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On 16/10/2014 3:22 AM, Slavko wrote:
But e.g. my dbus package doesn't depends on systemd at all:
LANG=en aptitude show dbus | grep Depends -A2
Depends: libaudit1 (= 1:2.2.1), libc6 (= 2.17), libcap-ng0, libdbus-1-3 (=
1.7.6),
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:42:58PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
They were using ConsoleKit, which was orphaned upstream some time
after systemd-logind came along.
I rest my case.
There's nothing at all (not even Red Hat) preventing anyone (even you!) from
stepping up and taking over
On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 12:29:23 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
any thoughts re. conflicts between what's in, say
tasksel tasksel/first standard, web-server
and
d-i pkgsel/include string sysvinit-core systemd-shim
I don't believe there are any. I think what happens is that standard
and
On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 12:53:52 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 23:37:37 +0900
Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote:
2014/10/15 1:47 Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk:
Give me swearing in posts rather than innuendo and attempted
character assassination of a group dedicated
On 10/15/2014 01:38 PM, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014, Sven Joachim wrote:
I don't think there is actually an I/O error here, looking at the code
systemd-gpt-auto-generator makes this error up:
,
| errno = 0;
| r = blkid_probe_lookup_value(b, PTTYPE, pttype,
On 10/15/2014 12:34 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
On 10/15/2014 at 12:06 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/15/2014 8:14 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 10/14/2014 3:28 PM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net
wrote:
But you just said it was OK to delete emails.
Please don't misquote me. I said it was
Tanstaafl wrote:
On 10/15/2014 12:50 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
I'll close by noting that this branch of discussion started with a focus
on silently dropping spam, and whether that's a violation of standards.
Actually, no, this branch started with a focus on whether
On 10/15/2014 12:40 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 10/15/2014 12:06 PM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 10/15/2014 8:14 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 10/14/2014 3:28 PM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
But you just said it was OK to delete emails.
Please don't misquote me. I
Jonathan Dowland wrote:
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:42:58PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
They were using ConsoleKit, which was orphaned upstream some time
after systemd-logind came along.
I rest my case.
There's nothing at all (not even Red Hat) preventing anyone (even you!) from
stepping up and
On 15/10/14 17:30, Steve Litt wrote:
Pre-cisely. I see Red Hat's fingerprints all over that unmaintained
status. If not for Red Hat, somebody would have picked up ConsoleKit.
After all, as shown in
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/whos-writing-linux ,
there's plenty of money floating
On 14 October 2014 17:10, Don Armstrong d...@debian.org wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014, Marty wrote:
It seems like free software employment and market share come with
increasing risk to objectivity and technical quality.
People have to eat. Almost everyone who works on Debian has someone who
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 03:16:38PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
In theory. But in practice, folks make practical decisions as to
expenditure of time and resources. For example, once Debian
committed to systemd, Ubuntu followed suit - I expect that upstart
will promptly whither and die.
Thanks Brian.
See follow-up question embedded below.
Brian wrote:
On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 12:29:23 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
any thoughts re. conflicts between what's in, say
tasksel tasksel/first standard, web-server
and
d-i pkgsel/include string sysvinit-core systemd-shim
I don't
On 10/12/2014 09:30 AM, Gary Roach wrote:
On 10/11/2014 06:28 PM, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014, Gary Roach wrote:
After cloning my bad drive to a new one and installing the new drive
(see previous messages titled excessive CPU usage) i am left with the
following problem:
Kate and
On 10/15/2014 07:08 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 15.10.2014 12:09, Brian a écrit :
On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 10:41:12 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
wrote:
Le 15.10.2014 09:11, Jonathan Dowland a écrit :
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:51:07AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
Check out
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On 16/10/2014 6:49 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
reported bugs will get less attention nowtoo). But the consolekit
deprecation happened a long time before the tech-ctte decision
about systemd. Some one/people could have picked it up long ago.
If
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 07:22:55AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
ConsoleKit has been fixed for kFreeBSD build, I expect fixing it in
normal Debian/GNU wouldn't have been harder than choosing systemd.
It really needs (needed) adopting upstream, not just in Debian, because it's
upstream where
Martin Read zen75...@zen.co.uk writes:
(snip)
* The set of people hostile to systemd seems to include a lot of people
who don't see much need for the likes of ConsoleKit either.
(snip)
This is actually a rather good point. The machines I am most
conservative about, and wanting to make sure
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:15:24 -0400
Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
It is either OK to delete an email or it is not. You can't have it
both ways.
It is *not* OK to silently delete an already accepted email, it does
indeed break SMTP as a reliable protocol ('reliable' as in:
On 10/15/2014 12:39 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
We've actually been in this place before. Wonderful Linux company
Caldera became SCO (oversimplification, but you know what I mean).
Wonderful Linux company Corel changed their CEO, and promptly accepted
money from Microsoft and dropped all their
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 03:34:40PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Thoughts?
I'm drawing blanks at the moment, but I'm glad you are looking at this.
I'll see if I can poke about a bit Tomorrow.
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On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:13:27 -0400
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
Tanstaafl wrote:
My position is that:
1. email to invalid recipients should be rejected at the RCPT-TO
stage,
Easier said then done - at least when a server does relaying, but
clearly ideal when
On Mi, 15 oct 14, 09:46:47, The Wanderer wrote:
I suspect that the answer is they just didn't provide the functionality
which ConsoleKit, and later systemd-logind, now enable them to provide,
but I'm not aware - in a clear-understanding, defined-boundaries sense -
of exactly what that
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 09:43:00AM +0200, Anders Wegge Keller wrote:
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 04:07:25 +1100
Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote:
Given that your only contribution to the list is outright and offensive
hypocrisy why should you not be rightfully dismissed as
2014/10/16 5:46 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com:
On 10/15/2014 12:39 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
We've actually been in this place before. Wonderful Linux company
Caldera became SCO (oversimplification, but you know what I mean).
Wonderful Linux company Corel changed their CEO, and promptly
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 21:44:30 +0100
Joe j...@jretrading.com wrote:
Hello Joe,
It is *not* OK to silently delete an already accepted email, it does
Unfortunately, it happens; Send an email with a large attachment(1) and
there are quite a few servers that will silently drop it. The worst of
it
On Mi, 15 oct 14, 18:22:28, Slavko wrote:
Dňa Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:31:02 +0300 Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com napísal:
Using Debian package dependencies this is expressed as
Depends: libpam-systemd by those packages that actually require those
interfaces
$ aptitude search
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:42:58PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 09:08:26 +0100
Martin Read zen75...@zen.co.uk wrote:
On 14/10/14 22:56, Steve Litt wrote:
And how were they handling this task before systemd?
They were using ConsoleKit, which was orphaned upstream
On 10/15/2014 12:34 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
That's a problem in itself. There should be room for real discussion as
is taking place here on the debian-user list, without fear of having
posts filtered.
I agree, but they (the moderators) have a vested interest when someone
posts something
On Mi, 15 oct 14, 21:37:57, Scott Ferguson wrote:
As far as I'm aware Debian has *never* been sold anywhere, nor are
there plans to - did I miss another meeting down the docks?
http://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/
No, that's not meant as a joke. As far as I understand, this is about
the only
On Wednesday 15 October 2014 22:44:18 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Mi, 15 oct 14, 21:37:57, Scott Ferguson wrote:
As far as I'm aware Debian has *never* been sold anywhere, nor are
there plans to - did I miss another meeting down the docks?
http://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/
No, that's not
On 10/15/2014 05:06 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
2014/10/16 5:46 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com
mailto:wayward4...@gmail.com:
On 10/15/2014 12:39 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
We've actually been in this place before. Wonderful Linux company
Caldera became SCO (oversimplification, but you know what I
Ric Moore wrote:
On 10/15/2014 12:34 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
That's a problem in itself. There should be room for real discussion as
is taking place here on the debian-user list, without fear of having
posts filtered.
I agree, but they (the moderators) have a vested interest when
On Mi, 15 oct 14, 12:29:23, Miles Fidelman wrote:
3. Is there a way to list all packages with priority standard -
preferably via the package repo or one of the staging servers rather
than having to first setup up a jessie installation and pulling in the
source list?
You don't need a full
2014/10/16 5:59 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com:
On Mi, 15 oct 14, 09:46:47, The Wanderer wrote:
I suspect that the answer is they just didn't provide the functionality
which ConsoleKit, and later systemd-logind, now enable them to provide,
but I'm not aware - in a
On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 15:34:40 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
So where in base system is systemd installed?
This is the list of packages in base (from the source for the jessie
version of debian-installer/build/pkg-lists/base as of yesterday):
[A little snipping]
I'd suggest that the
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:30:26PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
I completely understand not reinventing the wheel, but if all you need
is a spoke, you don't construct an interface to a whole wheel just to
get your spoke.
A wise old owl lived in an oak
The more he saw the less he spoke
The less
2014/10/16 8:14 Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz:
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:30:26PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
I completely understand not reinventing the wheel, but if all you need
is a spoke, you don't construct an interface to a whole wheel just to
get your spoke.
A wise
On 10/15/2014 04:19 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 10/15/2014 07:08 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 15.10.2014 12:09, Brian a écrit :
On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 10:41:12 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
wrote:
Le 15.10.2014 09:11, Jonathan Dowland a écrit :
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at
wande...@fastmail.fm:
I have a similar lack of awareness and/or understanding about all of
the *kit packages / projects / tools / what-have-you, actually; I'm
not positive I even know how many there are, much less all of their
names.
This should help:
Put yourself in the position of
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:34:05AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Thanks to those who've provided scripts and pointers to apt- capabilities.
But... both out of curiosity and practicality - to the Debian developers
out there - are there any tools on the SCM or build servers that run
dependency
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com writes:
On Du, 12 oct 14, 18:47:09, lee wrote:
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com writes:
On Mi, 08 oct 14, 16:01:37, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
The tech-ctte exploration was extremely thorough, entirely transparent
and I
In addition,
On 16/10/14 00:14, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 15.10.2014 12:37, Scott Ferguson a écrit :
On 15/10/14 22:08, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 15.10.2014 12:09, Brian a écrit :
On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 10:41:12 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
wrote:
Le 15.10.2014
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014, lee wrote:
Thank you. And why did they want this?
If the CTTE had chosen a solution which was unacceptable to the majority
of the project, we wanted that majority to be able to override us even
if it wasn't a 2:1 majority.
You can see this discussion in the bug too, and in
systemd's problems would best be discussed at the systemd project. (Modulo
the willingness of the devs over there to discuss them.)
What I'm thinking is to talk about specific features to enable the sort of
managing services that systemd seems to be aimed at, and how to implement
them, where
On 10/15/2014 4:44 PM, Joe wrote:
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:15:24 -0400
Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
It is either OK to delete an email or it is not. You can't have it
both ways.
It is *not* OK to silently delete an already accepted email, it does
indeed break SMTP as a
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 08:53:36AM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
2014/10/16 8:14 Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz:
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:30:26PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
I completely understand not reinventing the wheel, but if all you need
is a spoke, you don't construct an
Chris Bannister wrote:
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:34:05AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Thanks to those who've provided scripts and pointers to apt- capabilities.
But... both out of curiosity and practicality - to the Debian developers
out there - are there any tools on the SCM or build servers
Brian wrote:
On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 15:34:40 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
So where in base system is systemd installed?
This is the list of packages in base (from the source for the jessie
version of debian-installer/build/pkg-lists/base as of yesterday):
[A little snipping]
I'd suggest that
Brian wrote:
On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 15:34:40 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
So where in base system is systemd installed?
This is the list of packages in base (from the source for the jessie
version of debian-installer/build/pkg-lists/base as of yesterday):
[A little snipping]
I'd suggest that
On 10/15/2014 at 05:29 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Mi, 15 oct 14, 18:22:28, Slavko wrote:
Dňa Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:31:02 +0300 Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com napísal:
Using Debian package dependencies this is expressed as Depends:
libpam-systemd by those packages that actually
On 10/13/2014 05:16 PM, David L. Craig wrote:
On 14Oct14:0837+1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
On 14/10/2014 8:32 AM, John Hasler wrote:
Andrei POPESCU writes:
Without an accurate count I'd say only about 1% (or less) of the
subscribers are actually participating in these discussion.
1%
On 10/15/2014 07:54 PM, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
snip
* http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/hostnamed/
* http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/timedated/
* http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/localed/
* http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind/
Any suggestions about
failed to start remount root and kernel file system
Is it due to updating issue? some package like systemd, or util-linux?
Jessie box.
Thanks,
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On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 19:27:20 +0100
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:42:58PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
They were using ConsoleKit, which was orphaned upstream some time
after systemd-logind came along.
I rest my case.
There's nothing at all (not even
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 06:06:00 +0900
Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote:
2014/10/16 5:46 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com:
On 10/15/2014 12:39 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
We've actually been in this place before. Wonderful Linux company
Caldera became SCO (oversimplification, but you know what
Op 2014-10-14T22:16:16 UTC schreef Geert Stappers
stapp...@stappers.nl in het bericht Re: nieuwe laptop, unstable,
network gekkigheid, DHCP-client, ID:
20141014201616.gs16...@gpm.stappers.nl het volgende.
...
Op de router staat OpenWRT met OpenWrt Barrier Breaker r40982 /
LuCI Trunk
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