On Sun, 2022-09-11 at 10:26 +0200, Corentin Bardet wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Le 2022-09-11 07:39, Pankaj Jangid a écrit :
> > For a few work related meetings, I have to use Google Meet. But the
> > screensharing doesn't work in the Chromium installed from stable APT
> > repository. Clicking on the
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 19:09:39 -0400
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Tue 21 Oct 2014 at 15:01:18 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 17:19:08 +0200
Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote:
A blog post explaining why it isn't mandatory, the utter
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:41:21 -0700
Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2014, Steve Litt wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:45:11 -0700
Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote:
After much vitriolic gnashing of teeth from those opposed to
systemd, I wonder... What
article link hasn't posted in several
days. I know that because, no matter what name he uses, his posts are
immediately recognizeable.
So what's the purpose of your putting this link in your email?
SteveT
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be a kludge and it would
start looking a little like sysvinit scripts.
SteveT
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On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:12:17 +0200
Ludovic Meyer ludo.v.me...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 09:34:48PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:45:11 -0700
Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote:
After much vitriolic gnashing of teeth from those opposed
and thus install
uselessd on Jessie?
Thanks,
SteveT
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===
Check out the outstanding progress that fsmithred and dzz are making
with a systemd-free Refracta. I think that similar construction can
greatly benefit Debian:
===
SteveT
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its war against Linux.
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of the difficulties it created for him, personally.
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the kernel still hand off to the
program called /sbin/init during boot, or does it do something else?
Thanks,
SteveT
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One of the first things I do when writing software is figure what the
bottleneck is. If the bottleneck is the user's molassas slow 140 word
per minute typing, I'll use an interpreter every time so I'm not the
guy doing allocation and garbage collection and bounds checking.
SteveT
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to stay.
LOL, they *want* us gone. They're feeling the juice right now, and
haven't yet considered the frequent consequences of my way or the
highway.
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On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:11:46 +0300
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Ma, 21 oct 14, 15:17:58, Steve Litt wrote:
In default new-installed Jessie, does the kernel still hand off to
the program called /sbin/init during boot, or does it do something
else?
Yes it does
why a lot
of us migrated to it. Wheezy *is* a KISS distro.
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Does Debian still have a systemd-must-die metapackage, and does it
still work in Jessie?
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argue with you that it's a DE only if the apps can
all interact. Me, I'd prefer all my apps mind their own business, but
hey, that's just me.
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list is an insult to
our intelligence. You know it, and we know it.
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destruction of the operating system we
currently use.
At this point, the technical issues are a minor thing. The big news is
how humans are going to use those technical issues to replace our
wonderful, almost POSIX OS with a Windows wannabe.
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of a
sudden we just couldn't wait?
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of opinion between us, rather than the your
opinion doesn't count type of thing.
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard, what's your impression of the relative boot
time of nosh vs systemd?
Thanks,
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controlled by my computer.
Quoted For Truth!!!
Steve
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 23:06:53 -0700
Jimmy Johnson field.engin...@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/17/2014 10:12 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 21:59:44 -0700
Jimmy Johnson field.engin...@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/17/2014 08:44 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 10/17/2014 10:22 PM, Jimmy Johnson
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:06:17 +0400
Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi.
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:24:16 -0400
Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 03:00:26 +0200
lee l...@yagibdah.de wrote:
But when it eats files and is 10 years behind, why are people
submitting the bug trivial. *Every*
project should have one of these. Thanks so much for telling me about
this.
SteveT
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for some fairly
arcane enhancements to the basics of Claws-Mail.
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used something simpler (like a fifo
with a very simple data definition) exclusively for notifications (the
official visual and audio hints), but hey, that's just me.
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that's begging to be managed by daemontools
instead of the unfathomable shellscripts it's now managed by. I spoze
one could also make a point for managing it with systemd, but I can't
afford the price of that ticket.
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. First, IMHO startx is better than booting
directly to GUI. Secondly, now that stopping X gets you to the command
prompt, you can type whatever shutdown/reboot/poweroff command you
want. Unless those were messed up too.
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, but
are you all sure that the delay *does* happen during the shutdown of
Samba? If it turns out not to be Samba, you've just needlessly chased
your tail for hours or days.
Personally, I'd find out where all the time is going before
troubleshooting Samba or any other package.
SteveT
Steve Litt
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:38:12 -0400
Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 10/17/2014 12:21 PM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 07:54:06 -0700 (PDT)
Rusi Mody rustompm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, October 17, 2014 8:00:02 PM UTC+5:30, Rob Owens
rename
the executables), and it works.
Bang, another 0d program!
SteveT
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it was the right thing to do.
Thank you Ian, win or lose. You do good work!
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now on, when people laugh at my ugly, no-dependency, home grown
solutions as kludges, I'll have exactly two words to say to them:
*Thank you*.
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of this case clearly overrides the
need to hit deadlines
I agree.
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yourself that.
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 22:44:41 +0200 (CEST)
Pierre Frenkiel pierre.frenk...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014, Steve Litt wrote:
are you all sure that the delay *does* happen during the shutdown of
Samba? If it turns out not to be Samba, you've just needlessly
chased your tail for hours
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 23:51:34 +0300
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
I meant
/etc/init.d/nmbd
/etc/init.d/smbd
Kind regards,
Andrei
LOL, same here (in my advice on troubleshooting to Pierre)_.
SteveT
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, I recently had the exact same problem with
daemontools!
SteveT
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titles.
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Hat via competition of a superior OS. If it's
B, we won't even let out a wimper if, in 2018, they finally declare
systemd as the one true init.
I just don't want to do anything that jeopardizes the chances of the GR
voting for choice.
SteveT
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and take this entangled junk.
SteveT
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, Doug. Even if it were nothing more than your
first two points, it would be a travesty.
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all the way back to
wpa-supplicant to get rid of the need for those daemons?
Thanks,
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On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 08:10:47 +0200
Ansgar Burchardt ans...@debian.org wrote:
Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com writes:
OK, I'll be the first to admit that after Red Hat caused the demise
of ConsoleKit (and probably lots more important software), I am
free to take significant time out
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 07:33:38 +0100
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 01:12:51AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
OK, I'll be the first to admit that after Red Hat caused the demise
of ConsoleKit (and probably lots more important software), I am
free to take
a systemd-free or systemd-neutered Debian
might be mainly a documentation problem, and I'm pretty good at
documentation. Who wants to join me? It's your chance to make Red-Hat
*really* hate you. And make a lot of Debian users and other Linux
people love you.
SteveT
Steve Litt
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 11:28:50 -0400
Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
POINT OF CLARIFICATION:
Nothing written below is nosh specific. It could be used with nosh, or
upstart, or sysvinit, or any other PID1 that's *only* a PID1. So how
about it, who wants to join me in neutering systemd
to cat then datesort all
daemontools lots to see who's hogging the shutdown time.
This is more than a diagnostic test. Because daemontools is so good at
what it does, I'd just leave your services governed by daemontools,
even after you solve the problem.
HTH,
SteveT
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somebody do me a favor and, on an installed (not upgraded)
Jessie do aptitude show gnumeric to see if it depends on any systemd
stuff?
I'm also starting to list functionalities provided by the welded on
systemd tools so that I can provide them in an elemental way.
Thanks,
SteveT
Steve Litt
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:02:03 +0300
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Ma, 14 oct 14, 17:56:58, Steve Litt wrote:
Because you don't want to inextricably drag a giant monolith into
your Desktop Environment just to do a few things.
If you compare systemd with a Desktop
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:11:10 +0100
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:51:07AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
Check out what single company has 30% of the gatekeepers. Surprise,
surprise.
Damned for their success. We want Linux to be successful, but woe
betide
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 09:08:26 +0100
Martin Read zen75...@zen.co.uk wrote:
On 14/10/14 22:56, Steve Litt wrote:
And how were they handling this task before systemd?
They were using ConsoleKit, which was orphaned upstream some time
after systemd-logind came along.
I rest my case.
SteveT
of the innuendo :-)
SteveT
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On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 19:27:20 +0100
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:42:58PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
They were using ConsoleKit, which was orphaned upstream some time
after systemd-logind came along.
I rest my case.
There's nothing at all (not even
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 06:06:00 +0900
Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote:
2014/10/16 5:46 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com:
On 10/15/2014 12:39 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
We've actually been in this place before. Wonderful Linux company
Caldera became SCO (oversimplification, but you know what
with a Red Hat owned and
controlled Linux, and is tired of hearing from those of us who do.
The solution is trivial. If, as everyone claims, we're such a minority,
he could filter us all out and never see our posts again. Problem
solved.
SteveT
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Hat special sauce, has also moved
from paranoid conspiracy theory to yeah, it might happen.
I think I said it a couple weeks ago: This systemd thing was once
merely a technical disagreement, but it's transformed into a matter of
trust.
SteveT
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actually looked into what depends on systemd?
PAM is enough for me, considering everything that uses PAM. They could
have made their PAM plug compatible with the old PAM, but nooo.
Because interchangability is not only not their goal, it gets in the
way of their goal.
SteveT
Steve Litt
a
financial stake in which way the thing goes, they have a huge incentive
to vote in a way detrimental to the community or other entity. This is
why bribery is a crime.
SteveT
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On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 15:51:09 +0100
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 10:40:59AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
The solution is trivial. If, as everyone claims, we're such a
minority, he could filter us all out and never see our posts again.
Problem solved.
Sadly
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:37:30 +0100
Martin Read zen75...@zen.co.uk wrote:
On 14/10/14 15:56, Steve Litt wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 11:25:23 +0300
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
Have you actually looked into what depends on systemd?
PAM is enough for me, considering
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:35:34 +0100
Martin Read zen75...@zen.co.uk wrote:
On 14/10/14 16:48, Steve Litt wrote:
So are you saying I could use sysvinit or nosh as my PID1, drop in
libpam-systemd and no other systemd components, and have all PAM
functionalities run properly?
Thank you
without you.
*NO*
Agreed. Andrei's OK.
I know this impending systemd thing is bringing out the worst in me,
and I think it's bringing out the worst in a lot of us.
SteveT
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management books you'd recommend, especially in light of the
fact that a lot of us want to change the PID1 software one way or
another?
I have a feeling such a book might make *me* more useful.
Thanks,
SteveT
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On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 00:15:40 +0300
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Ma, 14 oct 14, 16:31:04, Steve Litt wrote:
Of course, then there's the matters of upstreams requiring
systemd...
As far as I understand none of the upstreams are actually requiring
systemd itself
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:35:54 -0400
Marty mar...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/whos-writing-linux
Say hello to our new bosses?
Check out what single company has 30% of the gatekeepers. Surprise,
surprise.
SteveT
Steve Litt* http
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:18:57 +0100
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 02:48:55PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 19:02:08 +0100 Martin Read zen75...@zen.co.uk
wrote:
On 12/10/14 18:13, John Hasler wrote:
You have no problem with an 1800 line
testing.
The GR train passed…
So what do you suggest instead?
SteveT
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guys,
let's not rush to judgement here. No matter how things turn out, I'll
always respect the stance you took, and how long you maintained that
stance in spite of people opposing you.
SteveT
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, PLEASE read the preceding paragraph. Ansgar
made my anti-systemd argument perfectly.
SteveT
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and better).
Oh shit.
If I were going to give up free software and go proprietary, I'd go
Mac. Unfortunately, at this point I'm actually considering Mac as my
final backstop.
SteveT
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:02:16 -0400
Carl Fink c...@finknetwork.com wrote:
Slackware springs to mind.
Before this, I would have said that slackware sucks. From what I
understand, they're proud that their package manager doesn't support
dependencies. Sy wht?
SteveT
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of -offtopic.
:s/off-topic/stuff that Andrei deems off-topic/
SteveT
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/if that happens, we should see the hard dependencies between
systemd and other stuff that has been absorbed by systemd disappear.
The real problem is that Poettering and others over there have rather
indicated an unwillingness to do that.
Three words: Follow the money.
SteveT
Steve Litt
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 03:05:59 +0200
lee l...@yagibdah.de wrote:
Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com writes:
pingaddr=8.8.8.8
pingaddr=192.168.100.96
Why is this is defined multiple times?
Mistake!
The 8.8.8.8 isn't needed. That's a test of Internet connectivity, when
what I wanted
as a sure fire field separator. The C
program could also take an option as to whether or not should find
hidden files, and it could prepend ./ onto all relative paths not
already beginning with ./. I might do that tonight.
Thanks for this great info. I wish I'd had it a decade ago.
SteveT
Steve
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 19:06:11 +0900
Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote:
Hmm. Let's comment that for people newer to scripting than I am.
On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 6:28 AM, Steve Litt
sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
### RUN THE DAEMON ###
exec envuidgid slitt envdir ./env
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:33:48 +0300
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sb, 11 oct 14, 17:41:28, Steve Litt wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 22:28:31 +0300
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
Really? How do you write an initscript that restarts your daemon
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 17:07:01 +0300
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sb, 11 oct 14, 21:40:49, Steve Litt wrote:
From my viewpoint, shellscripts were never intended to be big, huge
programs. To me, they just glue together commands, and have a few
rudimentary branching
replace all of that with
a struct pointer.
But then again, as a user, his implementation is none of my business,
whereas his overall architecture is *certainly* my business, especially
if it constrains my abilities to maintain/modify my system.
SteveT
Steve Litt* http
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 11:16:54 -0700
Don Armstrong d...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014, Steve Litt wrote:
This essay practically screams out for somebody to write a C program
that takes an argument of an arbitrary string, finds all files in a
directory, and returns a long string
up, ssh in, and run uppp.sh
To shut down, you ssh in, run downnn.sh.
If you sometimes need to reboot instead of powering off, you could
remove the shutdown from downnn.sh and just do it manually while you're
ssh'ed in.
HTH,
SteveT
Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com
kernel, which is notoriously
monolithic[1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanenbaum%E2%80%93Torvalds_debate
This is very true, but the kernel knows its boundaries, and doesn't try
to conquor all sorts of other, non-related, subsystems.
SteveT
Steve Litt* http
if the change will turn out to be bad it will *not*
destroy GNU/Linux, but help it evolve in better ways.
Not if Red Hat has their way, and it appears they're on their way
to getting their way.
SteveT
Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training * Human
use every day.
SteveT
Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 21:21:14 +0300
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sb, 11 oct 14, 13:40:08, Steve Litt wrote:
sysvinit is an idea whose time has gone. sysvinit is a poor way to
showcase the Unix Way. First of all, the whole idea of runlevels is
bizarre, and adds a lot
, wouldn't I just
CLI log into different users on Ctrl+Alt+F2 and Ctrl+Alt+F3, and run
startx from each?
SteveT
Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/
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modifications to the script.
Does imapfilter run in the foreground, or does it have an option to run
in the foreground?
SteveT
Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/
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a lot more circumstances than any Linux
implementation currently ignores it.
SteveT
Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance
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Poettering says in this 9:31 interview.
Everybody should view this video!
SteveT
Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 19:05:19 -0400
Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote:
On 10/11/2014 05:28 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 21:21:14 +0300
Daemontools runscripts are incredibly simple shellscripts, that I'm
sure you could write no sweat except in very wierd edge cases.
Here's
to remember to go out to two
dozen forums to find your conversations.
2) You don't need to log in to post a reply.
I'm on several forums. But invariably, as time goes on, I forget their
existence. The day's just too busy to walk around the web visiting
groups.
SteveT
Steve Litt
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 17:58:04 +0300
softwatt softw...@gmx.com wrote:
On 10/10/2014 05:41 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
You missed the biggest 2 advantages of mailing lists:
You missed my point entirely.
Those two advantages are reserved in my proposal.
OK then...
As long as it continues acting
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:01:15 +0300
softwatt softw...@gmx.com wrote:
On 10/10/2014 05:58 PM, softwatt wrote:
On 10/10/2014 05:41 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
You missed the biggest 2 advantages of mailing lists:
You missed my point entirely.
Those two advantages are reserved in my proposal
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