Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 04:07:01PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: If it works, it shouldn't need fixing, or replacing. And yet, this entire subthread was premised on an upgrade! If you want to keep running old hardware then do so. Why on earth would it upset you that someone else isn't? It's ve

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-30 14:10 (UTC-0500): > On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 01:35:19PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > Wasting power running obsolete equipment is a personal hobby, not an > environmental benefit. If you're really concerned about generating new > waste, then repurpose someone e

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 01:35:19PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-30 08:56 (UTC-0500): On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 10:58:38PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just because something else came along that

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Mi, 30 dec 20, 13:35:19, Felix Miata wrote: > > Again you stripped context. Managing media is a component of most backup > systems. > Labeling is an integral component of such management, as is storage of the > media. > I've yet to see a USB stick storage system that accommodates either label

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-30 08:56 (UTC-0500): > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 10:58:38PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >>So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just >>because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well >>suited >>to task?

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 10:58:38PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well suited to task? Basically, yes. If I'm provisioning a new system, it seems stupid

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 10:58:38PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: [...] > So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just > because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well > suited > to task? "Ending is better than mending" -- Aldous Huxley

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 12/29/20 10:58 PM, Felix Miata wrote: Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-29 22:37 (UTC-0500): On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 21:42:11 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: Boards with 2 M.2 NVME and 6 SATA aren't at all uncommon, but finding one with those and dual eSATA and Firewire and USB-C and Triple Ch

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-29 22:37 (UTC-0500): > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 21:42:11 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >>Boards with 2 M.2 NVME and 6 SATA aren't at all uncommon, but finding one with >>those and dual eSATA and Firewire and USB-C and Triple Channel and PS/2 and >>S/PDIF >>and dual P

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 09:42:11PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-29 17:30 (UTC-0500): On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 04:52:48PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: Matching that level of versatility with *modern* ports on a modern motherboard, especially without access to a har

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-29 13:17 (UTC-0500): > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 12:34:49PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >>I agree. I can't imagine how it could not. Still, after 8 years, I'd open the >>PS >>up for cleaning if nothing else, unless it's been operating in a clean room >>all >>those

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-29 17:30 (UTC-0500): > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 04:52:48PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: >>Matching that level of versatility with *modern* ports on a modern >>motherboard, especially without access to a hardware-review site of the >>caliber I was drawing on at the t

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 04:52:48PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: Matching that level of versatility with *modern* ports on a modern motherboard, especially without access to a hardware-review site of the caliber I was drawing on at the time, is going to be difficult. Not really: fast USB & nvme ar

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 16:48, Anssi Saari wrote: > The Wanderer writes: > >> Unless someone else in the household happens to have Win10 install >> media sitting around, which given that the number of tech-savvy >> people in the household who run Windows is a grand total of 1 is >> not terribly likely.

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 16:46, Felix Miata wrote: > The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-29 13:13 (UTC-0500): > >> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813131665 > > The chipset on that board was released in 2008: > > > >

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer writes: > Unless someone else in the household happens to have Win10 install media > sitting around, which given that the number of tech-savvy people in the > household who run Windows is a grand total of 1 is not terribly likely. Microsoft does make their installation media freely

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-29 13:13 (UTC-0500): > https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813131665 The chipset on that board was released in 2008: That's a hard to beat board for its day, every port one coul

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 15:34, Georgi Naplatanov wrote: > On 12/29/20 10:09 PM, The Wanderer wrote: > >> On 2020-12-29 at 14:53, Romualdas Taluntis wrote: >> >> Last I was aware, AMD and Intel alike have Good Enough driver >> support on Linux via fully-open code, and I want to encourage that >> rather

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 12/29/20 10:09 PM, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2020-12-29 at 14:53, Romualdas Taluntis wrote: > > Last I was aware, AMD and Intel alike have Good Enough driver support on > Linux via fully-open code, and I want to encourage that rather than > NVIDIA's closed approach. > Be careful with AMD/ATI v

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 02:26:27PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: On 2020-12-29 at 14:20, Romualdas Taluntis wrote: You have an old system with first gen i7 which predates widespread UEFI adoption by at least 1 generation, your motherboard specs at https://origin-www.asus.com/Motherboards/SABERTOOT

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 14:53, Romualdas Taluntis wrote: > I have no official sources on this, but if you'd do an internet > search for "new gpu legacy bios" you'd see a lot of people having the > same issue, asking for guidance on buying a new GPU for an old PC, or > wondering why they weren't better wa

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

I have no official sources on this, but if you'd do an internet search for "new gpu legacy bios" you'd see a lot of people having the same issue, asking for guidance on buying a new GPU for an old PC, or wondering why they weren't better warned about such an incompatibility. I personally also h

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 14:20, Romualdas Taluntis wrote: > You have an old system with first gen i7 which predates widespread > UEFI adoption by at least 1 generation, your motherboard specs at > https://origin-www.asus.com/Motherboards/SABERTOOTH_X58/specifications/ > do not mention UEFI, only regular B

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

You have an old system with first gen i7 which predates widespread UEFI adoption by at least 1 generation, your motherboard specs at https://origin-www.asus.com/Motherboards/SABERTOOTH_X58/specifications/ do not mention UEFI, only regular BIOS, so your system has no UEFI support. Newer AMD GPUs

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 12:34:49PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: I agree. I can't imagine how it could not. Still, after 8 years, I'd open the PS up for cleaning if nothing else, unless it's been operating in a clean room all those years. FWIW, I wouldn't do that and consider it to be a bit nuts. :

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 13:05, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Ma, 29 dec 20, 06:52:12, The Wanderer wrote: > >> That would indicate that this will have been using the ISOLINUX >> boot path, because as previously noted, this motherboard has a >> BIOS; if my memory is correct it predates UEFI entirely, > > A

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Ma, 29 dec 20, 06:52:12, The Wanderer wrote: > > That would indicate that this will have been using the ISOLINUX boot > path, because as previously noted, this motherboard has a BIOS; if my > memory is correct it predates UEFI entirely, According to Wikipedia in 2011 major vendors launched sev

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-29 12:18 (UTC-0500): > ...I'd be less concerned about booting to removable media with > *all* of the drives disconnected, and that might achieve the same end. I agree. I can't imagine how it could not. Still, after 8 years, I'd open the PS up for cleaning if nothi

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 12:08, Felix Miata wrote: > The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-29 07:57 (UTC-0500): > >> Romualdas Taluntis wrote: > >>> -try booting with your 5700 in a secondary PCI-E slot and your >>> old GPU in the main slot, check if Debian detects both video >>> cards, force certain applica

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-29 07:57 (UTC-0500): > Romualdas Taluntis wrote: >> -try booting with your 5700 in a secondary PCI-E slot and your old >> GPU in the main slot, check if Debian detects both video cards, force >> certain applications to use new video card and use it like this if >>

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 07:27, Romualdas Taluntis wrote: > If your motherboard is legacy BIOS only (non-UEFI) then that's almost > certainly the problem and messing with GRUB won't help. There are a > couple of easy ways to go about it: > > -Return your card, Not on my list; I'd sooner build a new sy

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

If your motherboard is legacy BIOS only (non-UEFI) then that's almost certainly the problem and messing with GRUB won't help. There are a couple of easy ways to go about it: -Return your card, -Upgrade your whole system; and a couple of not very easy and not guaranteed to work: -try booting

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-28 at 20:38, Linux-Fan wrote: > The Wanderer writes: > >> On 2020-12-28 at 16:59, Felix Miata wrote: >> > 7-RMA the 5700. >> >> I'd be extremely hesitant to do that unless I know it's the problem. >> Also, although I just unboxed this within the past week, I ordered it >> more than a

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 05:11, Anssi Saari wrote: > The Wanderer writes: >>> 7-RMA the 5700. >> >> I'd be extremely hesitant to do that unless I know it's the >> problem. Also, although I just unboxed this within the past week, I >> ordered it more than a month ago; it's entirely possible they might >

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-29 at 06:04, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > The Wanderer wrote: >> > https://www.debian.org/CD/live/) [ISOLINUX or GRUB ?] > > Anssi Saari wrote: >> I can't tell without booting that, there are both grub and isolinux >> directories on that image (debian-live-10.7.0-amd64-standard.iso

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

Hi, The Wanderer wrote: > > https://www.debian.org/CD/live/) [ISOLINUX or GRUB ?] Anssi Saari wrote: > I can't tell without booting that, there are both grub and isolinux > directories on that image (debian-live-10.7.0-amd64-standard.iso that > is.) The ISOLINUX equipment is for legacy BIOS or E

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer writes: > I'm fairly sure the live environment I used (the amd64 image from > https://www.debian.org/CD/live/) does likewise. I do have some other > bootable media (of extremely primitive nature, graphics-wise) which I > know for a fact uses ISOLINUX or similar, and I could try one o

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer writes: On 2020-12-28 at 16:59, Felix Miata wrote: [...] > 7-RMA the 5700. I'd be extremely hesitant to do that unless I know it's the problem. Also, although I just unboxed this within the past week, I ordered it more than a month ago; it's entirely possible they might not acc

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-28 18:31 (UTC-0500): > Felix Miata wrote: >> IME, the problem with electrolytics was solved a decade or more ago >> by switching motherboards to polys. The PS makers didn't and still >> haven't done that AFAICT. GPU needing both 6 wire and 8 wire >> dedicated powe

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-28 at 18:26, Felix Miata wrote: > The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-28 17:26 (UTC-0500): > >> Not that I've been able to detect. I obviously can't inspect the >> inside of the PSU without in-depth surgery, but I did give the >> capacitors etc. on the motherboard a once-over during the l

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-28 17:26 (UTC-0500): > Not that I've been able to detect. I obviously can't inspect the inside > of the PSU without in-depth surgery, but I did give the capacitors etc. > on the motherboard a once-over during the last swap-out, and didn't > notice anything apparent

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-28 at 16:59, Felix Miata wrote: > 4-subscribe to one or both Grub mailing lists to ask for help. The problem occurs with the live-boot environment, which AFAICT is using something other than GRUB to boot. Unless I'm mistaken about that boot method, I'm now reasonably certain that this

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-28 16:13 (UTC-0500): ... 4-subscribe to one or both Grub mailing lists to ask for help. 5-Turn on UEFI if it's off, turn off if it's on, if you have a spare disk for making the switch, or your live media supports both. Grub's job is considerably different between t

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-28 at 07:55, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2020-12-28 at 07:47, Anssi Saari wrote: > >> One thing came to my mind, do you have the appropriate aux power >> connectors available and connected? Looks like the RX 5700 XT is >> quite power hungry at 225 W max vs. 151 W with your old card. >>

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-28 at 07:47, Anssi Saari wrote: > One thing came to my mind, do you have the appropriate aux power > connectors available and connected? Looks like the RX 5700 XT is > quite power hungry at 225 W max vs. 151 W with your old card. > Different connectors too (6 pin + 8 pin instead of 2x

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer writes: > On 2020-12-27 at 16:36, Anssi Saari wrote: > >> The Wanderer writes: >> >>> I need to get that live-boot medium ready and do those tests. >> >> That seems like a good thing to do. > > I have it ready now, but haven't shut down for another swap, in part > because I've bee

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Du, 27 dec 20, 07:08:28, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2020-12-27 at 02:31, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > On Sb, 26 dec 20, 17:19:32, The Wanderer wrote: > > > >> With the new GPU in place, I get video output during POST and in > >> the BIOS (yes, this machine is old enough that it doesn't have a > >

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Du, 27 dec 20, 17:31:37, The Wanderer wrote: > > I do see various modules listed in the grub.cfg load_video function, and > it's not impossible that the process of trying to use one or more of > those includes some action which triggers this behavior. I haven't found > a place to configure that

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Sun 27 Dec 2020 at 07:02:53 (-0500), The Wanderer wrote: > On 2020-12-26 at 23:01, David Wright wrote: > > On Sat 26 Dec 2020 at 17:19:32 (-0500), The Wanderer wrote: > > > >> I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of > >> AMD GPU (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. > >> > >>

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-27 at 17:23, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 05:08:27PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: > > [...] > >> I have the impression that things have by now developed to the >> point where a physical serial-port cable (of the classic type of >> serial port and cable, whose connec

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 05:08:27PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: [...] > I have the impression that things have by now developed to the point > where a physical serial-port cable (of the classic type of serial port > and cable, whose connectors can be visually confused with a VGA port in > some case

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-27 at 16:36, Anssi Saari wrote: > The Wanderer writes: > >> I need to get that live-boot medium ready and do those tests. > > That seems like a good thing to do. I have it ready now, but haven't shut down for another swap, in part because I've been napping. I may do it tonight, or m

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer writes: > I need to get that live-boot medium ready and do those tests. That seems like a good thing to do. Another thing you could do is post your grub.cfg. It seems a little odd you haven't. Also from previous discussion I think it's worth mentioning that Grub doesn't actually rea

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-27 at 07:10, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2020-12-27 at 02:51, Sven Joachim wrote: > >> On 2020-12-26 18:44 -0500, The Wanderer wrote: >>> That's a good suggestion, except I don't see any way to do that >>> in the /etc/default/grub I have. >>> >>> The closest thing I see is >>> >>> # Un

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-27 at 02:51, Sven Joachim wrote: > On 2020-12-26 18:44 -0500, The Wanderer wrote: > >> On 2020-12-26 at 18:28, Felix Miata wrote: >> >>> I suggest a good place to start would be to goto >>> /etc/default/grub and switch from whichever mode is employed to >>> the other, either plain tex

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-27 at 02:31, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Sb, 26 dec 20, 17:19:32, The Wanderer wrote: > >> With the new GPU in place, I get video output during POST and in >> the BIOS (yes, this machine is old enough that it doesn't have a >> UEFI) without problems. That demonstrates that the GPU isn't

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-26 at 23:01, David Wright wrote: > On Sat 26 Dec 2020 at 17:19:32 (-0500), The Wanderer wrote: > >> I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of >> AMD GPU (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. >> >> I recently purchased a relatively recent model of GPU (Radeon RX >> 5700

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-26 18:44 -0500, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2020-12-26 at 18:28, Felix Miata wrote: > >> I suggest a good place to start would be to goto /etc/default/grub >> and switch from whichever mode is employed to the other, either plain >> text to graphical, or vice versa, then regenerate grub.cfg

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Sb, 26 dec 20, 17:19:32, The Wanderer wrote: > > With the new GPU in place, I get video output during POST and in the > BIOS (yes, this machine is old enough that it doesn't have a UEFI) > without problems. That demonstrates that the GPU isn't dead on arrival, > and that signal is getting throu

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Sat 26 Dec 2020 at 17:19:32 (-0500), The Wanderer wrote: > I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of AMD GPU > (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. > > I recently purchased a relatively recent model of GPU (Radeon RX 5700 > XT), and today swapped it in and attempted to boot wit

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-26 at 19:50, Tony Rowe wrote: > On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 05:19:32PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: > >> With the new GPU in place, I get video output during POST and in >> the BIOS (yes, this machine is old enough that it doesn't have a >> UEFI) > > Since you did not mention it (or anyone

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 05:19:32PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: > With the new GPU in place, I get video output during POST and in the > BIOS (yes, this machine is old enough that it doesn't have a UEFI) Since you did not mention it (or anyone else, I think), did you check that your bios version is

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-26 at 19:49, Linux-Fan wrote: > The Wanderer writes: > >> On 2020-12-26 at 18:50, Linux-Fan wrote: >>> Curious, what machine does not do UEFI yet but still benefits >>> from large GPUs such as the RX 5700? >> >> One I built from parts back when the 6870 was still in the sweet >> spot

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer writes: On 2020-12-26 at 18:50, Linux-Fan wrote: > Georgi Naplatanov writes: > >> On 12/27/20 12:19 AM, The Wanderer wrote: >> > I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of AMD GPU >> > (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. >> > >> > I recently purchased a relatively

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-26 18:44 (UTC-0500): > Felix Miata wrote: >> I suggest a good place to start would be to goto /etc/default/grub >> and switch from whichever mode is employed to the other, either plain >> text to graphical, or vice versa, then regenerate grub.cfg and try >> bootin

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-26 at 18:50, Linux-Fan wrote: > Georgi Naplatanov writes: > >> On 12/27/20 12:19 AM, The Wanderer wrote: >> > I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of AMD GPU >> > (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. >> > >> > I recently purchased a relatively recent model of GPU (Ra

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

Georgi Naplatanov writes: On 12/27/20 12:19 AM, The Wanderer wrote: > I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of AMD GPU > (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. > > I recently purchased a relatively recent model of GPU (Radeon RX 5700 > XT), and today swapped it in and attempted t

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-26 at 18:28, Felix Miata wrote: > I suggest a good place to start would be to goto /etc/default/grub > and switch from whichever mode is employed to the other, either plain > text to graphical, or vice versa, then regenerate grub.cfg and try > booting. That's a good suggestion, except

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-26 17:19 (UTC-0500): ... I suggest a good place to start would be to goto /etc/default/grub and switch from whichever mode is employed to the other, either plain text to graphical, or vice versa, then regenerate grub.cfg and try booting. While in /etc/default/grub,

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 2020-12-26 at 17:33, Georgi Naplatanov wrote: > On 12/27/20 12:19 AM, The Wanderer wrote: > >> I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of AMD GPU >> (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. >> >> I recently purchased a relatively recent model of GPU (Radeon RX 5700 >> XT), and toda

Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

On 12/27/20 12:19 AM, The Wanderer wrote: > I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of AMD GPU > (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. > > I recently purchased a relatively recent model of GPU (Radeon RX 5700 > XT), and today swapped it in and attempted to boot with it. > > I was e

No GRUB with brand-new GPU

I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of AMD GPU (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. I recently purchased a relatively recent model of GPU (Radeon RX 5700 XT), and today swapped it in and attempted to boot with it. I was expecting to get no graphics support (e.g., X, et cetera)