Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
Andrew Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 09:03:57PM +0200, Felix Natter wrote: It seems like it will be better and surely safer than Outlook, Why better and, most particularly, why safer? Given that GNOME is built to allow components to interact with one another via scripting, there is no reason to suppose that the same problems faced by MS Office could not find their way into a GNOME environment. Once you start building tools to make their interaction apparently seamless, you face the possibility that someone is going to exploit that seamlessness. There is nothing magical about Free software that makes it immune to those problems. 1. If you install the program often (as in a company for example), you can customize it to turn off some features without the user having the ability to decide. 2. I have heard about many security-problem using Outlook/IE. With open-source, there is no point in hiding information about potential weaknesses of the software, there is no pressure to introduce new features in the stable version (which should lead to more stable releases) and bugs can be fixed more quickly. -- Felix Natter
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
Hans [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 12:03 PM 7/28/00 -0400, Ethan Pierce wrote: Hi, I was reading today on slashdot about Evolution 0.3. They have a download link for the tar.gz file. I was wondering if the apt-get utility will work if I use the spidermonkey.helixgnome.com source for the update? Has anyone else tried this? Thanks -Ethan -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null I don't want to start a war here, but what's so great about Evolution? It looks more like a regression to me. It imitates M$ in more than one way: it looks like it, has the same bloat factor and packs way to many features in a single frame. Where is the innovation? I switched from KDE to Gnome because I saw smarter programs being developed by the Gnome team, but after seeing Gnumeric and now this Evolution I start to doubt. I don't think that Evolution is targeted towards experienced users. I think the purpose of it is to get some Windows-users to switch to linux, and to provide an MS-exchange server. It seems like it will be better and surely safer than Outlook, so there is much reason for windows-users to switch to linux/GNOME. It would be great if evolution could use for example the GIMP ui (many windows), but in that case it might not succeed in providing an easy replacement for Outlook. afaik there are other programs for experienced users (balsa ?, (x)emacs with VM/Gnus ...). -- Felix Natter
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 09:03:57PM +0200, Felix Natter wrote: It seems like it will be better and surely safer than Outlook, Why better and, most particularly, why safer? Given that GNOME is built to allow components to interact with one another via scripting, there is no reason to suppose that the same problems faced by MS Office could not find their way into a GNOME environment. Once you start building tools to make their interaction apparently seamless, you face the possibility that someone is going to exploit that seamlessness. There is nothing magical about Free software that makes it immune to those problems. A -- Andrew Sullivan Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED]Burlington Public Library +1 905 639 3611 x158 2331 New Street Burlington, Ontario, Canada L7R 1J4
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
Hi, I was reading today on slashdot about Evolution 0.3. They have a download link for the tar.gz file. I was wondering if the apt-get utility will work if I use the spidermonkey.helixgnome.com source for the update? Has anyone else tried this? No, this won't work. You can (or could), however, add a line to /etc/apt/sources.list: deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/evolution/distributions/Debian ./ so just do: su; echo deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/evolution/distributions/Debian ./ /etc/apt/sources.list; apt-get update; apt-get install evolution and maybe apt-get upgrade as well in case the dependancies don't reflect new versions of stuff. I don't think that Evolution is targeted towards experienced users. I think the purpose of it is to get some Windows-users to switch to linux, and to provide an MS-exchange server. It seems like it will be better and surely safer than Outlook, so there is much reason for windows-users to switch to linux/GNOME. It would be great if evolution could use for example the GIMP ui (many windows), but in that case it might not succeed in providing an easy replacement for Outlook. I think that i agree, kinda. Perhaps not on the safe part (i agree with the later mail on that subject) but i do believe evolution is geared toward people migrating. My hope is that it will first be better implimented (and safer) and then be developed to accomodate advanced users as well and fit different UI tastes. afaik there are other programs for experienced users (balsa ?, (x)emacs with VM/Gnus ...). Spruce is an extremely good mail client when it comes to the smarter programs that we look for in GNOME and GTK apps. It could use some work, but has come extremely far and I currently use it for all of my email needs. The latest stable version, 0.6.5, is not in the debian archive for some reason, but can be found on my webserver at: http://silverchair.futureks.net/~solomon/spruce_0.6.5-1_i386.deb (packaged on woody) I'm just about to try Pronto, which just appeard in woody. From the description, it looks very cool. I'm excited :D -- Jared Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Xanadu did Kubla Khan A stately pleasure dome decree: Where Alph, the sacred river, ran Through caverns measureless to man Down to a sunless sea. So twice five miles of fertile ground With walls and towers were girdled round: And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills, Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree; And here were forest ancient as the hills, Enfolding sunny spots of greenery. -- S.T. Coleridge, Kubla Kahn -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GCS/C d+(-)-- s:+ a18 C$ UL$ P+ L+++ E--- W+ N+ o? K- w--- !O M-- V-- !PS !PE Y PGP- t+ 5-- X R-- tv- b+ DI+ !D G e++(+++) h-- r* y-(+++) --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
** On Jul 29, Ethan Pierce scribbled: The main reason I am psyched for evolution is my girlfriend cant grasp pine or mail. She needs something graphical. If I can avoid booting windows2000 so she can read her email in outlook I will be happy as a clam...hence evolution is the perfect solution for the ms llamas :) And this is a perfect reasong for Evolution existence :-)), and a confirmation of what I wrote before. But, wrt. graphical clients - there are more than just Evolution - Netscape Communicator, balsa (also a GNOME app), heck - even the (X)Emacs VM can be considered graphical if used with XEmacs :)) and probably many more I haven't heard of :) marek don't forget mh (or nmh) and exim -ptw
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
** On Jul 29, Hans scribbled: At 12:03 PM 7/28/00 -0400, Ethan Pierce wrote: Hi, I was reading today on slashdot about Evolution 0.3. They have a download link for the tar.gz file. I was wondering if the apt-get utility will work if I use the spidermonkey.helixgnome.com source for the update? Has anyone else tried this? Thanks -Ethan -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null I don't want to start a war here, but what's so great about Evolution? It looks more like a regression to me. It imitates M$ in more than one way: it looks like it, has the same bloat factor and packs way to many features in a single frame. Where is the innovation? I switched from KDE to Gnome because I saw smarter programs being developed by the Gnome team, but after seeing Gnumeric and now this Evolution I start to doubt. Nobody forces you to use Evolution. The advantage of such software is that it provides a functionally and visually equivalent to proprietary software while being 100% free. I suppose that advantage is obvious. You can look at it as on a marketing/support factor. If any of your customers would come to you and say hm... I would switch to Linux, but I kinda like the M$ Outlook. If Linux had something like that Now you will be able to say Voila! Evolution - right here for you! :-). Besides, the product will no doubt be dozens of times more secure than any of the M$ incarnations of Outlook. There was an awful flamewar some time ago on debian-devel/debian-project regarding non-free software. One of the arguments of one of the sides was that as long as we cannot provide the users with 100% free equivalents to the proprietary/non-free software we cannot remove the non-free section from Debian. Well, Evolution is one (big) step towards the goal of having only free software in your machine. That said, I will only state that I won't use Evolution for my own mail, since I prefer other MUAs, but I find Evolution a great thing to have in our (read: the free community) software pool :-) marek pgpdJ4bcDwsnv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marek Habersack) writes: it as on a marketing/support factor. If any of your customers would come to you and say hm... I would switch to Linux, but I kinda like the M$ Outlook. If Linux had something like that Now you will be able to say Voila! Evolution - right here for you! :-). Besides, the product will no doubt be dozens of times more secure than any of the M$ incarnations of Outlook. When my department switched to Linux (CorelLinux w/ KDE), our intent was to provide a familiar UI for the designated Ex-Windows users. (We purged that perverted slink stuff quickly in favor of woody w/ Gnome for technical reasons. And KDE can't handle 800x600 in a way that would make us happy.) The user fraction on their side were also seriously disappointed from Linux Windows... because they have to mount removables now: But you have to admit that Windows is easier to use, repeated by two dozen people every once a while we show up. I guess it's psychologically important for the man on the keyboard not only to use SW that makes a difference on the system level but visualize the difference on the GUI level. This helps not to confuse apples and pears, and also won't force us to compete with MS's featuritis. My 0,02 EUR Andre --- He who sacrifices functionality for ease of use Loses both and deserves neither
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
** On Jul 29, Andre Berger scribbled: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marek Habersack) writes: it as on a marketing/support factor. If any of your customers would come to you and say hm... I would switch to Linux, but I kinda like the M$ Outlook. If Linux had something like that Now you will be able to say Voila! Evolution - right here for you! :-). Besides, the product will no doubt be dozens of times more secure than any of the M$ incarnations of Outlook. When my department switched to Linux (CorelLinux w/ KDE), our intent was to provide a familiar UI for the designated Ex-Windows users. (We purged that perverted slink stuff quickly in favor of woody w/ Gnome for technical reasons. And KDE can't handle 800x600 in a way that would make us happy.) The user fraction on their side were also seriously disappointed from Linux Windows... because they have to mount removables now: But you have to admit that Windows is easier to use, repeated by two dozen people every once a while we show up. I guess it's psychologically important for the man on the keyboard not only to use SW that makes a difference on the system level but visualize the difference on the GUI level. This helps not to confuse apples and pears, and also won't force us to compete with MS's featuritis. I agree with you 100% - and Evolution as well as any other GNOME software makes exactly that difference - the UI has different appearance, so that one can immediately tell what is being used. My point wasn't that the software must/should be a GPL-ed mirror of the other software, no - my point is that the transition curve for the newcomer to the Linux OSes should be minimized by providing the most common features/screen layout _by default_ in the software s/he is to use. You cannot and should not force anyone to learn anything completely new when he is just a mere user, not programmer, developer or die-hard hacker, whatever. I don't know whether you have ever had anything to do with support services but if you would, then you'd know how hard it is to persuade common users of software to using anything else they familiar with. And that's the whole point I want to make - they want software which is similar enough to what they have used before for them not to spend weeks in learning everything anew. marek pgpkt5XWv9ze9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
The main reason I am psyched for evolution is my girlfriend cant grasp pine or mail. She needs something graphical. If I can avoid booting windows2000 so she can read her email in outlook I will be happy as a clam...hence evolution is the perfect solution for the ms llamas :) - Original Message - From: Marek Habersack [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 4:34 AM Subject: Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
** On Jul 29, Ethan Pierce scribbled: The main reason I am psyched for evolution is my girlfriend cant grasp pine or mail. She needs something graphical. If I can avoid booting windows2000 so she can read her email in outlook I will be happy as a clam...hence evolution is the perfect solution for the ms llamas :) And this is a perfect reasong for Evolution existence :-)), and a confirmation of what I wrote before. But, wrt. graphical clients - there are more than just Evolution - Netscape Communicator, balsa (also a GNOME app), heck - even the (X)Emacs VM can be considered graphical if used with XEmacs :)) and probably many more I haven't heard of :) marek pgpFk8rv9HLTH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
Hi, I was reading today on slashdot about Evolution 0.3. They have a download link for the tar.gz file. I was wondering if the apt-get utility will work if I use the spidermonkey.helixgnome.com source for the update? Has anyone else tried this? Thanks -Ethan
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
Sorry, I found the answer to my question. Evolution .3 is a Microsoft Outlook replacement for linux. To get it via apt-get add the following to sources.list deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/evolution/distributions/Debian run - apt-get update - apt-get install evolution Enjoy - this looks promising and a great start to getting MS outta the office! Ethan Pierce [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/28/00 12:00PM Hi, I was reading today on slashdot about Evolution 0.3. They have a download link for the tar.gz file. I was wondering if the apt-get utility will work if I use the spidermonkey.helixgnome.com source for the update? Has anyone else tried this? Thanks -Ethan -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
Ethan Pierce wrote: Sorry, I found the answer to my question. Evolution .3 is a Microsoft Outlook replacement for linux. To get it via apt-get add the following to sources.list deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/evolution/distributions/Debian run - apt-get update - apt-get install evolution Enjoy - this looks promising and a great start to getting MS outta the office! Nope; apt-get update reports a mal-formed line.
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
Sorry all, the sources.list line should read: deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/evolution/distributions/Debian/ ./ Kent West [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/28/00 12:15PM Ethan Pierce wrote: Sorry, I found the answer to my question. Evolution .3 is a Microsoft Outlook replacement for linux. To get it via apt-get add the following to sources.list deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/evolution/distributions/Debian run - apt-get update - apt-get install evolution Enjoy - this looks promising and a great start to getting MS outta the office! Nope; apt-get update reports a mal-formed line.
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far way, someone said... Hi, I was reading today on slashdot about Evolution 0.3. They have a download link for the tar.gz file. I was wondering if the apt-get utility will work if I use the spidermonkey.helixgnome.com source for the update? Has anyone else tried this? The line for sources.list is deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/evolution/distributions/Debian/ ./ After that do your usual 'apt-get update' and 'apt-get install evolution'. -- -- Phil Brutsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two things that are infinite; Human stupidity and the universe. And I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstien
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
Ethan Pierce wrote: Sorry all, the sources.list line should read: deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/evolution/distributions/Debian/ ./ I thought the . in ./ was a typo, so I didn't include it. I got a bunch of dependency errors. So I went back and added the . and tried again; still got dependency errors. Oh well, guess I'll wait a while to give 'er a spin Thanks anyway!
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
** On Jul 28, Kent West scribbled: Ethan Pierce wrote: Sorry all, the sources.list line should read: deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/evolution/distributions/Debian/ ./ I thought the . in ./ was a typo, so I didn't include it. I got a bunch of dependency errors. So I went back and added the . and tried again; still got dependency errors. Oh well, guess I'll wait a while to give 'er a spin Try including the following line in addition to the above: deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/distributions/debian unstable main it should work just fine now marek pgp8fvNWh5EDW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Helix Gnome Evolution 0.3
At 12:03 PM 7/28/00 -0400, Ethan Pierce wrote: Hi, I was reading today on slashdot about Evolution 0.3. They have a download link for the tar.gz file. I was wondering if the apt-get utility will work if I use the spidermonkey.helixgnome.com source for the update? Has anyone else tried this? Thanks -Ethan -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null I don't want to start a war here, but what's so great about Evolution? It looks more like a regression to me. It imitates M$ in more than one way: it looks like it, has the same bloat factor and packs way to many features in a single frame. Where is the innovation? I switched from KDE to Gnome because I saw smarter programs being developed by the Gnome team, but after seeing Gnumeric and now this Evolution I start to doubt. Hans --- It's nice to be like, but better by far to get paid -- Liz Phair
