A lot of what you're saying is right, and is great advice to the
community. But in the time it took you to write that 5000+ word email
you probably could have written the patch and submitted it.
You must be the change you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
If you'd love to see
On Wednesday 15 October 2008, you wrote:
Hal Vaughan wrote:
Both of your comments involve disagreements over differences of
opinion -- but I can see where you're coming from and I think the
point about rewording the warnings in menu.lst would go a long way
toward addressing the issue that
On Thursday 16 October 2008, you wrote:
A lot of what you're saying is right, and is great advice to the
community. But in the time it took you to write that 5000+ word
email you probably could have written the patch and submitted it.
1) I'm a writer by avocation. Honestly, it's much easier
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008, Hal Vaughan wrote:
1) I'm a writer by avocation. Honestly, it's much easier for me to
write a 5,000 word email than a 500 word one. I'll refer you to
Churchill's quotation about how long it would take him to write a long
speech vs. a short one.
Have that added to
On Thursday 16 October 2008, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008, Hal Vaughan wrote:
1) I'm a writer by avocation. Honestly, it's much easier for me to
write a 5,000 word email than a 500 word one. I'll refer you to
Churchill's quotation about how long it would take him
Apologies for any confusion. While making changes to my LAN, I had
some downed systems and used a friend's laptop while he was here. I
should have either waited or sent it later.
Hal
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL
On Wednesday 15 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
Denvid Wright escreveu:
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
WARNING: YOU HAVE A LOCKED AND LOADED ASSAULT RIFLE POINTED AT
YOUR FEET AND YOUR FINGER IS ON THE TRIGGER.
Interesting analogy, but it doesn't
Am 2008-10-12 17:44:08, schrieb Hal Vaughan:
If I read every man page in detail on every
program or conf file I use, I'd still be reading. I'd have never
gotten anywhere. You know that as well as I. Have you read the full
details in each man page you use? Have you ever had to just
Hal Vaughan wrote:
Both of your comments involve disagreements over differences of
opinion -- but I can see where you're coming from and I think the point
about rewording the warnings in menu.lst would go a long way toward
addressing the issue that led me to file the bug report.
If filing
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Michelle Konzack wrote:
Am 2008-10-12 17:44:08, schrieb Hal Vaughan:
If I read every man page in detail on every
program or conf file I use, I'd still be reading. I'd have never
gotten anywhere. You know that as well as I. Have you read the
full details in
Denvid Wright escreveu:
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
WARNING: YOU HAVE A LOCKED AND LOADED ASSAULT RIFLE POINTED AT
YOUR FEET AND YOUR FINGER IS ON THE TRIGGER.
Interesting analogy, but it doesn't work, for several reasons. First,
it's quite
On Monday 13 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
Hal Vaughan wrote:
But does it address the original issue? The original report is
that menu.lst is overwritten without notice.
A fact that is noted in that file, by the way.
In the top, there are pointers to documentation on what
Hal Vaughan escreveu:
I don't mean this with any offense, but you're so wrapped up in the
details you're not seeing what's going on. You're re-arranging the
deck chairs on the Titanic.
I may be, after all this thread has been going on very long. So I kindly
ask you to summarize what did you
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
Hal Vaughan escreveu:
I don't mean this with any offense, but you're so wrapped up in the
details you're not seeing what's going on. You're re-arranging the
deck chairs on the Titanic.
I may be, after all this thread has been going
Hal Vaughan escreveu:
It was two years ago. I don't remember all the details, but basically I
did something like aptitude update aptitude upgrade, got a new
kernel image, and a clobbered menu.lst and it took me hours before I
got the server up and running. The system worked fine until I
On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 15:08 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[snip]
As a user, you run apt and get notified that important files
may be changed.
[snip]
Sorry, but you've said this several times in this thread, and it's just
wrong. Apt/dpkg/whathaveyou do *not* notify the user whenever they are
going
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 17:36:25 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
On Monday 13 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
[...]
I only wanted to point out that there is a direct logical line from
the replies to your bug report to the relevant documentation.
Therefore I think that your complaints about
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
Hal Vaughan escreveu:
It was two years ago. I don't remember all the details, but
basically I did something like aptitude update aptitude
upgrade, got a new kernel image, and a clobbered menu.lst and it
took me hours before I got
On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:04:07 -0300
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe this is not the nicer way things could work, but given the constrains
in which Debian operates, the mailing lists are where we have more attention
and human resources to help
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hal Vaughan wrote:
But does it address the original issue? The original report is that
menu.lst is overwritten without notice.
A fact that is noted in that file, by the way.
In the top, there are pointers to
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 03:08:17PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
For instance, stating it in the file: Again, not everyone has time to
read all the comments in all the files. As to unrealistic
expectations, what would be so hard with using a bash script specifying
the rewrite was going to
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 03:08:17PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
For instance, stating it in the file: Again, not everyone has time
to read all the comments in all the files. As to unrealistic
expectations, what would be so hard with using a
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 17:44:08 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 13:56:57 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
With that in mind, notice that nothing said in those posts is at
all helpful.
[ snip: quotes from the bug report
On Mon, 13 Oct 2008, Chris Bannister wrote:
You have raised some interesting points. If you consider the BTS as a
help desk, then I think you will be sorely disappointed.
It seems that to file a bug report the submitter first has to research
the problem, try and resolve it, and if possible,
On Monday 13 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 17:44:08 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 13:56:57 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
With that in mind, notice that nothing said in those posts is
Hal Vaughan wrote:
But does it address the original issue? The original report is that
menu.lst is overwritten without notice.
A fact that is noted in that file, by the way.
In the top, there are pointers to documentation on what interacts with
the file:
# menu.lst - See: grub(8), info
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Steve Kemp wrote:
...
Anyway I think I've clarified my previous mail sufficiently, so
I'll happily stop now. I think we've probably both made our points
sufficiently. The next thing to do is to either consider ways to
help raise awareness of expectations on
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:23:01PM -0400, Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
heard to say:
His (Christian's) comments were This has nothing to do with aptitude.
Then he goes on to talk about update-grub and that I asked for it. No.
I didn't ask for it. I remember that situation enough to
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote:
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:23:01PM -0400, Hal Vaughan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say:
His (Christian's) comments were This has nothing to do with
aptitude. Then he goes on to talk about update-grub and that I
asked for it. No. I didn't
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 01:56:57PM -0400, Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
heard to say:
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote:
Regardless, I don't see his mail as being at all impolite; just
a little terse.
I'll ask you to read in this context: 1) You know very little about
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 13:56:57 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
I'll ask you to read in this context: 1) You know very little about how
packages in Debian are maintained, 2) You know nothing about the
internals of apt, 3) You do not know Christian at all, have no idea
what he is like,
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote:
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 01:56:57PM -0400, Hal Vaughan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say:
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote:
Regardless, I don't see his mail as being at all impolite; just
a little terse.
I'll ask you
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 13:56:57 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
I'll ask you to read in this context: 1) You know very little about
how packages in Debian are maintained, 2) You know nothing about
the internals of apt, 3) You do not know
Hal Vaughan wrote:
My original point is that I don't file bug reports with
FOSS because I've had some indifferent and even hostile replies. As
I've said, there are reasons that I usually file bug reports under a
legal alias and why I used to be on mailing lists using the same aka.
It's
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
Hal Vaughan wrote:
My original point is that I don't file bug reports with
FOSS because I've had some indifferent and even hostile replies.
As I've said, there are reasons that I usually file bug reports
under a legal alias and why I
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 06:25:23PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
Hal Vaughan wrote:
My original point is that I don't file bug reports with
FOSS because I've had some indifferent and even hostile replies.
As I've said, there are
On 10/10/08 22:21, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[snip]
Don't get me wrong, I love open source. I've contributed to several
projects with code, including doing a couple of my own projects. For
instance, I learned C++ just so I could write the code for LinuxICE
that controlled some HD radios through
Hal Vaughan wrote:
But I've learned, the hard way, NEVER file a bug report in a FOSS
project. I have several times and have yet to find one where the
developers were appreciative of the bug report. I'll go even farther:
In most cases they've been outright hostile and I've had times
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 03:32:23, Ron Johnson wrote:
I've *never* had a DD get hostile with me. Ignored? Yes. But not
hostile.
Me neither, not even when I screwed up big time (#499594).
The response of Julien Cristau was exemplary, even though I wasted his
time (during the freeze!) with my
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:52:09 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 03:32:23, Ron Johnson wrote:
I've *never* had a DD get hostile with me. Ignored? Yes. But not
hostile.
Me neither, not even when I screwed up big time (#499594).
The response of Julien Cristau was
Osamu Aoki wrote:
Hi,
Short answer is hal is accepted now for lenny d-i
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 01:05:09AM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
Osamu Aoki wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 04:01:59PM +0800, paragasu wrote:
maybethe debian installer do not permit you to use the username hal.
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:52:09 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 03:32:23, Ron Johnson wrote:
I've *never* had a DD get hostile with me. Ignored? Yes. But
not hostile.
Me neither, not even when I screwed up big time
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Michael Biebl wrote:
Hal Vaughan wrote:
But I've learned, the hard way, NEVER file a bug report in a FOSS
project. I have several times and have yet to find one where the
developers were appreciative of the bug report. I'll go even
farther: In most cases
On Sat, 2008-10-11 at 10:20 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:52:09 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 03:32:23, Ron Johnson wrote:
I've *never* had a DD get hostile with me. Ignored? Yes. But
not
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 10:20:57, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
I still maintain that the issue had more to do with the issue than the
response said, however in that case, but I felt the responder was more
interested in writing it off than in dealing with the issue or helping
me figure out where
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Andrei Popescu wrote:
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 10:20:57, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
I still maintain that the issue had more to do with the issue than
the response said, however in that case, but I felt the responder
was more interested in writing it off than in
2008/10/10 Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Friday 10 October 2008, Michael Biebl wrote:
Please file a bug against the debian-installer package.
But I've learned, the hard way, NEVER file a bug report in a FOSS
project.
You must be doing it wrong. I routinely file bugs against Debian
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 12:23:01, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
I agree, the DD's response was not his best contribution ever (I wonder
why he was answering on aptitude bugs at all since he is not the
maintainer). But is it fair to judge developers by one of them[1]
(possibly having a bad day)?
[1]
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Andrei Popescu wrote:
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 12:23:01, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
I agree, the DD's response was not his best contribution ever (I
wonder why he was answering on aptitude bugs at all since he is not
the maintainer). But is it fair to judge developers by
On Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 19:47:40 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
Still, I do have to take bug reports and I have to smile sweetly as I
do because those reports come from clients who are paying me enough per
month that I have to keep them a bit more than happy. If someone can't
handle bug
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Steve Kemp wrote:
On Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 19:47:40 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
Still, I do have to take bug reports and I have to smile sweetly as
I do because those reports come from clients who are paying me
enough per month that I have to keep them a bit more
On Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 20:12:26 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
Reported a number of bugs over time. Found the rule was not getting
useful responses, more often negative, or in some cases, hostile
responses, as opposed to positive or even neutral ones.
My apologies for simplifying too much.
Hal Vaughan wrote:
But I've learned, the hard way, NEVER file a bug report in a FOSS
project. I have several times and have yet to find one where the
developers were appreciative of the bug report. I'll go even farther:
In most cases they've been outright hostile and I've had times
Data point: I reported a bug in the joe editor just over two years ago.
Joseph H. Allen even listed a patch to fix the bug in response to the
report.
The bug remains unfixed.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=386883
And yes, I haven't reported many bugs since. It is in fact
Carl Fink wrote:
Data point: I reported a bug in the joe editor just over two years ago.
Joseph H. Allen even listed a patch to fix the bug in response to the
report.
The bug remains unfixed.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=386883
And yes, I haven't reported many bugs
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:46:39 -0400
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Data point: I reported a bug in the joe editor just over two years ago.
Joseph H. Allen even listed a patch to fix the bug in response to the
report.
The bug remains unfixed.
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 01:07:41AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:46:39 -0400
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Data point: I reported a bug in the joe editor just over two years ago.
Joseph H. Allen even listed a patch to fix the bug in response to the
report.
The
2008/10/10 Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I'm setting up a new Etch system and just got to the point where it asks
me for a username. All my life I've used my first name, Hal, as a
username (although in all lower case).
Etch won't let me do this. I did it in Sarge, did it in earlier
On Fri,10.Oct.08, 01:50:56, Hal Vaughan wrote:
I'm setting up a new Etch system and just got to the point where it asks
me for a username. All my life I've used my first name, Hal, as a
username (although in all lower case).
Etch won't let me do this. I did it in Sarge, did it in earlier
On Friday 10 October 2008, Andrei Popescu wrote:
On Fri,10.Oct.08, 01:50:56, Hal Vaughan wrote:
I'm setting up a new Etch system and just got to the point where it
asks me for a username. All my life I've used my first name, Hal,
as a username (although in all lower case).
Etch won't
Hal Vaughan wrote:
I'm setting up a new Etch system and just got to the point where it asks
me for a username. All my life I've used my first name, Hal, as a
username (although in all lower case).
Etch won't let me do this. I did it in Sarge, did it in earlier
versions, did it in
maybethe debian installer do not permit you to use the username hal.
Create any user. after the installer finish.. you can login and create
user 'Hal' with
adduser.. ;)
On 10/10/08, Juha Tuuna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hal Vaughan wrote:
I'm setting up a new Etch system and just got to the point
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 04:01:59PM +0800, paragasu wrote:
maybethe debian installer do not permit you to use the username hal.
Create any user. after the installer finish.. you can login and create
user 'Hal' with
adduser.. ;)
hal package have changed ...
hal (0.5.7.1-1) unstable;
Osamu Aoki wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 04:01:59PM +0800, paragasu wrote:
maybethe debian installer do not permit you to use the username hal.
Create any user. after the installer finish.. you can login and create
user 'Hal' with
adduser.. ;)
hal package have changed ...
hal
On 10/10/08 00:50, Hal Vaughan wrote:
I'm setting up a new Etch system and just got to the point where it asks
me for a username. All my life I've used my first name, Hal, as a
username (although in all lower case).
Etch won't let me do this. I did it in Sarge, did it in earlier
versions,
Hi,
Short answer is hal is accepted now for lenny d-i
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 01:05:09AM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
Osamu Aoki wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 04:01:59PM +0800, paragasu wrote:
maybethe debian installer do not permit you to use the username hal.
Create any user.
On Friday 10 October 2008, paragasu wrote:
maybethe debian installer do not permit you to use the username hal.
Create any user. after the installer finish.. you can login and
create user 'Hal' with
adduser.. ;)
I can verify this. It took me a while because I'm new to working with
some
On Friday 10 October 2008, Michael Biebl wrote:
Osamu Aoki wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 04:01:59PM +0800, paragasu wrote:
maybethe debian installer do not permit you to use the username
hal. Create any user. after the installer finish.. you can login
and create user 'Hal' with
I'm setting up a new Etch system and just got to the point where it asks
me for a username. All my life I've used my first name, Hal, as a
username (although in all lower case).
Etch won't let me do this. I did it in Sarge, did it in earlier
versions, did it in Mandrake, Redhat, and also use
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