Re: Java applications accessibility
Okay, mediathick might not get along well with X11 and it may also fight with wayland and if that's the case, mediathick isn't ready for Linux. On Sat, 31 Aug 2019, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 16:19:19 > From: Samuel Thibault > To: Jude DaShiell > Cc: Sebastian Humenda , > debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org, giuseppecapald...@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Java applications accessibility > Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 20:19:33 + (UTC) > Resent-From: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org > > Jude DaShiell, le sam. 31 ao?t 2019 15:51:32 -0400, a ecrit: > > Was orca --replace run when that happened? > > Getting lost in the mediathekview interface happens even without > Orca. You tab between a few items, and then you get nowhere, and you can > not get back anywhere either. > > Samuel > > --
Re: Java applications accessibility
Jude DaShiell, le sam. 31 août 2019 15:51:32 -0400, a ecrit: > Was orca --replace run when that happened? Getting lost in the mediathekview interface happens even without Orca. You tab between a few items, and then you get nowhere, and you can not get back anywhere either. Samuel
Re: Java applications accessibility
Was orca --replace run when that happened? Does that java view also loose speech after orca --replace has been run? On Sat, 31 Aug 2019, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:30:16 > From: Samuel Thibault > To: Sebastian Humenda , > debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org, giuseppecapald...@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Java applications accessibility > Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 19:32:42 + (UTC) > Resent-From: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org > > Hello, > > I have had a closer look at mediathekview. > > Sebastian Humenda, le jeu. 15 ao?t 2019 14:57:42 +0200, a ecrit: > > After I had started the application and waited for Mediathekview to load > > its data, > > I got a few buttons announced. In my first attempt, > > I found the "subscriptions" tab and the "tab" key let me cycle between a few > > buttons. > > When I tried to change the tab, the whole application became quiet > > and that didn't change anymore. > > It seems that keyboard navigation within mediathekview is basically > almost inexistent or at best broken. Even with sight, I can just not > navigate through the interface. A lot of elements are also not standard > widgets and do not implement the Accessible interface. I'm afraid > mediathekview is basically inaccessible, and java-atk-wrapper can not do > anything about it. > > Samuel > > --
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hi Samuel Thibault schrieb am 31.08.2019, 21:30 +0200: >I have had a closer look at mediathekview. > >Sebastian Humenda, le jeu. 15 août 2019 14:57:42 +0200, a ecrit: >> After I had started the application and waited for Mediathekview to load its >> data, >> I got a few buttons announced. In my first attempt, >> I found the "subscriptions" tab and the "tab" key let me cycle between a few >> buttons. >> When I tried to change the tab, the whole application became quiet >> and that didn't change anymore. > >It seems that keyboard navigation within mediathekview is basically >almost inexistent or at best broken. Even with sight, I can just not >navigate through the interface. A lot of elements are also not standard […] Thanks for taking a closer look. Looking at the GitHub page, it seems as if the project had more feature request than man power. You could report an inaccessible widget as an example and mention that this is a generic problem, but I am not sure whether it would be fixed in the foreseeable future. Thanks Sebastian signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hello, I have had a closer look at mediathekview. Sebastian Humenda, le jeu. 15 août 2019 14:57:42 +0200, a ecrit: > After I had started the application and waited for Mediathekview to load its > data, > I got a few buttons announced. In my first attempt, > I found the "subscriptions" tab and the "tab" key let me cycle between a few > buttons. > When I tried to change the tab, the whole application became quiet > and that didn't change anymore. It seems that keyboard navigation within mediathekview is basically almost inexistent or at best broken. Even with sight, I can just not navigate through the interface. A lot of elements are also not standard widgets and do not implement the Accessible interface. I'm afraid mediathekview is basically inaccessible, and java-atk-wrapper can not do anything about it. Samuel
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hello Samuel Samuel Thibault schrieb am 15.08.2019, 12:03 +0200: >Samuel Thibault, le mer. 07 août 2019 14:08:26 +0200, a ecrit: >> Sebastian Humenda, le mer. 07 août 2019 13:58:13 +0200, a ecrit: >> > For Mediathekview, the story is a bit disapointing. It reads buttons >> > occasionally, but it seems to get stuck at some point and does not announce >> > anything anymore. Mouse interaction still works, Orca's flat review >> > doesn't. >> >> I'm afraid an issue with mediathekview is the 200 000-long list that >> overloads at-spi with flurries of events :/ > >I have uploaded version 0.35.0-3 which compacts one of the types of >events which mediathekview seems to be emitting a huge lot. After I had started the application and waited for Mediathekview to load its data, I got a few buttons announced. In my first attempt, I found the "subscriptions" tab and the "tab" key let me cycle between a few buttons. When I tried to change the tab, the whole application became quiet and that didn't change anymore. After a restart and pressing ctrl + tab, I ended up in the "Downloads tab." Pressing tab a few times worked until I hit a quiet area after around 5 controls from which I couldn't escape anymore. This might be the empty table view, I haven't downloaded anything yet. Thanks Sebastian signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hello, Samuel Thibault, le mer. 07 août 2019 14:08:26 +0200, a ecrit: > Sebastian Humenda, le mer. 07 août 2019 13:58:13 +0200, a ecrit: > > For Mediathekview, the story is a bit disapointing. It reads buttons > > occasionally, but it seems to get stuck at some point and does not announce > > anything anymore. Mouse interaction still works, Orca's flat review doesn't. > > I'm afraid an issue with mediathekview is the 200 000-long list that > overloads at-spi with flurries of events :/ I have uploaded version 0.35.0-3 which compacts one of the types of events which mediathekview seems to be emitting a huge lot. Samuel
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hi everyone What are other applications to test? > You can use my demos available at the following link: https://gitlab.gnome.org/giuseppecapaldo93/jaw-demo.git As Sumuel said, everything should be good With Mediathekview, the story is a bit disapointing. It reads buttons > occasionally, but it seems to get stuck at some point and does not announce > anything anymore. Mouse interaction still works, Orca's flat review > doesn't. > With Mediathekview is not very stable yet, as Samuel already said, we need to make everything more stable, since when the applications start to become more complicated and with an high number of events things are still messy.
Re: Java applications accessibility
Sebastian Humenda, le mer. 07 août 2019 13:58:13 +0200, a ecrit: > Samuel Thibault schrieb am 07.08.2019, 13:04 +0200: > >The details are in 900912, but basically java-atk-wrapper was considered > >too unstable to be enabled by default. With the rework I mentioned, I > >believe it is way more stable, but we need wide testing to be sure of > >this and convince Matthias that we can enable it by default. > What are other applications to test? I'd say "anything"... > For Mediathekview, the story is a bit disapointing. It reads buttons > occasionally, but it seems to get stuck at some point and does not announce > anything anymore. Mouse interaction still works, Orca's flat review doesn't. I'm afraid an issue with mediathekview is the 200 000-long list that overloads at-spi with flurries of events :/ Samuel
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hi Adrian Adrian Orjales schrieb am 07.08.2019, 13:07 +0200: >Have you enabled java access bridge? AFAIU this is done by enabling the ATK adaptor in /etc/java/*/accessibility.properties. Do you mean something else? Cheers Sebastian signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hi Samuel Samuel Thibault schrieb am 07.08.2019, 13:04 +0200: >The details are in 900912, but basically java-atk-wrapper was considered >too unstable to be enabled by default. With the rework I mentioned, I >believe it is way more stable, but we need wide testing to be sure of >this and convince Matthias that we can enable it by default. What are other applications to test? For Mediathekview, the story is a bit disapointing. It reads buttons occasionally, but it seems to get stuck at some point and does not announce anything anymore. Mouse interaction still works, Orca's flat review doesn't. >> 2. The default look-and-feel was not set to GTK in the newer java version >> (not >> sure about the old already configured one) and hence it couldn't work. > >Normally the non-GTK look-and-feel should be accessible as well, >actually. I have still let the troubleshoot check for it just in case. Ok, I thought it was required. Never mind. Thanks Sebastian signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Java applications accessibility
Have you enabled java access bridge? El El mié, 7 ago 2019 a las 13:04, Samuel Thibault escribió: > Hello, > > Sebastian Humenda, le mer. 07 août 2019 12:30:40 +0200, a ecrit: > > Samuel Thibault schrieb am 05.08.2019, 9:32 +0200: > > >Sebastian Humenda, le lun. 05 août 2019 08:53:57 +0200, a ecrit: > > >> I've got only one java application on my machine which is > Mediathekview. I > > >> remember that it used to be accessible, but it remains quiet. > > > > > >I do test the wrapper with that application, so it should be working. I > > >however really tested only Braille feedback. > > Thanks for the hints. There were two issues: > > > > 1. I had two java versions installed (possibly because of the upgrade to > > buster) and it was only enabled for the older one. Is this intended? > > The details are in 900912, but basically java-atk-wrapper was considered > too unstable to be enabled by default. With the rework I mentioned, I > believe it is way more stable, but we need wide testing to be sure of > this and convince Matthias that we can enable it by default. > > > 2. The default look-and-feel was not set to GTK in the newer java > version (not > > sure about the old already configured one) and hence it couldn't > work. > > Normally the non-GTK look-and-feel should be accessible as well, > actually. I have still let the troubleshoot check for it just in case. > > Samuel > >
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hello, Sebastian Humenda, le mer. 07 août 2019 12:30:40 +0200, a ecrit: > Samuel Thibault schrieb am 05.08.2019, 9:32 +0200: > >Sebastian Humenda, le lun. 05 août 2019 08:53:57 +0200, a ecrit: > >> I've got only one java application on my machine which is Mediathekview. I > >> remember that it used to be accessible, but it remains quiet. > > > >I do test the wrapper with that application, so it should be working. I > >however really tested only Braille feedback. > Thanks for the hints. There were two issues: > > 1. I had two java versions installed (possibly because of the upgrade to > buster) and it was only enabled for the older one. Is this intended? The details are in 900912, but basically java-atk-wrapper was considered too unstable to be enabled by default. With the rework I mentioned, I believe it is way more stable, but we need wide testing to be sure of this and convince Matthias that we can enable it by default. > 2. The default look-and-feel was not set to GTK in the newer java version > (not > sure about the old already configured one) and hence it couldn't work. Normally the non-GTK look-and-feel should be accessible as well, actually. I have still let the troubleshoot check for it just in case. Samuel
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hi Samuel Samuel Thibault schrieb am 05.08.2019, 9:32 +0200: >Sebastian Humenda, le lun. 05 août 2019 08:53:57 +0200, a ecrit: >> I've got only one java application on my machine which is Mediathekview. I >> remember that it used to be accessible, but it remains quiet. > >I do test the wrapper with that application, so it should be working. I >however really tested only Braille feedback. Thanks for the hints. There were two issues: 1. I had two java versions installed (possibly because of the upgrade to buster) and it was only enabled for the older one. Is this intended? 2. The default look-and-feel was not set to GTK in the newer java version (not sure about the old already configured one) and hence it couldn't work. I am assuming that the system defaulted to the more recent java 11. Thanks Sebastian -- Web: https://www.crustulus.de (English|Deutsch) | Blog: https://www.crustulus.de/blog FreeDict: Free multilingual dictionaries - http://www.freedict.org Freies Latein-Deutsch-Wörterbuch: https://www.crustulus.de/freedict.de.html signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Java applications accessibility
Sebastian Humenda, le lun. 05 août 2019 08:53:57 +0200, a ecrit: > I've got only one java application on my machine which is Mediathekview. I > remember that it used to be accessible, but it remains quiet. I do test the wrapper with that application, so it should be working. I however really tested only Braille feedback. > $ tail -n 1 /etc/java-10-openjdk/accessibility.properties > assistive_technologies=org.GNOME.Accessibility.AtkWrapper Could you also run the troubleshoot script from the check-a11y repository? Samuel
Re: Java applications accessibility
Hi Samuel Samuel Thibault schrieb am 02.08.2019, 19:55 +0200: >I have uploaded version 0.35.0 of java-atk-wrapper in Gnome and >Debian. This includes a huge pile of fixes and revamp, notably achieved >by Giuseppe Capaldo, here to thanked. Thanks four your work! I've got only one java application on my machine which is Mediathekview. I remember that it used to be accessible, but it remains quiet. $ tail -n 1 /etc/java-10-openjdk/accessibility.properties assistive_technologies=org.GNOME.Accessibility.AtkWrapper Can anybody confirm this? What other applications could be used for testing? Thanks Sebastian signature.asc Description: PGP signature
