Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Vuk Milicic]

For example, regarding the question if there is need for MOAT or not,
because Faviki uses only semantic tags, and should it use associatedTag to
denote the DBpedia resource, and what ontologies sould be used..

I was a bit frustrated because it seems there are many things that are
debatable, and many ways to implement the same thing. It would be much
easier to have one accepted way of doing things, at least from the
perspective of someone who is still learning about it:) However, I learned
more about the stuff (it took some time), and things are much clearer now..

Thanks and sorry for my delayed response,

Vuk


On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Kingsley Idehen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Vuk Milicic wrote:
>
>> Hi Kingsley, Kanzaki
>>
>> Thank you very much for help.
>>
>> I must admit I am little confused by the contradictory advices I get from
>> the semweb community.
>> I am learning about using MOAT, SCOT, SIOC and other ontologies and hope I
>> will be able to implement them soon.
>>
> Vuk,
>
> Semantic Web community is large!
>
> I am specifically of the Linked Data tribe within the Semantic Web
> nation :-)
>
> What are you finding to be contradictory?
>
> Kingsley
>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Vuk Milicic
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Kingsley Idehen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>>
>>Vuk Milicic wrote:
>>
>>Hi Kanzaki,
>>
>>Thank you so much for your time and advice.
>>
>>
>>Because it's getting so nice, I can't help asking to fine
>>tune the
>>model a little bit more. May I ?
>>
>>Please! I'm not the semweb expert, so every advice is welcomed :)
>>
>>
>>If you don't mind
>>adding one more namespace declaration, it would be better
>>to use Tag
>>ontology [1]
>>
>>
>>I did it, but have two concerns about this:
>>
>>- Will RSS readers/aggregators (e.g. friendfeed) will still be
>>able to
>>read RSS easily?
>>- I am considering using MOAT ontology, too. As far as I
>>understand
>>it, MOAT extends  Richard Newman's tag ontology and provide a
>>way to
>>deal with tags with different meanings. I'm not sure if this
>>is needed
>>for Faviki, because ambiguous tags are automaticly redirected.
>>
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>Please use the MOAT and SCOT ontologies in conjunction with SIOC.
>>
>>To get a feel for the end product of such an endeavor see these
>>views of my Tag Clouds via the OpenLink RDF Browser:
>>
>>1. My Blog Data Space Tag Cloud
>><
>> http://demo.openlinksw.com/rdfbrowser2/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fweblog%2FMyBlogDataSpace%2Ftagcloud
>> >
>>2. My Shared Bookmarks Tag Cloud
>><
>> http://demo.openlinksw.com/rdfbrowser2/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fbookmark%2FKingsleyBookmarks%2Ftagcloud
>> >
>>
>>3. My Feeds Subscription Tag Cloud
>><
>> http://demo.openlinksw.com/rdfbrowser2/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fsubscriptions%2FKingsleyIdehenFeeds%2Ftagcloud
>> >
>>4. A Collection of Tag Clouds
>><
>> http://demo.openlinksw.com/rdfbrowser2/?uri%5B%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fweblog%2FMyBlogDataSpace%2Ftagcloud&uri%5B%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fbookmark%2FKingsleyBookmarks%2Ftagcloud&uri%5B%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fsubscriptions%2FKingsleyIdehenFeeds%2Ftagcloud&;
>><
>> http://demo.openlinksw.com/rdfbrowser2/?uri%5B%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fweblog%2FMyBlogDataSpace%2Ftagcloud&uri%5B%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fbookmark%2FKingsleyBookmarks%2Ftagcloud&uri%5B%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fsubscriptions%2FKingsleyIdehenFeeds%2Ftagcloud&;
>> >>(1-3)
>>
>>The Tags are bound to SKOS, MOAT, and SCOT, with SIOC used for
>>Containment (i.e Data Space partitioning).  All the Tags have URIs
>>and these Tag URIs are associated with Meaning URIs (courtesy of
>>MOAT). SCOT is used for the Tag stats, and SKOS for
>>Conceptualization and Preferred Labeling. Of course, my tags are a
>>mesh of del.icio.us  and Technorati tags based
>>on the bonding that exists between by ODS instance and these Tag
>>oriented Data Spaces (i.e. Technorati and Del.icio.us
>>).
>>
>>The following URIs will expose the Tag Clouds above in any RDF
>>aware user agent (e.g.  Zitgist Data Viewer
>><
>> http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/kidehen/subscriptions/KingsleyIdehenFeeds/tagcloud
>> >,
>>Tabulator, DISCO, Marble, others):
>>
>>1.  My Blog Data Space Tag Cloud
>><
>> http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/kidehen/weblog/MyBlogDataSpace/tagcloud>
>>2.  My Shared Bookmarks Tag Cloud
>><
>> http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/kidehen/b

Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Kingsley Idehen]

Vuk Milicic wrote:
> Hi Kingsley, Kanzaki
>
> Thank you very much for help.
>
> I must admit I am little confused by the contradictory advices I get 
> from the semweb community.
> I am learning about using MOAT, SCOT, SIOC and other ontologies and 
> hope I will be able to implement them soon.
Vuk,

Semantic Web community is large!

I am specifically of the Linked Data tribe within the Semantic Web
nation :-)

What are you finding to be contradictory?

Kingsley
>
> Best regards,
> Vuk Milicic
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Kingsley Idehen 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>
> Vuk Milicic wrote:
>
> Hi Kanzaki,
>
> Thank you so much for your time and advice.
>
>  
>
> Because it's getting so nice, I can't help asking to fine
> tune the
> model a little bit more. May I ?
>
>
> Please! I'm not the semweb expert, so every advice is welcomed :)
>
>  
>
> If you don't mind
> adding one more namespace declaration, it would be better
> to use Tag
> ontology [1]
>
>
>
> I did it, but have two concerns about this:
>
> - Will RSS readers/aggregators (e.g. friendfeed) will still be
> able to
> read RSS easily?
> - I am considering using MOAT ontology, too. As far as I
> understand
> it, MOAT extends  Richard Newman's tag ontology and provide a
> way to
> deal with tags with different meanings. I'm not sure if this
> is needed
> for Faviki, because ambiguous tags are automaticly redirected.
>  
>
>
> [snip]
>
> Please use the MOAT and SCOT ontologies in conjunction with SIOC.
>
> To get a feel for the end product of such an endeavor see these
> views of my Tag Clouds via the OpenLink RDF Browser:
>
> 1. My Blog Data Space Tag Cloud
> 
> 
> 2. My Shared Bookmarks Tag Cloud
> 
> 
>
> 3. My Feeds Subscription Tag Cloud
> 
> 
> 4. A Collection of Tag Clouds
> 
>  
> >(1-3)
>
> The Tags are bound to SKOS, MOAT, and SCOT, with SIOC used for
> Containment (i.e Data Space partitioning).  All the Tags have URIs
> and these Tag URIs are associated with Meaning URIs (courtesy of
> MOAT). SCOT is used for the Tag stats, and SKOS for
> Conceptualization and Preferred Labeling. Of course, my tags are a
> mesh of del.icio.us  and Technorati tags based
> on the bonding that exists between by ODS instance and these Tag
> oriented Data Spaces (i.e. Technorati and Del.icio.us
> ).
>
> The following URIs will expose the Tag Clouds above in any RDF
> aware user agent (e.g.  Zitgist Data Viewer
> 
> ,
> Tabulator, DISCO, Marble, others):
>
> 1.  My Blog Data Space Tag Cloud
> 
> 2.  My Shared Bookmarks Tag Cloud
> 
> 
> 3.  My Feeds Subscription Tag Cloud
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen   Weblog:
> http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> 
> President & CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Vuk Milièiæ
> Web Design & Development
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> http://www.vukmilicic.com
> +381 63 83 90 135 


-- 


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen   Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kide

Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Vuk Milicic]

Hi Kingsley, Kanzaki

Thank you very much for help.

I must admit I am little confused by the contradictory advices I get from
the semweb community.
I am learning about using MOAT, SCOT, SIOC and other ontologies and hope I
will be able to implement them soon.

Best regards,
Vuk Milicic


On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Kingsley Idehen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Vuk Milicic wrote:
>
>> Hi Kanzaki,
>>
>> Thank you so much for your time and advice.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Because it's getting so nice, I can't help asking to fine tune the
>>> model a little bit more. May I ?
>>>
>>>
>> Please! I'm not the semweb expert, so every advice is welcomed :)
>>
>>
>>
>>> If you don't mind
>>> adding one more namespace declaration, it would be better to use Tag
>>> ontology [1]
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I did it, but have two concerns about this:
>>
>> - Will RSS readers/aggregators (e.g. friendfeed) will still be able to
>> read RSS easily?
>> - I am considering using MOAT ontology, too. As far as I understand
>> it, MOAT extends  Richard Newman's tag ontology and provide a way to
>> deal with tags with different meanings. I'm not sure if this is needed
>> for Faviki, because ambiguous tags are automaticly redirected.
>>
>>
>
> [snip]
>
> Please use the MOAT and SCOT ontologies in conjunction with SIOC.
>
> To get a feel for the end product of such an endeavor see these views of my
> Tag Clouds via the OpenLink RDF Browser:
>
> 1. My Blog Data Space Tag Cloud <
> http://demo.openlinksw.com/rdfbrowser2/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fweblog%2FMyBlogDataSpace%2Ftagcloud
> >
> 2. My Shared Bookmarks Tag Cloud <
> http://demo.openlinksw.com/rdfbrowser2/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fbookmark%2FKingsleyBookmarks%2Ftagcloud>
>
> 3. My Feeds Subscription Tag Cloud <
> http://demo.openlinksw.com/rdfbrowser2/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fsubscriptions%2FKingsleyIdehenFeeds%2Ftagcloud
> >
> 4. A Collection of Tag Clouds <
> http://demo.openlinksw.com/rdfbrowser2/?uri%5B%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fweblog%2FMyBlogDataSpace%2Ftagcloud&uri%5B%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fbookmark%2FKingsleyBookmarks%2Ftagcloud&uri%5B%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fmyopenlink.net%2Fdataspace%2Fkidehen%2Fsubscriptions%2FKingsleyIdehenFeeds%2Ftagcloud&;
> >(1-3)
>
> The Tags are bound to SKOS, MOAT, and SCOT, with SIOC used for Containment
> (i.e Data Space partitioning).  All the Tags have URIs and these Tag URIs
> are associated with Meaning URIs (courtesy of MOAT). SCOT is used for the
> Tag stats, and SKOS for Conceptualization and Preferred Labeling. Of course,
> my tags are a mesh of del.icio.us and Technorati tags based on the bonding
> that exists between by ODS instance and these Tag oriented Data Spaces (i.e.
> Technorati and Del.icio.us).
>
> The following URIs will expose the Tag Clouds above in any RDF aware user
> agent (e.g.  Zitgist Data Viewer <
> http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/kidehen/subscriptions/KingsleyIdehenFeeds/tagcloud>,
> Tabulator, DISCO, Marble, others):
>
> 1.  My Blog Data Space Tag Cloud <
> http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/kidehen/weblog/MyBlogDataSpace/tagcloud>
> 2.  My Shared Bookmarks Tag Cloud <
> http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/kidehen/bookmark/KingsleyBookmarks/tagcloud
> >
> 3.  My Feeds Subscription Tag Cloud <
> http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/kidehen/subscriptions/KingsleyIdehenFeeds/tagcloud
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen   Weblog: 
> http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> President & CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Vuk Miličić
Web Design & Development

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vukmilicic.com
+381 63 83 90 135
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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[KANZAKI Masahide]

Hi Vuk, thank you for your prompt action.

> I did it, but have two concerns about this:
>
> - Will RSS readers/aggregators (e.g. friendfeed) will still be able to
> read RSS easily?

Yes, as far as I know, RSS readers respect vocabularies they know
(e.g. RSS 1.0, DC etc.), and just ignore those they don't. Actually,
Bloglines and Google reader can aggregate the revised Faviki RSS
without any problem.

> - I am considering using MOAT ontology, too. As far as I understand
> it, MOAT extends  Richard Newman's tag ontology and provide a way to
> deal with tags with different meanings. I'm not sure if this is needed
> for Faviki, because ambiguous tags are automaticly redirected.

Ah, well, t:associatedTag is usually used to relate a context
dependent Tag (e.g. tags in del.icio.us, whose meaning might be
different for each user). MOAT could be used to give a global meaning
to such Tag.

Here, however, Faviki uses DBpedia resources as the tag, whose
semantics are already defined. I guess you don't need to further
define the meaning of them with MOAT.

(It could be debatable whether t:associatedTag is really appropriate
here, though)

> >
> > (document_uri)
> >  >rdf:resource="http://dbpedia.org/resource/Uniform_Resource_Identifier"/>
>
> Did you mean  ?

Yes, sorry (I had Tag ontology in mind).

> >It would be still better if you include  >rdf:resource="(document_uri)"/>
>
> Should I leave  tag or remove it completely?

Leave it. RSS readers rely on  tag to find bookmarked document's
URI. Although looks redundant, each serves different purpose. I
recommend to use both taggedResource and link.


> Can I remove some of the namespaces that are not used, like
> 'http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/taxonomy/' ?

Sure. If you do not use terms from that namespace, you can safely
remove such xmlns: declaration.

best,

-- 
@prefix :  . <> :from [:name
"KANZAKI Masahide"; :nick "masaka"; :email "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"].

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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Kingsley Idehen]

Vuk Milicic wrote:
> Hi Kanzaki,
>
> Thank you so much for your time and advice.
>
>   
>> Because it's getting so nice, I can't help asking to fine tune the
>> model a little bit more. May I ?
>> 
> Please! I'm not the semweb expert, so every advice is welcomed :)
>
>   
>> If you don't mind
>> adding one more namespace declaration, it would be better to use Tag
>> ontology [1]
>> 
>
> I did it, but have two concerns about this:
>
> - Will RSS readers/aggregators (e.g. friendfeed) will still be able to
> read RSS easily?
> - I am considering using MOAT ontology, too. As far as I understand
> it, MOAT extends  Richard Newman's tag ontology and provide a way to
> deal with tags with different meanings. I'm not sure if this is needed
> for Faviki, because ambiguous tags are automaticly redirected.
>   

[snip]

Please use the MOAT and SCOT ontologies in conjunction with SIOC.

To get a feel for the end product of such an endeavor see these views of 
my Tag Clouds via the OpenLink RDF Browser:

1. My Blog Data Space Tag Cloud 

2. My Shared Bookmarks Tag Cloud 

 

3. My Feeds Subscription Tag Cloud 

4. A Collection of Tag Clouds 
(1-3)

The Tags are bound to SKOS, MOAT, and SCOT, with SIOC used for 
Containment (i.e Data Space partitioning).  All the Tags have URIs and 
these Tag URIs are associated with Meaning URIs (courtesy of MOAT). SCOT 
is used for the Tag stats, and SKOS for Conceptualization and Preferred 
Labeling. Of course, my tags are a mesh of del.icio.us and Technorati 
tags based on the bonding that exists between by ODS instance and these 
Tag oriented Data Spaces (i.e. Technorati and Del.icio.us).

The following URIs will expose the Tag Clouds above in any RDF aware 
user agent (e.g.  Zitgist Data Viewer 
,
 
Tabulator, DISCO, Marble, others):

1.  My Blog Data Space Tag Cloud 

2.  My Shared Bookmarks Tag Cloud 

3.  My Feeds Subscription Tag Cloud 





 

-- 


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen   Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO 
OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com





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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Vuk Milicic]

Hi Kanzaki,

Thank you so much for your time and advice.

>Because it's getting so nice, I can't help asking to fine tune the
>model a little bit more. May I ?
Please! I'm not the semweb expert, so every advice is welcomed :)

>If you don't mind
>adding one more namespace declaration, it would be better to use Tag
>ontology [1]

I did it, but have two concerns about this:

- Will RSS readers/aggregators (e.g. friendfeed) will still be able to
read RSS easily?
- I am considering using MOAT ontology, too. As far as I understand
it, MOAT extends  Richard Newman's tag ontology and provide a way to
deal with tags with different meanings. I'm not sure if this is needed
for Faviki, because ambiguous tags are automaticly redirected.

>
> (document_uri)
> rdf:resource="http://dbpedia.org/resource/Uniform_Resource_Identifier"/>

Did you mean  ?


>It would be still better if you include rdf:resource="(document_uri)"/>

Should I leave  tag or remove it completely?


> (2) value of dc:creator..
Done.


> (3) non declared XML entities...
I fixed it. It should work now.


>OK, in this case, the items are the target documents, rather than tags
>assigned by Faviki users...
Done.

Can I remove some of the namespaces that are not used, like
'http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/taxonomy/' ?


Best regrads,
Vuk


On 6/1/08, KANZAKI Masahide <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Vuk,
>
> Thank you very much for RSS updates! Looks marvellous.
>
> Because it's getting so nice, I can't help asking to fine tune the
> model a little bit more. May I ?
>
> (1) dc:subject
>
> Now the items denote bookmarks, not target documents, it seems
> somewhat strange that an item (a book mark) has dc:subjects (because
> they are the subjects of the target document). If you don't mind
> adding one more namespace declaration, it would be better to use Tag
> ontology [1], and replace dc:subject with t:associatedTag, e.g.:
>
> xmlns:t="http://www.holygoat.co.uk/owl/redwood/0.1/tags/";
> ...
> 
>   (document_uri)
>rdf:resource="http://dbpedia.org/resource/Uniform_Resource_Identifier"/>
>   ...
> etc. (It would be still better if you include  rdf:resource="(document_uri)"/> to generate a triple to connect the
> tag=item and the document, but I'm afraid this might be too much
> asking you ?)
>
> (2) value of dc:creator
>
> It's good idea to have user (tagger) URI as value of dc:creator. It
> would be much better if you use 
> instead of literal value (http...).
>
> (3) non declared XML entities
>
> For some reasons, this RSS includes several XHTML entity references
> such as â, ¦, ã, etc. These are declared in XHTML
> DTD, but not predefined XML entities. This makes the RSS ill-formed,
> and would cause fatal errors in XML applications. (This is not an RDF
> issue, but RSS/XML in general). I'd suggest use numerical reference
> such as ģ (or %HH encoding for URI) if necessary.
>
>
>> I am not sure what should I do in the case when bookmarks are sorted by
>> popularity (e.g. http://www.faviki.com/?sort=popular). I
>> use http://www.faviki.com/?u=[id] for item uris, and left dc:creator and
>> dc:date blank. I'm not sure if this is ok. You can check it on
>> http://www.faviki.com/rss.php?sort=popular. What do you
>> think?
>
> OK, in this case, the items are the target documents, rather than tags
> assigned by Faviki users. So, you can safely use target document URIs
> for rdf:about attributes on each item (and rdf:li in items). You can
> still use http://www.faviki.com/?u=[id], i.e. this denotes the same
> thing as document uri does.
>
> The values of dc:creator and dc:date for this item should be those of
> the target document, which are usually not known in bookmarking
> system. Hence, you can omit these properties (better than blank
> properties).
>
> In turn, dc:subject is fine in this case. If you are interested in Tag
> ontology, you might want to use t:taggedWithTag in place of dc:subject
> (this would look somewhat tricky, but works).
>
> I appreciate very much your effort to make Faviki RDF output better.
>
> thank you and best regards,
>
> [1] http://www.holygoat.co.uk/projects/tags/
>
> --
> @prefix :  . <> :from [:name
> "KANZAKI Masahide"; :nick "masaka"; :email "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"].
>


-- 
Vuk Miličić
Web Design & Development

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vukmilicic.com
+381 63 83 90 135
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[KANZAKI Masahide]

Hi Vuk,

Thank you very much for RSS updates! Looks marvellous.

Because it's getting so nice, I can't help asking to fine tune the
model a little bit more. May I ?

(1) dc:subject

Now the items denote bookmarks, not target documents, it seems
somewhat strange that an item (a book mark) has dc:subjects (because
they are the subjects of the target document). If you don't mind
adding one more namespace declaration, it would be better to use Tag
ontology [1], and replace dc:subject with t:associatedTag, e.g.:

xmlns:t="http://www.holygoat.co.uk/owl/redwood/0.1/tags/";
...

  (document_uri)
  http://dbpedia.org/resource/Uniform_Resource_Identifier"/>
  ...
etc. (It would be still better if you include  to generate a triple to connect the
tag=item and the document, but I'm afraid this might be too much
asking you ?)

(2) value of dc:creator

It's good idea to have user (tagger) URI as value of dc:creator. It
would be much better if you use 
instead of literal value (http...).

(3) non declared XML entities

For some reasons, this RSS includes several XHTML entity references
such as â, ¦, ã, etc. These are declared in XHTML
DTD, but not predefined XML entities. This makes the RSS ill-formed,
and would cause fatal errors in XML applications. (This is not an RDF
issue, but RSS/XML in general). I'd suggest use numerical reference
such as ģ (or %HH encoding for URI) if necessary.


> I am not sure what should I do in the case when bookmarks are sorted by
> popularity (e.g. http://www.faviki.com/?sort=popular). I
> use http://www.faviki.com/?u=[id] for item uris, and left dc:creator and
> dc:date blank. I'm not sure if this is ok. You can check it on
> http://www.faviki.com/rss.php?sort=popular. What do you
> think?

OK, in this case, the items are the target documents, rather than tags
assigned by Faviki users. So, you can safely use target document URIs
for rdf:about attributes on each item (and rdf:li in items). You can
still use http://www.faviki.com/?u=[id], i.e. this denotes the same
thing as document uri does.

The values of dc:creator and dc:date for this item should be those of
the target document, which are usually not known in bookmarking
system. Hence, you can omit these properties (better than blank
properties).

In turn, dc:subject is fine in this case. If you are interested in Tag
ontology, you might want to use t:taggedWithTag in place of dc:subject
(this would look somewhat tricky, but works).

I appreciate very much your effort to make Faviki RDF output better.

thank you and best regards,

[1] http://www.holygoat.co.uk/projects/tags/

-- 
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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Vuk Milicic]

Hi Kanzaki,

Thank you very much for your suggestions!

I changed item URIs and rdf:bag part. Can you please check it out (e.g.
http://www.faviki.com/rss.php?sort=date)?

I am not sure what should I do in the case when bookmarks are sorted by
popularity (e.g. http://www.faviki.com/?sort=popular). I use
http://www.faviki.com/?u=[id] for item uris, and left dc:creator and dc:date
blank. I'm not sure if this is ok. You can check it on
http://www.faviki.com/rss.php?sort=popular. What do you think?

Thanks,
Vuk


On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 3:51 AM, KANZAKI Masahide <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi Vuk,
>
> 2008/5/28, Vuk Milicic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I fixed RSS.. - changed DBpedia URI from 'data' to 'resource'
>
> Very nice to see such a prompt action. Thanks !
>
> May I suggest a few more points on Faviki RSS ?
>
> (1) Item URI: current RSS uses bookmarked document's URI for item's
> rdf:about. This would cause several problems:
> - dc:creator means its object is a creator of the subject (item).
> Since this RSS assigns a user to dc:creator's object, this asserts
> that one who bookmarked had created the document, which is not true in
> most cases.
> - once aggregated, items with the same URI will be merged, and then a
> document (denoted by the URI) will have multiple dc:creator, dc:date
> etc.
>   For example, see RSS for one document (e.g.
> http://www.faviki.com/?u=2180). All items have the same URIs.
>
> I guess the items here would be bookmarks rather than target
> documents. So why not assign a bookmark URI (e.g.
> http://www.faviki.com/?s=427&u=2180) to each item ? You could still
> use  to provide the target document URI so that RSS readers
> properly show hyperlinks.
>
> (2) rdf:Bag/rdf:li : the RDF container model has some problems (e.g.
> for SPARQL query) and is generally considered obsolete. Would you use
> direct multiple properties for multiple tags, e.g.:
>
> 
> ...
> http://dbpedia.org/resource/Resource_Description_Framework"/>
> http://dbpedia.org/resource/Social_bookmarking
> "/>
> 
>
> This is not a major suggestion, but certainly welcome improvement to
> already great RDF data.
>
> Thank you.
> --
> @prefix :  . <> :from [:name
> "KANZAKI Masahide"; :nick "masaka"; :email "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"].
>



-- 
Vuk Miličić
Web Design & Development

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vukmilicic.com
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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[KANZAKI Masahide]

Hi Vuk,

2008/5/28, Vuk Milicic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I fixed RSS.. - changed DBpedia URI from 'data' to 'resource'

Very nice to see such a prompt action. Thanks !

May I suggest a few more points on Faviki RSS ?

(1) Item URI: current RSS uses bookmarked document's URI for item's
rdf:about. This would cause several problems:
- dc:creator means its object is a creator of the subject (item).
Since this RSS assigns a user to dc:creator's object, this asserts
that one who bookmarked had created the document, which is not true in
most cases.
- once aggregated, items with the same URI will be merged, and then a
document (denoted by the URI) will have multiple dc:creator, dc:date
etc.
   For example, see RSS for one document (e.g.
http://www.faviki.com/?u=2180). All items have the same URIs.

I guess the items here would be bookmarks rather than target
documents. So why not assign a bookmark URI (e.g.
http://www.faviki.com/?s=427&u=2180) to each item ? You could still
use  to provide the target document URI so that RSS readers
properly show hyperlinks.

(2) rdf:Bag/rdf:li : the RDF container model has some problems (e.g.
for SPARQL query) and is generally considered obsolete. Would you use
direct multiple properties for multiple tags, e.g.:


...
http://dbpedia.org/resource/Resource_Description_Framework"/>
http://dbpedia.org/resource/Social_bookmarking"/>


This is not a major suggestion, but certainly welcome improvement to
already great RDF data.

Thank you.
-- 
@prefix :  . <> :from [:name
"KANZAKI Masahide"; :nick "masaka"; :email "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"].

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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Vuk Milicic]

Hi DBpedia Folks!

 Please sorry for my delayed responses.

I'm very glad that folks from DBpedia like (and use) Faviki!

I think DBpedia is a great project, and hope it will continue to develop.
Version 3.0 has some great improvements (especially disambiguation and
redirect extractions, and I hope they will be perfected in the
future). Abstracts are pretty important, and I think they should be better.
I believe mess appears because of removing urls from text (besides Wikipedia
inconsistency)?

Did you consider another alternative abstract with urls left inside? I
noticed links (to other Wikipedia articles) in the first couple of
paragraphs of Wikipedia article are usually pretty related to article
itself. If abstract in Faviki have links (to Faviki pages about tags), or an
option to show only that related tags, I believe it would be another great
way to navigate and learn about stuff.

I agree that general problem with social and collaborative systems is that
they must provide a benefit for the user, when there are not much data. It
seems that good ideas often fail because they're highly dependent on large
number of users and their activity. In my opinion, the challenge is to make
a system which will be useful if there is only one user, and let the real
benefit (coming from many nodes and interconnections) comes later. That's
what I'm trying to do with Faviki. :)

In my vision Faviki will evolve toward connecting the people with tags and
websites and defining types of webpages (using predefined predicates), that
was actually the original idea of Faviki, but I decided to start with
smaller and more focused version in order to provide easier adoption and
understanding of its key values..

I'm glad we have a similar thoughts about connecting it with Wikipedia. I
really believe there is a potential, and that Wikipedia can benefit, too.

I fixed RSS.. - changed DBpedia URI from 'data' to 'resource'

It would be nice to keep in touch.. I would like to hear suggestions and
ideas from you, from the perspective of DBpedia creators and Faviki users.

Best wishes from sunny Belgrade,
Vuk Milicic


-- 
Vuk Miličić
Web Design & Development

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.faviki.com
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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Bernard Vatant]

Hi Georgi

Georgi Kobilarov a écrit :
> Hi Bernard,
>
> Faviki is a service that I have waited for a long time. I used
> del.icio.us in the past, but its social component was mostly irrelevant
> to me. I want to use a bookmarking service for my own personal benefit
> of storing and remembering websites.
>   
In this case, why not simply using your browser bookmarks?
If I think only of personal benefit, the one I see in social bookmarking 
is discovering more relevant resources around the ones I know of.
Sharing is a win-win strategy, I think all the history of web 
technologies is there to support this thesis.
>  
> This social stuff is great if it makes it easier for me to reach my
> goal, and the delicious tag recommendation is a good example. People tag
> their stuff, and by doing so they help other users. But I would never
> contribute to delicious *just* to help other users (and to train the
> recommendation algorithm).
>   
Of course. This is not a question of technology, it's the basis of 
sociality. Why do we exchange on this forum or other ones?
> Here's a fantastic blog post about that relation of personal benefit and
> social systems:
> http://bokardo.com/archives/the-delicious-lesson/
>   
Well, it's amazing that people need to look at social bookmarking to 
re-discover the basic principles of social life.
They are not different for the network.
> Faviki has great potential, but IMHO they have to find a way to use
> DBpedia's semantic graph to provide additional *personal* value to their
> users. 
Hanging my favorites on DBpedia concepts is indeed adding personal 
values. The auto-completing tagging made me discover already Wikipedia 
stuff I did not know. Not to mention other bookmarks that other will tag 
with the same. And navigation to related topics and categories makes me 
discover more. The personal benefit is obvious for me.
> The potential feature of contributing to Wikipedia you've
> mentioned is indeed very interesting, but the system has to be built in
> a way that these social contributions happen as a side effect of people
> using the system because they love it for the personal problems it
> solves.
>   
Well this is a strange assertion to me. Why do people contribute to 
Wikipedia? What is the personal reward? Don't forget that DBpedia, and 
hence the possibility of a tool like Faviki, and of DBpedia being the 
backbone of the Linked Data cloud, is just a "side effect" of the huge 
work of  the Wikipedia community. Granted DBpedia formalize the 
semantics, but if the semantics were not already implicitly embedded in 
Wikipedia pages (and first of all, its subject-centic nature), there 
would not be anything to build upon.  So why would this very community 
not use the social semantic loop, the added value of resources 
bookmarked on DBpedia concepts, to augment the Wikipedia content itself, 
and enter in a virtuous semantic circle? I think we have to see those 
tools in the Big Picture of collective intelligence emergence. The 
social success of Wikipedia has proven that this is not a void concept.

Cheers


Bernard
> Cheers,
> Georgi
>
> --
> Georgi Kobilarov
> Freie Universität Berlin
> www.georgikobilarov.com
>
>   
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:55 AM
>> To: Georgi Kobilarov
>> Cc: dbpedia-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki
>>
>> Hi Georgi
>>
>> Thanks for the pointer.
>>
>> Faviki is indeed great. I'd never be convinced by any social
>> bookmarking
>> so far, because I found tags so messy, but I've adopted Faviki right
>> away (http://www.faviki.com/?s=172) and I don't seem to be alone : the
>> adoption curve seems to be steep since yesterday.
>> One interesting potential feature is the feedback towards Wikipedia
>> editors themselves. They can tap in the resources indexed on their
>> favourite articles to improve the article content.
>> So this is a good example to monitor of social semantic feedback.
>>
>> Bernard
>>
>>
>> Georgi Kobilarov a écrit :
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> just found a new semantic bookmarking service called Faviki [1]
>>>   
> which
>   
>>> uses DBpedia for tagging content.
>>>
>>> Great stuff :)
>>>
>>> But I'm wondering if these guy can show some more value from using
>>> "semantic" tags.
>>> And I hope they will start publishing their data as Linked Data...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Georgi
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] h

Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Georgi Kobilarov]

Thanks for the pointer to their RSS!

The use of dbpedia.org/data/ is clearly wrong! Must be
dbpedia.org/resource/.
I don't have an opinion about dc:subject compared to taxo:topics +
Bags... 

Cheers,
Georgi

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:dbpedia-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KANZAKI
Masahide
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:25 PM
> To: dbpedia-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Faviki provides RSS 1.0 for a bookmark list, and tags to each item are
> included as DBpedia URIs, e.g.
> 
> 
>  
>   http://dbpedia.org/data/RDF"; />
>   http://dbpedia.org/data/Semantic_Web"; />
>  
> 
> 
> Notice that, besides somewhat obsolete taxo:topic + rdf:Bag/rdf:li
> model, DBpedia URIs are 'data' rather than 'resource'. What do you
> think, as tag object, is good URI in this case ? I guess
> 
>   http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF"/>
>   http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web"/>
> 
> would be straightforward, but any rationale to use 'data' URIs here ?
> 
> cheers,
> --
> @prefix : <http://www.kanzaki.com/ns/sig#> . <> :from [:name
> "KANZAKI Masahide"; :nick "masaka"; :email "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"].
> 
>
---
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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[KANZAKI Masahide]

Hi all,

Faviki provides RSS 1.0 for a bookmark list, and tags to each item are
included as DBpedia URIs, e.g.


 
  http://dbpedia.org/data/RDF"; />
  http://dbpedia.org/data/Semantic_Web"; />
 


Notice that, besides somewhat obsolete taxo:topic + rdf:Bag/rdf:li
model, DBpedia URIs are 'data' rather than 'resource'. What do you
think, as tag object, is good URI in this case ? I guess

  http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF"/>
  http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web"/>

would be straightforward, but any rationale to use 'data' URIs here ?

cheers,
-- 
@prefix :  . <> :from [:name
"KANZAKI Masahide"; :nick "masaka"; :email "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"].

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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Georgi Kobilarov]

Ok, I looked a bit closer at Faviki, and the way they use the
categorization and classification data is brilliant. Still wondering
whether/how this will actually help me in daily use, but I'm very
excited!!!


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:dbpedia-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Georgi
Kobilarov
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:42 PM
> To: Bernard Vatant
> Cc: dbpedia-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki
> 
> Hi Bernard,
> 
> Faviki is a service that I have waited for a long time. I used
> del.icio.us in the past, but its social component was mostly
irrelevant
> to me. I want to use a bookmarking service for my own personal benefit
> of storing and remembering websites.
> 
> This social stuff is great if it makes it easier for me to reach my
> goal, and the delicious tag recommendation is a good example. People
> tag
> their stuff, and by doing so they help other users. But I would never
> contribute to delicious *just* to help other users (and to train the
> recommendation algorithm).
> 
> Here's a fantastic blog post about that relation of personal benefit
> and
> social systems:
> http://bokardo.com/archives/the-delicious-lesson/
> 
> Faviki has great potential, but IMHO they have to find a way to use
> DBpedia's semantic graph to provide additional *personal* value to
> their
> users. The potential feature of contributing to Wikipedia you've
> mentioned is indeed very interesting, but the system has to be built
in
> a way that these social contributions happen as a side effect of
people
> using the system because they love it for the personal problems it
> solves.
> 
> Cheers,
> Georgi
> 
> --
> Georgi Kobilarov
> Freie Universität Berlin
> www.georgikobilarov.com
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:55 AM
> > To: Georgi Kobilarov
> > Cc: dbpedia-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service:
> Faviki
> >
> > Hi Georgi
> >
> > Thanks for the pointer.
> >
> > Faviki is indeed great. I'd never be convinced by any social
> > bookmarking
> > so far, because I found tags so messy, but I've adopted Faviki right
> > away (http://www.faviki.com/?s=172) and I don't seem to be alone :
> the
> > adoption curve seems to be steep since yesterday.
> > One interesting potential feature is the feedback towards Wikipedia
> > editors themselves. They can tap in the resources indexed on their
> > favourite articles to improve the article content.
> > So this is a good example to monitor of social semantic feedback.
> >
> > Bernard
> >
> >
> > Georgi Kobilarov a écrit :
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > just found a new semantic bookmarking service called Faviki [1]
> which
> > > uses DBpedia for tagging content.
> > >
> > > Great stuff :)
> > >
> > > But I'm wondering if these guy can show some more value from using
> > > "semantic" tags.
> > > And I hope they will start publishing their data as Linked Data...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Georgi
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] http://faviki.com/
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Georgi Kobilarov
> > > Freie Universität Berlin
> > > www.georgikobilarov.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> -
> > 
> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
> > > ___
> > > Dbpedia-discussion mailing list
> > > Dbpedia-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbpedia-discussion
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *Bernard Vatant
> > *Knowledge Engineering
> > 
> > *Mondeca**
> > *3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
> > Web:www.mondeca.com <http://www.mondeca.com>
> > 
> > Tel:   +33 (0) 971 488 459
> > Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Blog:Leçons de Choses <http://mondeca.wordpress.com/>
> 
> 
>
---

Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Georgi Kobilarov]

Hi Bernard,

Faviki is a service that I have waited for a long time. I used
del.icio.us in the past, but its social component was mostly irrelevant
to me. I want to use a bookmarking service for my own personal benefit
of storing and remembering websites.
 
This social stuff is great if it makes it easier for me to reach my
goal, and the delicious tag recommendation is a good example. People tag
their stuff, and by doing so they help other users. But I would never
contribute to delicious *just* to help other users (and to train the
recommendation algorithm).

Here's a fantastic blog post about that relation of personal benefit and
social systems:
http://bokardo.com/archives/the-delicious-lesson/

Faviki has great potential, but IMHO they have to find a way to use
DBpedia's semantic graph to provide additional *personal* value to their
users. The potential feature of contributing to Wikipedia you've
mentioned is indeed very interesting, but the system has to be built in
a way that these social contributions happen as a side effect of people
using the system because they love it for the personal problems it
solves.

Cheers,
Georgi

--
Georgi Kobilarov
Freie Universität Berlin
www.georgikobilarov.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:55 AM
> To: Georgi Kobilarov
> Cc: dbpedia-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki
> 
> Hi Georgi
> 
> Thanks for the pointer.
> 
> Faviki is indeed great. I'd never be convinced by any social
> bookmarking
> so far, because I found tags so messy, but I've adopted Faviki right
> away (http://www.faviki.com/?s=172) and I don't seem to be alone : the
> adoption curve seems to be steep since yesterday.
> One interesting potential feature is the feedback towards Wikipedia
> editors themselves. They can tap in the resources indexed on their
> favourite articles to improve the article content.
> So this is a good example to monitor of social semantic feedback.
> 
> Bernard
> 
> 
> Georgi Kobilarov a écrit :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > just found a new semantic bookmarking service called Faviki [1]
which
> > uses DBpedia for tagging content.
> >
> > Great stuff :)
> >
> > But I'm wondering if these guy can show some more value from using
> > "semantic" tags.
> > And I hope they will start publishing their data as Linked Data...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Georgi
> >
> >
> > [1] http://faviki.com/
> >
> >
> > --
> > Georgi Kobilarov
> > Freie Universität Berlin
> > www.georgikobilarov.com
> >
> >
> >
-
> 
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
> > ___
> > Dbpedia-discussion mailing list
> > Dbpedia-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbpedia-discussion
> >
> >
> >
> 
> --
> 
> *Bernard Vatant
> *Knowledge Engineering
> 
> *Mondeca**
> *3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
> Web:www.mondeca.com <http://www.mondeca.com>
> 
> Tel:   +33 (0) 971 488 459
> Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Blog:Leçons de Choses <http://mondeca.wordpress.com/>


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Re: [Dbpedia-discussion] Semantic Bookmarking Service: Faviki

[Bernard Vatant]

Hi Georgi

Thanks for the pointer.

Faviki is indeed great. I'd never be convinced by any social bookmarking 
so far, because I found tags so messy, but I've adopted Faviki right 
away (http://www.faviki.com/?s=172) and I don't seem to be alone : the 
adoption curve seems to be steep since yesterday.
One interesting potential feature is the feedback towards Wikipedia 
editors themselves. They can tap in the resources indexed on their 
favourite articles to improve the article content.
So this is a good example to monitor of social semantic feedback.

Bernard


Georgi Kobilarov a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> just found a new semantic bookmarking service called Faviki [1] which
> uses DBpedia for tagging content. 
>
> Great stuff :)
>
> But I'm wondering if these guy can show some more value from using
> "semantic" tags.
> And I hope they will start publishing their data as Linked Data...
>
> Cheers,
> Georgi
>
>
> [1] http://faviki.com/
>
>
> --
> Georgi Kobilarov
> Freie Universität Berlin
> www.georgikobilarov.com
>
>
> -
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> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
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>
>   

-- 

*Bernard Vatant
*Knowledge Engineering

*Mondeca**
*3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
Web:www.mondeca.com 

Tel:   +33 (0) 971 488 459
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Blog:Leçons de Choses 



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