]] Russ Allbery
> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
> > ]] Russ Allbery
>
> >> Thanks, Tollef! Okay, so there does appear to be a conflict here. It
> >> sounds like your primary technical concern, not addressed by Martin's
> >> mail, is that getting the dependencies right to install systemd on
> >> ini
]] Tollef Fog Heen
> ]] Martin Pitt
>
> > Tollef Fog Heen [2014-10-21 19:19 +0200]:
> > > > I would be particularly interested in your take on the analysis that
> > > > Steve
> > > > Langasek posted to the debian-devel thread on why listing systemd-shim
> > > > as
> > > > the first alternativ
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 07:19:32PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> An important detail is, that on upgrades, we keep the sysvinit package
> installed, which ships /lib/sysvinit/init. This makes it very easy to
> boot using sysvinit, even if systemd is the default /sbin/init. We
> proposed a patch f
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 08:49:20PM -0700, Cameron Norman wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:21:27PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> >> > "Josh" == Josh Triplett writes:
> >>
> >> Josh> - It can't check for generated lines for serial c
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 01:31:55PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > I would even go so far as to say that it's good that we're exposing these
> > bugs now, during our release preparation process, so that they can be
> > fixed prior to jessie. We need systemd-shim to work properly in jessie if
> >
]] Martin Pitt
> Tollef Fog Heen [2014-10-21 19:19 +0200]:
> > > I would be particularly interested in your take on the analysis that Steve
> > > Langasek posted to the debian-devel thread on why listing systemd-shim as
> > > the first alternative dependency for libpam-systemd makes sense and sho
I think you got bit by the Mail-Followup-To and your messages didn't make
it to the CTTE bug.
Tollef Fog Heen writes:
> ]] Russ Allbery
>> Thanks, Tollef! Okay, so there does appear to be a conflict here. It
>> sounds like your primary technical concern, not addressed by Martin's
>> mail, is t
]] Ian Jackson
> Russ Allbery writes ("Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on
> upgrade for init system switch?"):
> > Thanks, Tollef! Okay, so there does appear to be a conflict here. It
> > sounds like your primary technical concern, not addressed b
]] Russ Allbery
> Thanks, Tollef! Okay, so there does appear to be a conflict here. It
> sounds like your primary technical concern, not addressed by Martin's
> mail, is that getting the dependencies right to install systemd on
> initial install but not upgrade to it are tricky and have a lot of
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Josh Triplett wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:21:27PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
>> > "Josh" == Josh Triplett writes:
>>
>> Josh> - It can't check for generated lines for serial consoles or
>> Josh> similar; finish-install can generate various addit
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:21:27PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> > "Josh" == Josh Triplett writes:
>
> Josh> - It can't check for generated lines for serial consoles or
> Josh> similar; finish-install can generate various additional
> Josh> inittab lines, which the check should incl
> "Josh" == Josh Triplett writes:
Josh> - It can't check for generated lines for serial consoles or
Josh> similar; finish-install can generate various additional
Josh> inittab lines, which the check should include.
Since when did systemd actually handle these correctly?
I've gene
Tollef Fog Heen [2014-10-21 19:19 +0200]:
> > I would be particularly interested in your take on the analysis that Steve
> > Langasek posted to the debian-devel thread on why listing systemd-shim as
> > the first alternative dependency for libpam-systemd makes sense and should
> > not cause any neg
]] Cameron Norman
Please trim bits you're not replying to.
> El mar, 21 de oct 2014 a las 10:19 , Tollef Fog Heen
> escribió:
> > ]] Russ Allbery
> >> I would be particularly interested in your take on the analysis
> >> that Steve Langasek posted to the debian-devel thread on why
> >> listing
El mar, 21 de oct 2014 a las 10:19 , Tollef Fog Heen
escribió:
]] Russ Allbery
Hello Russ, CTTE,
Hello, systemd maintainers.
We (the Technical Committee) have received a request to override a
maintainer decision around whether systems are switched from
sysvinit to
systemd on upgrade. H
Bdale Garbee writes ("Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade
for init system switch?"):
> Ian Jackson writes:
> > 4. So, if an existing installation has its init system switched, as a
> > result of upgrading or of installing packages, that is a
Ian Jackson writes:
> 2. Normally when Debian changes the default provider of some service,
> this means that new installs get the new provider. We do not
> transition existing installs to the new provider during upgrades,
> unless the old provider is being removed.
That's not stri
Ian Jackson writes:
> Russ Allbery writes:
>> Thanks, Tollef! Okay, so there does appear to be a conflict here. It
>> sounds like your primary technical concern, not addressed by Martin's
>> mail, is that getting the dependencies right to install systemd on
>> initial install but not upgrade to
Russ Allbery writes ("Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade
for init system switch?"):
> Thanks, Tollef! Okay, so there does appear to be a conflict here. It
> sounds like your primary technical concern, not addressed by Martin's
> mail, is that
Thanks, Tollef! Okay, so there does appear to be a conflict here. It
sounds like your primary technical concern, not addressed by Martin's
mail, is that getting the dependencies right to install systemd on initial
install but not upgrade to it are tricky and have a lot of corner cases,
and you fe
]] Russ Allbery
Hello Russ, CTTE,
> Hello, systemd maintainers.
>
> We (the Technical Committee) have received a request to override a
> maintainer decision around whether systems are switched from sysvinit to
> systemd on upgrade. However, it's not clear to me that an actual decision
> has bee
On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 10:06:31 -0400 Martin Pitt wrote:
> I'll leave this to the Debian maintainers, as I'm mostly responsible
> for the Ubuntu side, haven't really discussed this with the two
> Michaels/Tollef/Marco, and I don't feel qualified to speak for the
> Debian systemd team.
>
> My persona
Hi Ian,
On 10/21/2014 05:44 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
> I think the principle, of whether this switch should be made
> automatic, ought to be addressed separately, and should be regarded as
> a question of overlapping jurisdictions. We can't have different
> maintainers fighting over init on users'
Russ Allbery writes ("Re: Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on
upgrade for init system switch?"):
> If you're proposing this as a resolution of #765803, that's fine.
I'm not sure I follow. You think it would be proper for the TC to
pass a resolution
Ian Jackson writes:
> Tollef Fog Heen claimed in
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746578#134
> that there is consensus on debian-devel in favour of the switch.
That was some time ago, and Martin has expressed a different opinion. I
think the systemd team should have a chance
Russ Allbery writes ("Re: Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on
upgrade for init system switch?"):
> This implies that we had decided not to change init systems on upgrade. I
> don't believe that's correct. I didn't express an opinion on it one way
>
Ian Jackson writes:
> I think it would be helpful to write this up as a resolution. How
> about:
> -8<-
> 1. In February the TC decided that the default init system for Linux
> in Debian jessie would be systemd. We have been asked what this
> should mean for systems being upgraded f
Bdale Garbee writes ("Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade
for init system switch?"):
> Russ Allbery writes:
> > I think "default" is about what we install with fresh installs.
> > That's consistent with the other examples you list,
Russ Allbery writes:
> I think "default" is about what we install with fresh installs.
> That's consistent with the other examples you list, where we've picked
> a default.
I agree.
Bdale
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Description: PGP signature
Ian Jackson writes:
> I don't think the TC decision should be read as mandating that existing
> installations should be switched when upgrading from wheezy. As I have
> said, we (Debian) do not usually change the user's existing MTA, cron
> daemon, webserver, desktop, inetd, etc. etc. etc. when
Martin Pitt writes ("Bug#765803: Status of prompting / notification on upgrade
for init system switch?"):
> My personal opinion: Given how close we are to the release and how
> many regression reports we still get, it seems prudent to not change
> the currently running init s
Hello Russ,
Russ Allbery [2014-10-18 20:59 -0700]:
> When one of you has a chance, could you update this bug with the current
> thinking around how to handle upgrades
I'll leave this to the Debian maintainers, as I'm mostly responsible
for the Ubuntu side, haven't really discussed this with the t
On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 21:10:10 +1100 Stuart Prescott wrote:
> > inittab_unusual_lines="$(
> > grep '^[^#]' /etc/inittab |
> > while read line ; do
> > case "$line" in
> > 'id:2:initdefault:') ;;
> [...]
>
> I wonder if it would just be easier to look at the md5sum of the fil
Hi Josh,
> inittab_unusual_lines="$(
> grep '^[^#]' /etc/inittab |
> while read line ; do
> case "$line" in
> 'id:2:initdefault:') ;;
[...]
I wonder if it would just be easier to look at the md5sum of the file and
compare it to the md5sum of the inittab that was shipped i
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 20:59:54 -0700 Russ Allbery wrote:
> When one of you has a chance, could you update this bug with the current
> thinking around how to handle upgrades, around the ordering of
> dependencies in libpam-systemd, and some of the other ideas (such as
> attempting to detect systems w
Hello, systemd maintainers.
We (the Technical Committee) have received a request to override a
maintainer decision around whether systems are switched from sysvinit to
systemd on upgrade. However, it's not clear to me that an actual decision
has been made that we would need to override.
There ha
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