the upper left corner.  As you zoom a box appears and you can move it
around to change what is displayed on the main image window?  When you make
changes, they are reflected back to the small image.  Is it possible to
take the small image and put it on a second monitor full size, or "borrow"
the code that drives the small image and adapt it to a second monitor?

Just a thought...

Bill

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 1:47 PM, Tobias Ellinghaus  wrote:

> Am Sonntag, 18. März 2018, 18:27:22 CET schrieb Robert Bieber:
> > Interesting, could you link me to that old discussion, by any chance?
> > Or do you remember the email title?  I've heard recently that Lightroom
> > has some really useful dual-window functionality as well that works
> > quite a bit differently from the detachable panels I was working on, so
> > I've been meaning to look into how they do it as well.
>
> It was on IRC, logs pasted below. At least the ones I could quickly find.
>
> > -Robby
>
>Is there any plan for dual-head support in Darktable? I've
> read the
> old statements on the wiki about the difficulties caused by color
> management
> among monitors, but it could still be an option offered to the user with a
> warning on whether he should trust colors in the second monitor or not.
>Dual-monitor support in raw processing can still be very
> useful for
> much more than colors, including exposure, contrast, clarity, vignetting,
> cropping, sharpness, overall field of view and composition...
>I find it very hard to step back from Lightroom just
> because of this
> feature, I have two monitors and can only use one in Darktable. Processing
> raws implies pressing Tab all the time to show the picture and evaluate
> previous modifications. Displaying portrait picture in full is also not
> very
> good even with tab, while I could use my 90°-rotated secondary monitor for
> this. Feels a bit like a waste, even with imperfect colors.
>I'm sure I'm not the only one to have two monitors in the
> Darktable
> userbase and to see benefits in a secondary display, even with unreliable
> colors.
>   i can't really envision what a dual head gui would look like. just
> all
> the sliders on one monitor and the image on the 2nd?
>   Kabouik: ^
>   or do you want to see the image in a 2nd window, so you have it
> twice?
>No houz, actually what most people who requested it so far
> would
> look for something very simple, like Lightroom currently provides: the
> second
> monitor would just show your current picture being edited in darkroom,
> almost
> in fullscreen, with simple tools like zoom in/out, 1:1, adapt to screen,
> and
> maybe a before/after comparison. That's all.
>   1) i never used lightroom. 2) when the 2nd screen shows the image
> with
> extra controls, does the 1st screen show the image, too?
>It would allow one to edit a picture with all the sliders
> and
> plugins on one screen (and therefore a small view of the image because half
> the screen estate is reserved to plugins/tools), and a preview of the final
> result in large size in the second monitor. It gives a very noticeable use
> to
> a screen otherwise not used at all during the process.
>Yes the 1st screen shows the image as well, let me check
> if I can
> find screenshots (currently on Linux so I can't run LR myself)
>   when zomming/panning one image view, does the other one follow? or
> are
> they independent?
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/vangeles/10761080605/
> here's one
> example with one monitor in portrait (this is my case, although I do it the
> other way: controls on the landscape screen, preview on the portrait
> screen)
>It actually proves *really* useful one you tried it,
> honestly even
> with the steep learning curve of Darktable, this is by far what holds me
> back
> the most (even though I really am trying to move to Darktable)
>They are independent houz
>That's one of the things that make it really useful
>You can see changes in 1:1 in one screen and keep an eye
> on the
> whole image at the same time. Really useful even with imperfect colors
> matching between screens (like sharpness, details, noise...)
>   that would require substantial changes to dt i assume
>   or at least be quite slow
>Would it be so slow? I never saw any performance impact
> with or
> without the dual head feature in LR
>And my computer is not very powerful.
>   no idea how lr works, i was just talking about dt
>   we would have to compute everything twice
>I have no skills in coding/dev so forgive me if I was
> oversimplying
> the thing, but isn't it just a cloned view of the current image display in
> Darktable?
>Darktable currently resizes the view (or not) depending on
> the zoom
> level, but it would still be the same image with the same processing, just
> displayed twice in two 

Re: [darktable-user] What does this half of memory thing actually mean

[Henkka]

Ach, thanks for clarifying.


Remco Viëtor kirjoitti 18.3.2018 klo 20.02:

No, it won't eat half your RAM all the time, it will just allow any module to
use*up to*  half the available RAM. How much is actually used will depend on
the module, and on the image you are editing.




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Re: [darktable-user] What does this half of memory thing actually mean

[Remco Viëtor]

On dimanche 18 mars 2018 17:29:32 CET Henkka wrote:
> This:
> 
>   * New darktable installations on computers with more than 8 Gb of
> memory will now by default use half of that per module
> 
> So have I understood this correctly: it eats half of the RAM I have?
> 
> I have way more than 8gb of RAM and I haven't noticed a slightest
> improve in anything and surely it doesn't eat half of my RAM in anyphase.

No, it won't eat half your RAM all the time, it will just allow any module to 
use *up to* half the available RAM. How much is actually used will depend on 
the module, and on the image you are editing. 


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Re: [darktable-user] development question

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Am Sonntag, 18. März 2018, 18:27:22 CET schrieb Robert Bieber:
> Interesting, could you link me to that old discussion, by any chance? 
> Or do you remember the email title?  I've heard recently that Lightroom
> has some really useful dual-window functionality as well that works
> quite a bit differently from the detachable panels I was working on, so
> I've been meaning to look into how they do it as well.

It was on IRC, logs pasted below. At least the ones I could quickly find.

> -Robby

   Is there any plan for dual-head support in Darktable? I've read 
the 
old statements on the wiki about the difficulties caused by color management 
among monitors, but it could still be an option offered to the user with a 
warning on whether he should trust colors in the second monitor or not.
   Dual-monitor support in raw processing can still be very useful 
for 
much more than colors, including exposure, contrast, clarity, vignetting, 
cropping, sharpness, overall field of view and composition...
   I find it very hard to step back from Lightroom just because of 
this 
feature, I have two monitors and can only use one in Darktable. Processing 
raws implies pressing Tab all the time to show the picture and evaluate 
previous modifications. Displaying portrait picture in full is also not very 
good even with tab, while I could use my 90°-rotated secondary monitor for 
this. Feels a bit like a waste, even with imperfect colors.
   I'm sure I'm not the only one to have two monitors in the 
Darktable 
userbase and to see benefits in a secondary display, even with unreliable 
colors.
  i can't really envision what a dual head gui would look like. just all 
the sliders on one monitor and the image on the 2nd?
  Kabouik: ^
  or do you want to see the image in a 2nd window, so you have it twice?
   No houz, actually what most people who requested it so far 
would 
look for something very simple, like Lightroom currently provides: the second 
monitor would just show your current picture being edited in darkroom, almost 
in fullscreen, with simple tools like zoom in/out, 1:1, adapt to screen, and 
maybe a before/after comparison. That's all.
  1) i never used lightroom. 2) when the 2nd screen shows the image with 
extra controls, does the 1st screen show the image, too?
   It would allow one to edit a picture with all the sliders and 
plugins on one screen (and therefore a small view of the image because half 
the screen estate is reserved to plugins/tools), and a preview of the final 
result in large size in the second monitor. It gives a very noticeable use to 
a screen otherwise not used at all during the process.
   Yes the 1st screen shows the image as well, let me check if I 
can 
find screenshots (currently on Linux so I can't run LR myself)
  when zomming/panning one image view, does the other one follow? or are 
they independent?
   https://www.flickr.com/photos/vangeles/10761080605/ here's one 
example with one monitor in portrait (this is my case, although I do it the 
other way: controls on the landscape screen, preview on the portrait screen)
   It actually proves *really* useful one you tried it, honestly 
even 
with the steep learning curve of Darktable, this is by far what holds me back 
the most (even though I really am trying to move to Darktable)
   They are independent houz
   That's one of the things that make it really useful
   You can see changes in 1:1 in one screen and keep an eye on the 
whole image at the same time. Really useful even with imperfect colors 
matching between screens (like sharpness, details, noise...)
  that would require substantial changes to dt i assume
  or at least be quite slow
   Would it be so slow? I never saw any performance impact with or 
without the dual head feature in LR
   And my computer is not very powerful.
  no idea how lr works, i was just talking about dt
  we would have to compute everything twice
   I have no skills in coding/dev so forgive me if I was 
oversimplying 
the thing, but isn't it just a cloned view of the current image display in 
Darktable?
   Darktable currently resizes the view (or not) depending on the 
zoom 
level, but it would still be the same image with the same processing, just 
displayed twice in two different sizes
  if it showed the same in both views it were a cloned view, but if the 
regions shown may differ, zoom levels may differ, color profiles may differ, 
... it's a completely independent rendering
  it might still be feasible, maybe with one of the views being updated 
lazily
  so that the small preview on the edit-screen gets real time updates, 
and 
the other one may lag a little
  once you move your head to the 2nd screen you are probably not dragging 
sliders, so dt can catch up
   It could be just an option that the user can choose not to use 
if 
the impact is too big on performance (or if he has only one monitor of 
course). One way to put it could 

Re: [darktable-user] development question

[Robert Bieber]

Interesting, could you link me to that old discussion, by any chance?  
Or do you remember the email title?  I've heard recently that Lightroom 
has some really useful dual-window functionality as well that works 
quite a bit differently from the detachable panels I was working on, so 
I've been meaning to look into how they do it as well.


-Robby


On 03/18/2018 08:47 AM, Tobias Ellinghaus wrote:

Am Samstag, 17. März 2018, 22:12:29 CET schrieb Robert Bieber:

I don't think dual-monitor setups are that uncommon among people doing
serious image editing.  I honestly wouldn't mind trying to pick the
detachable panels thing back up next time I have a little free time,
because it would be a pretty cool thing for multiple screens, but I'm
not sure if the rest of the regular devs would be okay with having to
support the added complexity I'd be merging in.

I don't think that your code from back then was heading in the right
direction. We had some discussions about how to add a 2nd screen mode a short
while ago (I can't find where it took place, maybe mailing list, maybe IRC,
maybe a bug report) and the conclusion was that we would want a 2nd window
that is independently color managed and fed by a new independent darkroom pipe
that can be zoomed and panned independently.

If you feel like working on that we would all be more than happy. :-)

Tobias

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[darktable-user] What does this half of memory thing actually mean

[Henkka]

This:

 * New darktable installations on computers with more than 8 Gb of
   memory will now by default use half of that per module

So have I understood this correctly: it eats half of the RAM I have?

I have way more than 8gb of RAM and I haven't noticed a slightest 
improve in anything and surely it doesn't eat half of my RAM in anyphase.


I'm a bit confused about this.

Could someone explain?



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Re: [darktable-user] development question

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Am Samstag, 17. März 2018, 22:12:29 CET schrieb Robert Bieber:
> I don't think dual-monitor setups are that uncommon among people doing
> serious image editing.  I honestly wouldn't mind trying to pick the
> detachable panels thing back up next time I have a little free time,
> because it would be a pretty cool thing for multiple screens, but I'm
> not sure if the rest of the regular devs would be okay with having to
> support the added complexity I'd be merging in.

I don't think that your code from back then was heading in the right 
direction. We had some discussions about how to add a 2nd screen mode a short 
while ago (I can't find where it took place, maybe mailing list, maybe IRC, 
maybe a bug report) and the conclusion was that we would want a 2nd window 
that is independently color managed and fed by a new independent darkroom pipe 
that can be zoomed and panned independently.

If you feel like working on that we would all be more than happy. :-)

Tobias

[...]

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Re: [darktable-user] development question

[Howard Helsinger]

let's not all beat up on dt --it is wonderful,and gets better all the time.

I am a committed amateur ---  I have two wide screen (they make everything
easier) --
I have photoshop and Lt on my windows partition -- but I almost never use
them any more

I agree that a separate window for the image would be nice -- my video
editors certainly work that way.

but I'll keep using DT

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 8:22 AM, Sheridan Price 
wrote:

> I too use a multiscreen setup and would like to have the placement of
> panels and photos configurable.
>
> Regards
> Sher
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 4:56 AM Hervé Sainct, 
> wrote:
>
>> I have seen the various replies to this question ; for me I must say I
>> too am a bit shocked DT doesn't handle multiple screens.
>>
>> On this criterion alone it can't be called a professional app in a
>> discussion -which is so sad...
>>
>>
>> H.
>>
>>
>> Le 15/03/2018 à 22:56, François Patte a écrit :
>> > Bonjour,
>> >
>> > Is a version of darktable with a separate window for the photo (as it is
>> > the case for gimp for instance) wil come some day? And when?
>> >
>> > Thank you. Maybe, I have too much curiosity
>> >
>> > Best regards.
>> >
>>
>> 
>> 
>> darktable user mailing list
>> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@
>> lists.darktable.org
>>
>>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>



-- 
Howard Helsinger - 5723 S. Kenwood, Chicago, IL 60637


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Re: [darktable-user] development question

[Sheridan Price]

I too use a multiscreen setup and would like to have the placement of
panels and photos configurable.

Regards
Sher

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 4:56 AM Hervé Sainct, 
wrote:

> I have seen the various replies to this question ; for me I must say I
> too am a bit shocked DT doesn't handle multiple screens.
>
> On this criterion alone it can't be called a professional app in a
> discussion -which is so sad...
>
>
> H.
>
>
> Le 15/03/2018 à 22:56, François Patte a écrit :
> > Bonjour,
> >
> > Is a version of darktable with a separate window for the photo (as it is
> > the case for gimp for instance) wil come some day? And when?
> >
> > Thank you. Maybe, I have too much curiosity
> >
> > Best regards.
> >
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] development question

[François Patte]

Le 17/03/2018 à 19:02, Robert Krawitz a écrit :
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:36:50 +, Maurizio Paglia wrote:
>> I think software with this feature could be interesting on a two monitors
>> system, but I think only a few users have such configuration at home...
> 
> What about 21:9 monitors -- those are easily wide enough.  Or people
> with laptops and external displays (at least if they're calibrated or
> at lesat reasonably close)?

A single wide screen is not a solution:
1- If you want a (very) high resolution, the tools become (very) very
small and it is difficult to grab the small sliders for instance.
Moreover, I am not a photography professional, and I need to use my
computer for other purposes and a high resolution makes texts difficult
to read. Zooming or modifying the resolution is not a good solution.

2- With darktable, as it is, if you have the 3 panels surrounding the
photo you are working on, you have to often zoom when you want to see
some details, and while you do this, you cannot see how your
modifications on a zone affect the entire photo. Working with the photo
on a screen, (without anything else around it) is very confortable: see
gimp for instance.


> 
>> Il sab 17 mar 2018, 18:30 Robert Bieber  ha 
>> scritto:
>>
>>> I actually made a prototype of this back in 2011, what's left of it is
>>> in the "detachable" branch in the git repo.  It's been a loonng time
>>> since it's had master merged into it though, it would probably be a
>>> nightmare to try to merge, if you even could. I was really keen on the
>>> idea, but it didn't seem to garner a lot of interest
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/15/2018 02:56 PM, Fran=C3=A7ois Patte wrote:
 Bonjour,

 Is a version of darktable with a separate window for the photo (as it is
 the case for gimp for instance) wil come some day? And when?

 Thank you. Maybe, I have too much curiosity

 Best regards.


-- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte



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Re: [darktable-user] development question

[Pascal Obry]

Le dimanche 18 mars 2018 à 09:56 +0100, Hervé Sainct a écrit :
> I have seen the various replies to this question ; for me I must say
> I too am a bit shocked DT doesn't handle multiple screens.

Don't be shocked. It is Open Source, better use you energy to something
positive like doing it :)

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

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Re: [darktable-user] development question

[Hervé Sainct]

I have seen the various replies to this question ; for me I must say I 
too am a bit shocked DT doesn't handle multiple screens.


On this criterion alone it can't be called a professional app in a 
discussion -which is so sad...



H.


Le 15/03/2018 à 22:56, François Patte a écrit :

Bonjour,

Is a version of darktable with a separate window for the photo (as it is
the case for gimp for instance) wil come some day? And when?

Thank you. Maybe, I have too much curiosity

Best regards.




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