Re: Xorg replaces TTY1
Le 22.11.2015 10:51, Bert Riding a écrit : On Sun, 22 Nov 2015 00:40:01 +0100, berenger.morel wrote: Hello. There is a behavior change I noticed when I switched to Jessie, which have always annoyed me but that I never tried to resolve. The change is that now, when I use startx on TTY1, Xorg replaces the TTY. I understand that it is not a problem for 99% of users, but I would like to know how to configure Debian to stay with the old behavior (aka: start Xorg on TTY 7+). Do someone have any clue about how to do that? Thanks. PS: I am not registed on this list, so please CC me. I too am not a fan of the new behavior. X now runs on the terminal from which it is started, so to run it on tty7 you must run a getty on tty7 and log in there first. Do this by editing /etc/inittab (if using init) or /etc/systemd/logind.conf (if using systemd.) Until the last month or so it was possible to use "startx -- tty24" to run X on tty24, accessed by AltGr-F12, for instance. This also no longer works. I now have tty24 listed as my ReserveVT in logind.conf so that a getty is run there and I can login and then run startx. There are undoubtedly other ways (like screen, perhaps) to open the tty you prefer. I see. But this trick won't prevent the me to be able to see what X11 print on screen, right? This is the reason I do not like this behavior. Like, for example, "/home/foo/.xinitrc: numlockx: not found", "failing to find font foo, falling back to bar", etc. Those messages that people not using big DEs can wish to access to (again, I know this is not the majority). Also, note that there is absolutely nothing about that in Debian release notes for Jessie. I tried to find something on the web about it too, but was never able to find anything relevant. I guess I did not used the good search terms.
Xorg replaces TTY1
Hello. There is a behavior change I noticed when I switched to Jessie, which have always annoyed me but that I never tried to resolve. The change is that now, when I use startx on TTY1, Xorg replaces the TTY. I understand that it is not a problem for 99% of users, but I would like to know how to configure Debian to stay with the old behavior (aka: start Xorg on TTY 7+). Do someone have any clue about how to do that? Thanks. PS: I am not registed on this list, so please CC me.
Re: Can't get sound to work
Le 16.01.2015 19:24, Robert Latest a écrit : On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:43:23 -0500 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: On 01/15/2015 03:54 PM, Hans wrote: First questions: Are you running pulseaudio or alsa? I don't know. I seem to have both on my system. I don't know what the difference is, or if one is running on top of the other, or if they are fighting over my soundcard. How would an application that wants to play sound figure out which system to use? There are several people more knowledgeable than me around here, but, AFAIK, alsa is the lowest level sound manager. If I am not wrong, pulse audio is built on it. Note that I never tried PA: alsa always worked just fine for me, so why should I try it? I understand the linux Audio stack like this: Alsa == OSS ^ | ^ / \ PA J Alsa is better (why? No idea, just what people says...) than OSS, and then you have 2 frameworks which works over Alsa. PulseAudio (PA, which seems to be POSIX and windows compatible), and Jack (J, which seems to be used by professional applications, for real-time stuff and other. If you simply want sound from flash-player, iceweasel and mplayer... well, removing PA may help you, and it will remove something you do not necessarily need. And, in my opinion, less code running on my computer means less surprises (on my computer), so it's the way I choose. But, I am a minimalist lover (well, at least in computing... for beers per example I have different tastes ;) ). Note that I have no opinion about the quality of pulse audio and jack. Plus, in some cases, I had problems with microphones with Alsa. Maybe in those situations PA or jack would have helped me. Never tried, it was not important enough for me. Maybe if the OP mv;d that file to another name, rebooted and ran alsamixer first, then add pavucontrol along with pulse, he might have a better experience, IMHO. I'll try that (have to install first). If it works, can I then purge all ALSA-related stuff from my system? Or could I also remove all pulse-related stuff and keep ALSA? If you purge alsa-related stuff, you will end with no sound at all. Alsa means Advanced Linux Sound Architecture. It seems to be a driver replacement for OSS. In short, it would be like removing your nouveau/nvidia/intel/whatever driver and trying to run Xorg or weston... Xorg and weston would be PA and Jack, the driver would be alsa. That's what I understand, at least. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/7336596ddab655b8d37400e9c49a9...@neutralite.org
Re: Have I been hacked?
Le 06.01.2015 19:04, Danny a écrit : However, I have a few other weird looking files in the /boot directory. Can you guys please have a look at them and tell me if they are normal or not. # drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4.0K Jan 6 19:35 . drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4.0K Jan 3 17:23 .. -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 6 19:03 aknaykocbs -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 1 11:34 bxerzoalfk -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 157K Dec 10 18:57 config-3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 132K Dec 8 00:36 config-3.2.0-4-686-pae -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Dec 20 08:04 cwpgfmvkrk -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Dec 30 22:41 czhlgmsgzh -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Dec 30 20:03 dkseypedtx -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 3 15:14 esijfkmwnd -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Dec 27 14:49 fndswijgdk -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root0 Dec 20 08:14 gbwokvqoch drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 12K Jan 3 17:23 grub -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 5 07:28 gyimenpwnt -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Dec 31 17:49 hjmmvaxfzq -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Dec 15 21:25 hutaslspbf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 14M Jan 3 17:25 initrd.img-3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11M Jan 2 22:01 initrd.img-3.2.0-4-686-pae -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 2 18:47 isrgzlchmx -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Dec 27 14:56 izytxsbskq -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 5 18:40 kvvcqvddix -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 1 11:19 ryrfvxjggh -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root0 Jan 5 19:08 sgopxfsiac -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.0M Dec 10 18:57 System.map-3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.6M Dec 8 00:36 System.map-3.2.0-4-686-pae -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Dec 30 20:40 ttqssdikcn -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root0 Dec 26 17:11 utxlhlmnix -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root0 Dec 12 07:29 vdqepbezvg -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9M Dec 10 18:56 vmlinuz-3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.6M Dec 8 00:35 vmlinuz-3.2.0-4-686-pae -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Dec 31 17:30 wevzubbsgn -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 1 09:46 xjeemjyuly -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 1 17:10 zfmpizunja -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 648K Jan 1 10:00 zkdjlvhuui -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root0 Dec 30 22:32 zpaqgbuxvr What bothers me is that the other files are all the same size (648k) as the suspected file I removed and they are very recent additions to the /boot directory. Thank You Danny Hello. Imho you can safely remove those files, which seems to be a random suite of characters. Oh, and, if your /boot is on another partition, just do not mount it automatically, or if it is really needed, mount it as read-only. If, really, really, you need to write on it frequently (except for kernel updates, I mean) then, you could add it a flag to avoid code execution from it, I think. I usually place the boot partition on a different partition for other reasons, like: _ putting there an ISO to boot in case of emergency (so I can boot on it, and install or repair a system without too many troubles) _ storing my lilo configuration file instead of /etc (useful, because lilo does not detect automatically other OSes... but it's far easier to customize than grub) _ and sometimes putting several kernels of several OSes in the same place (but this is not really useful since many many stuff goes in /lib anyway, plus, it tends to become messy to update my kernels since I have never tried to automatically ask to systems to put an OS's kernel in a subfolder. For Debian I think there might be a solution with hooks in the apt system... should search more about it someday). Obviously, I don't do that on VMs (mostly only default stuff there), so here is a ls command on a ls on a sane system: :/boot$ ls config-3.2.0-4-amd64 grub initrd.img-3.2.0-4-amd64 lost+found System.map-3.2.0-4-amd64 vmlinuz-3.2.0-4-amd64 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/fc7ec2ade72f1dd905daac4bdf4b4...@neutralite.org
Re: is sshd really restarting?
Le 18.12.2014 18:13, Harry Putnam a écrit : Setup: very new install of gentoo Why not asking on a gentoo list, instead of a Debian one? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/7a35f0549f7fcde370b17ce4e821b...@neutralite.org
Re: easiest way to shut down all network services besides ssh?
Le 18.12.2014 06:08, Britton Kerin a écrit : I have a system that I would like to make accessible only by ssh. No apache telnet ftp anything else. What is the easiest way to achieve this? It came from a vendor with a slew of package of all sorts, so I don't even know everything that I want to remove. Thanks, Britton Reinstalling a clean system is probably the easier solution. But, if you can't do that, then you can list all running services (if and only if they support sysvinit tools) with this command: # service --status-all 2/dev/null |grep +|cut -f2 -d ']' Then, just stop services manually, or build a script which stops everything except the few services you want to keep alive. And if you want to have this disabling permanent, then: $ less /etc/rc$(/sbin/runlevel |cut -f 2 -d' ').d/README will give you pointers about how to do that. It is also possible that things starts with cron, so you should probably check into /etc/ and /var/spool/cron/ everything included in cron's directories. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2158a28d409a963bb1bf93f0b6821...@neutralite.org
Re: is sshd really restarting?
Le 18.12.2014 18:13, Harry Putnam a écrit : Setup: very new install of gentoo When I restart ssh like so: sudo /etc/init.d/ssh restart I see very little output. Should it be more verbose? , |harry sudo /etc/init.d/ssh restart | Restarting ssh (via systemctl): ssh.service ` Can I get more verbose output? I have no idea. Anyway, if you really want to know if ssh really restarted, I guess the easier is this: PID1=$(echo $(ps -A |grep sshd)|cut -f1 -d' ') service ssh restart [ $PID1 == $(echo $(ps -A |grep sshd)|cut -f1 -d' ') ] echo ko || echo ok I wonder if there is a way to make it a one liner. (it just save the old PID of sshd, restart sshd, and check if PID changed. If yes, then it prints ok, otherwise ko.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2e678f266f05319b0c18c3bd3bb70...@neutralite.org
Re: Machine hangs at boot
Le 15.12.2014 19:37, German a écrit : Just for the hack of it, I tried startx and the system hangs. So it seems to me that it is server issues. Is that possible to look at server logs? Where are they located? You can find the logs /var/log. Ps: No need to CC me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/46a958be3fc1dfcea099a555fc793...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 14.12.2014 22:48, mourik jan heupink - merit a écrit : Hi, berenger.morel writes: In France, the electric network provide 220V to everyone. Are you sure? Starting from 2000 or so, the whole of europe has gradually changed to 230v, as a compromise between UK (240v) and the rest of europe (220v). MJ I am not sure. But, how old is this reform? I have used voltmeters more than once, and have always read 220V. But, I have not had to find failures in an installation since at least few years, maybe 5-6 (which is a long time when you still are not 30 years old, so I'm not sure about how many years exactly I did not had to check). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/64a2ede654e4092092b64dbcd7141...@neutralite.org
Re: Machine hangs at boot
Le 15.12.2014 14:00, Frederic Marchal a écrit : On Monday 15 December 2014 15:48:40 German wrote: Oh OK, there really is such a disk. Unfortunately I can't remove it. My machine was running smoothly for about two months and after kernel update this thing happened. Is sdb supposed to contain a valid partition? If it is supposed to be a valid disk, then, I would say it is now corrupted… How frequently do you reboot your computer? If you reboot it infrequently and just rebooted it after the kernel update, then the disk failure may have been noticed only then. As the kernel driver handling that disk is a generic scsi, I doubt a kernel bug affects your system. The ata driver can't be blamed here either as it is recognizing sda just fine. Now, something else may be holding the boot sequence for 26 seconds just before mounting the swap partition on sda3 but you ruled out a corruption on sda2. And we lack evidences that any other peripheral is behaving strangely. Frederic Well I had similar... lag... in testing, since few months, because of dbus. Several other people had it, too. It could be an update of udev which introduced it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/c29b48063c885f15dc5a0863b5a44...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 15.12.2014 15:22, Tony van der Hoff a écrit : On 15/12/14 14:30, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 14.12.2014 22:48, mourik jan heupink - merit a écrit : Hi, berenger.morel writes: In France, the electric network provide 220V to everyone. Are you sure? Starting from 2000 or so, the whole of europe has gradually changed to 230v, as a compromise between UK (240v) and the rest of europe (220v). MJ I am not sure. But, how old is this reform? I have used voltmeters more than once, and have always read 220V. But, I have not had to find failures in an installation since at least few years, maybe 5-6 (which is a long time when you still are not 30 years old, so I'm not sure about how many years exactly I did not had to check). The change was agreed by the Council of Europe in 1989, with a 15-year implementation time. A reading of 220V on a nominal 230V +/- 6% (i.e 216.2 .. 243.8) is quite legitimate, and even to be expected I can also read this: In practice, this allows countries to continue to supply the same voltage (220 or 240 V) In other words: yet another useless rule. I love bureaucracy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/bdda344f5b4da8be48bce4afff66d...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 13.12.2014 05:10, Joel Rees a écrit : 2014/12/13 1:29 : Le 12.12.2014 16:46, Joel Rees a écrit : I did say it was not the dbus you download from freedesktop.org [2] [5], didn't I? ;-/ Indeed. My understanding is that it is not just a port. Re-written from scratch, I think. Stuff that just tries to be a lazy man's sockets largely left out, I think. I would be more interested to take a look at the alternative's code, than than to the original's. The few tools'code I've seen of same tool but implemented by the net/open/freeBSD and versions I could find in linux, had a huge difference in terms of code clarity. I would not say that you were exactly wrong. Portability is not just a matter of getting things to compile, and there are some features of dbus that one would just as soon leave out when re-implementing it. Well, maybe dbus itself is not portable, nor clean (I said maybe. Code cleanness is a matter of opinion, and I only have read 2 source files just now) but if there is another implementation around, then at least what it provides can be provided in other systems, eventually in a cleaner way. Just curious, what's the name of this alternative? I would like to see if it could replace the original, or why not taking a quick look at it's source code. Just to build my own opinion. openbsd's website allows you to browse their source. Their dbus would be in their ports (packages) tree, I think. Try looking at dbus* under here: http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/x11/ [3] From what I can see, it's only a bunch of patches. Probably patches built on original sources, so, well, it's the same implementation with few more patches. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d7b1e9e2c382dde9846593719f8a8...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 13.12.2014 00:07, Ric Moore a écrit : On 12/12/2014 07:47 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 12.12.2014 11:43, claude juif a écrit : If i had to answer this question the way i understand it i will say : Browsers, Mails and sometimes Games. This is how i understand typical home computer today. Is this typical use, or average use? :p Because I would add, to typical, office suits uses, but I would not add it to average. Plus, now, it can be made trough browsing. That's an example of why people here are saying that the original question is too wide, imprecise. And I would add, useless. Because people adapt their computer environment to their uses, and if I agree that there are patterns, I disagree that there are typical uses. Suppose we leave it as if the machine will run on household power or require 220 volts? I kept a Unisys 5000/90 that required 220V at 80 amps just to boot the thing one of four 250 pound harddrives at a time. I moved from a house to an unused bank building (Yeah, it had a vault and an elevator!) where I had the juice to run it. It was cheaper than renting the house! It was great fun until the electric bill increased by $100 for the month. That would NOT be a home computer, even though I made the place my living industrial home. I highly recommend it for a bachelor. So maybe we could consider a standard for home computer that it runs on 110V with less than X amount of watts? :) Ric No. In France, the electric network provide 220V to everyone. This allows gamers to use their computers, but also the geeks their raspberry pi, and professionals their laptops. At work, we have some real servers. They does not, individually, consume as many kW as a developers's computer and it's 2 screens (well.. I would just love having 3 screens... especially at work.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/0ce6f2cb14e77dff6927ff0d05d81...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 13.12.2014 20:55, Joe a écrit : On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 11:53:48 -0500 Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Does it not disturb anyone that most of the responses to this question have been about how the question was phrased, even though the intent was obvious. What does it say about folks who post here? That they are computer people. 'How do I do X?' 'You don't want to do X. You *never* want to do X. You need to do Y. And by the way, you spelled X wrong.' Thanks for that laugh :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/ca8a686df24a92e4fee44267a553e...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 11.12.2014 18:21, Richard Owlett a écrit : berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: [snip] Now, if you think multi-user OSes are not that good, I think there is an OS with a different kernel somewhere (not Linux, not *BSD, not Hurd, not Windows, not ReactOS...) which wants to build a single user system. Can't remember the name, I only remember that when someone on linuxfr described it, I was really sceptical, because there will obviously be tons of security issues with such a system. There is a market (how large???) for a single user single task computer and OS. The problem is, if you use a system with a single user, then you will end with issues like what windows had (and probably still have when not configured properly): malwares can infect the whole system. That is how I operate ~100% of the time. Security is a non-issue, I have the only key to my house. It needs only one password to cove case of physical malicious access. What about software you ran as normal user with full rights doing malicious access to your hardware, thus being able to corrupt things like UEFI? There would be advantages to a maintenance password to guard me from making careless/dumb errors on *MY OWN* machine. It would be extremely useful if its kernel supported running unmodified Debian packages. Linux is built as a multi user kernel. I guess any software using linux specific features, or multi-user based feature, like cups, for example, would need changes. At least to not try to create it's own user. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a5b625fe69309185efdb1d5e91550...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 11.12.2014 20:27, Martin Read a écrit : On 11/12/14 17:21, Richard Owlett wrote: There is a market (how large???) for a single user single task computer and OS. It's very large indeed! Apple, and the various customers (e.g. Samsung, LG, HTC) of Google and Microsoft, are quite enthusiastic about selling devices that (superficially) cater to that market. That is how I operate ~100% of the time. Security is a non-issue, I have the only key to my house. It needs only one password to cove case of physical malicious access. There would be advantages to a maintenance password to guard me from making careless/dumb errors on *MY OWN* machine. It would be extremely useful if its kernel supported running unmodified Debian packages. Conveniently, it turns out to be possible to configure a Debian system to automatically log you in when you turn it on. I haven't *followed* any of the links duckduckgo has kindly provided me with when I typed debian autologin into its search box and pressed RETURN, but at least some of them certainly appear to be useful based on the preview text shown in the list. Those hints wont transform your system into a single user one. A single user one would not have root, cups, ,colord, etc users. Only the single user the physical person behind uses, which allows software to access the whole system without asking password or things like that. Dangerous, imho. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/4f5581a275238bd94fa975f5d9ce8...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 12.12.2014 06:13, seeker5528 a écrit : On 12/11/2014 8:33 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 08.12.2014 18:59, Marty a écrit : If this proves feasible, that's what I hope to do. I just want to know if anyone thinks it's a good idea, before I commit time and resources. My knowledge of all of the issues is sketchy at best. Don't know about the feasibility. When I first heard some guy was working on something called Wayland, I thought it sounded like something that was never going to be more than a personal project, but years later, it looks like not only is it gaining steam, it has competition. Whether that competition ever gets adopted outside of Ubuntu is a whole other question, but it exists. These are the things that freedesktop.org is for, get something out there people can get there hands on and provide a place to discuss it. You still have to do outreach to get people interested/involved, be responsive to their feedback, etc... Oh. Then, I doubt it's useful since my opinion is that dbus is useless (my opinion, which depends on my uses of my computers). Why? Because I do not see why my softwares should discuss between them without asking me. Your entitled to your opinion. Indeed. I rarely discuss to show that things I disagree with are good, except when the guy which agrees with just seems to agree without having thought about it at all :) I prefer discussing with people which disagree, it's just more fun and it makes it easier to have enlightenment. Personally I would prefer software X gets a poke in the arm and a message indicating network status changed, screen orientation changed, configuration changed here, there was an event in software Y that X is set to react to, Z is advertising a service X can use, etc instead of software X having to run around to multiple locations and check all the time or on the odd occasion restart and take inventory of what has changed. Sometimes looking at what was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A makes it seem like what is should be a little more. Later, Seeker This is a 35min long video. I'll watch it later. For now, I do agree with you that, X11 should not be in the middle of everything. And I think the same for every software, and this is what DBus does. I was not clear enough when I spoke about the relation between X11 and softwares. In fact, I was only thinking the the actual only useful thing I have seen for now in general IPCs on my system: windows notifying that they need some attention. The window sends the notification, probably (never checked in code) through X11 protocol, X11 resends it to window manager. Ok, X11 is in the middle, but it is something which allows me, who does not use a mainstream DE, to have this feature too, and it is, imho, graphic-related. Now, when I change, say, GTK's theme, I should not have to restard my applications to use it. And it's what dbus allows. But, there are actually many software that do not use dbus which supports such notification system, like daemons. They simply use signals, and on a given signal, they do something. No need for centralized dbus here. I guess that, yes, building a protocol based on signals to know what is the thing one wants us to take a look at, would need some way to know what's the problem, but I do not think having a daemon here is required. Just consider having a protocol which defines standard messages. Then, this protocol would mention that, when something wants to notify someone of some standard event, it just have to send a message on a socket of the application in question, and then sending SIGINT (for example) to it. How could it know the application's socket? There are 2 responses here: a daemon like dbus acting as a central point, and if (I said, if) it fails everything fails, or more simply at install time, building a text file like port : application : message1, message 2,etc. Each solutions have flaws, of course. In such a solution, the flaws I see would be: only software installed at the moment the application starts could be registered (but, applications should not, imho, be added or removed everytime. Plus, it could be worked around by specifying a second signal to re-read that configuration file), and multiple instances of a software which could not be supported. But, those days, many software just do their best to avoid that (not that I like it, heh), so by extending the way they are doing that, it is probably possible to find a solution to this issue. So, you have to choose between: _ having a daemon running everytime, and an application which needs to listen at it's socket everytime (I guess it's how dbus works? If someone have any clue about this part of internal, I would be happy to learn), but which have a more flexible way to send messages (not tied to a protocol? I'm not that sure, but I suppose it can at least support non-standard messages), which is something
Re: New user question
Le 12.12.2014 11:00, Lisi Reisz a écrit : On Friday 12 December 2014 09:21:31 Jeffrey Needle wrote: Hi. I'm pretty new to Debian. I just downloaded the 64-bit .iso and have just installed it. I have a question about the date display on the top panel. My understanding is that clicking on the date on the top panel should display my appointments from Evolution, but it's not working. I have lots of appointments, but nothing shows up. Is there some other connection I should be making? Thanks. Gnome 3?? Hum... if he is new, then he probably have downloaded the stable Debian, which defaults to Gnome 3.4 (according to https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome). @Jeffrey: I suppose you come from Windows, since you did not gave us any information. Considering that Windows does not offer choice in graphical environment, it makes sense that you would not have specified the one you use, and that you would not have noticed that there are others (considering that those environments are hidden into sub-menus before installation starts). The desktop environment (often abbreviated as DE) is, basically, what provides you the set of (usually graphical, I have never heard about a non-graphic desktop environment) tools you will use on a daily basis. Gnome 3 is the name of the default DE in current Debian, and it is in version 3.4 in current stable version of Debian. Other examples of DEs are KDE, XFCE, LXDE, Enlightenment, and probably others I have not heard about. In all those DEs, the application names tends to change, same for the places where things are on your screen, this is why Lisi asked you if you where using Gnome 3. Also, be prepared to long discussions between people about if some DE is better or worse than another, or about the question about DEs being useful at all :) Welcome to choice. Now, I can't help you on your issue, except if you are ok to use terminals, command-line. If so, start a terminal (you should have some black icon with a symbol like a white _ in it, that's it. Otherwise, I have noticed that on several DEs, ALT+F2 starts a prompt, in which you simply can enter x-terminal-emulator). Then, you first write 'man man' in it, to understand what you will do. Then, 'man date', 'man su', and finally, 'su -c date SOMETHINGYOUWANT' with SOMETHINGYOUWANT being what you determined from 'man date'. Note that you do not have to write the ' around commands, and if you are not patient enough to read all the man (which stands for manual) I gave you, then you only have to read 'man date', because it details date's format to set time. Now, there is a very easier way with graphical things I guess. Easier for a newcomer, I mean. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/371aae09aaa31809094ab968d1e90...@neutralite.org
Re: automation of xrandr
Le 29.11.2014 15:58, pe...@easthope.ca a écrit : https://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12 helped to establish a usable multi-screen configuration. Now what is the recommendation to automate? Put the xrandr command in .profile? Sorry for delay, lot of mails btw. Personally, I use .xinitrc, but I am not using a big DE. So, here is what looks like my .xinitrc on the machine I currently am on: == $ cat .xinitrc numlockx xrandr --output VGA-1 --off xrandr --output DVI-I-1 --primary --mode 1920x1080 xrandr --output HDMI-1 --mode 1920x1080 --right-of DVI-I-1 ssh-agent i3 --shmlog-size=26414400 == What does it does? Simple: When I log in my TTY1, I have a .bash_profile (I should move that stuff in .profile btw!) with those lines: == $ cat .bash_profile if [ -d $HOME/scripts ] ; then PATH=$HOME/scripts:$PATH fi export CC=clang export CXX=clang++ export MAKEFLAGS=-j `grep -c processor /proc/cpuinfo` if [ -z $DISPLAY ] [ `tty` == /dev/tty1 ] then #VBoxHeadless -startvm debian-dev /dev/null startx fi == What's interesting is the section testing if I am login on TTY1 (thanks to gentoo's wiki btw!), and if so, running the command startx. This is what starts Xorg, which, AFAIU, runs the script in .xinitrc at start, so, the xrandr stuff and the effective window manager (with a ssh-agent session, so that I only need to write my passphrase once. Very useful thing.). If tomorrow, I want to adopt a DE, or change my window manager for this user, I just have one line to change. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/ff00ed3e01ecb156417a12351a221...@neutralite.org
RE: C++ compiler g++-4.9
Le 11.12.2014 13:20, Bonno Bloksma a écrit : Hi, On 12/10/2014 01:23 PM, Nick Mpallas wrote: I am building a platform and I need to compile apache mesos from sources. The issue is that the guys the require support for specific c++11 features that in the 4.7 compiler currently supported by debian aren't there. Will the g++ compiler will be updated? The versions in each release don't get updated, that's part of what makes it stable. That and the fact that Debian tries to use a version of the software that has been out for a while and has proven to be relative free of bugs. Well, versions don't get updated, except if you include the backports in your sources.list. Also, are only security fixes updated, or bugs are included? If both or those updates are included, I guess that a software which maintains a stable release with versions dedicated to fixes could be updated in stable. Am I wrong? You'll need either to use jessie (that's going to be released in a couple of months), or you could build an in house gcc backport (or even request one to the backports team: [1]) One can even start using Jessie now if the problems that prevent releasing Jessie are not problems one runs into. The OP mentioned that he want to use Debian for a cluster. I doubt that, for clusters, one would use a beta version, and Jessie is, actually, a beta version. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/8d7a0b3482c36d1b56ef03060f64b...@neutralite.org
Re: C++ compiler g++-4.9
Le 10.12.2014 13:23, Nick Mpallas a écrit : Hi guys, I am building a platform and I need to compile apache mesos from sources. The issue is that the guys the require support for specific c++11 features that in the 4.7 compiler currently supported by debian aren't there. Will the g++ compiler will be updated?We would like to use debian as the backbone operating system for our cluster. regards What I would do if I were you, would be to add Jessie in your sources.list, not as a normal repository, but only as a source one (src-deb). So, you would be able to retrieve g++ Jessies's source package, and build it on the stable libc6. This will result in a debian package that you'll be able to deploy on your cluster. Now, be careful: you will have to find a way to know when there is an update of that package, to not miss security updates. Especially if the softwares you write are available through network. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/7066e3b7005e60ed930746009571b...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 09.12.2014 17:49, Marty a écrit : As for what is growing, cloud computing, so they can look at our data and keep us safe. Cloud computing was here before the buzz-word. Cloud computing is composed by: _ mail server + web MUA _ FTP server + web interface _ wtf server + wtf web interface The cloud computing is just, imho, putting in one word what the centralized internet is. Something like this goold ol'minitel. The app store concept is growning, and the unified solution is coming to distro near you, with TC/DRM as added bonus. Don't forget that OS-X is built on FOSS, blazing the trail. The app store concept exists in Debian since ages! What are, finally, apt* tools, except tools to manage... debian stores? XD The only difference is, in Debian, you can add unofficial repos. It's not enough to make Mac's concept a concept. It only is good enough to make it a pale copy of what exists since years in Desktop linux distros. Oh, sorry, I just forgot that... linux is not desktop ready, right :) (day of troll here ;) ) but more seriously, currently, the apt/rpm/etc idea is being adopted by other desktop systems, the ones which have users saying that installing something on linux is too hard. I prefer to think that the OSes I use are not ready for the masses. If they invent things that masses are not ready for, they the OS is not ready for the masses, but it's a quality, not a defect. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/45d45e07e31aaf30925d358133dfd...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 09.12.2014 09:59, Curt a écrit : On 2014-12-09, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: So, what up to date operating system is, now? You cut his link to plan9; maybe that's it. Can plan9 fully use 64 bit archs, modern GPUs and other things like that? By modern, I mean, less than 5 years old... On wikipedia, I can read this: 2002 Plan 9 4th edition Released by Lucent Technologies under a new free software license and Latest release Fourth Edition / daily Hum... so, it means that there were not major version since 12 years? Very great ideas can live long, for sure, but computing has changed a lot those 12 last years, don't you think? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/7726ea58cffc19557f29a377cec0d...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 11.12.2014 05:05, Marty a écrit : On 12/10/2014 10:16 PM, Marc Shapiro wrote: My wife, daughter and I each login to a separate vt. It makes no real difference who logs on to which vt, but usually we each log in to a particular vt. snip Space is the reason for a single computer. If I can get the family room remodeled then we might set up a second computer (I have a spare sitting around doing nothing) there, but that is still one less computer than user. That seems like a valid use case. I wonder if a suspended VM would serve the same purpose. Hopefully there are other, better ways to do this. It could probably, but why would it be necessary to waste resources in virtual machines? Plus, not sure if VMs supports 3D efficiently? (maybe one of them plays 3D games, or uses blender, or whatever) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/e41a724810c10f39cd0ca0135a4cd...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 12.12.2014 13:05, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : On Jo, 11 dec 14, 17:33:51, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Plus, it's not portable (anyone have seen dbus on windows? not sure, but I doubt it's on *BSD, too) unlike sockets. From http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus/ D-Bus is very portable to any Linux or UNIX flavor, and a port to Windows is in progress. Kind regards, Andrei Nice to learn about that, and sorry for wrong assumption. Does someone use it on a non-linux based computer? Any experience about that would be appreciated. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/8d7cc84efe87cce6532324bb05e12...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 11.12.2014 20:38, Ric Moore a écrit : On 12/11/2014 01:17 AM, Bret Busby wrote: So much metaphorical male ovine faeces. And, that is not directed at Lisi; just at the people trying to impose their dubious opinions and classifications, of what is, and, what has been, and, of what should be. Do you suppose Debian has become refuge for former XP users?? :) Ric Well... actually, I was a XP user from ages. I still have one that I can run from time to time, also. I'm proud of that, I believe it allows me to compare if Debian is better or worse than XP, and the answer is not always straight. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/97ec554b8c07df11304de45ac1380...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 12.12.2014 13:19, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : On Vi, 12 dec 14, 12:41:38, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Oh, sorry, I just forgot that... linux is not desktop ready, right :) (day of troll here ;) ) but more seriously, currently, the apt/rpm/etc idea is being adopted by other desktop systems, the ones which have users saying that installing something on linux is too hard. I subscribe to what Linus said at Debconf 14 (the video is on Youtube): the competition on the desktop is decided by pre-installs. I both agree and disagree. For some uses, there are softwares for which I know no alternatives on a system or another one. Examples: AutoCAD = windows, ease of maintenance = Debian, Fedora (but, not Linux!) and maybe some BSD. Plus, there is also the history: everyone knows what Windows looks like, even if they do not knows what is Windows. So, things are a little more complicated than the current pre-install thing. Also, there was an effort for netbooks several years ago, on which Linux distros were installed. So, I both agree and disagree :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/6eb73c0ced94dfd4e3c748f9c8806...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 12.12.2014 13:37, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : On Vi, 12 dec 14, 13:32:56, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Plus, there is also the history: everyone knows what Windows looks like, even if they do not knows what is Windows. So, things are a little more complicated than the current pre-install thing. Also, there was an effort for netbooks several years ago, on which Linux distros were installed. Chromebooks. Kind regards, Andrei Yes, there is those ones too, currently, but I was speaking about the first netbooks, which were the reason, according to my memory of reads, for the birth of windows 7 starter. Those are older, and probably have more HD memory. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/ca6006a4e87892ad4e7cbda0fa1f8...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 12.12.2014 11:43, claude juif a écrit : If i had to answer this question the way i understand it i will say : Browsers, Mails and sometimes Games. This is how i understand typical home computer today. Is this typical use, or average use? :p Because I would add, to typical, office suits uses, but I would not add it to average. Plus, now, it can be made trough browsing. That's an example of why people here are saying that the original question is too wide, imprecise. And I would add, useless. Because people adapt their computer environment to their uses, and if I agree that there are patterns, I disagree that there are typical uses. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/36fee9b5da6b3789988cd2356ae88...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 12.12.2014 13:14, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : On Vi, 12 dec 14, 11:35:03, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: So, you have to choose between: _ having a daemon running everytime, and an application which needs to listen at it's socket everytime (I guess it's how dbus works? If someone have any clue about this part of internal, I would be happy to learn), but which have a more flexible way to send messages (not tied to a protocol? I'm not that sure, but I suppose it can at least support non-standard messages), which is something I do not like: if the daemon crash, for a reason or another, or is exposed to a security issue, it's all applications using it which are in danger. In my very humble opinion (I'm not a programmer), applications should probably treat the message bus similar to network access: - if not available handle it gracefully - treat everything that comes from it as potentially dangerous But, if dbus crashed, applications using it would not be able to discuss anymore. It could surprise users enough to make them say: hey, my computer is broken. About security, well... I do not trust enough programmers (I include myself here) to be confident saying that things are always made with care when what we are writing have an input. The authors claim otherwise. I can write a software, and claim that it is perfect. It does not makes it true, right? Now, if someone have used it somewhere else than on linux, then, fine, I'm wrong. Or, if the specific code is not messed in the generic code, it can be called portable, too. I do not really want to take a look at it's source code, honestly, but it would be nice if I was wrong. Doing a quick search for less than a year old web pages containing dbus and bsd indicates lot of stuff about systemd, which is not the subject here, but this tends to imply that dbus is still usable on *BSD. Good. This might be interesting reading (though it seems slightly outdated to me): Version 0.3. Clearly, it's completely outdated, current stable debian have 1.8. Versions under 1 are usually alpha versions, with tons of features lacking. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/327ceeb4970eae554b9ec1ba80a08...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 12.12.2014 14:54, Richard Owlett a écrit : I.E. Who is responsible for the integrity of *MY* system? The correct answer is the proverbial Me, Myself, and I. It is most definitely not an individual nor group whom I've never met. There is most definitely a need for such systems as the vast majority do not have the needed experience/expertise. Yes, but, since you post on this list, I would tend to think you are someone with administration knowledge. At least basic one, especially since you are here since longer than me, you probably have learn tons of things from various threads. For someone which does not even know what is a mailing list, I would not think that they have or want to have enough knowledge of their computers to simply understand what installing an application really means. Remember: there are people able to trust phishing mails! And I did not even spoke about the fact that, around here, lot of people seems unable to feel responsible for their own actions... I would like to be wrong, or if not, that this feeling is only because I'm in the wrong place of the world, but I doubt it. That is how I operate ~100% of the time. Security is a non-issue, I have the only key to my house. It needs only one password to cove case of physical malicious access. What about software you ran as normal user with full rights doing malicious access to your hardware, thus being able to corrupt things like UEFI? Hopefully I would learn from my errors. In any case the responsibility is mine. Not everyone is able or want to learn. Plus, to acquire knowledge, you need to have bases which allows you to do so. How could I learn what a virus is, if I do not know what a file is? How could I learn what a worm is, without knowing that applications can communicate? There would be advantages to a maintenance password to guard me from making careless/dumb errors on *MY OWN* machine. It would be extremely useful if its kernel supported running unmodified Debian packages. Linux is built as a multi user kernel. I guess any software using linux specific features, or multi-user based feature, like cups, for example, would need changes. At least to not try to create it's own user. I assumed it would possibly require a quite different core and apt substitute. How closely tied is content of a Debian package tied to a Linux kernel? It depends. Source package, or binary package? Package installing low level, or high level stuff? I'll bet on source package, so that I could not argue about the libc. Hopefully, high-level applications does not depends on linux kernel-related stuff, but now, we've seen applications recently which depends on features provided by systemd, which is, AFAIK, not ported on non-linux kernels. Also, a cat /etc/passwd could inform you about how many users are present on your system, but remember that it's only your system: other systems might have more, or less, depending on what was installed in the past (do you know that, when you purge a package, it won't remove the users it added?). Simple example: databases. They often create their own users. Do you have any package which depends on a database? I'm not sure, but I think cups also uses it's own user. Adapting Debian to a single user system might not be that hard, but I am quite sure that it will be a ton of work, and that strange issues will happen here and there. Now, I've heard about puppy linux, in terms like: users are root. It might interest you. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/ceaebdb0adc552e1a97d8f32a8b03...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 12.12.2014 14:55, Joel Rees a écrit : 2014/12/12 21:08 : Le 12.12.2014 13:05, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : On Jo, 11 dec 14, 17:33:51, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org [2] wrote: Plus, it's not portable (anyone have seen dbus on windows? not sure, but I doubt it's on *BSD, too) unlike sockets. From http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus/ [3] D-Bus is very portable to any Linux or UNIX flavor, and a port to Windows is in progress. Kind regards, Andrei Nice to learn about that, and sorry for wrong assumption. Does someone use it on a non-linux based computer? Any experience about that would be appreciated. FWIW, openbsd has an implementation of a dbus daemon just for the dbus dependent apps to talk to. It's not the dbus that you download from freedesktop.org [4], of course. So I was wrong. Good to know :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a570796537a2eff10bb254448f9f6...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 12.12.2014 14:00, Martin Read a écrit : Notably, there is neither a billing framework, nor a place to put one. True. But it would not be that hard to adapt it. Let's try a basic algo: #echo my.paying.repo /etc/apt/sources.list #apt-get update #mybillingscrip PackageIWantToPayFor - ask for you ssh key, or maybe use what ssh-agent already have. If server wants, it can use a multi-identification system (ssh can require more than a single identifier, for example it supports challenge authentication). - ask apt-rdepends what you need to install - ask the server to prepare needed paying files in a dedicated folder. - the server looks various numbers in a database (money client still have, sum of money the packages cost) - if enough money in client's account, remove the sum, copy the files in a dedicated place - server notices the client that it's ready to download - download packages with sftp - server remove files when they are downloaded - install packages as usual, with dpkg or whatever See? No need for client-side framework, I'm sure a simple script can do it, and it is probably doable in less than a week by someone not used to apt and scripting. The point where it will be harder is server-side, depending on the software you are using to manage your payments. Other than that, it's only a matter of identifying the user, as far as I can understand. Of course, I'm not used to using apple or microsoft or google OSes with app stores, so I probably miss one or more check. They could use something different than ssh, for example. And they probably have a nice GUI to allow the user to fill his account easily. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/b885ddd449e0df0bf21b710e1a564...@neutralite.org
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
Le 12.12.2014 13:58, claude juif a écrit : 2014-12-12 13:47 GMT+01:00 : Le 12.12.2014 11:43, claude juif a écrit : If i had to answer this question the way i understand it i will say : Browsers, Mails and sometimes Games. This is how i understand typical home computer today. Is this typical use, or average use? :p Because I would add, to typical, office suits uses, but I would not add it to average. Plus, now, it can be made trough browsing. This kind of question remember me h2g2 : What is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything ? Answer is 42. But it means nothing ? Then you have not ask the right question :p But the question the OP asked, is almost as precise as what Deep Thought was confronted ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/0949e54da6e6cf311fe4d565e6879...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 12.12.2014 16:46, Joel Rees a écrit : I did say it was not the dbus you download from freedesktop.org [5], didn't I? ;-/ Indeed. My understanding is that it is not just a port. Re-written from scratch, I think. Stuff that just tries to be a lazy man's sockets largely left out, I think. I would be more interested to take a look at the alternative's code, than than to the original's. The few tools'code I've seen of same tool but implemented by the net/open/freeBSD and versions I could find in linux, had a huge difference in terms of code clarity. I would not say that you were exactly wrong. Portability is not just a matter of getting things to compile, and there are some features of dbus that one would just as soon leave out when re-implementing it. Well, maybe dbus itself is not portable, nor clean (I said maybe. Code cleanness is a matter of opinion, and I only have read 2 source files just now) but if there is another implementation around, then at least what it provides can be provided in other systems, eventually in a cleaner way. Just curious, what's the name of this alternative? I would like to see if it could replace the original, or why not taking a quick look at it's source code. Just to build my own opinion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a62441a647dc0b3d779ae837070ad...@neutralite.org
Re: Migrating GTK+ project to windows
Le 27.11.2014 07:35, Kevin O'Gorman a écrit : On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Morel Bérenger wrote: Le Mar 18 novembre 2014 16:51, Kevin O'Gorman a écrit : I have a project that I'd like to migrate to Windows. I'll likely be using Windows 8.1. GTK+ is portable, or at least that what was said last time I checked so I do not see the point in migrating anything. I think you should start on downloading the installers on the official GTK site. It was originally developed on debian-based distros, If it were written in a non-portable way, then you might have hard times, if you are not experienced enough in programming. I make it with code::blocks normally. I have code::blocks on my Windows machine, but not GTK+, and I've gotten confused by the documentation of how to put GTK+ there too. Too many choices, Well, I would start by going of official website, and download the stuff for your targeted platform. There are not that many choices. and some have failed outright, but in cryptic fashion. What have you tried, and how did it failed? Sorry for the delay. Same. Did not had time to check my mails since weeks. So I redid it. I have downloaded the all-in-one GTK 2.24 bundle from http://www.gtk.org/download/win32.php [2] and unzipped to C:GTK I have added C:GTKbin to %PATH% I have configured GTK and run gtk-demo successfully I created a new GTK project in code::blocks and compiled the main.c that code::blocks puts in by default. I have attempted to run it, but I get a dialog that says libglib-2.0-0.dll is missing from my computer. It is. There are .lib things, but precious few .dll things in C:GTKlib IIRC, you will need to add gtk lib in your project's path. It should be something like, right click on your project, build options, libraries (look at both include and linkage). C::B should be able to create a project from scratch with those things, too. PS: no need to CC me, just sending to list is enough -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/505b9558b00d5fa6da1b06da86c26...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 08.12.2014 18:59, Marty a écrit : On 12/08/2014 10:43 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 08.12.2014 14:18, Marty a écrit : I almost tagged this off-topic but it's directed toward ordinary Debian users (with developer backgrounds). I first raised this on modular-debian but I want to get some ideas from a wider audience. I'm starting to get familiar with Plan 9 and D-Bus, to compare how they try to solve the same set of problems. Plan 9 concepts attempt to solve Unix problems in a very different way than Opendesktop.org. For people wanting to return to the original Unix concepts, 9p/plumber (or an updated version) seems like a natural fit going forward, for basic IPC purposes. 9p is already in Linux, and probably could be ported to the other Debian ports. I realize I just have to convince millions of people to re-plumb their core OS in a short period of time, but recent history teaches us that it that this is entirely feasible! Thus emboldened, I would even deign to give users a choice in the matter, but realistically, this would probably be an experimental project. You won't convince anyone if you do not build a PoC. Especially developers giving their time literally for free. Asking questions is a nice way to learn how you could do that PoC, anyway. Asking and trying. If this proves feasible, that's what I hope to do. I just want to know if anyone thinks it's a good idea, before I commit time and resources. My knowledge of all of the issues is sketchy at best. Oh. Then, I doubt it's useful since my opinion is that dbus is useless (my opinion, which depends on my uses of my computers). Why? Because I do not see why my softwares should discuss between them without asking me. I am ok if I explicitly plug one in another, but I do not want my computer to do things behind me: every time something tries to guess what I'm doing, it fails (speaking about that, I should learn about how to customize that stupid ACPI stuff to stop stopping my screen when I'm watching videos). I did not stopped using DEs and IDEs for nothing (slowdowns, crashes, losing time dragging mouse here and there to type text in right place, etc)... Now... well, my opinion is that if applications have to have an IPC to discuss with another, then why not, but I think that the link should be obvious and explicit. For example, I think dconf is stupid: you change the configuration, for example with a unified tool, and this affects many softwares. Why not. But, dbus is not needed for that: OSes are already able to send signals (that's how postgreSQL works to reload configuration for example). That's how I think applications I use discuss with my window manager (i3): they use signals, described not by linux, but by X11 protocol. It works, it's lightweight, and it does not imply having a daemon for such a trivial thing (few lines of C does the job I guess). If you need communication on more specialized thing (go to next song, send file by mail), you will anyway have to establish a real protocol, that emitter can build, and receiver understand. So, having a daemon for non-specialized IPCs seems weird for me. Nice, you can send messages to the whole system. But, if no application minds about or understand your message, is not it plain stupid? Plus, it's not portable (anyone have seen dbus on windows? not sure, but I doubt it's on *BSD, too) unlike sockets. I think sockets are good enough, and not that hard to use. Open a file descriptor, read, write, and close. If you need non-blocking accesses, then you need 3 more lines of C, that you can move into a dedicated function. I do not only think, I now have a proof about that: did not used sockets since school (~8 years ago). Yesterday I wanted to at least start a project (a text editor without UI at all, like mpd is a music player without UI) and, in less than 4 hours, have built my own C++ socket class, and trivial client/server (they just send/receive, for now. Just a start, still have the protocol to build.) which I can reuse very easily for future uses. I don't want to end up reinventing any wheels. Forget what people says about reinventing the wheel. It's good to so: it allows you to understand why wheels are built the way they are. It's thanks to someone which explained how to reimplement OOP features in C that I finally were able to understand my first uses of the C++ keyword class (I do not say that it allowed me to understand OOP concepts, only how, internally, a class works, which is a prerequisite for me to learn more things. Writing clean code have no link with using C, asm, or Java: it's about coding modules which contains functions and not whole programs. ). But, yes, it takes time. Could an IPC bridge/shim mechanism connect to a new IPC model while apps and DE's migrate from D-Bus, or support both optionally? I can see an updated version of Plumber might be needed, and things might be simplified by other
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 10.12.2014 21:34, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : On Mi, 10 dec 14, 13:27:21, Paul E Condon wrote: What is 'PoC'? Probably will be blindly obvious once I've been told. Most likely Proof of Concept. Yes. By PoC I mean a small set of program/library which demonstrates that something is doable. The kind of pieces of code that you usually just put somewhere while rewriting a real, cleaner, version of what you try to do :) When I search for acronyms, I usually just use my favourite search engine, which often gives me nice results (using duckduckgo). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/be56911e7905f0ed75d948bba278f...@neutralite.org
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
Le 08.12.2014 14:18, Marty a écrit : I almost tagged this off-topic but it's directed toward ordinary Debian users (with developer backgrounds). I first raised this on modular-debian but I want to get some ideas from a wider audience. I'm starting to get familiar with Plan 9 and D-Bus, to compare how they try to solve the same set of problems. Plan 9 concepts attempt to solve Unix problems in a very different way than Opendesktop.org. For people wanting to return to the original Unix concepts, 9p/plumber (or an updated version) seems like a natural fit going forward, for basic IPC purposes. 9p is already in Linux, and probably could be ported to the other Debian ports. I realize I just have to convince millions of people to re-plumb their core OS in a short period of time, but recent history teaches us that it that this is entirely feasible! Thus emboldened, I would even deign to give users a choice in the matter, but realistically, this would probably be an experimental project. You won't convince anyone if you do not build a PoC. Especially developers giving their time literally for free. Asking questions is a nice way to learn how you could do that PoC, anyway. Asking and trying. Could an IPC bridge/shim mechanism connect to a new IPC model while apps and DE's migrate from D-Bus, or support both optionally? I can see an updated version of Plumber might be needed, and things might be simplified by other aspects of the Plan 9 paradigm, like per-process namespaces and treating everything as a file. Multi-seat PC and other anachronisms probably have to go away. As Lisi asked, what about choice? How could you say that those are anachronisms, too? Perl guys are used to say this: there is more than one way to achieve it. This can be applied to so many things. About anachronism... you should read about what is the minitel*, and then, consider thinking about how most people uses their computers ;) *: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/3d6a00a1c8bddc88b517b4e19cc68...@neutralite.org
Re: Haven't seen this ssh output before
Le 04.12.2014 11:33, Jochen Spieker a écrit : berenger.mo...@neutralite.org: debsecan. This is a tool which lists CVE (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures) that the packages you installed contains. I think you might get some hints if you make a diff between the old (you said you have un-upgraded systems) and the new (the system which gaves you problems) systems. Debsecan is a great tool, but to find out whether a specific upgrade contains remedy for a specific CVE the easiest way is usually to just look at the changelog. I would be very surprised if OpenSSH people close security holes without mentioning that explicitly. J. Of course, but this is something which needs to be made by hand, since no apt tool I have heard about will list CVEs in a package. Except debsecan, which can be run by script, for example to send mail to warn on various things. I wonder if it could be doable to warn when the future package will introduce a CVE, before installing it? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/f7a8d33654389dd95d5669d879cd2...@neutralite.org
Re: Maildrop - howto deliver email that contains the word systemd directly to trash with .mailfilter?
Le 18.11.2014 15:40, Toby a écrit : Hello, the subject says it all. I'm starting to have problems finding useful mails from this list. They are hiding somewhere between all systemd arguments. Since I'm not interested in what init system that will be the default and are trusting that my boxes will work just fine with the one chosen by the developers I'm trying to figure out howto filter incoming mails that contains the word systemd and deliver them to trash. I have maildrop as mda using Maildir. I use this in my .mailfilter to sort mails from this list to a specific folder: if (/^X-Mailing-List: debian-user@lists.debian.org/) to $HOME/Maildir/.Linux.Debian.User Can anyone give me hint on how to achieve this by adding another rule? Thanks! /Toby This sounds like a regex filter, right? So, I guess that, something like if (/^X-Subject: .*systemd.*/) to /dev/null could work. Of course, I guessed the X-Subject, this might be something else. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/0594a16e7e9cf6f33794e8727eca0...@neutralite.org
Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table
Le 02.12.2014 19:27, tv.deb...@googlemail.com a écrit : On 02/12/2014 20:48, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: [cut] Also, what is EBR (or EPBR, which seems to be some sort of enhanced whatever may be a EBR)? Extended Boot Record on DOS disks ? Where information about extended partition is stored. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_boot_record To fix things, I tried to take a look at testdisk, which was able to find partitions. Lot of them, in facts, included lot of... removed partitions (I did a lot of experiments on that disk before). Plus, I have no idea about how to ask it (testdisk) to fix, apply things? Any document about how to use it? Not the man, I already have read it, and it's plain useless. I think you read French, if not the page is available in English too. I do. http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_FR It's from TestDisk author. Hope it helps. It does, thanks. For now, I'll keep that disk in that state, in case informations and testing might be useful to maintainers. I'll try to repair things in few weeks, probably. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1915fb753c0f30e56bf720c82d006...@neutralite.org
Re: Haven't seen this ssh output before
Le 27.11.2014 00:04, Harry Putnam a écrit : Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com writes: I'm not at all clear on how one would go about making an adjustment in sshd_config to allow the algs used by my REMOTE-sol to be recognized. REMOTE-sol does not appear to be using OpenSSH .. maybe a solaris version of SSH. In light of the comments above; if you have any more info on this and have the time... please post. I managed to get a bit of a solution after careful study of the error output and man sshd_config (Largely from being guided by your post) It shows the default kex algorithems and the possible kex alg. I thought of just adding one that matched the list of my clients available choices to sshd_config on REMOTE-deb like so: KexAlgorithms diffie-hellman-group-exchange-sha1 Then restart sshd. That works, but I was afraid that might mean the defaults would be dropped and only `diffie-hellman-group-exchange-sha1' would be offered. I was afraid that might cause failure on some other hosts. Thanks for sharing the solution, one might needs it someday, especially considering the fact you are using the future debian stable. Any opinions on what I may have created? I'm not a security guy (not even a sysadmin, just a dev, but I am feeling concerned with security of computers anyway...), not that I do not want to learn about it, but it's a very complex thing. But, since you seem to be afraid of security holes, I would like to point to a package I have discovered recently (in a search about netBSD good points, the author was saying that a tool listing CVEs of packages you are trying to install was lacking on other systems, and made an edit because someone gave him this tool's name for Debian): debsecan. This is a tool which lists CVE (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures) that the packages you installed contains. I think you might get some hints if you make a diff between the old (you said you have un-upgraded systems) and the new (the system which gaves you problems) systems. Now, I can't find any CVE with it on (one of) my computer, which have only openSSH's client installed, so it might not help you. Security is a really complex thing, that I do not understand a lot so the problem might not be caused by any CVE of openSSH itself, but, AFAIK, openSSH is using libssl, which is, according to aptitude: a part of openSSL's implementation for SSL, and with this command: $ debsecan |grep ssl -i I have 2 CVEs (no idea if they apply to you btw): CVE-2014-3566 libssl1.0.0 (remotely exploitable, medium urgency) CVE-2014-3566 openssl (remotely exploitable, medium urgency) Maybe your updated machine have fixed one of them? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/3fec1ace9e30ca3b41723bbc1acb2...@neutralite.org
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
Le 02.12.2014 08:05, Patrick Bartek a écrit : and more and more developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as a dependency for the features it offers. It's their choice - likewise it's your choice *not* to write alternatives. It 'sounds' like you're proposing a regime where those that produce have their freedom of choice constrained by users. I struggle to find a rationale that makes that reasonable or likely to do anything other than destroy, given that the user has a choice. User's do contrain. They even dictate. Always have. Developers should, if they are samrt, be developing what customers want or need. Not the other way around. That's the formula for going out of business. Listening to your customers as well as your potential customers is just good business. Really? Tss... How many projects have you, as a user, constrained to do something? Being commercial or not... You may had some success in commercial softwares, because of contracts, but for small projects, or projects were the developpers are not paid, when they only contribute because they wan't to use it, but without having to suffer some bug or another, or with a feature they would like to have, I sincerely doubt you had constrained anyone. Honestly... if you want to constrain people on their spare time, if you want to remove us the last part of fun we can have in programming, then... well, people wont listen you, to stay polite. And it's normal. Open source developpers are not all paid for what they do. Only a minority is, and in this minority, I am not sure that the bigger part actually live from open source softwares. Of course, programming is just one of the various possible contributions to a project. But, most open source project starts by pure code and/or software engineering steps (most, because not games, for example, and there are probably some other around), and by that first base of code might, or might not, have contributions on other subjects (which are important too, I do not deny that. Even knowing that someone tried what you did may be a contribution which helps to continue working). But, maybe you know about a project which started by bug reports or translations on an empty codebase? Not a game, of course, that kind of projects definitely needs lots of very various skills. It may be why there are not a lot of pure FOSS games of high quality (I mean, there are many of them, but I feel like the ratio, when compared to other softwares, is by far lower that the same ratio in closed source world. Oh, and I mean graphical games, of course, not ascii ones): it does need by far more different skills than to build, say, a text editor. Oh. And, you forgot something. FOSS developpers are the users of their work, unlike in commercial softwares. And it changes *a lot* of things, if not everything. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/f1a2fd0a224376265f2137f548c5c...@neutralite.org
Re: XDG Standard is not evil (was: Re: Why focus on systemd?)
Le 28.11.2014 15:32, Rusi Mody a écrit : However there are some issues: if the software-versions in these dont match up then its precisely these XDG files that tread on each others' toes across OSes. Well... if configuration files are not both upward and downward compatible between different versions, which could be both major, minor, Ubuntuesque or googlesque (yes, I do think that Ubuntu and chrome/firefox version schemes are stupid) I do not see where is the problem. After all, why, in the first time, do you need on the same computer different versions of the same software, if not for testing/development purposes? And in those purposes, you probably know how to change the default directory, right? On correct softwares, there is a command-line option for that, like -c, --config, or sometimes -C. No issue for me here but... One solution that Ive been toying with is as follows: 1. Have one real My-home partition 2. Keep /home as part of the OS-file system, so that each OS can mess around with its own 'XDG's' I wonder if people have tried this (or something similar) and any downsides Here, you know, you could be smarter. XDG directories are defined by environment variables. So, why not using, for example, in you .profile, something like this: $cat ~/.profile #!/bin/sh case $( grep PRETTY_NAME /etc/os-release |cut -f2 -d'' ) in Debian GNU/Linux jessie/sid) XDG_FOOBAR_STUFF=~/.config/jessie *) echo hey, I have no idea what distro this is? esac But, of course, it won't work with, for example, vim, bash, and plenty of softwares which... DO NOT respect XDG things. Oh, and I used /etc/os-release, which is not always present because... it's a part of XDG, AFAIK. But, you can do this by grepping/sedding in some mount on labels or whatever trick you want to identify the system on which you actually are. This is clean, and efficient. Far better that what you could achieve *without* XDG. Yes, I like xdg, between other reasons because it does not impose things: good softwares (for example, i3) allows the user to choose, if he want or not to use XDG. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/457101a6a693f20b243e931a9d3ed...@neutralite.org
Re: XDG Standard is not evil (was: Re: Why focus on systemd?)
Le 27.11.2014 03:04, Serge a écrit : Later some people started to abuse those directories and put there files, that never supposed to be there. Those people don't really think about standards or unification. Usually they just enable displaying hidden files in their file manager, see a lot of dotfiles in a home directory and think that this is wrong. They start searching how to fix this, find xdg basedir-spec, and use it as an excuse for moving ~/.appname files, to ~/.config/appname, or worse, split them among .config, .local, .cache... If only rogues can put their configuration files in a subdirectory of a common directory, then every application is a rogue, since all applications put their configuration files in the $HOME directory or any of it's subdirectories. The point is that, applications using $HOME instead of $XDG_CONFIG_HOME does not only put their configuration there, but all their files. So, thanks to those ones, you will have things like: .bashrc, .bash_history, .dmenu_cache, .prxAEIHar (try to guess what's this file? I myself have no idea... reading it, it seems it's related to xosview?) etc. Ok, now, you only want to save your configuration files. Which ones will you take? Or, for a reason you want to use an application which is not installed on your system, but in a remote file system that you can't access everytime. If this application puts everything in $HOME, then you'll have useless things on your local machine, but if it uses XDG directories, you can mount/bind/whatever the distant directory to a point in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME. Another nice thing: Imagine I use several softwares which are not pieces of an existing monolithic DE. Imagine I would like to write an application to manage configuration of those applications I am using. I will probably have to use the strategy design pattern[1] because configuration formats will differ (key=value in INI-style way, xml-erk-style format...) and have plug-ins to manage those formats, but there are quite common ways, easy to parse, like good ol' INI (like gftp, but you'll probably find many others lying around on your own computer), or ugly (my opinion) XML. Ok, so, we sometimes have common formats, which might be used by several applications I use. So, maybe we could find some which shares common features? Like, for example, binding a shorcut to open a file (pretty common, right?) or move your character in an FPS game? For this, I could ask my plug-ins to extract, in all configuration files of $XDG_CONFIG_HOME, everything which looks like being able to open a file (some regexes on the key's name should do the work in many cases), and refer the folder's name which contains the files to identify which software uses it. Then, I could ask the user if he want to define a new shortcut for some specified set of applications (or to all? Why not?). Ok, then, now, the user can have a way to configure everything on his computer, without those applications having been written to be integrate in any DE. Of course, DEs can use it too, but, I made the choice to not use such things, because I think that there is too much bloat. This would be harder, by far, if every application just puts things, sometimes in $HOME/.application, or $HOME/.application.conf, or $HOME/.application/config or $HOME/.application/application.config (not to speak about those nasty rc files!). Last but not least, it means that one could write a library to manage configuration files, which could be reused, because things goes in some predefined places, in a predefined order. No need to learn that .bash_profile is read before .profile... oh, sorry, bash does not uses XDG dirs. So, I can see advantages. Several ones. I'll try to find the problems now: the application have to be made correctly enough to not trust the content of an environment variable, because it may try to trick the software, for buffer overflows, code injections, or less dangerous things like behavior changing depending on the moment, if the application re-read the environment variable. That's all I can find. They don't think about /etc/xdg, they don't read FHS or other XDG standards, Well... honestly, I would not follow FHS blindlessly, obviously. Because, well... it does not works on Microsoft Windows, first, which is a widely used system, and I prefer to make things portable (so I would use a different mechanism on windows than on Debian to read default configuration files) plus, FHS is not followed in the same way everywhere: in *BSD, I think the softwares you will install through the package manager will not go into /usr/bin, but in /usr/local/bin. On some linux distro, it may go in /opt. How could I know? Even UNIX-style OSes disagree! About other XDG standards, well... I do not have to use dbus stuff to know what directory I should use to store my specific user's configuration, right? they don't care about people who have to do 2-4 times more
Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table
Le 20.11.2014 22:26, Scott Ferguson a écrit : On 21/11/14 06:45, Pascal Hambourg wrote: Scott Ferguson a écrit : Might be worth fscking the disk first in case that's where the problem lies. Why ? fsck works on filesystems, not disks or partition tables. Good question - because I didn't spend much time thinking about it, or, because I haven't used ms-dos partition tables for a very long time? :/ Regardless - maybe badblocks would be a better way of checking if the problem is a result of damage to where the E(P)BRs are written? Certainly simpler than examining the E(P)BRs for errors which would be my next course of action if I had no backups of the disk. (I suspect) There are at least two possible scenarios(?) which would result in a problem that the OP is experiencing[*1]:- ;the OP accidentally overwrote an EBR i.e. created another extended partition at some later point (1st sector of the extended partition?) ;a damaged sector containing an EBR In the first case parted rescue may/should be able to fix the problem. The OP could probably get more info by checking the E(P)BRs. The problem 'might' be in the first or last E(P)BR (again, I 'suspect' Martin is right about the looping) Perhaps (from unreliable memory):- dd if=/dev/sdc bs=512 count=1 skip=22026238 | hexdump -C likewise with the last extended partition, and then the same on the E(P)BRs 'might' show the error? I note that's a lot of suspicions, mights, and guesses - but again, I welcome input and correction. [*1] I'm guessing, and welcome input - as I suspect would the OP An interesting problem, sadly the person most likely to know the answer hasn't been seen on the lists for some time. Kind regards First, sorry for delay and thanks for replies. I won't have time to fix this for now, I will try to find time ASAP. Not that I really mind the data which were on that disk, but it will allow me to tinker with partition tables and such things on which I do not have a good knowledge. I had even no idea that logical partitions were a chained list, but now that you say it, it makes sense. Also, what is EBR (or EPBR, which seems to be some sort of enhanced whatever may be a EBR)? To fix things, I tried to take a look at testdisk, which was able to find partitions. Lot of them, in facts, included lot of... removed partitions (I did a lot of experiments on that disk before). Plus, I have no idea about how to ask it (testdisk) to fix, apply things? Any document about how to use it? Not the man, I already have read it, and it's plain useless. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/e68e09075ad78cad0db7cb232b53f...@neutralite.org
udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table
Hello. I think most of my problem's description is in title, but here are some more informations. I have a hard disk on which I tried a... quite unusual... procedure to install another OS. My try in this procedure [1] did not went well at all, but it's not the subject of this mail. Now, fact is that the hard-disk partition table is no longer correct, and when I plug it (it is an USB HD) into a Debian system, it makes udev eating all my memory, and more. The only way for me to have a chance to work with that drive plugged is to disable swap, because when the system swaps, all CPU is used to access hard-drive, and also to do: _ echo 80 /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_ratio #honestly, I'm a newbie in kernel stuff, but I think I should use 95% here, that would be more effective, considering that I think I'll use such configuration on all my systems, since most of my tools does not need more than few hundred MiB. _ echo 2 /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory #so, softwares which tries to take too much ram will know it or crash. Udev is crashing, I guess. I think that udev crashes, instead of simply acknowledging that it can't handle the partitions of the device, because if I then try other operations involving it, they does not work. Also, I have noticed on more recent systems (testing and backported kernel) that I can't even access the device with fdisk after all udev processes died. On current stable kernel, I can (which gave me the hope to be able to use that disk anew, someday). The symptoms I were able to see, through various means, like reading what is printed on TTY1 when I plug it, or using fdisk on the computer which did not made the hardware disappear when udev crashed, is that a very huge list of partitions is detected, I suspect an infinite loop. So, does anyone know how to make udev stopping gracefully to detect the full list of partitions, and restrict itself to real hardware? Also, I should probably report that bug, but how could I find more informations to provide, since I strongly doubt that it can be reproduced, and so fixed, without the correct partition table? Fun facts: _ my BIOS... erm, no, not a BIOS, just a crappy UEFI, is not able to boot when that disk is plugged. I never felt good with that UEFI things, now I think I have some interesting reason. I'll try that on a old computer, just to see if real BIOSes are able to handle damaged logic, but *correct hardware*. _ windows XP is simply not able to see the disk, but it does not dies or eat all RAM. Well, that's a pretty damaged installation of XP anyway, so not really relevant. And this OS is obsolete anyway. 1: for the curious ones, here is what I tried: create a virtualbox machine add it a vmdk which were linked to /dev/sdb (yes, sdb, not sdb1, or sdb2: the whole extern disk) booting the VM on a netBSD's iso having a very bad feeling when seeing that the extended partition was recognized as unknown filesystem feeling lucky and continuing seeing that, finally, I was not lucky :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2221850cae78d8b6eab1bbcf02ae3...@neutralite.org
Re: Web site conformance and various browsers
Le 17.11.2014 14:45, songbird a écrit : sometimes i have issues with a website and i cannot tell if it is a problem with the browser or a problem with the website. obviously i am not a website developer so this sort of issue isn't clear where i need to poke at things more... are there any tools available which help sort that out (like one that says This page conforms to standards X and Y, but violates a for this part) etc.? most the time i use Iceweasel (most current versions available in testing, sid or experimental) or Midori. Midori seems to do better and I'm not sure why as i thought that it used the same basic infrastructure as Iceweasel. any web developers who struggle with this and if I'm missing something obvious (like use a different browser like Opera or ...)? thanks! songbird The problem with website compatibility can come from lot of problems: _ I'm not sure that HTML5 is fully supported by all upstream engines (see below) _ it will depends on a browser's configuration, especially about JavaScript (JS) because a huge quantity of websites are... hum... just bloated with that kind of crap. So, plug-ins like adware, or configuration which disables JS can avoid having the same behavior. You can have the same kind of problems with cookies (accepting only a site's cookies avoid things like hotmail to work, and I've seen other ones). _ sites will often voluntarily try to behave differently depending on the browser, in a good start intent, but hell is made of such good intents... _ sites will sometimes employ specific things of a browser. About the last point, if it is made correctly, it might not be detected by stuff like w3c's validator. Otherwise, just for your information: The problem is not the browser, but the rendering engine behind it. Firefox/iceweasel is based on gecko (and AFAIK it's the only gecko user), while midori, chrome, and a ton of other ones are based on webkit (to be really more accurate, chrome is based on blink, a fork of webkit. Hopefully this fork might help to not see a new kind of IE era, but I'm pessimistic on that, without real reasons). Even recent opera (starting to version = 13) versions are based on webkit, so we can currently see more or less 3 major competitors: _ IE _ webkit/blink (I have no idea about how much blink differs from webkit, but seriously, if there is only safari using webkit, webkit will just die) _ gecko PS: when I think about how crappy all of this is, and that I remember that many people said me that websites runs in the same way everywhere, I just laugh. I try to remember it everyday, since there is a rumor which says that laughing 5min per day is good for health, hehe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/704af6d0494f50cbf285eb235d565...@neutralite.org
Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table
Le 17.11.2014 17:55, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a écrit : On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Now, fact is that the hard-disk partition table is no longer correct, and when I plug it (it is an USB HD) into a Debian system, it makes udev eating all my memory, and more. Please image the partition table so that someone can reproduce the issue and fix it... looks like an useful test case :-) I think that udev crashes, instead of simply acknowledging that it It is likely triggering a bug somewhere in the load of stuff we run when a disk is hotplugged to create the links in /dev/by-uuid, etc. I.e. maybe the bug is not in udev itself. So, does anyone know how to make udev stopping gracefully to detect the full list of partitions, and restrict itself to real hardware? The kernel itself parses the partition table. Did it output any error messages? Also, I should probably report that bug, but how could I find more informations to provide, since I strongly doubt that it can be reproduced, and so fixed, without the correct partition table? Indeed. Either preserve enough of that partition table to be able to reproduce the bug, or give up on it ever being found at the moment you decide to clean up the disk to be able to use it :-( I've already built an image of the disk, but it's a 500GB disk. I doubt you'll want to download it hehe. So, what part of that disk should I extract, which could be usable and sharable? Partition table, of course, which is probably at disk's beginning, but how long might it be? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d997408f450877b3ee228348b0ed9...@neutralite.org
Re: HURD
Le 14.11.2014 11:14, Darac Marjal a écrit : On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 09:51:42PM -0400, Jetro Costa wrote: When Debian Hurd gona be ready for us for x64 plataform? Probably when the upstream develops a 64-bit version. Which, according to [1], is currently never. [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/faq/64-bit.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1415929902.3579.1.camel@gordao300 Is the 32bit version ready, anyway? :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9dbb43f4838a4ac984fb8193d898f...@neutralite.org
Re: Re: Valuing non-code contributions -- was Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling
Le 11.11.2014 22:53, Miles Fidelman a écrit : On a broader note, Debian, Linux, *nix in general, and FOSS software are a complex and highly-interdependent ecosystem. Yes some people just take, but an awful lot of us contribute in various ways, in various places, to the overall ecosystem - be it writing upstream code, libraries, documentation, providing training, doing policy work (can you say EFF), crafting open-source licenses, providing support in various forms. The gnu tools, glibc, the kernel - without those, there would be no Debian or other distributions. Arguably, without the GPL, there wouldn't be a lot of FOSS software. EFF goes out and fights legal battles to protect the ecosystem. An awful lot of code depends on Apache, MySQL, SQL Lite, and so forth. And it goes on. The pieces are highly interdependent, and in many cases, a contribution to one project, or activity, benefits many others. While I generally agree in your ideas, I disagree that all, or most, pieces are that interdependent (but, some are, yes. I usually try to avoid those, thought, because it's a bad idea to put all yours eggs in the same basket. I favor portable tools, and when I contribute to something, my contributions never goes in non-portability direction. Never, except when I do not know it :) ). My reason is that, excepted when you start your software based on non-standard, non-portable tools, you can replace parts of the ecosystem with other tools. You speak about mysql/sqlite for example. Stuff which relies on specificities of mysql (for example) are not easy to port, indeed, but lot of things which just rely on SQL can be ported quite easily from a SQL engine to another. It's one of the reason for which I generally tend to limit myself to pure SQL when I need stuff of this kind. For sqlite, it's harder, because it happens that it's the easiest and probably more efficient SQL engine able to avoid bothering the user with painful rights problems and complex setup. Now, firebird is also able to run in an embedded mode. In facts, imho the FOSS' power comes from that fact: when there is enough need for a technology, alternatives spawn, because there is always someone to disagree about how things are done. And when there are alternatives, choice, pieces of the choice leads other pieces to improvement (a good example here is clang vs gcc). The only thing which comes into my mind which does not respect that point is... Xorg, for which I does not know about any alternative (which does not mean that there is no alternative). Probably because it's very, very complex, probably too much, and I've heard that this complexity is the reason behind wayland. And with wayland, we can hope that in few years there could be other implementations of the protocol. At first, I wanted to speak about GCC as another unique software without alternatives, and the glibc (which is a part of GCC). However, I am not in FOSS world since enough time to know how it was before, and nowadays, there is clang, which is also far better for my uses. In short: bazaar includes various versions of the same kind of stuff. The fact that pieces of a bazaar (which can be cathedrals, why not?) can be replaced by other is a strength. But, in the end, yes, contributing to some pieces can imply improvements of the whole picture. And, obviously, code is not the only way to contribute to a project. On small projects with only few devs, even simply showing them interest help. And before someone says it, yes, for systemD there are inter-operable alternatives. At least one: uselessd (remember: I said that there is always someone to disagree ;) ). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/66fb42f756c29f1bf1758e7d78a08...@neutralite.org
Re: forks, derivatives, other distros - what are you thinking/doing
Le 09.11.2014 05:05, Hendrik Boom a écrit : On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:32:57 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: 1. What are your issues, reasons for doing so - general and/or specific? I've had trouble with passwords in the network-manager starting a few months ago. I tried a few other wifi connectivity tools, and ended up with wicd. What was different about wicd was that (i) it worked, and (ii) it was independent of systemd. I don't know whether the introduction of expansion of systemd had anything to do with my problems. This might be a policykit-related issue. AFAIK, policykit has been deprecated in favor of systemd-login0. From what you describe, it seems the migration from policykit to systemd-login0 (which is not systemd itself, but only a module. I hope I'm not wrong here, since I do not really understand the language used in systemd-world). I've started to have trouble mounting the NTFS partition on my machine from Linux. No problem doing this in Windows, of course. I used to be able to mount it from the file manager after entering the root password. Starting a month or so ago, the file manager would tantalizingly show me the partition but refuse to let me mount it because I didn't have the proveleges. Finally, it stopped even showing me that partition. Of course I cann still log in as root and mount it from the command line, copy any files from it, and chown them to myself. But it is unnecessarily awkward. I understand systemd had involved itselg with permissions. Could this be relevant? I have the same problem with usb sticks -- having to be root to use them. Again, I have no idea whether the architecture changes caused by systemd has any relevance to this, but the general level of paranoia that is starting to exist makes me suspicious, perhaps unjustly. This could be udev-related. Udev is the part of the system which fills /dev. It does this at boot, and while your computer run. The current man-page says that, the udev daemon, systemd-udevd.service(8), receives device uevents directly from the kernel whenever a device is added or removed from the system, or it changes its state. You can build rules in /etc/udev, which could eventually allow you to fix your problem by yourself. I can't really help you about how to write the rule, since I have never tried to build some myself. Why things have stopped working, is a good question: maybe a change in /dev/disk/by-uuid? Does things works anew if you create a user to login with (and so, with a clear $HOME)? It seems that your problems seems to not be systemd-related, since systemd is only the PID1 process' stuff. They are only related to things which are parts of the systemd...hum... sorry, softwares which shares the same source-code repository that systemd uses. Yeah, some irony here, indeed. I won't argue about the fact that udev/login0 are or are not parts of systemd. I do not mind, in facts. PS: about knowing which software is used by which DE to do some task, I agree with you. Now, you can retrieve this information quite easily: use aptitude in ncurses mode, find the meta-package which is named after your DE (xfce4 in your case), and take a look at the depended softwares. For some kind of softwares, there is stuff provided by the alternative system. I do not know if there is something for file browsers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/8c4f5aca51881d9d55ce8734469bd...@neutralite.org
Re: Re: Has the systemd fork already happened?
Le 10.11.2014 13:49, fsmithred a écrit : Pinned dbus and libpulse0 to wheezy versions and util-linux to the last jessie version that didn't need libsystemd0. It seems to be working, so far, but as mentioned, it may break at some point with upgrades. I wonder if there is some compilation flag to allow building more recent versions of libpulse0 and other systemd-dependent stuff without that dependency. Of course, in that case, someone which want the systemd's stuff will need to either rebuild package or switch distro. I wonder if this is actually an issue or not, in regard of your goals? I took a very quick look today to what appear to be refracta's official website, but have not noticed why systemd would be avoided by this distro. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/8d9c3ac4ba60127c4b9ca02801bad...@neutralite.org
Re: forks, derivatives, other distros - what are you thinking/doing
Le 06.11.2014 00:40, Nuno Magalhães a écrit : A sane approach would be to improve the bits that neet improving, like the (sadly named) uselessd, openrc, etc. Just a note, here. Uselessd is a well-named systemd's fork. Well named, because it does less that systemd. And it does have the systemd's approach, restarting things from the same point of view of systemd. The only, but MAJOR difference, is that they know where they'll stop adding features. Unlike systemD. I dislike systemd, now what? I'm left with no system. Technically, you still are able to install systemV instead of it. In practice, you will have systemV with systemd's behavior, and that's the main reason for me at looking somewhere else, and depending on the tools you usually install, you might end with a huge list of systemd's modules on your system. And the impact it'll have on all the Debian-based distros? Simple. They'll follow Debian, because if they took Debian as a base, it's probably because they are not able or do not want to do the immense and valuable work Debian does by themselves. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/3df6983e4400379042eb0e0e94b0c...@neutralite.org
Re: forks, derivatives, other distros - what are you thinking/doing
Le 06.11.2014 10:26, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : On Mi, 05 nov 14, 09:32:57, Miles Fidelman wrote: 3. What other options/initiatives are you aware of that you've discarded or otherwise are not considering, and why? Not sure why you're not considering Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. Due to the BSD kernel it's guaranteed to not have systemd, not even the libraries, and it's still Debian. The last news I had about it, were that it would not be an official release for next stable, Jessie. I was really sad when I learned about that, because it was in my plans to try to use it. I did some tests, too, which were not good enough to allow me to use it on a desktop for work, so I was looking at Jessie to give it more tries, giving that it would gave me my usual Debian feeling plus some discoveries about how freeBSD supports hardware. Maybe then, I would have switched to BSD, but I would have been prepared. I still might go in that direction, but it will be without assurance that I'll understand what I'll need to do. Here's the text: The final architecture check was completed in mid-September, and the current agreed list of architectures for Jessie is amd64, armel and armhf, i386, kfreebsd-amd64 and kfreebsd-i386, mips, mipsel, powerpc and s390x. The final decision for kFreeBSD ports, for which human resources is a concern, and arm64 and ppc64el ports, which made good progress and have strong support, is expected in the very beginning of November. So, we still do not know if kFree will be supported or not. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9217f1ec9eefa2d4b4cf446647cab...@neutralite.org
Re: Debian 6.2 and Systemd ?
Le 05.11.2014 13:23, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI a écrit : On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:49:57 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: When I install, I set up partitions with labels. This avoids UUIDs and uses labels instead. Many thanks; for setting the partitions with labels, is that an option in the install ? (Remember, I am new to Debian ;-3) Yes. You need to go for manual partitioning. But that is worth doing anyway. Yes, given that I have for a long time used separate partitions for /boot, /var, and /home. But I doubt that Debian installer will use those labels. Last time I checked, (current stable) it still used UUID in configuration files, even with LABELS defined by installer. But it's not that hard to fix this issue, there are not so many files dealing with partitions. I only know about /etc/lilo.conf (since I do not use grub) and fstab. Vim'em and you'll be done :) Then one of the options is setting a label. I don't know for sure that you cannot set a label via automatic partitioning. I just don't know that you can. I wonder how could an automatic labeling works. What if you have conflicting labels because of an external device is plugged in? if you have already installed Debian with Gnome. Applications - Accessories - Disk Utility You can set the partitions labels. Thanks, but having dropped Mageia so I could get rid of the KDE bloat, I'm not inclined to get into the Gnome bloat; and even more so when I read that Gnome will make systemd a dependency... There is gparted, which is located in gnome's part of aptitude tree, but trust me, this tool is neither bloated nor gnome-centric. You don't even have to install sudo or any variant. If you don't (as I) you simply need to run it as root, after a su. About the gnome's systemd dependency... well, AFAIK, gentoo managed to get rid of it, so it's still not that bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/ff1425bf541b806eceac1f417ecbe...@neutralite.org
Re: forks, derivatives, other distros - what are you thinking/doing
Le 05.11.2014 15:32, Miles Fidelman a écrit : Specifically addressed to those of you who are responding to systemd, etc., by considering: - finding ways to make it easier to install/configure Debian without (or with minimal) systemd dependencies (certainly not in PID1) - migrating to another distro or platform - forking, deriving, or otherwise building a version of Debian that avoids systemd dependencies (or at least systemd in PID1 by default) - developing a new distro entirely [If you're happy with systemd, and not considering a change - please stay out of this discussion. If you object to the very nature of the discussion, hit your delete key and kill file this thread now.] Rather than have this topic keep showing up in various threads, with various uninformative names, what say I just pose the question directly. If you're unhappy with systemd (and it's associated ecosystem), and/or with the directions that it's taking Debian (and/or large portions of the Linux ecosystem): 1. What are your issues, reasons for doing so - general and/or specific? 2. What are you considering, evaluating, or otherwise thinking about? 3. What other options/initiatives are you aware of that you've discarded or otherwise are not considering, and why? Hum. Yet another systemd's thread... hopefully it won't be another endless one. Now, about your questions. 1) I doubt that systemd's developers knows where their puppet will end. I liked the idea of removing those weird shell scripts in /etc/init.d, but it does just too many things now. Really, I can't trust a project which does not have defined boundaries, especially when it's a key component of the system. Also, since the decision was taken to make it the default, my systems running under Jessie were actually slower to boot, with a 30s delay in udev (and I did not changed the init system). A workaround was posted here some months ago, but I can't remember what it was. There is also the fact that now, when I use startx, I am no longer able to read what happen on the TTY where I've started startx. I guess, that it can be configured, but I don't understand why my system's behavior was changed by an update? I do not want a system where the behavior changes without a warning. Of course, it's testing, so things changes... but such a change should not be silent. Those things are facts, that maybe I am the only one to experiment. I do not know, and I do not mind. Also, systemd's key feature to be event-based is useless to me. It probably makes it faster to start working on bloated systems (like, for example, systems which uses gnome or kde?) but I'm not a bloat user. So event-based daemons starts does changes nothing for me. And if I have to configure a real server, for production uses, I would tend to prefer to have something like one service per virtual machine. So, again, useless for me. 2) I want to take a real look to *BSD, especially netBSD. I have read some source code for various basic tools, and it is clear to my eyes: netBSD's code seems to be very clean. FreeBSD seems to have some efforts in virtualisation too, with bhyve, but it's a type 2 hyperv, like virtualbox, so I'm not really sure about it. And I did not had the feeling that it's ready for production use from what I've read. Also, I am curious about what will happen to uselessd and udev alternatives. They might allow to build interesting things. Gentoo interests me a lot, also. I always had an eye on it, and even tried it. But failed. Next holidays, again? I know that it requires more maintenance than Debian, but I guess that it might not be that dramatic if it is only used as dom0 for xen, with some *BSD machines on it. Updating almost only kernel+xen should not be that time-consuming, right? 3) LFS. Because, for now, I do not have time and skills. Maybe on my next holidays? Debian fork, or something like that, I do not remember the URI... but anyway, what I felt when I discovered the site, was that I was reading some childish declarations of doing the wheel better than what exists. We'll see if anything can spawn from that, but I've no faith there. Sometimes, when I feel by far smarter than I really am, I think that it might be possible to improve dpkg, to do stuff like gentoo's package manager. And why not make it able to install softwares in ~? And why not make aptitude less bloated? While I would be there, I also could make all that stuff able to do more than one thing at a time and so improve the speed (at least, downloading, unpacking, and selecting packages could be made without blocking other tasks)... But then I wake up: I'm not smart enough to do that kind of things :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/edb9f54a8276bacf5fa6f82be1915...@neutralite.org
Re: Need URGENT help : how to connect cable modem
Le 04.11.2014 07:11, Long Wind a écrit : the ISP connect me using cable modem Now in Windows XP I need to enter user/password to connect the connection is PPPoE how to do that in Linux Thanks!!! Please, read this. http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html You might then have more replies, and more useful ones. Because, when I see a mail like yours, I simply want to say: go use RedHat Linux Edition. I hear that they have a paid support, for urgent problems. Here, there is only a bunch of people trying to help as best as they can, without being paid for that. So, they do not really feel concerned by the fact you do not seem to have searched a solution, they will probably not try to guess what you tried, and they will very probably not be concerned about your... emergency. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9cc3db8cd4c6fc6394b5a477c5295...@neutralite.org
Re: umask has no man page?
Le 03.11.2014 04:30, Joe Pfeiffer a écrit : Carl Fink c...@finknetwork.com writes: When I wanted the options for umask, I typed 'man umask' and got the man page for it as a C header diretive? (I'm not a C programmer, but it seemed to be for C header files and came from section 2.) This is darn confusing for a new user. I have been around long enough (slink) that I quickly realized it must be a Bash builtin and found that man page, but how would a beginner know that? Surely a symbolic link could be set up for umask as well as the others (bg, eval, fg, read, etc.)? Should I file this as a bug against Sid? I know there's no chance it will make it into Wheezy. The underlying problem is that umask isn't a standalone command, it's a shell builtin. So if you look at the bash manpage you can find the (very terse) documention; of course, there's no hint anywhere that you should do that. Just as for (looking at some other builtins) ulimit, unalias, unset I already fell into that kind of problems. It is quite frustrating when you are trying to learn, to have to go on Internet to do a whatever search on man something. On this present topic, I have learn various commands (which is good) and I am wondering if, finally, help, man and info should not be considered as low level functions. I do not think the beginner expects to have to run something like this: $ cmd=man;apropos $cmd 2/dev/null man $cmd || help $cmd Plus, this won't work as nicely as it might be expected, since help $cmd won't be very informative. Of course, one could use info $(basename $SHELL) instead, but then he would have to search for the exact part of the info manual, which is (imho): _ not trivial (ok, it is probably because I do not know how emacs works, I guess info is more emacs-like, when less is closer to vi, with which I am more familiar) _ inefficient: seriously, why does not it uses the complete width of the termninal? I *have* to print 3 info pages side-by-side to use my screen efficiently when I read documentation. Plus, if for some reason, I have to have a smaller terminal window, then it become simply unreadable! And those points are not only true in a terminal-emulator. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/422a67716f16d677ecc5bf28c182f...@neutralite.org
Re: terminal spreadsheet - sc fork
Le 30.10.2014 23:23, Andrés Martinelli a écrit : Hello there!! I am working on a terminal spreadsheet based on sc, but with some adds like undo/redo.. you can find it here: https://github.com/andmarti1424/scim [1] Any new ideas and/or contribution is always welcome! Thanks! Sounds like an interesting idea. What formats is it able to use, currently? I'll watch that project closely, since I am very interested by every program which could allow me to be efficient without a mouse. Also, I have noticed a crash at exit, file history.c, line 108, segfault. It seems it happens at other times, too. It's quit easy to fix: just check that nl-pnext is not null before assigning NULL to nl-pnext-pant. Now, that's the quick fix, it will solve the crash, but maybe not the real bug (I imagine that this linked list does something... but I can't guess what in less than 5 minutes.) Have fun! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/31be81241f40cc4af111621e5532a...@neutralite.org
Re: multiple redmine sites
Le 30.10.2014 10:42, Bram Diederik a écrit : 2014-10-29 17:19 GMT+01:00 : Le 29.10.2014 16:11, Bram Diederik a écrit : So, you probably should have one virtual host like and the other one like ? -- Yes and both there own FcgidInitialEnv X_DEBIAN_SITEID setting. FcgidInitialEnv X_DEBIAN_SITEID default for the 443 site FcgidInitialEnv X_DEBIAN_SITEID dev for the 3000 site but both sites connect to the default site when i visit them with some browser Can you show the whole exact content of your /etc/apache2/sites-enabled please? Could you also show the content of /etc/redmine/ (for i in $(find /etc/redmine); do echo $i;cat $i;done will do the job)? Oeps.. pressed the wrong button.. Lets try again the /etc/redmine// configuration is not correct... I configured it with dpkg-reconfigure ... I think thats the problem.. looking into it I do not see something which would make problem in your apache's sites, so yes, maybe in redmine's configurations. If you have solved your issue, I would be interested to know the error you had, it might be useful someday :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/502e5d6466d10bfa049c873dcc41f...@neutralite.org
Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on seperate partition
Le 30.10.2014 15:35, Peter Nieman a écrit : On 30/10/14 11:35, David Baron wrote: I think this problem should be resolved. I know the newer desirable keeping of /usr on /. However, I would bet 99% of existing multi-partition Debian installations have usr on a separate partition. Historically and even recent installations (not that I like the partitioning done by the installer, but ) I may move mine soon once I resolve some disk hardware issues but I should not have to do this just to get rid of a superfluous fail message and switch to verbose mode. When I installed Squeeze on a new PC three years ago I blindly followed the installer's partitioning advice since I thought the Debian developers would certainly know better than me. One Debian version later I found out that my root partition had probably been created much too small because it couldn't even hold two different kernels. Another Debian version later, a young man, Mr. Poettering, tells the Debian developers that the partitioning scheme they always recommended was broken. I guess I can now look forward to learning whether an upgrade to Jessie - should I ever attempt one and not go back to Slackware or try another OS out of desperation - will fail due to lack of disk space or lack of compatibility with existing partitioning schemes. OMG. Hum... I think I always have seen the installer on all in one partition (beginners)? If you have selected this one, then, you should not have problems because of stuff not mounted. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/75f4331ae92b0f0d9d9a15cc98f69...@neutralite.org
Re: multiple redmine sites
Le 29.10.2014 11:04, Bram Diederik a écrit :
2014-10-28 15:59 GMT+01:00 :
Le 28.10.2014 15:19, Bram Diederik a écrit :
I am able to connect to the databases
here is the config of the default site , dev site only has a
different X_DEBIAN_SITEID setting e.g. FcgidInitialEnv
X_DEBIAN_SITEID dev
---
FcgidInitialEnv RAILS_RELATIVE_URL_ROOT
FcgidInitialEnv X_DEBIAN_SITEID default
Alias /plugin_assets/
/var/cache/redmine/default/plugin_assets/
DocumentRoot /usr/share/redmine/public
Options +FollowSymLinks +ExecCGI
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
RewriteEngine On
RewriteRule ^$ index.html [QSA]
RewriteRule ^([^.]+)$ $1.html [QSA]
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f [OR]
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME}
dispatch.fcgi$
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ dispatch.fcgi [QSA,L]
SSLEngine on
SSLCertificateFile
/etc/ssl/certs/ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem
SSLCertificateKeyFile
/etc/ssl/private/ssl-cert-snakeoil.key
Hello.
I think the problem comes from your apache's configuration. This
should help you:
https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/vhosts/index.html [1]
In short, you need to setup different VirtualHosts. They can
differ with name, but this will imply a correct DNS configuration I
guess, or by IPs/port, which might be easier if you do not have
access to your DNS. In that case, users will have to know the
correct IP/port of the instance.
If you go to a different port, users will have to use it when
accessing the server, for example: http://localhost:443/redmine
[2], or http://localhost:444/redmine [3]. You will have to take
care no daemon is listening to ports you used.
If you go for a different IP, you can simply add it in
/etc/network/interface, by adding (for example) a eth0:0 address.
Users will need to know that address, which might be static, or set
by a DHCP.
I'm not an expert on that, so I might be wrong.
PS: There are some usages on this (and some other) mailing list:
Only reply to the list, do not reply to both the guy which replied
and the list, or worse, only to the guy (except special cases).
Try to reply at the end of the message, quoting only the parts of
the message your are replying to. It makes it easier for other
people to contribute to a discussion (since the history is read
from
top to bottom).
Do not use HTML when posting. It does not always behave correctly
everywhere (in my case, it seems my webmail is not able to
understand that the xml parts were not beacons, which made my quote
almost unreadable), and is heavier (some people may have very
limited bandwidth).
--
I dont think changing a virtualhost will fix any thing.
I have two sites the only difference is that One has https 443 and
X_DEBIAN_SITEID default
the other one (sandbox) has http port 3000 and X_DEBIAN_SITEID
sandbox
as described in the README.debian.
Links:
--
[1] https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/vhosts/index.html
[2] http://localhost:443/redmine
[3] http://localhost:444/redmine
[4] mailto:berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
So, you probably should have one virtual host like
VirtualHost *:443
and the other one like
VirtualHost *:3000
?
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Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 29.10.2014 06:38, Charlie a écrit : On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:47:26 -0400 Charles Kroeger sent: It's very maintained on linux. I suggest you try Opera beta. It's the best browser I've used in a long time. Version:26.0.1656.8 - Opera is up to date Update stream: beta System: Debian GNU/Linux jessie/sid (x86_64; XFCE) http://deb.opera.com But dependency hell. [laughing] Which gstreamer* None seem to work without leading to another dependency. I think I stopped using Opera years ago because it was too closed down. Charlie -- Registered Linux User:- 329524 *** The perch swallows the grub-worm, the pickerel swallows the perch, and the fisherman swallows the pickerel; and so all the chinks in the scale of being are filled. ..Henry David Thoreau *** Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic - Considering that I do not use gstreamer at all, I have simply worked around this problem by building fake gstreamer packages. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a919d377c52246d0cab5bbda83740...@neutralite.org
Re: multiple redmine sites
Le 29.10.2014 16:11, Bram Diederik a écrit : So, you probably should have one virtual host like and the other one like ? -- Yes and both there own FcgidInitialEnv X_DEBIAN_SITEID setting. FcgidInitialEnv X_DEBIAN_SITEID default for the 443 site FcgidInitialEnv X_DEBIAN_SITEID dev for the 3000 site but both sites connect to the default site when i visit them with some browser Can you show the whole exact content of your /etc/apache2/sites-enabled please? Could you also show the content of /etc/redmine/ (for i in $(find /etc/redmine); do echo $i;cat $i;done will do the job)? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d8e768556669decc74316f4da9e30...@neutralite.org
Re: Lets make `eudev + uselessd` Debian packages?
Le 28.10.2014 03:20, Martinx - ジェームズ a écrit : Hey guys, I would like to evaluate both `eudev` (or any other *udev), plus `uselessd`, on Debian sid/testing. Lets do it?! I' m planning to achieve, at least, CGroups Process with `uselessd` (no init scripts). If things goes well, I think that `uselessd + new udev` might be a good path to follow, mostly because it will not required double-work on maintaining both systemd-stuff + sysinit scripts... And you get a new cool init system! Only a new _init system_... Am I right?! Also, I would like to evaluate the quality of `eudev` itself and the alternatives (including fallback to static /dev). BTW, I see that if `useelssd + eudev` works, then, a Debian fork might not appear, because we can have a systemd-free Debian without extra work of maintaining two completely different init systems. What about that?! I support you. If you need some tester, I could do that. Cheers! Thiago -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/144baf80386ff3561b5775e873cb7...@neutralite.org
Re: multiple redmine sites
Le 28.10.2014 13:37, Bram Diederik a écrit :
Hi all,
I am setting up a bug tracking envoirment for my new job. And
selected redmine for the job.
All is going well but now i try to setup an sandbox environment for
developers and reporters to play around.. the Debian packages states
that you can run multiple envoriments on one debian system but i have
failed in trying to get it done.
I created two sites using dpkg-reconfigure (default and dev)
setup two apache sites using the example:
/usr/share/doc/redmine/examples/apache2-host.conf
and changed the FcgidInitialEnv X_DEBIAN_SITEID to dev for the dev
environment
but when i access the dev site the site has the default content
Can some one help me out please?
thanks in advanced.
Bram
Hello.
Can you show the content of the files in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled ?
Then, which SGBDR did you use? mysql? postgresql? sqlite? Have you one
DB per virtual host? Can you access to each DB?
If you have 2 virtual hosts and 1 DB for each vhost and if they are
correctly configured, then the problem might come from your redmine's
configuration.
How did you managed to have 2 instances?
I think that the easiest, could be to deploy those instances on VMs,
which have the advantage of easier individual deployment, and better
flexibility: if one day you have to move an instance from a physical
server to another one, just move the VM. To do the network linkage
between the host and it's VMs, you can use iptables.
For that, you'll need to enable ip forwarding in the host computer (the
easiest but non-resilient solution for this is: echo 1
/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward ) and then masquerade ( iptables -t nat
-A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE ) and finally ports redirection (
iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -d $localip -p tcp --dport
${http_port[$i]} -j DNAT --to ${http_ip[$i]}:80 ).
The only constraint here, is that you'll need to do those commands at
each reboot. So, when you have something which works, move it into a
script, and either call it from /etc/init.d or manually after reboots.
That's the easiest, but it might not meet your requirements, and the
commands I gave simply works for me (I have recently deployed a combo
with redmine+git+virtual machines, using the VMs to emulate production
environment, but I am in no way an expert with apache+ruby stuff, which
are messy imho).
Good luck. Deploying one instance of redmine was painful enough for
me...
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Re: Lets make `eudev + uselessd` Debian packages?
Le 28.10.2014 14:34, Jonathan Dowland a écrit : Andrei's reply has lots of useful stuff in it, I just had two things to add: On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 12:20:24AM -0200, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote: If things goes well, I think that `uselessd + new udev` might be a good path to follow, mostly because it will not required double-work on maintaining both systemd-stuff + sysinit scripts... And you get a new cool init system! Only a new _init system_... Am I right?! Wrong, I'm afraid. Debian policy is to provide init scripts and to support multiple init systems, so daemon packages can't stop doing that, they have to support sysvinit scripts for the forseeable future. What he meant is probably that it won't add work to anybody since people are more on the move to only support systemd's units (which will probably be compatible with uselessd, but I doubt it will be as perfect as I would, since uselessd does less things...). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1f8cafa9e57b2a5f14612fcc68f65...@neutralite.org
Re: multiple redmine sites
Le 28.10.2014 15:19, Bram Diederik a écrit :
I am able to connect to the databases
here is the config of the default site , dev site only has a
different X_DEBIAN_SITEID setting e.g. FcgidInitialEnv
X_DEBIAN_SITEID dev
---
IfModule mod_ssl.c
VirtualHost *:443
FcgidInitialEnv RAILS_RELATIVE_URL_ROOT
FcgidInitialEnv X_DEBIAN_SITEID default
Alias /plugin_assets/
/var/cache/redmine/default/plugin_assets/
DocumentRoot /usr/share/redmine/public
Directory /usr/share/redmine/public
Options +FollowSymLinks +ExecCGI
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
RewriteEngine On
RewriteRule ^$ index.html [QSA]
RewriteRule ^([^.]+)$ $1.html [QSA]
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f [OR]
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} dispatch.fcgi$
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ dispatch.fcgi [QSA,L]
/Directory
SSLEngine on
SSLCertificateFile/etc/ssl/certs/ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem
SSLCertificateKeyFile /etc/ssl/private/ssl-cert-snakeoil.key
/VirtualHost
/IfModule
Hello.
I think the problem comes from your apache's configuration. This should
help you:
https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/vhosts/index.html
In short, you need to setup different VirtualHosts. They can differ
with name, but this will imply a correct DNS configuration I guess, or
by IPs/port, which might be easier if you do not have access to your
DNS. In that case, users will have to know the correct IP/port of the
instance.
If you go to a different port, users will have to use it when accessing
the server, for example: http://localhost:443/redmine;, or
http://localhost:444/redmine;. You will have to take care no daemon is
listening to ports you used.
If you go for a different IP, you can simply add it in
/etc/network/interface, by adding (for example) a eth0:0 address.
Users will need to know that address, which might be static, or set by a
DHCP.
I'm not an expert on that, so I might be wrong.
PS: There are some usages on this (and some other) mailing list:
Only reply to the list, do not reply to both the guy which replied and
the list, or worse, only to the guy (except special cases).
Try to reply at the end of the message, quoting only the parts of the
message your are replying to. It makes it easier for other people to
contribute to a discussion (since the history is read from top to
bottom).
Do not use HTML when posting. It does not always behave correctly
everywhere (in my case, it seems my webmail is not able to understand
that the xml parts were not beacons, which made my quote almost
unreadable), and is heavier (some people may have very limited
bandwidth).
--
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Re: Linux kernel version for Jessie
Le 27.10.2014 01:12, Santiago Vila a écrit : On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 10:56:19PM +0200, Georgi Naplatanov wrote: what kernel version will Jessie have when it became stable ? Is there any chance for newer version than 3.16.x (for example 3.17.x, 3.18.x). Is this important at all? You will always be able to build your own kernel or use one from backports. The importance is that, this version of the kernel is not a LTS (but it seems that Ubuntu will maintain it anyway...). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5ac7939249e98a0bc7f374a9ddf8a...@neutralite.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 23.10.2014 20:40, lee a écrit : berenger.mo...@neutralite.org writes: The only problem is bash, here: it is unable to handle multi-instances, so the histories are lost more or less randomly when I close/spawn terminals and sessions. # append history rather than overwriting it shopt -s histappend Interesting. I'll try this ASAP. Do you use tmux? No, I do not really see the interest of using it, I must admit it. -- Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons might swallow us. Finally, this fear has become reasonable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/3682d558c5ae72aa35d1b8e85f018...@neutralite.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 21.10.2014 23:37, Steve Litt a écrit : On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 00:58:27 +0200 lee l...@yagibdah.de wrote: berenger.mo...@neutralite.org writes: But my opinion is that, it's the accumulation of tools using different slow languages, which will kill the computer's resources (shell, python2, python3, php, perl, basic, whatever). Perl isn't exactly slow, considering what it does. In any case, pick the right tool for the job --- and I'm finding perl really amazing in some regards. For an interpreter (you know what I mean), when I used Perl it was fast as hell. You'd need to go to Lua or Luajit to get a faster interpreter. I do not know if perl or python or dash or ruby or php are fast or not. I am just wondering, what's the result of having every single single interpretor, with various programs depending on one or another, on the same computer. You know, I think it is something like having a mix between softwares written for Qt, Gtk, WxWidgets, etc all on the same computer. Alone, they're all fast, and with other softwares sharing the technology, speed increases (since you load in memory the dynamic libraries only once, future uses are accelerated. Theoretically.). But now, when your system need to load all of those, what's the result? I have the same worries about interpretors, especially about python, I must admit it. For dash scripting, it's ok, I know it's not about a fashion technology. For perl, the same, and it might be actually faster than dash (which needs external binaries and processes started frequently to do common things, like using regexes). I know (or I think I do) what it was made for. And it was not to create a new language better than everything which exists with new hype technos and with forced coding style (I have read that perl was written to avoid the collisions of awk's, grep's, sed's, shells' bugs and to have a more consistent syntax). But I am afraid by the use of such languages when then can break backward compatibility with too much ease. For example, lsof, a tool which is regularly useful, depends on either perl 5.12 or libperl4-corelibs-perl. But maybe I'm too paranoid about backward compatibility and avoiding having a different technology for each program installed on my system. One of the first things I do when writing software is figure what the bottleneck is. If the bottleneck is the user's molassas slow 140 word per minute typing, I'll use an interpreter every time so I'm not the guy doing allocation and garbage collection and bounds checking. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance I do not know if perl or python or dash or ruby or php are fast or not. I am just wondering, what's the result of having every single single interpretor, with various programs depending on one or another, on the same computer. Are interpretors that light, that accumulating them does not cause overhead? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/afac4d6a0f0a36e28ae89aeb877f7...@neutralite.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 20.10.2014 17:29, Steve Litt a écrit : On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 03:37:56 +0200 berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: And, finally, I consider myself as a DE user. My DE is built by myself around a terminal-emulator, a tiling window manager, Which one? i3 I use Openbox, which of course isn't tiling. and several applications, Such as? * some games, like ace-of-penguis, wesnoth, redeclipse, widelands... * alsamixer * aptitude * bc * bouml (the GPL version, unmaintained but can still help) * cgdb * cifs-utils (at work, since I sometimes need to share stuff with windows users) * clang+ various coding tools like (astyle, cmake, some scripts, etc) * dia * doxygen (with it's gui) * feh * galculator (the gtk2 based version, to avoid gtk3 and it's stupid dependencies) * gftp (that I could probably delete) * git * gparted * latex * leafpad * libreoffice (at work only) * meld * mpc/ncmpcpp/mpd * mpv/mplayer, depending on the version of Debian * numlockx (I do not understand why does linux change that damned lock at boot...) * ssh * 7zip * pgadmin (at work, and I tend to avoid it since it's unstable as hell) * virtualbox * wxhexeditor * xpaint * xosview * zenmap * zim * i3status * i3lock * blender (only used as toy level, when I have some time to waste. Unfortunately, I'm not good enough with that kind of stuff) * opera: I really can't use that firefox strange GUI based on IE... the config box is just too messy, and while you need plug-ins to do basic things like block JS on a per-site basis, you have stupid and dangerous things like a page which shows the lasts websites you went on. And I won't speak about the pain to remove every google reference and then add your own search URIs... opera might be closed source and unmaintained on linux, it's still my favorite. There are tools I would like to replace since most of those have issues, which can be too much features --that I do not intend to use--, but they're the best I have found for now. feh is really good, if I may give my opinion about it: it just does what you asks it to do, and it does it nicely. Rare enough to be said :) My main apps are: * Sigil * Bluefish * Iceweasel (I use xxxterm on Ubuntu) * Vim * VimOutliner * LyX * Gnumeric * LibreOffice Impress * The various programming languages * UMENU * dmenu but it's still a DE. A light one, an efficient one, a personal one, but it's my DE. :D An afficienado would argue with you that it's a DE only if the apps can all interact. Me, I'd prefer all my apps mind their own business, but hey, that's just me. Hum... I see no music player or screen locker in your short list, but I use mpd and i3lock. A nice thing when you bind shortcuts or special keys to scripts: you lock the screen, it automatically pause the current song, and when unlocked, the song continues. When I receive a mail, the workspace number where claws rely is colored in red, as claws' decorations, which is helpful but not distracting if I am doing something. I also have a script which allows me to define the folder my new bash instances will go in when I spawn new terminal (I never use the useless feature of tabbed stuff. I should hack the code to remove it...). When programming, it helps, a lot. The only problem is bash, here: it is unable to handle multi-instances, so the histories are lost more or less randomly when I close/spawn terminals and sessions. I won't lie to you: My environment is an Integrated Development Desktop Environment. It does the same as the classic ones: I have panes containing defined tools at defined places, and I can hide/unhide them at will in single keystroke. Or spawn/kill them. Interactions between them are only scripts that I made. The difference is: I, and only I, have chosen the applications, their shortcuts, and their places. And I'm free to change that when I want, usually in good old text files. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/6f5036faa992d96295fdd55d3bdec...@neutralite.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 18.10.2014 22:44, John Hasler a écrit : Steve Litt writes: The process, the questions it asked, and the automatic collection of my computer's configuration made submitting the bug trivial. *Every* project should have one of these. Unfortunately as soon as you mention email their ears close up. The point is that, Debian is a big project, with lot of people working on it, not always programmers (I suppose). At least, I guess it have to be like this. But, if, for example, I take i3, there are far less people working on it, essentially programmers. They do not necessarily have time to do the triaging of bugs, and so they ask the users to post on a bug tracker. I understand that it's painful for a user to register here and there, but I also understand that programmers do not necessarily have time to triage mailed bug reports into a correct DB, with lot of emails just saying hey, it does not work!. The web interfaces (like redmine) usually force the users to fill some informations about the problem. I'm a programmer, so I can assure you that that kind of... hum... bug reports, happen frequently, forcing programmers to buy a tarot and to learn to use it. So, I can see how the Debian's idea of reportbug is great, especially if bugs are reported upstream by maintainers with the infos needed by programmers to focus on actually fixing the bug. That's an important job, but it's not really something people will usually notice. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/946a0cf468b76aeb679525cd8c003...@neutralite.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 19.10.2014 17:03, Steve Litt a écrit : Rapid Application Development, Army Surplus style, which of course makes me a pariah in the eyes of real programmers. Life's tough. Real programmers don't need RAD, they only use butterflies (1). About RAD and interpreted languages, I do not really share what seems to be the common philosophy nowadays. My personnal opinion is that a good enough software will never kill a computer's resources alone, if the computer is correctly sized for the need, C, ASM, python or whatever might be the language. But my opinion is that, it's the accumulation of tools using different slow languages, which will kill the computer's resources (shell, python2, python3, php, perl, basic, whatever). I do not really mind and won't insult someone because he prefer a different techno, though. Except maybe if I notice that his software is contamining the other softwares I use. Plus, the shame with most of those languages is that, you can't be sure that it'll still work correctly on modern computers in 5 years: the languages might have changed in non-compatible ways (python?). That's why, I do not share your opinion on that point. But, I do not consider myself a good programmer, so don't worry I know I may be wrong --and am on a lot of points-- :) 1: https://xkcd.com/378/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/23019e08edb5985f35e77b0081af4...@neutralite.org
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
Le 18.10.2014 07:06, Steve Litt a écrit : If they vote no on the GR, then I think that unless Red Hat succeeds in systemdizing X itself, we'll (meaning those of us who care) will replace systemd-contaminated software with init-agnostic software. And for sure, boycott all systemd-dependent software to the best of our ability. Did they successed with wayland? I just took a look at weston and it seems to be linked to stuffD... and with Dbus, when I thought I had read time ago things about them using a home-made bus, because they thought dbus was too heavy... I hope I'm wrong? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/aab44600d5a21e53baffe46596928...@neutralite.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 19.10.2014 16:15, Steve Litt a écrit : On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 12:47:03 +0200 Peter Nieman gmane-a...@t-online.de wrote: By the way, I am a desktop user, using fvwm. But I don't want all my applications to look and feel the same, I don't want everything to interact with everything, and I want to control my computer instead of being controlled by my computer. Quoted For Truth!!! It's not that true... I wonder what you'll say if, for example, all those pixel-shiny applications like aptitude, ncmpc, vim, emacs, or mutt, had sometimes white background, sometimes black, or red... But, what is obvious is, that we do not need any dbus to achieve that goal. Only a video server (I consider x-terminal-emulators being like Xorg: they eventually read input, pass it to program, and pass the program's output to user, like Xorg). And, finally, I consider myself as a DE user. My DE is built by myself around a terminal-emulator, a tiling window manager, and several applications, but it's still a DE. A light one, an efficient one, a personal one, but it's my DE. :D -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a15f017a3725ec590e3d91fabbe43...@neutralite.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 18.10.2014 16:29, Peter Nieman a écrit : As far as I am concerned, I don't have the time right now to learn the officially accepted procedures of filing bug reports in Debian Just run bugreport (or is it reportbug? I don't have a Debian currently, but I'm trying to fix that :p) . It'll ask you several questions the first time, like, do you want gtk based interface, what's your level of knowledge, etc. Then, the normal way it works: _ asking which package is buggy _ checking if there are some updates _ if yes, it asks if the user want to report anyway _ before letting you send a bug report, it will list the current list (which is sometimes pretty long, but not always) _ it asks you if your bug is already there _ if yes, it will ask you if you want to improve the bug report _ otherwise, it will ask you to write the report _ last step, it will ask if you want to be noticed when there are changes on the report Pretty simple imo. Nicely done. And no registration neeeded, which is really great! (seriously, registering on every damned bug tracker in the world is a pain. In debian, this problem is well fixed!) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/26f42cab76ec5f1447bef5a96b448...@neutralite.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 18.10.2014 16:14, Brian a écrit : Which once again raises the main question; what does systemd have to do with this? The original post gives an unexplained solution to a non-existent problem. Dbus is (a crap, but not only) a tool to allow applications to share informations with other applications (why should those apps to do so, is often a mistery for me. Especially why should them have to do that in XML...). I guess that claws uses (lib)dbus to notify dbus-compliant softwares that there is a new mail. Softwares like, for example, notification-daemon (which also depends only on libdbus, but I failed to use it without dbus, I must admit it. Did not spend lot of time on that, anyway, it might be easy.). Now, how softwares did before was maybe a nightmare. Doing the wheel everytime, in different fashion, etc. The other reliable technique I know is through window managers, by setting a flag (I do not know how it's named, I only know about this technique because some softwares uses it... like, for example, claws.) which, depending on the WM, will result in a visual and or audio hint. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a3fb148d24041344a87dbded873ee...@neutralite.org
Re: recent, stable (debian-based) desktop solution without blobs?
Le 16.10.2014 11:05, Wim Bertels a écrit : Hallo, which distro would u recommend given the following wishes: - debian/debian based - stable - recent (ie debian stable being to old for the desktop in my opinion) - no blobs (ie closed firmware for example) in the kernel or default installation - having the option to choose non free software Debian testing? Is it correct to assume the only derivatives of debian containing no kernel blobs are the ones listed on fsf (and debian itself)? No. I'm not sure about this, but IIRC, Ubuntu does not include blobs by default. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/af074d9ea79bc9d3eedce6816c0a5...@neutralite.org
Re: Conflict of interest in Debian
Le 15.10.2014 09:11, Jonathan Dowland a écrit : On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:51:07AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: Check out what single company has 30% of the gatekeepers. Surprise, surprise. Damned for their success. We want Linux to be successful, but woe betide any company that actually gets us there... Maybe you want. But I think that most users just want it to work fine and efficiently, which does not necessarily imply being sold massively around the world. The fact is, that linux is actually a success, but it has never been it's objective. It's a consequence of what we like in it: freeness, efficiency, and stability. Market share should not be the objective, it should stay a simple secondary effect. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5c3d04630c750c113ba8e530bacbb...@neutralite.org
Re: Conflict of interest in Debian
Le 15.10.2014 12:09, Brian a écrit : On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 10:41:12 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 15.10.2014 09:11, Jonathan Dowland a écrit : On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:51:07AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: Check out what single company has 30% of the gatekeepers. Surprise, surprise. Damned for their success. We want Linux to be successful, but woe betide any company that actually gets us there... Maybe you want. But I think that most users just want it to work fine and efficiently, which does not necessarily imply being sold massively around the world. He's doing some of the work on Debian; others work with different distributions. They get what they want. Users get what they want. Everyone's a winner. :) Maybe. But, when someone tries to sell stuff a lot, to have a big market share, then that guy must take a large target, which leads to systems which might become less stable or less efficient. And if that guy want to keep his market, then he'll have to avoid people escaping his stuff, this is why vendor locks exists. Definitely, I hope that Debian won't take that road. It it does, then, I'll switch. I'm taking a look at netBSD, even if I guess that I'll have a hard time being successful in feeling as comfortable with it than with Debian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d03f4a85b74311e6b5c80fd2dbab9...@neutralite.org
Re: Conflict of interest in Debian
Le 15.10.2014 12:37, Scott Ferguson a écrit : On 15/10/14 22:08, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 15.10.2014 12:09, Brian a écrit : On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 10:41:12 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 15.10.2014 09:11, Jonathan Dowland a écrit : On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:51:07AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: Check out what single company has 30% of the gatekeepers. Surprise, surprise. Damned for their success. We want Linux to be successful, but woe betide any company that actually gets us there... Maybe you want. But I think that most users just want it to work fine and efficiently, which does not necessarily imply being sold massively around the world. I would have 'thought' all users want it to be useful - but surely I miss your point? (was there a point? I can only work with the words you write and it reads like sophist rhetoric, assume the first nonsense is not and it follows that neither is the second). As far as I'm aware Debian has *never* been sold anywhere, nor are there plans to - did I miss another meeting down the docks? I have never seen Debian sold either. But I was replying to a mail speaking about linux (which is, indirectly, sold with a lot of devices). My point is that there is no need to linux to have commercial sex-appeal to work fine and efficiently, or to make it useful. The fact that companies uses it in their products is simply because it suits their needs better than the alternatives they have checked. He's doing some of the work on Debian; others work with different distributions. They get what they want. Users get what they want. Everyone's a winner. :) Maybe. But, when someone tries to sell stuff a lot, to have a big market share, then that guy must take a large target, which leads to systems which might become less stable or less efficient. And if that guy want to keep his market, then he'll have to avoid people escaping his stuff, this is why vendor locks exists. I could quote you Adam Smith on commerce and conspiracy - though I seriously doubt he ever meant there are no non-business conspiracies. He was smarter than that. But it'd be more pertinent to note that servers cost money to run and Debian (and the FSF) do a good job of not allowing any contributions in labour or money to control it's production or direction. To allow the former would be both foolish and ignore the nature of Free Open Source Software. I can't think of any distro that doesn't accept assistance from business. I never said that Debian, or whatever free software, should refuse contributions because the contributor is financially interested by the quality of the project. I simply said that big companies' input is not necessary (not that it's not useful), and I think I can argue that, AFAIK, either linux or debian, started without such inputs. If there is now that kind of input, it's good, but it's not because those projects wanted to seduce those big companies. Here's a good place to start your looking:- http://www.netbsd.org/contrib/org/ Kind regards Indeed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9d47fbbc3844c2457dce6e39459c2...@neutralite.org
Re: Debian policy on alternate init systems
Le 04.10.2014 12:51, Joel Rees a écrit : 2014/10/04 17:30 Curt : On 2014-10-03, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org [2] wrote: I like this one, because it makes me smile. I like pieces of softwares with play on words (this translation sounds strange... is it the correct one?) It's the correct one (jeu de mots). also known as pun. Oh, and apart from that, for people (if there are some here) which thinks that systemd's attempt to simplify daemon scripts is interesting, But as I pointed out long ago systemd itself is a play on words (le Système D). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_D [4] Ergo, calling themselves hackers. Donc, démerde-toi. ;-) Hmm. Should that be translated to English as So make do with yourself. or Manage yourself. or Hack yourself.? :-/ I don't know, it means something like: do what you can with what you have. Usually, you obviously have almost nothing. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d66c864558ac2aaa4e4a2aabfc8a8...@neutralite.org
Re: (Song) Fk SystemD
Le 04.10.2014 18:49, Tom Collins a écrit : Fuck Lennart Poettering. I have nothing against boys which love boys, but,should you really speak about that kind of preferences on an OS distribution user list? Those trolls on systemd are boring. You like it or not, won't change anything. Don't bore people. Act. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9c4839d12e9bc5251493034e66b55...@neutralite.org
Re: (Song) Fk SystemD
Le 06.10.2014 13:17, Gregory Smith a écrit : What is needed is inaction, Huh I'm not a systemd lover, you know, but what you just wrote is weird! Seriously, I have so many problems at work because people never even tries to make code more readable, more secured, because inaction is better. Systemd is excessive, yes. But inaction is never a good thing, no software is finished. There is always a way to enhance it, or to do things in a better way. Systemd tried, and convinced a lot of people (not me), so it was adopted by almost all distros, despite the problems it have. what there was before systemd was fine. Acting is the problem. Then, why not forking whatever was fine for you, and stop annoying people? Stop infringing the rules of this mailing list (because, I really doubt that insulting people is allowed)? You are enough systemd haters around to be able to maintain sysvinit, I don't doubt it. But, of course, it's easier to whine on a user list, annoying everyone which do not share your exact point of view, than acting yourself. With all mails on systemd's war, I am sure that there was enough time to do that, if people had actually acted. Oh... and, there *are* some people which acts. I do not like the systemd's direction, but I do think one of it's features is nice (the unit system). And I have discovered (maybe with a mail on this list? Or random searches? Not sure) that some people do act: there is uselessd, which is an alternative which removes lot of features of systemd, to go back to non-bloated software. There is also eudev, by gentoo, destined to replace udev. The same distro which produces openrc IIRC. See? There *are* alternatives (yes, I have seen some mails saying in title that there are no alternatives. I don't mind, I know it's wrong, because gentoo does not use systemd). So, stop whining, move! And if you want to stay on pure debian, I don't doubt people will be interested if someone packages those projects into Debian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/061c07c6a45a9534cf6cfcc4e80fa...@neutralite.org
Re: Enabling a second graphic card
Le 01.10.2014 16:39, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org a écrit : Hello. I have recently acquired 2 (identical, 4/3 shaped) screens, so I combined them with my current favorite screen on a computer which have 2 graphic cards, but it seems that Debian did not enabled the second card. I have tried it on a temporary Ubuntu install, and it works fine out of the box, so Debian must be able to use that 2nd card too. I tried to install a more recent kernel from backports on Debian just in case, but still no luck. Now that I'm thinking about it, I did not checked what Ubuntu uses as driver, so if it uses NVidia, this could be the reason, since I'm using nouveau on Debian. But I think that Ubuntu does not install proprietary blobs by default? I tried to find a xorg.conf in /etc on both system, no one had it. There is no Internet access from that computer, so packages are installed from the Ubuntu DVD I bought 2-3 months ago (14.04 IIRC) and from a Debian DVD set I have downloaded at work (7.5, DVDs 1 to 9 IIRC). Does anyone knows if nouveau is supports a configuration with 2 graphic cards, or do I have to install NVidia's drivers to do the job? Does someone have some links to documents which could explain how to enable that 2nd card? Note that I think the second card is disabled, because after doing quick searches in /sys, I discovered that what I suppose to be the second card directory have a file named enabled which contains 0. But I'm not expert at all when it comes to kernel stuff. Ok, I have installed nvidia, and let it write the xorg.conf file. Now, I hope I will be more able to tinker those files than when I went to Debian from Windows... Anyway, it seems that NVidia starts a second Xorg server for the second card (I enabled it through the graphic tool). That second server is not seen by the first one, so xrandr is not able to describe what I have plugged into it, thus i3 can't manage the extra screen. But at least, I have some progress, if I only need to learn xorg configuration's arcane, I should be able to achieve this step of my goal. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/ec9bb199bb7a29285b153ace48986...@neutralite.org
Re: Debian policy on alternate init systems
Le 02.10.2014 14:11, Marty a écrit : d-mobilize (inspiring) [...] Let me know which name you prefer. We have until the Jessie freeze to decide. Welcome to your compatible, interoperable systemd future. I like this one, because it makes me smile. I like pieces of softwares with play on words (this translation sounds strange... is it the correct one?) Oh, and apart from that, for people (if there are some here) which thinks that systemd's attempt to simplify daemon scripts is interesting, but that systemd is going too far in the bloatland, in short for people which are not haters nor lovers of systemd, there is an interesting fork of systemd: uselessd (http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/). I do not know if someone already pointed about it, I have not read all dumb threads with trolls and wars. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2328aff3d67000aafd68243c865e7...@neutralite.org
Re: Enabling a second graphic card
Le 01.10.2014 23:16, Floris a écrit : Op Wed, 01 Oct 2014 16:39:56 +0200 schreef berenger.mo...@neutralite.org: Hello. I have recently acquired 2 (identical, 4/3 shaped) screens, so I combined them with my current favorite screen on a computer which have 2 graphic cards, but it seems that Debian did not enabled the second card. I have tried it on a temporary Ubuntu install, and it works fine out of the box, so Debian must be able to use that 2nd card too. I tried to install a more recent kernel from backports on Debian just in case, but still no luck. Now that I'm thinking about it, I did not checked what Ubuntu uses as driver, so if it uses NVidia, this could be the reason, since I'm using nouveau on Debian. But I think that Ubuntu does not install proprietary blobs by default? I tried to find a xorg.conf in /etc on both system, no one had it. There is no Internet access from that computer, so packages are installed from the Ubuntu DVD I bought 2-3 months ago (14.04 IIRC) and from a Debian DVD set I have downloaded at work (7.5, DVDs 1 to 9 IIRC). Does anyone knows if nouveau is supports a configuration with 2 graphic cards, or do I have to install NVidia's drivers to do the job? Does someone have some links to documents which could explain how to enable that 2nd card? Note that I think the second card is disabled, because after doing quick searches in /sys, I discovered that what I suppose to be the second card directory have a file named enabled which contains 0. But I'm not expert at all when it comes to kernel stuff. An easy way is to install the nvidia drivers and use the nvidia-settings program to make modifications to your screen. An other solution is to use xrandr, but I haven't used it for a long time. success, floris Well, xrandr works very fine, with 2 screens on the same graphic card. My problem is that, it does not sees the second graphic card, and so it does not sees the screen connected on it. I still have not tried nvidia, hopefully it'll detect both cards. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/fb954cba79087163821bb6cacef68...@neutralite.org
Re: Enabling a second graphic card
Le 02.10.2014 03:11, Ric Moore a écrit : On 10/01/2014 10:39 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Does anyone knows if nouveau is supports a configuration with 2 graphic cards, or do I have to install NVidia's drivers to do the job? Does someone have some links to documents which could explain how to enable that 2nd card? I disabled my onboard video in the bios first, and installed two ~identical~ nVidia cards to the two PCIe slots that I have. To those I attached two monitors each. I installed the nvidia driver, and after a few minutes of diddling with Nvidia X Server Settings, all four are up and running as one continuous screen with no tearing or screen blips. I do not use nouveau. I still did not tried nvidia drivers. I might not have real choice... but I would like to try with nouveau :) If I really can't do what i wan't, I'll switch to nvidia, which will also allow me to run 3D games (nouveau's acceleration is not really efficient IIRC). Try playing warzone2100 or any of the other hires games spread across four monitors. Heheh, Death From Above! And yes, I can stretch a spreadsheet across all four at once. Or run separate apps in each. I love it. Ric I must admit that I don't really see the point of having 4 screens dedicated to a single game instance. But I'm quite used to dual screen, and I know I could not go back to mono-screen configuration, especially when programming. Mono screen is ok (I mean, to be really efficient) for people doing only web browsing, or video playing. For more serious work when you have to monitor multiple things and access various things across networks I just can't imagine how I would do without pain. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/140bcb89ea168ce60426baab05c69...@neutralite.org
Re: Enabling a second graphic card
Le 01.10.2014 18:51, Gábor Hársfalvi a écrit : Hi, Do you use SLI? If answer is yes - http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/guide-how-to-enable-use-and-configure-sli-on-linux.52953 [6] is the first thing, what you need. After that I had to use my /etc/default/grub with vmalloc=320 parameter. Good Luck! I do not use SLI, the cards does not have it (those are not very recent ones, GPU is 8400 GS IIRC). The reason why I have those two low-price cards is that at a time I thought that a hardware problem of my computer was because the only one that I had was dead. So I bought another one, but that was not the good dead component. But since I now have 3 screens (well, 4 in fact, but I don't have enough place on my desk to put the last one. Maybe I'll tinker some support with some pieces of wood...). Thanks for the reply anyway. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/f4152e9eea293dc89239aafdbc175...@neutralite.org
Re: Enabling a second graphic card
Le 01.10.2014 17:26, Sven Joachim a écrit : On 2014-10-01 16:39 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: I have recently acquired 2 (identical, 4/3 shaped) screens, so I combined them with my current favorite screen on a computer which have 2 graphic cards, but it seems that Debian did not enabled the second card. I have tried it on a temporary Ubuntu install, and it works fine out of the box, so Debian must be able to use that 2nd card too. I tried to install a more recent kernel from backports on Debian just in case, but still no luck. Now that I'm thinking about it, I did not checked what Ubuntu uses as driver, so if it uses NVidia, this could be the reason, since I'm using nouveau on Debian. But I think that Ubuntu does not install proprietary blobs by default? I tried to find a xorg.conf in /etc on both system, no one had it. There is no Internet access from that computer, so packages are installed from the Ubuntu DVD I bought 2-3 months ago (14.04 IIRC) and from a Debian DVD set I have downloaded at work (7.5, DVDs 1 to 9 IIRC). Obviously, Ubuntu 14.04 is quite a bit newer than Debian 7, so some things which work there might not be supported in Wheezy. Indeed, that's why I tried backported kernel (which is newer than Ubuntu's one)... Does anyone knows if nouveau is supports a configuration with 2 graphic cards, or do I have to install NVidia's drivers to do the job? Does someone have some links to documents which could explain how to enable that 2nd card? http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/MultiMonitorDesktop/ has some information. Yes, it seems that there is a configuration file to create, in order to handle multiple cards. And it have to use xinerama. I'll try it ASAP, and hopefully I'll be able to adapt it to the disk I'm making (I'm trying to configure a system to be able to run on various computers, since it is installed on an external USB harddisk. If if's a matter of enabling/disabling a configuration file at boot, that won't be hard.). Note that I think the second card is disabled, because after doing quick searches in /sys, I discovered that what I suppose to be the second card directory have a file named enabled which contains 0. But I'm not expert at all when it comes to kernel stuff. Me neither, but running dmesg | grep nouveau could be useful. Cheers, Sven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/b984eb90924f852d8370d4897f87b...@neutralite.org
Enabling a second graphic card
Hello. I have recently acquired 2 (identical, 4/3 shaped) screens, so I combined them with my current favorite screen on a computer which have 2 graphic cards, but it seems that Debian did not enabled the second card. I have tried it on a temporary Ubuntu install, and it works fine out of the box, so Debian must be able to use that 2nd card too. I tried to install a more recent kernel from backports on Debian just in case, but still no luck. Now that I'm thinking about it, I did not checked what Ubuntu uses as driver, so if it uses NVidia, this could be the reason, since I'm using nouveau on Debian. But I think that Ubuntu does not install proprietary blobs by default? I tried to find a xorg.conf in /etc on both system, no one had it. There is no Internet access from that computer, so packages are installed from the Ubuntu DVD I bought 2-3 months ago (14.04 IIRC) and from a Debian DVD set I have downloaded at work (7.5, DVDs 1 to 9 IIRC). Does anyone knows if nouveau is supports a configuration with 2 graphic cards, or do I have to install NVidia's drivers to do the job? Does someone have some links to documents which could explain how to enable that 2nd card? Note that I think the second card is disabled, because after doing quick searches in /sys, I discovered that what I suppose to be the second card directory have a file named enabled which contains 0. But I'm not expert at all when it comes to kernel stuff. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9088971367fb2386afceaf232d9eb...@neutralite.org
Re: systemd bug closed - next steps?
Le 22.09.2014 01:51, John Hasler a écrit : Martin Read writes: consolekit is indeed the thing that systemd-logind replaces (and systemd-logind was the reason the maintainers of consolekit stopped maintaining it). So who is going to step forward and start maintaining it? Nobody needs to. systemd-login does *not* depends on the init system. At no levels. So why should someone have to maintain an alternative? (well, there are probably tons of reasons, indeed, but systemd-login being a part of systemd is not a correct one since login part does not depends on init part.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/223ddf9bcfbbef1fdf7aa2741b827...@neutralite.org
Re: mysql command waiting endlessly (lenny)
Le 17.09.2014 18:09, Don Armstrong a écrit :
On Wed, 17 Sep 2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 17.09.2014 17:33, Don Armstrong a écrit :
In the future, these details would be helpful.
I have said in my first post:
but when it connect through the mysql program, there is no prompt.
Through the odbc program (isql), it works fine (we fill mysql's
parameters
with some greps of the odbc's configuration)
This doesn't say whether it was from the same machine, or how odbc
was
configured.
With hexdump (I must admit I did not used hexdump. Still not very
used
to that kind of stuff... and anyway I only wanted to know if yes or
no
the server actually can reply):
28 00 00 00 0a 33 2e 32 33 2e 34 39 00 5f 2e 03
|(3.23.49._..|
0010 00 7b 3c 57 23 43 6b 71 74 00 2c 20 08 02 00 00
|.{W#Ckqt.,
|
0020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
||
002c
That only tells you that the server can send packets to your local
machine. It doesn't indicate at all whether you can send to the
remote
machine.
Unfortunately, I does not have access to this remote machine. Which
does not help, but I am trying to determine if, yes or no, the
problem
come from the mysql server or from my mysql client.
Considering that we have the same situation on other LANs (I mean,
we
have a computer that I can access on other LANs where there is a
mysql
server that we can not administrate too) but the problem can not be
reproduced there. From what I have guessed through netcat and uname,
the LAN where that problem occur is the oldest: kernel 2.6.22 and
mysql server probably at version 3.23.49 (since netcat sends this
number when trying to connect). There is another LAN where the
kernel
is 2.6.26 and mysql server 3.23.58 (still according to nc and uname)
which is the second oldest, and there things works perfectly. I have
checked the mysql-client's version, and it's the same. Configuration
files relating to isql and mysql are also identical, except about
the
server's address, but I can't see how it could be the problem.
Talk to whoever administers the server, and have them check the logs.
And they should almost certainly upgrade mysql while they're at it.
Those versions have multiple known remote exploits.
Yes, I think I'll try to contact them. Not sure if they'll care or not,
but trying never hurts.
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Re: mysql command waiting endlessly (lenny)
Le 16.09.2014 19:46, Don Armstrong a écrit : On Tue, 16 Sep 2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: On a old lenny, we have a software which have to connect to a server of the same LAN (we do not have physical access to any stuff, and we can only connect through ssh to that client computer), but when it connect through the mysql program, there is no prompt. Through the odbc program (isql), it works fine (we fill mysql's parameters with some greps of the odbc's configuration). [...] Does someone have any idea about what could be the problem, and/or how to fix it? The request in TIME_WAIT is almost certainly not your problem. Run mysql under strace, and see precisely where it is failing to connect to the machine, then check your routing tables and firewall configuration. Thanks for the hints. From what I can understand, it seems that the client is waiting endlessly for a server's reply, which seems to never come. Strange that the server replies when isql is involved... and according to netstat, it really uses the same port. (1) Could it be possible that the server is configured to only accept odbc client? But in that case, why would it accept to establish the connection, making the client waiting endlessly? Anyway, it really seems that it's not a problem from our side... Hopefully I'll be able to find a solution to not maintain two versions of the same program because of that. Most likely, you've created a configuration where the machine in question is unable to access 3306. I do not think so, since the isql command (which uses odbc driver) works, and is configured to use port 3306. You can also telnet 10.6.0.3 3306; (or use nc) from the afflicted machine to see if it even connects to mysql at all. I already did some nc on the target: nc 10.6.0.3 -p 3306. It was how I guessed the mysql server's version. 1: Every 1,0s: netstat -np|grep 3306 Wed Sep 17 14:20:05 2014 tcp0 0 10.6.0.200:4362210.6.0.3:3306 TIME_WAIT - tcp0 0 10.6.0.200:4362110.6.0.3:3306 ESTABLISHED 21326/isql tcp0 0 10.6.0.200:4362010.6.0.3:3306 ESTABLISHED 21312/mysql -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/e0e548e91a9f162b281d6b0ae724e...@neutralite.org
Re: mysql command waiting endlessly (lenny)
Le 17.09.2014 17:33, Don Armstrong a écrit :
On Wed, 17 Sep 2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 16.09.2014 19:46, Don Armstrong a écrit :
Most likely, you've created a configuration where the machine in
question is unable to access 3306.
I do not think so, since the isql command (which uses odbc driver)
works, and is configured to use port 3306.
In the future, these details would be helpful.
I have said in my first post:
but when it connect through the mysql program, there is no prompt.
Through the odbc program (isql), it works fine (we fill mysql's
parameters with some greps of the odbc's configuration)
You can also telnet 10.6.0.3 3306; (or use nc) from the afflicted
machine to see if it even connects to mysql at all.
I already did some nc on the target: nc 10.6.0.3 -p 3306. It was how
I
guessed the mysql server's version.
If you are able to successfully use nc from the target machine, and
you
can talk to the server, and get a response from it, then it's
unlikely
to be the network. [You were able to run nc and get an echo back from
the server, right? You should see something like this:
$ echo asdf|nc localhost 3306|hexdump -C
54 00 00 00 0a 35 2e 35 2e 33 38 2d 30 2b 77 68
|T5.5.38-0+wh|
0010 65 65 7a 79 31 00 37 03 00 00 49 2e 45 54 55 30
|eezy1.7...I.ETU0|
0020 2c 2d 00 ff f7 08 02 00 0f 80 15 00 00 00 00 00
|,-..|
0030 00 00 00 00 00 3d 2a 57 5b 43 7b 62 58 75 62 6c
|.=*W[C{bXubl|
0040 77 00 6d 79 73 71 6c 5f 6e 61 74 69 76 65 5f 70
|w.mysql_native_p|
0050 61 73 73 77 6f 72 64 00 21 00 00 01 ff 84 04 23
|assword.!..#|
0060 30 38 53 30 31 47 6f 74 20 70 61 63 6b 65 74 73 |08S01Got
packets|
0070 20 6f 75 74 20 6f 66 20 6f 72 64 65 72 | out of
order|
007d
]
With hexdump (I must admit I did not used hexdump. Still not very used
to that kind of stuff... and anyway I only wanted to know if yes or no
the server actually can reply):
28 00 00 00 0a 33 2e 32 33 2e 34 39 00 5f 2e 03
|(3.23.49._..|
0010 00 7b 3c 57 23 43 6b 71 74 00 2c 20 08 02 00 00
|.{W#Ckqt., |
0020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
||
002c
1:
Every 1,0s: netstat -np|grep 3306
Wed Sep 17 14:20:05 2014
tcp0 0 10.6.0.200:4362210.6.0.3:3306
TIME_WAIT -
tcp0 0 10.6.0.200:4362110.6.0.3:3306
ESTABLISHED 21326/isql
tcp0 0 10.6.0.200:4362010.6.0.3:3306
ESTABLISHED 21312/mysql
This shows mysql has an established connection to the remote machine.
It
doesn't show at all what the remote machine is doing.
Have you examined the logs on the remote machine?
Unfortunately, I does not have access to this remote machine. Which
does not help, but I am trying to determine if, yes or no, the problem
come from the mysql server or from my mysql client.
Considering that we have the same situation on other LANs (I mean, we
have a computer that I can access on other LANs where there is a mysql
server that we can not administrate too) but the problem can not be
reproduced there.
From what I have guessed through netcat and uname, the LAN where that
problem occur is the oldest: kernel 2.6.22 and mysql server probably at
version 3.23.49 (since netcat sends this number when trying to connect).
There is another LAN where the kernel is 2.6.26 and mysql server 3.23.58
(still according to nc and uname) which is the second oldest, and there
things works perfectly. I have checked the mysql-client's version, and
it's the same. Configuration files relating to isql and mysql are also
identical, except about the server's address, but I can't see how it
could be the problem.
Thanks for help.
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mysql command waiting endlessly (lenny)
Hello. On a old lenny, we have a software which have to connect to a server of the same LAN (we do not have physical access to any stuff, and we can only connect through ssh to that client computer), but when it connect through the mysql program, there is no prompt. Through the odbc program (isql), it works fine (we fill mysql's parameters with some greps of the odbc's configuration). On other computers (on other LANs, those computers are in there to sniff packets and extract some informations to fill some of our DBs), the same setup works perfectly with both tools. In my tries to fix this problem, I have noticed that there is a connection in TIME_WAIT state, which does not have any parent process, and which never dies. I suspect that this is the cause of the mysql's problem, and I would like to try to manually close it, but can't figure how. I have found several informations across the web, but they does not work, the kernel is probably too old: 2.6.22. Other computers which works are at least running a 2.6.24. Another distinction between the problematic computer and those which works seems to be the mysql server's version: if I am now wrong (I guessed the numbers with a netcat connection), the server is also the oldest of our collection: 3.23.49, but I doubt it may be the cause: there is another box asking to a 3.23.58. Does someone have any idea about what could be the problem, and/or how to fix it? 1: # netstat -antp|grep TIME tcp0 0 10.6.0.200:5378610.6.0.3:3306 TIME_WAIT - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1d5052243b26c4464edf0945a0a5a...@neutralite.org
Re: Irony
Le 10.08.2014 19:08, Steve Litt a écrit : On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 10:51:30 +0400 Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:26:40 -0400 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: Within months of my switch, oops, here comes systemd. Consider switching to the Debian/kFreeBSD. It's the same Debian, yet there won't be no systemd in the foreseeable future. Reco Is Debian/kFreeBSD ready for prime time yet? Can you install all the same software as with regular Debian? Is there a network install for Debian/kFreeBSD? This might be a great alternative. I would have switched to FreeBSD years ago, except they are always changing their package manager, which often requires knowledge of an undocumented uri, and I've found that sometimes using both Ports and their package manager of the month can screw up the whole installation. But that's not an issue if I have the Debian package manager. Thanks for the info. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance Give it a try and you'll know. I will only say that, virtualbox is not supported as well as on Debian kLinux, so if you intend to run it on a virtual computer without having to tinker, it's probable that you should avoid virtualbox. Note that I did **not** had time to tinker enough, it's, for now, only a simple try that I gave. Oh, and if you go for virtualbox try, avoid the testing release of Debian, it was not able to achieve the installation here. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/134e04cb024abaa8529cfa2c78bce...@neutralite.org
