Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robbi, first of all: thanks a lot for your great software! It really with all aspects of maintenance of bibliographies much simpler. Robby Stephenson wrote: On Friday 25 May 2007, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: The situation is the following: I normally use the english interface for tellico (and KDE and etc.) and everything works fine. Now I asked a secretary to create a new bibliography with a pile of books and other references to be imported into mine. With her's it's German 'Literaturverzeichnis'. If I open her *.tc into my English interfaced tellico, I get German labels and German content. OK, that's the expected behavior. Yes. When I import this collection into my existing data base (Tellico: File - Import - Import (append)), the fields get translated and the editor becomes publisher (see attached screenshot). I'm still a bit confused about what the problem is. When a .tc file is appended, the field titles are never used to match fields. Only the field names, which are never translated. So I think the original problem is that, because of the switched translations, your secretary put the editor data in the publisher field, or vice-versa. Yes. I admit that this is a rare sequence of events, but it leads to a corrupted data base for both tellico's file format *and* the exported bibtex. I'm not sure I would call it corrupted. Tellico doesn't know anything about the field title. So if you create a new book collection, change the title of the publisher field to be author, then try to import that collection into a different file, every value you put in that field will end up as a publisher because the field _names_ are never changed. Well, the default translation of the fields to German is/was wrong, so if you have two people exchanging files, say from German to English, then the data entered as 'Herausgeber' (editor) would show up as 'publisher'. I don't know a better term of how to call it in English, but data entered as 'A' ends up as 'B'. No, as explained above. It's not a data loss in the sense that a file is lost, but *information* is lost/corrupted. I don't know how to parse tellico's .tc files through a bash script or something in order to fix it. It sounds like you just need to open the field editor and change the title of the field. Yes. That 'fixes' it. My 'fix' at present is just to tell the secretary to enter the name of the publisher into the field called 'Herausgeber' (editor) etc. If I followed everything right, then the field called 'Herausgeber' (editor) is _actually_ the publisher field indeed. If that's the cause, then yes, that sounds like the best solution. Or like I said, just rename 'Herausgeber'. Thanks for your suggestions. To summarize: the mistranslation of the German 'field title' leads to files, where data is entered wrong according to the 'field name'. Thanks to the flexibility of tellico's data format, it is rather easy to work around this problem. Cheers, Johannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGXCrHC1NzPRl9qEURAul0AJ942B6aZ8xwNMdPfd/uIlGRbJLf+ACfa7Qn 978yl5QuNWKJljMd0BvSqh4= =7HyT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
On Friday 25 May 2007, Jens Seidel wrote: On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 11:07:01AM +0100, Regis Boudin wrote: These translations are still in the upstream svn, CCing Jens who takes care of the de translation so I can get his input and possibly a fix for it. I attached a patch against the SVN version. Robby, please test and apply. Looks good. Just checked in. Robby -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
On Friday 25 May 2007, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: The situation is the following: I normally use the english interface for tellico (and KDE and etc.) and everything works fine. Now I asked a secretary to create a new bibliography with a pile of books and other references to be imported into mine. With her's it's German 'Literaturverzeichnis'. If I open her *.tc into my English interfaced tellico, I get German labels and German content. OK, that's the expected behavior. When I import this collection into my existing data base (Tellico: File - Import - Import (append)), the fields get translated and the editor becomes publisher (see attached screenshot). I'm still a bit confused about what the problem is. When a .tc file is appended, the field titles are never used to match fields. Only the field names, which are never translated. So I think the original problem is that, because of the switched translations, your secretary put the editor data in the publisher field, or vice-versa. I admit that this is a rare sequence of events, but it leads to a corrupted data base for both tellico's file format *and* the exported bibtex. I'm not sure I would call it corrupted. Tellico doesn't know anything about the field title. So if you create a new book collection, change the title of the publisher field to be author, then try to import that collection into a different file, every value you put in that field will end up as a publisher because the field _names_ are never changed. No, as explained above. It's not a data loss in the sense that a file is lost, but *information* is lost/corrupted. I don't know how to parse tellico's .tc files through a bash script or something in order to fix it. It sounds like you just need to open the field editor and change the title of the field. My 'fix' at present is just to tell the secretary to enter the name of the publisher into the field called 'Herausgeber' (editor) etc. If I followed everything right, then the field called 'Herausgeber' (editor) is _actually_ the publisher field indeed. If that's the cause, then yes, that sounds like the best solution. Or like I said, just rename 'Herausgeber'. Robby -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
On Friday 25 May 2007, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: field flags=7 title=Autor category=Allgemein format=2 type=1 name=author [snip] field flags=6 title=Herausgeber category=Ausgabe format=0 type=1 name=publisher prop name=bibtex publisher/prop /field \- To me for any data base it makes perfect sense to always keep a language independent label for its entries. I agree. And the label for that field above is publisher, given in the name attribute. The title of the field can be anything you want, that's the user-visible string. Underneath, the name publisher never changes. As it is at present an alternating editing in German and English will lead to data corruption, ie. an editor will become a publisher, an author an editor. Only because the user-visible string is wrong. Once that is corrected, there should no longer be an issue, if I understand this correctly. The Tellico format is very simple. It's only a zip file containing an XML file and pictures. And Tellico can open and export to the pure XML format too, if you want use that. How would I edit that in a convenient manner? (Is there a better way than unzip / text editor / zip?) Well, you can skip the unzip/zip steps by File-Export-Export XML. Edit that, then open it like a normal data file. When you save it, it will not revert to zip, it will stay unzipped XML. To save as a zip, File-Export-Export Zip Robby -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
Package: tellico
Version: 1.2.5-1
Severity: grave
Justification: causes non-serious data loss
The German translation is errenous.
'Editor' is translated as 'Verfasser', but 'Verfasser' means author. Correct
translation would be 'Herausgeber'.
'Publisher' is translated as 'Herausgeber', but 'Herausgeber' means editor.
Correct translation would be 'Verlag'.
'Organization' is translated as 'Unternehmen', but might be better translated
simply as 'Organisation'.
The resulting data base is unusable by external tools like Latex, hence 'causes
non-serious data loss'.
I include a bibtex export for a 'book', where I used Tellico's description as
content for the various fields.
@book{Bibtex-schluessel,
title = {Titel},
author = {Autor},
booktitle = {Buch-Titel},
editor = {Verfasser},
organization = {Unternehmen},
publisher = {Herausgeber},
address = {Adresse},
edition = {Auflage},
pages = {Seiten},
year = 1000,
journal = {Zeitung},
month = {12},
number = 1,
howpublished = {art d. V.},
chapter = 1,
series = {Serie},
volume = 1,
crossref = {Querverweis}
}
Johannes
-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
APT prefers stable
APT policy: (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-4-686
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Versions of packages tellico depends on:
ii kdelibs4c2a4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-8 core libraries and binaries for al
ii libc6 2.3.6.ds1-13 GNU C Library: Shared libraries
ii libgcc11:4.1.1-21GCC support library
ii libkcal2b 4:3.5.5.dfsg.1-6 KDE calendaring library
ii libkcddb1 4:3.5.5-2 CDDB library for KDE
ii libqt3-mt 3:3.3.7-4 Qt GUI Library (Threaded runtime v
ii libstdc++6 4.1.1-21 The GNU Standard C++ Library v3
ii libtag1c2a 1.4-4 TagLib Audio Meta-Data Library
ii libxml22.6.27.dfsg-1 GNOME XML library
ii libxslt1.1 1.1.19-1 XSLT processing library - runtime
ii libyaz22.1.18-2 The YAZ Z39.50 toolkit (runtime fi
ii tellico-data 1.2.5-1 collection manager for books, vide
tellico recommends no packages.
-- no debconf information
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Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
tags 425968 +upstream
found 425968 1.2.11-1
severity 425968 important
thanks
Hi,
This loss of data is not in the sense that it will actually make existing
data disappear and break your existing collection, rather it doesn't
export them in the expected format. So I'm lowering priority to non-RC.
This bug is present in Etch. I will try to get a fix included in a point
release, but I can't promise it will be accepted by the SRMs.
These translations are still in the upstream svn, CCing Jens who takes
care of the de translation so I can get his input and possibly a fix for
it.
Thanks for the report,
Regis
On Fri, May 25, 2007 10:36, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
Package: tellico
Version: 1.2.5-1
Severity: grave
Justification: causes non-serious data loss
The German translation is errenous.
'Editor' is translated as 'Verfasser', but 'Verfasser' means author.
Correct translation would be 'Herausgeber'.
'Publisher' is translated as 'Herausgeber', but 'Herausgeber' means
editor. Correct translation would be 'Verlag'.
'Organization' is translated as 'Unternehmen', but might be better
translated simply as 'Organisation'.
The resulting data base is unusable by external tools like Latex, hence
'causes non-serious data loss'.
I include a bibtex export for a 'book', where I used Tellico's description
as content for the various fields.
@book{Bibtex-schluessel,
title = {Titel},
author = {Autor},
booktitle = {Buch-Titel},
editor = {Verfasser},
organization = {Unternehmen},
publisher = {Herausgeber},
address = {Adresse},
edition = {Auflage},
pages = {Seiten},
year = 1000,
journal = {Zeitung},
month = {12},
number = 1,
howpublished = {art d. V.},
chapter = 1,
series = {Serie},
volume = 1,
crossref = {Querverweis}
}
Johannes
-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
APT prefers stable
APT policy: (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-4-686
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Versions of packages tellico depends on:
ii kdelibs4c2a4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-8 core libraries and binaries
for al
ii libc6 2.3.6.ds1-13 GNU C Library: Shared
libraries
ii libgcc11:4.1.1-21GCC support library
ii libkcal2b 4:3.5.5.dfsg.1-6 KDE calendaring library
ii libkcddb1 4:3.5.5-2 CDDB library for KDE
ii libqt3-mt 3:3.3.7-4 Qt GUI Library (Threaded
runtime v
ii libstdc++6 4.1.1-21 The GNU Standard C++ Library
v3
ii libtag1c2a 1.4-4 TagLib Audio Meta-Data
Library
ii libxml22.6.27.dfsg-1 GNOME XML library
ii libxslt1.1 1.1.19-1 XSLT processing library -
runtime
ii libyaz22.1.18-2 The YAZ Z39.50 toolkit
(runtime fi
ii tellico-data 1.2.5-1 collection manager for books,
vide
tellico recommends no packages.
-- no debconf information
Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
Hi! On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 11:07:01AM +0100, Regis Boudin wrote: This loss of data is not in the sense that it will actually make existing data disappear and break your existing collection, rather it doesn't export them in the expected format. So I'm lowering priority to non-RC. This bug is present in Etch. I will try to get a fix included in a point release, but I can't promise it will be accepted by the SRMs. Right, such a bug was fixed recently and demonstrated that BiBTeX collections seem only rarely used in Tellico. I used it only once in the past ... These translations are still in the upstream svn, CCing Jens who takes care of the de translation so I can get his input and possibly a fix for it. Johannes is right about his corrections. I will fix it in Tellico. To be honest these strings are very similar and I did not translate these. I also did not yet verified these translations live for each kind of collection. But please be aware that these field titles are written translated into the Tellico file. A fix in Tellico would *not* update the translations in your collection. You could change the field titles directly in the *.tc file. This is probably the simplest solution and you do not need to wait for an update. Justification: causes non-serious data loss The German translation is errenous. I just assume that the data loss and the translation issues are unrelated. Please try to open two separate bugs for this in the future. The resulting data base is unusable by external tools like Latex, hence 'causes non-serious data loss'. You could also join the Tellico user list to discuss your experiences and wishes in more detail. So I would like to know how to use LaTeX macros for BibTeX strings to influence sorting, ... I know how to do this without Tellico but never tried it with this application. Jens -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
Hi again, Jens, if you don't want to receive more messages from this bug, say so. On Fri, May 25, 2007 13:05, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: This loss of data is not in the sense that it will actually make existing data disappear and break your existing collection, rather it doesn't export them in the expected format. So I'm lowering priority to non-RC. OK. However, it doesn't just concern the exported format, but also tellico's native format. (I didn't know how to open and parse that, so I chose the more concise bibtex export). The situation is the following: I normally use the english interface for tellico (and KDE and etc.) and everything works fine. Now I asked a secretary to create a new bibliography with a pile of books and other references to be imported into mine. With her's it's German 'Literaturverzeichnis'. If I open her *.tc into my English interfaced tellico, I get German labels and German content. When I import this collection into my existing data base (Tellico: File - Import - Import (append)), the fields get translated and the editor becomes publisher (see attached screenshot). I admit that this is a rare sequence of events, but it leads to a corrupted data base for both tellico's file format *and* the exported bibtex. Ok, now it's getting clear. I don't believe Tellico is originally designed to handle multiple languages gracefully like you seem to expect, as the field names are only defined by their names, different in each language. I guess it works (partially) in your case because the bibliography collection keeps the author/editor/$field for exporting purpose. - From 'zless xxx.tc' /- field flags=7 title=Verfasser category=Allgemein format=2 type=1 name=editor \- Ie. the wrong translations are included in the generated .tc file. Yep, I would expect that. Jens Seidel wrote: [snip] Justification: causes non-serious data loss The German translation is errenous. I just assume that the data loss and the translation issues are unrelated. Please try to open two separate bugs for this in the future. No, as explained above. It's not a data loss in the sense that a file is lost, but *information* is lost/corrupted. I don't know how to parse tellico's .tc files through a bash script or something in order to fix it. The Tellico format is very simple. It's only a zip file containing an XML file and pictures. And Tellico can open and export to the pure XML format too, if you want use that. My 'fix' at present is just to tell the secretary to enter the name of the publisher into the field called 'Herausgeber' (editor) etc. I guess simply renaming the fields in the German file might work. Not the best solution, but it could be temporary solution. I believe Robby is still subscribed to the PTS, so he might bring some more informations and correct what I have wrong. Regis
Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 03:24:47PM +0100, Regis Boudin wrote:
Jens, if you don't want to receive more messages from this bug, say so.
The opposite is true, I will subscribe to the PTS ...
On Fri, May 25, 2007 13:05, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
The situation is the following: I normally use the english interface for
tellico (and KDE and etc.) and everything works fine. Now I asked a
secretary to create a new bibliography with a pile of books and other
references to be imported into mine. With her's it's German
'Literaturverzeichnis'. If I open her *.tc into my English interfaced
tellico, I get German labels and German content. When I import this
collection into my existing data base (Tellico: File - Import - Import
(append)), the fields get translated and the editor becomes publisher
Please note that fields do not get translated if you open the file. The
file contains already the translations.
Of course, because of the wrong translation ... Just swap the fields in
your memory :-) But you should also able to edit the fields of the
collection and rename it!?
(see attached screenshot).
(Boring literature, it's physical but the title do not even contains
math formulas :-) I have such a collection and see only $\mathcal{A}$x=y)
Be happy not to obtain Author and Autor, Month and Monat
fields which I would expect (at least for a non-standad collection) :-)
I admit that this is a rare sequence of events, but it leads to a
corrupted data base for both tellico's file format *and* the exported
bibtex.
I don't consider this a rare event. Switching the language should always
be possible. See
http://forge.novell.com/pipermail/tellico-users/2007-February/001232.html
for a few more details.
But again: The only problem you noticed is that the Publisher and
Editor fields are swapped, because this is also true for the German
strings? It should of course be fixed in Tellico but I'm really sure you
can modify your collection file as well. Maybe even using the GUI.
No, as explained above. It's not a data loss in the sense that a file is
lost, but *information* is lost/corrupted. I don't know how to parse
tellico's .tc files through a bash script or something in order to fix it.
The command file is your friend ...
My 'fix' at present is just to tell the secretary to enter the name of
the publisher into the field called 'Herausgeber' (editor) etc.
Right!
I guess simply renaming the fields in the German file might work. Not
the best solution, but it could be temporary solution.
Also right! But do not use both tricks!
Jens
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Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Regis Boudin wrote: Hi again, Jens, if you don't want to receive more messages from this bug, say so. On Fri, May 25, 2007 13:05, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: This loss of data is not in the sense that it will actually make existing data disappear and break your existing collection, rather it doesn't export them in the expected format. So I'm lowering priority to non-RC. OK. However, it doesn't just concern the exported format, but also tellico's native format. (I didn't know how to open and parse that, so I chose the more concise bibtex export). The situation is the following: I normally use the english interface for tellico (and KDE and etc.) and everything works fine. Now I asked a secretary to create a new bibliography with a pile of books and other references to be imported into mine. With her's it's German 'Literaturverzeichnis'. If I open her *.tc into my English interfaced tellico, I get German labels and German content. When I import this collection into my existing data base (Tellico: File - Import - Import (append)), the fields get translated and the editor becomes publisher (see attached screenshot). I admit that this is a rare sequence of events, but it leads to a corrupted data base for both tellico's file format *and* the exported bibtex. Ok, now it's getting clear. I don't believe Tellico is originally designed to handle multiple languages gracefully like you seem to expect, as the field names are only defined by their names, different in each language. I guess it works (partially) in your case because the bibliography collection keeps the author/editor/$field for exporting purpose. Are you sure? I just created a new user with an empty profile etc. On first log-in I just chose German als language/location. I edited a new 'Literaturverzeichnis' (bibliography) like the one before. This contains lines like /- field flags=7 title=Autor category=Allgemein format=2 type=1 name=author [snip] field flags=6 title=Herausgeber category=Ausgabe format=0 type=1 name=publisher prop name=bibtex publisher/prop /field \- etc., despite I never used exporting for that new profile. To me for any data base it makes perfect sense to always keep a language independent label for its entries. As it is at present an alternating editing in German and English will lead to data corruption, ie. an editor will become a publisher, an author an editor. Besides, a German user cannot enter a publisher, because that field is erroneously named 'editor' (Herausgeber), etc. [snip] The Tellico format is very simple. It's only a zip file containing an XML file and pictures. And Tellico can open and export to the pure XML format too, if you want use that. How would I edit that in a convenient manner? (Is there a better way than unzip / text editor / zip?) My 'fix' at present is just to tell the secretary to enter the name of the publisher into the field called 'Herausgeber' (editor) etc. I guess simply renaming the fields in the German file might work. Not the best solution, but it could be temporary solution. I will do that. Thanks again. Johannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGVwYrC1NzPRl9qEURAkC/AJ4hXLnjSNoZsha2AKO5ZtpZMMmpMQCeMEcD br+DgvBql9rsnSeFDVSbxqQ= =dacT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#425968: tellico: wrong translation to German
On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 11:07:01AM +0100, Regis Boudin wrote: These translations are still in the upstream svn, CCing Jens who takes care of the de translation so I can get his input and possibly a fix for it. I attached a patch against the SVN version. Robby, please test and apply. 'Editor' is translated as 'Verfasser', but 'Verfasser' means author. Correct translation would be 'Herausgeber'. 'Publisher' is translated as 'Herausgeber', but 'Herausgeber' means editor. Correct translation would be 'Verlag'. Publisher is also used in games collections. Probably the old translation would be better since publisher is as far as I know restricted to books, newspapers, ... I added content information to allow different translations but used everywhere the same translation as Publisher except in German. 'Organization' is translated as 'Unternehmen', but might be better translated simply as 'Organisation'. Not as serious as the others, but 'journal' should be better translated as 'Zeitschrift' rather than 'Zeitung'. I agree for scientific publications. Since this string was also used in book collections, Magazine vs. Journal, I just swapped the old translations to Zeitung vs. Zeitschrift. This should be OK, as it just describes the type of the paper and doesn't need to match the English string to 100%. The resulting data base is unusable by external tools like Latex, hence 'causes non-serious data loss'. That's not true. Maybe for some bibliography styles the ordering is not optimal but there could be others where it doesn't care. Jens publisher.diff.gz Description: Binary data
