Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Borden]

> It's only offensive to the people who are offended.  Theoretically all
> words are offensive since any word can be offensive to anyone just because
> they deem it so.  Censoring (i.e. changing the language) of everything to
> appease everyone 1) isn't possible, 2) is foolish at best, 3) is a
> waste of everyone's time, and 4) creates a power hungry mob of zealots
> looking to dismantle any word they deem offensive (e.g. paper machete).

This is poor reasoning. "Foolish at best" and "waste of everyone's time" are 
personal opinions, not arguments. "Isn't possible" is a straw man argument. 
"Creates a power hungry mob of zealots looking to dismantle any word they deem 
offensive" is supported only with weak anecdotal evidence.

Aside from its logical fallacies, this argument fails because  it lacks any 
sort of altruism or empathy. It ultimately boils down to "I don't care what 
anybody else's experience is," which is the reasoning of antisocial personality 
disorders (per the DSM).

So I'm going to as persuasive here as I would be convincing a colour-blind 
person that green and red are different colours. I'll try nevertheless. Before 
trivialising someone's feelings, perhaps expend some effort learning their 
struggles and what led them to find something painful. Try, if you can, to 
imagine being in their position. It's possible that one's brain is physically 
incapable of doing so, those people exist. In which case, I recommend staying 
out of ethical discussions in the same way that colour-blind people should stay 
out jobs requiring colour recognition.

Re: linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 missing on security.debian.org

[mabi]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Tuesday, July 13th, 2021 at 3:29 AM, David Wright  
wrote:

> Your sources.list generated the URL:
>
> http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/l/linux/linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64_3.16.81-1_amd64.deb
>
> whereas this file is available through https://packages.debian.org/ links:
>
> http://security.debian.org/debian-security/pool/updates/main/l/linux/linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64_3.16.81-1_amd64.deb
>
> I think this change may have come with stretch, but seems to have been
>
> enacted retrospectively. (I haven't found a reference to the change.)

Thank you David for your answer, unfortunately even with /debian-security/ in 
the URL, the package is still missing. If you browse that directory you can see 
that the package is missing 3.16.0-10 is missing but 3.16.0-11 is available.

> BTW it might be worth posting why you're still running jessie.
>
> People may be able to advise on how you might deal with what
>
> you see as reasons not to change.

I think this is irrelevant to the fact that a package is missing from the 
Debian security APT repository and I don't want to clutter this mailing list 
with any discussions about why I can't upgrade yet.

Re: APT Sources.list Line Format for Security Updates

[Brian Thompson]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 06:55:30PM +, Gregory McPherran wrote:
>Is one of"http://security.debian.org/debian-security";or   
>"http://security.debian.org";   the correct format ?
>
>Or is the "debian-security" portion optional ?

I don't think `debian-security` in the URL suffix is optional.  Use the
former instead of the latter and set the suite to `bullseye-security` as
well.
-- 
Best regards,

Brian T

Coronavirus is a scam.
9/11 was an inside job.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Brian Thompson]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 04:45:51PM +0200, Alexandre Garreau wrote:
>
>I think it is bad policy of morally judging the frustration, anger or tone 
>of people because of their oppressors.

Oppression has come a long weigh.  Apparently, in my country,  it is
considered oppressive to be a minority who leeches off of the government
and hard-working taxpayers (who, btw, have never seen a positive return on
their federal taxes) and contributing nothing to society.  Oppression
has come a long way from 1912... At least the only countries (that we know
about) with concentration camps is China and NK, but hey, genocide is not
oppressive at all in 2021.
-- 
Best regards,

Brian T

Coronavirus is a scam.
9/11 was an inside job.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Gone @

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 06:05:50AM +0300, Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> I also have trouble with adding me in sudoers group, even though in Root a
> message in the terminal said I was added, I cannot use the sudo command.

If you changed your group memberships (by editing /etc/group or by
using adduser or similar), those changes don't happen until you login
again.  So, the short answer is "log out and back in".

Each running process has a set of privileges associated with it, including
a primary group ID and a list of supplementary groups.  Those privileges
can't be changed -- they stay the same until the process exits.

>From a given shell (which is one of your running processes), you can
see the privileges of that shell by running "id" with no arguments.

You can see the privileges that you will have the next time you login
by running "id yourusername".

If you can't be bothered to log out and back in just yet, you can obtain
a shell with a new set of privileges by running "exec su - yourusername".
This will replace that shell (the one where you type the command) with a
new login shell which has undergone the auth stuff that happens at login.

This will not affect your other running processes, like your desktop
environment or window manager, so eventually you'll want to log out.

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Brian Thompson]

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 08:25:22PM +, ghe2001 wrote:
>Master/slave my be less than optimal when describing humans, but they're very 
>useful when working with DNS.
>
>And blacklist is useful in SMTP, among others.  IIRC, the word refers to 
>voting in classical Athens, not humans.
>
>Offensive terms should, of course, be removed from public discourse, but 
>programmers are free to use any string they want to name a variable in their 
>code -- especially when released compiled.

^ This.  I concur 100%.  Politically correct language, or politics in
general, have no place in software.
-- 
Best regards,

Brian T

Coronavirus is a scam.
9/11 was an inside job.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Gone @

[Gunnar Gervin]

After update the @ disappeared from "Macintosh no dead keys" keyboard,
in Debian Buster i386 Buster 10.9 32bit UEFI
Any suggestions? The dollar sign is gone too.
I also have trouble with adding me in sudoers group, even though in Root a
message in the terminal said I was added, I cannot use the sudo command.
 Gunnar

Re: linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 missing on security.debian.org

[David Wright]

On Mon 12 Jul 2021 at 19:47:37 (+), mabi wrote:
> Thank you Dan for your hint regarding the archive.debian.org APT repo. I have 
> now the following in my sources.list file:
> 
> deb http://archive.debian.org/debian/ jessie contrib main non-free
> deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free
> 
> Unfortunately it still does not work as you can see below:

Change   http://security.debian.org/
to   http://security.debian.org/debian-security

Your sources.list generated the URL:
http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/l/linux/linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64_3.16.81-1_amd64.deb
whereas this file is available through https://packages.debian.org/ links:
http://security.debian.org/debian-security/pool/updates/main/l/linux/linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64_3.16.81-1_amd64.deb

I think this change may have come with stretch, but seems to have been
enacted retrospectively. (I haven't found a reference to the change.)

BTW it might be worth posting why you're still running jessie.
People may be able to advise on how you might deal with what
you see as reasons not to change.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Stefan Monnier]

> It's only offensive to the people who are offended.  Theoretically all
> words are offensive since any word can be offensive to anyone just because 
> they deem it so.  Censoring (i.e. changing the language) of everything to
> appease everyone 1) isn't possible, 2) is foolish at best, 3) is a 
> waste of everyone's time, and 4) creates a power hungry mob of zealots
> looking to dismantle any word they deem offensive (e.g. paper machete).

It's neither black nor white.  Reduction to the absurd doesn't help make
good decisions.  After all, a breath of fresh air is just a bunch of
protons/neutrons/electrons moving, so it's no different from a bullet.
Or is it?


Stefan

APT Sources.list Line Format for Security Updates - Documentation Discrepancy

[Gregory McPherran]

Hi,

This shows the new security line form as:
DebianBullseye - Debian 
Wiki
deb  http://security.debian.org/debian-security   bullseye-security 
   main

This shows the new security line form as:
sources.list(5) — apt — Debian unstable — Debian 
Manpages
deb  http://security.debian.org 
bullseye-securitymain

Is one of"http://security.debian.org/debian-security";or   
"http://security.debian.org"   the correct format ?

Or is the "debian-security" portion optional ?

Thank you,
Greg McPherran



From: Gregory McPherran 
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 2:55 PM
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Subject: APT Sources.list Line Format for Security Updates

Hi,

This shows the new security line form as:
DebianBullseye - Debian 
Wiki
deb  http://security.debian.org/debian-security   bullseye-security 
   main

This shows the new security line form as:
sources.list(5) — apt — Debian unstable — Debian 
Manpages
deb  http://security.debian.org 
bullseye-securitymain

Is one of"http://security.debian.org/debian-security";or   
"http://security.debian.org";   the correct format ?

Or is the "debian-security" portion optional ?

Thank you,
Greg McPherran

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 12 July 2021 12:55:27 James H. H. Lampert wrote:

> I know people who associate the time-honored metasyntactic "foobar"
> with the military slang acronym FUBAR.
>
> --
> JHHL

I've used them interchangeably for 80+ years, and I'll do it till I miss 
roll call. That particular slang was probably in use before Alexander 
opened his library, probably said first in latin, by one of his shield 
makers about a shield brought in for repairs in Constantinople

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: APT Sources.list Line Format for Security Updates

[Michael Stone]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 04:32:52PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

Try both and see which one works.  If the wiki is wrong, edit the wiki so
that it's correct.  (Then hope some jerk doesn't revert your changes.)


There's only one person acting like a jerk here.

Re: APT Sources.list Line Format for Security Updates

[Dan Ritter]

Greg Wooledge wrote: 
> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 06:55:30PM +, Gregory McPherran wrote:
> > This shows the new security line form as:
> > DebianBullseye - Debian 
> > Wiki
> > deb  http://security.debian.org/debian-security   bullseye-security 
> >main
> > 
> > This shows the new security line form as:
> > sources.list(5) — apt — Debian unstable — Debian 
> > Manpages
> > deb  http://security.debian.org 
> > bullseye-securitymain
> > 
> > Is one of"http://security.debian.org/debian-security";or   
> > "http://security.debian.org";   the correct format ?
> > 
> > Or is the "debian-security" portion optional ?
> 
> Try both and see which one works.  If the wiki is wrong, edit the wiki so
> that it's correct.  (Then hope some jerk doesn't revert your changes.)
> If the man page is wrong, file a bug report and pray that the man page
> will be fixed in a post-11.0 point release.

On my test bullseye desktop:

deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main

works without complaint.

-dsr-

Re: APT Sources.list Line Format for Security Updates

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 06:55:30PM +, Gregory McPherran wrote:
> This shows the new security line form as:
> DebianBullseye - Debian 
> Wiki
> deb  http://security.debian.org/debian-security   bullseye-security   
>  main
> 
> This shows the new security line form as:
> sources.list(5) — apt — Debian unstable — Debian 
> Manpages
> deb  http://security.debian.org 
> bullseye-securitymain
> 
> Is one of"http://security.debian.org/debian-security";or   
> "http://security.debian.org";   the correct format ?
> 
> Or is the "debian-security" portion optional ?

Try both and see which one works.  If the wiki is wrong, edit the wiki so
that it's correct.  (Then hope some jerk doesn't revert your changes.)
If the man page is wrong, file a bug report and pray that the man page
will be fixed in a post-11.0 point release.

APT Sources.list Line Format for Security Updates

[Gregory McPherran]

Hi,

This shows the new security line form as:
DebianBullseye - Debian 
Wiki
deb  http://security.debian.org/debian-security   bullseye-security 
   main

This shows the new security line form as:
sources.list(5) — apt — Debian unstable — Debian 
Manpages
deb  http://security.debian.org 
bullseye-securitymain

Is one of"http://security.debian.org/debian-security";or   
"http://security.debian.org";   the correct format ?

Or is the "debian-security" portion optional ?

Thank you,
Greg McPherran

Re: [solved] Re: Network suddenly stopped working

[tomas]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 02:32:12PM +0200, Michael Lange wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:16:13 +0200
>  wrote:
> 
> (...)
> > Your network clearly *thinks* it is up [...]

> well, as you may have guessed I am completely stupid when it comes to
> networking :)

Most of us are. I know I am.

> The symptom, as far as I can tell, is that just any attempt to connect to
> the internet failed. Trying to ping my desktop machine from the laptop
> just gave me "Destination Host Unreachable" messages. With ifconfig I
> could see that no IPv4 address seemed to be assigned. And trying ifdown
> followed by ifup was not possible, because ifdown seemingly refused to
> work.

When you posted ifconfig's output here, your interface seemed to be up,
so /something/ must have changed on the way...

[...]

> So either one of these commands did some magic or something running in
> the background fixed whatever issue there was.

Proceed with fingers crossed :-)

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 missing on security.debian.org

[mabi]

Thank you Dan for your hint regarding the archive.debian.org APT repo. I have 
now the following in my sources.list file:

deb http://archive.debian.org/debian/ jessie contrib main non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free

Unfortunately it still does not work as you can see below:

$ sudo apt-get update
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates InRelease
Ign http://archive.debian.org jessie InRelease
Get:1 http://archive.debian.org jessie Release.gpg [2,420 B]
Hit http://archive.debian.org jessie Release
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main amd64 Packages
Ign http://archive.debian.org jessie Release
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib amd64 Packages
Ign http://archive.debian.org jessie/contrib amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free amd64 Packages
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib Translation-en
Ign http://archive.debian.org jessie/main amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main Translation-en
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free Translation-en
Ign http://archive.debian.org jessie/non-free amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://archive.debian.org jessie/contrib Translation-en
Hit http://archive.debian.org jessie/main Translation-en
Hit http://archive.debian.org jessie/non-free Translation-en
Hit http://archive.debian.org jessie/contrib amd64 Packages
Hit http://archive.debian.org jessie/main amd64 Packages
Hit http://archive.debian.org jessie/non-free amd64 Packages
Ign http://archive.debian.org jessie/contrib Translation-en_US
Ign http://archive.debian.org jessie/main Translation-en_US
Ign http://archive.debian.org jessie/non-free Translation-en_US
Fetched 2,420 B in 2s (841 B/s)
Reading package lists... Done
W: GPG error: http://archive.debian.org jessie Release: The following 
signatures were invalid: KEYEXPIRED 1587841717

$ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages will be upgraded:
  linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64
1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 34.6 MB of archives.
After this operation, 14.3 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
Err http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 
amd64 3.16.81-1
  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]
E: Failed to fetch 
http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/l/linux/linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64_3.16.81-1_amd64.deb
  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]

E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with 
--fix-missing?


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Monday, July 12th, 2021 at 9:34 PM, Dan Ritter  wrote:

> mabi wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I still have an older Debian 8.11 system running and would like to apply 
> > the latest security patches. Unfortunately it seems like some packages are 
> > missing from http://security.debian.org as you can see in the apt-get 
> > update/upgrade" below:
>
> There are no "latest security patches":
>
> In a few weeks Bullseye, Debian 11 will be stable.
>
> Debian 10 is currently stable.
>
> Debian 9 is currently oldstable, and has some security support,
>
> mostly from the donation-accepting Long-Term-Support team
>
> Debian 8 is before that.
>
> If you have any interest in system security at all, please upgrade. You
>
> should be able to upgrade in place without reinstalling from 8 to 9 to
>
> 10 and then to 11 in a few weeks.
>
> PS the packages you are looking for are archived:
>
> https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive
>
> -dsr-

Re: linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 missing on security.debian.org

[Georgi Naplatanov]

On 7/12/21 10:07 PM, mabi wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I still have an older Debian 8.11 system running and would like to apply the 
> latest security patches. Unfortunately it seems like some packages are 
> missing from http://security.debian.org as you can see in the apt-get 
> update/upgrade" below:
> 
> $ sudo apt-get update
> Ign http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie InRelease
> Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie Release.gpg
> Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie Release
> Get:1 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates InRelease [44.9 kB]
> Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/main amd64 Packages
> Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/non-free amd64 Packages
> Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/contrib amd64 Packages
> Get:2 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main amd64 Packages [781 kB]
> Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/contrib Translation-en
> Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/main Translation-en
> Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/non-free Translation-en
> Get:3 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib amd64 Packages [2,506 
> B]
> Get:4 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free amd64 Packages 
> [4,702 B]
> Get:5 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib Translation-en [1,211 
> B]
> Get:6 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main Translation-en [401 kB]
> Get:7 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free Translation-en [11.8 
> kB]
> Fetched 1,247 kB in 2s (512 kB/s)
> Reading package lists... Done
> 
> $ sudo apt-get upgrade
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Calculating upgrade... Done
> The following packages have been kept back:
>   linux-image-amd64 xen-linux-system-amd64
> The following packages will be upgraded:
>   linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 xen-linux-system-3.16.0-10-amd64
> 2 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
> Need to get 35.0 MB of archives.
> After this operation, 27.6 kB of additional disk space will be used.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
> Err http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main 
> xen-linux-system-3.16.0-10-amd64 amd64 3.16.81-1
>   404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]
> Err http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main 
> linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 amd64 3.16.81-1
>   404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]
> E: Failed to fetch 
> http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/l/linux/xen-linux-system-3.16.0-10-amd64_3.16.81-1_amd64.deb
>   404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]
> 
> E: Failed to fetch 
> http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/l/linux/linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64_3.16.81-1_amd64.deb
>   404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]
> 
> E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with 
> --fix-missing?
> 
> I have the following entries in my /etc/apt/sources.list file:
> 
> deb http://ftp.ch.debian.org/debian jessie main non-free contrib
> deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free
> 
> Any idea how I can fix that?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance.
> 
> Best regards,
> Mabi
> 


Hi mabi,

Debian Jessie's support has ended even as LTS.

https://wiki.debian.org/LTS

Kind regards
Georgi

Re: linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 missing on security.debian.org

[Dan Ritter]

mabi wrote: 
> Hello,
> 
> I still have an older Debian 8.11 system running and would like to apply the 
> latest security patches. Unfortunately it seems like some packages are 
> missing from http://security.debian.org as you can see in the apt-get 
> update/upgrade" below:
> 

There are no "latest security patches":

In a few weeks Bullseye, Debian 11 will be stable.
Debian 10 is currently stable.
Debian  9 is currently oldstable, and has some security support,
mostly from the donation-accepting Long-Term-Support team

Debian 8 is before that.

If you have any interest in system security at all, please upgrade. You
should be able to upgrade in place without reinstalling from 8 to 9 to
10 and then to 11 in a few weeks.

PS the packages you are looking for are archived:
https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive

-dsr-

linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 missing on security.debian.org

[mabi]

Hello,

I still have an older Debian 8.11 system running and would like to apply the 
latest security patches. Unfortunately it seems like some packages are missing 
from http://security.debian.org as you can see in the apt-get update/upgrade" 
below:

$ sudo apt-get update
Ign http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie InRelease
Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie Release.gpg
Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie Release
Get:1 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates InRelease [44.9 kB]
Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/main amd64 Packages
Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/non-free amd64 Packages
Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/contrib amd64 Packages
Get:2 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main amd64 Packages [781 kB]
Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/contrib Translation-en
Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/main Translation-en
Hit http://ftp.ch.debian.org jessie/non-free Translation-en
Get:3 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib amd64 Packages [2,506 B]
Get:4 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free amd64 Packages [4,702 
B]
Get:5 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib Translation-en [1,211 B]
Get:6 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main Translation-en [401 kB]
Get:7 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free Translation-en [11.8 
kB]
Fetched 1,247 kB in 2s (512 kB/s)
Reading package lists... Done

$ sudo apt-get upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
  linux-image-amd64 xen-linux-system-amd64
The following packages will be upgraded:
  linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 xen-linux-system-3.16.0-10-amd64
2 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 35.0 MB of archives.
After this operation, 27.6 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
Err http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main 
xen-linux-system-3.16.0-10-amd64 amd64 3.16.81-1
  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]
Err http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64 
amd64 3.16.81-1
  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]
E: Failed to fetch 
http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/l/linux/xen-linux-system-3.16.0-10-amd64_3.16.81-1_amd64.deb
  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]

E: Failed to fetch 
http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/l/linux/linux-image-3.16.0-10-amd64_3.16.81-1_amd64.deb
  404  Not Found [IP: 151.101.2.132 80]

E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with 
--fix-missing?

I have the following entries in my /etc/apt/sources.list file:

deb http://ftp.ch.debian.org/debian jessie main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free

Any idea how I can fix that?

Thank you very much in advance.

Best regards,
Mabi

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Charlie Gibbs]

On Mon Jul 12 11:07:51 2021 Brian Thompson  wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 05:39:43PM +0300, Kevin N. wrote:
>
>>> Right, and I myself have lodged a ticket to ban bar after foo
>>> because it might lead to blithe attitudes concerning alcohol
>>> in our vulnerable youth.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong: like many other things, offensive languages
>> is a serious one.  But, instead of helping, I think that you are
>> in fact minimizing its gravity with such exaggerated actions.
>
> It's only offensive to the people who are offended.  Theoretically
> all words are offensive since any word can be offensive to anyone
> just because they deem it so.

Some people derive a sense of superiority from being offended,
and will exploit every opportunity to do so.  Back in the 1980s
Vancouver was known for Wreck Beach, a clothing-optional beach.
It isn't easy to get to - you have to walk a long, twisting,
steeply-descending trail to the base of a cliff.  You aren't
going to have your delicate eyeballs assaulted without going
to a lot of work.  Yet a city councillor by the name of Bernice
Gerard was so determined to be offended that she made the effort,
and complained loudly about it afterwards.  The resulting newspaper
article made for a good laugh.

> Censoring (i.e. changing the language) of everything to appease
> everyone 1) isn't possible, 2) is foolish at best, 3) is a waste
> of everyone's time, and 4) creates a power hungry mob of zealots
> looking to dismantle any word they deem offensive (e.g. paper
> machete).

Paper machete?

> It's amazing how many people have bought into the corporatization
> of the Internet.

I'll leave the growth of the corporate fascist state for
another thread.

--
/~\  Charlie Gibbs  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /|  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |-- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

Re: Offensive variable names

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Curt wrote:
> > I myself have lodged a ticket to ban bar after foo because it
> > might lead to blithe attitudes concerning alcohol in our vulnerable
> > youth.

Kevin N. wrote:
> I for one, have never in my life thought of alcohol when I saw a variable
> named "foobar". That is ... until I saw your post today :) .

Factually plausible.

But what would be wrong about "foobleep" ?


> Give today's youth a bit of credit. You might discover that they are smarter
> than you think.

That's my main objection against Curt's initiative. Imagine what they
could do to me substantially age-wise challenged person while not being
drunk, drugged, or busy with bleeping.


Peter Ehlert wrote:
> I see the number 80085 has been removed from Maths. It's about time!

There are still lots of legacy calculators around which display it
and also 58008.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Brian Thompson]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 05:39:43PM +0300, Kevin N. wrote:
>>Right, and I myself have lodged a ticket to ban bar after foo because it
>>might lead to blithe attitudes concerning alcohol in our vulnerable
>>youth.
>
>Don't get me wrong: like many other things, offensive languages is a serious
>one.
>But, instead of helping, I think that you are in fact minimizing its gravity
>with such exaggerated actions.

It's only offensive to the people who are offended.  Theoretically all
words are offensive since any word can be offensive to anyone just because 
they deem it so.  Censoring (i.e. changing the language) of everything to
appease everyone 1) isn't possible, 2) is foolish at best, 3) is a 
waste of everyone's time, and 4) creates a power hungry mob of zealots
looking to dismantle any word they deem offensive (e.g. paper machete).

It's amazing how many people have bought into the corporatization of the$
Internet.$
--~$
Best regards,$

Brian T$


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Kevin N.]

Right, and I myself have lodged a ticket to ban bar after foo because it
might lead to blithe attitudes concerning alcohol in our vulnerable
youth.


Don't get me wrong: like many other things, offensive languages is a
serious one.
But, instead of helping, I think that you are in fact minimizing its
gravity with such exaggerated actions.





I guess my sense of humor may be a little too dry.


Well, online communication can be easily misunderstood.

That's why I added the "I still hope that you were joking though :)" part ;)


Cheers,

K.

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[James H. H. Lampert]

I know people who associate the time-honored metasyntactic "foobar" with 
the military slang acronym FUBAR.


--
JHHL

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Curt]

On 2021-07-12, Kevin N.  wrote:
>> Right, and I myself have lodged a ticket to ban bar after foo because it
>> might lead to blithe attitudes concerning alcohol in our vulnerable
>> youth.
>
> Don't get me wrong: like many other things, offensive languages is a 
> serious one.
> But, instead of helping, I think that you are in fact minimizing its 
> gravity with such exaggerated actions.
>

I guess my sense of humor may be a little too dry.

Re: Buster no release file

[Brian]

On Sun 11 Jul 2021 at 21:03:27 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 02:57:24PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > > Revert the change or communicate with the edior. Maybe he has a
> > > persuasive argument?

I wrote the previous two sentences. What is gained by not crediting,
acknowledging or referencing a user's post? I wish it wasn't harder
for people to know who is involved in a thread and what they wrote.
 
> > In my experience, "communicate with the editor" is the second step, the
> > first step being "try to figure out how to communicate with the editor".
> 
> I think this was settled: he's a well-known Debian maintainer, after all.

True in this case but, unfortunately, quite a number of editors don't
register a contact point.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Peter Ehlert]

On 7/12/21 7:39 AM, Kevin N. wrote:

Right, and I myself have lodged a ticket to ban bar after foo because it
might lead to blithe attitudes concerning alcohol in our vulnerable
youth.


Don't get me wrong: like many other things, offensive languages is a 
serious one.
But, instead of helping, I think that you are in fact minimizing its 
gravity with such exaggerated actions.


I for one, have never in my life thought of alcohol when I saw a 
variable named "foobar". That is ... until I saw your post today :) .


What's next? Should we also file a ticket to ban "chocolate bar".
Or maybe we should ban mathematics completely from computing, since 
the "bar" symbol is a frequently used one there?


https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Bar.html
https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Macron.html

I see the number 80085 has been removed from Maths. It's about time!



Give today's youth a bit of credit. You might discover that they are 
smarter than you think.



I still hope that you were joking though :)


Cheers,

K.

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Alexandre Garreau]

Le dimanche 11 juillet 2021, 22:58:55 CEST Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> > Whatever, the use of controversial words in publicly visible code is
> > not an indication of a professional attitude. Overdoing juvenile
> > enthusiasm for provocation might lead to a result like with the
> > "weboob" package which got removed from Debian
> > 
> >   https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=907199
> 
> Just took a look at this.
> It was a real time consuming job only to "try" fixing something done
> because a kid had too much free time !
> 
> It's really childish to gratify oneself by putting offensive comments in
> a software.

I think it is bad policy of morally judging the frustration, anger or tone 
of people because of their oppressors.  I think being mad or offensive, at 
least not even face-to-face, against your boss, bank, etc. is normal and 
sane (at least it is in our country).  On the other hand, tone policing 
looks a bad idea to me, because it blocks debate while maybe discouraging 
people to contribute their ideas u.u

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Kevin N.]

Right, and I myself have lodged a ticket to ban bar after foo because it
might lead to blithe attitudes concerning alcohol in our vulnerable
youth.


Don't get me wrong: like many other things, offensive languages is a 
serious one.
But, instead of helping, I think that you are in fact minimizing its 
gravity with such exaggerated actions.


I for one, have never in my life thought of alcohol when I saw a 
variable named "foobar". That is ... until I saw your post today :) .


What's next? Should we also file a ticket to ban "chocolate bar".
Or maybe we should ban mathematics completely from computing, since the 
"bar" symbol is a frequently used one there?


https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Bar.html
https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Macron.html


Give today's youth a bit of credit. You might discover that they are 
smarter than you think.



I still hope that you were joking though :)


Cheers,

K.

Fwd: Re: ASTM Lab equipment protocol

[Markos]

Hi


On 09/07/2021 20:43, Markos wrote:


Em 09-07-2021 10:21, Rob van der Putten escreveu:


Which Debian packages support the ASTM lab equipment (over TCP) 
protocol? An overview would be nice.
Please, explain with more detail, and some example, what exactly are you 
looking for?


The sister of a friend is a vet. She has blood analyses equipment which
sends analysis results to a serial port. Each brand and model has it's
own protocol.
Recently she acquired Skyla VB1. This device has both a serial port and
Ethernet. It sends a ^A to the serial port, expects a ^F and then sends
the data followed by a ^D, after which it expects an other ^F.
I did manage to get data from the device this way.

The device can also use the ASTM protocol. With ASTM it can also use
Ethernet. Which is more practical.
I could not find a free version of the ASTM standard. Apparently, there
is some Linux software which supports ASTM, but what I could not find is
a nice overview.


Regards,
Rob

=

Hi Rob,

OK. Now I understand a little bit more the situation.

You are referring to this pattern:
https://www.astm.org/Standards/E1381.htm  


I didn't know this standard.

What I have seen in my experience with laboratory automation with some 
instruments/equipment is that each manufacturer has its own ASCII communication 
protocol.

Therefore, it is more viable to use some standard to specify a communication 
interface but without specifying the specific protocol of each 
equipment/instrument.

The only ASTM standard for laboratory automation with this approach (define 
interface) was the LECIS standard, which is now discontinued:
https://www.astm.org/DATABASE.CART/WITHDRAWN/E1989.htm

I discovered, a few days ago, the SiLA project to standardize automation in the 
laboratory:
https://sila-standard.com/

But I still don't know the details.

I have already had to implement programs for serial communication with 
instruments and equipment in the laboratory.

But I don't remember seeing any Debian packages related to this ASTM standard.

I've found some programs for acquisition and graphic display of data received 
through the serial port.

But as they didn't have all the resources I decided to develop my own programs 
using the Tcl/Tk language, always using Debian.

I tried to document some of these projects on my website, which might be useful.

The material is in Portuguese but it is possible to translate it with the help 
of Google Translator: https://tinyurl.com/46vnrp68

Email-me if you have any question.

Best Regards,
Markos

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[Curt]

On 2021-07-11, Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
>
> Whatever, the use of controversial words in publicly visible code is not
> an indication of a professional attitude. Overdoing juvenile enthusiasm
> for provocation might lead to a result like with the "weboob" package which
> got removed from Debian

Right, and I myself have lodged a ticket to ban bar after foo because it
might lead to blithe attitudes concerning alcohol in our vulnerable
youth.

Re: dns failover a record

[Jeremy Hendricks]

The feature you need to look for is GSLB. I’d Google opensource and GSLB. I
saw a few projects that should give you the functionality you need.

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 8:23 AM Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Gokan Atmaca wrote:
> > I want to do dns failover. There is no such feature in the bind
> > service. It has RR feature but no Failover. I have 2 services. I want
> > the A record to change automatically when one is inaccessible. Is
> > there a tool you can recommend for this ?
>
>
>
> The most obvious way to do this is dynamic DNS updates. Set up your
> servers to send a dynamic DNS update to your DNS server when they decide
> that they are the new primary.
>
> Note that DNS TTL records are advisory, not mandatory, so it is
> unlikely that all your traffic will switch over quickly to the
> new primary. Losing connectivity for 3 minutes to 24 hours is
> for various clients is more or less expected.
>
> -dsr-
>
>

[solved] Re: Network suddenly stopped working

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:16:13 +0200
 wrote:

(...)
> Your network clearly *thinks* it is up. What makes you think your net
> doesn't work? (not that I'm doubting your perception, but a more precise
> symptom description might shed some light on the problem).

well, as you may have guessed I am completely stupid when it comes to
networking :)
The symptom, as far as I can tell, is that just any attempt to connect to
the internet failed. Trying to ping my desktop machine from the laptop
just gave me "Destination Host Unreachable" messages. With ifconfig I
could see that no IPv4 address seemed to be assigned. And trying ifdown
followed by ifup was not possible, because ifdown seemingly refused to
work.

> 
> What does (either) "/sbin/route -n" or "ip route show" say?

Oddly, now, without me consciously doing something, except running the
commands Reco and you suggested, the network seems to work again.
So either one of these commands did some magic or something running in
the background fixed whatever issue there was.
The network still works after a reboot (I had tried rebooting several
times before, without effect), so I guess I'll never now what caused
these troubles and how they were fixed.
(the output of your commands looks normal now I think, so there is no
point in posting it here).

Thanks, and best regards

Michael

Re: dns failover a record

[Dan Ritter]

Gokan Atmaca wrote: 
> I want to do dns failover. There is no such feature in the bind
> service. It has RR feature but no Failover. I have 2 services. I want
> the A record to change automatically when one is inaccessible. Is
> there a tool you can recommend for this ?



The most obvious way to do this is dynamic DNS updates. Set up your
servers to send a dynamic DNS update to your DNS server when they decide
that they are the new primary.

Note that DNS TTL records are advisory, not mandatory, so it is
unlikely that all your traffic will switch over quickly to the
new primary. Losing connectivity for 3 minutes to 24 hours is
for various clients is more or less expected.

-dsr-

Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 12 iul 21, 06:08:27, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
> That said, AFAIR it was never necessary to have a daemon like that in
> order for my user to wind up being a member of group video (and having
> access to the GPU via GLX), so for such a daemon to be necessary in
> order for my user to be a member of group render (and have access to the
> GPU via Vulkan) seems like an undesirable and unfortunate step backwards...

As far as I know the user created during install will be added to 
various groups by the installer. In the traditional setup all other 
users and / or groups that get added later must be managed manually by 
the administrator.

I'm guessing either the 'render' group was added since your system was 
last installed, or it wasn't in the installer's list of groups the first 
user should be a member of (or both).

With systemd-logind some permissions are managed dynamically, e.g. 
locally logged in users should automatically get permission to use the 
available hardware (audio, video, etc.), reboot / shutdown the system if 
no other users are logged in, etc.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: dns failover a record

[IL Ka]

>
>
>  I have 2 services. I want
> the A record to change automatically when one is inaccessible.


Do you want the DNS server to ping your service and change "A" record?

There is no such feature AFAIK. You can use two different IPs for services
and provide both of them as A record.
This is called "round robin".

Clients may cache DNS response, so this approach may fail in any case.

You can share IP address between two servers: when one fails, another one
takes this address.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Address_Redundancy_Protocol
https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/ucarp/ucarp.8.en.html

dns failover a record

[Gokan Atmaca]

Hello

I want to do dns failover. There is no such feature in the bind
service. It has RR feature but no Failover. I have 2 services. I want
the A record to change automatically when one is inaccessible. Is
there a tool you can recommend for this ?

Thanks.


-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Network suddenly stopped working

[Reco]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 01:00:08PM +0200, Michael Lange wrote:
> Does that tell something?

Yep. First, your interface name is "enp2s0" has not changed.
Second, someone (another instance of dhclient probably) have obtained a
lease, as indicated by both tcpdump and "ip a" outputs.

Reco

Re: Network suddenly stopped working

[tomas]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 01:00:08PM +0200, Michael Lange wrote:

[...]

> 2: enp2s0:  mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state 
> UP group default qlen 1000
> link/ether 50:e5:49:d8:51:94 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> inet 192.168.178.27/24 brd 192.168.178.255 scope global dynamic enp2s0
>valid_lft 863861sec preferred_lft 863861sec
> inet6 fe80::52e5:49ff:fed8:5194/64 scope link 
>valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> 
> Does that tell something?

Your network clearly *thinks* it is up. What makes you think your net
doesn't work? (not that I'm doubting your perception, but a more precise
symptom description might shed some light on the problem).

What does (either) "/sbin/route -n" or "ip route show" say?

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Writing angry comments inside code and forgetting that opensource means world will read you

[Joe]

On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:36:05 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:


> Astonishment:
>   ./drivers/media/i2c/bt819.c:
> BUG? Why does turning the chroma comb on fuck up color?
> 

Probably the filter coefficients are incorrect, possibly for the wrong
standard (4.43361875MHz/3.579545MHz).

-- 
Joe

Re: Buster no release file

[Brian]

On Mon 12 Jul 2021 at 09:46:37 -, Curt wrote:

> On 2021-07-12, Andrei POPESCU  wrote:
> >
> > Is such duplication really helpful?
> 
> The answer is manifestly yes, unless you're unable to conceive of
> someone coming across the information in the wiki rather than in the
> voluminous release notes. 
> 
> > If the Release Notes are unsuitable for whatever purpose, what can be
> > done to make them better?
> 
> This is a complete straw man. If you want people to be aware of some
> essential bit of information, a redundancy of sources is beneficial.
> That's why information campaigns *disseminate* information in a number
> of media, and in a number of ways. There is no rationality behind
> imposing a mutual exclusivity in this case; to the contrary, experience
> would argue against it.

I think this is a very reasonable point of view. A prominent link to
the Release Notes is necessary on the wiki page but, as a service to
users, pointing out what may be considered of interest (with linis)
is not likely to be harmful. Repetition can serve a useful purpose,
especially if it is accompanied by some explanatory text.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Network suddenly stopped working

[Michael Lange]

Hi,
On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:32:48 +0300
Reco  wrote:

(...)
> does not add up.
> 
> If, for some reason, an interface name had changed - you won't see
> "enp2s0" in the ifconfig output.

thanks for the clarification.

> 
> 
> > some sources I found suggest to look at
> > /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules but there is nothing in that
> > file that is not commented out, so I guess that this mechanism may be
> > outdated.
> 
> It is outdated, and that file should not be present at all.

Ok, thanks.

(...)
> Troubleshooting steps:
> 
> 1) Obtain tcpdump unless it's installed already.
> 2) As root, run "tcpdump -pni any udp port 67 or udp port 68", and let
> it run for a while.
> 3) As root, run "dhclient enp2s0".
> 4) Wait for a minute or so, terminate both tcpdump and dhclient.
> 5) Post the output of steps 2 and 3, plain text preferred, add an output
> of "ip a" for a good measure please.

Ok, here is what I get:

# tcpdump -pni any udp port 67 or udp port 68
tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode
listening on any, link-type LINUX_SLL (Linux cooked), capture size 262144 bytes
12:45:25.021291 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
12:45:40.099508 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
12:45:59.837396 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
12:45:59.839837 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
12:46:04.723115 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
12:46:04.725104 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
12:46:42.878014 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
12:47:00.290058 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
12:47:23.566465 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
12:47:55.826397 IP 192.168.178.1.67 > 192.168.178.27.68: BOOTP/DHCP, Reply, 
length 548
^C
10 packets captured
10 packets received by filter
0 packets dropped by kernel

# dhclient enp2s0
RTNETLINK answers: File exists

(this command always returns immediately; when I enter it a new entry to
the tcpdump output is added)

# ip a
1: lo:  mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group 
default qlen 1000
link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
inet6 ::1/128 scope host 
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: enp2s0:  mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP 
group default qlen 1000
link/ether 50:e5:49:d8:51:94 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
inet 192.168.178.27/24 brd 192.168.178.255 scope global dynamic enp2s0
   valid_lft 863861sec preferred_lft 863861sec
inet6 fe80::52e5:49ff:fed8:5194/64 scope link 
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever

Does that tell something?

Regards

Michael

Re: Useless [Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]]

[Reco]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 06:52:34AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, July 12, 2021 04:11:18 AM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > And that is childish.
> 
> And that is denigrating.

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

Just a friendly reminder to all participants of this thread.

Reco

Re: Useless [Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]]

[rhkramer]

On Monday, July 12, 2021 04:11:18 AM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> And that is childish.

And that is denigrating.

Re: Network suddenly stopped working

[Reco]

Hi.

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 12:16:59PM +0200, Michael Lange wrote:

This:
> With ifconfig the enp2s0 interface appears to be up,

combined with this:
> I suspected udev to have for some reason changed the interface name;

does not add up.

If, for some reason, an interface name had changed - you won't see
"enp2s0" in the ifconfig output.


> some sources I found suggest to look at
> /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules but there is nothing in that
> file that is not commented out, so I guess that this mechanism may be
> outdated.

It is outdated, and that file should not be present at all.


> The output of `systemctl status networking.service` looks like this:

In other words, it is useless. A usual thing, nothing unexpected.


Troubleshooting steps:

1) Obtain tcpdump unless it's installed already.
2) As root, run "tcpdump -pni any udp port 67 or udp port 68", and let
it run for a while.
3) As root, run "dhclient enp2s0".
4) Wait for a minute or so, terminate both tcpdump and dhclient.
5) Post the output of steps 2 and 3, plain text preferred, add an output
of "ip a" for a good measure please.

Reco

Network suddenly stopped working

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

since yesterday the network on my buster system all of a sudden refuses
to work. I am using systemd, no network-manager is running.
The /etc/network/interfaces file looks (as it did before) like:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

allow-hotplug enp2s0
iface enp2s0 inet dhcp

With ifconfig the enp2s0 interface appears to be up, the line that should
look similar to

inet 192.168.178.33  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.178.255

misses, though.
Trying `ifdown enp2s0` the command seems to never return.

I suspected udev to have for some reason changed the interface name; some
sources I found suggest to look at /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
but there is nothing in that file that is not commented out, so I guess
that this mechanism may be outdated.

The output of `systemctl status networking.service` looks like this:

● networking.service - Raise network interfaces
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/networking.service; enabled; vendor 
preset: enabled)
   Active: active (exited) since Mon 2021-07-12 10:40:20 CEST; 1h 27min ago
 Docs: man:interfaces(5)
  Process: 7545 ExecStart=/sbin/ifup -a --read-environment (code=exited, 
status=0/SUCCESS)
 Main PID: 7545 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)

Jul 12 10:40:19 miniac systemd[1]: Starting Raise network interfaces...
Jul 12 10:40:20 miniac systemd[1]: Started Raise network interfaces.

I a not sure what to make of all this, does anyone have a clue what else I
might try?

Thanks in advance

Michael

Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-07-12 at 05:36, tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote:

> Le 11/07/2021 à 20:25, The Wanderer a écrit :

>> Mere minutes after filing a bug report with the Mesa tracker, I thought
>> of something new (of course), and checked it.
>> 
>> Sure enough: if I run vulkaninfo as root, it detects the GPU just fine.
>> 
>> The issue turns out to have been that /dev/dri/renderD128 is owned by
>> group render, and my user was not a member of that group. I don't know
>> of anything which should have told me that it needed to be.
>> 
>> I've added myself to that group, shut down to the (console) login
>> prompt, and brought things back up, and now vulkaninfo detects the GPU
>> as my ordinary user as well.
>> 
>> There was no need for me to have pulled in packages from sid and
>> experimental, but it doesn't seem to have done any harm in this
>> instance, especially as testing is due to be released as stable (which
>> should free up packages to migrate from sid to testing, and let packages
>> in experimental which have non-release-safe changes safely enter sid) in
>> the fairly near future.
> 
> I don't remember adding my user to the render group, and my bash history 
> confirms that, but it is the same here. And /dev/dri/card0 belongs to 
> root:video, so both video and render groups are necessary.

As Andrei points out, this is probably because I'm running sysvinit, and
you're probably running systemd. Debian nowadays is designed and
optimized around the complexity of systemd, so things which systemd
handles automagically by some unknown path won't necessarily be handled
under other, less complex, init systems.

> Right now with the deep freeze unstable packages are probably safer than 
> usual, there is much less turnaround. experimental is another story and 
> some of the packages there will break a system if you pull them on their 
> own. Using experimental requires knowing quite a bit about packages 
> co-dependencies (ie: if I pull mesa, do I need to update llvm too? Is 
> this version of systemd working with my current initramfs-tools?...), 
> reading changelogs, keeping backups and a bootable flash disk around. 
> You seem to check all of those boxes but other reading this might not.

Yeah - that's one of the reasons why I was hesitant to go with even
packages from unstable, much less experimental, unless I had reason to
believe it'd make a difference.

> Regarding your original problem, it seems that you are down to your gpu 
> not being recognized by or accessible to vulkan related processes? Or do 
> you have problems with other graphical applications too?

No; in fact, now that vulkaninfo recognizes the GPU, so do other
programs. (I was using vulkaninfo's ability to do so as a proxy for
other things. I just hadn't run the more heavy-weight tests again at the
time when I sent the previous mail.)

I've been able to get FFXIV to launch, and the benchmark to run (at what
seems like really good performance, although with one weird bug
involving fullscreen switching), without issues. That one
group-membership change seems to have been enough to resolve the Vulkan
issue and get things working.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-07-12 at 03:49, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Du, 11 iul 21, 14:25:31, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> The issue turns out to have been that /dev/dri/renderD128 is owned
>> by group render, and my user was not a member of that group. I
>> don't know of anything which should have told me that it needed to
>> be.
> 
> As far as I understand, this should be taken care of automatically
> via systemd-logind. Might need some Desktop Environment integration
> as well.

I don't run systemd, in part specifically because I don't like
systemd-logind. (IMO, logging in should not automatically launch a
daemon.)

I have, somewhat reluctantly, accepted running elogind instead; I think
that's supposed to be functionality-identical to systemd-logind, just
standalone rather than integrated with the rest of the interconnected
tangle of systemd elements. In this case, it doesn't seem to have
adjusted group membership or device ownership or similar; I'm not sure
whether that's a bug in elogind, or a consequence of the fact that it
doesn't tie in with e.g. udev, or just a misconfiguration on my end.

That said, AFAIR it was never necessary to have a daemon like that in
order for my user to wind up being a member of group video (and having
access to the GPU via GLX), so for such a daemon to be necessary in
order for my user to be a member of group render (and have access to the
GPU via Vulkan) seems like an undesirable and unfortunate step backwards...

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Buster no release file

[Curt]

On 2021-07-12, Andrei POPESCU  wrote:
>
> Is such duplication really helpful?

The answer is manifestly yes, unless you're unable to conceive of
someone coming across the information in the wiki rather than in the
voluminous release notes. 

> If the Release Notes are unsuitable for whatever purpose, what can be
> done to make them better?

This is a complete straw man. If you want people to be aware of some
essential bit of information, a redundancy of sources is beneficial.
That's why information campaigns *disseminate* information in a number
of media, and in a number of ways. There is no rationality behind
imposing a mutual exclusivity in this case; to the contrary, experience
would argue against it.

Re: Writing angry comments inside code and forgetting that opensource means world will read you

[Nicolas George]

Thomas Schmitt (12021-07-12):
> (Maybe because bleep-ing Windows bleeps call us "Linux fags" ?)

Maybe because the kernel programmers are smart enough to know that it's
not about the word, it's about what it means.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT

[tv.deb...@googlemail.com]

Le 11/07/2021 à 20:25, The Wanderer a écrit :




[...]cut


Mere minutes after filing a bug report with the Mesa tracker, I thought
of something new (of course), and checked it.

Sure enough: if I run vulkaninfo as root, it detects the GPU just fine.

The issue turns out to have been that /dev/dri/renderD128 is owned by
group render, and my user was not a member of that group. I don't know
of anything which should have told me that it needed to be.

I've added myself to that group, shut down to the (console) login
prompt, and brought things back up, and now vulkaninfo detects the GPU
as my ordinary user as well.

There was no need for me to have pulled in packages from sid and
experimental, but it doesn't seem to have done any harm in this
instance, especially as testing is due to be released as stable (which
should free up packages to migrate from sid to testing, and let packages
in experimental which have non-release-safe changes safely enter sid) in
the fairly near future.



I don't remember adding my user to the render group, and my bash history 
confirms that, but it is the same here. And /dev/dri/card0 belongs to 
root:video, so both video and render groups are necessary.


Right now with the deep freeze unstable packages are probably safer than 
usual, there is much less turnaround. experimental is another story and 
some of the packages there will break a system if you pull them on their 
own. Using experimental requires knowing quite a bit about packages 
co-dependencies (ie: if I pull mesa, do I need to update llvm too? Is 
this version of systemd working with my current initramfs-tools?...), 
reading changelogs, keeping backups and a bootable flash disk around. 
You seem to check all of those boxes but other reading this might not.


Regarding your original problem, it seems that you are down to your gpu 
not being recognized by or accessible to vulkan related processes? Or do 
you have problems with other graphical applications too?


On stock Debian like my kids are running (linux-image-5.10.0-8-amd64) 
it's working fine, and so is it on my custom upstream kernel. So I don't 
think packages version numbers are the problem. They use the firmware 
package available in Debian unstable, I pulled mine from git.kernel.org, 
and we are all doing fine, no noticeable difference.


Let me know if I can test anything or provide additional info.

Re: Writing angry comments inside code and forgetting that opensource means world will read you

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside quoted:
> # XXX OLD API IS DISABLED (fucking faggots)

(Conveniently already marked as "XXX" language.)

grep finds in linux-source-4.19 the first f-word (with or without "ing")
at 30 occasions with a wide range of actual meanings.

Self-irony:
  ./drivers/scsi/qlogicpti.h:/* Am I fucking pedantic or what? */

Self-pity:
  ./net/core/skbuff.c:/* Fuck, we are miserable poor 
guys... */

Jokingly cursing against the establishment (maybe by the establishment
himself):
  ./lib/vsprintf.c: * Wirzenius wrote this portably, Torvalds fucked it up :-)

Astonishment:
  ./drivers/media/i2c/bt819.c:   BUG? Why 
does turning the chroma comb on fuck up color?

Pedagogics:
  ./Documentation/kernel-hacking/locking.rst:If you don't see why, please stay 
the fuck away from my code.

Outmost warning:
  ./arch/m68k/include/asm/sun3ints.h:/* master list of VME vectors -- don't 
fuck with this */


The other f-word is not present in the kernel sources.
(Maybe because bleep-ing Windows bleeps call us "Linux fags" ?)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Useless [Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]]

[tomas]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 04:11:18AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-07-12 3:43 a.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 04:58:55PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> >> It's really childish to gratify oneself by putting offensive comments in
> >> a software.
> > 
> > Denigrating someone because you disagree with him/her is not a sign of
> > wisdom. Quoting your own signature: "be wise...".
> > 
> I didn't denigrate someone.

Have the last word. I didn't even read it. For me, this thread is through.

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Buster no release file

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 10 iul 21, 18:44:47, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> I was going to link you to the DebianBuster wiki page where I had put
> the standard sources.list for buster, but it appears someone doesn't
> want you to have that information.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster?action=diff&rev2=23&rev1=22

According to the diff the information was replaced with a pointer to the 
release information for buster on the website.

Seems to me like an attempt to avoid duplication (which can easily 
result in information get out of sync)[1].

My (probably biased) view is that also the NewIn pages are 
duplicating a lot of information that either belongs in the Release 
Notes (please file bugs against the package 'release-notes') or is 
already included there.

Is such duplication really helpful?

If the Release Notes are unsuitable for whatever purpose, what can be 
done to make them better?


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Writing angry comments inside code and forgetting that opensource means world will read you [ was : Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-12 3:43 a.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 04:58:55PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> It's really childish to gratify oneself by putting offensive comments in
>> a software.
> 
> Denigrating someone because you disagree with him/her is not a sign of
> wisdom. Quoting your own signature: "be wise...".
> 
Think what you want... If you have better adjective for someone who does
the following :

--START OF CODE--
print("Ok, so leave now, fag.")

# XXX OLD API IS DISABLED (fucking faggots)

def build_token(self, token):
"""
These fucking faggots have introduced a new protection on the token.

Each time there is a call to SAB (selectActionButton), the token
available in the form is modified with a key available in JS:


# CAUTION: this fucking website write a 'Date valeur' inside
a div with a class == 'c-ope'

# i hope they fucking burn in hell for making it that painful

--END OF CODE--

https://git.woob.tech/weboob/weboob/merge_requests/228/diffs

So if you have better word for this type of action than calling this
"childish" then I'd be more than happy to say "Sorry, someone got me a
better word to explain this politely".

Have you read the diffs regarding the "weboob" software that was mentioned ?

Maybe it would be good to know what you are talking about ?

> And no, I don't intend to discuss that further with you.
> 
Then why do you bother writing me a message then ?

> Cheers
>  - t
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Failure to use 3840x2160 30hz with Intel 620 chipset

[Felix Miata]

Felix Miata composed on 2021-07-10 18:29 (UTC-0400):

> I only had a 4K display for 3 weeks 3 years ago, so it's hard for me to be 
> very
> helpful by trying to match behavior, or construct a configuration file free of
> errors.


I forgot something important to this thread. I got a broken 55" 4K LG TV
for free 8 weeks ago. I spent $40US on parts to fix it.

I just tried connecting it to a Kaby Lake Intel PC (HD 620, not UHD 620)
via direct HDMI, along with an ordinary 1920x1080 Samsung HDTV via DisplayPort
to HDMI adapter, using openSUSE 15.2. With only the LG connected, X opened up
in 3840x2160@30 automatically. With both connected, both come up in 
1920x1080@60.
However, xrandr --output HDMI-2 --primary --mode 3840x2160 --output DP-1 --mode 
1920x1080 --above HDMI-2
worked a charm to set 3840x2160@30 on the LG and set the small Samsung above
the big LG.

Rebooting to Bullseye to try the same, I can't get the Samsung HDTV out of
unsupported mode, even though xrandr reports the Samsung is using its native
mode, or trying with any other supported mode selected. This smells like a
Bullseye bug waiting to be reported.

Next I tried openSUSE Tumbleweed. It works as expected there too:
# xrandr --output HDMI-2 --primary --mode 3840x2160 --output DP-1 --mode 
1920x1080 --above HDMI-2
# xrandr | egrep 'onnect|creen|\*' | grep -v disconn | sort -r
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3840 x 3240, maximum 16384 x 16384
HDMI-2 connected primary 3840x2160+0+1080 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
axis) 1600mm x 900mm
DP-1 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 160mm x 
90mm
   3840x2160 30.00*   25.0024.0029.9723.98
   1920x1080 60.00*+  59.9430.0024.0029.9723.98
# inxi -SGay
System:
  Host: ab250 Kernel: 5.12.9-1-default x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 11.1.1
  parameters:...
  Desktop: Trinity R14.0.10 tk: Qt 3.5.0 info: kicker wm: Twin 3.0 vt: 7
  dm: TDM Distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed 20210611
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 630 vendor: ASUSTeK driver: i915 v: kernel
  bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:5912 class-ID: 0300
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.11 driver: loaded: modesetting
  unloaded: fbdev,vesa alternate: intel display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 3840x3240 s-dpi: 144 s-size: 678x572mm (26.7x22.5")
  s-diag: 887mm (34.9")
  Monitor-1: DP-1 res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 305 size: 160x90mm (6.3x3.5")
  diag: 184mm (7.2")
  Monitor-2: HDMI-2 res: 3840x2160 hz: 30 dpi: 61
  size: 1600x900mm (63.0x35.4") diag: 1836mm (72.3")
  OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 630 (KBL GT2)
  v: 4.6 Mesa 21.1.2 compat-v: 3.0 direct render: Yes
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Useless [Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-12 3:43 a.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 04:58:55PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> It's really childish to gratify oneself by putting offensive comments in
>> a software.
> 
> Denigrating someone because you disagree with him/her is not a sign of
> wisdom. Quoting your own signature: "be wise...".
> 
I didn't denigrate someone.
For your information, name calling, being rude, being offensive are
things we all mostly done in the school yard, as a kid.

So, when someone act this way, for example by using the word "faggot"
inside a software. In this particular case, as a text message sent when
the software goes over web protection against automation. I say that
this person is acting like it was in the school yard.

And that is childish.

I don't know what you are looking for but maybe you have too much free time.

> And no, I don't intend to discuss that further with you.
> 
What's the goal of your message ?
You didn't need to add your "two bits of salt and pepers" if you didn't
want the answer.

> Cheers
>  - t
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 11 iul 21, 14:25:31, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
> The issue turns out to have been that /dev/dri/renderD128 is owned by
> group render, and my user was not a member of that group. I don't know
> of anything which should have told me that it needed to be.

As far as I understand, this should be taken care of automatically via 
systemd-logind. Might need some Desktop Environment integration as well.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[tomas]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 04:59:52AM +0800, jeremy ardley wrote:
> 
> On 12/07/2021 4:32 am, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> You can also run into problems with different languages. For
> instance a Swedish developer would have no problem using terms fart,
> prick, and fack, but some English speakers might take offense. The
> are actually in English fast, small dot, and small compartment.
> 
> (WRT fart I used to do fartlek training for orienteering without
> major problems)

Definitely. My take is that we are currently seeing "growing pains",
because "our" community used to be much more homogeneous. And I think,
in the long term, this is a Good Thing, if we all manage to be a bit
tolerant (tolerance is always an "outward motion", i.e. you start
always with yourself :)

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Offensive variable names [was: Cool down ...]

[tomas]

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 04:58:55PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

[...]

> It's really childish to gratify oneself by putting offensive comments in
> a software.

Denigrating someone because you disagree with him/her is not a sign of
wisdom. Quoting your own signature: "be wise...".

And no, I don't intend to discuss that further with you.

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 11 iul 21, 06:54:31, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-07-11 at 03:31, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > While your testing + stable as needed mix is pretty simple[1] the 
> > reverse mix stable + select packages from testing requires adequate 
> > pinning and can quickly become problematic for anything but the
> > simplest packages packages (no or very few dependencies) pulled from
> > testing.
> 
> I can see how it could become an issue for someone who's trying to stick
> mainly with stable, but that's never been my goal. As soon as you
> dist-upgrade against the combination of testing and stable, you're
> primarily on testing, with stable present only as an "in case of
> removal" backstop.

Unless one has appropriate pinning in place ;)

> > You should be using -backports instead or backport packages yourself
> > if necessary[2].
> 
> I hope this is general/generic "you", and not directed at me
> specifically. I first read this as chiding me against running this mix,
> and that came across as mildly offensive.

Indeed it was, apologies for the bad wording.

In my head it didn't apply to you because you aren't actually running 
that mix.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature