On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 10/26/2013 1:12 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net
wrote:
On 10/26/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
[...]
Machine is a bad term because it
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:37:28 -0400
Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
...
Since you brought it up - who do you think wrote Windows? A bunch of
academics? Or Linux? Or OS/2? Or MacOS? Or Z-OS?
Didn't Linus initially create linux while a university student? And I
believe that the
Not sure I really want to wade back into this but...
Celejar wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:37:28 -0400
Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
...
Since you brought it up - who do you think wrote Windows? A bunch of
academics? Or Linux? Or OS/2? Or MacOS? Or Z-OS?
Didn't Linus
Not in any way disputing your basic premise that it's hard, or
impossible, to do polymorphism and inheritance in C, with which I agree.
And not to weigh in on whether an object is a machine or vice versa
(though a pretty good arguement can be made that objects can be viewed
as finite
I looked around l.d.o/debian-user, but cannot find an admin address
(sorry, I bit stupid sometimes).
Can anyone tell me where my email went - see below - ??
TIA
Zenaan
-- Forwarded message --
From: Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 12:56:13 +1000
On 10/27/2013 6:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Not in any way disputing your basic premise that it's hard, or
impossible, to do polymorphism and inheritance in C, with which I
agree.
And not to weigh in on whether an object is a machine or vice versa
(though a pretty good arguement can be
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And also not to weigh in (much) about what's actually important about
OOP (Alan Kay has more than once pointed out that it's message passing
and isolation that are important, polymorphism and inheritance are just
what seem to get the attention.) By the way: really nice
On 10/27/2013 10:33 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And also not to weigh in (much) about what's actually important about
OOP (Alan Kay has more than once pointed out that it's message passing
and isolation that are important, polymorphism and inheritance are just
what seem to
On Sun, 2013-10-27 at 23:46 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
I looked around l.d.o/debian-user, but cannot find an admin address
(sorry, I bit stupid sometimes).
Can anyone tell me where my email went - see below - ??
TIA
Zenaan
-- Forwarded message --
From: Zenaan
31 Aug 2013 12:56:13 +1000
Is this thread that old or was it sent with a wrong date? Have you
searched the archive? I guess the list's admin can't help.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact
Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net writes:
Can anyone tell me where my email went - see below - ??
-- Forwarded message --
From: Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 12:56:13 +1000
Subject: Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
To:
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
31 Aug 2013 12:56:13 +1000
Is this thread that old or was it sent with a wrong date? Have you
searched the archive? I guess the list's admin can't help.
The original posting was on Aug. 24 (just checked the archives).
Miles Fidelman
--
In theory, there is no difference
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/27/2013 10:33 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And also not to weigh in (much) about what's actually important about
OOP (Alan Kay has more than once pointed out that it's message passing
and isolation that are important, polymorphism and inheritance
Miles Fidelman grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
[tl;dr]
Can you guys PLEASE take this off-topic discussion somewhere else?
Like, maybe, the off-topic list (which, oddly enough, was created for
topics like this)
--Dave
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 16:51:48 -0400
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
No, most business would NOT hire them as programmers - they couldn't
afford them.
From an outside layman (but very interested) perspective the argument
boils down to which is more important, the use of tools
On 10/28/13, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
31 Aug 2013 12:56:13 +1000
Is this thread that old or was it sent with a wrong date? Have you
searched the archive? I guess the list's admin can't help.
The original posting was on Aug. 24 (just checked the
On 10/28/13, Dmitrii Kashin free...@freehck.ru wrote:
Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net writes:
Can anyone tell me where my email went - see below - ??
-- Forwarded message --
From: Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 12:56:13 +1000
Subject: Re: What's
On 10/27/2013 4:51 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/27/2013 10:33 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And also not to weigh in (much) about what's actually important about
OOP (Alan Kay has more than once pointed out that it's message passing
and isolation
On 10/27/2013 5:02 PM, David Guntner wrote:
Miles Fidelman grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
[tl;dr]
Can you guys PLEASE take this off-topic discussion somewhere else?
Like, maybe, the off-topic list (which, oddly enough, was created for
topics like this)
--Dave
Dave,
On 10/27/2013 6:55 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 16:51:48 -0400
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
No, most business would NOT hire them as programmers - they couldn't
afford them.
From an outside layman (but very interested) perspective the argument
boils down
Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
On 10/27/2013 5:02 PM, David Guntner wrote:
Miles Fidelman grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
[tl;dr]
Can you guys PLEASE take this off-topic discussion somewhere else?
Like, maybe, the off-topic list (which, oddly enough, was created for
topics like
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/27/2013 5:02 PM, David Guntner wrote:
Miles Fidelman grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
[tl;dr]
Can you guys PLEASE take this off-topic discussion somewhere else?
Like, maybe, the off-topic list (which, oddly enough, was created for
topics like this)
On 10/25/2013 10:46 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On 10/26/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 10/25/2013 9:59 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On 10/26/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 10/25/2013 8:59 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Anyway, from an onlookers perspective
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net wrote:
On 10/26/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
[...]
Machine is a bad term because it is not Machine Oriented
Programming. It is Object Oriented Programming - because it emulates
real world objects - not
On 10/26/2013 1:12 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net wrote:
On 10/26/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
[...]
Machine is a bad term because it is not Machine Oriented
Programming. It is Object Oriented Programming - because
On 8/29/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 8/29/2013 12:45 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
(I really don't have time to do this.)
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:17 PM,
[Somebody replied to somebody, arguing that C can't do objects.]
The syntax does become obtuse, unfun, cluttered, etc.,
On 8/29/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 8/28/2013 7:52 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Here is the important part: Each object can be viewed as an independent
machine with a distinct role or responsibility..
Nothing forbid to do that in C. I took the example of the
On 10/25/2013 8:59 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On 8/29/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
Please show how you can do inheritance and polymorphism in C.
Not so good finish. Looking at the above, we could say use an
old/original preprocessor? Or do that preprocessors work by hand?
On 10/25/2013 8:59 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On 8/29/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 8/28/2013 7:52 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Here is the important part: Each object can be viewed as an independent
machine with a distinct role or responsibility..
Nothing
On 10/26/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 10/25/2013 8:59 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On 8/29/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 8/28/2013 7:52 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Here is the important part: Each object can be viewed as an
independent
On 10/25/2013 9:59 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On 10/26/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 10/25/2013 8:59 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On 8/29/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 8/28/2013 7:52 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Here is the important
On 10/26/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 10/25/2013 9:59 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On 10/26/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 10/25/2013 8:59 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Anyway, from an onlookers perspective you are being excessively
pedantic and hung up
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 8/29/2013 8:25 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
[...]
3. Inheritance: the ability to extend an existing class, to provide
additional or different functionality via additional messages in the derived
class. Inheritance
On 8/30/2013 1:53 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
As I said - you can emulate Object Based programming in C, although it
is messy. You cannot create Object Oriented programs in C.
Are you saying you can NOT emulate inheritance in C?
Are you saying you can NOT emulate polymorphism in C?
Again,
On 8/30/2013 2:00 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
Okay, so, for you, supporting inheritance and polymorphism at run-time
rather than at compile time is not sufficiently OOP.
And I don't particularly care about that distinction.
I'm fine with ending the discussion there.
--
Joel Rees
You keep
On 8/30/2013 10:44 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 30.08.2013 15:11, Jerry Stuckle a écrit :
On 8/30/2013 2:00 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
Okay, so, for you, supporting inheritance and polymorphism at run-time
rather than at compile time is not sufficiently OOP.
And I don't
Le 30.08.2013 15:11, Jerry Stuckle a écrit :
On 8/30/2013 2:00 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
Okay, so, for you, supporting inheritance and polymorphism at
run-time
rather than at compile time is not sufficiently OOP.
And I don't particularly care about that distinction.
I'm fine with ending the
On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 07:06 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:02:11 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 29.08.2013 01:13, Cousin Stanley a écrit :
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Assembler always is optimized code.
Not always :-)
One can also
On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 09:08 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 07:06 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:02:11 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 29.08.2013 01:13, Cousin Stanley a écrit :
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Assembler always
On 8/29/2013 12:45 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
(I really don't have time to do this.)
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:17 PM,
[Somebody replied to somebody, arguing that C can't do objects.]
The syntax does become obtuse, unfun, cluttered, etc., but it can be done.
I didn't say C can't do objects. I
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 8/29/2013 12:45 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
(I really don't have time to do this.)
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:17 PM,
[Somebody replied to somebody, arguing that C can't do objects.]
The syntax does become obtuse,
On 8/29/2013 8:25 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 8/29/2013 12:45 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
(I really don't have time to do this.)
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:17 PM,
[Somebody replied to somebody, arguing that C can't do
On 8/30/13, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
On 8/29/2013 8:25 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net
wrote:
On 8/29/2013 12:45 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
(I really don't have time to do this.)
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:17 PM,
Le 28.08.2013 03:36, guojzzz a écrit :
The reason why I choose some *formal* projects is that I think codes
are clear and there are less bugs.
I will see on Github and some other projects.
The assumption that clean code is bug-free is wrong. Try to read any
source code of any program you
On 8/28/2013 2:44 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
snip
Another problem with code probably written by gurus, or which run in
environments were high speed and stability is required, is that the code
will be highly optimized, maybe with non-standard features, probably
with lot of
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 22:49:29 +0200, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net
wrote:
While I agree with much of what you said, I definitely disagree with
your comments on macros. C was probably the 10th or so language I
learned, close to 30 years ago. I found macros, when PROPERLY used, can
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Assembler always is optimized code.
Not always :-)
One can also write stinky code in assembler.
Like any programming language,
some programmers are better at it
than others
--
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona
--
To
Le 28.08.2013 22:49, Jerry Stuckle a écrit :
* which is doable in C. People saying that C can not do OOP are
incompetent or lie. I do not really like C programming, but paradigm
have nothing related to syntax, only with writer's minds.
Some people may not like OOP, and they will be true, it is
Le 29.08.2013 01:13, Cousin Stanley a écrit :
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Assembler always is optimized code.
Not always :-)
One can also write stinky code in assembler.
Like any programming language,
some programmers are better at it
than others
--
Stanley C. Kitching
On 8/28/2013 5:10 PM, Ralf Martyrdom wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 22:49:29 +0200, Jerry Stuckle
jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote:
While I agree with much of what you said, I definitely disagree with
your comments on macros. C was probably the 10th or so language I
learned, close to 30 years ago. I
On 8/28/2013 7:52 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 28.08.2013 22:49, Jerry Stuckle a écrit :
* which is doable in C. People saying that C can not do OOP are
incompetent or lie. I do not really like C programming, but paradigm
have nothing related to syntax, only with writer's
On 8/28/2013 8:02 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 29.08.2013 01:13, Cousin Stanley a écrit :
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Assembler always is optimized code.
Not always :-)
One can also write stinky code in assembler.
Like any programming language,
some programmers
(I really don't have time to do this.)
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:17 PM,
[Somebody replied to somebody, arguing that C can't do objects.]
The syntax does become obtuse, unfun, cluttered, etc., but it can be done.
(To get the neurons connecting, think about early objective-C, when
the object
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:02:11 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 29.08.2013 01:13, Cousin Stanley a écrit :
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Assembler always is optimized code.
Not always :-)
One can also write stinky code in assembler.
Like any programming language,
Le 25.08.2013 05:50, guojzzz a écrit :
在 2013年8月25日星期日UTC+8上午11时20分01秒，Zenaan Harkness写道：
On Aug 24, 2013 7:40 PM, guojzzz rush@gmail.com wrote:
Recently I have a interest in Linux Kernel, but I don't think my C
programming skill is able to handle it, I'm just going to read the
code
在 2013年8月27日星期二UTC+8下午8时40分02秒，berenge...@neutralite.org写道：
Le 25.08.2013 05:50, guojzzz a écrit :
在 2013年8月25日星期日UTC+8上午11时20分01秒，Zenaan Harkness写道：
On Aug 24, 2013 7:40 PM, guojzzz rush@gmail.com wrote:
Recently I have a interest in Linux Kernel, but I don't think my C
On 8/27/2013 9:49 AM, guojzzz wrote:
I believe what you said. As people know, Linux Kernel is complex and
complicated, it's hard to read, especially for newbies like me.
And I don't think I'm going to debug codes or hack it, I even am not capable of
doing so. I can play with Python, Common
在 2013年8月27日星期二UTC+8下午10时10分02秒，Jerry Stuckle写道：
On 8/27/2013 9:49 AM, guojzzz wrote:
I believe what you said. As people know, Linux Kernel is complex and
complicated, it's hard to read, especially for newbies like me.
And I don't think I'm going to debug codes or hack it, I
On 8/27/2013 12:50 PM, guojzzz wrote:
在 2013年8月27日星期二UTC+8下午10时10分02秒，Jerry Stuckle写道：
On 8/27/2013 9:49 AM, guojzzz wrote:
I believe what you said. As people know, Linux Kernel is complex and
complicated, it's hard to read, especially for newbies like me.
And I don't think I'm
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 1:50 AM, guojzzz rush@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
I know some books of OS, as Linus mentioned in his biography book. The reason
why
I choose kernel code is that I think it strict and compact, it's bug-less,
it has a code style guide.
But other softwares' codes may
在 2013年8月28日星期三UTC+8上午9时00分01秒，Joel Rees写道：
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 1:50 AM, guojzzz rush@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
I know some books of OS, as Linus mentioned in his biography book. The
reason why
I choose kernel code is that I think it strict and compact, it's bug-less,
it
On 8/27/2013 9:36 PM, guojzzz wrote:
在 2013年8月28日星期三UTC+8上午9时00分01秒，Joel Rees写道：
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 1:50 AM, guojzzz rush@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
I know some books of OS, as Linus mentioned in his biography book. The reason
why
I choose kernel code is that I think it strict
(Mind you, I'm pretty much in agreement with much that others have
said in this thread. You're looking for something that is not where
you're looking for it. But, ...)
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 10:36 AM, guojzzz rush@gmail.com wrote:
在 2013年8月28日星期三UTC+8上午9时00分01秒，Joel Rees写道：
On Wed, Aug 28,
Recently I have a interest in Linux Kernel, but I don't think my C programming
skill is able to handle it, I'm just going to read the code in Github.
So any of you have ever involved in the dev of Linux Kernel? I've been
kernelnewbies.org, it's a great website.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
On Aug 24, 2013 7:40 PM, guojzzz rush@gmail.com wrote:
Recently I have a interest in Linux Kernel, but I don't think my C
programming skill is able to handle it, I'm just going to read the code in
Github.
So any of you have ever involved in the dev of Linux Kernel? I've been
On Aug 24, 2013 7:40 PM, guojzzz rush@gmail.com wrote:
Recently I have a interest in Linux Kernel, but I don't think my C
programming skill is able to handle it, I'm just going to read the code in
Github.
So any of you have ever involved in the dev of Linux Kernel? I've been
在 2013年8月25日星期日UTC+8上午9时50分01秒，Catalin Soare写道：
On Aug 24, 2013 7:40 PM, guojzzz rush...@gmail.com wrote:
Recently I have a interest in Linux Kernel, but I don't think my C
programming skill is able to handle it, I'm just going to read the code in
Github.
So any of you have
在 2013年8月25日星期日UTC+8上午11时20分01秒，Zenaan Harkness写道：
On Aug 24, 2013 7:40 PM, guojzzz rush@gmail.com wrote:
Recently I have a interest in Linux Kernel, but I don't think my C
programming skill is able to handle it, I'm just going to read the code in
Github.
So any of you have
68 matches
Mail list logo
