Re: LaTex Unicode entry issues

[David]

On Sun, 2023-08-27 at 10:16 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 26/08/2023 19:08, Haines Brown wrote:
> > \documentclass[12pt]{article} %
> > \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} %
> > \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} %
> > \usepackage[greek,english]{babel} % to make Greek charactes
> > available
> 
> It seems, you are overestimating effect. You still need to provide 
> fontenc containing Greek characters. Unless you have real reasons to 
> avoid LuaTeX, I recommend you to use lualatex instead of pdflatex.
> 
> > \DeclareUnicodeCharacter{2014}{\dash} % to get m-dash
> 
> Do you really need it? Even without explicit declaration there is no 
> issue with pdflatex and U+2014 character
> 
> \begin{document}
> Test—character.
> \end{document}
> 
> Not to mention
> 
>  Test---ligature.

> On the other hand in response to
> 
> \begin{document}
> Test\dash{}test.
> \end{document}
> 
> I get
> 
> ! Undefined control sequence.
> l.7 Test\dash
>   {}test.
> ?
> 
> There is \textemdash command however. So you \DeclareUnicodeCharacter
> is 
> incorrect and almost certainly unnecessary.

No need for any of it, just insert --- for an em dash and -- for an en
dash with numbers.

> > If I paste an upper case Omega % Ω
> > into a LaTeX file and run pdflatex on it I am told the character is
> > not
> > set up for LaTeX. \$ albatross tells me it is available in the
> > DejaVu
> > Sans font which I have installed.
> 
> It is sour, but in general even with LuaTeX engine you have to 
> explicitly specify particular font. In the specific case of "Ω", the 
> character is available in lmodern (default font used by LuaTeX).
> Unlike 
> browsers or office software, TeX engines do not try hard to find at 
> least some font that can be used as a fallback for particular
> character.
> 
> 
 Cheers!
-- 
A Kiwi in Australia,
doing my bit toward raising the national standard.

Re: LaTex Unicode entry issues

[Max Nikulin]

On 26/08/2023 19:08, Haines Brown wrote:

\documentclass[12pt]{article} %
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} %
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc} %
\usepackage[greek,english]{babel} % to make Greek charactes available


It seems, you are overestimating effect. You still need to provide 
fontenc containing Greek characters. Unless you have real reasons to 
avoid LuaTeX, I recommend you to use lualatex instead of pdflatex.



\DeclareUnicodeCharacter{2014}{\dash} % to get m-dash


Do you really need it? Even without explicit declaration there is no 
issue with pdflatex and U+2014 character


\begin{document}
Test—character.
\end{document}

Not to mention

Test---ligature.

On the other hand in response to

\begin{document}
Test\dash{}test.
\end{document}

I get

! Undefined control sequence.
l.7 Test\dash
 {}test.
?

There is \textemdash command however. So you \DeclareUnicodeCharacter is 
incorrect and almost certainly unnecessary.



If I paste an upper case Omega % Ω
into a LaTeX file and run pdflatex on it I am told the character is not
set up for LaTeX. \$ albatross tells me it is available in the DejaVu
Sans font which I have installed.


It is sour, but in general even with LuaTeX engine you have to 
explicitly specify particular font. In the specific case of "Ω", the 
character is available in lmodern (default font used by LuaTeX). Unlike 
browsers or office software, TeX engines do not try hard to find at 
least some font that can be used as a fallback for particular character.

Re: priorite de la swap

[Th.A.C]

Le 26/08/2023 à 20:34, hamster a écrit :

Salut.







Mais quand je fais swapon ca me dit :
swapon
NAME   TYPE  SIZE   USED PRIO
/dev/sda1  partition 4,2G 0B   -2

Ce que je comprend pas, c'est que ma partition swap a une priorité de -2 
alors que dans le man ca dit que la priorité peut aller de -1 a 32767.






Salut,

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/a2468cc9bfdff6139f59ca896671e5819ff5f94a
(pas sur d'avoir tout compris...)

Un peu plus clair ici:
https://techpiezo.com/ubuntu/swap-priority-2/
si j'ai bien compris, si on ne fixe pas de priorité, le système attribue 
automatiquement des priorités négatives qui commencent à -2. -2 étant du 
coup la priorité automatique la plus haute.


Pour avoir d'autres résultats, fait une recherche google avec ces termes:
swapon priority value "-2"


Ceci dit, si tu n'as qu'un seul swap, la priorité ne sert à rien 

Re: Virtualization under Bookworm

[Mario Marietto]

So,surely go with virtualbox or vmware workstation.

On Sun, Aug 27, 2023 at 1:20 AM Carl Fink  wrote:

>
> On 8/26/23 16:01, Mario Marietto wrote:
> > If you want a powerful tool,you should spend some of your time on it.
> > If you want to use something easier,you will lose some features,at least.
>
> Yep. That's why I specified that I was more interested in easy setup in
> the threadstarter 
>
> -Carl
>
>

-- 
Mario.

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 06:42:42PM -0400, Karl Vogel wrote:
> If you're running bash, the safest way to find your current working
> directory is capturing the output from /bin/pwd.  Symlinked directories
> can surprise you:
> 
> me$ cd
> 
> me$ ls -ldF today
> lrwxr-xr-x  1 me mis   18 Aug 26 00:03 today@ -> notebook/2023/0826
> 
> me$ cd today
> 
> me$ pwd
> /home/me/today
> 
> me$ /bin/pwd
> /home/me/notebook/2023/0826
> 
> me$ echo $PWD
> /home/me/today

unicorn:~$ help pwd
pwd: pwd [-LP]
Print the name of the current working directory.

Options:
  -Lprint the value of $PWD if it names the current working
directory
  -Pprint the physical directory, without any symbolic links

By default, `pwd' behaves as if `-L' were specified.
[...]

Of course, this is all a big tangent from the original request.

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Karl Vogel]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 12:09:57PM -0400, Tom Browder wrote:
> Excellent mind-reading, Greg! So to use your line I will put in that dir:
> "cd /required-dir || exit"
> 
> Thanks so much.  And thanks to all others who responded.

If you're running bash, the safest way to find your current working
directory is capturing the output from /bin/pwd.  Symlinked directories
can surprise you:

me$ cd

me$ ls -ldF today
lrwxr-xr-x  1 me mis   18 Aug 26 00:03 today@ -> notebook/2023/0826

me$ cd today

me$ pwd
/home/me/today

me$ /bin/pwd
/home/me/notebook/2023/0826

me$ echo $PWD
/home/me/today

If you want to know why you had an early exit:

me$ cat try
#!/usr/bin/env bash
# try: test logging.

export PATH=/usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin
set -o nounset  # check for unbound variables.
tag=${0##*/}
umask 022

# Test file descriptor 2 for interactive or cron use.
test -t 2
case "$?" in
0) logmsg () { echo "$(date '+%F %T') $tag: $@"; } ;;
*) logmsg () { logger -t $tag "$@"; }  ;;
esac

warn () { logmsg "WARN: $@" ; }
die ()  { logmsg "FATAL: $@"; exit 1 ; }

# Real work starts here.
case "$#" in
0)  die "need a directory" ;;
*)  dir="$1" ;;
esac

test -d "$dir" || die "$dir: not a directory"
cd "$dir"  || die "$dir: cannot cd"
cwd=$(/bin/pwd)

logmsg "start working in $cwd"
exit 0

On FreeBSD, you can use "daemon" to run something detached from the
controlling terminal, which simulates running a cron job:

me$ ls -ldF /etc /var/authpf
drwxr-xr-x 27 root wheel  120 26-Aug-2023 07:55:02 /etc/
drwxrwx---  2 root authpf   2 05-Jul-2019 00:45:45 /var/authpf/

me$ ./try /etc
2023-08-26 18:31:54 try: start working in /etc

me$ daemon -f $PWD/try /etc
me$ daemon -f $PWD/try /var/authpf

me$ tail -2 /var/log/syslog
Aug 26 18:19:17 myhost try: start working in /etc
Aug 26 18:19:19 myhost try: FATAL: /var/authpf: cannot cd

Hope this helps.

--
Karl Vogel  I don't speak for anyone but myself.

Oh, my darlin' had bronchitis and she barfed up half a lung,
what came up looked quite amazing when she rolled it on her tongue.
   --sung to the tune of "My Darling Clementine"

Re: Safing.io

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 26 Aug 14:27 -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> I was watching a Linux distro video on YouTube this morning, and one of the
> sponsors was Safin.io which hosts a multi-capability firewall and network
> management device available for download. It looks interesting to me, a
> firewall-challenged sys admin hobbyist.
> 
> Has anyone tried it? It sounds great, even the free version.

I've not heard of it, but that's not surprising.  I prefer OpenWRT as it
is a project similar in the vein of Debian.  I shy away from single
points of failure if at all possible.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Description: PGP signature

Re: Virtualization under Bookworm

[Carl Fink]

On 8/26/23 16:01, Mario Marietto wrote:
If you want a powerful tool,you should spend some of your time on it. 
If you want to use something easier,you will lose some features,at least.


Yep. That's why I specified that I was more interested in easy setup in 
the threadstarter 


-Carl

Re: Virtualization under Bookworm

[Mario Marietto]

If you want a powerful tool,you should spend some of your time on it. If
you want to use something easier,you will lose some features,at least.

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 9:43 PM Carl Fink  wrote:

> Well, last time I looked (at least six or seven years ago) it was a weird
> maze of fiddling to get QEMU/KVM set up. Is it easier now?
> On 8/26/23 14:53, Mario Marietto wrote:
>
> For sure you can't miss qemu + kvm,they are the most powerful tools for
> virtualization. With qemu and kvm you can pass through to the guest OS even
> your gpu. With virtualbox or vmware you can't.
>
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 8:40 PM James Bloom  wrote:
>
>> Carl:
>>
>> I use VirtualBox on Debian 12, and I run virtual Windows 11 and Linux
>> machines with no issue. I also tried GNOME boxes and had no direct
>> problems, but I went back to using VirtualBox because it was compatible
>> with my cloud storage setup - I can save a VirtualBox virtual machine file
>> in the cloud server and access it from my desktop and laptop without issue,
>> whereas GNOME boxes wouldn’t work if I did that - there were always boot
>> errors. But GNOME boxes otherwise seemed to work great.
>>
>> James
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS 
>> --
>> *From:* Carl Fink 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 26, 2023 9:29:30 AM
>> *To:* debian-user@lists.debian.org 
>> *Subject:* Virtualization under Bookworm
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a project that I'd like to work on in a virtual machine hosted on
>> my Bookworm system. In the old days (5-10 years ago) I used VirtualBox,
>> just from inertia. I haven't really virtualized since then.
>>
>> What's the current recommendation for someone who just wants to create a
>> one-off VM to run Debian under Debian? As this is not my job or even
>> main hobby, ideally it should have setup at least as easy as VirtualBox
>> was back in the day.
>>
>> System is an ASUS ExpertCenter PN52 (Ryzen 7 6800, 32 GB of RAM, 2
>> terabyte SSD).
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> -Carl Fink
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mario.
>
>

-- 
Mario.

Re: Virtualization under Bookworm

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 03:43:54PM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> Well, last time I looked (at least six or seven years ago) it was a weird
> maze of fiddling to get QEMU/KVM set up. Is it easier now?
> 
> On 8/26/23 14:53, Mario Marietto wrote:
> > For sure you can't miss qemu + kvm,they are the most powerful tools for
> > virtualization. With qemu and kvm you can pass through to the guest OS
> > even your gpu. With virtualbox or vmware you can't.
> > 
> > On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 8:40 PM James Bloom  wrote:
> > 
> > Carl:
> > 
> > I use VirtualBox on Debian 12, and I run virtual Windows 11 and
> > Linux machines with no issue. I also tried GNOME boxes and had no
> > direct problems, but I went back to using VirtualBox because it
> > was compatible with my cloud storage setup - I can save a
> > VirtualBox virtual machine file in the cloud server and access it
> > from my desktop and laptop without issue, whereas GNOME boxes
> > wouldn’t work if I did that - there were always boot errors. But
> > GNOME boxes otherwise seemed to work great.
> > 
> > James
> > 
> > Get Outlook for iOS 
> > 
> > *From:* Carl Fink 
> > *Sent:* Saturday, August 26, 2023 9:29:30 AM
> > *To:* debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > *Subject:* Virtualization under Bookworm
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have a project that I'd like to work on in a virtual machine
> > hosted on
> > my Bookworm system. In the old days (5-10 years ago) I used
> > VirtualBox,
> > just from inertia. I haven't really virtualized since then.
> > 
> > What's the current recommendation for someone who just wants to
> > create a
> > one-off VM to run Debian under Debian? As this is not my job or even
> > main hobby, ideally it should have setup at least as easy as
> > VirtualBox
> > was back in the day.
> > 
> > System is an ASUS ExpertCenter PN52 (Ryzen 7 6800, 32 GB of RAM, 2
> > terabyte SSD).
> > 
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > -Carl Fink
> > 

Apt-install virt-manager - nice graphical virtual machine manager - and it
should pull in qemu and kvm

All the very best, as ever

Andy Cater
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Mario.

Re: Virtualization under Bookworm

[Carl Fink]

Well, last time I looked (at least six or seven years ago) it was a 
weird maze of fiddling to get QEMU/KVM set up. Is it easier now?


On 8/26/23 14:53, Mario Marietto wrote:
For sure you can't miss qemu + kvm,they are the most powerful tools 
for virtualization. With qemu and kvm you can pass through to the 
guest OS even your gpu. With virtualbox or vmware you can't.


On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 8:40 PM James Bloom  wrote:

Carl:

I use VirtualBox on Debian 12, and I run virtual Windows 11 and
Linux machines with no issue. I also tried GNOME boxes and had no
direct problems, but I went back to using VirtualBox because it
was compatible with my cloud storage setup - I can save a
VirtualBox virtual machine file in the cloud server and access it
from my desktop and laptop without issue, whereas GNOME boxes
wouldn’t work if I did that - there were always boot errors. But
GNOME boxes otherwise seemed to work great.

James

Get Outlook for iOS 

*From:* Carl Fink 
*Sent:* Saturday, August 26, 2023 9:29:30 AM
*To:* debian-user@lists.debian.org 
*Subject:* Virtualization under Bookworm
Hi,

I have a project that I'd like to work on in a virtual machine
hosted on
my Bookworm system. In the old days (5-10 years ago) I used
VirtualBox,
just from inertia. I haven't really virtualized since then.

What's the current recommendation for someone who just wants to
create a
one-off VM to run Debian under Debian? As this is not my job or even
main hobby, ideally it should have setup at least as easy as
VirtualBox
was back in the day.

System is an ASUS ExpertCenter PN52 (Ryzen 7 6800, 32 GB of RAM, 2
terabyte SSD).

Thank you.

-Carl Fink



--
Mario.

Re: Virtualization under Bookworm

[Oliver Wenston]

Hey Carl,

I am currently using Virtual Box installed through their official website
instructions. The screen's top left quadrant has some flashing problems in
a Fedora 38 guest, but otherwise works fine. If anyone here knows why that
is happening, please let me know. It is a NUC using an the Intel iGPU, not
Nvidia nor AMD GPUs.

Best of luck,
Oliver

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 2:25 PM Carl Fink  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a project that I'd like to work on in a virtual machine hosted on
> my Bookworm system. In the old days (5-10 years ago) I used VirtualBox,
> just from inertia. I haven't really virtualized since then.
>
> What's the current recommendation for someone who just wants to create a
> one-off VM to run Debian under Debian? As this is not my job or even
> main hobby, ideally it should have setup at least as easy as VirtualBox
> was back in the day.
>
> System is an ASUS ExpertCenter PN52 (Ryzen 7 6800, 32 GB of RAM, 2
> terabyte SSD).
>
> Thank you.
>
> -Carl Fink
>
>

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Peter Ehlert]

On 8/26/23 06:17, Peter Ehlert wrote:


On 8/25/23 13:22, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:17:25PM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote:

I'm a Mate user, and I never thought to read
https://wiki.debian.org/MATE
until now.
I see no flaws but there are several things that should be updated since
it's last edit on December 24,2019
Who does that?

You do.  That's what a wiki is.


"Account creation failed: Automatic account creation disabled to stop 
spammers signing up. Please contact w...@debian.org and describe what 
you want to do in the wiki. Please contact us in English, otherwise we 
will have to pass your message to online translation services.."


I sent the requested email, I will wait and see


I got a rapid reply from Steve McIntyre and have my new account created.

Safing.io

[Tom Browder]

I was watching a Linux distro video on YouTube this morning, and one of the
sponsors was Safin.io which hosts a multi-capability firewall and network
management device available for download. It looks interesting to me, a
firewall-challenged sys admin hobbyist.

Has anyone tried it? It sounds great, even the free version.

Cheers, all.

-Tom

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[tomas]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 01:54:41PM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:42  wrote:

[...]

> > Basically it is not possible to find out [...]

> As I think I replied earier, I am now checking the script is in the
> required directory in order to be executed (by the root user) [...]

Yes, it seems our posts crossed.

Anyway, glad you found a solution.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Tom Browder]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:42  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 04:45:54PM +0200, DdB wrote:
> > Am 26.08.2023 um 16:25 schrieb Tom Browder:
> > > Is there a way to distinguish whether 'sudo -i' was used or not?
> > >
> > Sorry, i am not an expert on this. But ... since years i am using this
> > to check for it:
> >
> > > # if `echo $HOME` is not "/root" or the working dir (pwd) is not
> "/root", then this was not executed with "sudo -i"
> > > assert "echo $HOME" /root "nicht mit sudo -i aufgerufen"
> > > assert pwd /root "nicht mit sudo -i aufgerufen"
> >
> > hope, this will give you a clue ;-)
> > DdB
>
> Unless, of course, the shell does "export HOME=/root" at some point
> after start. Or one of the other fifty-two ways to achieve that.
>
> That's why I think Roberto is right elsewhere in this thread.
>
> Basically it is not possible to find out, so it makes sense to
> think about the question "why do I need this?" to zoom into what
> the real problem is. Perhaps that one can be solved :-)


As I think I replied earier, I am now checking the script is in the
required directory in order to be executed (by the root user). I am not
concerned with any other caveats or use by any unauthorized users for any
nefarious purpose.

I consider this thread completed.

Thanks to all who responded--Debian users are the best!

-Tom

Re: Virtualization under Bookworm

[Mario Marietto]

For sure you can't miss qemu + kvm,they are the most powerful tools for
virtualization. With qemu and kvm you can pass through to the guest OS even
your gpu. With virtualbox or vmware you can't.

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 8:40 PM James Bloom  wrote:

> Carl:
>
> I use VirtualBox on Debian 12, and I run virtual Windows 11 and Linux
> machines with no issue. I also tried GNOME boxes and had no direct
> problems, but I went back to using VirtualBox because it was compatible
> with my cloud storage setup - I can save a VirtualBox virtual machine file
> in the cloud server and access it from my desktop and laptop without issue,
> whereas GNOME boxes wouldn’t work if I did that - there were always boot
> errors. But GNOME boxes otherwise seemed to work great.
>
> James
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* Carl Fink 
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 26, 2023 9:29:30 AM
> *To:* debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> *Subject:* Virtualization under Bookworm
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a project that I'd like to work on in a virtual machine hosted on
> my Bookworm system. In the old days (5-10 years ago) I used VirtualBox,
> just from inertia. I haven't really virtualized since then.
>
> What's the current recommendation for someone who just wants to create a
> one-off VM to run Debian under Debian? As this is not my job or even
> main hobby, ideally it should have setup at least as easy as VirtualBox
> was back in the day.
>
> System is an ASUS ExpertCenter PN52 (Ryzen 7 6800, 32 GB of RAM, 2
> terabyte SSD).
>
> Thank you.
>
> -Carl Fink
>
>

-- 
Mario.

priorite de la swap

[hamster]

Salut.

Dans man swapon je vois :
-p, --priority priorité
Indiquer  la  priorité d'un périphérique d'échange. priorité est un 
entier compris entre -1 et 32767. Les nombres les plus élevés indiquent 
une priorité plus grande. Consultez swapon(2) pour une description 
complète des priorités d'espace  d'échange.  Ajoutez pri=valeur  dans 
le  champ option de /etc/fstab pour l'utiliser avec swapon -a. La valeur 
par défaut est -1 quand  aucune  priorité n’est définie.


Mais quand je fais swapon ca me dit :
swapon
NAME   TYPE  SIZE   USED PRIO
/dev/sda1  partition 4,2G 0B   -2

Ce que je comprend pas, c'est que ma partition swap a une priorité de -2 
alors que dans le man ca dit que la priorité peut aller de -1 a 32767.


J'ai essayé man 2 swapon comme indiqué pour avoir plus de détails mais 
ca me renseigne pas mieux. J'ai pas trouvé grand chose sur le web non plus.


Si quelqu'un s'y connait en paramétrage de la swap, je suis preneur de 
quelques explications ou liens bien choisis.


Merci d'avance.

Re: Virtualization under Bookworm

[john doe]

On 8/26/23 18:29, Carl Fink wrote:

What's the current recommendation for someone who just wants to create a
one-off VM to run Debian under Debian? As this is not my job or even
main hobby, ideally it should have setup at least as easy as VirtualBox
was back in the day.



I use Virsh and virt-manager when desired.

Your mileage may very!

--
John Doe

Re: Virtualization under Bookworm

[James Bloom]

Carl:

I use VirtualBox on Debian 12, and I run virtual Windows 11 and Linux machines 
with no issue. I also tried GNOME boxes and had no direct problems, but I went 
back to using VirtualBox because it was compatible with my cloud storage setup 
- I can save a VirtualBox virtual machine file in the cloud server and access 
it from my desktop and laptop without issue, whereas GNOME boxes wouldn’t work 
if I did that - there were always boot errors. But GNOME boxes otherwise seemed 
to work great.

James

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Carl Fink 
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2023 9:29:30 AM
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Subject: Virtualization under Bookworm

Hi,

I have a project that I'd like to work on in a virtual machine hosted on
my Bookworm system. In the old days (5-10 years ago) I used VirtualBox,
just from inertia. I haven't really virtualized since then.

What's the current recommendation for someone who just wants to create a
one-off VM to run Debian under Debian? As this is not my job or even
main hobby, ideally it should have setup at least as easy as VirtualBox
was back in the day.

System is an ASUS ExpertCenter PN52 (Ryzen 7 6800, 32 GB of RAM, 2
terabyte SSD).

Thank you.

-Carl Fink

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 26 Aug 07:57 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 07:40:46AM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > * On 2023 26 Aug 07:13 -0500, Anssi Saari wrote:
> > > Nate Bargmann  writes:
> > > 
> > > > This Wiki is semi-private in that editing is not open to just everyone
> > > > but may only be done through an account (apparently I have one and now
> > > > have to figure out how to reset my password).
> > > 
> > > Good for you. I tried creating an account but after putting in name
> > > password and email it says no, send email to w...@debian.org instead. I
> > > think I'll pass. While I have KDE on one Debian machine, I don't use it
> > > much so not that much to contribute.
> > 
> > I was able to successfully change my password and update my Wiki home
> > page a little while ago.  It has been a long time since I created the
> > account and don't recall what the process entailed.
> 
> If I recall correctly, it used to be possible to create an account with
> the standard wiki mechanisms, but that was discontinued due to spammers
> abusing it.  So, those of us who happened to create an account in the
> early days got to do it the easy way, but now any new accounts need to
> be approved by the wiki admins.

I think you're right.  Given the text I updated in my profile/Wiki home
page I'm guessing I created the account ten to fifteen years ago.  At
least Firefox still had the username stored with an expired password
otherwise I'd forgotten all about it!

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 26 Aug 11:10 -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:57 Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:49:45AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> > > I would like to know whether 'sudo -i' or 'sudo -s' was used.
> 
> ...
> 
> > In fact, I suspect "I need to know if the cwd is /root" is STILL an X-Y
> > problem.  It's sounding like "I need to ensure my script's working
> > directory is /foo".  If that's truly the case, just do "cd /foo || exit"
> > at the top of the script.
> 
> ...
> 
> Excellent mind-reading, Greg! So to use your line I will put in that dir:
> 
> "cd /required-dir || exit"

In such cases I prefer specifying the complete paths in the script so as
not to get lost.  If the script needs to work in a specific directory of
root I'll put:

cd /root/dir/dir1

or something like:

cd /home/username/dir

and so on (adding whatever error recovery is needed).

If I need to source a file I just type in the complete path name.  It's
a one time bother and the executing shell doesn't care and as the script
gets more complex it's much easier to keep one's bearings on where the
script is working at various points.

As I see it, relative paths are more for interactive shell use.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[tomas]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 11:56:27AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:49:45AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> > I would like to know whether 'sudo -i' or 'sudo -s' was used.
> 
> That's STILL an X-Y problem.
> 
> > The reason is
> > to know if the cwd is set to '/root' or '.' It's critical for the script
> > execution
> 
> Oh?  Then just look at the current working directory.  It's in the $PWD
> variable.

I guess it's better use the shell builtin pwd:

  PWD=/not/such/file/or/directory
  echo "cwd=" $(pwd) "PWD=" $PWD

(Note: your shell prompt might be a bit... messed up after
that)

> You don't actually need to know what was typed.

Yep, that was my hunch, too.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Virtualization under Bookworm

[Carl Fink]

Hi,

I have a project that I'd like to work on in a virtual machine hosted on 
my Bookworm system. In the old days (5-10 years ago) I used VirtualBox, 
just from inertia. I haven't really virtualized since then.


What's the current recommendation for someone who just wants to create a 
one-off VM to run Debian under Debian? As this is not my job or even 
main hobby, ideally it should have setup at least as easy as VirtualBox 
was back in the day.


System is an ASUS ExpertCenter PN52 (Ryzen 7 6800, 32 GB of RAM, 2 
terabyte SSD).


Thank you.

-Carl Fink

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Michael Kjörling]

On 26 Aug 2023 11:56 -0400, from g...@wooledge.org (Greg Wooledge):
> You don't actually need to know what was typed.

And even being able to answer the question "how was sudo executed"
doesn't solve the problem of ensuring that the script is executing
within a particular directory. All it takes is the user cd'ing to a
different directory before running the script.


> In fact, I suspect "I need to know if the cwd is /root" is STILL an X-Y
> problem.

Agreed.

Also, a few things worth noting:

* The current working directory will ALWAYS be ".". That's what "." at
the beginning of a relative path _means_. So testing the current
working directory against the actual path corresponding to "." will
always return a truthy result.

* The home directory of the root user won't necessarily be /root. By
convention it often is, but there's no guarantee that this is the
case.

* There can be multiple users with the same numerical user ID
(including 0), with different user names and home directories but
access to the same files. The BSDs do this often; Linux systems more
rarely so, but it's absolutely possible.

And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Tom Browder]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:57 Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:49:45AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> > I would like to know whether 'sudo -i' or 'sudo -s' was used.

...

> In fact, I suspect "I need to know if the cwd is /root" is STILL an X-Y
> problem.  It's sounding like "I need to ensure my script's working
> directory is /foo".  If that's truly the case, just do "cd /foo || exit"
> at the top of the script.

...

Excellent mind-reading, Greg! So to use your line I will put in that dir:

"cd /required-dir || exit"

Thanks so much.

And thanks to all others who responded.

-Tom

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:49:45AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> I would like to know whether 'sudo -i' or 'sudo -s' was used.

That's STILL an X-Y problem.

> The reason is
> to know if the cwd is set to '/root' or '.' It's critical for the script
> execution

Oh?  Then just look at the current working directory.  It's in the $PWD
variable.

You don't actually need to know what was typed.

In fact, I suspect "I need to know if the cwd is /root" is STILL an X-Y
problem.  It's sounding like "I need to ensure my script's working
directory is /foo".  If that's truly the case, just do "cd /foo || exit"
at the top of the script.

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Tom Browder]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 09:32 Roberto C. Sánchez  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 09:25:10AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> >In a previous thread it was shown how to detect a SUDO_USER in a bash
> >shell.
> >Is there a way to distinguish whether 'sudo -i' was used or not?


I would like to know whether 'sudo -i' or 'sudo -s' was used. The reason is
to know if the cwd is set to '/root' or '.' It's critical for the script
execution

-Tom

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[tomas]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 04:45:54PM +0200, DdB wrote:
> Am 26.08.2023 um 16:25 schrieb Tom Browder:
> > Is there a way to distinguish whether 'sudo -i' was used or not?
> > 
> Sorry, i am not an expert on this. But ... since years i am using this
> to check for it:
> 
> > # if `echo $HOME` is not "/root" or the working dir (pwd) is not "/root", 
> > then this was not executed with "sudo -i"
> > assert "echo $HOME" /root "nicht mit sudo -i aufgerufen"
> > assert pwd /root "nicht mit sudo -i aufgerufen"
> 
> hope, this will give you a clue ;-)
> DdB

Unless, of course, the shell does "export HOME=/root" at some point
after start. Or one of the other fifty-two ways to achieve that.

That's why I think Roberto is right elsewhere in this thread.

Basically it is not possible to find out, so it makes sense to
think about the question "why do I need this?" to zoom into what
the real problem is. Perhaps that one can be solved :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Alain D D Williams]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 09:25:10AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> In a previous thread it was shown how to detect a SUDO_USER in a bash shell.
> 
> Is there a way to distinguish whether 'sudo -i' was used or not?

I have not tested this but if bash was interactive you will find a
.bash_history file in their $HOME.

That assumes that they have not logged in - ie only ever sudo.

> Thanks.
> 
> -Tom

-- 
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT 
Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: 
https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include 

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[DdB]

Am 26.08.2023 um 16:25 schrieb Tom Browder:
> Is there a way to distinguish whether 'sudo -i' was used or not?
> 
Sorry, i am not an expert on this. But ... since years i am using this
to check for it:

> # if `echo $HOME` is not "/root" or the working dir (pwd) is not "/root", 
> then this was not executed with "sudo -i"
>   assert "echo $HOME" /root "nicht mit sudo -i aufgerufen"
>   assert pwd /root "nicht mit sudo -i aufgerufen"

hope, this will give you a clue ;-)
DdB

Re: [HS] bendel en erreur TLS

[Yannick]

Le 26/08/2023 à 16:40, NoSpam a écrit :

Bonjour,

depuis quelques jours j ene réceptionne plus les messages de la liste, 
les logs postfix/Debian11 affichent


Suis je le seul avec ce soucis ? Une idée du problème ?



Bonjour,

Il y a eu des messages hier (2 + des réponses). Tu es le seul message de 
ce jour

Il y a peu de trafic en ce moment.

Amitiés
--
Yannick VOYEAUD
Nul n'a droit au superflu tant que chacun n'a pas son nécessaire
(Camille JOUFFRAY 1841-1924, maire de Vienne)
http://www.voyeaud.org
Créateur CimGenWeb: http://www.francegenweb.org/cimgenweb/
Journées du Logiciel Libre: http://jdll.org
Généalogie en liberté avec Ancestris https://www.ancestris.org



OpenPGP_0x235AFD4F087CE6E6.asc
Description: OpenPGP public key


OpenPGP_signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Monitorer la connectivité WAN en vue du re-routage

[NoSpam]

Le 26/08/2023 à 10:19, BERTRAND Joël a écrit :

[...]

La sécurité en vivant caché :) A l'inverse beaucoup de routeurs répondent
au ping. Si tu fais un traceroute tu le vois bien.

Surtout que bloquer le ping est une très mauvaise idée (problème de
fragmentation, de session...). Personnellement, lorsqu'un fournisseur
m'impose de bloquer le ping ou renâcle, je change de crèmerie. Le ping,
ce n'est pas simplement un protocole permettant de savoir s'il y a un
machine qui répond (d'autant qu'un nmap -P0 fait ça tout aussi bien).
C'est un protocole important.

Et en encore plus en ipv6

Re: [HS] bendel en erreur TLS

[NoSpam]

Alors là: j'envoie le message et le réceptionne ! Ai je débloqué la 
situation avec cet envoi ? Mystère ...


En attendant je considère le problème comme réglé, désolé pour le bruit.

Le 26/08/2023 à 16:40, NoSpam a écrit :

Bonjour,

depuis quelques jours j ene réceptionne plus les messages de la liste, 
les logs postfix/Debian11 affichent


Aug 26 16:30:23 localhost postfix/smtpd[9118]: connect from 
bendel.debian.org[2001:41b8:202:deb:216:36ff:fe40:4002]
Aug 26 16:30:23 localhost postfix/smtpd[9116]: disconnect from 
bendel.debian.org[2001:41b8:202:deb:216:36ff:fe40:4002] ehlo=1 
starttls=1 quit=1 commands=3
Aug 26 16:30:23 localhost postfix/smtpd[9119]: connect from 
bendel.debian.org[82.195.75.100]
Aug 26 16:30:23 localhost postfix/smtpd[9119]: disconnect from 
bendel.debian.org[82.195.75.100] ehlo=1 starttls=1 quit=1 commands=3


Il va sans écrire que le serveur est OK en terme de DANE TLSA, les 
messages émis pas d'autres serveurs sont bien déĺivrés (OVH, gmail, 
outlook etc).


Une connexion openssl s_client -connect mail.exemple.com:465 est 
fonctionnelle et m'amène sur


220 mail.exemple.com ESMTP

Le problème est en ipv4 comme ipv6.

Suis je le seul avec ce soucis ? Une idée du problème ?

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[tomas]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:29:02AM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:15 AM Dan Ritter  wrote:

[...]

> > The basic problem with popcon is that it is opt-in, and nobody
> > who is at all privacy conscious opts-in.
> >
> > (I fully support this decision. It is absolutely correct.)
> 
> A quick note with an opposing view... learning that I run libc or kde
> on my Debian machine reveals information with little to no value.

[...]

> Telling the Debian maintainers I run libc and kde benefits me and the
> community. Maintainers and developers learn where to allocate
> resources [...]

I think this is the wrong angle. Opt-in is a sign of respect 
towards the users -- whatever reasons the user has is actually
totally irrelevant. It might be privacy, it might be something
else.

This attitude is one of the things why I love Debian.

Cheers
-- 
t


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[HS] bendel en erreur TLS

[NoSpam]

Bonjour,

depuis quelques jours j ene réceptionne plus les messages de la liste, 
les logs postfix/Debian11 affichent


Aug 26 16:30:23 localhost postfix/smtpd[9118]: connect from 
bendel.debian.org[2001:41b8:202:deb:216:36ff:fe40:4002]
Aug 26 16:30:23 localhost postfix/smtpd[9116]: disconnect from 
bendel.debian.org[2001:41b8:202:deb:216:36ff:fe40:4002] ehlo=1 
starttls=1 quit=1 commands=3
Aug 26 16:30:23 localhost postfix/smtpd[9119]: connect from 
bendel.debian.org[82.195.75.100]
Aug 26 16:30:23 localhost postfix/smtpd[9119]: disconnect from 
bendel.debian.org[82.195.75.100] ehlo=1 starttls=1 quit=1 commands=3


Il va sans écrire que le serveur est OK en terme de DANE TLSA, les 
messages émis pas d'autres serveurs sont bien déĺivrés (OVH, gmail, 
outlook etc).


Une connexion openssl s_client -connect mail.exemple.com:465 est 
fonctionnelle et m'amène sur


220 mail.exemple.com ESMTP

Le problème est en ipv4 comme ipv6.

Suis je le seul avec ce soucis ? Une idée du problème ?

--
Daniel

Re: Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 09:25:10AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
>In a previous thread it was shown how to detect a SUDO_USER in a bash
>shell.
>Is there a way to distinguish whether 'sudo -i' was used or not?
>Thanks.
>-Tom

The SUDO_COMMAND environment variable would report /bin/bash in that
instance. Would that be sufficient for your needs?

If not, then what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Please don't say
"I want to know if sudo -i was used" because we already know that. Why
is that a necessary piece of information in your use case? What will you
do with that information? What decision will you make? What action will
you take?

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:15 AM Dan Ritter  wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > Popularity Contest (https://popcon.debian.org/) would be good to
> > consult. But it looks like something is sideways. It does not provide
> > usage statistics for packages like kde-full and gnome. I'm getting the
> > message, "No Popularity contest entry for kde-full" (and friends). I
> > use kde-full and I have popularity contest enabled, so there should be
> > at least one entry.
>
> The basic problem with popcon is that it is opt-in, and nobody
> who is at all privacy conscious opts-in.
>
> (I fully support this decision. It is absolutely correct.)

A quick note with an opposing view... learning that I run libc or kde
on my Debian machine reveals information with little to no value.
Speaking for myself, I am not concerned about a privacy leak in this
particular case.

Telling the Debian maintainers I run libc and kde benefits me and the
community. Maintainers and developers learn where to allocate
resources. I think it's worth the leak since it benefits the distro
and the community.

> The result is that when a popcon entry exists, it represents the
> people who have opted-in to popcon, who are (in my opinion):
>
> - new users
> - individual users (not organization)
> - laptop users
> - desktop users
>
> If you are looking at a package and wondering about large
> organizations or servers, it's probably a bad source of data.

If an organization does not wish to share, then that's their business.
It's not the first time a company takes but does not give back. It
won't be the last time.

> For this particular purpose, it's actually useful:
>
> #rank nameinst  vote   old recent no-files 
> (maintainer)
> 1 perl-base  219693 20327417 1636537 (Niko 
> Tyni)
> 2 libc6  219636 201427   609 1758119 (Gnu 
> Libc Maintainers)
>
> gnome-shell is the default window manager for GNOME:
>
> 738   gnome-shell53530 40495  4216  880415 (Debian 
> Gnome Maintainers)
>
> kwin is the KDE window manager, so it's more or less as popular as KDE.
>
> 1402  kwin-common22176 15401  3453  3315 7 (Debian 
> Qt/kde Maintainers)

Jeff

Using the bash shell: determine if the root user used 'sudo -i'

[Tom Browder]

In a previous thread it was shown how to detect a SUDO_USER in a bash shell.

Is there a way to distinguish whether 'sudo -i' was used or not?

Thanks.

-Tom

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Peter Ehlert]

On 8/25/23 13:22, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:17:25PM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote:

I'm a Mate user, and I never thought to read
https://wiki.debian.org/MATE
until now.
I see no flaws but there are several things that should be updated since
it's last edit on December 24,2019
Who does that?

You do.  That's what a wiki is.


"Account creation failed: Automatic account creation disabled to stop 
spammers signing up. Please contact w...@debian.org and describe what 
you want to do in the wiki. Please contact us in English, otherwise we 
will have to pass your message to online translation services.."


I sent the requested email, I will wait and see

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 07:40:46AM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2023 26 Aug 07:13 -0500, Anssi Saari wrote:
> > Nate Bargmann  writes:
> > 
> > > This Wiki is semi-private in that editing is not open to just everyone
> > > but may only be done through an account (apparently I have one and now
> > > have to figure out how to reset my password).
> > 
> > Good for you. I tried creating an account but after putting in name
> > password and email it says no, send email to w...@debian.org instead. I
> > think I'll pass. While I have KDE on one Debian machine, I don't use it
> > much so not that much to contribute.
> 
> I was able to successfully change my password and update my Wiki home
> page a little while ago.  It has been a long time since I created the
> account and don't recall what the process entailed.

If I recall correctly, it used to be possible to create an account with
the standard wiki mechanisms, but that was discontinued due to spammers
abusing it.  So, those of us who happened to create an account in the
early days got to do it the easy way, but now any new accounts need to
be approved by the wiki admins.

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 26 Aug 07:13 -0500, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Nate Bargmann  writes:
> 
> > This Wiki is semi-private in that editing is not open to just everyone
> > but may only be done through an account (apparently I have one and now
> > have to figure out how to reset my password).
> 
> Good for you. I tried creating an account but after putting in name
> password and email it says no, send email to w...@debian.org instead. I
> think I'll pass. While I have KDE on one Debian machine, I don't use it
> much so not that much to contribute.

I was able to successfully change my password and update my Wiki home
page a little while ago.  It has been a long time since I created the
account and don't recall what the process entailed.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: git setup

[Tixy]

On Fri, 2023-08-25 at 22:36 +, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> If pushing from PRODUCTION is more reliable or less trouble-prone than
> pulling from BACKUP, kindly explain to me, and I shall change.

Another consideration is that to pull from PRODUCTION requires it to be
running a service (e.g. ssh) to give BACKUP access. If PRODUCTION is
something like a laptop that you use when not at home, then you may not
want to have said service exposing itself on strange wifi networks.

-- 
Tixy

Re: LaTex Unicode entry issues

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 26/08/2023 09:08, Haines Brown wrote:

The question is: if my system has access to a character in that it can
be pasted, why cannot LaTeX do so as well.


Because TeX dates from before Unicode was even being discussed, and does 
not use the libraries for handling Unicode that the other software in 
your system does.


That's not to say it has not been modified to add at least partial 
support for Unicode (utf8 is even the default encoding since a couple 
years), but it's not the same as something built from the start to 
handle Unicode.


On the other hand, luatex and xetex are evolutions of tex that have a 
much more modern and native Unicode support. Use them instead of pdf(la)tex.


--
Now I lay me down to sleep
I pray the double lock will keep;
May no brick through the window break,
And, no one rob me till I awake.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Re: git setup

[tomas]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 08:10:20AM -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

[...]

> The reliability should be the same, but you cannot push to a non-bare
> repository. At least not in the standard configuration, but git being git
> I'm sure there's a way to override that.

Actually, if the push doesn't touch the checked-out branch, you can push
to a non-bare repo. Disallowing modifications in the checked-out branch
kinda makes sense, too :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: LaTex Unicode entry issues

[Haines Brown]

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 09:53:23PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 25/08/2023 03:24, Haines Brown wrote:
> > Now it returns the error: "not set up for use with LaTeX." What does
> > this error imply?
> > 
> > This code works to produce an astrisk:
> > 
> > \char"002A
> 
> A complete minimal example of LaTeX document may describe better what are
> you trying to achieve. 

\documentclass[12pt]{article} %
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} % 
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc} % 
\usepackage[greek,english]{babel} % to make Greek charactes available
\DeclareUnicodeCharacter{2014}{\dash} % to get m-dash

\begin{document}

To get m dash rather than "-" I do % \dash. 
Why does this produce the error: Undefined control sequence?

If I paste an upper case Omega % Ω 
into a LaTeX file and run pdflatex on it I am told the character is not
set up for LaTeX. \$ albatross tells me it is available in the DejaVu
Sans font which I have installed. 

If I add \verb|\usepackage[greek,english]{babel}| 
to preface and paste an upper case Omega, in the body I get error: 
Command \verb|\textOmega| unavailable in encoding T1.

A program I use requires the dagger symbol, †, which is code point 2020.
But % \symbol{"2020} 
produces fatal error. 

The code for E is U+0045. I try % 0045
and get error: Unicode character % ^^^ (U+001E) 
not set up for use with LaTeX. It turns out that the character   
\verb| ^ |  can't be used. I suspect the command deprecated because
clashes it its use in math mode.

The command to produce a Omega % \char"005B
produces garbage, not a µ. This character is in DejaVu Sans, but LaTeX
is not able to display it. 

The question is: if my system has access to a character in that it can
be pasted, why cannot LaTeX do so as well.

\end{document}
 

-- 

 Haines Brown 

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Anssi Saari]

Nate Bargmann  writes:

> This Wiki is semi-private in that editing is not open to just everyone
> but may only be done through an account (apparently I have one and now
> have to figure out how to reset my password).

Good for you. I tried creating an account but after putting in name
password and email it says no, send email to w...@debian.org instead. I
think I'll pass. While I have KDE on one Debian machine, I don't use it
much so not that much to contribute.

Looks like some IP address bans in the wiki may have been lifted
recently or I was just lucky.

Re: AW: Debugging initramfs, server hangs during boot process

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-08-26, thah...@t-online.de wrote:

> Tried with clocksourche=hpet
> Now the Switched to clocksouce tsc is missing and the last line is
> clocksource: tsc: mask .
> like before the 2nd last line (as to be expected)

On my kernel I always have those 3 lines during boot :

clocksource: tsc: mask: 0x max_cycles: 0x255cb6cc5db, 
max_idle_ns: 440795203504 ns
clocksource: Switched to clocksource tsc
Freeing initrd memory: 26804K

So you appears to freeze when freeing initrd memory

Re: LaTex Unicode entry issues

[debian-user]

Charles Kroeger  wrote:
> I just have a really large list of UTF-8 characters and if I need one
> I copy it and zap it in. I suppose this is not cool but, chacun a son
> gout.
> 
> a fun site if you want to write someone in UTF-8 runes.
> 
> https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/examples/UTF-8-demo.txt

Gah! A mindworm. My browser shows boxes instead of characters for the
runes, but that's not what's got me.

The second column of the Thai poems is not aligned in my browser :(

But it is in my terminal. But not in gedit or tea or LO. Even when I
set LO to use Hack, which is the font my terminal says it is using.

So now I'm deep in the rabbit holes. Why do fonts behave like that! !!

> ⅩⅩⅥ - Ⅷ - ⅯⅯⅩⅩⅢ

Re: git setup

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 25/08/2023 19:36, Russell L. Harris wrote:

But for me, the only purpose of the backup repository is to ensure
against data loss due to a catastrophic event such as drive failure on
my production host.

If pushing from PRODUCTION is more reliable or less trouble-prone than
pulling from BACKUP, kindly explain to me, and I shall change.


They're equivalent. One small advantage is that you can push directly 
from your working computer; to pull from the backup computer you have to 
ssh there first.


However, pushing to a central repository is the workflow generally used 
when multiple people are working on a project. You may be only one using 
the repository, but if you follow the common procedure, it'll help if 
you ever find yourself working in a multi-user project.



If a bare BACKUP is more reliable or less trouble-prone than
a non-bare BACKUP, kindly explain to me, and I shall change.


The reliability should be the same, but you cannot push to a non-bare 
repository. At least not in the standard configuration, but git being 
git I'm sure there's a way to override that.



--
Parents often talk about the younger generation as if they didn't have
much of anything to do with it.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

AW: Debugging initramfs, server hangs during boot process

[thah...@t-online.de]

Tried with clocksourche=hpet
Now the Switched to clocksouce tsc is missing and the last line is
clocksource: tsc: mask .
like before the 2nd last line (as to be expected)
It still hangs.

It is not hard locked, can do CTRL-ALT-DEL to boot again, booting Windows works.



-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: Re: AW: Debugging initramfs, server hangs during boot process
Datum: 2023-08-26T12:04:46+0200
Von: "Tixy" 
An: "debian-user@lists.debian.org" 

On Sat, 2023-08-26 at 11:07 +0200, thah...@t-online.de wrote:
> I had debug on the command line before, just didn't know of debug=vc
> However the output on the screen is the same with either one.
> 
> Last line is clocksource: Switched to clocksource tsc

I notice two 1 second delays during boot on my new PC which occurred
when TSC related stuff was the last line on the screen. I did fiddle
around with some settings (can't remember what) in order to try and
remove this delay, but decided to leave things at default in the end.

Now googling for "clocksource TSC" gets me a Redhat page about hardware
clocks. [1] Maybe you could try changing the clock with
"clocksource=hpet" or something else, in case the kernel is having
problems with TSC? It's ominous that some search results reveal the
commandline option "tsc=reliable" implying the opposite may true
sometimes.

[1] 
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux_for_real_time/7/html/reference_guide/chap-timestamping

-- 
Tixy



Re: Gradle version in bookworm

[Mark Fletcher]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 at 17:51, Roberto C. Sánchez  wrote:
>
> On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 05:21:55PM +0100, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> > Gradle is not some minority, hardly-used tool, so there is presumably
> > a reason why the package hasn't been updated in Debian. Anyone know
> > what it is?
> >
> Becuase it's Very Hard Work(TM).
>
> Updating Gradle in Debian was proposed as a project under Freexian's
> Project Funding initiative and it was accepted and work was done on it
> for several months:
> https://salsa.debian.org/freexian-team/project-funding/-/issues/19
>

Thanks, that makes interesting reading. On the surface, it's clearly _not_ a
major technical challenge to install considering how easy it is to install
manually.
After my original post I discovered that IntelliJ has been installing
successive
versions of it on my machine and the latest version installed Gradle 8.2
which
is the latest. So I will just use that going forward, and upgrade when I
update IntelliJ.

Looks like the issue for _packaging_ Gradle is some of its dependencies.
That
effort you provided a link to is / was about getting rid of some
proprietary enterprise
plugin, and seems to have uncovered a dependency chain via Kotlin that
slightly
bizarrely leads to a dependency on OpenJDK 8... Really? In 2023? If I am
reading
the discussion right it looks like the version of Kotlin we have in Debian
depends
on OpenJDK 8 and no one is stepping forward to update that. They are making
rumbling noises about dropping gradle from Debian. I like gradle and will
likely
continue using it -- but since I can get it onto my machine with zero
effort via
Intellij I don't seek to insist that Debian package it (and installing it
manually is
easy if I had to... which I don't). So I guess the way out of this current
situation
is either for gradle to be dropped from Debian or Kotlin to get an upgrade.
I'd lean
towards drop it except that there is an acknowledgement that Kotlin isn't
going
away and will need an upgrade at some point anyway...

Anyway, thanks, I understand the situation a little better now -- and also
I have
a path forward for my own work, so I am happy now.


Mark

Re: AW: Debugging initramfs, server hangs during boot process

[Tixy]

On Sat, 2023-08-26 at 11:07 +0200, thah...@t-online.de wrote:
> I had debug on the command line before, just didn't know of debug=vc
> However the output on the screen is the same with either one.
> 
> Last line is clocksource: Switched to clocksource tsc

I notice two 1 second delays during boot on my new PC which occurred
when TSC related stuff was the last line on the screen. I did fiddle
around with some settings (can't remember what) in order to try and
remove this delay, but decided to leave things at default in the end.

Now googling for "clocksource TSC" gets me a Redhat page about hardware
clocks. [1] Maybe you could try changing the clock with
"clocksource=hpet" or something else, in case the kernel is having
problems with TSC? It's ominous that some search results reveal the
commandline option "tsc=reliable" implying the opposite may true
sometimes.

[1] 
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux_for_real_time/7/html/reference_guide/chap-timestamping

-- 
Tixy

AW: Debugging initramfs, server hangs during boot process

[thah...@t-online.de]

I had debug on the command line before, just didn't know of debug=vc
However the output on the screen is the same with either one.

Last line is clocksource: Switched to clocksource tsc

Looking at the stuff in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts
I think I would need to mess the shell scripts with debug prints just to find
where it is stuck 

uaaah!

-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: Re: Debugging initramfs, server hangs during boot process
Datum: 2023-08-26T10:20:54+0200
Von: "Michel Verdier" 
An: "debian-user@lists.debian.org" 

On 2023-08-26, Tixy wrote:

>> I thought of that, too, but debug writes to a tmpfs (it has to, at this
>> point). If the machine locks up, the log is lost...
>
> Logs will appear on the screen so long as you don't have the 'quiet'
> parameter on the Linux commandline.

I think it always writes to tmpfs which is moved to /run/initramfs, but
only if the boot succeded. So thahn01 should use debug=vc to get debug
logs on screen during boot.



Re: Monitorer la connectivité WAN en vue du re-routage

[BERTRAND Joël]

Michel Verdier a écrit :
> Le 25 août 2023 Olivier a écrit :
> 
>> 1. Connaissez-vous un document qui justifie techniquement ces
>> "questions de sécurité" ?
> 
> La sécurité en vivant caché :) A l'inverse beaucoup de routeurs répondent
> au ping. Si tu fais un traceroute tu le vois bien.

Surtout que bloquer le ping est une très mauvaise idée (problème de
fragmentation, de session...). Personnellement, lorsqu'un fournisseur
m'impose de bloquer le ping ou renâcle, je change de crèmerie. Le ping,
ce n'est pas simplement un protocole permettant de savoir s'il y a un
machine qui répond (d'autant qu'un nmap -P0 fait ça tout aussi bien).
C'est un protocole important.

Bien cordialement,

JB

Re: Debugging initramfs, server hangs during boot process

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-08-26, Tixy wrote:

>> I thought of that, too, but debug writes to a tmpfs (it has to, at this
>> point). If the machine locks up, the log is lost...
>
> Logs will appear on the screen so long as you don't have the 'quiet'
> parameter on the Linux commandline.

I think it always writes to tmpfs which is moved to /run/initramfs, but
only if the boot succeded. So thahn01 should use debug=vc to get debug
logs on screen during boot.

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 25 Aug 23:57 -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 3:50 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:26:29PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > > Two of the wiki articles that will help with a migration to Debian are
> > >  and .
> > >
> > > It would be helpful if folks with Gnome and KDE experience would look
> > > over the articles and provide corrections and updates.

In order the help the OP since I apparently deleted this thread when it
started, the GNOME page looks reasonably accurate.  I do not have AMD
hardware so I cannot comment on that section.

The mouse cursor theme can be changed through the Tweaks GUI, but that
only takes effect once GNOME Shell actually starts and doesn't affect
gdm, as I understand it.

> > You're kinda asking the wrong crowd.  A significant portion of the
> > active posters on this mailing list use neither of those things.
> >
> > This probably explains the state of the wiki pages as well, if one
> > assumes that the users of this list correlate with the wiki editors
> > to a certain degree, at least in terms of desktop choices.
> 
> Yeah, it's hit or miss.
> 
> But I disagree with your assessment. I am proof by counter-example. I
> use KDE, and I've made some edits to the KDE article. I'm guessing
> there will be other folks on the list who could make edits. Or this is
> an extremely small list.

I've been a Debian user and member of this list for quite a long time,
since the late 1990s at least.  In all that time I don't recall the
Debian Project approaching this list requesting our assistance in
updating/maintaining the Wiki.  This Wiki is semi-private in that
editing is not open to just everyone but may only be done through an account
(apparently I have one and now have to figure out how to reset my
password).

The Wiki front page is rather adamant that addition of content to the
Wiki by everyone is welcome and desired.  In particular solutions are
provided on this list that should make it onto the Wiki.  I'm not
volunteering for that "job" but it is something we might all consider in
the future.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: LaTex Unicode entry issues

[Charles Kroeger]

I just have a really large list of UTF-8 characters and if I need one I
copy it and zap it in. I suppose this is not cool but, chacun a son gout.

a fun site if you want to write someone in UTF-8 runes.

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/examples/UTF-8-demo.txt

ⅩⅩⅥ - Ⅷ - ⅯⅯⅩⅩⅢ

-- 
 ☢ ➛ ☠ ➛ ♺

Re: Debugging initramfs, server hangs during boot process

[Tixy]

On Sat, 2023-08-26 at 07:59 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 07:40:21AM +0200, Michel Verdier wrote:
[...]
> > 
> > Did you try with "debug" on the linux command line to get more logs
> > ?
> 
> I thought of that, too, but debug writes to a tmpfs (it has to, at this
> point). If the machine locks up, the log is lost...

Logs will appear on the screen so long as you don't have the 'quiet'
parameter on the Linux commandline.

-- 
Tixy

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Tixy]

On Sat, 2023-08-26 at 00:55 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> I'm getting the
> message, "No Popularity contest entry for kde-full" (and friends). I
> use kde-full and I have popularity contest enabled, so there should be
> at least one entry.

Perhaps because they're metapackages?

-- 
Tixy