On Wed, Oct 05, 2022 at 02:13:16PM +0200, Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues
wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> Quoting Steve Langasek (2022-09-09 07:09:32)
> > My feedback to you on IRC was that I think it's inappropriate for you to go
> > package-by-package in the BTS to the packages in the
On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 05:36:13PM +0100, Matthew Vernon wrote:
> On 09/09/2022 19:45, Sean Whitton wrote:
> > Hello,
> > On Thu 08 Sep 2022 at 10:09PM -07, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > > For the record I do not consider this an override requiring a
> > > supermajor
tainer override, a super majority is
> required.
For the record I do not consider this an override requiring a
supermajority and would abide by a majority TC decision.
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chnical Committee exists as a decision-making body of last
resort, when consensus is not possible (because two parties have
incompatible goals, or because discussion is not converging on agreement
fast enough to matter).
Do you believe that Debian should not have such a decision-ma
Debian, but it is not Debian; Debian is not
responsible for bugs in Sparky. You will need to contact them for support,
as Don indicated.
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atch
reality, that seems worth addressing.
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.
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.
741573_menu_systems/keithp_draft.txt includes further guidance regarding the
technical details of how to map between the menu system and .desktop files.
Since this is not on the ballot itself, how do we intend to surface this so
that it can be useful to the Policy process?
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because of the process involved, but the preferred method of using
debian-policy@lists for this didn't work either in this case.
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been,
regardless of whether there was any malicious intent).
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slanga
Apologies for the previous subject, this is a request to reschedule the TC
BoF, *not* the SPI BoF :)
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 05:35:45PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
During today's TC meeting, the topic of the TC BoF at DebConf15 was brought
up. This gave me occasion to look at the DC schedule
Heidelberg the morning of the 19th.
Would it be possible to move this BoF on the schedule to earlier in the
week?
FWIW I've added the TC members I know to be in attendance at DC15 to the
event in summit.debconf.org, which will hopefully help finding a suitable
time.
Thanks,
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Steve Langasek
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 08:08:27AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
I here-by call for a vote on the following text (option A); the other
option is FD.
I vote A FD.
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: Further Discussion
===END
I vote C D
===BEGIN
The Technical Committee recommends that Didier Raboud (odyx) be
appointed by the Debian Project Leader to the Technical Committee.
E: Recommend to Appoint Didier Raboud (odyx)
F: Further Discussion
===END
I vote E F
Thanks,
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to a vote if you
are.
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On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 01:56:41PM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015, Steve Langasek wrote:
I believe this covers everything I was concerned about, no further edits
warranted from my side. I'm happy for this to be called to a vote if you
are.
I call for a vote
of
the columns. I think it's appropriate for the Debian maintainer and the
coreutils upstream to do their own analysis of the cost/benefit tradeoff
here, without the TC presuming to meddle.
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for IEC output (2^10).
The CTTE declines to override the decision of the maintainer and
upstream.
==END==
Please vote [A] for Decline to override, and [FD] for Further
Discussion.
I vote A, FD.
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declines to override the decision of the maintainer and
upstream.
==END==
I suspect the options to be [A] Decline to override and [FD]. Does
anyone object to proceeding? [If there are no objections from CTTE
members or DDs, I will call for votes in 48 hours.]
No objection.
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is the
right solution here; I don't think that it is. But I also don't think that
the release freeze can reasonably be an argument against it.
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Ubuntu
in good faith, that is not an attack on that
maintainer.
Whereas you, on the other hand, are way out of line with your comment.
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reject this
characterization that only two people are doing the work of the committee.
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and was reopened, with a subsequent history that
in no way explains why it's been marked as grave?
Regardless, I don't think the RC bugs will be fixed is still not an excuse
for enforcing a different set of bugs via the dependencies of
libpam-systemd.
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they don't want this done automatically on upgrade
without notification to the user.
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. But it
wasn't theoretical.
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the systemd transition anymore. Does that address your concern,
Russ?
It absolutely does not address the problem, because if it weren't driving
the systemd transition in at least some cases (and it is), *there would be
no reason not to list systemd-shim as the first alternative*.
--
Steve
depending on such a
Bvirtual package should specify a real package in main as the first
Balternative, e.g. Depends: package-in-main | virtual-interface.
B
B 10. The Technical Committee requests that the policy editors make
Ban appropriate clarification to the policy documents.
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Steve
On Sat, Aug 02, 2014 at 07:56:41PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
As previously agreed in the IRC meeting, I call for votes on this question
with the following ballot options:
A non-free packages as non-default alternatives should not be prohibited in
main
B non-free packages should
(apparently, an
informal comment from a member of the release team was mistaken for a
release team position, so that's now being revisited), so I don't believe
this is anything we need to put on the agenda for tomorrow despite being on
the open bug list.
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.
Thanks. As far as I'm concerned, this is the desired outcome; I'm glad
you and Adam have gotten there on your own.
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in that case.
Thoughts?
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support without a compelling reason.
[1] See #746715 for background.
-- resolution text ends
I vote Y, FD.
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a
default would not prevent Debian from supporting other init systems, I would
like to hear from those members how they think this should be addressed.
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On Fri, May 02, 2014 at 04:50:51PM -0700, Bdale Garbee wrote:
Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org writes:
Package: tech-ctte
An Ubuntu developer just brought the following Debian changelog entry to my
attention:
tftp-hpa (5.2-17) experimental; urgency=low
* Removing upstart
-d'Thu May 29 17:00:00 UTC 2014'
I will be out of the country on business that week, so can't guarantee my
availability (though it will be 7pm local time, so there's at least a chance
I will be available). Thursday, May 22 would be better for me.
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.
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.
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but by no means guaranteed.
I don't feel the need to demand a reschedule of course, so if this time
still works for others, and I don't make it, then have a good meeting :-)
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the past.
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A Advice: sysvinit compatibility in jessie and multiple init support
FD Further discussion
(I have removed the proponents' names from the summary lines.)
I vote:
L A N FD
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in this thread, and it's
not at all clear which are stillborn and which people think warrant carrying
forward.
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to make excuses for it.
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systemd as PID1. So there may be some bugs here, but I
have yet to receive any bug reports on the systemd-shim package pointing to
a problem with systemd-shim vs. systemd compatibility.
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in the drafting process, which is just as much an exploit of the
voting system as tactical voting is. But this barrage of CFVs only
compounds the problem.
I do support the idea of fixing the constitution to require a minimum
discussion period on ballots for TC resolutions.
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Steve Langasek
of interest has resulted in a
wrong decision being taken, they have the authority to override the TC with
a GR.
But until then, kindly stop distracting the committee from its rightful
business.
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that the whole committee can support.
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from the TC is likely to be counterproductive; it
allows for rapid iteration on ballot options, but to little effect if those
options don't actually have consensus behind them.
So I think on-list drafting is probably best here.
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is delegated
or not.
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issues.
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maintainers are the maintainers of the policy document, they are
not maintainers of the relevant software in this context.
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of the full
TC.
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they should block on
it...
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-agnostic environment, this is exactly what Ubuntu is doing
today. More time has been wasted on this back-and-forth over whether it's
possible to make these dbus services work on top of upstart, than it took to
actually put the systemd-shim package into Debian.
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fragmenting the
archive.
Since this vote will almost certainly result in a resolution passing, I
think I will need to begin drafting a follow-up resolution to address this,
under 6.1.1.
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and unsolvable race conditions for another cycle.
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of init system selection for Debian.
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dependencies)? Work on
cgmanager+systemd-shim is progressing, but it would be best to know when it
needs to be available in Debian in order to unblock you for systemd v205.
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people.
I'd like to believe this; however, the fact that bug #726763 is still open
leads me to fear otherwise.
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lip
service to the idea of supporting multiple init systems and should instead
explicitly declare that only one init system is supported.
Thus, for me, all of the T variants in Ian's latest draft
(21226.41292.366504.997...@chiark.greenend.org.uk) rank below FD.
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no
intention of accepting patches from maintainers of non-default init systems
to provide compatibility unless forced to do so by the TC; but as you're not
a maintainer of the package, that doesn't seem relevant here.
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On Sat, Feb 01, 2014 at 07:28:49PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
Steve Langasek writes (Bug#727708: multiple init systems - formal resolution
proposal):
Thus, for me, all of the T variants in Ian's latest draft
(21226.41292.366504.997...@chiark.greenend.org.uk) rank below FD.
In my mail
the decision has been taken on the
default init system). As things stand today, a dependency on systemd-shim |
systemd-sysv would fix the bug for our users without forcing a change of
init system on upgrade.
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On Sat, Feb 01, 2014 at 12:34:19PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org writes:
The above 'block' would be tantamount to an assertion that you have no
intention of accepting patches from maintainers of non-default init
systems to provide compatibility unless forced
maintainers be willing to upload such a change? Or would
they be ok with me NMUing gnome-settings-daemon for it?
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On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 04:59:10PM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
The next CTTE meeting is at date -d 'Thu Jan 30 18:00:00 UTC 2014' in
#debian-ctte on irc.debian.org
FYI, I'm travelling this week and don't believe I'll make it to this
meeting.
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procedural reasons that Ian raised.
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that this is
not an endorsement of CLAs.
But perhaps this doesn't satisfy Keith's concern. (Perhaps neither wording
does.)
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On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 07:09:51PM -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de writes:
On 2014-01-19 23:18:26 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
As you say that planned features or development could sway your opinion:
are
there particular features that you have in mind, here
we
aren't going to choose sysvinit.
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something along the lines I
suggest there, unless anyone objects.
No objection; I think that's the right way to go.
Thanks,
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-Linux ports. Maybe that's an
important factor for Debian, maybe it's not; but I don't want us to be
fooled into believing the choice of init system doesn't have an impact on
whether that consolidation will happen.
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even been mentioned on this bug:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/01/msg00258.html
While I realize there are a lot of threads to keep up with in this
discussion, it would help everyone with the task of keeping up to not have
outdated information repeated unnecessarily ;)
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that at least Russ would be strongly opposed to this because it's too
prescriptive. Probably not much sense in fleshing out such a resolution if
there's not a consensus for it.
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of the minor
details.
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features or development could sway your opinion: are
there particular features that you have in mind, here? For instance,
correcting upstart's socket-based activation interface is on the upstart
roadmap in the jessie timeframe.
Thanks,
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arguments. I don't think that adding
to the TC's incoming mail load is going to help the process of reaching a
sound decision.
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.
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.
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resolved in unstable, with the split of sysvinit
contents out of the Essential: yes sysvinit into sysvinit-core. (A
necessary precondition for switching to either systemd-sysv or upstart for
jessie.)
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On Sat, Jan 04, 2014 at 11:08:36AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org writes:
On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 04:40:54PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
I'd prefer to leave it in. Upstream's opinions aside, systemd is free
software and if someone wants to try to port
see there is only one outstanding Ubuntu patch required to make logind v204
runnable without PID1 in Debian.
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.
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slanga...@ubuntu.com vor
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 09:52:04PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org writes:
Upstart (as implemented in Ubuntu) restores this guarantee (with
provisions for failsafe booting in the case of a wrong network config),
and it takes advantage of upstart's capability
systemd for adoption, so having identified a critical problem I
didn't dig very much farther to determine if this was fixable within the
constraints of systemd's dependency system.
Thanks,
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On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 07:08:34PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 11:15:33AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
Similarly, I'm not sure why the focus on only adding necessary tools to
the initramfs image. Surely this doesn't matter much if the tools are
harmless when unneeded
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 09:52:37PM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Ian Jackson
Steve Langasek writes (Bug#727708: systemd-shim uploaded to NEW):
So I repeat here my request that the systemd maintainers make a suitable
split of the systemd binary package, so that systemd-shim
requires no part of systemd (unless you count udev as systemd
now). It's only the desktop environments which have dependencies on these
dbus interfaces.
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rather than have it be inconsistent. Either way,
you'd need a NEWS entry, etc., so that seems cleaner to me.
Agreed.
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On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 01:16:32AM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote:
Steve Langasek wrote:
Looking more closely, I find that one of the conflicting files is a conffile
(/etc/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.systemd1.conf). diversions and
conffiles still don't mix, AFAIK (and according to current
to the position
statement.
Cameron, as per the first paragraph, please do not change the page directly,
but discuss any proposed changes with me first.
Thanks,
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it is; but there are many x86
platforms where the bootloader doesn't have particularly impressive I/O
performance, and having to load a large initramfs before booting the kernel
has a major impact on boot speed.
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, if one of the arguments for systemd is
socket activation, then I think we should explore the limits of how we think
it should be used.)
Thanks,
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too aggressive. :/
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automatically at boot.
This seems to be a quote from the 1.6.1 version of the manpage, in wheezy.
The user session support in the current releases of upstart (the only
implementation that's been used in production in Ubuntu) doesn't work this
way; and the manpage has been updated to match.
--
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On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 05:35:49PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
Steve Langasek writes (Re: Bug#727708: upstart user jobs):
On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:31:57PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
I have some questions about these. Forgive me if I could just have
looked up the answers
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 06:29:10PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
Steve Langasek writes (Bug#727708: systemd-shim uploaded to NEW):
So I repeat here my request that the systemd maintainers make a suitable
split of the systemd binary package, so that systemd-shim will be
coinstallable
.
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slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org
from
a terminal.
Cheers,
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slanga...@ubuntu.com
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 01:03:48PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
This would be quite wrong; Replaces is not supposed to be used like
that (but you apparently know that).
Yes. Raphaël rightly points out that dpkg-divert can be used for this; if
necessary, that's what I'll do.
But I still
sense to not
reinvent the wheel unnecessarily. No one ever tried to reimplement logind
for Ubuntu, at all. Why should they, when logind is already a perfectly
usable implementation of logind?
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