Re: How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
On Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:12:20 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote: On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 02:48:11PM +, Camaleón wrote: With my admin's hat on, I prefer the old and well-know sysvinit because I don't need anything special for the booting process but I understand that people with specific requirements (or those called early adopters) are awaiting for a change. If you had a maintainer's hat to put on, then you most likely would have a different opinion. I'm not a maintainer, but from what I've read and AFAIU, its not an admin issue. (...) Exactly. And given that I wear my admin hat (I'm not a developer nor software packager) what worries me is having my systems up and running, and most important, knowing the ways for having my systems up and running without needing to read a new init manual every 2/3 years. That's why neither systemd nor upstart are (at least for now) my business. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/k1t7h4$ko4$6...@ger.gmane.org
Re: OT: How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:09 AM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 11:35 -0400, Tom H wrote: I've been following the systemd threads on the Arch mailing lists since you pointed to them. What I find interesting is that, on the users' list, people are still hyper-ventilating about systemd and Lennart Poettering and on the developers' list a decision's been made to install systemd by default (not default to systemd; not yet anyway). Nuts! :) For Arch it's a different situation than it's for Debian. Arch is, resp. was a rolling release. Switching to systemd stops the rolling. This might explain the intensity of the flame war. You should take a look at the debian-devel systemd threads. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=sxkhxbtwmza-qrsjrfc3v2+9l761vqqf4do3o7jjb1...@mail.gmail.com
Re: How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 02:48:11PM +, Camaleón wrote: With my admin's hat on, I prefer the old and well-know sysvinit because I don't need anything special for the booting process but I understand that people with specific requirements (or those called early adopters) are awaiting for a change. If you had a maintainer's hat to put on, then you most likely would have a different opinion. I'm not a maintainer, but from what I've read and AFAIU, its not an admin issue. There are well known problems with the sysvinit system where copious amounts of sticky plaster (band aid?) code is needed to help deal with them. So it is not just people with specific requirements or early adopters which see the need for a better more robust system. systemd and upstart go a long way in fixing the problems, but in there own way introduce some undersirable features. Systemd is a bit too monolithic and hence doesn't fit into the Unix philosophy. Upstart may be a replacement: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/09/msg3.html (a lot of things can change in three years, though) There are also some people looking at openrc: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/openrc/ as a possible replacement, There is file-rc, but AIUI, it too, has some undesirable aspects. A google search should/will/maybe be a bit more enlightening. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120831221220.GC12794@tal
OT: How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 11:35 -0400, Tom H wrote: I've been following the systemd threads on the Arch mailing lists since you pointed to them. What I find interesting is that, on the users' list, people are still hyper-ventilating about systemd and Lennart Poettering and on the developers' list a decision's been made to install systemd by default (not default to systemd; not yet anyway). Nuts! :) For Arch it's a different situation than it's for Debian. Arch is, resp. was a rolling release. Switching to systemd stops the rolling. This might explain the intensity of the flame war. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1346314198.1281.11.camel@localhost.localdomain
How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
Dear list,
I have gone through some online docs on ubuntu derived upstar-job mechanism and
its simplicity has drawn my attention. Same time the apparent incompatibility
with
sysv-init is also there. Has anyone is using that in running debian system. How
does it
work ? Does it need to rewrite all /etc/init.d/${scripts} ?
Thanks
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Re: How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 12:27 +0530, baksh...@gmail.com wrote:
Dear list,
I have gone through some online docs on ubuntu derived upstar-job mechanism
and
its simplicity has drawn my attention. Same time the apparent incompatibility
with
sysv-init is also there. Has anyone is using that in running debian system.
How does it
work ? Does it need to rewrite all /etc/init.d/${scripts} ?
Thanks
Half-OT: A note for GNOME users :)
If you're a GNOME user, be aware that upstream plans to make a hard
dependency to systemd. I wonder how Debian and Ubuntu will manage this.
I suspect systemd soon or later will will come. I don't welcome this
step, but I guess it will happen. As the case may be, it doesn't make
sense, at least for GNOME users, to learn how to use upstart.
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2011-May/msg00427.html
There's a flame war regarding to systemd on Arch General Mailing List.
Unfortunately it's not fun to read it, but sometimes I read it and
between all that flame there's useful information.
http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2012-August/date.html
Regards,
Ralf
PS: I won't discuss this, I only want to share this information ;).
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Re: How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 12:27:20 +0530, bakshi12 wrote:
I have gone through some online docs on ubuntu derived upstar-job
mechanism and its simplicity has drawn my attention. Same time the
apparent incompatibility with sysv-init is also there. Has anyone is
using that in running debian system. How does it work ? Does it need to
rewrite all /etc/init.d/${scripts} ?
IIRC, years ago it was suggested that Debian was going to jump to
upstart¹ as the default booting mechanism but then systemd started to
gain more popularity as a replacement for system v.
With my admin's hat on, I prefer the old and well-know sysvinit because I
don't need anything special for the booting process but I understand that
people with specific requirements (or those called early adopters) are
awaiting for a change.
That said, I'm completetely unaware about the current status for upstart/
systemd in Debian, but according to the above mailing list/announce post
and the wiki², both systems should be already available and operative.
¹http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/09/msg3.html
²http://wiki.debian.org/systemd
Greetings,
--
Camaleón
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Re: How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Ralf Mardorf
ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 12:27 +0530, baksh...@gmail.com wrote:
I have gone through some online docs on ubuntu derived upstar-job mechanism
and
its simplicity has drawn my attention. Same time the apparent
incompatibility with
sysv-init is also there. Has anyone is using that in running debian system.
How does it
work ? Does it need to rewrite all /etc/init.d/${scripts} ?
Half-OT: A note for GNOME users :)
If you're a GNOME user, be aware that upstream plans to make a hard
dependency to systemd. I wonder how Debian and Ubuntu will manage this.
I suspect systemd soon or later will will come. I don't welcome this
step, but I guess it will happen. As the case may be, it doesn't make
sense, at least for GNOME users, to learn how to use upstart.
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2011-May/msg00427.html
There's a flame war regarding to systemd on Arch General Mailing List.
Unfortunately it's not fun to read it, but sometimes I read it and
between all that flame there's useful information.
http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2012-August/date.html
If Ubuntu's sticking to upstart (pretty much a certainty), they'll
figure out a way to run upstart and GNOME; and run consolekit and udev
without systemd. Debian'll have to do the same if it chooses to
default to upstart (very unlikely, but you never know...)
From a sysadmin point of view, unless you want to write upstart jobs,
there nothing much to learn. You can use sysvinit's service daemon
{stop|start|restart} - or upstart's {stop|start|restart} daemon.
I've been following the systemd threads on the Arch mailing lists
since you pointed to them. What I find interesting is that, on the
users' list, people are still hyper-ventilating about systemd and
Lennart Poettering and on the developers' list a decision's been made
to install systemd by default (not default to systemd; not yet
anyway). Nuts! :)
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Re: How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
Am Mittwoch, 29. August 2012 schrieb Camaleón:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 12:27:20 +0530, bakshi12 wrote:
I have gone through some online docs on ubuntu derived upstar-job
mechanism and its simplicity has drawn my attention. Same time the
apparent incompatibility with sysv-init is also there. Has anyone is
using that in running debian system. How does it work ? Does it need
to rewrite all /etc/init.d/${scripts} ?
IIRC, years ago it was suggested that Debian was going to jump to
upstart¹ as the default booting mechanism but then systemd started to
gain more popularity as a replacement for system v.
With my admin's hat on, I prefer the old and well-know sysvinit because
I don't need anything special for the booting process but I understand
that people with specific requirements (or those called early
adopters) are awaiting for a change.
That said, I'm completetely unaware about the current status for
upstart/ systemd in Debian, but according to the above mailing
list/announce post and the wiki², both systems should be already
available and operative.
¹http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/09/msg3.html
²http://wiki.debian.org/systemd
Systemd definately works on this ThinkPad T520, a ThinkPad T23, a T42
and a FTS Esprimo workstation with Debian Sid.
I especially love that:
martin@merkaba:~ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 3857ms (kernel) + 2531ms (userspace) = 6389ms
Systemd can also tell for each service how long it takes for startup.
And that:
martin@merkaba:~ systemctl status ssh.service
ssh.service - LSB: OpenBSD Secure Shell server
Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/ssh)
Active: active (running) since Tue, 28 Aug 2012 22:18:02 +0200; 21h
ago
Process: 1313 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/ssh start (code=exited,
status=0/SUCCESS)
CGroup: name=systemd:/system/ssh.service
└ 1394 /usr/sbin/sshd
Aug 29 10:33:49 merkaba sshd[31682]: Accepted publickey for ms from […] port
39674 ssh2
Aug 29 14:33:03 merkaba sshd[22933]: Accepted publickey for ms from […] port
57103 ssh2
Aug 29 14:33:03 merkaba sshd[22933]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session opened for
user ms by (uid=0)
Aug 29 15:37:11 merkaba sshd[1322]: Accepted publickey for ms from […] port
57105 ssh2
Aug 29 15:38:09 merkaba sshd[1370]: Accepted publickey for ms from […] port
57106 ssh2
Aug 29 15:38:09 merkaba sshd[1370]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session opened for
user ms by (uid=0)
Still most services are started by init scripts, such as SSH in above example.
That CGroup tracking works also with child processes, so I can know at
once the processes that long to a certain service.
I am quite vary about Pulseaudio, but I do like systemd ;)
Thanks,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
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Re: How upstart-job is performing in debian system ?
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:35:20 -0400
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
snip
From a sysadmin point of view, unless you want to write upstart jobs,
there nothing much to learn. You can use sysvinit's service daemon
{stop|start|restart} - or upstart's {stop|start|restart} daemon.
/snip
I have found that upstart is helpful for event driven situation.
Like dnscrypt should run only when the net connection is present.
Through conventional sysvinit I am suffering to create a proper
init script to do the checking.
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