Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

7:22 ntpdate[9817]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

11 Jul 21:27:36 ntpdate[9827]: step time server 132.246.11.227
offset -0.005288 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  7462292 K used memory
 13107036 K active memory
  1465060 K inactive memory
  1121912 K free memory
59936 K buffer memory
  7382016 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
189957226 non-nice user cpu ticks
 77103656 nice user cpu ticks
232489899 system cpu ticks
582013003 idle cpu ticks
  2681070 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  5009761 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
306880449 pages paged in
 55217707 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
749330804 interrupts
   2602289249 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
547412536 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 306880449
pgpgout 55217707
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 67739341875
pgfault 116367091499
pgmajfault 944674

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 160 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)07/11/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

09:05:01 PM   2465.54  0.00  25578.34 15.52  17601.36
1370.44  0.00   1146.60 83.67 09:15:03 PM
5629.87  2.21  15255.68 28.42  12426.68   2968.83
0.62   2614.10 88.03 09:25:01 PM559.82  3.79
34624.58  3.46  22633.22376.50 12.01172.93
44.51 Average:70.92  0.18  22531.85  0.39
13006.09 39.84  0.10 33.09 82.85

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  52:00  0  TS kswapd0 00:52:00   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:52:00 -


Message replied to:

Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:05:26 +0200
From: Michael Kesper 
To: jlma...@gmail.com
Cc: debian-b...@lists.debian.org, debian-live@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD
Will Not Boot


> 
> Hi John,
> 
> > There were no replies to my post to
> > <mailto:debian-b...@lists.debian.org> of
> > <https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2019/06/msg00147.html>.
> > 
> > I then posted to <mailto:debian-live@lists.debian.org>
> > starting with
> > <https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2019/06/msg00016.html>
> > where there were various replies, suggestions and my
> > responses/actions to same.
> > 
> > The net my attempts to report a bug by validating my
> > concerns of bugs in the Buster Live CD image were such I
> > gave up.  If I could not be just a bit successful in
> > confirming to the Debian Community of bugs, then experience
> > has already demonstrated opening a bug report would be far
> > more time consuming and way too much spinning of others and
> > more.
> > 
> > I had no guidance how to capture the error messages
> > flashing on the  splash screen.  
> 
> Can you interrupt them by hitting the "Break" key on your
> keyboard? (Might require some key combination on laptops)
> Otherwise, there was a "bootdelay" parameter mentioned.
> As can be seen on
> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html
> the parameter really is "boot_delay" with an underscore.
> 
> > I managed using my own technical
> > skills, knowledge and alot of time to obtain the complete
> > and exact error messages that were flashing on the boot
> > splash screen.  Despite having the exact error messages and
> > what conditions the error messages displayed in I still
> > received basically an opinion of not a Buster issue.
> 
> Sorry, I did not find them in that thread?
>  
> > I gave up as too much wild goose chasing advise or m being
> > told not a bug at all.  In my opinion the facts were not
> > being not accepted of what was clear to me a bug (I
> > actually discovered a few bugs and only reported the easy
> > bug in my technical opinion) and not much help in the ask I
> > posted for how to obtain the error messages flashing on the
> > splash screen.
> 
> In this case you might need the same (or at least similar:
> AMD CPU/GPU, legacy BIOS boot) hardware to repro

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[Michael Kesper]

Hi John,

> There were no replies to my post to
>  of
> .
> 
> I then posted to 
> starting with
> 
> where there were various replies, suggestions and my
> responses/actions to same.
> 
> The net my attempts to report a bug by validating my concerns
> of bugs in the Buster Live CD image were such I gave up.  If I
> could not be just a bit successful in confirming to the Debian
> Community of bugs, then experience has already demonstrated
> opening a bug report would be far more time consuming and way
> too much spinning of others and more.
> 
> I had no guidance how to capture the error messages flashing on
> the  splash screen.  

Can you interrupt them by hitting the "Break" key on your keyboard?
(Might require some key combination on laptops)
Otherwise, there was a "bootdelay" parameter mentioned.
As can be seen on
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html
the parameter really is "boot_delay" with an underscore.

> I managed using my own technical
> skills, knowledge and alot of time to obtain the complete and
> exact error messages that were flashing on the boot splash
> screen.  Despite having the exact error messages and what
> conditions the error messages displayed in I still received
> basically an opinion of not a Buster issue.

Sorry, I did not find them in that thread?
 
> I gave up as too much wild goose chasing advise or m being told
> not a bug at all.  In my opinion the facts were not being not
> accepted of what was clear to me a bug (I actually discovered a
> few bugs and only reported the easy bug in my technical
> opinion) and not much help in the ask I posted for how to
> obtain the error messages flashing on the splash screen.

In this case you might need the same (or at least similar:
AMD CPU/GPU, legacy BIOS boot) hardware to reproduce this issue 
so it's not that easy.
 
[...]

> A familiar Open Source project response is they do not have the
> time to work on bugs/issues, works for them so cannot exist,
> nobody else has reported the issue/bug so cannot exist.  The
> latter two are actually far from truth of determining if a bug
> exists.  I worked many years in roles where the issue reported
> was a bug and often serious, but only one person/client often
> was only experiencing the issue.  I have worked on bugs that
> only occur once every few months.  I have found the cause of
> bugs in less than an hour the software engineering teams have
> not been able to identify in two years.  This is not me
> bragging or similar.  The point here is it takes a special set
> of soft skills, technical skills and problem solving skills
> that seems to be less and less understood and strived for with
> software/firmware.  

I can relate to this.

I don't have any solution though, sadly.
As Debian is completely made up of volunteers, everyone does what they
can but time is limited for everyone.

[...]

> As to the trying the released Buster Live, I happened to do so
> for secondary reasons this past weekend.  Serious issues in my
> opinion that may or may not be Live image specific.  I do not
> know as I was not going to investigate.

Unfortunately I cannot reproduce your specific bug.
When testing the live image with kvm though, I noticed many
squashfs errors, though, when shutting down.
Will try to report that when I find the time.

Best wishes
Michael



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

.993268759+-UTC Time:
1562739814.996850065

10 Jul 06:23:35 ntpdate[31747]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

10 Jul 06:23:49 ntpdate[31752]: step time server 206.108.0.133
offset -0.006960 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  8613592 K used memory
 13352480 K active memory
  1315668 K inactive memory
   948644 K free memory
   152648 K buffer memory
  6311272 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
184690468 non-nice user cpu ticks
 75495501 nice user cpu ticks
226136384 system cpu ticks
568036381 idle cpu ticks
  2660494 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  4890964 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
300938018 pages paged in
 55163531 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
473619250 interrupts
   2131057094 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
533263180 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 300938018
pgpgout 55163531
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 65923533081
pgfault 113208142124
pgmajfault 911321

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 160 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)07/10/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

05:55:01 AM  0.00  0.00  21859.04  0.00
11461.65  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 06:05:01
AM  0.00  0.00  22586.89  0.00  12370.20
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 06:15:01 AM  0.00
0.00  21821.60  0.00  11404.73  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.08  0.01  22477.55
0.00  12477.42  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:24  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:24   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:24 -


Message replied to:

Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:41:19 +0200
From: Michael Kesper 
To: jlma...@gmail.com, debian-b...@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD
Will Not Boot


> Hi John,
> 
> > Using the LiveCD LXDE image of 20190617 Will not boot to
> > Live Image.
> > 
> > Messages flash very quickly that make it difficult to see
> > the actual messages.  Adding the "debug" option to the boot
> > command line for the LiveCD boot has no impact on the speed
> > or type of error occurring.
> > 
> > The best I can see from several attempts to boot the LiveCD
> > image is some sort of error in the options for booting the
> > LiveCD image.
> > 
> > If one chooses any other menu option to boot such as
> > installing Debian there is no error and the image boots to
> > the install or intended menu item of initial boot splash
> > screen to select what one wants.
> > 
> > This is actually not strictly a Buster  Testing 10.x error.
> > This is fact also occurs more selectively with Debian
> > Stretch 9.9.0 and many prior versions.  I will skip the
> > messy details of how I have played the bugs against each
> > other to workaround what is in essence the same bug.
> 
> Just some general question:
> Did you verify the checksums of the images you downloaded?
> They are in the same directory where the iso images are
> placed.
> 
> Did you have a chance to try them on a different PC or with
> kvm?
> 
> Also there are official debian-live-10.0.0... isos now
> available. :)
> 
> Best wishes
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

a very technical and diverse IT background of many
years dealing with bugs that engineers in corporate environment
respond is not a bug that is in fact a bug and after weeks or
months of my time in various corporate settings manage to have
engineering admit the issue was a bug and over time those same
engineering teams will contact me to assist them to deal with
issues that have been going on for few years engineering cannot
identify.  The point here is not patting myself on back.  The
point here is I have seen countless times even with hard
evidence engineering teams will deny issue exists including
seeing systems for a 600 CSR team handling their 10 million
customers fail every day so system is down over 8 hours at time
as technical services teams deal with each day that engineers
say is not occurring.  I have had other team members pass
problems to me they want me to deal with as after months are
unable to find the bug issue which turns out to be a bug for
sure, but still takes a few weeks to isolate so can report to
engineering teams.  The scope includes many different OSs,
often OSs I have never seen or used before, various embedded
systems and protocol converters, wide wide range of
hardware/firmware, et al.

I think all for their input and questions, but I will no longer
spend time on this matter on any Debian mailing list nor will
file any Debian bugs.  I have spent way way too much time on
this matter matter that in my opinion is/are Debian bugs.

I have found clearly serious bugs in very well known OSS that
have existed for years that takes systems down for hours to
months that nobody believes is possible, let alone existed for
years.  When I first identified one of these OSS issues it was
just ignored despite clear simple concise test facts
presented.  The other issue I identified has also likewise
being dismissed as does not exist.  Both have become much worse
over the many years these bugs have existed.


John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
23 June 2019 20:35




2019-06-23 23:21:40.060975931+-UTC Time:
1561332100.063987283

23 Jun 23:21:40 ntpdate[10312]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

23 Jun 23:21:54 ntpdate[10320]: step time server 206.108.0.132
offset -0.011414 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  3311416 K used memory
  8701640 K active memory
  4738048 K inactive memory
  2066616 K free memory
   299300 K buffer memory
 10348824 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
147160026 non-nice user cpu ticks
 57049936 nice user cpu ticks
168283708 system cpu ticks
409408335 idle cpu ticks
  2476997 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  3680691 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
289226968 pages paged in
 33046508 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
   2489632846 interrupts
   2903916855 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
397272011 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 289226968
pgpgout 33046508
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 49205830615
pgfault 83228907917
pgmajfault 904290

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 144 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)06/23/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

10:55:01 PM  0.00  0.05  21728.41  0.00
11826.78  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 11:05:01
PM  0.00  0.00  22366.88  0.00  13101.99
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 11:15:01 PM  0.00
0.00  22106.74  0.00  12151.40  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.03  0.00  22078.69
0.00  11940.25  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:09  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:09   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:09 -


Message replied to:

Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:00:04 +
From: "John L. Males" 
To: debian-live@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD
Will Not Boot


> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hello Loco,
> 
> Sadly the the "bootdelay=" parameter does not make any change
> to the speed of the error messages to the splash screen.  As
> far as I can determine the bootdelay did not have any impact
> of a delay.  I 

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[Pipo]

Hi John,

> Hello Pipo,
>
> Regarding your suggestions:
>
> 1) To video record with phone has been one thought I have had.
> The challenge is the message flashes so fast as human I cannot
> even see the messages, just the fact the messages occur.  I
> tried adding "debug" to the boot command parameters in hopes
> that might show the messages in some more tangible manner that
> in essence did not change the challenge to see the messages.
>
That is strange, I do not recall any messages to be flashing.

Have you tried the failsafe boot?  That would avoid some 'clear screen' flash.


Also, please specify if you got the LiveCD from a Debian sites (link?) or if

you build it yourself (and how).


> 2) I do not think firmware is an issue as I have no problems
> with the same problem Buster 10 Testing image if I choose any
> other option on the splash screen than the Live Image option.
> In addition I have no problems booting to Live image with
> Lubuntu or Xubuntu for versions 19.04, 18.04, 16.04, 15.04, nor
> with Linux Mint, nor with Knoppix, nor Centos, and many more on
> both Lenovo systems (laptop and desktop).  I also had no
> problems booting Debian Jessie 8 Live.  These Live Image boot
> problems started with Debian 9 Stretch, but due to the odd
> nature of the bug I have played the bugs in manner to enable
> me to boot to Live Image for Debian 9 Stretch.  All of these
> cross tests points in my extensive QA/Systems/OS testing
> experience to a problem with how Debian vs other Debian based
> Live Images effect the boot from the Splash Menu, ie the
> commands used to boot the Live Image as that is what Debian
> 10 Buster Testing is showing, but I cannot capture it with
> pic or video as the message flashes so fast one cannot
> really see the message.

From what you say here, I still think that it could be a firmware issue.

I do not know exactly about the other distributions, but Knoppix, for sure,

includes the firmware (non-free) packages in his distribution.

If you take the live cd from Debian then they do not include non-free packages

by default (including the firmware).

If you build it yourself, firmware (and non-free) are not included by default

(you need to specify them).


>
> As an important side issue it seems to me if there is an error
> due to some command parameter to boot from the splash screen
> then the process used to boot via those commands should also
> have method to pause to show the errors encountered.  I am
> spending alot of time again trying to report obvious error
> with error messages that do  not provide a means to obtain
> the error messages the Live Boot is providing.  That causes
> the reporting of the issue and error to be one of between a
> rock and hard place void.
>
I agree that there should be one single option and very clear end very 
advertised

to print error messages (and logs) to screen in a recoverable fashion.

I have been in your place before.


- pipo





signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Lou,

I tried the "debug=1" via the Splash screen and no additional
nor additional delay in speed of the error messages being
displayed.  Still very fast cannot really see the messages,
just fragments of messages due to speed of and return to
initial Splash screen.

I have discovered the two Splash boot menu items fail:

Debian GNU/Linux Live (kernel 4.19.0-5-amd64)
Debian Live with Localisation Support

Both fail with same very fast and appears the same error
messages returning to the initial Splash screen.

Only the three "Installer" Splash menus boot with no issues nor
error messages.

I become "creative".

Creative one is the messages and error are:

Loading /live/vmlinuz-4.19.0-5-amd64... ok
Loading /live/initrd.img-4.19.0-5-amd64...ok
Booting kernel failed: Invalid argument

Additional creative attempts are:

Only using boot=live and no additional boot parameters other
than .linux and initrd still same messages as noted above.
Other combinations of the grub boot command options were tried
with the same messages as above.

It would be my considered opinion I have enough details and
tests to open at least one bug based on all the information and
ideas suggested that do not resolve this bug I have with two
different Lenovo machines (laptop and desktop).

I will be busy for next day or two.  This means my time and
attention will be even more spotty than the past 24+ hours.


John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
22 June 2019 02:09
  



2019-06-22 05:46:44.145733923+-UTC Time:
1561182404.149285343

22 Jun 05:46:44 ntpdate[25961]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

22 Jun 05:46:58 ntpdate[25969]: step time server 206.108.0.133
offset -0.005692 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  3747360 K used memory
  9088300 K active memory
  4944608 K inactive memory
  1466884 K free memory
   292716 K buffer memory
 10519196 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
144090535 non-nice user cpu ticks
 54967678 nice user cpu ticks
161838346 system cpu ticks
392024394 idle cpu ticks
  2472186 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  3548821 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
289204268 pages paged in
 32931412 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
   2267862263 interrupts
   2566966347 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
382209081 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 289204268
pgpgout 32931412
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 47396925925
pgfault 79900393219
pgmajfault 904112

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 144 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)06/22/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

05:25:01 AM  0.00  0.05  22527.99  0.00
12514.62  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 05:35:01
AM  0.00  0.03  21788.85  0.00  11417.73
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 05:45:01 AM  0.00
0.00  22570.52  0.00  12425.58  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.00 10.95  22178.82
0.00  11968.92  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:09  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:09   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:09 -
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-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[Lou Poppler]

On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 19:34 +, John L. Males wrote:
> Hello Pipo,
> 
> Regarding your suggestions:
> 
> 1) To video record with phone has been one thought I have had.
> The challenge is the message flashes so fast as human I cannot
> even see the messages, just the fact the messages occur.  I
> tried adding "debug" to the boot command parameters in hopes
> that might show the messages in some more tangible manner that
> in essence did not change the challenge to see the messages.

>From additional RTFMing, I see the suggestion that this parameter should be
added as "debug=1".  I tried this on my working live systems, and it does show
more output than normally.  Maybe worth a try for you, in case it shows some
output and then stops at the point your problem occurs.  

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Loco,

Sadly the the "bootdelay=" parameter does not make any change
to the speed of the error messages to the splash screen.  As
far as I can determine the bootdelay did not have any impact of
a delay.  I tried values of 1, 1000, 7000, 8000.

I tried to video the original issue with no boot delay in hopes
may capture the error message on the video.  So success unless
I try to edit the file to see frame by frame is something more
might be extracted.  That will clearly take time.  I have some
other commitments so it may take me a few days between
commitments, time to find software to look at frame by frame,
and the actual time to go through the frames before I know if
I can find any sense of the exact error messages that are
being sent to the splash screen.

I think at minimum one bug should be opened concerning the
fact the error messages fly by with no ability to capture the
error messages issued by the boot parameters of a splash
screen boot menu choice a user selects.  That in itself has
caused me many hours of effort to find out the message and time
of others to test or respond to the issue of the Live Image
failing to load that as indicated all other Live Images
based on Debian boot with no issue on at least two Lenovo
systems I have.


John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
21 June 2019 19:00




2019-06-21 22:44:11.817141180+-UTC Time:
1561157051.821097215

21 Jun 22:44:11 ntpdate[27517]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

21 Jun 22:44:26 ntpdate[27524]: step time server 206.108.0.132
offset -0.005730 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  3615912 K used memory
  9005812 K active memory
  5026860 K inactive memory
  1466976 K free memory
   292480 K buffer memory
 10650788 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
143600260 non-nice user cpu ticks
 54498370 nice user cpu ticks
160706614 system cpu ticks
389208998 idle cpu ticks
  2470870 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  3527106 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
289204260 pages paged in
 32704708 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
   2229440451 interrupts
   2507703921 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
379662352 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 289204260
pgpgout 32704708
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 47092961190
pgfault 79337426075
pgmajfault 904112

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 144 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)06/21/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

10:15:01 PM  0.00  0.00  22366.62  0.00
11917.31  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 10:25:01
PM  0.00  0.00  22890.88  0.00  12573.94
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 10:35:01 PM  0.00
0.00  22503.77  0.00  12080.69  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.00  2.81  22134.99
0.00  11927.34  1.10  0.00  1.10 99.97

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:09  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:09   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:09 -
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Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Loco,

First I like to apologize in posting my last post for not
deleting the prior message I sent Lou.  I am not on the mailing
list so I cannot reply to the messages like normal eMail
replies.  I take the last eMail I send and suppose to delete
the prior inline eMail then respond as needed to the replies
posted.

It also means I forgot to ask if in replying to CC me in so I
can reply to the posting made by someone if that makes the
threading structure of the thread in manner people expect.

Thanks for the suggestion of the "bootdelay=" parameter.  I
will look into it before trying it.  Then I will see if I can
try a related test in next day/two.  The system I will test on
has Lubuntu 19.04 Live running on it at moment.  I will need to
save the ram data before I shut it down.  Then I can test the
"bootdelay=" parameter.


John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
21 June 2019 15:46




2019-06-21 19:36:05.925229114+-UTC Time:
1561145765.928713016

21 Jun 19:36:05 ntpdate[25741]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

21 Jun 19:36:20 ntpdate[25747]: step time server 206.108.0.131
offset -0.006576 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  4278076 K used memory
  9466036 K active memory
  5035048 K inactive memory
   997108 K free memory
   292432 K buffer memory
 10458540 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
143332387 non-nice user cpu ticks
 54316119 nice user cpu ticks
160187408 system cpu ticks
387993585 idle cpu ticks
  2470309 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  3517380 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
289204198 pages paged in
 32704708 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
   2212366635 interrupts
   2480586396 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
378514677 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 289204198
pgpgout 32704708
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 46953751582
pgfault 79083693786
pgmajfault 904110

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 144 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)06/21/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

07:15:01 PM  0.00  0.00  21954.03  0.00
11853.27  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 07:25:01
PM  0.00  0.00  22522.05  0.00  12229.14
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 07:35:01 PM  0.00
0.00  8.29  0.00  11705.72  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.00  3.24  22085.61
0.00  11871.29  1.27  0.00  1.26 99.97

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:09  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:09   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:09 -

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Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Pipo,

Regarding your suggestions:

1) To video record with phone has been one thought I have had.
The challenge is the message flashes so fast as human I cannot
even see the messages, just the fact the messages occur.  I
tried adding "debug" to the boot command parameters in hopes
that might show the messages in some more tangible manner that
in essence did not change the challenge to see the messages.

2) I do not think firmware is an issue as I have no problems
with the same problem Buster 10 Testing image if I choose any
other option on the splash screen than the Live Image option.
In addition I have no problems booting to Live image with
Lubuntu or Xubuntu for versions 19.04, 18.04, 16.04, 15.04, nor
with Linux Mint, nor with Knoppix, nor Centos, and many more on
both Lenovo systems (laptop and desktop).  I also had no
problems booting Debian Jessie 8 Live.  These Live Image boot
problems started with Debian 9 Stretch, but due to the odd
nature of the bug I have played the bugs in manner to enable
me to boot to Live Image for Debian 9 Stretch.  All of these
cross tests points in my extensive QA/Systems/OS testing
experience to a problem with how Debian vs other Debian based
Live Images effect the boot from the Splash Menu, ie the
commands used to boot the Live Image as that is what Debian
10 Buster Testing is showing, but I cannot capture it with
pic or video as the message flashes so fast one cannot
really see the message.

As an important side issue it seems to me if there is an error
due to some command parameter to boot from the splash screen
then the process used to boot via those commands should also
have method to pause to show the errors encountered.  I am
spending alot of time again trying to report obvious error
with error messages that do  not provide a means to obtain
the error messages the Live Boot is providing.  That causes
the reporting of the issue and error to be one of between a
rock and hard place void.


John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
21 June 2019 15:34




2019-06-21 19:12:15.862373561+-UTC Time:
1561144335.866101725

21 Jun 19:12:15 ntpdate[8753]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

21 Jun 19:12:30 ntpdate[8759]: step time server 74.208.26.225
offset -0.012241 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  3912988 K used memory
  9098448 K active memory
  5022900 K inactive memory
  1377408 K free memory
   292432 K buffer memory
 10443328 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
143299371 non-nice user cpu ticks
 54301094 nice user cpu ticks
160121311 system cpu ticks
387831264 idle cpu ticks
  2470216 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  3516082 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
289204198 pages paged in
 32704708 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
   2210197062 interrupts
   2477277560 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
378370601 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 289204198
pgpgout 32704708
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 46936698140
pgfault 79051764684
pgmajfault 904110

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 144 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)06/21/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

06:45:01 PM  0.00  0.00  22435.75  0.00
12467.11  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 06:55:01
PM  0.00  0.00  22063.20  0.00  12030.96
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 07:05:01 PM  0.00
0.00  22534.87  0.00  12439.55  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.00  3.32  22081.70
0.00  11869.76  1.30  0.00  1.30 99.97

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:09  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:09   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:09 -


Message replied to:

Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 00:48:12 +
From: "John L. Males" 
To: debian-live@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD
Will Not Boot


> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Lou,
> 
> Always makes sense to rule out variables and not to assume.
> 
> OS has been Linux Kernel based since 1999.
> 
> I use "dd bs=8

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[AreYouLoco?]

There is a kernel parameter bootdelay=value that slows down the output of 
kernel messgaes. I just dont remember of ots in seconds or miliseconds. Maybe 
try that?

On June 21, 2019 5:45:21 PM UTC, Pipo  wrote:
>Hi John,
>
>I have 2 suggestions for you;
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Using the LiveCD LXDE image of 20190617 Will not boot to Live
>> Image.
>>
>> Messages flash very quickly that make it difficult to see the
>> actual messages.  Adding the "debug" option to the boot command
>> line for the LiveCD boot has no impact on the speed or type of
>> error occurring.
>>
>1.- Maybe try to film the boot process with your phone or something
>else and then view the
>
>video in slow motion after.  I did that once and was able to get at the
>error message.
>
>2.- Maybe look into the area of firmware.  I remember vaguely having an
>issue about that and
>
>it was very hard to pinpoint.
>
>
>- pipo

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[Pipo]

Hi John,

I have 2 suggestions for you;

> Hello,
>
> Using the LiveCD LXDE image of 20190617 Will not boot to Live
> Image.
>
> Messages flash very quickly that make it difficult to see the
> actual messages.  Adding the "debug" option to the boot command
> line for the LiveCD boot has no impact on the speed or type of
> error occurring.
>
1.- Maybe try to film the boot process with your phone or something else and 
then view the

video in slow motion after.  I did that once and was able to get at the error 
message.

2.- Maybe look into the area of firmware.  I remember vaguely having an issue 
about that and

it was very hard to pinpoint.


- pipo





signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Lou,

Always makes sense to rule out variables and not to assume.

OS has been Linux Kernel based since 1999.

I use "dd bs=8192 if=Live.iso of=/dev/USBDrive ; sync" most of
time.   Most meaning sometimes use a "bs=4096" if the
information or math of ISO image size says/suggests so.

The sync is important as there is often lots of image still
buffered in Kernel.  Often takes a few minutes after dd
completes for sync to ensure buffers related to dd are written
to the USBDrive (i.e. /dev/sdb).  In this instance Debian 9.9.0
LiveCD (LXDE) was used via laptop that has had the ongoing
LiveCD boot issues of Debian 9.x I have played the bugs against
each other to be able to boot from the laptop.


John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
20 June 2019 20:48




2019-06-21 00:35:14.156350816+-UTC Time:
1561077314.159613415

21 Jun 00:35:14 ntpdate[4535]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

21 Jun 00:35:28 ntpdate[4541]: step time server 206.108.0.131
offset -0.006477 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  3770552 K used memory
  9750176 K active memory
  5203816 K inactive memory
   541176 K free memory
   292240 K buffer memory
 11422188 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
141947756 non-nice user cpu ticks
 53380973 nice user cpu ticks
157137363 system cpu ticks
380106848 idle cpu ticks
  2466874 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  3458008 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
289204170 pages paged in
 32476380 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
   2109821021 interrupts
   2325654452 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
371641245 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 289204170
pgpgout 32476380
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 46141268903
pgfault 77571991655
pgmajfault 904109

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 144 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)06/21/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

12:15:01 AM  0.00  0.00  21707.77  0.00
11651.89  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 12:25:01
AM  0.00  0.00  22399.86  0.00  12227.66
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 12:35:01 AM  0.00
0.00  21827.15  0.00  11505.48  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.00  0.00  22141.90
0.00  11927.47  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:09  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:09   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:09 -
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-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Lou,

I cannot access any console if I choose the LiveCD image option.

As I have indicated with Buster 10 Testing I cannot boot to the
Live Image on either machine I have.  This means I cannot
access the other TTY consoles.

With Stretch 9.x I can boot to the Live Image on the two
machines if I "play a dance" in what 9.x image I choose to
use.  In all cases I can boot to all the other splash screen
boot choices with Buster 10 Testing  and Stretch 9.x.

I can boot to Live image with Lubuntu and Xubuntu 15.04,
16.04, 18.04, 19.04, Linux Mint, Knoppix and Debian 8 Jessie to
name just a few with no problems/issues.  This strongly suggests
to me that starting with Debian Stretch 9 and continuing with
Debian Buster 10 that there not only has been a change in how
the Live Image is created or configured.  The best guess I have
from the quickly flashing error for the Live Image boot is some
boot parameter is incorrect.

I have compared the boot parameters of the different boot
choice options with the Buster 10 Testing LiveCD and using
those differences other that the kernel and initrd the other
options choose and other permutation choices of what to remove
as boot option or add as boot option to the Live Image boot
options with no success of being able to boot to the Live Image
of the LiveCD image.  I have also tried adding the "debug"
option to the Live Image boot options in hopes I see more or
actually be able to see the error messages that occur that
cause the Live Image option to fail and just return to the
initial splash screen one chooses to start Live Image or
language, or install style choice.


John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
20 June 2019 19:17




2019-06-20 22:54:08.836816761+-UTC Time:
1561071248.840116108

20 Jun 22:54:08 ntpdate[32602]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

20 Jun 22:54:23 ntpdate[32609]: step time server 206.108.0.133
offset -0.007636 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  3775396 K used memory
  9601980 K active memory
  5194260 K inactive memory
   698872 K free memory
   292240 K buffer memory
 11259648 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
141796671 non-nice user cpu ticks
 53282809 nice user cpu ticks
156874268 system cpu ticks
379444038 idle cpu ticks
  2466552 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  3452700 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
289204170 pages paged in
 32476380 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
   2100659732 interrupts
   2311275345 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
371029736 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 289204170
pgpgout 32476380
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 46069271617
pgfault 77438102608
pgmajfault 904109

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 144 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)06/20/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

10:25:01 PM  0.00  0.00  22351.19  0.00
12126.97  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 10:35:01
PM  0.00  0.00  21978.19  0.00  11708.37
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 10:45:01 PM  0.00
0.00  22245.13  0.00  12109.75  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.09 63.37  22148.51
0.00  11957.30  5.99  0.01  6.00100.00

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:09  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:09   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:09 -


Message replied to:

Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 20:23:30 +
From: "John L. Males" 
To: debian-live@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD
Will Not Boot


> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Alf,
> 
> Great you tried a few machines with USB image for real boot of
> machines via the USB.  I would assume that if the issue was of
> larger scope of unknown variables that would affect more
> machines then there be alot more raising the issue.
> 
> The two different machines that I have have cause to run Live
> images on are Lenovo's.  One machine your tested with was a
> Lenovo laptop.  One of the failing machines for the LiveCD
> boot images is the Lenovo laptop 

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[Lou Poppler]

On Thu, 2019-06-20 at 15:03 -0700, Lou Poppler wrote:
> On Thu, 2019-06-20 at 20:23 +, John L. Males wrote:
> [...]
> > Again I need to be clear it is the option on the splash screen
> > to boot the Live image that fails.  If one chooses any of the
> > other options of that same image that appear on the splash boot
> > screen they all work.  So the issue is specific to choosing the
> > Live boot image of the image only.
> 
> I downloaded debian-live-testing-amd64-lxde.iso from 2019-06-17 and cp-ed it
> onto a USB stick and booted into the live system options successfully
> on 2 machines I have here:
> 1) Toshiba laptop with i3-3110M CPU, in legacy boot mode,
> 2) Dell desktop tower with i5-6500 CPU, in UEFI "non-secure" boot mode.
> 
> Both came immediately to the splash screen and waited for me to choose,
> then happily entered the live system when selected.

I just booted it again on the laptop, and I must say it was a little slow
getting into the LXDE environment, but after maybe a minute, it got there.

The LXDE world comes up on VT 7.  I was able to get text consoles on VT1-VT6 (by
pressing Ctrl-Alt-F1  etc), and at those consoles I see lots of logs in
/var/log/

Are you able to access the text consoles, and do you see any logs there ?

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[Lou Poppler]

On Thu, 2019-06-20 at 20:23 +, John L. Males wrote:
[...]
> Again I need to be clear it is the option on the splash screen
> to boot the Live image that fails.  If one chooses any of the
> other options of that same image that appear on the splash boot
> screen they all work.  So the issue is specific to choosing the
> Live boot image of the image only.

I downloaded debian-live-testing-amd64-lxde.iso from 2019-06-17 and cp-ed it
onto a USB stick and booted into the live system options successfully
on 2 machines I have here:
1) Toshiba laptop with i3-3110M CPU, in legacy boot mode,
2) Dell desktop tower with i5-6500 CPU, in UEFI "non-secure" boot mode.

Both came immediately to the splash screen and waited for me to choose,
then happily entered the live system when selected.

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Alf,

Great you tried a few machines with USB image for real boot of
machines via the USB.  I would assume that if the issue was of
larger scope of unknown variables that would affect more
machines then there be alot more raising the issue.

The two different machines that I have have cause to run Live
images on are Lenovo's.  One machine your tested with was a
Lenovo laptop.  One of the failing machines for the LiveCD boot
images is the Lenovo laptop of mine.  The other failing system
is also a Lenovo.

Again I need to be clear it is the option on the splash screen
to boot the Live image that fails.  If one chooses any of the
other options of that same image that appear on the splash boot
screen they all work.  So the issue is specific to choosing the
Live boot image of the image only.  What is amazing is Lubuntu,
Xubuntu, Linux Mint, Knoppix, and many many more Live images
all boot just fine and have for years with now issue ant they
are all Debian based!  With Debian the issues started to arise
with Stretch 9.x.  I never has an issue with Debian 8 Live
images on these machines as I recall.

What I really need is how to obtain the error message(s) the
live boot is issuing on the splash screen for the Live Image
boot.  I expect those messages that flash by in subsecond speed
are first step to identify why the Live image does not boot.


John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
20 June 2019 16:23




2019-06-20 20:10:40.283351518+-UTC Time:
1561061440.286592079

20 Jun 20:10:40 ntpdate[1197]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

20 Jun 20:10:54 ntpdate[1205]: step time server 206.108.0.131
offset -0.005361 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  3775972 K used memory
  9521576 K active memory
  5194248 K inactive memory
   778828 K free memory
   292240 K buffer memory
 11179116 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
141610564 non-nice user cpu ticks
 53148982 nice user cpu ticks
156447571 system cpu ticks
378292701 idle cpu ticks
  2465994 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  3443958 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
289204170 pages paged in
 32476380 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
   2085975195 interrupts
   2289359917 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
370039953 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 289204170
pgpgout 32476380
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 45953551731
pgfault 77221858206
pgmajfault 904109

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 144 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)06/20/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

07:45:01 PM  0.00  0.00  22179.84  0.00
11988.16  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 07:55:01
PM  0.00  0.00  21784.54  0.00  11469.02
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 08:05:01 PM  0.00
0.00  22312.34  0.00  12116.62  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.10 71.78  22162.00
0.00  11977.84  6.79  0.01  6.80100.00

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:09  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:09   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:09 -


Message replied to:

Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:06:35 +
From: "John L. Males" 
To: debian-live@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD
Will Not Boot


> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Alf,
> 
> Testing via a VM is not the same as booting native on real
> machine.  I could list a number of LiveCD and Non-Live Images
> that fail to boot in VM, but boot on real machine just fine.
> 
> I will repeat again same image same PC fails the LiveCD boot,
> but as I noted boots fine using any other splash boot option
> of that same image.  Therefore there is a problem with the
> LiveCD boot option that I did note this has been an ongoing in
> variation with the Stretch 9.x LiveCD images.  This means the
> issue(s) have been about for some time now, just worse with
> Buster 10 Testing. I know how to work about using the bugs
> to advantage with the 9.x LiveCD images.
> 
>

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[Alf Gaida]

On 20.06.19 20:06, John L. Males wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Alf,

Testing via a VM is not the same as booting native on real
machine.  I could list a number of LiveCD and Non-Live Images
that fail to boot in VM, but boot on real machine just fine.
Ok, i don't know much about linux and such things - so i put the image 
on a stick, booted my lenovo flex 14 with this stick (UEFI) and it came 
up fine. Then i took the same stick and put it into a cheap HP with 
intel silver and it booted just fine - UEFI too. Sorry, didn't test 
legacy boots on real hardware, but kvm and vbox was legacy. ymmv


Cheers Alf

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[John L. Males]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Alf,

Testing via a VM is not the same as booting native on real
machine.  I could list a number of LiveCD and Non-Live Images
that fail to boot in VM, but boot on real machine just fine.

I will repeat again same image same PC fails the LiveCD boot,
but as I noted boots fine using any other splash boot option of
that same image.  Therefore there is a problem with the LiveCD
boot option that I did note this has been an ongoing in
variation with the Stretch 9.x LiveCD images.  This means the
issue(s) have been about for some time now, just worse with
Buster 10 Testing. I know how to work about using the bugs
to advantage with the 9.x LiveCD images.


John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
20 June 2019 14:06




2019-06-20 17:55:45.966839671+-UTC Time:
1561053345.970263680

20 Jun 17:55:45 ntpdate[16109]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)

20 Jun 17:56:00 ntpdate[16116]: step time server 206.108.0.131
offset -0.007045 sec

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)

Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
(Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)

cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):

model name  : AMD E-350 Processor

vmstat -s:

 16026156 K total memory
  3768516 K used memory
  9448064 K active memory
  5196508 K inactive memory
   850432 K free memory
   292240 K buffer memory
 4968 K swap cache
0 K total swap
0 K used swap
0 K free swap
141447710 non-nice user cpu ticks
 53051620 nice user cpu ticks
156093662 system cpu ticks
377339591 idle cpu ticks
  2465563 IO-wait cpu ticks
0 IRQ cpu ticks
  3436650 softirq cpu ticks
0 stolen cpu ticks
289204170 pages paged in
 32476380 pages paged out
0 pages swapped in
0 pages swapped out
   2073867145 interrupts
   2271355632 CPU context switches
   1557283473 boot time
369223784 forks

/proc/vmstat (Selected):

pgpgin 289204170
pgpgout 32476380
pswpin 0
pswpout 0
pgfree 45857655061
pgfault 77043328335
pgmajfault 904108

/proc/meminfo (Selected):

Mlocked: 144 kB
VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
VmallocChunk:  0 kB
HugePages_Total:   0

vmstat --partition /dev/sda8 (Swap):

partition was not found

sar -b:

Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 (debian)06/20/2019
_x86_64_(2 CPU)

12:00:01 AM  pgpgin/s pgpgout/s   fault/s  majflt/s  pgfree/s
pgscank/s pgscand/s pgsteal/s%vmeff

05:35:01 PM  0.00  0.00  21789.31  0.00
11491.05  0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 05:45:01
PM  0.00  0.00  22193.83  0.00  12401.98
0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00 05:55:01 PM  0.00
0.00  21823.39  0.00  11570.44  0.00  0.00
0.00  0.00 Average: 0.12 80.46  22173.02
0.00  11991.82  7.61  0.01  7.62100.00

ps -A:

%CPU  START   TIME  C CLS COMMAND TIME  NI   PID
POL PRISZ   RSSVSZ  SIZE  MAJFL  MINFL SCH STAT
TIME WCHAN

 0.0 May  8  51:09  0  TS kswapd0 00:51:09   035
TS   19 0 0  0 0  0  0   0 S
00:51:09 -


Message replied to:

Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 16:08:28 +
From: "John L. Males" 
To: debian-live@lists.debian.org
Subject: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will
Not Boot


> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Using the LiveCD LXDE image of 20190617 Will not boot to Live
> Image.
> 
> Messages flash very quickly that make it difficult to see the
> actual messages.  Adding the "debug" option to the boot
> command line for the LiveCD boot has no impact on the speed
> or type of error occurring.
> 
> The best I can see from several attempts to boot the LiveCD
> image is some sort of error in the options for booting the
> LiveCD image.
> 
> If one chooses any other menu option to boot such as
> installing Debian there is no error and the image boots to
> the install or intended menu item of initial boot splash
> screen to select what one wants.
> 

[snip]

> 
> 
> John L. Males
> Toronto, Ontario
> Canada
> 19 June 2019 23:55/20 June 2019 11:59/12:08
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2019-06-20 15:49:28.838489012+-UTC Time:
> 1561045768.841736848
> 
> 20 Jun 15:49:28 ntpdate[18598]: ntpdate 4.2.8p10@1.3728-o Sun
> Feb 25 21:22:56 UTC 2018 (1)
> 
> 20 Jun 15:49:43 ntpdate[18604]: step time server 206.108.0.133
> offset -0.006861 sec
> 
> Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1 (2019-04-12)
> 
> Modified Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)
> (Alternative to Debian determined, work in progress)
> 
> cat /proc/cpuinfo (Selected):
> 
> model name: AMD E-350 Processor
> 
> vmstat -s:
> 
>  16026156 K total memory
>   3768068 K used memory
>   9372920 K active memory
>   5201456 K inactive memory
>920600 K free memory

Re: Bug: Buster 10.0 Testing 20190617 Image LiveCD Will Not Boot

[Alf Gaida]

boots fine in virtualbox and kvm - so it might be a broken download or 
something else.