Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software unfriendly

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 05:02:09PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> > Do you have any suggestion as to which list would be better to contact?
> >> > Original: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/04/msg00324.html
> >> Maybe `reportbug debian-installer`?
> > but perhaps without all the deception crap, unless you really mean
> > to impugn the developers' motives.
> 
> Yup, better try to make the developers/maintainers your friends, so you
> may get them to do something with which they disagree just to make you
> happy, rather than refuse to do something out of spite, even tho they
> know it's right.
> 

Hi Stefan,

As you say, there are ways to get the developers to pay attention to
you. One of them, at least, is to be constructive and to assume good
faith. Developers will often take the best technical solution rather
than doing it "just to make you happy".

Rarely do developers do something out of spite though there may be
massive technical disagreements. It's probably worth remembering 
that Debian developers are also users of Debian - and that we're 
all more or less on the same side.

Imputation of bad faith (or snarky comments) don't help either the 
person commented on or the reputation of the commenter, necessarily.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andrew Cater
[amaca...@debian.org]

> 
> Stefan
> 

Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software unfriendly

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:31:03AM -0700, Reid wrote:
> Debian's policy change on non-free-firmware has made much of the Debian.org
> website very misleading, and some Debian OS installers have become very
> Free Software UNfriendly and deceptive. The following is my experience,
> and the reasons why I believe Debian must re-word their promotional web
> pages, and update all their installers to respect user choice regarding
> installation of non-free-firmware or not:

I respect your experience. I think Debian made strenuous efforts to
make the change, to publicise it, to hold an open vote. It was covered 
by a bunch of the tech press - it wasn't hidden in any way.

Others have pointed you to the resources on that.

> 
> I'm a 10+ year Debian user, and a longtime Free Software supporter. Two
> weeks ago I was shocked to discover 29 non-free components in the Debian
> desktop I'd been using for the last couple months. There hadn't been any
> opt-in or even a notice about Debian's major policy change during the
> installation process (I use the Debian installer via the Live images),
> so I was completely unaware.
> 

That's probably a bug in Calamares. I checked with one of the live cd 
maintainers on this. As has been pointed out, the live cd is really
intended more for checking than for major use but it does need some work.
If you found the non-free components - where were they - under the /firmware
directory?

> In my initial attempts to figure out what was going on, I also didn't find
> any prominent announcement of the major policy change on Debian.org's
> homepage. Moreover, the "Our Philosophy" and "Why Debian" homepage links
> still give the impression that Debian is Free-Software-Friendly. That's 
> extremely misleading now (automatically installing 29 non-free components 
> with neither permission nor warning is not Free Software friendly).
> 

Debian *is* Free software friendly: the manufacturers aren't and the non-free
firmware included is to allow people to actually install Debian. The project
deliberately split the firmware out into a new repository, tagged as non-free
and gave instructions as to what that was. The Project doesn't recommend
the use of other non-free software but retains that repository separately for
those that want to use it.

> If Debian is going to continue promoting itself with those "Our Philosophy"
> and "Why Debian" pages, there should at least be opt-ins during the
> installation process of every Debian download, as well as prominent warnings
> of the new policy on the download pages. Until that's done, the
> "Our Philosophy" and "Why Debian" pages (and perhaps others) should be
> re-worded so as to not be so misleading.
>

The philosophy remains the same: there is an option during installation
and there are explicit opt-ins to each repository that gets added to 
/etc/apt/sources.list or equivalent. If you *really* want to check,
do an expert install of Debian which includes the lowest priority questions
that can generally be omitted in a standard install.
 
> I was disappointed to eventually read of Debian's "vote"
> on non-free-firmware. Though I do understand the desire to make Debian more
> friendly to new users, doing so by misleading and alienating many existing
> users doesn't make a lot of sense IMO:
>

The vote was as standard vote via General Resolution not just a "vote".
Doing this has allowed some new users to install Debian. Visually impaired
users may need non-free firmware just to be able to hear the installer: 
others may need WiFi to work - not all machines now have Ethernet available.
 
> After reading of this change, I then spent the next week trying to figure
> out how to re-install Debian without the non-free firmware. That's when I
> discovered that Debian has suddenly become very Free-Software-UNfriendly.
> Even when I used the "firmware=never" method on the Debian installer
> (Live image dvd), the 29 non-free components were still installed! Without
> warning. That "firmware=never" method is what Debian.org itself is
> recommending (on a rather deep link sadly), but it doesn't even work!
> 

See above: this may be a consequence of using the live DVD

> So I eventually abandoned that longtime favorite method of installing my
> preferred desktop, and switched to the NON-Live DVD installation... But
> then discovered that using "firmware=never" method there also blocks
> FREE-firmware that used to get installed. So now my Wifi adapter didn't
> work, whereas it always worked with Debian 11/Bullseye and earlier
> installations.

Which chipset, please? If you installed the free firmware package, what
changed?

> 
> Ultimately it took me about a week, and about a dozen Debian Bookworm 
> re-installations, and even hiring a developer, to get an installation via DVD 
> that was similar to what was previously installed by default. I've provided 
> some tips below to others who are struggling. However, Debian needs to change 
> all it's installers to 

Re: Testing amd64 netinst LUKS+LVM install broken

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2024 at 05:51:26PM -0700, Craig Hesling wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm having an issue with the guided partitioner in the Debian testing amd64
> installer.
> Specifically, the "Guided - use entire disk and set up encrypted LVM"
> errors out and emit the following error message:
> 
> partman-lvm: pvcreate: error while loading shared libraries: libaio.so.1:
> cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
> 

Hi,

I suspect that Debian Testing _might_ be uninstallable just at the moment.
There's a large scale migration and change of packages (to do with securing
a workable time implementation post-2038 and moving from 32 bit values).

That's taken a lot longer than expected: Debian Unstable and therefore
Debian Testing have been hit. It's just possible that this library
is caught up in the dependencies.

This will resolve itself in due course - but it might be better to
install a minimal stable and then upgrade to testing later.

Be aware also that the problematic version of xz libraries is also
in Debian testing - someone else pointed this up the other day.

Hope this helps,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)


> Is this a known issue?
> 
> *Reproduction:*
> 
> md5sum ~/Downloads/debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso
> > d80f2f073cdb2db52d9d1dd8e625b04b
>  /home/craig/Downloads/debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso
> dd if=/dev/zero of=~/Downloads/test-hda.img bs=1G count=8
> qemu-system-x86_64 -cdrom ~/Downloads/debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso -hda
> ~/Downloads/test-hda.img -m 8G
> 
> https://youtu.be/jJ-oOA2s8Wc
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Craig

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list [Modified 20240401]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

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Re: Bookworm Fasttrack and Virtualbox

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 10:49:16PM +0100, Miguel A. Vallejo wrote:
> Greg Wooledge () wrote:
> 
> > It's not just you.  The use of three "b" names in a row (buster,
> > bullseye, bookworm) was in my opinion a poor decision.  I've taken
> > to calling the releases by their numbers (10, 11, 12) instead of
> > their codenames to avoid confusion wherever possible.
> >
> 
> I feel ashamed.
> 

Don't feel ashamed: the time_t 64 transition has meant that unstable
is genuinely unstable. It's OK to have difficulty: the main thing
is that you've got it to work now.

This is _exactly_ the right approach: you've explained your problems,
you asked for advice, you've managed to solve them. I wish other 
people could do the same :)

All the very best, as ever,

Andy

> 
> Now my sources.list is with bookworm, and virtualbox is working just fine,
> like it was in unstable.
> 
> Thank you and sorry for the inconveniences.

Re: Bookworm Fasttrack and Virtualbox

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 01:31:40PM -0400, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Sunday 17 March 2024 08:48:29 am Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 12:35:33PM +0100, Miguel A. Vallejo wrote:
> > > Well... it seems my brain can't distinguish Bookworm from Bullseye.
> > 
> > It's not just you.  The use of three "b" names in a row (buster,
> > bullseye, bookworm) was in my opinion a poor decision.  I've taken
> > to calling the releases by their numbers (10, 11, 12) instead of
> > their codenames to avoid confusion wherever possible.
>  
> The use of those codenames drives me nuts...
> 
> I don't,  for the most part,  have any idea what numeric version is being 
> referred to,  and would far prefer to see those numbers used instead,  myself.
> 

It works both ways - there is a place for both to coexist. The one thing
that is consistently difficult is when people refer to "I have a system
running Debian stable" and you don't know _which_ version they're talking
about. 10, 11 and 12 have all been stable at some point: if someone says
"Oh, I've found an old system running stretch" I have some idea how old
it is.

Bear in mind that the first version of Debian to have a codename was one
of the earliest precisely *because* the numbers were problematic. (A third
party CD vendor put out "Debian 1.0" which was Debian 0.97 and a pre-release - 
the release proper had to be 1.1)

Debian has more or less dropped the importance of the number in the point
release space as significant. It doesn't make a great deal of difference
if you're running 12.4 or 12.5 unless you're significantly out of date and
haven't updated for months or years. The significance of the codename in
/etc/apt/sources.list is that it's an enduring token - it's easy to see
the difference between buster and bullseye when you see the word.

As a Debain developer, I'm watching the changes in unstable at the minute
to make Debian 64 bit time safe: it's taking longer than anyone would want
but I know that it's meant for Trixie not Forky. "The usrmerge transition 
has been talked about for several releases - it will likely be ready for 
Trixie but we might have to support some legacy provision into Forky (or
even Forky+1). i386 deprecation will happen in Trixie, with likely full
removal in Forky." (say) is meaningful to me even if I have to think
that Trixie (will be) Debian 13 at release and that Forky is the
as yet largely unplanned Debian 14.

That code name is stable for all stages of the release cycle and that's 
important, even as I don't know when the final releases will be.

Notably, Ubuntu has both a very defined release cycle and a defined series
of codenames in alphabetical order (except for Wily Wombat) and you have
to remember which versions are LTS. I know that Precise is newer than
older variants and older than Trusty but I couldn't tell you which 
versions are LTS from codenames alone. I just know to pick versions that 
are 14.04, 16.04, 18.04 etc. - likewise, I can't tell you know what the
end dates for ten year support are because that was only introduced latterly.
[Wily Wombat was 5.04, Nimble Numbat will be 24.04].

Other distributions have codenames that are effectively meaningless and
largely internal - Red Hat, anybody?  Debian tends to use both for
overlapping purposes.

For you as an end user - use whichever you feel happiest with.

All the best, as ever,

Andy
> 
> -- 
> Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
> ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
> be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
> -
> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
> M Dakin
> 

End this thread now, please. [WAS Re: Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

People,

Please end the thread at this point. Thank you.

As Andy Smith points out, I asked politely for this thread to cease
a while ago because it would degenerate to more heat than light.
I was wrong - it degenerated to futility.

Please remember the FAQ: remember the Code of Conduct and the ways
to keep this list useful.

In a similar way to dealing with spam: stop replying when there's 
nothing constructive to add. If you think people are trolling,
don't spend ages discussing it, necessarily, because that will
encourage the thread to continue. Move to the next topic.

Any and all of you may think that this is political correctness
gone mad / censorship or whatever. Changing terminology is 
inevitable over time: making meanings clear (while at the same
time avoiding being potentially offensive) is a useful purpose
in itself.

Nobody is forcing an attitude change on every individual in
the Debian community but the continued ask is for people
to be constructive in dealing with each other. That's my
purpose in asking for this thread to stop - now.

With every good wish

Andrew Cater
[For the Debian Community Team] 

Mailing list FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 20240201)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

Codes of Conduct


* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both
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  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
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Guidelines for this list

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list should work:

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* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing
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* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
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  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

Answering questions and contributing to discussions constructively
==

* This is a fairly busy mailing list but even so you may have to wait some
  time for an answer - please be patient.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.
  
* It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list.
  
* Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
  a question before you - if so, you should not reply simply in order to get
  the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.

* Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
  welcome here. 

* Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments do not belong here
  either.

  Debian's community is world wide; do not assume others will agree with your
  views or need to read them on a Debian list.
  
Editing and answering mailing list posts


* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
  or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
  accordingly so that this can be clearly seen. 

  For example: New question [WAS Old topic]

* It may also be useful for someone to post a summary email from time to
  time to explain long threads.
  
* Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
  and scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.

* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread are much easier to
  read and follow than long threads.

* If you are replying to a post, please reply in-line if possible and 
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Private replies and responding to posts off-list


* Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
  conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
  along on the list or reading the archives later.

* We're only human: you may want to respond to someone off-list
  to make a point (or to wish them Happy Birthday / comment that you
  haven't seen them for a long time). We're also a community and the
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  BUT

* Posting outside the list can be unhelpful: bad behaviour outside the lists 
  can't easily be dealt with and will be invisible. You may inadvertently leak
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  you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
  else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
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  be a couple of thousand readers in the background. Nobody is
  a mind reader, nobody can sit beside you. Please help by providing
  useful details if asked, especially which version of Debian you are
  running.
  
I'm not using Debian but ...


* Strictly, discussions of other distributions are off-topic here.
  Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian will be
  only our best guess - other distributions may do things very differently.
  Any advice given accordingly may be inaccurate but is given in good faith.

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This is a public list, archived in many places

Re: Problem of suspend activities ( debian 12 )

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 06:41:42AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 09:38:05 +0100
> Mansour Nasri  wrote:
> 
> > Hi I'm using debian 12 in Lenovo yoga legion core i5 12th gen with
> > RTX 3050 and I'm figuring a serious issue using debian 12 on this PC,
> > When the PC is on sleep mode ( suspend ) it's doesn't wake up anymore
> > until forcing shutting down and this each time the PC turns on
> > suspend mode, ( fastboot are disabled )of course, on my old PC dell
> > i7 10th I never had this kind of issue, but this it it's the case,
> > please help to resolve this problem I really don't want to back to
> > windows anymore. Thank you so much
> 
> You might look at installing the backports kernel.
> 

You have a machine which has an Nvidia card in it - does it also have
Intel graphics as well?

If so, you may need to look at how to install ??Prime/bumblebee??

In order to do this, you may need to reinstall / fully disable the nouveau
driver and then continue.

If you choose to install the proprietary Nvidia drivers - these taint the 
kernel and so you may have issues with secure boot and enrolling keys.

See also https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater
(amaca...@debian.org)
> -- 
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
> 
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/
> 

Cease and desist, please [WAS Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

[Also copied to commun...@debian.org]

t's time to kill this thread - nothing useful is being said at this point.

At its best, this list is useful for helping people and for providing 
information.

It's also a window on the world of Debian and how Debian contributors, regulars 
on the list
(and the odd single poster) contribute to the wider perception of Debian and 
what we collectively do. 

Help uphold a good reputation for all of us.

Help maintain the usefulness of this list by knowing when to stop hitting the 
Enter key
and when to put the keyboard down (and go and do something else for a few 
minutes) rather
than continuing to reply to a mailing list thread.

No-one has to contribute to every contentious point and there is consideration 
in knowing when
to stop and avoid more effort to make your own opinions heard.

Please also consider the Debian Code of Conduct and the requirement to be 
constructive or face sanctions.

With thanks for your consideration in this.

Andrew Cater
(amaca...@debian.org)

For the Debian Community Team

/etc/apt/sources.list example [WAS Re: medically smart watches]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 05:16:21AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 2/25/24 03:36, Geert Stappers wrote:
> > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 02:05:50PM -0500, Lee wrote:
> > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 12:06 PM gene heskett wrote:
> > > > On 2/24/24 11:03, Loïc Grenié wrote:
> > > > > On Sat Feb 24th, 2024, at 16:03, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > >  Greetings all;

> > > 
> > > What I'd like to find is software that lets me get the data off the
> > > reader into my PC.
> > 
> > As I see it, is https://wiki.debian.org/BluetoothUser now the best place
> > to go.
> > 
> I have to agree, and pursuing that seems to disclose I do not have the
> non-frre in my configs. So I'm now asking for help to add it to my
> /etc/apt/sources *.list stuff.
> > 

For apt sources.list - have a look at:

https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList

> 

> > 
> > > Regards
> > > Lee
> > 
> > Groeten
> > Geert Stappers
> > 
> > About Original Poster:
> > I have never met Gene Heskett. When we will, I guess he will do 80%,
> > may be 90% of the talking, unlikely fifty-fifty. I think I will OK
> > with the non-balanced dialog, because I knew it from the begining.
> > Beside the difference in verboseness between Gene and me, there are lots
> > of common goals. For starters "Debian". Gene wrote in mailinglists posts
> > about his work as engineer, where he did serious trouble shooting.
> And yet. the one time the NAB had their annual broadcasters bash in D/FW I
> discovered I could be arrested in Texas for impersonating an Engineer
> because my business card said I was the CE at WDTV. but I was not a degree'd
> EE. That I'm not, I am a CET, a much more comprehensive final exam, we can
> teach the EE's things their prof's never touched, if the EE is willing to
> learn. Sadly, too many get the sheepskin and then turn off the learning
> because they already know it all. I don't generally waste a lot of time with
> them.
> 
> I've had EE's spend the night telling I'm wasting my time, it won't work.
> And are blown away, when I push the final button and it just works. I have
> no idea how many EE's there are here in the states, 10,000+ probably. There
> are only around 130 CET's.  Yet I have only an 8th grade diploma and a GED.
> Yet I know how simple things work, up to and including Einsteins theory's.
> as demonstrated by the time distortion a klystron amplifier does to a tv
> signal. I had to teach the FCC about that back in the '70's.
> 
> Computers are 1000 times more complex.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> 

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

[On list: copied to commun...@debian.org]

Hi people,

As you might have expected: this subject is drifting off-topic and becoming
a little more personal.

In answer to the first question: there's a reference to a wiki page.
It's a wiki page: it can be edited by (almost) anyone. If anyone wants
to remove the references to ifenslave and substitute others, that's
entirely fine.

As regards personal back and forth argument: can I remind _everyone_ on
the list, without exception, of the need to stay within the Debian
Code of Conduct (and the mailing list Code of Conduct).

Please try to be considerate, helpful and ,above all, constructive. It
makes a difference when it comes to dealing with anything remotely
contentious.

I think the discussion might usefully stop at this point before it
degenerates to more heat than light (as is the way of most discussions
eventually - call it an application of mailing list entropy :) ) 

With thanks for your consideration - and with every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater
[For the Community Team]

Banning a user from posting to Debian lists

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

[Also posted to commun...@debian.org / listmas...@lists.debian.org]

Subject: Banning of a user from posting to Debian lists
===

As noted in the monthly FAQ, among the events that can take place on Debian
lists as a result of breach of the Debian Code of Conduct is a temporary or
permanent ban from the mailing lists (and other official Debian resources).

Following  a last attempt to reach out and further consideration, it has been
requested to ban Sophie / Michael from the Debian-user mailing lists and other
resoures.

The mailing list threads have gone on for some years with no resolution and no
improvement in engagement with others: taken as a whole, this amounts to
misusing the goodwill of those on the list and, potentially, a misuse of
Debian resources overall.

Such decisions are taken rarely: this is an unusual event. As ever, it is
requested that people continue to behave according to the standards expressed
in the Debian Code of Conduct - being considerate and constructive and helpful
to others.

You should appreciate that this decision as final: as ever, the 
Community Team is there to discuss conduct in Debian channels.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andrew Cater
(amaca...@debian.org)

For the Community Team

Re: Combining Distro DVD's

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 09:24:47AM +0100, hw wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-02-12 at 13:41 -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:
> > I thought it'd be a nice idea to combine any and all distribution media 
> > for a release into a single medium--a USB drive, of course. I'd start by 
> > creating my USB drive by extracting the first DVD to it, thereby 
> > ensuring the boot block and boot material is where it should be. But 
> > then what do I do with the additional media?
> > [...]
> 
> Maybe put a copy of a Debian mirror onto another partition.
> 

"All distribution media" - including source - is a very large USB stick.

If you want the DVD contents, for binaries on one architecture - say amd64,
 start with the 16G image or the Blu-Ray
and you've got it fairly well - you will need to use jigdo to do this..

There have been discussions on this a few times on the list - look back
and someone posted a script to do this.

>From experience: writing even 29G reliably to a USB3 stick takes a _long_
time. The odds of a bit error while writing much more go up significantly.

For Debian on a desert island - a laptop with a mirror on a 4G NVME would
be fine. Mirror is probably a more reliable way to go.

All the best,

Andy

Re: Debian bookworm 12.4 installation wifi card not being detected

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 02:41:42PM -0600, Exeonz wrote:
> Results on ubuntu are
> 
> /03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM4360
> 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter [14e4:43a0] (rev 03)
>     Subsystem: Apple Inc. BCM4360 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter
> [106b:0117]
>     Kernel driver in use: wl
>     Kernel modules: bcma, wl/
> 
> 
> During debian install it's same result but without /kernel driver and kernel
> modules/
> I use an iOS device and I don't think tethering feature is supported there.

I just posted this to debian-boot in response to the earlier query there:

Try the image for a DVD at 
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-12.5.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso

That may give you more packages in order to be able to build the needed 
kernel modules, at least.

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org) 

Re: Debian bookwork 12.4 installation wifi card not being detected

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 12:08:08AM -0600, Exeonz wrote:
> I just tried using Trixie and it's the same issues. Seems that the installer
> isn't even recognizing wifi card at all  so no matter what drives I give it
> refuses to use them. *No Ethernet card was found on the system.* I think my
> only option is using wifi usb adapter that works, I already tried using usb
> wifi adapter that I had at hand but didn't work because it too uses
> proprietary driver.

If you can find someone to help who has a wired network or you can run an
Ethernet cable to your wifi router - a USB to Ethernet adapter and a cable
should work. Once you have that in place, you should be able to get
the appropriate dkms package, build the module for the Debian kernel
and it should all be fine.

If tethering to an Apple phone can work, that can also work but will
possibly be more difficult to set up. You will need the prerequisites
to build kernel modules - so probably at least the Debian build-essential
package and kernel headers.

Andy

Re: -new HP AMD ryzen with realtec audio. The HP is mo1-F3xxx It has winblows 11 on it and I want it gone. It does have a 256GB SSD. Is there any thing i need to know before i try to install Bookworm

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 09:48:52PM +, Maureen Thomas wrote:
>  So can I please get some help.  I have a portable CD/DVD and I made a USB 
> with a ISO on it.  The computer does not have a cd/dvd burner but I have a 
> portable one.  Can some one tell me if there are any special things I need to 
> do to put Debian 12 on this machine.  I really hate windows and need to get 
> it gone.  Your help is always appreciated by this old lady.  Thank you in 
> advance>
> On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 08:10:24 PM EST, Maureen Thomas 
>  wrote:  
>  
>  
> ,, 1  

Hi Maureen,

It will very much depend if your computer will boot from an exteral
CD/DVD which is USB connected. If it will - check in the BIOS / firmware,
then you should be fine.

If not, many machines will boot from a USB stick. You may find that yours
will do so, in which case the only thing you will need to do is to get the
image written appropriately to a USB drive.

We can help, potentially - there's enough expertise on the list to help
debug problems as they arise.

(Andy, just having done *lots* of Debian installs as part of the release
testing for the media team - but not one from an external CD/DVD drive -
from what I can see, the laptops I have do boot from external devices
connected via USB, though a CD/DVD might also be seen as a hard drive. Your
mileage may vary :) )

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)

Can Linux update an old kernel [WAS Re: AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 01:21:55PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Yes.
> 
> 
> I found out
> I do use an old kernel.
> 
> Can LINUX update a kernel?
> 

Hi Sophie,

Yes, of course. As root/sudo user, apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade

But you still don't give anybody any actual *details*

All best, as ever,

Andy

> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> 
> 
> Von: chris 
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. Februar 2024 19:35
> An: Schwibinger Michael 
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> Very helpful ty
> 
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, 1:57 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Good afternoon.
> 
> The bug report
> 
> sudo ...
> You are not in the sudoers file.
> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Hans mailto:hans.ullr...@loop.de>>
> Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Januar 2024 18:44
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> 
> Am Freitag, 26. Januar 2024, 17:23:07 CET schrieben Sie:
> 
> Yes, if you want to install soemthing for example by using the apt command, 
> best way is becoming root with the command "su -" and then install the 
> rquired package.
> 
> 
> Example:
> 
> su -  then enter the password of the user root
> 
> 
> If installing for example firefox, first read the repository:
> 
> 
> apt update
> 
> 
> then install the package
> 
> 
> apt install firefox-esr
> 
> 
> -
> 
> 
> Hint: If you want a graphical method and you have no X and Wndow-Manager 
> running (like KDE, Gnome, XFCE whatever), I suggest using aptitude.
> 
> 
> You have to install aptitude first:
> 
> 
> apt install aptitude
> 
> 
> Then you can start the gui with the command "aptitude" as root.
> 
> 
> Hint 2: aptitude is controlled by keypresses without any enter-key.
> 
> For example, when started aptitude, just press the "u" key and it reads the 
> update, "U" (Shift + u)  marks all newer packages automatically to be 
> updated, then press "g" and you will shwo, what it will do. Press "g" again, 
> and it will do the update.
> 
> 
> Please note: If you want to upgrade the whole sytem, then using apt or 
> apt-get will be the better choice!
> 
> 
> But aptitude is very well for installing single packages or weekly upgrades, 
> where not much packages will be renewed.
> 
> 
> If you are not much experienced, and you have a window-manager running like 
> KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE or another one, then look at synaptic. Synaptic is a 
> graphical tool for installing packages, it is a GUI for apt.
> 
> 
> Synaptic MUST run as root.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> By the way: I believe, you are not very experienced in English language, so I 
> suggest to suscribe in the fine German forum,
> 
> which is 
> debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org.
> 
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/
> 
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> 
> > Sorry
> 
> > it was my mistake
> 
> >
> 
> > It is
> 
> >
> 
> > su -
> 
> > su
> 
> > or sudo.
> 
> >
> 
> > Sorry.
> 
> >
> 
> > Is su -
> 
> > the best for install?
> 
> >
> 
> > Regards
> 
> >
> 
> > Sophie
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > 
> 
> >

Request for output of commands [WAS Re: AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Feb 07, 2024 at 02:15:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon
> 
> I did send the bugreport.
> 
> Thank You.
> Did anybody use the rescue mode?
> 
> Regards Sophie
> 
> 
> ____________
> Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Januar 2024 20:36
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org ; Schwibinger 
> Michael 
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 01:58:41PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon
> > I think
> > maybe Im sure
> > it is because of rescue mode.
> >
> Hi Sophie,
> 
> Once again: we need to you to show us what commands you run.
> 
> We need to see error messages.
> 
> if you cannot run sudo or su, we need you to run the id command
> as previously suggested.
> 

Where is the output of the id command?

The other message you quote suggests that you aren't in the sudo group

*Show the error messages*


> Also - please address requests first to the list and not to individuals -
> it makes it a lot easier to follow on the list.
> 

>From the output of my mailer: you sent first to me, copy to the list -
could you please do this the other way round as requested. It is more
important for the list to see this - and it also means that there is
no personal reply sent to the list by mistake: any personal reply is
intended as such.

> > Normal booting did not have this problem.
> >
> > Anybody familiar with panic?
> >

Yes: a (kernel) panic can have many causes: if you can give us meaningful
responses, we may be able to help. In the absence of these, you only
get guesses - wheich may or may not be helpful.

Again, as previously requested, please use meaningful subjects on your
emails so that we can deal with one issue at a time.

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)


> > Regards
> > Thank You
> > Sophie
> >
> Andy
> >
> > 
> > Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2024 18:40
> > An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > > Good afternoon
> > > Why do I have to open a group?
> > >
> >
> > This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
> > and sudo
> >
> > Running the
> >
> > id
> >
> > command should give you information like
> >
> > uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)
> >
> > which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the
> > machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
> > users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of su.
> >
> > /etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
> > Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
> > modified from Debian defaults)
> >
> > # User privilege specification
> > rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> >
> > # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
> > %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> >
> > # See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:
> >
> > @includedir /etc/sudoers.d
> > (END)
> >
> > If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
> > use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
> > (once) to add your user name to the group.
> >
> > For example: adduser sophie sudo
> >
> > I hope this helps
> >
> > > 2 years ago
> > > sudo was no problem.
> > >
> >
> > As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to
> > break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or
> > how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.
> >
> > Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
> > use their knowledge to help you.
> >
> > With every good wish, as ever,
> >
> > Andy
> > (amaca...@debian.org)
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Sophie
> > >
> > > Thank You
> > > 
> > > Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> > > Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> > > An: Schwibinger Michael 
> > > Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > > 
> > > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> > > mailto

FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 20240201)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

Codes of Conduct


* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
  
Guidelines for this list

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list should work:

Language


* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing
  lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french or
  debian-user-catalan

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

Answering questions and contributing to discussions constructively
==

* This is a fairly busy mailing list but even so you may have to wait some
  time for an answer - please be patient.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.
  
* It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list.
  
* Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
  a question before you - if so, you should not reply simply in order to get
  the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.

* Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
  welcome here. 

* Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments do not belong here
  either.

  Debian's community is world wide; do not assume others will agree with your
  views or need to read them on a Debian list.
  
Editing and answering mailing list posts


* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
  or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
  accordingly so that this can be clearly seen. 

  For example: New question [WAS Old topic]

* It may also be useful for someone to post a summary email from time to
  time to explain long threads.
  
* Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
  and scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.

* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread are much easier to
  read and follow than long threads.

* If you are replying to a post, please reply in-line if possible and 
  cut out extra text that is not relevant to your point.

Private replies and responding to posts off-list


* Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
  conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
  along on the list or reading the archives later.

* We're only human: you may want to respond to someone off-list
  to make a point (or to wish them Happy Birthday / comment that you
  haven't seen them for a long time). We're also a community and the
  people you find on the list may become familiar friends
  
  BUT

* Posting outside the list can be unhelpful: bad behaviour outside the lists 
  can't easily be dealt with and will be invisible. You may inadvertently leak
  personal information by posting a private reply back to the list.

  If you *do* want to post outside the list - make it clear that you have done
  so at the top of the message. If someone replies to you privately and you
  think that this should go back to the list - ask them to post it to the list
  - do not just do so on their behalf without checking.

I can't see what I want here - help me!
===

* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
  you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
  else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

* Although there are only 20 or 30 regular contributors, there may
  be a couple of thousand readers in the background. Nobody is
  a mind reader, nobody can sit beside you. Please help by providing
  useful details if asked, especially which version of Debian you are
  running.
  
I'm not using Debian but ...


* Strictly, discussions of other distributions are off-topic here.
  Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian will be
  only our best guess - other distributions may do things very differently.
  Any advice given accordingly may be inaccurate but is given in good faith.

FAQ topics
==

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

This is a public list, archived in many places

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 20240201)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

Codes of Conduct


* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
  
Guidelines for this list

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list should work:

Language


* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing
  lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french or
  debian-user-catalan

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

Answering questions and contributing to discussions constructively
==

* This is a fairly busy mailing list but even so you may have to wait some 
  time for an answer - please be patient.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.
  
* It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list.
  
* Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
  a question before you - if so, you should not reply simply in order to get
  the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.

* Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
  welcome here. 

* Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments do not belong here
  either. 

  Debian's community is world wide; do not assume others will agree with your
  views or need to read them on a Debian list.
  
Editing and answering mailing list posts


* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
  or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
  accordingly so that this can be clearly seen. 

  For example: New question [WAS Old topic]

* It may also be useful to for someone to post a summary email from time to
  time to explain long threads.
  
* Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
  and scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.

* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread are much easier to
  read and follow than long threads.

* If you are replying to a post, please reply in-line if possible and 
  cut out extra text that is not relevant to your point.

Private replies and responding to posts off-list


* Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
  conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
  along on the list or reading the archives later.

* We're only human: you may want to respond to someone off-list
  to make a point (or to wish them Happy Birthday / comment that you
  haven't seen them for a long time). We're also a community
  
  BUT

* Posting outside the list can be unhelpful: bad behaviour outside the lists 
  can't easily be dealt with and will be invisible. You may inadvertently leak
  personal information by posting a private reply back to the list.

  If you *do* want to post outside the list - make it clear that you have done
  so at the top of the message. If someone replies to you privately and you
  think that this should go back to the list - ask them to post it to the list
  - do not just do so on their behalf without checking.

I can't see what I want here - help me!
===

* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
  you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
  else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

* Although there are only 20 or 30 regular contributors, there may
  be a couple of thousand readers in the background. Nobody is
  a mind reader, nobody can sit beside you. Please help by providing
  useful details if asked, especially which version of Debian you are
  running.
  
I'm not using Debian but ...


* Strictly, discussions of other distributions are off-topic here.
  Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian will be
  only our best guess - other distributions may do things very differently.
  Any advice given accordingly may be inaccurate but is given in good faith.

FAQ topics
==

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

This is a public list, archived in many places
==

* One question that 

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 01:58:41PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
> I think
> maybe Im sure
> it is because of rescue mode.
> 
Hi Sophie,

Once again: we need to you to show us what commands you run.

We need to see error messages.

if you cannot run sudo or su, we need you to run the id command
as previously suggested.

We have literally nothing of use from you to help any of us problem
solve. This is throwing good effort away in persuading you to help us.

Also - please address requests first to the list and not to individuals -
it makes it a lot easier to follow on the list.

> Normal booting did not have this problem.
> 
> Anybody familiar with panic?
> 
> Regards
> Thank You
> Sophie
> 
Andy
> 
> ________
> Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2024 18:40
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon
> > Why do I have to open a group?
> >
> 
> This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
> and sudo
> 
> Running the
> 
> id
> 
> command should give you information like
> 
> uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)
> 
> which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the
> machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
> users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of su.
> 
> /etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
> Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
> modified from Debian defaults)
> 
> # User privilege specification
> rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> 
> # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
> %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> 
> # See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:
> 
> @includedir /etc/sudoers.d
> (END)
> 
> If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
> use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
> (once) to add your user name to the group.
> 
> For example: adduser sophie sudo
> 
> I hope this helps
> 
> > 2 years ago
> > sudo was no problem.
> >
> 
> As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to
> break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or
> how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.
> 
> Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
> use their knowledge to help you.
> 
> With every good wish, as ever,
> 
> Andy
> (amaca...@debian.org)
> > Regards
> >
> > Sophie
> >
> > Thank You
> > 
> > Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> > Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> > An: Schwibinger Michael 
> > Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > 
> > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> > mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > Thank You
> > Example
> > I say
> >
> > sudo apt-get install firefox
> > Reaction LINUX
> > This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
> >
> > This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.
> >
> > Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
> > groups
> >
> > Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will need 
> > to run it as root.
> > usermod -a -G sudo 
> >
> > I do open root terminal
> > there its working.
> > Regards
> > Sophie
> >
> > 
> > Von: Greg Wooledge mailto:g...@wooledge.org>>
> > Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
> > An: debian-user@lists.debian.org<mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org> 
> > mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
> > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > > Good afternoon.
> > > Root terminal is fine.
> > > What do I do wrong?
> > > What did I destroy?
> > >
> > > PC does have only one user=admin.
> > >
> > > Regards Sophie
> > > Is it the rescue mode?
> >
> > Explain, please.
> >
> > Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?
> >
> > Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
> &g

Re: Debian/Xen on ARM: How to identify source of an unhandled SMC call during boot?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 08:02:47AM +0100, Paul Leiber wrote:
> Am 25.01.2024 um 22:28 schrieb Paul Leiber:
> > 
> > Paul
> > 
> > [1]
> > https://lists.xenproject.org/archives/html/xen-devel/2023-10/msg00796.html
> > [2] https://developer.arm.com/documentation/den0098/latest/
> > [3] 
> > https://documentation-service.arm.com/static/628b755ce3c4322a76af56de?token=
> > 
> 
> Hm, no reply so far. Is this maybe the wrong list? Should I post this rather
> somewhere else?
> 
> Paul
>

debian-arm / OFTC IRC #debian-arm or #debian-raspberrypi

Xen in Debian is team maintained, I think, but many people have moved
away from Xen in favour of other virtualisation/paravirtualisation
solutions and containers.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org) 

Re: Debian:12.4/stable [amd64] ...

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Jan 27, 2024 at 02:32:57PM +, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> apt-get installation logs (in --dry-run mode) show lines like:
> ...
> Inst libvncclient1 (0.9.14+dfsg-1 Debian:12.4/stable [amd64])
> Inst vlc-bin (3.0.20-0+deb12u1 Debian:12.4/stable [amd64])
> Inst vlc-plugin-qt (3.0.20-0+deb12u1 Debian:12.4/stable [amd64])
> ...
> you can get most parts of the suffix: "Debian:12.4/stable [amd64]", in
> various way except the ".4" and the "stable" parts.
> 
> How could you get, list those ".4" and "stable" attributes prior to
> running apt-get?
> 
> lbrtchx
>
Hi Albretch (and every time I see that I want to write Albrecht, sorry)

I am consistently *puzzled* by what you are trying to do: I think that
that is just effectively recording the repository that the package comes
from. What does your /etc/sources.list consist of - and if it references
bookworm, in what way does 12.4 surprise you? (Hint: That will change
in about two weeks to 12.5 ...)

Your approach to all of this is best described as idiosyncratic - if
you really don't trust Debian and apt and the way we do things, what
*do* you trust?

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
> Why do I have to open a group?
> 

This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
and sudo

Running the 

id

command should give you information like

uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)

which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the 
machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of su.

/etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
modified from Debian defaults)

# User privilege specification
rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
%sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:

@includedir /etc/sudoers.d
(END)

If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
(once) to add your user name to the group.

For example: adduser sophie sudo

I hope this helps

> 2 years ago
> sudo was no problem.
> 

As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to 
break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or 
how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.

Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
use their knowledge to help you.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
> Regards
> 
> Sophie
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> An: Schwibinger Michael 
> Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> 
> Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Thank You
> Example
> I say
> 
> sudo apt-get install firefox
> Reaction LINUX
> This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
> 
> This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.
> 
> Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
> groups
> 
> Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will need to 
> run it as root.
> usermod -a -G sudo 
> 
> I do open root terminal
> there its working.
> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> 
> Von: Greg Wooledge mailto:g...@wooledge.org>>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
> Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon.
> > Root terminal is fine.
> > What do I do wrong?
> > What did I destroy?
> >
> > PC does have only one user=admin.
> >
> > Regards Sophie
> > Is it the rescue mode?
> 
> Explain, please.
> 
> Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?
> 
> Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
> results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
> window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
> body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
> typed it, and the full output.
> 
> In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.
> 
> In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
> of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
> logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
> for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
> that might be relevant.
> 
> How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?
> 
> When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
> leave it blank?
> 
> Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
> arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
> command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

Re: Is 12.4 safe, or should I wait for 12.5?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:52:04AM -0800, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> I updated my main machine to Bookworm (12.2, kernel 6.1.0.13-amd64)
> some time ago and it's running well.  My laptop, and the media box in
> the living room, are still running Bullseye.  I was about to update
> them when I read the fuss about EXT4 file system corruption.  At first
> I got the impression that this happened in 12.4, but further digging
> suggests that the bug was in 12.3, fixed in 12.4.  Is this the case,
> or should I wait for 12.5 before updating my other machines?
> 
> Just looking for re-assurance before I take the plunge.
> 
> -- 
> /~\  Charlie Gibbs  |  "Some of you may die,
> \ /|  but it's a sacrifice
>  X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus |  I'm willing to make."
> / \  if you read it the right way.  |-- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
>

Depends if you want to wait for three weeks. If you install with 12.4 then the
install process should install 6.1.0-17 by the time you complete the install
and reboot, assumiing that you are connected to the 'net.

It's not a problem. 12.3 was stopped because of file corruption, 12.4 was 
fixed.For some machines, that caused Wifi issues but only a few. The current 
Debian
kernel should *just work*

All the very best,

Andy 

Problem booting the Debian machine [WAS Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 02:30:43PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
> I destroyed DEBIAN
> now 2 years agon.
> I asked here for help
> no solution.
> So every morning
> I interrupt booting
> change to rescue mode.
> 
> "Normal" booting does create panic.
> 
> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> PC
> accident happened after update to DEBIAN 11.
> 

Hi Sophie,

We are asking you questions because we can't see you, we can't see 
what you type, we need clear information.

It's like playing chess by post: every time we ask for details
on what you have - what has happened, how the pieces are laid
out - we get an "I have a chess problem" message.

In your reply, please try and answer each of the questions
written below *under* the question so it is clear. If you only have
a phone to reply, that's OK, but please reply to one question
at a time in that case.

Please try and keep to the subject of the message. I have changed
that to "Problem booting the machine" I expect your reply to be
something like AW: Problem booting the machine

First - and most important question - is this your only computer?

If so, I would not want to break it further but in order to fix it,
we will need more information.

Second question - is this the computer that you mail us from to this list
or are you using some other device to mail us?

Your reply above has given more information: this happened after
you upgraded from Debian 10 to Debian 11. 

Third question - Even if it's now more than two years ago: can you
remember whether the upgrade completed successfully?

Fourth question -Is it that when the computer starts - and you get a
(blue or green??) first screen with white writing, it lists 
several kernels to choose from?
 
Fifth question - If you have only one kernel listed, then under that may be
a "rescue" option - is that what you use to boot the machine every
day?

If so, then *what do you type* to get into the system: what commands?

Sixth question - One line may list the Debian 11 kernel version -
with 5.10 - or may list the Debian 10 kernel version - with 4.19
Which do you select  / which one works?

Thank you in advance for your replies

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
> 

> 

Re: iscrizioni lista

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Esiste una lista debian-italian. Vedi anche 
https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/index.it.html

Buon anno anche a te

[There is also a Debian-italian list. See also MailingLists page]

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org

Re: File has unexpected size (x != y). Mirror sync in progress? [IP: ...] ...

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Jan 19, 2024 at 03:22:52PM +, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 1/19/24, Max Nikulin  wrote:
> > Precise steps
> > depend on degree of your paranoia.
> 
>  ... and mine is of the totally irrevocable, even joyful kind; so,
> where are the steps?
> 
>  I have always believe that Debian’s basic assumptions about using the
> Internet as a relatively secure, “private” venue are definitely more
> worryingly irrational than my paranoia.
> 
>  I think at some point I will have to learn more about Debian’s apt
> utility. Any documentation you would suggest explaining it all from
> the protocoled structure of deb packages to the various installation
> procedures depending on degree of paranoia? When I learn something I
> like to learn all of it.
> 

What aspect? apt sits on top of package dependencies, package signing,
package validation ...

And apt succeeds / parallels aptitude and apt-get. Apt-get succeeded dselect
which superseded dpkg commands. The base is still dpkg and keeping track
of package dependencies in some sense.

All the very best,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
Where do you _actually_ want to start

>  I tend to only mind what I am working on. I would just use an
> unexposed computer and/or do things by hand/on paper if possible, but
> you can’t do algorithmic simulations and tests by hand.
> 
>  lbrtchx
> 
> On 1/19/24, Max Nikulin  wrote:
> > On 18/01/2024 12:45, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> >> On 1/14/24, Max Nikulin wrote:
> >>> Generally just pay attention that GPG keys for repositories are obtained
> >>> through trusted channels.
> >>
> >>   How do you functionally (that is, give me the step-by-step command
> >> line statements, ... in order to) do that?
> >
> > Verify installation (or live) image to have initial keyring
> >
> > https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/uobl6l$i21$1...@ciao.gmane.io
> > Re: Correction to last message for Debian 11 and Debian 12. Thu, 18 Jan
> > 2024 23:55:48 +0700.
> >
> > Optionally install necessary keyring packages.
> >
> > When adding a third-party repository, evaluate that GPG key you are
> > going to add really belongs to repository maintainers. Precise steps
> > depend on degree of your paranoia.
> 

Re: Correction to last message for Debian 11 and Debian 12

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 10:31:40PM +, Jeff Jennings wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> After a couple of decades of using various Linux distributions, I've been on 
> Debian 10 for some years. I like it a lot!
> 
> Recently, I decided to download Debian 12.4 and was alarmed to notice that 
> Debian 12 downloads are no longer through https connections.
> 

Hi Jeff,

The most obvious place to me to start with a Debian download - if I
were brand new to this - would be www.debian.org front page.

It's been reorganised - there's a prominent Download link which points
to the amd64 netinst image. That's served via https from cdimage.debian.org.
All the downloads linked off Other downloads are also https links.

> In addition, I installed 12.4 and discovered that the post installation 
> repository links are non-free only. Also, two of the largest corporate 
> entities are evident within desktop notifications, prior to any updates to 
> the operating system.

Did you read the release notes? As others have pointed out, Debian is now
supplying non-free firmware by default so that your device has up to date
firmware. That was the subject of a General Resolution. The repository
that it adds contains _only_ firmware: it doesn't add other software 
that would have been in non-free. That repository still exists independently.

The medium you install from is almost exactly equivalent to the old 
"unofficial" installer in that respect which also contained firmware.
> 

If you install with a machine that has a network connection, the
base install process brings you up to date: your operating system is
updated prior to reboot at the end of the install.

If you install Gnome, then yes, there are steps in the first run
of Gnome that allow you to set up corporate accounts. Note: the
default is to skip these. That's not Debian specific - that's upstream
Gnome and works the same way on other Linux distributions.

> Then, I tried 11.8 and was able to download on https link. However, after 
> installing the operating system, the repository links are non-free only. 
> Also, the desktop notifications have an obvious presence of one of the 
> largest corporations.
The 11.8 images are *exactly* as they were: they don't include firmware.
The "unofficial" image is still there for those who can't install without
firmware e.g. some wifi or the need for sound for visually impaired users
to install.
> 
> It appears that after Debian 10, the corporate takeover of open source 
> software is in play.
> 

No - Debian still remains non-commercial and we're all volunteers.

> It's not that I'm unwilling to download from contrib or obviously non-free 
> sources, but it's clear that Debian is no longer the "complete free" 
> operating system. It was a lot better experience to be able to run Debian 
> without non-free sources, and then to decide whether or not to download 
> non-free drivers or packages.

Editing your sources list is still open to you during the install. 
For 12.4, firmware *is* offered by default - which allows install over WiFi
/ with sound for problematic cases - but the release notes also note 
how to disable that check such that your machine is not installed with
appropriate firmware.
> 
> Consequently, I've decided to keep using 10.13 until I can find a different 
> Linux distribution that is still completely free.
> 

You have until 30th June 2024 to reconcile your choices before you lose 
long term support for 10.13. As you're aware: there's no update process
that will allow you to skip releases so if you update from there, you'll
need to go through 11 to 12.

The next point release of Debian 11 and Debian 12.5 is likely to be in
early February.

> Please find a way to restore the integrity of open-source software 
> distributions.
> 

That's a *much* wider topic for another day, perhaps: this list can only
really discuss Debian :)

> Thank you for your time.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Jeff Jennings

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: Problem with sound disappearing

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 10:16:12PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 16/01/2024 13:04, Maureen Thomas wrote:
> > My sound has been working just fine the day before that.  Now nothing.
> 
> Have a look into PipeWire articles in ArchLinux and Debian wiki.
>

This certainly. It's also relatively easy to mute a Mozilla window
and not notice - Ctrl-M should mute/unmute - or clicking on the 
speaker icon in the appropriate tab.

[I say this as someone who was significantly caught out by this
recently - it's too easy to miss and spend 1/2 hour trying to 
work out what's gone wrong. In my case, it was a video call
where the other participants know me well enough not to make
fun of my efforts :) ]

All the very best,

Andy 

Re: Debian in HPC

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 08:03:36AM +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
> Stuart Barkley  writes:
> 
> > I think some places are moving to Ubuntu.  The thought is that Ubuntu
> > keeps more up to date with software.  I preferred to keep the OS
> > minimal and build the user software independently since there usually
> > were complex dependencies and Debian should be fine in that case.
> >

> >
> > On January 6, 2024 4:04:51 PM UTC, "Andrew M.A. Cater" 
> >  wrote:
> >>Michael: This discussion has also been taking place periodically in
> >>the main Beowulf lists over at Beowulf.org (https://www.beowulf.org)
> >>
> >>See, for example, their archives from May-November 2023 for the thread.
> >>
> >>For anyone interested in HPC, I commend the Beowulf list - very small
> >>numbers of extremely motivated, extremely competent people.
> >>
> >>(amaca...@debian.org)
 
> Thanks for the info - I'll have a look at the beowulf.org list.
> 
> Personally I can't see Ubuntu being a viable option.  For HPC I don't
> see any advantage regarding software relative to Debian.
> 

As ever, it depends. It also depends on the vendor who made your HPC
if you bought it from somewhere like HPE/Cray.

The secret sauce is in the detail of interconnects and device drivers:
Canonical is a commercial company and can afford to deal with NDA
/ special terms and conditions or whatever it takes to get an
Ubuntu system running well on HPC - it can build closed-source
modules if need be.

If you're in academia, then the fact that Ubuntu has the PPA system
to install latest/greatest/(maybe broken) software that's newer
than stable versions might be useful - some astrophysicist
programmer somewhere publishes his program as a PPA so you *need*
Ubuntu.

Also: an HPC is an expensive beast - accountants want someone to sue
if it melts :)

Ironically, maybe the one thing you don't need is paid distro support
because you have your own sysadmin/programmers sitting running the thing
and when you ring $Big_commercial_distro with a problem, they don't know
HPC.

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
(who has been interested from the sidelines in HPC for many years
- I could probably play a sysadmin on TV :) )

> Cheers,
> 
> Loris
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Loris Bennett (Herr/Mr)
> FUB-IT (ex-ZEDAT), Freie Universität Berlin
> 

Re: Fact finding / clarification [WAS Re: Re: smartctl cannot access mystorage, need syntax help]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 12:04:58PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 1/14/24 06:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > Hi Gene,
> > 
> > There's a whole series of long threads which loop through several
> > subjects - I can tease out a couple of things.
> > 
> > 1.) You have one large deskside machine - large enough that it's tough
> > to lift or move - which is used for many things.
> Correct, a one size fits all machine.

OK. That much at least is understood :)
> > 
> > 2.) You've added various drive controllers and various drives over a
> > period.
> 
> Correct.
> 
> > Unclear: At least one of your RAID devices may be mixed between on
> > motherboard connections and on-card drive controller connections??
> No, I boot from /dev/sda, a 1T samsung 870 SSD plugged into the motherboards
> sata which has 6 ports

OK. I'd suggest you plug this into the *first* SATA port on the motherboard,
maybe, and the CD/DVD drive (/dev/sr0) into the second on the motherboard.

> Because I didn't have 4 ports left for the raid, it on its own controller,
> one of 2 extra sata controllers currently plugged in. Both of the extra
> controlleres are just controllers, no raid in their pedigree, 1st extra has
> 6 ports, 2nd extra has 16 ports.
> > 

2a.) How many devices in the RAID in total?

2b.) How do you have these configured - what RAID configuration are
you looking to do in mdadm here?


> > 3.) You "lost" a RAID a while ago so you don't trust RAID on some devices
> > but you're persisting with RAIDs.
> No here, it was a pair of quite new 2T seagates that died and started this
> whole maryann. Lasted about a month from 1st powerup to going offline in the
> night with no warning about 3 weeks after 1st powerup. Lost everything back
> to about 2002. The only raid I've ever had is the current one, which
> smartctl was sending me emails about but not thru a normal chaanel, I only
> found them when I found a strange mbox file in my home dir. Last mail in the
> mbox file was dated Jan 7th of this year.
> But I've now sussed the smartctl syntax and all 4 drives of the raid say
> they are healthy.

If you have four drives in your RAID - maybe plug them up to channels
3-6 on your motherboard and remove the extra drive controllers?

That should simplify things mightily. mdadm will reassemble the RAID
appropriately.

> > 
> > 4.) You have various add in cards but you don't seem to know which RAID is
> > which / what's "locking" your filesystem / what's causing your problems.
> > 

OK. Possibly irrelevant given your reply below.

> > You now have a slow access to one/more of your RAID devices.
> Which from the very limited clues seems to be related to my original of of
> plasma for a desktop, with xfce4 on top of that. So I suspecting the problem
> might be mixed gui related. This lag or lockup, whatever you want to call it
> occurs for any app that opens a file requestor, there at least 30 seconds of
> this lag before the gui opens the requestor, at which point everything
> returns to normal. Failing ns reslution? I've NDI.  The lags are not logged
> anyplace I've managed to find a log to read.
> 
> > 5). Unclear: All / ("most"??) of those RAID devices are using Linux mdadm
> > rather than "RAID" supplied by the individual cards/controllers.
> 
> Correct.

OK - at least one more thing understood.
> 
> > Various of us - including myself - have suggested that you simplify things
> > / get another machine and divide up functionality. For various reasons
> > you can't / won't do that.
> 
> Mostly lack of space in this tiny childs bedroom to do that, over the last
> 35 years its best described as a midden heap. ;o)>
> 
> > Can you answer the questions I've posted above, please, to try
> > and clarify what you have. I would have asked you for /etc/fstab and
> > a couple of other files, but this is good enough to be going on with.
> Instant /etc/fstab:
> gene@coyote:/etc$ cat fstab
> # /etc/fstab: static file system information.
> #
> # Use 'blkid' to print the universally unique identifier for a
> # device; this may be used with UUID= as a more robust way to name devices
> # that works even if disks are added and removed. See fstab(5).
> #
> # systemd generates mount units based on this file, see systemd.mount(5).
> # Please run 'systemctl daemon-reload' after making changes here.
> #
> #
> # / was on /dev/sda1 during installation
> UUID=f295334b-fdcb-4428-bed3-cb9e9e129be6 /   ext4
> errors=remount-ro 0   1
> # /tmp was on /dev/sda3 during installation
> UUID=518cb65d-21f0-493f-8bb5-a5f435796991 /tmpext4 defaults
> 0   2
> # swap w

Fact finding / clarification [WAS Re: Re: smartctl cannot access my storage, need syntax help]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Hi Gene,

Frankly: Dealing with you over a mailing list can be very frustrating for
others trying to help (and especially for people trying to follow the list
who are reading the lists in the background and facing long, long threads).

You're not helping explain yourself well because the mails keep referring
to "other stuff that happened a while ago".

People ask to see mails / messages or whatever exactly because we can't
sit next to you, we can't see what you type, we can't see what you're 
meaning.

That's why well-meaning folk keep asking questions to try
and establish what's going on and get a sense of where we can help 
(if at all).

There's a whole series of long threads which loop through several 
subjects - I can tease out a couple of things.

1.) You have one large deskside machine - large enough that it's tough
to lift or move - which is used for many things.

2.) You've added various drive controllers and various drives over a 
period.

Unclear: At least one of your RAID devices may be mixed between on
motherboard connections and on-card drive controller connections??

3.) You "lost" a RAID a while ago so you don't trust RAID on some devices
but you're persisting with RAIDs.

4.) You have various add in cards but you don't seem to know which RAID is
which / what's "locking" your filesystem / what's causing your problems.

You now have a slow access to one/more of your RAID devices.

5). Unclear: All / ("most"??) of those RAID devices are using Linux mdadm
rather than "RAID" supplied by the individual cards/controllers.

Various of us - including myself - have suggested that you simplify things
/ get another machine and divide up functionality. For various reasons
you can't / won't do that.

Can you answer the questions I've posted above, please, to try
and clarify what you have. I would have asked you for /etc/fstab and
a couple of other files, but this is good enough to be going on with.

All the best, as ever,

Andy Cater
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: dmesg reporting lots of errors apparently emanating from a Realtek RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller ...

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Jan 09, 2024 at 04:50:28AM +, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 1/6/24, Albretch Mueller  wrote:
> >  I may not even have an NVMe card in my computer as the manufacturer
> > claims.
> 
>  My DELL Inspiron 5593 actually does have a M.2 512GB KIOXIA NVMe SSD,
> which I need to use! The problem, as I described here without getting
> a solution for it:
> 
> // __ I cannot change BIOS settings on my laptop?
> 
>  
> https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/i-cannot-change-bios-settings-on-my-laptop.3833102/
> ~

Where did the laptop come from? Some (few) ex-business laptops are sold
with a BIOS password set by an original owner, say, where the vendor
has reconditioned them but can't unlock the BIOS.

That is unusual: if the worst comes to the worst, just reflash the BIOS.

>  is that I can't access/change the BIOS settings on my own laptop to
> make the hdd work in AHCI mode, I think. I have also read that Debian
> Linux has problems operating such cards:
> 

Which operating system(s) do you have on this? Do you have a Windows 10 that
was preinstalled by someone? Dells have an annoying habit of installing
with the BIOS setting as RAID by default. if Windows or another operating
system is there and already installed, it may be that you can't modify it
while there's an OS using it, if you see what I mean. 

The same goes for a vendor installing Windows as Legacy/MBR - if you then
want to change to UEFI, it's easier just to reinstall the whole thing.

> https://superuser.com/questions/1502756/debian-not-detecting-nvme-asus-zenbook-ux430ua
> 
> I purchased a Dell XPS 8930 with an NVMe dirve. Debian and Fedora did
> not recognize the NVMe. I had to use Ubuntu 18.04 for the drive to be
> recognized. I'm not sure what Ubuntu is doing that Debian is not, but
> I suspect it has something to do with updates. Debian tends to stick
> with old and broken software. They will not upgrade for users. – jww
> Nov 23, 2019 at 4:28
> ~

That's a very old quote now ...

>  You may know how to deal with such problems, better than I do, since
> I don't tend to mind the intricate technical details about computer
> hardware, even though I understand well the physics in them.
> 

Can you get into the BIOS to change anything e.g. time settings or
default NumLock to check?

>  Every piece of computer hardware my paranoia uses seems to have a
> mind of its own. I have decided to not use computers (do all the
> writing by hand on paper), but the data processing and algorithmic
> basis of my paper I have to do on a computer.
> 
>  Any suggestions?
> 
>  lbrtchx
>

All best, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org) 

Re: Debian on Asus X205TA [Was: Re: Installing Debian on an old Asus EEE PC]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Jan 08, 2024 at 08:21:00AM +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 06.01.2024 um 17:44:41 Uhr schrieb Steve McIntyre:
> 
> > The amd64 installation media now includes the bits needed to start the
> > installer on mixed-mode UEFI systems like the Bay Trail platform in
> > the X205TA.
> 
> Is that documented anywhere?
> I haven't found any information on this.
> 
> The wiki only mentions multi-arch images.
> https://wiki.debian.org/UEFI#A32-bit_x86_PC_.28i386.29_support_for_UEFI
> 

This was in the release notes for Debian 12 at some point. I have fixed
the wiki, noting that as at 2023 there are almost no 32 bit machines
that boot UEFI and that the AMD64 media contains the appropriate software
for both 32 bit and 64 bit UEFI implementations.

All the best, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: systemd-timesyncd

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 07, 2024 at 02:51:26PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 1/7/24 10:48, Max Nikulin wrote:
> > On 07/01/2024 02:17, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> Is it supposed to be installed by the net-installer? There does not seem to
> be any man pages other than the bog std stuff. When I found the
> /etc/systemd/timesyncd I immediately asked the system for man timesyncd, got
> this:
> gene@coyote:/etc$ man timesyncd
> No manual entry for timesyncd
> 
> 
> What package contains the manpages for a bookworm amd64 install I expect to
> do anything I might want to do?
> 

apt install manpages (as noted in a message above earlier in the thread).

> Take care, stay warm, well, and unvaxed.
> ^^^

Gene - no partisan opinions, please, as per Code of Conduct?

All best, as ever,

Andy

> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> 

manpages package [WAS Re: SOLVED FOR GENE:Re: was: Re: tzdata-legacy [was: Re: systemd and timezone]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Jan 06, 2024 at 01:17:13PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> Try manpages.org .
> -- 
> John Hasler 
> j...@sugarbit.com
> Elmwood, WI USA
>

If you're on a Debian system, this should already be installed but otherwise

apt-get install manpages

Also - manpages.debian.org gives you a searchable interface to all the
Debian manpages.

All the best

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
 

Re: Re: Debian in HPC

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Michael: This discussion has also been taking place periodically in
the main Beowulf lists over at Beowulf.org (https://www.beowulf.org)

See, for example, their archives from May-November 2023 for the thread.

For anyone interested in HPC, I commend the Beowulf list - very small
numbers of extremely motivated, extremely competent people.

Disclaimer: I'm also an occasional contributor to discussions there -
and I first suggested that they use Debian rather than a Red Hat base
in about 1998 when Red Hat launched Extreme Linux :)

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: Debian on Asus X205TA [Was: Re: Installing Debian on an old Asus EEE PC]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Jan 06, 2024 at 10:46:56AM +0100, Leandro Noferini wrote:
> Hans  writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Most important: It can run all debian things (and more), but note, the
> > EEEPC is 32-bit, so you need the 32-bit version of debian.
> 
> In my Asus EEEPC (X205TA) the bios/uefi is 32 bit but the processor is
> 64 so you need only the grub 32 bit but the remaining of the operative
> system, including kernel, is 64 bit.
> 
> An example of guide: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ASUS_x205ta
> 
> --
> Ciao
> leandro
>

Debian's amd64 install media should deal with this properly now.

The appropriate files are there to do this - whereas once upon a time
it would have been multi-arch.

Fixed by Steve McIntyre a while ago.

Andy 

Name calling? [WAS: Re: The current package wpasupplicant doesn't support WPA3-Personal authentication. What alternatives to it exist?]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Jan 04, 2024 at 12:28:56AM +0100, Stella Ashburne wrote:
> 
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2024 at 7:13 AM
> > From: "Bret Busby" 
> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > Subject: Re: The current package wpasupplicant doesn't support 
> > WPA3-Personal authentication. What alternatives to it exist?
> >

> >
> And you fail to see that the sub-heading contradicts the contents of the 
> package's description.
> 
> >  From the text that I quoted from that web page,
> >
> > "wpa-supplicant is a userspace daemon handling connection and
> > authentication in wireless and wired networks, primarily secured with
> > the WPA/WPA2/WPA3 protocols"
> >
> > If all else fails, read the words in front of you.
> 
> Being at least three decades younger than you, my eye sight is far superior 
> to yours. You most probably are suffering from presbyopia but that's OK 
> because it's normal for senior citizens.
> 
> 
> 

Possibly being older than you, Stella - and wearing varifocals now - there's
still no good justification for being sarcastic about folk who are trying 
to be helpful on this list.

Was it really only _yesterday_ that I posted a refactored FAQ document
asking people to be constructive and considerate? 

My old man's sense of time must be defective (I'll be 62 in a couple of
weeks and I've only worn corrective vision glasses for the last 58 years)
> 

Please don't jump to conclusions about people's physical or mental
capabilities unless it's germane - it's unhelpful and doesn't contribute
either helpfully or meaningfully to discussion.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
> 

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 20240102)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

A Debian resource - Codes of Conduct


* The list is a Debian communication forum hosted on Debian resources.
  As such, it is subject to both  the Debian mailing list Code of
  Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct.
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
  
Guidelines for this list

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list should work:

Language


* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other
  mailing lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french
  or debian-user-catalan.

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

Answering questions and contributing to discussions constructively
==

* This is a fairly busy mailing list but even so you may have to wait some
  time for an answer - please be patient.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.
  
* It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list.
  
* Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
  a question before you - if so, you should not reply simply in order to
  get the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.

* Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
  welcome here. 

* Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments do not belong here 
  either. Debian's community is world wide; do not assume others will agree
  with your views or need to read them on a Debian list.
  
Editing and answering mailing list posts


* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
  or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
  accordingly so that this can be clearly seen. 

  For example: New question [WAS Old topic]

* It may also be useful for someone to post a summary email from time to
  time to explain long threads.
  
* Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
  and to scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.

* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread are much easier to
  read and follow than long threads.

* If you are replying to a post, please reply in-line if possible and cut
  extra text that is not relevant to your point, showing that you have done.
  so.

Private replies and responding to posts off-list


* Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
  conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
  along on the list or reading the archives later.

* We're only human: you may want to respond to someone off-list
  to make a point (or to wish them Happy Birthday / comment that you
  haven't seen them for a long time). We're also a community and
  the people you find on the list become familiar friends
  
  BUT

* Posting outside the list can be unhelpful: bad behaviour outside the lists 
  can't easily be dealt with and will be invisible. You may inadvertently
  leak personal information by posting a private reply back to the list.

  If you do want to post outside the list for any reason - please make it
  clear that you have done so at the top of the message. If someone replies
  to you privately and you think that this should go back to the list - ask
  them to post it back to the list and do not just post it on their behalf
  without checking with them.

I can't see what I want here - help me!
===

* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
  you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
  else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

* Although there are only twenty or thirty regular contributors, there may
  be a couple of thousand readers following the list in the background.
  Nobody is a  mind reader, nobody can sit beside you and see what you
  see.  Please help the rest of us by providing useful details if asked,
  especially which version of Debian you are running.

Problem solving
===

* If you hit problems with Debian, please don't blindly follow advice
  that you find on the Internet. Please DO stop, note what you think
  you've done and, if possible, take a note of the cirucmstances and
  commands you have run that have got you to this point.
  If you have been researching solutions, it may be useful to 

Re: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 20240101)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

Codes of Conduct


* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
  
Guidelines for this list

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list should work:

Language


* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing
  lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french or
  debian-user-cat

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

Answering questions and contributing to discussions constructively
==

* This is a fairly busy mailing list but even so you may have to wait some time 
  for an answer - please be patient.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.
  
* It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list.
  
* Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
  a question before you - if so, you should not reply simply in order to get
  the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.

* Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
  welcome here. 

* Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments do not belong here 
either. 
  Debian's community is world wide; do not assume others will agree with your
  views or need to read them on a Debian list.
  
Editing and answering mailing list posts


* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
  or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
  accordingly so that this can be clearly seen. 

  For example: New question [WAS Old topic]

* It may also be useful to for someone to post a summary email from time to
  time to explain long threads.
  
* Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
  and scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.

* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread are much easier to
  read and follow than long threads.

* If you are replying to a post, please reply in-line if possible and cut extra
  text that is not relevant to your point.

Private replies and responding to posts off-list


* Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
  conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
  along on the list or reading the archives later.

* We're only human: you may want to respond to someone off-list
  to make a point (or to wish them Happy Birthday / comment that you
  haven't seen them for a long time). We're also a community
  
  BUT

* Posting outside the list can be unhelpful: bad behaviour outside the lists 
  can't easily be dealt with and will be invisible. You may inadvertently leak
  personal information by posting a private reply back to the list.

  If you *do* want to post outside the list - make it clear that you have done
  so at the top of the message. If someone replies to you privately and you
  think that this should go back to the list - ask them to post it to the list
  do not just do so on their behalf without checking.

I can't see what I want here - help me!
===

* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
  you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
  else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

* Although there are only 20 or 30 regular contributors, there may
  be a couple of thousand readers in the background. Nobody is
  a mind reader, nobody can sit beside you. Please help by providing
  useful details if asked, especially which version of Debian you are
  running.
  
I'm not using Debian but ...


* Strictly, discussions of other distributions are off-topic here.
  Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian will be
  only our best guess - other distributions may do things very differently.
  Any advice given accordingly  may be inaccurate but is given in good faith.

FAQ topics
==

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

This is a public list, archived in many places
==

* One question that comes up on 

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 20231216)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:

* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing
  lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

* It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list.

* Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
  a question before you - if so, you should not reply in order to get
  the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.

* Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
   and scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.

* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread may be much easier to
  read than long threads.

* This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
  answer - please be patient.

* Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
  conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
  along on the list or reading the archives later.

* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
  or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on the email
  accordingly.

* It may also be useful to for someone to post a summary email from time to
  time to explain long threads.

* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
  you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
  else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.

* Strictly, discussions of other distributions are off-topic here.
  Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian will be
  only our best guess - other distributions may do things very differently.
  Any advice given accordingly  may be inaccurate but is given in good faith.

* Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
  welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
  do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; do not
  assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
  Debian list.

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

* One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time
  is of the form:

  "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
   Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"

Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived, potentially
cached by Google and so on.

Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure that all copies
anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may only serve to
draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Problems?
=

Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
Debian Community Team .

Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings: repeated bad
behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

Re: Firefox Warning [SOLVED]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 03:01:07PM -0500, Cindy Sue Causey wrote:
> On 12/27/23, Tixy  wrote:
> > On Wed, 2023-12-27 at 11:05 -0600, Mike McClain wrote:
> >> If I recall correctly, Firefox used to have a checkbox in the
> >> preferences to permit or deny auto updates. In this version 121.0 for
> >> the Raspberry PI, that's no longer so and I'm quite sure that FF
> >> updated itself without asking.
> >

All bets are off ... not Debian, potentially


> 
> Something still doesn't sound right. I've got that 121 off the Mozilla
> website. It has to wait for my intervention. It complains that it does
> not have permission to install each progressive update. In my beady
> little brain, that's how it should be for safety's sake.
> 

Standard disclaimers apply: other people and distributions do things
differently. Raspberry Pi OS != Debian. 

> That said, I know that there are circumstances where the User can only
> untar/install that outside package under something like
> /home/user/(.)local. Number One reason would be the User does not have
> any admin/root permissions.
> 

> If that was the case, Mozilla would probably be able to silently run
> all the updates it wants in the background. If that tar file was
> untarred as root instead, Mozilla... can't touch this.
> 

How do you know? You don't control what's provided ... in this instance,
you are probably right.

> The only other thing I can think of, and that I hate to have to type,
> is virus so I hope it's "just" something about the permissions level
> when the package is installed. Permissions would explain one part of
> what happened. I'm going to respond to the other part in a few.. That
> toolbar thing is a party of two
> 

Virus unlikely - flatpak / snap or any other packaging for Mozilla 
could do anything ... I suspect it's just an artefact of downloading
the Mozilla site version rather than the Debian ESR version.

> Cindy :)
> -- 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
> Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
> * runs with birdseed *
> 

Re: problem with Jami

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 05:36:42PM +0100, s...@gmx.com wrote:
> i try to install jami on Debian from apt..but i have this problem...
> 
> 
> jami-daemon : Dipende: libjsoncpp24 (>= 1.9.4) ma non è installabile
>    Dipende: libyaml-cpp0.6 (>= 0.6.2) ma non è installabile
>  libqt-jami : Dipende: libavformat58 (>= 7:4.2) ma non è installabile
>   Dipende: libicu67 (>= 67.1-1~) ma non è installabile
>   Dipende: libswscale5 (>= 7:4.0) ma non è installabile
>   Dipende: libtiff5 (>= 4.0.3) ma non è installabile
> 
> these dependencies cannot be resolved
> and cannot be installed
> it's a problem of Debian?
> what can I do?
>

Exactly *what* errors do you get when you try to install - can you, for
example, install just libtiff5 in the version you want and work from 
there (divide the problem)?

Have you tried apt-get -f install jami ?

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy

(amaca...@debian.org) 

Re: No alsa, no alsactl in bookworm distribution?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 09:56:54AM -0500, Thomas George wrote:
> No sound.
> 
> alsamixer shows card HDA Intel PCH but no driver list.
> 
>  pulseaudio volume control output shows no signal.
> 
> What am I missing?
>

Check to see whether you actually have pulseaudio installed or whether
you now have pipewire.

Do you have firmware enabled for Intel - maybe the sof - see release
notes about non-free firmware.

That's a start :) 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy

[amaca...@debian.org]

Re: how to clone apt repository to newest only?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 04:49:13PM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 December 2023 09:34:00 am Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > Living offline is not really feasible anymore - there are too many security
> > updates needed.
> (snip)
> > Linux distributions do update and you should ideally be running the latest
> > most up to date security patches. 
> 
> I must be missing something here.  If one is running a system that's NOT 
> net-connected,  why is security so important an issue?
> 

You always have to hope that it remains not connected :)

Remembering that each point update introduces fixes which may clear
previous problems, it is always worth keeping the system up to date.

Given the inadvertent upstream kernel problems we gained during the 12.3
release which resulted in 12.4 and that we then needed 12.5 relatively
immediately to solve problems that some users had - if you'd _only_ 
had the 12.4 medium, you might have had problems which could only have
been fixed by being net connected to pick up the appropriate kernel.

Just because you have a (relatively) isolated system doesn't mean that
your system shouldn't be consistent, patched and up to date which will
allow you to be sure that known vulnerabilites have been addressed.

There's nothing like the joy of inheriting a system tucked away somewhere
that hasn't been updated or rebooted in five years and not knowing what
you might expect when logging in, what services are running or what will
happen if you have to reboot. Marginally better because you know about it
then finding the system that everything depends on is undocumented,
running on a system with dead disks in the RAID and that has just
been bounced by the unscheduled power outage when the UPS failed ..

> -- 
> Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
> ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
> be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
> -

Sounds like a project manager imposing random requirements :)

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater
(amaca...@debian.org)

> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
> M Dakin
> 

Re: how to clone apt repository to newest only?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 10:19:26PM +0900, 이강우(KangWoo Lee) wrote:
> The reason I'm asking for this feature is that
> 
> For example, I want to install the most recent packages when installing an
> OS in a specific closed network environment.
> 
> Of course, I could use a recently created DVD iso file, but I would need to
> have an internet connection to apply files that have been updated since
> this ISO was created, so I only want to copy and apply the most recent
> packages.
> 
> Is there any way to do this?
> 
> 

OK - this is a little harder to explain :)

Living offline is not really feasible anymore - there are too many security
updates needed.
.
If you really want to live in a closed network environment - you can't really
do that with DNF either. If you're using Red Hat proper, then Red Hat will
normally expect you to run an Internet connected Satellite server.

Linux distributions do update and you should ideally be running the latest
most up to date security patches. Debian produces updates pretty well
every day for one package or another. The default settings for apt in 
Debian include a line for debian-security for just this reason.

Approximately once every two months, we produce a point release for Debian
stable which will pull together package fixes and security updates up to that
point from the state of the previous point release. We do produce media that
will give you just those updates to apply to a running system - almost nobody
does this, and the update media itself is rarely, if ever, tested - it is
used by very few people, if any.

If you were installing a system today - 26th December - you could install
from the base media released as part of Debian 12.4 - but there were almost
immediate updates provided in stable-updates to deal with kernel issues, for
example.

Those wouldn't be on the media until 12.5 which is currently being discussed
to take place in February 2025. At that point, we will have new media - and
the smaller update media to allow you to update from 12.4.

The canonical way to do disconnected mirroring is to have a Debian mirror
connected to the Internet somewhere and to allow that to do daily updates.
You can then take the daily updates and gateway them into your closed network
(or disconnect the mirror from the Internet and allow it to connect to an
"internal" copy of the mirror before disconnecting the "external-allowed"
copy and reconnecting it to the Internet.)

The Debian suggested mirroring scripts use rsync and produce logs so it
is not difficult to extract daily updates.

Setting up a full Debian mirror is not particularly hard - all architectures
with a mirror of Debian CD images will fit within 6TB or so.
I wrote up some outline instructions on a blog syndicated to Planet
Debian, for example: 
http://flosslinuxblog.blogspot.com/2020/02/rebuilding-mirror-software-mirroring-of.html
 

Note, I have rearranged the addresses on this reply so that it goes first
to the debian-user mailing list. Follow up to the list, please.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater

[amaca...@debian.org]
> 
> 
> 2023년 12월 25일 (월) 오후 11:05, Andrew M.A. Cater 님이 작성:
> 
> > On Mon, Dec 25, 2023 at 12:21:29PM +, ��  wrote:
> > [Copied to the poster because they may not be subscribed]
> >
> > > how to clone apt repository to newest only?
> > > Fedora/Red Hat will organize the repository by copying only the most
> > recent packages from that distribution if you give it the "reposync
> > --newest-only" option, but Debian doesn't seem to be able to do that.
> > >
> > > What can I do?
> > >
> > >
> > Hi
> >
> > By default, apt will check the dates on the package manifests and bring you
> > up to date based on that.
> >
> > If you install from nothing then the installer will do the same assuming
> > that you have an internet connection.
> >
> > reposync is really a Red Hat ecosystem specific command, I think.
> >
> > (already answered on the list: can I suggest that you subscribe to the
> > list)
> >
> > Andy
> > (amaca...@debian.org)
> >
> >

Re: how to clone apt repository to newest only?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Dec 25, 2023 at 12:21:29PM +, ��  wrote:
[Copied to the poster because they may not be subscribed]

> how to clone apt repository to newest only?
> Fedora/Red Hat will organize the repository by copying only the most recent 
> packages from that distribution if you give it the "reposync --newest-only" 
> option, but Debian doesn't seem to be able to do that.
> 
> What can I do?
> 
> 
Hi

By default, apt will check the dates on the package manifests and bring you
up to date based on that.

If you install from nothing then the installer will do the same assuming
that you have an internet connection.

reposync is really a Red Hat ecosystem specific command, I think.

(already answered on the list: can I suggest that you subscribe to the list)

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: Dealing with SPAM.

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Dec 25, 2023 at 11:19:43AM +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 25.12.2023 um 08:56:41 Uhr schrieb Brad Rogers:
> 
> > On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 16:50:13 +1100
> > Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> > 
> > Hello Zenaan,
> > 
> > >OMG money! I, being Debian User it  
> > 
> > The best thing to do is ignore SPAM.
> > 
> > If you *must* reply, don't quote the whole thing and send it to the
> > list *again*.  
> 
> Replying to spam will just tell the spammers that the mailbox is being
> read and that makes the address much more interesting for spam.
>

If you come across spam - ignore it in the mail that's come to you.
Also check in the web mailing list archives at lists.debian.org if its come
from a list and use the button to report as spam. If it gets removed from
the publicly visible archives there, it's also then less likely to be
harvested by spambots and used again.

Andy

Re: difference in seconds between two formatted dates ...

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Dec 25, 2023 at 12:24:55AM +, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 12/25/23, David Wright  wrote:
> > On Sun 24 Dec 2023 at 23:05:53 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> >> On 12/18/23, Max Nikulin  wrote:
> ...
> >> Why would %S be in the range
> >> second (00..60), instead of (00..59)?:
> >
> > Leap seconds—see the example already in the thread:
> >   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/12/msg00976.html
> 
>  So, a possible (the only?) solution to those kinds of problems would
> be to always and explicitly use UTC, right? Or, using the longitude 20
> West (just crossing Iceland, which is 60+ North) or 170 West (too
> close to "Vladimir Putin") where so few people live that I don't think
> that anyone would care about day time savings or any of that.
> 

Yes - that's the obvious way. I set my machines to /etc/UTC (or /etc/GMT)
and leave them there. No daylight saving time, no offsets - all logs
unambiguous. That's why (worldwide) radio logkeeping is/was in UTC.
If you're travelling in an aircraft, you don't _need_ to know ground time
but you do need to know flight time against a reference time. The Royal
Air Force keep to UTC wherever they are in the world for just this reason.

Anything else is an offset against the reference: if all your Linux
boxes have timestamps against the epoch - which can also be related
to a human time if you *have* to - you have a reference there..

The problem comes when someone gives you logs that are taken against a 
different reference. (See also mapping against Greenwhich meridian (UK)
and Paris meridian (France) for many years - two sets of maps that aren't
*hugely* different on a world scale but locally very different).

>  All kinds of software keep time diffs. I am trying to use it in an
> obvious human readable way right in the file names.
> 
>  lbrtchx
> 

Re: Synaptic Problem

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Dec 23, 2023 at 08:34:16AM -0500, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> I installed VMware-Player-Full-17.5.0-22583795.x86_64.bundle without any
> problems.
> 
> Wen I tried to run the app using the run icon I got the error:
> 
> Failed to execute./update command "@@BINAR@@".
> railed to execute child process "@@BINARY@@" (No sudh file or directory)
> 
> So, I uninstalled the program:
> 

Did you check the directories afterwards, removing any files you found
related to vmware?

> 
> root@AbNormal:/usr/bin# vmware-installer --list-products
> Product Name Product Version
>  
> vmware-player    17.5.0.22583795
> root@AbNormal:/usr/bin# vmware-installer -u vmware-player
> All configuration information is about to be removed. Do you wish to
> keep your configuration files? You can also input 'quit' or 'q' to
> cancel uninstallation. [yes]: no
> 
> Uninstalling VMware Installer 3.1.0
>     Deconfiguring...
> [##]
> 100%
> Uninstallation was successful.
> root@AbNormal:/usr/bin#
> 

That looks like a success ...

> However, I have a bit of a problem, when I attempt:
> 
> (base) comp@AbNormal:~$ sudo apt update
> [sudo] password for comp:
> Hit:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security InRelease
> Hit:2 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian bookworm InRelease
> Hit:3 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian bookworm-updates InRelease
> Hit:4 https://repo.skype.com/deb stable InRelease
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> All packages are up to date.
> W: https://repo.skype.com/deb/dists/stable/InRelease: Key is stored in
> legacy trusted.gpg keyring (/etc/apt/trusted.gpg), see the DEPRECATION
> section in apt-key(8) for details.
> (base) comp@AbNormal:~$ sudo apt upgrade
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> E: The package virtualbox-7.0 needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an
> archive for it.
> (base) comp@AbNormal:~$
> 

If you were using virtualbox before vmware, could this be left over?
Virtualbox has been removed from Debian stable versions - see
https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox but I think you could pick it up from
Oracle.

If you've nothing that depends on either particularly, I'd recommend
virt-manager and the kvm/qemu universe.

Andy


> Please advise.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> -- 
> Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.
> https://insilicochemistry.net
> (614)312-7528 (c)
> Skype:  smolnar1
> 

Re: Clarification: public private replies [WAS Re: Formal reminder of Codes of Conduct]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

cc. to commun...@debian.org because I'm explaining CT involvment.

On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 12:47:51PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 03:49:13PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> > On 12/21/23 14:27, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > Posting well-intentioned private replies back to the list is not 
> > > appropriate.
> > 

Hi,

Thanks to those folk on the list who have contributed helpful comments.
Let me try and explain myself (and actually the Debian Community team)
a bit more clearly.

* Public list *

This list:
* Isn't moderated - anyone can post. That's deliberate.
* Is a public list - as far as possible, discussions here work best if they
  are all in public.
* Is hosted on Debian infrastructure and subject to Debian rules.

There's one justification in trying to advise good conduct here on the list:
this is "Debian space" so Debian folk are able to request good behaviour in
Debian-run areas. Offenders can be advised on better behaviour - on or
off list, can be deny-listed for a period or just deny-listed completely.
That can apply to all Debian-owned/run resources - so mailing lists, IRC,
wiki.

* Abuse*

That doesn't need to be done very often but it does happen. Anyone can
report abuse to the community team (commun...@debian.org) or contact the
Debian listmasters who run the Debian lists.

** Community Team involvement **

It happens that I hang out on this list and I'm also a Community Team
member - the FAQ is meant to try and explain how the list is supposed to
work when it all runs smoothly. I can't *force* people to follow it: it's
mostly suggestions that would be helpful if followed.

If you want some more idea of how the Community Team operates, you can
hear Steve Macintyre and myself explaining in the latest mini-Debconf
video: 
http://laotzu.ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2023/MiniDebConf-Cambridge/meet-the-community-team.webm
 

* Why the list and not private emails? *

If possible, it's better to keep the list and all emails public so that 
there's no risk of bad conduct/bullying being hidden in private emails.

If you're sending an email to the list / answering someone else's list email 
- make sure that you put the list address first. One reason to add someone in
as a direct in-person email might be if they say in their post that they are
not subscribed. If so, also make that clear at the top of the
email that will go to the list.

"Also sending off list copy to the original poster because they may not be
subscribed" or something similar

> > Please clarify how the Debian Community Team wishes us to respond to the
> > following use-case:
> > 
> > 1.  User A posts to the list.  This post may start or continue a thread.
> > 

Reply to user A on-list unless there are particular compelling circumstances.

> > 2.  User B replies to #1 directly to user A.  All content is suitable for
> > the list.  There is no statement of "off-list", "private", etc..  A
> > reasonable mailing list reader would conclude that the reply was intended
> > for the list, but was send off-list due to human error.
> 
Try not to do this :) It *is* easily done with some mailers. If you realise
that you B have done it and you really meant it to go to the list, copy/forward
*your* email to A to the list with a note at the top:
"Sorry - I meant for this to go to the list: here's my response to A"

That makes sure that it goes to the list so there's no gap in flow or 
understanding. If it doesn't go to the whole list at some point and contains
vital information for problem solving - there's a problem.

> We are not robots. We all make human errors (as opposed to robot
> errors). I think you have mostly answered your own question with the
> framing of "A reasonable mailing list reader".
> 
> The point is if you reply on-list to private mail that you think is
> fine and it turns out that you included something that was personal,
> people might get offended and that's on you, so if you are acting
> reasonably you'd like to minimise that, so I think it's self-solving
> and you don't need this documented in a state machine.
> 

If you do the above and A comes back to you directly because they just
respond to you as person to person, you can ask them politely if they
would mind copying this to the list so that there's continuity.

It's sometimes possible to mess up misread a personal email, think it
came from the list and send something private back to the mailing list.
That can be deeply personal information: in some sense, avoiding personal
emails and sending them all via the list makes it slightly less likely
for that to happen.

We are not robots: we're human beings and social animals. A community
does build up. If you want to ask after someone's health / wish them a
happy birthday / commiserate on the fo

Clarification: public private replies [WAS Re: Formal reminder of Codes of Conduct]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 02:59:26PM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 21:36:00 +
> "Andrew M.A. Cater"  wrote:
> 
> > Replies to you which are specifically marked as replies off-list are 
> > private. Don't repost private information. The normal expectation is
> > that the list is public and communication to the list is public.
> > If someone specifically replies to you in private, it would be for an
> > exceptional reason and should not be reposted back to the list.
> 

In this particular thread, a poster suggested on-list that he was replying
off-list in order to not prolong the thread. That _private_ post was then
posted back to the list. That's not appropriate in any circumstances.

If you do reply to something off-list, then a good practice is to put
in a sentence explaining _why_ you're replying off list and that it shouldn't
be copied back to the list. If someone doesn't do that, then you should
assume that anything off list is intended between two people only. 

Anyone can make mistakes and reply with a post to a list that was intended
to be a private reply: that's why it's important to make it clear up front
that something is intended to remain private, if possible.

Likewise, if I accidentally reply to a poster with a more general post that
I meant to go to the list, I'll post to the list with "Sent to poster
in private by mistake - forwarding to the list for info" so that it's 
not lost.

Finger trouble happens: the correct thing is to respond to it appropriately,
with an apology if necessary..

> Clarification, please. Occasionally a miss-configured mail reader will
> cause a private off-list reply, which the correspondent does not notice.
> My usual response to that sort of thing is to suggest that the
> correspondent fix his mail reader, and then reply to the email on-list.
> But only if there is nothing in either the errant email or my reply to
> it which I believe to be private. Is something like that within your
> admonition not to reply on-list to an off-list email?
> 

I think I'm going to have to expand the FAQ again. There's a bit in there
that says, effectively "don't start a question thread on list, take it off
list and get an answer, then come back to the list saying *Solved* without
actually giving an answer" 

That's quite often the reaction of someone relatively new to the list,
who gets a good answer from someone on list, mails the expert off list,
maybe has a further problem solving conversation  and then doesn't leave the
answer. That's frustrating for someone trawling a search engine later.
That's why there's a bit in there saying "hold your conversations on list
as far as you can".

Posting well-intentioned private replies back to the list is not appropriate.
Throwing people's help back in their face is not appropriate.
Consideration - and sometimes keeping your hands off the keyboard for an hour
- *is* appropriate.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater
[amaca...@debian.org]

Formal reminder of Codes of Conduct [WAS Re: Could we please cease this thread now?]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 10:12:36AM -0500, Pocket wrote:
> 
> On 12/21/23 09:46, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 09:25:26 -0500
> > Pocket  wrote:
> > 
> > Hello Pocket,
> > 
> > >  Forwarded Message 
> > Putting a private message on the list, without sender's consent, is very
> > rude indeed.  Given that it was announced by sender beforehand that they
> > would reply privately, I'm absolutely certain they did not agree to the
> > message being forwarded here.
> > 
> > May you live in interesting times. (ancient insult)
> 
> Then don't hit and hide.
> 
> -- 
> Hindi madali ang maging ako
>

Posted to the list - purely so that this is recorded in the list archives
which Pocket can view at https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/12/thrd3.html
As a member of the Debian Community Team, I'm also copying this to community@d.o

I'm not a moderator of this list: the list is unmoderated. I am a Debian
Community Team member. The Community Team is here to resolve disputes and
to make Debian a welcoming place. In that context, the tone of your recent
posts here is unhelpful and your messaging has been non-constructive

I would refer you to the FAQ for this list which I maintain.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/12/msg00845.html 

Replies to you which are specifically marked as replies off-list are 
private. Don't repost private information. The normal expectation is
that the list is public and communication to the list is public.
If someone specifically replies to you in private, it would be for an
exceptional reason and should not be reposted back to the list.

If you're posting on the lists, your post is subject to the Debian codes
of conduct - please abide by them.

You are welcome in Debian - and contributions are appreciated - but a level
of basic understanding and courtesy is expected of all here.  

Andrew Cater
(amaca...@debian.org)
[For the Debian Community Team]

Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 06:57:50PM -0500, Pocket wrote:
> 

Could we please stop the thread now? You appear to be talking past each
other at this point. Various suggestions as to the nature of the problem
and possible solutions have been put forward - it is absolutely for you
to choose whatever you wish to do but can we please end the discussion now.

The aim in this list is to be constructive and helpful - sometimes lengthy
threads wear that thin.

Andy

> On 12/20/23 18:41, John Hasler wrote:
> > pocket writes:
> > > I never implied that, only that the ISP services are spectrum only in the
> > > area I live.
> > No Starlik?  In any case what ISP you use is unrelated to what email
> > provider you use. I use pobox.com, but there are others.
> 
> No starlink
> 
> I have spoken
> 
> -- 
> Hindi madali ang maging ako
> 

Re: how to clone apt repository to newest only?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 06:05:46AM +, ��  wrote:
> how to clone apt repository to newest only?
> Fedora/Red Hat will organize the repository by copying only the most recent 
> packages from that distribution if you give it the "reposync --newest-only" 
> option, but Debian doesn't seem to be able to do that.
> 
> What can I do?
>

By default, apt will check the dates on the package manifests and bring you
up to date based on that.

If you install from nothing then the installer will do the same assuming
that you have an internet connection.

reposync is really a Red Hat ecosystem specific command, I think.

Andy 

Re: difference in seconds between two formatted dates ...

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 03:28:58PM +, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 12/17/23, to...@tuxteam.de  wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 10:12:11AM +, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> >> dt00=$(date +%Y%m%d%H%M%S)
> >> echo "// __ \$dt00: |${dt00}|"
> >>
> >> ... after some long processing for which seconds would be exact
> >> enough, then I would like to get the seconds elapsed since dt00, like
> >> this:
> >>
> >> dt02=$(date +%Y%m%d%H%M%S)
> >> echo "// __ \$dt02: |${dt02}|"
> >
> > [...]
> >>  because bash Arithmetic is 10-based.
> >
> > You wouldn't expect bash to intuit such a crooky arithmetic as
> > Gregorian datetime (and then, based on what? The number beginning
> > with 2023? Sounds kind of exciting).
> 
>  Actually, my basic idea is if you can encode a date using formatting
> options this utility provides, then you should be able to decode it
> using the same options that same utility provides, no? ... and then
> get "seconds since 1970-01-01" which wouldn't matter when you are
> computing the difference between two 10-based whole numbers which can
> be represented exactly in binary Arithmetic.
> 
> > If you could live with a datetime format which date can understand
> > (instead of your cobbled-up pseudo numeric monster above) ...
> 
>  Thank you. I learned something out of it, but I used such "cobbled-up
> pseudo numeric monster" because, in kind of a poor-man's "measured"
> way, I use size, line count, last mod and sha256 metadata in file
> names baselining the system's state. I avoid spaces and any other
> characters you can't use in most fs' and/or may be interpreted by
> shells or OSs in their own ways.
> 
> > น Pedants at this point may feel the need to launch launch into a
> > sub-thread about how subtracting one epoch time from another doesn't
> > always produce an accurate duration. I can't stop you, but it won't
> > be news to me.
> 
>  No calendar issue here. All is needed is turning dates into seconds
> to get the time diff in seconds. I am not trying to start a
> sub-thread, but how on earth would that not always produce an accurate
> duration?
> 
>  lbrtchx
>

https://xkcd.com/2867/ refers,

Andy

(amaca...@debian.org) 

Problems with password entry [WAS Re: Debian 12.4.0]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 01:39:34AM +0100, Kevin Price wrote:
> Am 14.12.23 um 23:01 schrieb David Sawyer:
> > I use the password that I wrote down it is not accepted.
> 
> Keyboard layout? We've seen that with the kernel that comes with 12.4.0.
> -- 

Hi Kevin,

There is no obvious reason why there should be any substantive change between
the non-buggy kernel in 12.2 (6.1.0-13), the buggy kernel with the potential
file corruption issue that led to 12.4 (6.1.0-14), and the kernel that fixed
this file corruption issue that had been identified (6.1.0-15).

Immediately afer 6.1.0-15 had been issued, the upstream stable kernel
maintainers noted a separate kernel regression to do with certain wireless
chip sets which could also cause reboot/lock up issues. That led to an
upstream stable kernel minor point release as 6.1.67.

That is the issue that led to bug reports from you. 

*That* kernel fix, which went through a full test cycle in Debian, is in
Debian kernel version 6.1.0-16 wiich is the current kernel in 12.4
(available from the stable-updates repository).

[See also the Debian wiki at https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList for the
Bookworm /etc/apt/sources.list entries]

Any possible keyboard issues are entirely orthogonal to any recent kernel
issues, I think.

For an installed value of one and as a counter-example where It Works
For Me (TM), I've been through each of the above kernels, including
the buggy one, with no change in keyboard layout.

> Kevin Price
>

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater 

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified x2 16th December 2023)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:

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Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure that all copies
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See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Problems?
=

Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
Debian Community Team .

Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings: repeated bad
behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 16th December 2023)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics.

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:

* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing
  lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

* It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list.

* Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
  a question before you - if so, you should not reply in order to get
  the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.

* Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
   and scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.

* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread may be much easier to
  read than long threads.

* This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
  answer - please be patient.

* Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
  conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
  along on the list or reading the archives later.

* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
  or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on the email
  accordingly.

* It may also be useful to for someone to post a summary email from time to
  time to explain long threads.

* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
  you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
  else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.

* Strictly, discussions of other distributions are off-topic here.
  Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian will be
  only our best guess - other distributions may do things very differently.
  Any advice given accordingly  may be inaccurate but is given in good faith.

* Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
  welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
  do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; do not
  assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
  Debian list.

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

* One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time
  is of the form:

  "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
   Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"

Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived, potentially
cached by Google and so on.

Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure that all copies
anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may only serve to
draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Problems?
=

Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
Debian Community Team .

Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings: repeated bad
behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

Re: Debian 12.4.0

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 05:01:19PM -0500, David Sawyer wrote:
> This may seem to be a simple problem. I set up Debian with a password that
> I wrote down to be sure. Since then I have never been able to log in. When
> I use the password that I wrote down it is not accepted. I really don't
> want to have to delete the program and download it again. I guess Ubuntu
> might be better.
> Dave Sawyer

Hi David,

Did you set up a root password as well?

Did you confuse numbers or letters do you think - 1 and l or 0 and O?

Sounds stupid: did you accidentally hit caps lock and put your password
in originally in all capitals? 
[Yes - most of us have done that sort of thing once :) ]

There are ways to get in using rescue mode, potentially, or by editing
the line that comes up when the initial splash screen comes up, but
eliminate the obvious.

To use Ubuntu, you'd need to overwrite what you have: at the very worst,
if you've no valuable data on the machine yet, you could reinstall Debian.

Good luck with it - come back to the list once you've eliminated the
most obvious problems.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towait for it to respond

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 02:19:07PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 12/13/23 13:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 10:26:19AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > Greetings all;
> > > 
> > 
> > Hi Gene,
> > 
> > Respectfully, if I were you, I might consider tearing down one machine
> > and rebuilding the data on it bit by bit.
> > 
> > Questions to answer first:
> > 
> > 1. Are all the disks the same size?
> > 
> yes
> > 2. Are all the disks the same manufacturer?
> All 1T Samsung 870's
> > 3. Are they all connected to the same controller if this is an add-in card?
> > 
> yes. add in card.
> 
> > If not an add in card:
> > 
> > 4. Are they all connected to the SATA sockets on the motherboard?
> > motherboard?
> > 
> No. All connected to a 6 port board, in port order.
> 
> > 4. If to the motherboard, are they the only devices connected to the SATA
> > sockets there?
> No, main board is Asus Prime Z370-A II but it only has 6 ports, all busy.
> > 
> > 5. What is the primary device that has / on it - NVME / SSD / spinning rust?
> 
> SSD, another 1T samsung.
> 
> > > So one more time: Why can't I use my software raid10 on 4 1T SSD's ?
> > > 
> > 
> > _How did you set the RAID 10 up?
> > 
> > Would you be willing to scrap the data in /home and start again?
> No, I have a lot of work I'd be the rest of my life rebuilding.
> Howevr, in preparation to restarting amanda, I've just installed a 2nd sata
> add on card, this one with 16 ports, 4 of which are already loaded with 2T
> gigastones so I do have the means to rsync /home to 1 or more of those.
> 

Copy /home to another drive - then disconnect power and drive cables to it.
You seem to like adding many disks to one machine: I'd honestly suggest
grabbing another machine to put half these disks into.

If you've got NVME - put that in as your boot drive, maybe.
Maybe use LVM and guided partitioning with all files in one partition.

Then use the four 1T disks and the four way card and mdadm to set up the
mirrored RAID with LVM on top for /home and add that to your fstab.

Rsync the data back from your one drive that you put the original /home
onto and you're done with that disk.

Do all this with a brand new bookworm disk and linuxcnc and you're done

Simplify, simplify, simplify :)

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing to wait for it to respond

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 10:26:19AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> I thought I was doing things right a year back when I built a raid10 for my
> /home partition. but I'm tired of fighting with it for access. Anything that
> wants to open a file on it, is subjected to a freeze of at least 30 seconds
> BEFORE the file requester is drawn on screen.  Once it has done the screen
> draw and the path is established, read/writes then proceed at multi-gigabyte
> speeds just like it should, but some applications refuse to wait that long,
> so digiKam cannot import from my camera for example one, QIDISlicer is
> another that get plumb upset and declares a segfault, core dumped, but it
> can't write the core dump for the same reason it declared a segfault.  Here
> is a copy/paste of the last attempt to select the "device" tab in
> QIDISlicer:
> ---
> Error creating proxy: Error calling StartServiceByName for
> org.gtk.vfs.GPhoto2VolumeMonitor: Timeout was reached (g-io-error-quark, 24)
> 
> ** (qidi-slicer:389574): CRITICAL **: 04:55:46.975: Cannot register URI
> scheme wxfs more than once
> 
> ** (qidi-slicer:389574): CRITICAL **: 04:55:46.975: Cannot register URI
> scheme memory more than once
> 
> (qidi-slicer:389574): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 04:55:47.084:
> gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
> [2023-12-13 05:10:27.325222] [0x7f77e6ffd6c0] [error]   Socket created.
> Multicast: 255.255.255.255. Interface: 192.168.71.3
> Unhandled unknown exception; terminating the application.
> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
> -
> This where it was attempting to open the cache buffers if needed to remember
> what moonraker, a web server driver which is part of the klipper install on
> the printer, addressed at 192.168.71.110: with an odd, high numbered port
> above 10,000.
> 
> I've been here several times with this problem without any constructive
> responses other than strace, which of course does NOT work for network
> stuff, and would if my past history with it is any indication, generate
> several terabytes of output, but it fails for the same reason, no place to
> put its output because I assume, it can't write to the raid10 in a timely
> manner.
> 

Hi Gene,

Respectfully, if I were you, I might consider tearing down one machine
and rebuilding the data on it bit by bit.

Questions to answer first:

1. Are all the disks the same size?

2. Are all the disks the same manufacturer?

3. Are they all connected to the same controller if this is an add-in card?

If not an add in card:

4. Are they all connected to the SATA sockets on the motherboard?
motherboard?

4. If to the motherboard, are they the only devices connected to the SATA
sockets there?

5. What is the primary device that has / on it - NVME / SSD / spinning rust?

> So one more time: Why can't I use my software raid10 on 4 1T SSD's ?
> 

_How did you set the RAID 10 up?

Would you be willing to scrap the data in /home and start again?

All best, as ever,

Andy

(amaca...@debian.org)

> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> 

Re: From which kernel should I upgrade my installed Debian to linux-image-6.1.0-15-amd64?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 02:25:23PM +0100, Kevin Price wrote:
> Am 11.12.23 um 14:16 schrieb Stella Ashburne:
> > Suppose I wish to upgrade to linux-image-6.1.0-15-amd64.
> 
> If that were the case, or maybe better to a newer one.
> 
> > Should I do it after booting my device into
> > (1) linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64 (the problematic kernel)
> 
> NO. Don't ever boot that as it might then toast your ext4.
> 
> > (2) linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64 (which precedes the buggy one)
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > (3) doesn't matter which kernel to upgrade from
> 
> Yes, it largely doesn't matter, apart from the exception above.
> 
> HTH
> -- 
> Kevin Price
>

If, this afternoon (UK timezone), you do a full upgrade - you'll get
6.1.0-15 and that's fine.

If you're not currently booted into the erroneous 6.1.0-14 - don't boot into
it and you can safely apt-get remove it (or equivalent).

If you also install linux-image-amd64 if you removed it - you should end
up with 6.1.0-15 and 6.1.0-13 available to you.

This isn't something that happens often - ideally not more than once a 
decade - so we haven't had a lot of practice at this. On average, it's
OK to just upgrade to the next sequentially numbered kernel and reboot.
This once, it isn't.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater
[amaca...@debian.org] 

Re: Need clarifications about how to deal with the installed problematic kernel, linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64 (6.1.64-1)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 04:31:22AM +0100, Stella Ashburne wrote:
> Hi Michael
> 
> > Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 9:29 PM
> > From: "Michael Kjörling" <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net>
> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > Subject: Re: Need clarifications about how to deal with the installed 
> > problematic kernel, linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64 (6.1.64-1)
> >
> > 
> > This combination is expected under the circumstances, assuming that
> > you mean /etc/debian_version. Booting into a different kernel does not
> > change the files installed by the base-files package, which is where
> > /etc/debian_version comes from; if you want to, you can verify this
> > with dpkg -S /etc/debian_version.
> > 
> Someone on a social media platform stated that there are only two "canonical" 
> [sic] ways to verify the version of Debian installed on a system. They are:
> 
> uname -a
> 

As you will have discovered this weekend - that one tells you which kernel
you're running, not which Debian version per se.

> /proc/version
> 

Likewise.

> Do you agree with the above statement?
> 
> > 
> > 
> > > Question #2b
> > > 
> > > Suppose I need to re-install linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64 but some users 
> > > told me that it is no longer in the repos.
> > > 
> > > I can just download it manually by using the following link:
> > > 
> > > https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/amd64/linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64/download
> > > 
> > > And then in a terminal, I type the commands:
> > > 
> > > sudo dpkg -i linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64
> > > 
> > > sudo update-grub
> > > 
> > > sudo shutdown -r now
> > > 
> > > Is the above the correct way to install kernels that are not in the 
> > > official repos?
> > 
> > Not quite, because dpkg -i wants a file path, not a package name
> > (that's for apt/apt-get). Also dpkg won't automatically pull in any
> > dependencies that may have been uninstalled after the upgrade, or
> > necessarily handle any DKMS modules that would need to be recompiled
> > for the older kernel version, so you'd need to take care with those.
> 
> Could you help me to understand what you meant when you wrote: "Not quite, 
> because dpkg -i wants a file path, not a package name" please?
> 
> Please allow me to give you an example of how I use dpkg on a regular basis.
> 

dpkg is low level: it will work to install one .deb, usually this has to be
one in the same directory. Apt will install more than one because it also
keeps tabs on dependencies.

> The version of OpenVPN software in the official Debian repos is lamentably 
> outdated. It has version 2.6.3-1+deb12u2 whereas the official community 
> version by OpenVPN Inc. has version 2.6.8 (By the way, Fedora users are lucky 
> because David S., one of the developers of OpenVPN, is personally maintaining 
> OpenVPN in Fedora's official repos; meaning, the version in Fedora's repos is 
> in sync with the official OpenVPN's version.)
> 
> Whenever OpenVPN's developers release an update for OpenVPN, they will also 
> publish the corresponding version for Debian users.
> 

Please ask OpenVPN to set up an apt repository :)

> Below are the URLs for the latest version (2.6.8):
> 
> https://build.openvpn.net/debian/openvpn/release/2.6/pool/bookworm/main/o/openvpn/openvpn_2.6.8-bookworm0_amd64.deb
> 
> https://build.openvpn.net/debian/openvpn/release/2.6/pool/bookworm/main/o/openvpn/openvpn-dbgsym_2.6.8-bookworm0_amd64.deb
> 
> https://build.openvpn.net/debian/openvpn/release/2.6/pool/bookworm/main/o/openvpn-dco-dkms/openvpn-dco-dkms_0.2.20231117-bookworm0_all.deb
> 
> This is how I install the latest version of OpenVPN on my Debian Bookworm:
> 
> 1. sudo apt remove openvpn
> 
> **Sometimes I sudo apt purge openvpn instead of sudo apt remove openvpn in 
> order to remove the configuration files**
> 
> 2. sudo dpkg -i openvpn_2.6.8-bookworm0_amd64.deb
> 
> 3. sudo shutdown -r now
> 
> Based on your statement, what file path should I supply to dpkg?
> 
> > Someone on the Fediverse posted an apt preferences recipe to block the
> > broken kernel package from installation. I haven't tested it, but it
> > looks reasonable:
> > 
> > > create a file:
> > > 
> > > /etc/apt/preferences.d/buggy-kernel
> > > 
> > > with the contents:
> > > # avoid kernel with ext4 bug 
> > > # 1057843
> > > Package: linux-image-*
> > > Pin: version 6.1.64-1
> > > Pin-Priority: -1
> > 
> > Copied from https://octodon.social/@alienghic/111552556796482609
> > 
> Thanks, Michael for your tip.
> 
> But I find the following command to be much simpler to use:
> 
> sudo apt-mark hold linux-image-amd64
> 
> Said command achieves the same goal, yes?
> 
> Best wishes.
> 
> Stella
> 

Release process notes [WAS Re: Need clarifications about how to deal with the installed problematic kernel, linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64 (6.1.64-1)]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 03:32:55AM +0100, Stella Ashburne wrote:
> Hi Greg
> 
> > Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 11:08 PM
> > From: "Greg Wooledge" 
> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > Subject: Re: Need clarifications about how to deal with the installed 
> > problematic kernel, linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64 (6.1.64-1)
> >
> >
> > Note that purging 6.1.0-14 will also remove the linux-image-amd64
> > metapackage, which has a hard dependency on it (at the moment).
> 
> What is/was the hard dependency?
> 

linux-image-[foo]-amd64 always points to the latest available kernel image
for amd64 (and the same for other architectures). It's a metapackage
that pulls in other packages

When you first install, I suspect it's that package that makes sure your
kernel version is up to date. When you update between point releases
likewise. 

Hard removing the latest kernel _and_ the metapackage prevents you
from updating to the buggy kernel but you have to do some tidying up 
afterwards. :)

> > Only if you reinstall the kernel metapackage as soon as you notice that
> > there's been another point release.
> >
> > This is not a criticism of Andrew's post.  I'm just reminding everyone,
> > including myself, that we're going to have to remember to do this extra
> > step.
> 
> 
> As of writing this reply, there's a new point release, 12.4.0
> 
> What if I don't reinstall the kernel's metapackage as soon as there's a new 
> point release? Or if I forget to reinstall it?
> 

If you don't reinstall it, then the metapackage won't be there. I installed
it as soon as the point release was being published before the install 
images were out. [Sequence: release team publish the packages - and they
can get put out to mirrors, daily updates etc. Images team build and test
media to check that there's no regressions. Images get published and pushed.
Formal release notification goes out. 12.3 was stopped as image releases
were being tested and the release team had to replace the buggy kernel,
make a decision as to where to put the fix, run through the whole process.
Images release team then had to build and test the media - which always
takes a few hours more. "Release" varies which way you look at it]

This time round the main release team had to effectively do two point
releases in very quick succession and the images team did two full sets
of testing

> Thanks for your clarification.
> 
> Best wishes.
> 
> Stella
> 

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: IMPORTANT: do NOT upgrade to new stable point release

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 02:27:38PM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 13:09:23 -0500
> Dan Ritter  wrote:
> 
> > https://fulda.social/@Ganneff/111551628003050712
> > 
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1057843
> > 
> > The new kernel release is reported to contain an ext4 data
> > corruption bug. It's prudent not to upgrade, or if you have
> > started to upgrade, not to reboot, until a new kernel release
> > is prepared.
> > 
> > 
> > -dsr-
> > 
> 
> It appears the new, repaired, kernel and minor version of Bookworm have
> landed. Now, who wants to live dangerously? :-)
> 
> root@tiassa:~# apt update
> Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security InRelease 
> [48.0 kB]
> Get:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm InRelease [151 kB]
> Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 Packages [8,787 kB]
> Get:4 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm/main Translation-en [6,109 kB]
> Fetched 15.1 MB in 3s (4,432 kB/s) 
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> 38 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
> N: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm InRelease' changed its 
> 'Version' value from '12.3' to '12.4'
> root@tiassa:~# apt list --upgradable
> Listing... Done
> …
> libudev1/stable 252.19-1~deb12u1 amd64 [upgradable from: 252.17-1~deb12u1]
> linux-image-amd64/stable 6.1.66-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 6.1.55-1]
> linux-libc-dev/stable 6.1.66-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 6.1.55-1]
> …
> root@tiassa:~# 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
> 
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/
>

I'd suggest apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade or equivalent.

There were a few other bug fixes as well in this point release but I 
think you've got the three major packages that changed.

Base files also changed, obviously :) 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy

Re: 6.1.0-15/6.1.66-1 broken too?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 08:02:03PM +0100, Kevin Price wrote:
> Am 09.12.23 um 19:09 schrieb Dan Ritter:
> > The new kernel release is reported to contain an ext4 data
> > corruption bug. It's prudent not to upgrade, or if you have
> > started to upgrade, not to reboot, until a new kernel release
> > is prepared.
> 
> Thanks for your announcement. I'm running out of time to properly report
> a bug against 6.1.66-1.
> 
> #1057843 states that it's fixed with 6.1.0-15/6.1.66-1. This I highly
> doubt. I handpicked that version from
> https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/ , and installed the 6.1.66-1
> packages[1]. That was totally messed up and made my amd64 system highly
> unresponsive and erratic to the point it would hang shutting down. So I
> booted back into 6.1.0-13, which still works fine, and purged 6.1.0-14
> and 6.1.0-15, and IOT have two working options, I reinstalled 6.0.1-12,
> which had been autoremoved with the update.
> 
> [1] Packages I used:
> 
> [src:linux]
> linux-compiler-gcc-12-x86_6.1.55-1_amd64.deb
> linux-headers-6.1.0-13-amd64_6.1.55-1_amd64.deb
> linux-headers-6.1.0-13-common_6.1.55-1_all.deb
> linux-kbuild-6.1_6.1.55-1_amd64.deb
> linux-libc-dev_6.1.55-1_amd64.deb
> 
> [src:linux-signed-amd64]
> linux-headers-amd64_6.1.55-1_amd64.deb (optional meta-pkg)
> linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64_6.1.55-1_amd64.deb
> linux-image-amd64_6.1.55-1_amd64.deb (optional meta-pkg)
> 
> Other versions I tried:
> 6.1.0-12/6.1.52-1 works
> 6.1.0-13/6.1.55-1 works
> 6.1.0-14/6.1.64-1 broken, according to #1057843
> 6.1.0-15/6.1.66-1 broken as experienced
> 
> For now, I've purged the broken ones, and put the working ones on hold
> with dpkg.
> 
> Any ideas?
> -- 
> Kevin Price
>

If you hand-picked packages: I would suggest using apt to upgrade the whole
system . 

For anybody who followed my initially erroneous advice to remove
linux-image-amd64 - installing that package should pull in 6.1.0-15
correctly as a dependency.

Kevin: Do you have any logs to show brokenness? For what it's worth,
there were other updates and fixes besides just #1057843 in the new
release.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy
[amaca...@debian.org]

Re: IMPORTANT: do NOT upgrade to new stable point release

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 05:09:15PM -, Curt wrote:
> On 2023-12-10, Andrew M.A. Cater  wrote:
> >
> > "Now" is almost exactly Sun 10 Dec 16:55:43 UTC 2023
> 
> You mean in the Zulu Time Zone (as I am all at sea)?
> 
> > Andy
> > (amaca...@debian.org) 
> >
> >
> 

Not this again :) GMT (was) the world standard reference point from 1884
and the Washington Conference (or thereabouts).

For most purposes GMT + == UTC (or UCT if you're Francophone) ==
Zulu time (26 time zones to cope with half hour offsets - ?? go from A-Z??)
== "military time" (if you're US military) and quite possibly NATO time.

This fails with leap seconds, potentially, and also TAI astronomical time
seems to be its own animal.

Does this help?

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
> 
> 

Re: IMPORTANT: do NOT upgrade to new stable point release

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 11:50:18AM -0500, Gary Dale wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 14:18, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> > On 9 Dec 2023 20:54 +0200, from ale...@nanoid.net (Alexis Grigoriou):
> > > I just upgraded to Bookworm this morning. I did reboot a couple of
> > > times but there seems to be no problem (yet). Is there anything I
> > > should look for or do other than rebooting?
> > If you upgraded this morning, then I would expect that you are okay
> > for now.
> > 
> > Per #5 in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1057843
> > the bug is present in kernel Debian package version 6.1.64-1. If you
> > are on 6.1.55-1 (current Bookworm stable per last night) you _likely_
> > aren't affected. If you are on 6.1.55-1 (or earlier), just hold off on
> > upgrades for now; and if you need to upgrade something else, take
> > great care for now to ensure that no Linux kernel packages get
> > upgraded to any version < 6.1.66, and preferably not < 6.1.66-1.
> > 
> > For versions, check:
> > 
> > * uname -v
> > * dpkg -l linux-image-\*
> > 
> > In that bug report thread, #21 lists 6.1.66 as fixed upstream, and #28
> > indicates that 6.1.66-1 includes the fix from upstream, and that it is
> > being published.
> > 
> Any idea when the fixed version will hit stable? With headless servers, it's
> a pain to downgrade to a previous kernel version.
>

Give them a little while: release team are working on it right now as I type

I'm fairly sure they're pushing it out more or less immediately once they're
sure that it's built correctly and synced to all the appropriate places to
be further synced to mirrors

"Now" is almost exactly Sun 10 Dec 16:55:43 UTC 2023

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org) 

Re: Fastly error: unknown domain: 199.232.150.132 : Fastly is cdn for Debian.

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 02:38:34PM +0100, Mario Marietto wrote:
> Hello to everyone.
> 
> I'm using Devuan 5 for arm32 on my ARM chromebook and I've just tried to
> update the system,but I failed.
> 

Hi Mario,

You're on your own for two reasons: one is that relatively few of us
will be running on an ARM chromebook, the second is that you're asking
a Devuan question. 

With the best will in the world, the best that we can give you on this
list is "best endeavours" answers: other Debian-based distributions
may do things very differently and the good people here may not
have the answers to give.

> This is the sources.list file that I'm using :
> 
> deb http://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian beryllium main
> 

Bunsenlabs is at best Debian-based (as a continuation of Crunchbang).
I've no idea how good their ARM port is here. 

> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus  main
> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates  main
> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security main
> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-backports main
> 
> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus  main
> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates  main
> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security main
> deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-backports main
> 

Ask Devuan: is there any particular reason you're using Devuan here
rather than Debian?

> # apt update
> 
> Hit:1 http://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian beryllium InRelease
> Get:2 http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus InRelease [42.4 kB]
> Get:3 http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates InRelease [32.5 kB]
> Get:4 http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security InRelease [32.5 kB]
> Get:5 http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-backports InRelease [32.6 kB]
> 
> Reading package lists... Done
> 
> E: Release file for
> http://pkg.bunsenlabs.org/debian/dists/beryllium/InRelease is not valid yet
> (invalid for another 8674d 3h 45min 8s). Updates for this repository will
> not be applied.
> E: Release file for http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/daedalus/InRelease
> is not valid yet (invalid for another 8744d 2h 14min 0s). Updates for this
> repository will not be applied.
> E: Release file for
> http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/daedalus-updates/InRelease is not valid
> yet (invalid for another 8744d 7h 58min 21s). Updates for this repository
> will not be applied.
> E: Release file for
> http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/daedalus-security/InRelease is not valid
> yet (invalid for another 8744d 4h 58min 7s). Updates for this repository
> will not be applied.
> E: Release file for
> http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/daedalus-backports/InRelease is not
> valid yet (invalid for another 8744d 7h 58min 11s). Updates for this
> repository will not be applied.
> 

Your real time clock isn't :(

Set the date correctly using GNU date command or similar and work forward
from there.

> After a little experimenting it looks like to me that it is a Fastly error:
> 
> Fastly error: unknown domain: 199.232.150.132. Please check that this
> domain has been added to a service.
> 
> Fastly is cdn for Debian.
> -- 

This is irrelevant given your sources lists - you're not referencing Debian
sources, potentially.

> Mario.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy

(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: Need clarifications about how to deal with the installed problematic kernel, linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64 (6.1.64-1)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 01:48:52PM +0100, Stella Ashburne wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am using Debian Bookworm, the current stable release with the whole SSD 
> being encrypted with LUKS2. After decryption, the file system of the logical 
> volume is ext4.
> 
> This is what happened to my computer many hours ago.
> 
> My device upgraded to the latest kernel, linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64 and 
> rebooted.
> 

Yes, this was a problem that surfaced properly half way through the release
process. The release team had already put out the main updates: I was involved
with testing the images with the images team.

The issue itself is only occasional and is hard to track down. It only
affects ext4 - but that's the default file system  used if you "just
install" Debian so the release team effectively stopped the release
process part way through.

We halted the release of installer images: so there are no installer images
out there for Debian 12.3 which would be problematic. The release team is
currently working on 12.4, images for which will probably be out within
the next couple of days.
(This will be the first time in a _long_ time that we've not put out a
release of images - breakage doesn't happen very often and the publicity
folks also got onto this to warn people.)

> A few hours later, Debian put out an advisory warning its users against 
> upgrading to linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64, by which time it was too late for me.
> 

Bad luck - but it looks as if you've done the right thing ...

> According to some people on social media, I should boot using the previous 
> kernel, linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64, which is problem-free.
> 
> Question #1
> 
> I power up my device and upon seeing the GRUB menu, I highlight "Advance 
> options for Debian GNU/Linux" and press Enter.
> 
> I highlight linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64 and press Enter.
> 
> After supply the decryption password and entering my desktop environment, I 
> did the following:
> 
> cat /etc/debian_user
> *Result* is 12.3, even though I boot using the previous kernel, 
> linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64
> 

This is because base-files and everything else have been updated to reference
12.3 - so that probably comes from somewhere like /etc/debian_version

> uname -a
> *Result* is linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64
> 

Correct: you've booted using 6.1.0-13

> I remove the corrupt linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64 by typing the following 
> commands in a terminal. They are:
> 
> dpkg --search /boot/vmlinuz-*
> 
> sudo apt-get remove linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64
> 
> sudo update-grub
> 
> sudo shutdown -r now
> 
> Is the above the correct way to remove the most recent/latest kernel?
>

That will work: you might also want to apt-get purge linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64
but you've done the main thing.
 
> Question #2a
> 
> Some users opine that after removing linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64, I should 
> re-install linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64. Why should I re-install 
> linux-image-6.1.0-1-amd64?
> 

If you'd removed 6.1.0-13 so that the later kernel was the only one - that 
would be right - Otherwise you're fine.

> Am I right to state that Debian keeps the three recent kernels, including 
> linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64, for situations such as this one? (The situation 
> in which a corrupt linux-image-6.1.0-14-amd64 was pushed to the repos for 
> users to upgrade)
> 

Routinely, I think it keeps only the latest and the previous - so in this case,
you would have had 6.1.0-14 and 6.1.0-13
 
> Question #2b
> 
> Suppose I need to re-install linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64 but some users told 
> me that it is no longer in the repos.
> 
> I can just download it manually by using the following link:
> 
> https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/amd64/linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64/download
> 
> And then in a terminal, I type the commands:
> 
> sudo dpkg -i linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64
> 
> sudo update-grub
> 
> sudo shutdown -r now
> 

That works: when the new kernel (presumably 6.1.0-15) comes out, that
will be installed appropriately.

> Is the above the correct way to install kernels that are not in the official 
> repos?
> 

That will work while previous kernels still exist in the repositories yes.
When I installed, I still had 6.0.1.12 available too because I'd had that
previously.

> Thanks for taking the time and effort to clarify my doubts.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Stella
> 
>

No problem: debian-release team are working away quite hard at the moment
on sorting out the problems, providing a new kernel and, presumably,
removing the problematic kernel from the archive. It's been a long
weekend for them :(

All the very best, as ever,

Andy 

Re: Xorg fails, no gui: systemd issue?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 06:13:59PM +, John - wrote:
> Since I last (3 December) upgraded the software (sid)  on my old Thinkpad, my 
> gui fails to come up. The last line of /var/log/Xorg.0.log reads:
> (EE) systemd-login: failed to take device /dev/dri/card0: Message recipient 
> disconnected from message bus without replying
> I've  been trying for weeks to fix it, including tracking down all suggests 
> from googling the error message, without success. Can anyone help me figure 
> out what the problem is?
> Thanks.
>

Hi John,

Today is the 8th of December - strictly, that's barely a business week.

Debian expressly comes with no guarantees. You are running sid a.k.a
unstable - that comes with still fewer guarantees other than breakage
from time to time.

You are expected to be able to fix breakage in sid
yourself or you get to keep both pieces :) 

You may find that the issue has been fixed if you update today: you may not.
There's not much there in logs to help any of the rest of us who don't 
habitually run sid.

This is explicitly *not* a sarcastic suggestion: if you can't run sid,
then I would suggest you reformat your disks and install Debian stable.
Most of the people either active on this list or lurking and reading on
the sidelines run Debian stable for a reason.

If you are a Debian maintainer, you are expected to build new software in
unstable for it to propagate to testing and (eventually) to the next Debian
major release. Outside that, unless you are actively interested in testing
and fixing breakage as it occurs, there is little justification for running
sid as a daily operating system.

Sid is explicitly *not* a chance to run the latest, greatest bleeding edge
software reliably on a sustained basis without the occasional crash or 
significant problems.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy

(amaca...@debian.org)

Linuxcnc now in Debian as a full package

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Just a heads up for Gene: for when you upgrade one of your machines
(or replace disks). Linuxcnc is now a full package in Debian at least
on amd64 (and possibly on arm64).

It pulls in large amounts of dependencies, so I didn't install it myself
but apt-cache show linuxcnc should give you the details.

It might not be the weekly bleeding edge you seem happy to troubleshoot
but it might be good enough for a clean install. In that case, I'd
recommend a minimal text only install - without desktop initially - then
installing linuxcnc, then optionally installing a desktop using tasksel
to make sure that you get a usable minimum.

That would also give you a clean install base for troubleshooting :)

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)

Re: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 1st December2023)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 08:18:13PM +0100, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> there is a new surplus word "private" in these lines:
> 
> > * Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
> >   private conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
> 
> 
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas
>

OK, you know how it is when you only notice the mistake *after* you've
posted it ... I'm unsure whether to republish this with an additional
line

* Before posting, it may be useful to check your post for spelling mistakes
  and scan it for redundancy, duplicate words and redundancy.
 
With every good wish, as ever,

Andy

[amaca...@debian.org] 
 

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 1st December 2023)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics. 

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:

* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing 
  lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french 

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when 
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both 
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

* It is not necessary to answer every post on the mailing list. 
  Be constructive in your responses. It may be that somebody else answers
  a question before you - if so, you should not reply in order to get
  the last word in, only reply if you can add useful information.

* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread may be much easier to
  read than long threads.
 
* This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
  answer - please be patient.

* Please post answers back to the list so others can benefit: private
  private conversations don't benefit people who may only be following
  along on the list or reading the archives later.

* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
  or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on the email
  accordingly.

* It may also be useful to post a summary email from time to time to
  explain long threads.

* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
  you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone 
  else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.
  Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian may
  be inaccurate and, strictly, discussions of other distributions are
  off-topic here.

* Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
  welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
  do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; do not
  assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
  Debian list.

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

* One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time
  is of the form:

  "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
   Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"

Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived, potentially
cached by Google and so on.

Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure that all copies
anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may only serve to
draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Problems?
=

Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
Debian Community Team .

Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 07:30:35AM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 10:24:35PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
>


Gene,

Please do us *all* a favour to try and help you.

Write us out a list of all your machines - and if a printer has an
embedded SBC, it's a machine in this context - and the OS and versions
they are running.

List the functions you want each to have.

As others have noted, it's REALLY hard to work out what you're doing.

If machines and printers expect DHCP, then you're going to have to
amend files. Do back up the files you change.
 
> 1. There is nothing in Debian that ever overwrites the
>/etc/network/interfaces file. But you aren't running Debian on
>this machine, so we are all having difficulty helping you.
>Because this is DEBIAN-user.
> 

As ever, our collective expertise here is primarily Debian - we have no
clue what a derived distribution may or may not do.

> 2. All you've described is a line in a file which says, "Network is
>managed by NetworkManager". There is NO indication WHICH piece of
>software put that line there, it really could be anything.
>Because you aren't running Debian. Since NetworkManager can be
>set up to run arbitrary commands, it certainly COULD be YOUR
>setup of NetworkManager. Or something else entirely different.
>It's nothing in Debian, though.
> 
> > > Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your
> > > options:
> > > - do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch
> > > network configuration
> > > - setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards
> > > environment they expect.
> > > 

"Su and say" is not great: running third party scripts on non-Debian systems
and you get to keep both pieces unless you undersand what kiauh and Klipper
are doing, be careful.

> > Again, Max, its your way or the hiway. I'd be willing to guess that my
> > network experience goes back at least a decade before your first class in cs
> > 101. /etc/hosts files worked in 1990 then as now, we just have to get the
> > dhcp crap out of the way.  And you and your insistence on using dhcp which
> > has never given me a stable address are definitely NOT helping.
> 
> This like some sort of farce.
> 
> You have an operating system hard-coded to use DHCP, but you won't
> use DHCP, so it doesn't work. You can't work out how to make it not
> want DHCP; you won't ask the people who made it how; instead you ask
> us completely uninvolved folks how to do it. When we tell you to
> configure it for static networking you say you can't because it
> wants DHCP. When we say use DHCP then, you say, "oh I see it's your
> way or the hiway, I'll have you know I was crafting IP packets from
> raw bean sprouts before you kids ever drew breath!"
> 
> So would I be correct in saying that you want US to work out how to
> do this thing in software we don't use and that's off-topic here,
> and that's the only answer you'll accept?
> 
> Or have I misunderstood and there is some other direction you would
> like to go with this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 

It does seem to be a problem on this list that we can't always get
clear explanations of what has *actually* been done.

Andy
> 

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 02:19:51PM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:52:46PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > On 11/29/23 13:20, John Hasler wrote:
> > > Install chrony.  But first fix that address.
> > 
> > How, John? QIDI is afraid of enabling full net access because it might
> > overwrite some of their special stuff. Right now its running armbian buster,
> > which is out of support.  And surprise, kiauh.sh is installed, likely how
> > they set the printer up in the first place.  Its just a bash script but its
> > magic!
> 
> There are so many things in this paragraph that I don't understand.
> What is "QIDI"?  Why would enabling full net access "overwrite stuff"?
> What "stuff"?  What is "kiauh.sh" and how is it relevant to this
> question?
> 

QIDI == manufacturer of 3d printers

kiauh.sh == helper script to install Klipper

Klipper == firmware and environment to drive a 3d printer - large numbers
of installed dependencies as I understand it

> Either configure a static IP address for this host, or set up a DHCP
> server which will assign it the desired IP address.  Those are your
> two choices.
> 

Just configure your armbian to expect a static address - oh, and try really
hard *not* to use something as old as buster, maybe? There are reasons that
Debian bothers to put out newer releases :)

> If you want it to be on an isolated network, then put it on an isolated
> network.  If it needs an NTP server, make sure you put one of those
> on the isolated network as well.
> 
> It sounds like you don't want a *physically* isolated network, but rather,
> some kind of numeric subnet whose packets won't be routed to the public
> Internet.  That should be feasible.  Here's an example setup:
> 
> Machine R: Router.  Configured to talk to the public Internet, and to
> the local 192.168.1.x subnet.  IP forwarding is enabled (from 192.168.1).
> Does not know about the 192.168.2.x subnet, and will not forward packets
> from that subnet.
> 
> Machine T: Time server.  Has two IP addresses -- one on 192.168.1.x and
> one on 192.168.2.x.  Default gateway set to R.  Runs NTP, configured to
> permit client connections from both subnets, and to retrieve time from
> the public Internet.
> 
> Machine P: Printer.  Has an IP address on the 192.168.2.x subnet only.
> Runs NTP, configured to retrieve time from T.
> 
> Other hosts: If they need to talk to the public Internet, then they have
> an address on 192.168.1.x, and default gateway set to R.  If they need
> to talk to P, they have an address on 192.168.2.x.  Some will have both.
> If they run NTP, configure it to retrieve time from T.
> 
> Of course, there are other ways to achieve isolation.  You could also
> use a single subnet, but set up a fancy firewall in the router, which
> blocks the forwarding of all packets from P.  Or which doesn't forward
> by default, but is specifically configured to forward packets from T
> and other identified hosts.  You have lots of choices here.
>

Gene - in all seriousness, I'd suggest sitting down with a memo pad and
actually writing down what machines you have, what OS they have and 
wIhat you want them to *do*

At that point, configure machines individually so that they're running the
latest practicable software. If that means doing them one by one - do that.

Make a list of what functions you need and configure them one by one.
 
Build up something stable rather than constantly hacking and forgetting
the precise details of what you've done.

If needs be, then give each machine a memorable name and assign each machine a 
page to note down _precisely_ what changes you make. Take backups of 
each file you change before you change it and save them according to a naming 
scheme - I've seen someone name a copy of  the original files as x.y.gold where 
.gold is a suffix that no normal files have.

As you make individual modifications, save them as x.y.gold.1, gold.2 and so on.

That way, you know how many steps you've taken, how many changes you've made
and you can always go back. Once the file is correct, you can delete previous
copies apart from the original .gold

Just a quick suggestion which you can take or leave as you will ..

Andy 

Code of Conduct reminder [WAS Re: Alpine/Gmail/Imap expert needed.]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 12:37:53PM -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 12:26 PM Karen Lewellen
>  wrote:
> >
> > You are entitled to your opinion, which I respect.
> > Given how some choose to answer, speaking personally, If they wanted to be
> > here, they would already be here.
> 
> Well, I think it is good troubleshooting.
> 
> The first problem your associate is going to have is, you will
> mis-state or mis-translate the problem. Then, the next problem your
> associate is going to have is, you will mis-state or mis-translate the
> answer you got from the list. All you are doing is muddying the waters
> and complicating the process.
> 
> The first thing I would do is get you out of the equation, and deal
> directly with the mailing list for the problems at hand.
> 

This is a mail which I am writing as a member of the Debian Community Team.
I would like to remind you - and all involved in this discussion - of the
Debian Code of Conduct and mailing list code of conduct.

One thing that is asked of all of us is to be respectful and constructive.
I think the above two paragraphs are not constructive and are impolite.

I would ask you to consider carefully that this does not show you in your best
light and was unnecessary. At the end of every email is another human being:
each of us has different experience, needs, and an absolutely individual
experience of Debian. Karen has her own needs: I don't think that this 
particular exchange has been helpful and doesn't show this list in a 
good light.

if you were to meet in a social setting, would you feel as justified in
being blunt? If not, then please also reconsider your tone for the 
future: not every email needs to be replied to, certainly not in this way
if you cannot add anything useful.

Andy Cater
[For the Community Team]
but that actually these comments were unnecessary. 

> But suit yourself. I don't have a dog in this fight.
> 
> > On Tue, 28 Nov 2023, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 7:02 PM Karen Lewellen  
> > > wrote:
> > >> [...]
> > >> There is an associate in Toronto who is aiming to provide an email setup,
> > >> configuring alpine to access gmail, but he has never configured alpine 
> > >> before.
> > >
> > > Your associate should join the list and then state problems and ask
> > > questions directly.
> > >
> 

Re: vanilla to sid

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 02:22:16AM +1000, Michael Thompson wrote:
> Dear Debian,
> 
> I have sent a few emails already, but I suspect I've been talking to the
> wrong person...
> I'm sure there's a way (on gmail) to forward an email I've sent, to an
> additional recipient, but for the life of me, I can't see it.
> This is clumsy, but so am I.
> 
> Dear Debian,
> Hello guys, sorry to bring this up and bother you again, but 
> Using sid with the aarnet.edu.au mirror, and an update took out my
> networking. That was about 14 hours ago.
> No way to get updates or fixes... leave it a while, and reinstall ~ from
> the 12.2 netinstall.
> After the 3rd or 4th, I started doing a VirtualBox clone of a base Debian
> stable, and then playing with that. Easier than doing the whole install &
> upgrade.
> First attempt, I set the aarnet mirror up in sources.list  for install, but
> changed it to
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free
> ~ and that's all. The problem persists. It isn't a problem with the
> Australian mirror. It has been going on for nearly a day now.
> If you would like (let me know) I will clone it again and do the
> dist-upgrade to full sid and then investigate as you suggest, but ... For
> now, I'm just letting you know that sid has networking that's broken. I
> don't know what is broken, but it takes out your whole networking and
> network cards / adaptors.
> 

Check your /etc/apt/sources.list - it has changed in Bookworm to allow for
non free firmware. If you have no firmware then it wifi might be impacted?
Read the release notes.

Update from a minimal 12.2 -> testing and testing -> unstable and then
add extra packages.

In general, if you work with sid, you are absolutely expected to be able
to support yourself - there may be periodic major breakage.

If it breaks, you really do get to keep both pieces :) 

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater
> Yours respectfully, Mike
> --
> Dear Debian,
> 
> Minor update. I made a clone, and I added the backports repo, but not the
> sid.
> That's working fine.
> ---
> mike@debian:~$ sudo apt update
> [sudo] password for mike:
> Hit:1 http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/debian bookworm InRelease
> Hit:2 http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/debian bookworm-updates InRelease
> Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports InRelease [56.5 kB]
> Hit:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security InRelease
> Fetched 56.5 kB in 1s (103 kB/s)
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> All packages are up to date.
> mike@debian:~$ uname -a
> Linux debian 6.5.0-0.deb12.1-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian
> 6.5.3-1~bpo12+1 (2023-10-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux
> mike@debian:~$
> 
> Repeat, there is no issue with the networking if you stick to the
> backports, but if you do a full dist-upgrade to sid, all your networking
> stops and most of your networking tools seem to be missing. The things you
> normally do to investigate, like ifconfig ~ return words to the effect that
> command is not recognised.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Mike
> 
> Dear Debian,
> 
> Thank you for your patience.
> Minor update.
> I have been fiddling, and I found a way to make it work.
> Then I thought maybe the Debian team simply fixed it at their end, and the
> 'problem' no longer exists. So I made another clone of vanilla Debian and I
> tried the normal update / upgrade to sid, and that ran through with the
> exact same result as before. We have a 'tasting' clone that has no working
> network.
> So ~ How did I make it work?
> Start with the modify /etc/apt/sources.list. change that to read sid rather
> than bookworm, and remove all the other lines.
> sudo apt update
> sudo apt --list upgradeable
> Now, start at the bottom of the list. write sudo apt install, then go copy
> the package name of the item to be upgraded. Stop at the '/unstable' .
> Paste that after the apt install. Don't stop at one, there's about 800
> packages to upgrade... Do them in batches of roughly a dozen. try to keep
> things together that obviously belong together ~ eg, all the Mate desktop
> stuff can go through in one install.
> I did start by updating the kernel, and build-essential. Then I updated the
> network-manager because I thought that was maybe the problem.
> Reboot after every few updates, update them about 10 ~ 12 at a time it
> does take a  while, but after a mid point, the numbers start to come down
> fairly quickly because of things brought in as dependencies and such.
> If you would like me to get and send you my bash history, so you can see
> exactly how I bumbled my way through it, let me know. It did take well over
> an hour
> 
> *** This is from a sid upgrade that has not worked. This is the state it's
> in now. ***
> 
> mike@debian:~$ ip adr show
> Object "adr" is 

Re: Temporary failure in name resolution error when I try to ping Debian 12 / DomU running on top of the Devuan 5 host os / Dom0

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2023 at 10:54:08PM +0100, Mario Marietto wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I'm trying to configure Debian 12 / DomU on my (Arm32) Chromebook because I
> want to use the Internet and I want its IP address to be seen from
> "outside" of my LAN.
> 
> This is the tutorial that I'm following :
> 


I'm pleased for you that it now appears to be working so this comment comes
after the fact.

You are asking three separate questions here, in some sense:

You have a Chromebook - so ChromeOS underlying everything, potentially

A Xen subsystem running Devuan - note, not Debian

A Debian 12 as the guest OS?

The number of folk on this list with a Chromebook is small, potentially.
The number with Xen experience is a subset of that.
The number with Devuan experience is a subset of that.

You were very fortunate indeed that someone here was able to resolve anything.

For the future:

* For Devuan, please ask their support channels on IRC -
https://www.devuan.org/os/community
 or their mailing lists on DNG -
 https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

* Ask _their_ experts for expertise with Xen under Devuan

After you have exhausted Devuan expertise, please write up what advice
you have already received and then come to Debian.

As often reiterated here: this mailing list only has significant expertise
in Debian, and  not necessarily every Debian-derived distribution. Please use
appropriate sources for advice if you practicably can
 
>

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy

(amaca...@debian.org)
  
> A) on the host os (Devuan 5)
> 
> Linux devuan-bunsen 6.1.61-stb-xen-cbe+ #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Nov  4 13:46:17
> EDT 2023 armv7l
> 
> root@devuan-bunsen:~# ifconfig
> 
> lo: flags=73  mtu 65536
>inet 127.0.0.1  netmask 255.0.0.0
>inet6 ::1  prefixlen 128  scopeid 0x10
>loop  txqueuelen 1000  (Local Loopback)
>RX packets 2729  bytes 8279984 (7.8 MiB)
>RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
>TX packets 2729  bytes 8279984 (7.8 MiB)
>TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
> 
> mlan0: flags=4163  mtu 1500
>inet 192.168.1.7  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.1.255
>inet6 fe80::8839:239b:9b37:cf84  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20
>RX packets 19694  bytes 2193230 (2.0 MiB)
>RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
>TX packets 18757  bytes 10464406 (9.9 MiB)
>TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
> 
> vif4.0: flags=4163  mtu 1500
>inet 192.168.1.7  netmask 255.255.255.255  broadcast 192.168.1.255
>ether fe:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
>RX packets 359  bytes 94924 (92.6 KiB)
>RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
>TX packets 42  bytes 1764 (1.7 KiB)
>TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
> 
> nano debian.cfg :
> 
> kernel = '/Dati/xen/kernels/zImage-6.1.61-stb-xen-cbe+'
> memory = '768'
> name = 'Debian-bookworm'
> vcpus = '1'
> disk = [ '/Dati/xen/debian.img,,xvda,w' ]
> vif = [ 'type=vif,mac=00:16:3e:12:34:56,script=vif-route' ]
> extra = 'console=hvc0 root=/dev/xvda rw init=/sbin/init
> xen-fbfront.video=24,1024,768'
> 
> 
> nano /etc/xen/scripts/vif-route-local :
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> #
> # ${XEN_SCRIPT_DIR}/vif-route
> #
> # Script for configuring a vif in routed mode.
> #
> # Usage:
> # vif-route (add|remove|online|offline)
> #
> # Environment vars:
> # dev vif interface name (required).
> # XENBUS_PATH path to this device's details in the XenStore (required).
> #
> # Read from the store:
> # ip  list of IP networks for the vif, space-separated (default given in
> # this script).
> #
> 
> dir=$(dirname "$0")
> . "${dir}/vif-common.sh"
> #netdev=$(mlan0)
> main_ip=$(dom0_ip)
> case "${command}" in
> add|online)
> echo $dev
>   echo $ip
> echo $main_ip
> ifconfig ${dev} ${main_ip} netmask 255.255.255.255 up
> echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/${dev}/proxy_arp
> echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/${dev}/forwarding
> echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/mlan0/forwarding
> echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/mlan0/proxy_arp
> /usr/sbin/arp -i mlan0 -Ds $main_ip mlan0 pub
> ipcmd='add'
> cmdprefix=''
> ;;
> remove|offline)
> do_without_error ifdown ${dev}
> ipcmd='del'
> cmdprefix='do_without_error'
> ;;
> esac
> 
> case "${type_if}" in
> tap)
> metric=1
> ;;
> vif)
> metric=2
> ;;
> *)
> fatal "Unrecognised interface type ${type_if}"
> ;;
> esac
> 
> # If we've been given a list of IP addresses, then add routes from dom0 to
> # the guest using those addresses.
> for addr in ${ip} ; do
> ${cmdprefix} ip route ${ipcmd} ${addr} dev ${dev} src ${main_ip} metric
> ${metric}
> done
> 
> handle_iptable
> 
> call_hooks vif post

Re: UFW/GFW Doesn't start up after running previously

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Nov 18, 2023 at 08:25:10AM -0500, marathon wrote:
> Using Debian Bookworm, on Lenovo X280 laptop. Each time after cold startup 
> or from suspend, I've found the ufw software is turned off and blocks all 
> network activity in that state.
> Does anyone have any idea why? Can I provide further information?
> 
> Thanks.
>

What script turns on ufw - if you have to restart ufw, what commands do you
run?

if it's something like systemd starting a service, then you need to make
that service persistent, perhaps.

In some sense, much better to fail closed for firewall software than to
fail open.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater 

Re: approx in debian 12

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 08:28:51PM +, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 02:02:10PM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 05:18:02PM +, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > > Should we report an error regarding the approx man page which states:
> > 
> 
> Whatever release of approx I have running on the Debian-9 machine
> works flawlessly, but I do hope to upgrade the Debian version on that
> machine.  I suppose I could reinstall on my planned replacement, and
> see whether approx still works with Debian-11, or go back to
> Debian-10, if necessary.
> 
Just on this: please _don't_ go backwards in release version unless this
is an isolated machine that's never going to connect to anything else -
Debian _should_ improve with each version and certainly there are 
security updates and bug fixes with each point release.

Debian 9 is out of main security support and even out of LTS - 
https://wiki.debian.org/LTS .

In order to update that, you'd need to update to 10 then 11, then 12.

Potentially, build a replacement machine with 12 and work on it, then
perhaps decommission the 9 and reformat to 12?

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater


> RLH
> 

Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 04:01:47PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> On 11/11/23 08:52, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 10:22:07PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 11/10/23 19:46, David Christensen wrote:
> > > > On 11/8/23 02:20, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > Are these 2TB SSDs or hard disks? I would counsel very strongly indeed
> > against using any ARM-based single board computer as a RAID device on
> > USB connections - they're just *not* up to it.
> 

This at least partly because the USB devices on, say, a Raspberry Pi
tend to share I/O and resources. On a Pi, USB3 takes away from the 
Ethernet, for example.

> 
> On 11/11/23 09:05, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > I don't think the issue is whether they're ARM based.
> >
> > The issue is simply how you connect the disks: in my experience, disks
> > connected via USB are simply not quite up to a 24/7 situation,
> > especially if the disk is USB-powered.
> 

Right.
> 
> >
> > I have 4 SSD drives connected to a single RPI4 currently, using a
> > powered USB hub.
> >

SSD significantly different to HDD. 
> 
> 
> On 11/11/23 10:47, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > Hmm...  so maybe the USB connection is not directly relevant either
> > and the real issue is the power?
> 
> 
> An obvious difference between internal and external drives is physical
> protection.  Internal drives and cables are protected.  Everything gets
> power from the same source (PSU, PCU fed by dual PSU, etc.).  External
> drives, cables, and power adapters can be moved, yanked, disconnected,
> dropped, kicked, subjected to electrostatic discharge, etc..  There are more
> parts to fail and more opportunities for failure with external drives than
> with internal drives.
> 

This is what I meant: this is why the devices from QNAP / Synology that
are plug and play NAS are also built this way. The Synology devices
can take lots of added modules, seemingly - it all seems expensive
but these are designed for plugging in  and the whole thing "just working".

> 
> It is not uncommon for communications establishment to fail with external
> drives.  Similarly, communications re-establishment when the computer and/or
> drive resume from a power saving mode.  Writing and testing this kind of
> software is difficult and you need people with both both CS and EE skills.
> There is an astronomical number of combinations to design and test for.  The
> code runs rarely.  For reliable 24x365 operations, the challenge is
> eliminating everything that can cause communications establishment/
> re-establishment -- operator steps, computer configuration, drive
> configuration, power failures, cooling failures, etc..  If you can find and
> eliminate all of them, a USB external drive can stay connected a very long
> time.
> 

*If* is very much the word, I think.
> 
> 
> I have always liked ATX tower cases with lots of drive bays, both internal
> and external.  Over time, more products have become available with good
> cooling and low noise.  I have not found a major computer manufacturer who
> makes servers with all of those features, so I build my own:
> 
> * Fractal Design Define R5 case
> * 3 @ Fractal Design low-speed 140 mm fans
> * Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 660 W power supply
> * Intel S1200V3RP motherboard
> * Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3 series processors
> * Dual channel ECC memory
> * LSI 9207-8i HBA with "IT mode" non-RAID firmware
> * Seagate Barracuda and Constellation ES.2 HDD's
> * Intel 520 Series SSD's
> * StarTech 2.5" and 3.5" mobile racks
> * Cable Matters black SATA 6 Gbps cables with locking connectors
> 
> 
> They are not cheap, small, or light, but they perform well, are easy to work
> on, are reasonably quiet, and everything stays cool.  They have plenty of
> capacity for future upgrades.
> 

Nice parts list and good suggestions.
> 
> 
> SSD RAID10 is very impressive when everything else matches.  Backups over a
> Gigabit LAN onto SATA III SSD RAID10 does not make sense because Gigabit
> Ethernet is rated for 1 Gbps read/ write and a SATA III SSD RAID10 is rated
> for 24 Gbps read and 12 Gbps write.  I would put HDD's in the backup server
> and put the SSD's in the workstation.
> 
> 
> David
>

there's no doubt that you can do the same with some ARM boards - maybe
the RockPro which has PCIe?? but not with the majority.

Anyway, let's leave folks to build what works for them: the one thing
I've learned from much of this list is that we're all unique in our
requirements, even if we have much in common.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy 

Re: Debian GNU/Linux Books

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 01:35:25AM -0500, Timothy M Butterworth wrote:
> All,
> 
> I have been looking for commercial books written about Debian and there is
> very little selection. I am considering writing an updated Debian GNU/Linux
> Bible for Bookworm/Trixie. Before I started writing it I was wondering if
> anyone would even be interested in buying a copy of it?
> 

I've been into a couple of the largest bookshops in UK in the last few
months - there are fewer and fewer physical books on shelves.

A Debian specific book would be welcome - but the Debian Handbook already
covers much of that. We may end up with refugees from Red Hat distros in
due course but learning apt covers much of that. (If you can use
GNOME in one distro, it's similar in all - and I'm not sure when
Ubuntu last published a handbook, for example).

The big Linux System Administration Handbook - the one with three authors
including Evi Nemeth - is a really good example of something with masses
of good general information but almost nobody has it.

O'Reilly books are primarily online now: I think it would be hard to find
a niche that would fit a new book or a physical book publisher to take it
(and no, I'm not thinking of the average print on demand publisher who
mostly specialises in of out of copyright books, though that might be
an option).

The Red Hat certification market has three or four books: it might be
that maddog and the Linux Professional Institute would be interested
as their courses cover all distros.

Yes, I'd probably buy a copy - I have a physical copy of most of the
Debian books that there are. The most useful at one point was probably
the O'Reilly one which came with a CD.

I do tend to rely on the knowledge and expertise here: Greg - how
would you rate the chances of physical copies of your Bash guides,
for example?

All the very best, as ever,

> Thanks
> 
> Tim
> 
> -- 
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 10:22:07PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/10/23 19:46, David Christensen wrote:
> > On 11/8/23 02:20, gene heskett wrote:
> > > And I just looked at tht pair, and acc gparted they have both been
> > > pvcreated, so I'll leave then alone and steal the dvd cable, puttin
> > > a new 2T drive if I can rig power to it.
> > 
> > 
> > As I previously suggested, and as you previously seemed agreeable to, I
> > think you should stop working on the Asus and build a backup server.
> > 
> I'm thinking of making a slow one out of a headless bananapi-5 with a 2T on
> every usb3 port as a raid, type to be determined, I rather like the idea of
> parity being striped across all 4 disks. I have the drives but not sure of
> the usb-sata adapters, need to goto the garage and retrieve that box. That,
> and there's only one of me ;o)>  And me is 89 yo with a worn out body. A
> pacemaker and some new parts in my heart too.
> 

Gene,

Are these 2TB SSDs or hard disks? I would counsel very strongly indeed 
against using any ARM-based single board computer as a RAID device on
USB connections - they're just *not* up to it.

Get a cheap barebones system that you add memory to in a small-ish size 
case with SATA cables to motherboard ports that's Intel/AMD based that
you can then put disks into to format. If you can't get a barebones,
at least get a second hand machine in a tower case.

Build a simple Debian system on one disk there to format other disks :)
Once you've built a simple Debian system there, you can add mdadm RAID
and use it as a backup storage device to copy off your /home and so on. 

> Startech adapters are working very well to a pair of smaller SSD's on the
> rpi4b that runs my old (80+) Sheldon 11"x54" lathe, teaching it new tricks
> it never dreamed of doing 80+ years ago. Metric or imperial, it doesn't
> care.  Even cuts threads I've invented.  I have a complete linuxcnc buildbot
> on that pi. The latest bpi runs at 2 gigahertz which is about twice as fast
> as the pi's.

USB adapters will work well until you are _absolutely_ reliant on them,
then there will be a problem in my experience :(
> 
> > > This mobo also claims to be able to do the intel version of a raid
> > > on its own sata ports.  Does anyone here have experience doing that?
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, but I prefer software RAID -- because I can move the disks to
> > another computer with different hardware and the arrays will still work.
> >  Hardware RAID typically requires compatible hardware.
> > 

Yes, absolutely agreed with David on this.

> > 
> > David
> > 
> > .
> Understood before hand.  Thanks David, take care & stay well.
> 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
[amaca...@debian.org]
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> 

Uninstalling unwanted PHP and mariadb packages [WAS Re: How could the missing MySQL extension required by WordPress be installed?]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 05:44:29PM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote:
> Apologise for the typos and incorrect sentence constructions in my
> earlier post. But I am sure that Mr.  would be able to bypass the
> errors to extract the information intended for him.
> 
> My synaptic has a Log file for the installed packages yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> Commit Log for Fri Nov 10 21:04:10 2023
> 
> Upgraded the following packages:
> mariadb-common (1:10.5.18-0+deb11u1) to 1:10.5.21-0+deb11u1
> 
> Installed the following packages:
> default-mysql-server (1.0.7)
> galera-4 (26.4.11-0+deb11u1)
> libcgi-fast-perl (1:2.15-1)
> libcgi-pm-perl (4.51-1)
> libconfig-inifiles-perl (3.03-1)
> libdbd-mariadb-perl (1.21-3)
> libdbi-perl (1.643-3+b1)
> libfcgi-bin (2.4.2-2)
> libfcgi-perl (0.79+ds-2)
> libfcgi0ldbl (2.4.2-2)
> libhtml-template-perl (2.97-1.1)
> libterm-readkey-perl (2.38-1+b2)
> mariadb-client-10.5 (1:10.5.21-0+deb11u1)
> mariadb-client-core-10.5 (1:10.5.21-0+deb11u1)
> mariadb-server-10.5 (1:10.5.21-0+deb11u1)
> mariadb-server-core-10.5 (1:10.5.21-0+deb11u1)
> socat (1.7.4.1-3)
> 
> 
> 
> Commit Log for Fri Nov 10 21:13:50 2023
> 
> Installed the following packages:
> default-mysql-server-core (1.0.7)
> 
> 
> 
> Commit Log for Fri Nov 10 21:25:16 2023
> 
> Installed the following packages:
> php-common (2:76)
> php-mysql (2:7.4+76)
> php7.4-common (7.4.33-1+deb11u4)
> php7.4-mysql (7.4.33-1+deb11u4)
> 
> 
> 
> Commit Log for Fri Nov 10 21:37:54 2023
> 
> Installed the following packages:
> apache2 (2.4.56-1~deb11u2)
> apache2-bin (2.4.56-1~deb11u2)
> apache2-data (2.4.56-1~deb11u2)
> apache2-utils (2.4.56-1~deb11u2)
> libapr1 (1.7.0-6+deb11u2)
> libaprutil1 (1.6.1-5+deb11u1)
> libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3 (1.6.1-5+deb11u1)
> libaprutil1-ldap (1.6.1-5+deb11u1)
> liblua5.3-0 (5.3.3-1.1+deb11u1)
> 
> 
> 
> Commit Log for Fri Nov 10 21:44:41 2023
> 
> Installed the following packages:
> php-cli (2:7.4+76)
> php-db (1.10.0-1)
> php-pear (1:1.10.12+submodules+notgz+20210212-1)
> php-xml (2:7.4+76)
> php7.4-cli (7.4.33-1+deb11u4)
> php7.4-json (7.4.33-1+deb11u4)
> php7.4-opcache (7.4.33-1+deb11u4)
> php7.4-readline (7.4.33-1+deb11u4)
> php7.4-xml (7.4.33-1+deb11u4)
> 
> 
> So what do I need to do to clean-uninstall them all?
> 
> Possible?
>

I'd suggest you remove 

php-common
apache2 
apache2-bin
apache2-data
mariadb-client-10.5

and then an apt autoremove.

Then perhaps an apt-purge apache2 .. and so on.
Then go back and remove any outlying packages that have not already been
removed until you have no more left.

For the future - for any reader of this list, not just Rajib:

If you don't know quite what you're installing and a single package installs
lots of other packages, stop and consider before you install. Meta-packages
like desktops pull in lots of dependencies, but so, as you've seen does
PHP

If you're really not sure: read lots then ask. If you say 

"I want to do X. I think that means I need to install Y and configure Z.
>From reading ABC pages, I _think_ that means that I need to do the 
following but I'm not sure because page C says to do this and I don't
understand. I'm running Debian 12.2 updated this week. "

 - it becomes a lot easier to understand what you want.

If you explain _exactly_ what error messages you get and how you get them
that helps significantly. If you've done a web search and found a possible
answer or that other people have had a similar problem, add that in. 

"I'm getting error message DEF from running this command. From the net,
it looks as if other people have been having similar problems on older
versions of Debian but not recently - am I reading this correctly" 

It shows that you have made an attempt to problem solve for yourself and
people will be more willing to help and explain their suggestions.
If the advice you get solves a problem - post that back to the list
in the thread and change the message subject slightly to make it
clear that this is an answer. For example:

[SOLVED] Package foo fails to install in Debian 12.2. [Was: Cannot install
 foo]

It is always possible that no-one else has ever seen anything similar. The
advice you get from people here may always be a best guess as to a solution.
The more clearly you can give information, the easier the problem solving
becomes.

If you have to ask lots of questions around the same subject, consider
stopping and writing a summary post to write down what you've learned
and solutions you have tried so far.

SUMMARY - Package bar still failing to install after several tries

"I have been given solution A in a post in this thread on November 1st.
I did this but then got error message B - see post on November 3rd
 so I did C on November 4th. The problem I have now is that the
error message is DE" 

Hope this helps,

Andy

[amaca...@debian.org]

Re: How to use dmsetuup?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Nov 08, 2023 at 05:20:47AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/8/23 00:34, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 07, 2023 at 07:19:40PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:


> > 
> Sounds good.
> However I may go a different route. I have a not installed 2T WD-Black SN770
> NVMe SSD, format 2280. This Asus prime z370-A II modo has two M2 sockets
> which the docs say both can use a 2280, but they operate differently w/o
> really explaining the difference. The one in the middle of the board, the A
> socket 2_2 looks like I have to pull the CPU and its radiator to be able to
> really get to it, and actually only shows how to install in the lower 2_1
> socket which also has a heat sinking cover that must be removed &
> reinstalled. Is this then the preferred location, or is there an advantage
> to the other socket nearer the CPU?.
> 

Double check - sometimes one socket may be intended primarily for "other"
M2 devices. There shouldn't be any particular difference
between the two - one is obviously easier to reach than the other.
Occasionally, having two may mean that they run slightly slower.

> They are empty except for the ext4 install and if pvcreate just slams the
> new format regardless, I'll rsync the 2T /home back to the raid10, and
> unplug that controller before I put the install dvd in. I also have another
> sata controller, this one with all 16 ports installed.
> 

It might be sensible to think about rebuilding the machine to use _one_
controller. If the 16 port controller has a JBOD mode, use that and
use mdadm. Splitting between some MB SATA ports, some on a card may not
be efficient. [JBOD == "just a bunch of disks" == no RAID intelligence
applied by the card itself]

> And I just looked at tht pair, and acc gparted they have both been
> pvcreated, so I'll leave then alone and steal the dvd cable, puttin a new 2T
> drive if I can rig power to it.
> This mobo also claims to be able to do the intel version of a raid on its
> own sata ports.  Does anyone here have experience doing that?

"Motherboard RAID" is not portable - mdadm is at least as efficient.
On the one machine I have that has "motherboard RAID", it's effectively
something like mdadm but writes some signature to the disk that means
it can only be read by that software. A "proper" RAID controller has
large amounts of RAM, battery backup - they generally cost $$$
> 
> Thanks Tomas
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy

[amaca...@debian.org]

> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> 

Re: Installing on Radxa Rock Pi 4B using SD-card-images

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Nov 06, 2023 at 09:32:05AM +0800, jeremy ardley wrote:
> 
> On 6/11/23 06:26, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > I think you've hit the curse of almost all ARM single board computers.
> > Almost all are small production runs / out of East Asia somewhere as
> > "prototypes"** with a board support package (BSP) that's probably just
> > the manufacturer's kernel, u-boot and dtbs.
> 
> 
> If that was all it was at, it would be livable.
> 
> But the new series of boards are coming with NPU processors and this
> necessitates using closed source driver component (some parts are open but
> not all)
> 

For future readers of the list: I had to search for the meaning of an NPU and
found this reference helpful - 
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/ai-101-gpu-vs-tpu-vs-npu/ - no further opinions 
as to the company behind it.

NPU - Neural Processing Unit - chip designed for AI use.

> As a corollary many packages have been tweaked to use the proprietary GPU
> and NPU stuff. As a consequence, in my case with a NanoPC-T6, I get on apt
> upgrade
> 
> The following packages have been kept back:
>   ffmpeg ffmpeg-doc ir-keytable libavcodec-dev libavcodec58 libavdevice-dev
> libavdevice58 libavfilter-dev
>   libavfilter7 libavformat-dev libavformat58 libavresample-dev
> libavresample4 libavutil-dev libavutil56
>   libdrm-dev libdvbv5-doc libpostproc-dev libpostproc55 libswresample-dev
> libswresample3 libswscale-dev
>   libswscale5 libv4l-0 libv4l-dev qv4l2 v4l-utils xserver-common
> xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-dev
>   xserver-xorg-legacy
> 

I'm unsure what can be done - most of those are audio/video coding programs
and camera support. It might be that the move to Wayland compositing *might*
help with the xorg - or maybe that you don't run X 

The problems continue ...

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
> 

Re: Debian support for ARM SBCs (was: Installing on Radxa Rock Pi 4B using SD-card-images)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Nov 05, 2023 at 06:39:46PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > The way round this is to build u-boot or reverse-enginer the settings then
> > do the same for a kernel, dtb and then debootstrap Debian yourself
> >  - that's exactly the sort of thing that folk do to get their boards 
> > "supported in Debian" - folk like vagrantc and gwolf.
> > Painful isn't in it - there's a reason why there are relatively few
> > boards supported in the SD card images list.
> 
> BTW, do you happen to know of a good resource/URL/mailinglist for that
> specific task, both to find info about supported boards (and *how* they
> are supported) but also in case I want to help add support for the
> boards I happen to have around?
> 
> 

Hi Stefan,

On IRC, there's #debian-arm on OFTC
There's the debian-arm mailing list

Probably some of the regular "State of the ARM" videos at pretty much
every Debconf (now also available on Peertube and YouTube).

It probably doesn't help that the community is small - a chat around
Steve's BBQ in Cambridge every year probably yields world expertise :(
(Sledge, unixsmurf on IRC both worked for ARM for many years, Wookey
still does).

I don't know who vagrantc (Vagrant Cascadian) works/worked for but always
a useful person.

Asking on the Debian resources above is probably as good as any.

All the very best,

Andy 

> Stefan
> 

Re: Installing on Radxa Rock Pi 4B using SD-card-images

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 12:22:36PM -0400, Daniel Gnoutcheff wrote:
> > The best answer is if the board has been supported for a while by
> > Armbian then that is probably a better choice than a less well
> > supported/documented manufacturer specific build of Debian.
> 
> Oh, I should clarify.  By "official Debian binaries and images" I meant
> to say "pure" or "mainline" Debian as distributed from *.debian.org. Yes, a
> bespoke "Debian" image from the hardware vendor is, indeed, out of the
> question.  ARMbian is better, but I know and deeply trust the Debian project
> and would prefer to use their releases over those from a derivative like
> ARMbian.
> 

I think you've hit the curse of almost all ARM single board computers.
Almost all are small production runs / out of East Asia somewhere as
"prototypes"** with a board support package (BSP) that's probably just
the manufacturer's kernel, u-boot and dtbs.

** Pine64, I'm looking at you: I have to buy from an EU distributor
to get longer than 30 days support.

With the caveat of almost no upstream support, Armbian will package the BSP
and do their best.

The manufacturer may have their "own" Debian remix but you're on your own
when it comes to adding "official" Debian packages.

The way round this is to build u-boot or reverse-enginer the settings then
do the same for a kernel, dtb and then debootstrap Debian yourself
 - that's exactly the sort of thing that folk do to get their boards 
"supported in Debian" - folk like vagrantc and gwolf.
Painful isn't in it - there's a reason why there are relatively few
boards supported in the SD card images list.

This is one of the reasons why only some of the BananaPi variants are
supported - there's a new variant very regularly and the amount of work
needed to get a board supported can be significant. If nobody has that
board, it's going to be hard to get support, for example.
[That's also why I keep asking Gene whether he's running vanilla Debian
or not].

> Thanks,
> Daniel G.
>

Good luck with it all

Andy 

Re: mirror for debian 10

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Nov 05, 2023 at 04:51:22AM +, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> I need to install Debian on a old machine (1700 Mhz Celeron).  I
> copied the installer image to USB stick and the installation appeared
> to go properly until I tried without success to find a Debian mirror
> which hosts Debian 10.
> 
> RLH
>

Hi Russell,

I have a local mirror here which includes 10. That is synched from the
country level mirror.

If the CDN isn't working for you, use http://ftp.XX.debian.org where XX
is your country so ftp.us.debian.org, for example.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy

[amaca...@debian.org] 

Re: How to use dmsetuup?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 12:27:19PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE syndrome,
> meaning No D-d Examples.
> 
> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as
> sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2
> 

How big is your /home - is it bigger than 2T? 

Do you need both drives to provide redundant storage - or is it just 
a temporary storage place for /home while you get the rest of the RAID
devices sorted out?

If I were you, I wouldn't start from here :)

Don't mount them as individual drives.

pvcreate to initialise each physical drive as a drive reserved for lvm

pvcreate /dev/sdc1
pvcreate /dev/sdk1

vgcreate to create a logical volume

vgcreate HomeVolgroup /dev/sdc1 /dev/sdk1

Then use lvcreate to create the logical volume itself.

See also https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/LVM

Use lvm to do this: that's *exactly* what it's designed for - to allow you
to add volumes and extend disk sizes.

This is exactly how partman does it when you install. (In fact, you could do 
this quite well by rebooting to recovery and using that method to reformat 
the drives).

> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these to
> make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch fstab

See above: 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
[amaca...@debian.org]

> to mount it as /home on a reboot?
> 
> If it works, I'll kill the raid10, reformat it and make it another lvm for
> amanda to use.
> 
> I am determined to remove the raid10 /home from the list of suspects causing
> my system lockups anytime a program such as OpenSCAD or digiKam, even
> firefox wants to write a new file to my /home partition.  This delay does
> not lockup the whole shebang, already open files in other workspaces seem to
> run at normal speeds, but opening a simple gui file requester to get where
> to put the file, and possibly rename it, takes anywhere from 30 seconds
> minimum to around 5 minutes just to draw the requester on screen. And while
> you are waiting, wondering if you even pressed the mouse button, there is
> ZERO acknowledgement the button has been pushed.  The mouse can be moved
> normally, but until the requester is fully drawn on screen, no other button
> clicks are registered.
> 
> This software raid10 worked perfectly for buster and bullseye, but its been
> nothing but a headache on bookworm.  And only one has tried to help,
> suggesting strace, but its output is so copious it overflows the 32G of main
> memory in this machine so I can't go back to the actual programs start with
> the trace. I have used it in the past, decade or more back up the log, and
> while it was noisy then, this is unusable.
> 
> Thanks for help with dmsetup.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> 

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (modified 1st November 2023)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics. 

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:

* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing 
  lists that are language-specific, for example, debian-user-french 

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists, for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when 
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both 
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

* This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
  answer - please be patient. Please post answers back to the list so
  others can benefit; private conversations don't benefit people who
  may be following along on the list or reading the archives later.

* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
  you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone 
  else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.

* Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
   welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
   do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; do not
   assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
   Debian list.

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

* One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time
  is of the form:

  "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
   Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"

Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived, potentially
cached by Google and so on.

Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure that all copies
anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may only serve to
draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Problems?
=

Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
Debian Community Team .

Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

Re: Domain name to use on home networks

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 02:29:37PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 10/30/23 13:40, John Hasler wrote:
> > I wrote:
> > > Why do you have NetworkManager installed at all?
> > 
> > Gene writes:
> > > Std image dd'd to u-sd card install on the arm64 stuff, can't get away
> > > from it.
> > 
> > Why won't "sudo apt remove --purge network-manager" work for you?
> It did, but took the network down too after a reboot.  To make sure I do it
> right, whats next?
> 

systemd-networkd, maybe - see, for example, the Arch wiki at
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd-networkd

Andy

> Thanks John.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> 

Broadcom WiFi/Bluetooth BCM43142 issues

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 03:24:00PM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote:

Rajib,

Please note the change of subject.

> I have had a conversation with the Team ThinkPenguin for the wireless
> N model model. Their USB WiFi dongle is only for WiFi connectivity.
> Not for Bluetooth.
> 
> The team has been very transparent with sharing information, and I
> thank you for letting me know about such an empowering team surviving
> within the proprietary universe.
> 

The WiFi and Bluetooth connectivity for your laptop is almost certainly
all provided by the Broadcom chipset and the firmware it requires.

If not, it may be provided by the main laptop chipset - so maybe Intel?

You have been given (off list) a method for configuring kernel modules and
using DKMS to provide support when each kernel is updated.

You may need to download a firmware "blob" and place that in /lib/firmware

The method you've been given is by using module-assistant to automate
the process of building the kernel modules

> Since the wl module already has configured and restored the WiFi
> connectivity for my laptop, I wouldn't require the said dongle.
> 
> Shortly, I will post for configuring the Bluetooth connectivity for my
> HP laptop.
> 

So - you already have some of that in place: https://wiki.debian.org/wl

As root, you can run the command dmesg to see what the kernel finds at boot.
It produces a lot of output, so you can use grep to filter that.

What does the output of: 

dmesg | grep Bluetooth | less

produce for you - some of that should give you a clue as to what firmware
is found or is missing.

> So your support is all the more expected.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Rajib
>

With best wishes, as always

Andy Cater

[amaca...@debian.org] 

Summary of understanding the bootin problem [WAS Re: AW: Panic again]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 02:02:29PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> 

SUMMARY

After a lot of questions backwards and forwards:

Sophie has: 

A desktop machine with one user and regular backups.
It was originally running Debian 9 and has been updated to Debian 11.
It has booting problems: it doesn't boot from the latest kernel and hangs.
It does run if started from "recovery"

>From reading the replies: it sounds like a kernel panic with a screenful of
text. We don't know exactly what. The machine is an older machine if it
has been running since Debian 9. 

This could be from a number of causes: a misconfigured/failed update to
Debian 11, Grub not being installed properly, maybe even a boot partition
being full so that the kernel was not installed.

Suggestions made here:

* Boot from an external medium, run recovery from there and reinstall Grub.

For Sophie: chroot is a way of moving to and working from the filesystem
on disk once you have booted from an external medium like a USB stick.
If you use something else to boot from - the installer, for example, then
changes you run are in memory until you write them. The recovery mode of
the installer runs entirely in memory.

At one point you "change root" and pivot to the other filesystem.
If the filesystem you want to use is mounted at /target

cd /target
chroot .

Now you are running from /target filesystem 

* Run a complete install using the Debian 12 Bookworm installer 

This might be the easiest way forward but will need someone to work out
* how to write the install medium - netinst.iso from the Debian website -
* how to persuade the desktop machine to boot from something other
than the hard disk
> 

With every good wish, as ever,
> 
> I did only understand
> chroot.
> 
> Is this another kind of booting?
> 
> Does this repair
> DEBIAN?.
> 
> If yes
> what do I have to do?
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroot
> I did find this.
> 
> Good idea?
> 
> 
> Regards Sophie
> 
> 
> 

Andy
[amaca...@debian.org]
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Cindy Sue Causey 
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. Oktober 2023 21:22
> An: Debian Users 
> Betreff: Re: Panic again
> 
> On 10/26/23, Schwibinger Michael  wrote:
> >
> > Good afternoon
> > Thank You for help.
> >
> > I ll answer into Your email
> > with
> > +++
> >
> >
> > Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. Oktober 2023 12:04
> > An: Schwibinger Michael 
> > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Panic again any idea IV
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 10:59:09AM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> >> Good morning
> >>
> >> Thank You.
> >>
> >> I do booting.
> >> Crash.
> >> Bug report I did send.
> >>
> >
> > Hi Sophie,
> >
> > Thank you. You didn't really send a bug report
> >
> >
> > +++
> > I know.
> > But how can I produce a bug report
> > when the PC is frozen?
> 
> 
> An afterthought up top here: Is there a program that will snag and
> retain boot messages specifically geared toward systems that never
> fully boot? It seems like I've seen that topic come up and be answered
> one single time in the last ~25 years. I actually tried to find some
> form of that type of program the other day when I saw an earlier
> portion of this thread then. I was thinking, hoping maybe such a
> program could possibly be installed via chroot if it does exist.
> 
> Now my original thought..
> 
> Has chroot been suggested and/or attempted? I'm imagining that it was
> possibly yes, suggested.
> 
> If not, what about attempting a chroot to then next attempt apt or
> apt-get update then upgrade?
> 
> As a user who has occasionally battled issues, I know that, ideally,
> it would be nice, i.e. satisfying, to find the cause of bigger issues
> like this. At some point, I also know firsthand that outing the cause
> becomes less important when weighed against moving on in Life. :)
> 
> Apt/apt-get upgrade via chroot would potentially help preserve a
> particular setup rather than going with a new install if that is why
> this continues to be a topic.
> 
> If anyone can think of a reason why running apt/apt-get in chroot
> would only stand to cause data harm in this particular situation, that
> would be great to know.
> 
> My firsthand experience has been that tinkering via chroot has
> eventually gotten me back up and running maybe 99% of the time,
> including against multiple kernel panic-ish fails a few years ago.
> 
> Biggest reason my chroot repair attempts ever failed was due to not
> properly mounting maybe 4 or 5 basic necessities that apt/apt-get use
> to properly install programs. /dev and /proc come first to mind as
> examples there. That knowledge came from working through the manual
> steps necessary during debootstrap installs, in case that ever helps
> anyone else.
> 
> Cindy :)
> --
> Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
> * runs with a retirement state of mind *
> 

Re: Which Network Controller Card handling Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc., connectivities, is GNU/Linux Approved/certified, and would be (1) compatible with my HP laptop's motherboard, and (2) could replace t

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 05:22:18PM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote:
> My dear Illustrious Leaders and Senior Members of the debian-user Mailing 
> List,
> 
> I would again return to my earlier post at:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00650.html
> 
> That is, the First Mail of this thread with the present Subject.
> 

Hello Rajib,

Please can you reduce the size of your subject line. You can make it
much shorter and still informative.

> I desire a Debian approved list for perfectly compatible
> Wireless-Bluetooth Cards. Like the PCI list, with the heading:
> DeviceDatabase/PCI - Debian Wiki
> at
> https://wiki.debian.org/DeviceDatabase/PCI
> 

There is no definitive list for "perfectly compatible" cards, unfortunately.
There is a list of cards that people have found to work but, as noted, HP
maintain an allowlist/denylist of cards that *they* approve.

> Why do I need to return to this thread? Because, unlike what Mr. Cater
> advised, in his post:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00679.html
> 
> the "firmware-b43-installer" isn't suitable for the card that my laptop has:
> 
> "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142
> 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card,
> 
> as the webpage https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/b43#contact
> for the "firmware-b43-installer"  mentions. The relevant portions of
> the said webpage may please be perused. On the webpage the list with
> the following columns has the following entries for the said chipset:
> PCI-ID Supported? Chip ID Modes PHY version Alternative
> 14e4:4365 no BCM43142 b/g/n LCN40 (r3) wl
> 
> That is, the said card of my laptop isn't supported by the
> "firmware-b43-installer". I have already posted a reply to Mr. Cater
> with the said information at:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00846.html
> 

Thanks for this. Again, a request - please *don't* address replies 
primarily to individuals - please address them to the list because
the list will archive the relevant information.

> I am still hoping, despite what Mr.Purgert suggests in his post:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00654.html, that I
> will be able to find a Debian-approved wireless networking card and
> that my HP laptop BIOS would allow it to be used instead of the native
> wireless card.
> 

Note that you have been given the solution using module-assistant by
someone else on the list.

> If every effort fails, I will try to procure a Frame.work customisable
> laptop for my use.
> 

That will be a very expensive workaround and you may face delays: I think
they have a backlog on orders. You may find also that people have had
varying experiences with their Framework - there's a very long post on
Debian Planet somewhere with a whole list of plusses and minuses.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
> Best wishes,
> Rajib,
> Etc.
>