The Wanderer dijo [Thu, Jul 03, 2014 at 11:18:12PM -0400]:
> > It must work without systemd well enough to be able to cleanly reboot
> > the system from the GUI, after upgrading.
> >
> > Anything beyond that is nice-to-have, but definitely NOT required.
>
> I, for one, would be highly displeased
Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>For Zurg (Jessie+1), we're likely to switch to Wayland. How do you plan to
We're *what*?
(Says someone who uses X11 forwarding, VNC in, VNC out, and all
that on an almost-, if not daily, basis.)
OT: prevent-systemd-*_9_all.deb are in my repo. Wookey, feel
free to u
* The Wanderer , 2014-07-04, 12:00:
Zurg (Jessie+1),
Has that name actually been formalized in any way?
No. But no worries, if RT chooses a different name, we'll have a GR to
override them. :-P
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Jakub Wilk
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On Jul 04, The Wanderer wrote:
> This part is precisely what I'm objecting to. I don't consider being
> expected to reboot *in order to maintain existing functionality* after
> an upgrade to be reasonable.
Tough luck for you then, I fear that this is a perception issue.
> At the very least, in t
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On 07/04/2014 11:28 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Adam Borowski:
>> There was enough trouble when udev needed an in-lockstep upgrade with the
>> kernel a few releases back. If systemd components are going to need such
>> forced reboots on
On Friday, July 04, 2014 17:28:05 Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Adam Borowski:
> > There was enough trouble when udev needed an in-lockstep upgrade with the
> > kernel a few releases back. If systemd components are going to need such
> > forced reboots on a repeated basis, I don't like where
Hi,
Adam Borowski:
> There was enough trouble when udev needed an in-lockstep upgrade with the
> kernel a few releases back. If systemd components are going to need such
> forced reboots on a repeated basis, I don't like where this is going.
>
systemd and its components can re-exec themselves, t
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On 07/04/2014 10:42 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 09:52:07AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote:
>
>> So, let me get this straight:
>>
>> You're saying that if, having decided to postpone rebooting after
>> an upgrade where any reasona
On Fri, Jul 4, 2014, at 16:42, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 09:52:07AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote:
> > So, let me get this straight:
> >
> > You're saying that if, having decided to postpone rebooting after an
> > upgrade where any reasonable person would expect to reboot
>
> Thi
On Fri, Jul 04, 2014 at 09:52:07AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote:
> So, let me get this straight:
>
> You're saying that if, having decided to postpone rebooting after an
> upgrade where any reasonable person would expect to reboot
This is Debian, not Windows or Red Hat, forced reboots are not accept
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On 07/04/2014 04:52 AM, Philip Hands wrote:
> The Wanderer writes:
>
>> ... particularly because I use rather fewer things than many other
>> people, and don't use most fancy GUI elements. (For example, I
>> don't have a graphical "power button" a
In other news for Thu, Jul 03, 2014 at 04:59:25PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser has
been seen typing:
> No, there just has not been any challenge that met the form and
> other requirements… and I am at a bit of loss at what to do here.
> Besides, it’s not that the TC made a decision. Rather, the TC wa
That will be my last contribution to this pointless discussion.
Le jeudi, 3 juillet 2014, 16.59:25 Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> > or without systemd btw). Given that the technical committee has made
> > a decision which stayed unchallenged (so far), I've now come to
> > think that
> No, there just
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014, at 16:59, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> Besides, it’s not that the TC made a decision. Rather, the TC was
> split, and the chairman threw in his weight. This is absolutely not
> what I’d call a project(!) decision.
No! The TC has made the decision with full adherence to Debian
Con
The Wanderer writes:
> ... particularly because I use rather fewer things than
> many other people, and don't use most fancy GUI elements. (For example,
> I don't have a graphical "power button" at all; I shut down by exiting
> my window manager, logging out of the console where I had originally
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On 07/03/2014 11:53 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> The Wanderer writes:
>
>> I, for one, would be highly displeased if a routine dist-upgrade to
>> testing required me to reboot to avoid having things break.
>
>> I generally dist-upgrade my primary co
Hi,
The Wanderer:
> I, for one, would be highly displeased if a routine dist-upgrade to
> testing required me to reboot to avoid having things break.
>
We're talking about an upgrade from one release to the other here,
with many intrusive changes (not just systemd).
If you do that upgrade not in
The Wanderer writes:
> I, for one, would be highly displeased if a routine dist-upgrade to
> testing required me to reboot to avoid having things break.
> I generally dist-upgrade my primary computer to testing about once a
> week, give or take, but I don't reboot it more often than once a month
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On 07/03/2014 01:40 PM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thorsten Glaser:
>>> Can we get over this now and start making Jessie the most awesome
>>> stable release we've ever prepared together?
>>
>> To do that, it MUST work without systemd, if a
Hi,
Thorsten Glaser:
> A lot of Debian systems even run without dbus!
>
Yeah. So? systemd doesn't force you to run a dbus daemon.
> No, there just has not been any challenge that met the form and
> other requirements… and I am at a bit of loss at what to do here.
>
You get to do the same thing
On Thu, 3 Jul 2014, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> The proper solution is to stop trying to hide ourselves from to the fact
> that some sort of systemd interfaces have been made unavoidable in
> modern desktop environments (fact which is rightfully reflected in our
Eh… you know… these are not a
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