Hi,
I have recently started a project to create a custom Debian
distribution DebIce which provides a desktop with very low hardware
requirements. I would appreciate any advice you could give me
regarding the following:
1) Inclusion of software not currently available in the Debian
No, I do not want to create Damn Small Linux. This project has different
aims, one of which is to not be a livecd distribution since DSL and
Morphix have covered those bases nicely. An additional goal of the
project is to ensure that users of Debian have what they need should they
need or choose
I am hoping to get some outside developers involved as I know Debian
developers have there hands full. I am also hoping that some of the
Debian developers who can assist will do so. Honestly I do not think I
have the ability, patience, or time to be packaging software for
Debian and
Let me explain to you the why I have decided to start the project. I
have searched for a lightweight distribution and none of what is
available has been what I wanted for one reason or another. Debain has
most of what I need for a desktop, but it trial and error to find what
works and
Let me explain to you the why I have decided to start the project. I
have searched for a lightweight distribution and none of what is
available has been what I wanted for one reason or another. I also
have used IceWM on an older laptop for a while and like it. Debain has
most of what I
If you do not know what applications are on which CD, or even what you
need it becomes a little more difficult. I am trying to make it a
little easier for these
persons. I just went through all of this trying to install IceWM on an
older machine, so I thought to try to make it a little
I do have this ability. I am lacking in the programming skills
needed for the packaging and bug fixing. I can read most code and make
some small changes, but my programming skills are mainly in C# and a
little Java. I know just enough C++ to be dangerous.
Quoting Andreas Tille [EMAIL
I came up with nothing on Google for stem linux., and DeliLinux
looks to be turkish so I don't know if we would even be to
communicate. I should try talking with them, their desktop looks
pretty nice. I have already done a bit of research on what
applications similar distributions are
I would expect a smaller package list would help in that respect.
But one of the issues people on debian-user have mentioned on low-memory
(and low cpu) hardware is the long wait for apt-get and friends to run
(if at all).
-Kev
[0] This machine has no floppy support, no network, no cdrom, no
I had considered releasing an extra-light version as well but it
seemed several other distros had that covered and it would be too much
to try to maintain too many different versions. Is it needed?
I suppose everyone has a different idea of what is functional as an
OS on older hardware. I
What is the best method or best tool to determine the memory usage
of an application? I have been gathering rough estimates from top.
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Why does the Debian distribution need so many applications? It
doesn't, it is nice to have them available though.
It may depend upon one perception of sluggish. I find Fedora's Gnome
desktop to be sluggish on an ATHLON 2000 XP. I tried Ubuntu with XFCE
and while the desktop loaded fine
Quoting Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
You appear to be conflating a few different things here.
Yes, the initial statement was intended to be separate from the
paragraph after.
As far as the set that's appropriate for medium-memory users, that's
really a user specific thing; what
Thanks for all of the input and suggestions, even the criticisms.
Thanks also for all of the hard work that goes into Debian. I am
enjoying working until the wee hours of the morning on the project,
and hopefully Debian, and a lot of people with older computers will
gain some benefit from it.
Why is the Opera browser not included in Debian?
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Albert Einstein
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Yes, it seems that it would belong in non-free. I see nothing about
redistribution mentioned in gthe Opera license. The opera EULA states:
You are free to use this software on ALL computers.
I'll probably get flamed on this but..
I love open-source software but I don't hesitate to use
Hmm, seems odd that it should need testing, runs great on my machine
and thousands of others. Perhaps we are a little overzealous, no?
Quoting Jakubo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 09:09:17PM +0300, Kalle Kivimaa wrote:
Why is the Opera browser not
I see. That explains that.
Quoting Russ Allbery [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes, it seems that it would belong in non-free. I see nothing about
redistribution mentioned in gthe Opera license. The opera EULA states:
You are free to use this software on ALL computers.
Use
Please indicate how Opera is more free or better than the web browsers
already included in Debian.
I did not specify Opera as an example. Opera does perform much
better on older hardware than Iceweasel.
You are also free to properly package it yourself and find a sponsor to
upload it for
Perhaps Debian could contact Opera about the license, assuming for
the sake of argument that they have not already done so?
Use does not mean redistribute. If there is not explicit permission
granted to redistribute the Debian packages, Debian cannot do so.
Everything should be made as
Correct, I am not a Debian developer. I have considered it several
times but have been put off by the amount of documentation. I have to
be able to jump in and do something or I lose interest.
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Unfortunately for general usage of much of the internet one requires
Javascript.
Well, to begin with, FF/IW is not the only browser in Debian. Oddly
enough, I frequently use w3m and elinks and never have trouble with
things like keyboard focus getting screwed up.
Regards,
-Roberto
--
I could give contacting them a shot and see what they say, but
Debian carries more weight then I as an individual do. I suppose it is
not a lot of trouble to download and install, but to say that about
everything creates a lot to download and install.
Quoting Steinar H. Gunderson [EMAIL
AAh.
Distribute Opera
Sign up to distribute multiple copies of Opera to your school,
university, company, organization, or on a CD, USB stick etc. Simply
register, agree to the terms in the multiple distribution agreement,
and you are ready to distribute Opera.
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Quoting Russ Allbery [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Another problem that would have to be resolved is security support
over the lifetime of a Debian stable release. I can see
creating a new Debian package if some Debian developer wants to put in the
work to better integrate the software into Debian,
I notice there is a source package for the kernel and a package of
debian patches. Has the kernel source already been patched or would
one need to patch it with all of the included debian patches when
building a custom kernel?
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not
I am wondering if you have anything to elaborate with or if that was
just a vague unsubstantiated statement. As Opera frequently releases
security updates packaged for the latest version of Debian I do not
see what potential problems coud result other than needing to roll out
a new
Quoting Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 08:19:14PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am wondering if you have anything to elaborate with or if that was
just a vague unsubstantiated statement. As Opera frequently releases
security updates packaged for the latest
Ok. Sow how are security updates done in Debian? Do you just patch
the old software or do you test and release a new version. At least no
one has found the new bugs yet, a few days delay could be big trouble.
http://www.debian.org/security/faq#oldversion
Quote: Q: How is security handled
Quoting Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please learn what the 'testing' branch of Debian is for.
URL:http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-testing
Yes I understand what it is for. It does however seem that in at
least a few - not all - but a few instances it could be pointless.
Quoting Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please learn what the 'testing' branch of Debian is for.
URL:http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-testing
Let me clarify a little bit. I can understand the need for a
evaluation before a piece of software such as this goes into Debian.
I do not see the need to do anything other than sign the package and
drop it into the repository, as it is already completely functional
for Debian.
I encourage you to try it then. You'll learn a great deal about just
what *is* required to get a package working properly with the tens of
Quoting Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Then you *still* don't understand what Testing means in the Debian.
Ok, sorry. I did not realize Debian had assigned a new meaning to
the word testing ;)
So then does it need to spend time in unstable, as it is not
unstable, or should it go
Quoting Roberto C. Sánchez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
The same
exact thing could be said of Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and any of a
number of other packages which received tremendous testing upstream.
None of them have empty pages on bugs.d.o.
Are these packages which have been packaged upstream for
That is, all software that makes it to into testing should be
stable and release quality and ready for testing with *the rest of the
packages slated for the next release*.
Ok. In the event of a piece of software which is likely to need little
testing and be updated upstream several times
To reiterate what I just said in a reply, as it is somewhat
important. I believe some bugs are being missed in the less used
packages. I have found several already since I began working on my
Deb-Ice project. I assume that since the packages are not getting as
much testing these are
Quoting Roberto C. Sánchez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
What professional software engineering experience do you have on large
software projects that qualifies you to determine what software is
likely to need little testing?
Good point. The answer is not much,
Additionally, what insight do you have
Quoting Roberto C. Sánchez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
releases.
What professional software engineering experience do you have on large
software projects that qualifies you to determine what software is
likely to need little testing?
In addition I never said that I should be the person to make that
Packaging for Debian != testing for bugs with Debian. They are two
independent activities.
Then it appears I have a flawed assumption about the amount of
effort a software company would place into testing the software they
have packaged for a Linux version. Thank you for the enlightment. :)
Quoting Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
It's painfully clear that you don't understand how Debian works.
Yes, that is why I am asking these questions. Thanks to all who have
responded. The documentation I have found about the different versions
and process is somewhat vague.
Everything
Quoting Bernd Zeimetz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I would like and need to learn packaging some software for Debian, and
something already packaged does seem like a good place to start. The
question there is, can it go into Debian?
you think about creating your own Debian derivative and don't know
Quoting Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Ok, so just because it installs and works does not mean everything is
correct. Not sure where the flaw is there, maybe it should be
impossible to package something incorrectly ;)
Thanks, can someone give me a few ideas of some things I can do
Quoting Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
#include hallo.h
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Mon, Aug 27 2007, 03:28:55PM]:
Correct, I am not a Debian developer. I have considered it several times
but have been put off by the amount of documentation. I have to be able to
jump in and do something or I lose
Quoting Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
We like to give some directions to people that don't claim to know
everything and criticize everything without thinking or worse, reading
what people answer. You shoot mails faster than you read, and it's
obvious reading you.
Actually, I read faster
Quoting The Fungi [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Further, Debian
embraces freedom above all else, and one of the commonly-recognized
freedoms observed is the freedom to speak one's mind; thus
potentially abrasive conversation becomes not only possible, but
somewhat protected (if productive and on-topic, at
Quoting Bernd Zeimetz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Opera bugs are reported much less than most other widely used browsers,
and Opera is widely used.
So you have access to opera's internal bugtracker, or did you just use
$RANDOM to find an appropriate number?
I am using generally available
For all of those who are still responding who have apparently not
read all of the postings first, It has been pointed out and I have
realized that I was in error regarding what was neccessary to include
software packaged by commercial companies. This occurred about 16
hours ago so that
Hi,
How does everyone feel about adding the software scsiaddgui to
Debian. I cannot find anything that provides similar functionality,
and if there is such a tool it is most likely Gnome or Kde specific. I
have spoken with the person who has written the software and he said
he would
Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
If you are going to be the Debian Maintainer for this package, you
should be able to at least understand error reports from the package
which is very difficult if you don't understand the interpreter output
in the case of python. If you are not going to
Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
If you are going to be the Debian Maintainer for this package, you
should be able to at least understand error reports from the package
which is very difficult if you don't understand the interpreter output
in the case of python.
So if I am able to
Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
If you are going to be the Debian Maintainer for this package, you
should be able to at least understand error reports from the package
which is very difficult if you don't understand the interpreter output
in the case of python.
Consider the
Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:42:26 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
If you are going to be the Debian Maintainer for this package, you
should be able to at least understand error reports from the package
which is
Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
PS.
Of course you do not have time, you run off eveyone who wants to help.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Albert Einstein
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Quoting Stephen Gran [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
It's pretty simple, really. If you want to maintain packages in Debian,
at least pretend to want to understand the package and pretend to want
to support them through a stable release. Saying up front that you're
too lazy to do even minimal support isn't
Regarding lazy, it appears that those of this opinion have never
created a distro.
Indeed I am currently:
1) maintaining the project website
2) building the isos
3) uploading the isos for distribution
4) gathering lists of packages to include
5) searching for software missing in Debian which
http://www.debian.org/social_contract
# Our priorities are our users and free software
We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software
community. We will place their interests first in our priorities.
We will support the needs of our users for operation in many
different
icelinux believes might help
some subset of our users.
I see, I must have confused subset of users with users.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Albert Einstein
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Quoting Peter Samuelson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Also, lest we all forget, I am a Debian user. So what you say to me
you say to us all.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Albert Einstein
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I am not whining, I am questioning the validity of your claimed
philosophical values. Insults do not validate your point of view.
I think your problem is that you have confused our priorities are our
users... with our priority is everything icelinux believes might help
some subset of our
Quoting Peter Samuelson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
We don't really have time for either sort - that is
what debian-mentors and slashdot, respectively, are for.
Hmm, yes I wonder what people would think were we to post the contents
of our exchange on Slashdot.
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Everything should be made as
Quoting Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[...] since you've picked something that involves non-free stuff,
you've immediately ruled out most of the people who're active on
this list, who're here because they want to make a completely free
operating system,
Quoting Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I also think many of those here are sabotaging Debian and the entire
free software community with the manner in which they respond to
newcomers. The amount of time required to spoonfeed as one person
put it, a person who wants to help but does not
Quoting Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I received at least one particular nasty reply off list.
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Albert Einstein
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Quoting Maarten Verwijs [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
a) It is silly because you perceive it to be son, a not necessarily
accurate conclusion.
b) One is too many.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Albert Einstein
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Quoting Maarten Verwijs [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
What?!?!
You've sent 60+ silly posts to the devel-list and only *one* nasty reply
off list!??
And people dare insinuate Debian Devs are rude.
One is too many.
In addition you may consider that your perception of silly may not
be held by the
Quoting Micha Lenk [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Hi nameless one,
lol, I need to think up a name, hmm what shall it be? I hate having
my name posted all over the internet.
And here we might get to a consensus again: Actually you *do* care about
a scsiaddgui package *personally* by suggesting to
Huh? Err, I've used IceWM in the past in debian without having to try
hard at all (apt-get install icewm... wow... that was difficult!) and
I'm currently using ion3 (guess how I installed that... oh, yes, apt-get
install ion3)... Of course, synaptics can easily be run in any of the
window
One issue is that only a few programs appear in the IceWM menu. The
rest you need to know the names of and type in by hand. I can of
course create a menu if I have a prepackaged selection of software,
which is what I am working on.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not
I confirm, your post are mostly silly.
2 out of how many, that is hardly confirmation. Shall we take a vote?
If you want to convince everyone here that Debian does not care
about its users
That is the way it sounds from most of the responses I have received.
Those are only the
I would greatly appreciate it if anyone who does have some time
would assist me in some manner. I understand that every suggestion I
may have may not be the best course of action. Thanks.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Albert Einstein
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How dare you. You are effectively telling me that, because I care
about Debian users, you can tell me what I should do with the time I
devote to Debian, merely because you are a user. You are telling me
that you know better than I do what I can do to benefit Debian users.
Sorry, it doesn't work
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