On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 23:48 +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
* Svante Signell [2012-04-29 21:51 +0200]:
In line with the recent discussion, lets aim at defining what _boot_ is:
I'm rather sure that he wants to define booting as part of what
currently is done in /etc/rcS.d. Configuring the network
Marco d'Itri wrote:
This has been happening more and more after SuSE has become irrelevant.
I will cite just a few simple examples:
- no good strategy to prevent lockstep udev/kernel upgrades, since RHEL
does not support upgrading to the next major release
- configuration files in /etc/
On 2012-04-30 09:23 +0200, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 04/30/2012 03:48 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
The difference is that there are millions of videos you can watch with
VLC, while there are only a dozen or so iwads for doomsday, none of
which are free.
And then what? Is it about numbers?
No,
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 01:49:57AM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
Marco d'Itri wrote:
I am on friendly terms with many Red Hat people, but it is a fact that
they take design decisions which are aligned with the needs of RHEL
and these needs are often far from what is good for other
* Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org [120430 04:31]:
Sorry to rant again, but am I the only one thinking that we are in most of the
case wasting everybody's time by not simply passing all the hardening flags by
default in CFLAGS ? In my experience (and I maintain more than 100 packages),
it is
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:50:06AM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
Moving the discussion to debian-devel hereby.
Oh joy-of-joys, a context free drive-by-CC to -devel, and a bug which indicates
an NMU without warning, DELAYED queue use or nmudiff, for a package to which
the maintainer is actively
On 04/29/2012 03:13 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
Is this the right time to do it?
First lets fix all RC bugs and get other more important things done than
discussing - yet again - the replacement of a well working MTA by a
different well working MTA. Both are equally easy to setup and configure
with
As I'm not involved in developing dma at all, neither upstream nor in
Debian, I'm not the right one to discuss implementation details in depth
with.
* Russ Allbery [2012-04-29 17:32 -0700]:
Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl writes:
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:50:45PM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 07:12:42PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
I'm not sure that I see the point, and I say that as someone who
replaces Exim with Postfix on all of my boxes.
Nobody's suggesting you need to change to anything. The worst you
have to do if debian changed default MTA, would be to
Dmitry Nezhevenko wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 01:49:57AM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
Marco d'Itri wrote:
- configuration files in /etc/ overriding configuration files in /lib/,
to work around the inferior configuration files handling of RPM
I'm not convinced that the traditional
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 02:44:42PM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
Currently dpkg allows not only warnings about some of the cases. It
always warns user when config file was changed in package and user edited
installed copy. And provides a a nice way to quickly take a look to
changes, choose
Marco wrote:
On Apr 29, Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com wrote:
Claiming that we are at their mercy is ignoring the ability to reason
with them.
The problem is not reasoning, in my experience Red Hat people will
promply agree that different distributions can make different choices.
But
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:58:18AM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
* Russ Allbery [2012-04-29 17:32 -0700]:
Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl writes:
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:50:45PM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
Looks like the DragonFly Mail Agent (dma), which already has been
mentioned in
On 30.04.2012 16:55, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:58:18AM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
* Russ Allbery [2012-04-29 17:32 -0700]:
[]
If dma would be the default MTA, then it should IMHO be as reliable as
possible and even try to prevent user errors. If a user would
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:44:42 +0300, Uoti Urpala
uoti.urp...@pp1.inet.fi wrote:
Hi,
Dmitry Nezhevenko wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 01:49:57AM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
Marco d'Itri wrote:
- configuration files in /etc/ overriding configuration files in
/lib/,
to work around the
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:56:21AM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
How do you define really available? When the link is up (and your
favourite cisco is still blocking traffic to figure out its STP fun?) or
you default gateway is pingable (and waits for you to start your
VPN/authentication/whatever
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 07:18:54PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Apr 29, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
The giant endless flamewars on debian-devel required to make a decision to
change anything. :)
Unrelated: you have just shown what poisons Debian and has been keeping
us behind
Le Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:50:06AM +0200, Sven Joachim a écrit :
For all of these, there's no ROM available in the Debian archive, and
it'd be hard, if not impossible in some cases, to find some free ROMs.
This doesn't prevent the packages to be in main. If you want to
challenge this
Aron Xu happyaron...@gmail.com writes:
But what if I endianness does matters for those gettext .mo files?
Installing them as libfoo-translations-be and libfoo-translations-le
will need some change in gettext support of those
applications/libraries, that is finding mo files in alternative
On 04/30/2012 05:33 PM, Jon Dowland wrote:
Oh joy-of-joys, a context free drive-by-CC to -devel, and a bug which
indicates
an NMU without warning, DELAYED queue use or nmudiff, for a package to which
the maintainer is actively discussing the bug (not MIA), for a maintainer who
is just
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:13:45PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
They may be useless without additional data, but this is the same as
drivers that are useless without additional hardware.
I don't buy this analogy - usually, drivers are programmed for existing
(or soon-to-be-existing) hardware,
Le Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:46:57AM +0200, Bernhard R. Link a écrit :
* Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org [120430 04:31]:
When we need to modify a large number of packages in order to propagate a
change, isn't this meaning that we are not picking the most efficient
defaults ?
As I wrote
Dmitry Nezhevenko wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 02:44:42PM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
Wrong. Any program behavior change may require changing custom
configuration, but such changes need not be accompanied by changes in
the default configuration file. Currently dpkg lacks any mechanism to
+1 to let Node.js be just node
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On 04/30/2012 05:25 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
This has been happening more and more after SuSE has become irrelevant.
What (or what time) are you talking about?
Has SuSE ever been relevant? :)
Thomas
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On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:24:17PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 04/30/2012 05:33 PM, Jon Dowland wrote:
Oh joy-of-joys, a context free drive-by-CC to -devel, and a bug which
indicates
an NMU without warning, DELAYED queue use or nmudiff, for a package to which
the maintainer is
On 04/30/2012 04:56 AM, Fernando Lemos wrote:
I agree that OpenRC would be an improvement over the status
quo, but migrating *away* from OpenRC later on would be a major pain
as we would have to support both LSB/sysvinit scripts and OpenRC
service descriptions for the foreseeable future.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
On 04/30/2012 04:56 AM, Fernando Lemos wrote:
I agree that OpenRC would be an improvement over the status
quo, but migrating *away* from OpenRC later on would be a major pain
as we would have to support both LSB/sysvinit
Riku Voipio riku.voi...@iki.fi writes:
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 07:12:42PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
I'm not sure that I see the point, and I say that as someone who
replaces Exim with Postfix on all of my boxes.
Nobody's suggesting you need to change to anything. The worst you have
to do
On Apr 30, Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
On 04/30/2012 05:25 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
This has been happening more and more after SuSE has become irrelevant.
What (or what time) are you talking about?
Has SuSE ever been relevant? :)
In this context it was, because it was the other
Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes:
The problem is: who wants to support what and what for ? I thought that
the release goal was to harden Debian, not to fine-grain makefiles in
general.
What I see here is a system that is generous of other people's time.
I would have assumed you
* Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) [120430 17:09]:
Riku Voipio riku.voi...@iki.fi writes:
Exim in 2012 not supporting 8BITMIME and thus being the last Major MTA
forcing quoted-printable conversions to make emails 7bit clean is
quite horribly wrong.
I didn't realize that. I agree, that's
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 04:24:36PM +0200, Michael Banck wrote:
They may be useless without additional data, but this is the same as
drivers that are useless without additional hardware.
I don't buy this analogy - usually, drivers are programmed for existing
(or soon-to-be-existing) hardware,
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:04:32PM -0300, Fernando Lemos wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
On 04/30/2012 04:56 AM, Fernando Lemos wrote:
I agree that OpenRC would be an improvement over the status
quo, but migrating *away* from OpenRC later on
On 30/04/12 15:21, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
With libfoo being in /usr/lib/M-A tuple/ any endian dependent data
should be in /usr/lib/package/M-A tuple/ or /usr/lib/M-A
tuple/M-A tuple/ (sorry, did we pick one of them as standard yet?),
which is usualy a configure option.
I think you mean
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 17:11:21 +0300, Uoti Urpala
uoti.urp...@pp1.inet.fi wrote:
Dmitry Nezhevenko wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 02:44:42PM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
Wrong. Any program behavior change may require changing custom
configuration, but such changes need not be accompanied by
George Danchev wrote:
It is entirely possible to manage configuration files from dpkg's
maintainerscripts (postinst on 'configure' stage, and resp. postrm) as
you find fit,
or by means of ucf, and possibly in combination with debconf.
One can ship a bunch of configuration files in
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Roger Leigh rle...@codelibre.net wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:04:32PM -0300, Fernando Lemos wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
On 04/30/2012 04:56 AM, Fernando Lemos wrote:
I agree that OpenRC would be an
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 04:59:00PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Harald Dunkel
How can I tell a Debian package to conflict with a real
package foo, but not with other packages providing foo?
Conflicts: foo (= 0)
since versioned provides don't exist.
Conflicts: foo (= 0), foo ( 0)
Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org writes:
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 07:18:54PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
Unrelated: you have just shown what poisons Debian and has been keeping
us behind innovation for the last years. Not the flamewars themselves,
most of us are grown ups and can handle
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 01:55:24PM BST, Adam Borowski wrote:
Not on a laptop or any machine that has to conserve power and avoid
unnecessary wakeups / disk spin-ups.
Or any device with an SSD or SD card (more and more popular net-tops
nowadays).
A cronjob every 5 minutes means you need to
OoO En ce doux début de matinée du lundi 30 avril 2012, vers 08:15,
Svante Signell svante.sign...@telia.com disait :
I'm rather sure that he wants to define booting as part of what
currently is done in /etc/rcS.d. Configuring the network or mounting
non-essential remote file systems
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 03:55:50PM +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:
Or is it that doomsday still needs iwad files on top of the wad
files for levels, sprites, and characters?
The problem with Freedoom (which provides all of the above) is that the levels
in Freedoom make use of features introduced
* Vincent Bernat [2012-04-30 20:30 +0200]:
OoO En ce doux début de matinée du lundi 30 avril 2012, vers 08:15,
Svante Signell svante.sign...@telia.com disait :
I'm rather sure that he wants to define booting as part of what
currently is done in /etc/rcS.d. Configuring the network or
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:27:19PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
So it's, of all Doom resources, the lack of _levels_ working with original
(-llish) Doom code that's the problem? This would sound a lot more dire if
less than, say, 1/3 of us who remember the times of original Doom made our
own
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 22:21, Goswin von Brederlow goswin-...@web.de wrote:
Aron Xu happyaron...@gmail.com writes:
But what if I endianness does matters for those gettext .mo files?
Installing them as libfoo-translations-be and libfoo-translations-le
will need some change in gettext support
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:13:25PM +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:
I had a plan to package a collection of PWADs ('patch' WADs - levels) as a
package which I never did. I'm going to see about picking that up tomorrow.
I've identified two that are public domain and featured in a 100 best PWADs
of
Le Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 08:15:35AM -0700, Russ Allbery a écrit :
Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes:
The problem is: who wants to support what and what for ? I thought that
the release goal was to harden Debian, not to fine-grain makefiles in
general.
What I see here is a system
Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes:
all our packages include a way to pass build flags to the upstream build
system, in order to implement features such as DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=noopt.
It would have been trivial to pass the hardening flags automatically
through the same communication
Le Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 04:24:36PM +0200, Michael Banck a écrit :
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:13:45PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
They may be useless without additional data, but this is the same as
drivers that are useless without additional hardware.
I don't buy this analogy - usually,
Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes:
By the way I would like to add another point, that the split between
contrib and non-free is not informative. A program in contrib can be
tightly coupled to a non-free library in a way that would require a
considerable amount of work to free it. On
* Carl Fürstenberg [2012-04-28 03:31 +0200]:
There has been an log struggle between the nodejs package and the node
package, which is still unresolved (bug #611698 for example) And I
wonder now what the future should look like.
In short I think that there is only one sane solution to this and
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonathan McCrohan jmccro...@gmail.com
* Package name: libphidget
Version : 2.1.8.20120216
Upstream Author : Phidgets Inc. supp...@phidgets.com
* URL : http://www.phidgets.com/
* License : LGPL-3
Programming Lang: C
On Monday, April 30, 2012 06:14:19, Riku Voipio wrote:
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 07:12:42PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
...
There's nothing particularly wrong with Exim; it works just fine.
Exim in 2012 not supporting 8BITMIME and thus being the last Major MTA
forcing quoted-printable
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Maintainer: Debian X Strike Force
++6-4.7-pic - GNU Standard C++ Library v3 (shared library subset kit)
Changes:
gcc-4.7 (4.7.0-6) unstable; urgency=low
.
* Update to SVN 20120430 (r186964) from the gcc-4_7-branch.
- Fix PR target/53138.
* Build Go on ARM.
* Treat wheezy the same as sid in more places (Peter Green
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:25:53 +0200
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:33:30 +0200
Source: libsysactivity
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Version: 0.6.2-7
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:27:46 +0200
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Version: 1:1.1.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian X Strike Force
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:03:59 +0200
Source: unworkable
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Architecture: source amd64
Version: 0.53-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Michael Stapelberg stapelb...@debian.org
Changed-By: Michael
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:21:00 +0200
Source: libfuse-perl
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Version: 0.15.1-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Perl Group pkg-perl-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:35:36 +0200
Source: x11-apps
Binary: x11-apps
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 7.7~1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian X Strike Force debia...@lists.debian.org
Changed-By: Julien Cristau
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:39:08 +0200
Source: anjuta
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Version: 2:3.4.1-1
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Urgency: low
Maintainer:
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:59:24 +0200
Source: gnome-contacts
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Version: 3.4.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
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Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:33:21 +0200
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:51:08 +0200
Source: python-poppler
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Architecture: source amd64
Version: 0.12.1-8
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Andrea Gasparini ga...@yattaweb.it
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:07:32 +0100
Source: rabbitmq-server
Binary: rabbitmq-server
Architecture: source all
Version: 2.8.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: RabbitMQ Team packag...@rabbitmq.com
Changed-By: Emile
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 17:19:28 +0200
Source: lua-coxpcall
Binary: lua-coxpcall liblua5.1-coxpcall0
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.13.0-6
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Enrico Tassi gareuselesi...@debian.org
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:59:42 +0900
Source: mhc
Binary: mhc mhc-utils
Architecture: source i386 all
Version: 0.25.1+20120403-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Tatsuya Kinoshita t...@debian.org
Changed-By: Tatsuya
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 17:23:38 +0200
Source: lua-rexlib
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 17:35:22 +0200
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:40:53 +0800
Source: isdnutils
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isdnutils-doc isdnvbox isdnvboxclient isdnvboxserver capiutils libcapi20-3
libcapi20-dev pppdcapiplugin
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:32:22 +0200
Source: splix
Binary: printer-driver-splix splix
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 2.0.0+svn306-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Luca Niccoli lultimou...@gmail.com
Changed-By:
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