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* Sean Kellogg ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [061207 00:26]:
Debian just doesn't want to be bothered with the hassel of
having to build the brand of Iceweasel, so it appears to have decided to
co-opt the Firefox name.
That is a lie.
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such hints for the
firefox users, they should ask us (though that would make upgrades for
our users more difficult). Otherwise, this discussion is just a waste of
time.
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to me, and
I currently don't see the issue with GPL there.
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* Markus Laire ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060830 15:01]:
I have somewhat similar feelings after I found out that the
cdrtools-package[1] included in Debian isn't DFSG-free, but is still
included in main.
(Even worse, its license might even be illegal because it's GPLv2 +
incombatible
.
Actually, I think you told us how you would deal with it, and your
latest mails didn't had any further input, so I suggest that you leave
it to us what we actually do. Repeating the same content over and over
doesn't really help.
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there is one thing I definitly don't want to
see: That this magazine creates another DVD based on sarge for next
year's CeBiT - independend of how they title the DVD. They should base
it on etch.
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also say what worked well.
The DVD worked well. Handing out DVDs to Debian also. The headline also.
Just not the print on the DVDs itself, which was not meant bad and can
be fixed in future. And now, please let's get back to work on etch.
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to me. Who are you, and how do
you judge what is proper use of Debian's trademarks and what not?
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/lm_04_06_dvd.html
I think the best way to handle this is if local DDs check the issue and
speak with them - as I'm local, I'll put it on my todo-list.
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official Debian statements. This is ok, and good, but of course, that's
the exception and not the rule.
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* Manoj Srivastava ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060525 08:15]:
On 24 May 2006, Andreas Barth stated:
* Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060524 17:54]:
So I guess you can still criticize folks for this if you want to,
but I know that my own ongoing notion of best practices comes
from stuff I
it be a good idea to make just sync the dev ref with what
you consider as best practice? (And, BTW, I make much effort to only
update the dev ref with correct information.)
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with a subject
of such publications is for non-commercial use
| only and no modifications of the publication is made.
If not, we should consider how to get to the goal with minimum effort on
all sides.
Thanks for your support.
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* Raul Miller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050727 18:45]:
On 7/27/05, Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Uh, I don't? I said that the other guidelines are *applicable* to
non-program works, and *should be applied* to non-program works -- not that,
as presently written, we are obliged to apply
* Florian Weimer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050728 16:19]:
* Steve McIntyre:
The interpretation I outlined is certainly not new. It reflects the
current practice, and I think we're in a pretty good position as far
as compliance is concerned. Even the notorious GNU FDL issue is not a
real problem
* Florian Weimer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050722 23:56]:
* Andreas Barth:
Actually, the DFSG says:
| 2. Source Code
|
| The program must include source code, and must allow distribution in
| source code as well as compiled form.
Obviously e.g. fonts are no programms, even
* Glenn Maynard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050723 11:15]:
(CC's trimmed.)
On Sat, Jul 23, 2005 at 09:21:04AM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
It's clear from the context (and previous discussion) that this has to
be interpreted as software.
I disagree with that. As there were editorial changes
* Florian Weimer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050722 23:47]:
* Matthew Garrett:
There's two main issues here.
1) Does everything in main have to include the preferred form of
modification?
I don't believe so,
We had a GR that is usually interpreted in a manner which disagrees
with you.
* Andrew Suffield ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050305 11:50]:
You need to go talk to DWN and the anti-freedom advocates, who are the
Whom of your fellow co-developers do you consider as anti-freedeom
advocates?
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about it at all.
Again, it's not the case that you've the absolute truth. Even if you
don't like it.
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, anyone is free to
pick up their favourite ones.
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of for unmaintainability is no service to our users
but instead does lock them into low quality code which can only be modified
at high costs if at all.
They would be able to say it, but they don't.
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script which
converts a sort of custom #defined MAGIC_NUMBERs to id numbers, and
then removes the #definitions.
Is there some proof that the files are created that way, or is this just
your assumptation?
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, people having authority
to decide (maintainers of package, ftp-master, ...) may (and do) use
discussion results from here.
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team, and removing should also not be
done without coordination (except that of course the maintainer can
always declare any issues as release critical for his package, means:
also remove the sarge-ignore tag).
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* Michael Poole ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041028 07:25]:
[...]
I hope you don't really mean it.
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reason changes my mind.
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?)
If icc is required for that application, than it needs to go to contrib.
If not, please compile it with gcc.
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the DFSG. In my opinion, we should decide to draw
the line at runs on the host cpu. Of course, your opinion might
differ, and it's as much based on the SC as mine.
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to respect choice of venue clauses in
copyright-based licenses?
What do you mean by personal jurisdiction? E.g. for a lawsuite in
the USA it is sufficient if the person who claims to be damaged lives
there.
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, they already browse debian-legal.
Some people who care have just given up to discuss here.
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-free
is no longer an helpful guide for our users and also not for ourself.
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that without a GR in a new thread on
-project.
Perhaps the documentation archive is just not considered to be part of
Debian (the Distribution).
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paying nothing; it just makes it less
likely that you would win if he sues you.
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* Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [040711 14:40]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
A typical warranty disclaimer doesn't prohibit you from suing the
author; it just makes it less likely that you would win if you did.
That's a bogus reason. A typical you must give the author 1000
status, it's more difficult than before.
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and not the whole work.
As 3-clause-BSD is GPL-compatible, you can redistribute the whole work
under the conditions of the GPL. However, there are identifiable
sections that can distributed under an even more permissive license.
Cheers,
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that?
Cheers,
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not a bug, then don't fix it. We have enough problems with
unnecessary changes to the SC, so please leave DFSG#10 alone.
Cheers,
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the old stuff.
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/share/common-licenses, so I ommited the full reference
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of the three example licenses GPL, BSD
and artistic, so that we can add these also on this page. Also, Frank
is about to summarize older discussions.
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* Humberto Massa ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [040423 00:25]:
@ 22/04/2004 18:26 : wrote Andreas Barth :
Of course we can discriminate - like the GPL does.
no, no, the GPL discriminates what you do with the specific piece of
software you are redistributing or its derived works, not if you
of non-freeness we come
across.
I learned during university that any system which is not conflicting
itself has gaps in it. As the DFSG are not conflicting itself
Cheers,
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of endeavour,
and we can't discriminate against it, or else no Debian user can produce
proprietary software.
Of course we can discriminate - like the GPL does.
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* Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au) [040416 14:10]:
[-devel dropped]
On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 11:00:08AM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
* Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au) [040416 10:25]:
Because when you have a compile-time dependency you create a derived
work -- vmlinuz
) are not copyrightable.
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of the
code (then they _are_ the source code), or are they just a result of a
compiler run, and nobody will edit them (then they're not).
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.
licenses.debian.org?
I've been meaning to take a closer look at doing this soon, but
unfortunatly, my research has been eating up what little time I
possess.
Well, I can try to invest a little bit time into this. Thank you for
your work.
Cheers,
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either a policial
statement (also known as FUD), or it's just telling what the GPL
Section 4 says itselfs. So, in neither case, it changes anything of
the GPL.
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.
RSA has expired. But you'll need to make sure that this was the only
issue.
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not be there (as we would also be
force to delivere the exact copy of the GPL). And a difference that
makes no difference is no difference (courtesy to Spock).
So, this is ok.
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-nonfree (generating .gifs). That's what I meant with the above.
And I'd really like to move the gif-generating code to main before
sarge - however, I'm waiting for patent expiry (speaking that as
maintainer of netpbm-nonfree).
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idea. Even if release would be some days before
7 July, I think it would be good to move it after that date. This
would make some software free, and would solve some RC-bugs.
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in recommended packages by default.
I understood the same, and also understood that Suggests should be
handled via a Enhances-entry at the non-free package.
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it clearer that it's necessary to allow
_both_ ways.
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* Claus Färber ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031005 20:57]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb/wrote:
Sorry, but that's not totally true. There was substantial distribution
via modem networks before (e.g. Fido). IMHO this is equivalent to
distribution over internet.
According to German law
.
As a German citizen, you cannot release anything into the public domain
(short of being dead for 70 years). Some of your rights as an author
60 years for works being published during lifetime.
are inherently untransferable.
except by Last Will.
Cheers,
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* Florian Weimer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031004 10:53]:
Andreas Barth wrote:
Online distribution of copyrighted works is known since 1995 (in the
legal sense, at least that's the year that is mentioned in all such
discussions).
Sorry, but that's not totally true. There was substantial
encourages the usage of non-free documentation. So, it's obvious
who has more reasons to remove something.
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to be removed
from the manual. Others have (it appears) said the same thing.
What about making the text modifiable?
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* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030923 08:51]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
Now, then next question is very clear for debian-legal: The Social
Contract (and the DFSG) say that all software in Debian must be 100%
free. So, the answer for Debian is: Every software.
I think
with it.
So, it's not true that all people using software as programms are
doing it to get better arguments. There are some people that do it,
especially if they are not able to adjust their usage of a word to the
meaning that's common here.
Cheers,
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to modify. We
require that from each software vendor, and also from the FSF.
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* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 08:02]:
I do not see either why RMS's political essays should be free in the
DFSG-sense either, even when included in a documentation.
Because we require them to be free if we include them in Debian?
Cheers,
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* MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 10:03]:
On 2003-09-22 07:33:48 +0100 Andreas Barth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry, but at least I understood software at start of discussion more
as a synonym to programms, but I'm not a native english speaker.
I am sorry that software has been
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 11:40]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 08:02]:
I do not see either why RMS's political essays should be free in the
DFSG-sense either, even when included in a documentation.
Because we
* MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030922 11:26]:
On 2003-09-22 09:27:52 +0100 Andreas Barth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes. However, as software is a so fundamental term to Debian, it
would perhaps be better to make an appropriate (semi-)official
statement anywhere.
It seems a little odd
, that's all.
We're here in debian-legal. That means, it's not about the personal
view, but about the view of debian, and the cause for us discussing
is in finding the common view.
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: The Social Contract (and the DFSG) say that all software
in Debian must be 100% free. So, the answer for Debian is: Every software.
However, everybody is allowed to do it different. He just shouldn't
try to urge his non-free software into Debian.
Cheers,
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to drink the coffee immediately. See
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
Cheers,
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-technical sections are ok.
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* MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030921 19:55]:
On 2003-09-21 17:43:46 +0100 Andreas Barth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here you are:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-doc.html
That is the RMS essay Free Software and Free Manuals not the GNU
Free Documentation Definition. An opinion essay
/andreas-barth/
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this enforcing bit of software. However, you're free to take
the source and remove this restrictions.
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.)
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* Anthony DeRobertis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030915 17:35]:
On Saturday, Sep 13, 2003, at 03:47 US/Eastern, Andreas Barth wrote:
That delivering only on such a medium is not ok according to GPL, is
obvious. It's also obvious that such a medium is not nice.
GPL 6 doesn't say that you may place
distinction) could be worked out.
Yes. But even with this one show stopper I would welcome it if the FSF
is fixing the bugs. Because at the end it would make their license
better (even if we can't include the manuals in debian then).
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, that's really a nice term. I like it at first sight much more than
free software or open source software.
(I'm a German, but may have read too many english books.)
Cheers,
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PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
sections.
That's really end of discussion. If this clear wordings stands also
for the FSF, than there is nothing how the manuals can become free.
So, just EOD. Sorry.
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030912 10:20]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
* Richard Stallman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030912 02:20]:
I considered this possibility in the 1980s, not as an option but
rather as a potential problem. So I developed a method to make sure
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030912 11:50]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
become free in the sense of Debian. And that means: free according to
the DFSG.
Hum, you mean in the sense of the Debian Free _SOFTWARE_ Guidelines?
Perhaps you should read the Social Contract
an supplement to your very true mail.]
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
) in
the sense of the DFSG. (That's called context. In my referenced mail
I even said explicit what I mean by the words free and non-free,
as I defined them, in the hope that even you won't missunderstand them.)
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45
, it should be ok (if
seeing Linux Wine as the OS, and not Linux).
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
_also_ on orange peels is ok, but not _only_ on
orange peels. The DFSG say that software must allow the also. The
GFDL disallows the also. The GPL just forbids the only.
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
by definition)?
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
is not the right thing to measure, now GFDL is not free
according to DFSG.
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
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into main. [Footnote: I do accept an adequate timeframe for
removal, but that's just a: Handle everything with care. It doesn't
change that it must be removed in long term.]
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
needs some ugly
tricks, and perhaps it would be better to create a new archive
non-free-installers for this (and similar code).
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
.
Cheers,
Andi
--
http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 13:50]:
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté :
* Mathieu Roy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030909 11:20]:
Not *in* Debian, but *shipped by* Debian. For you, there's no
distinction between GNU Emacs manual and Macromedia Flash?
There is exactly one
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