Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Brian]

On Sun 02 Apr 2017 at 01:56:22 +1300, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 07:13:26PM +, Brian wrote:
> > Apropos nothing. Columbus knew exactly where he was going and why. He
> > just didn't get there. The exact route he took didn't exist (or maybe
> > philosohically it did but hadn't been travelled). But it was planned
> > using the Google documentation of the time. Perhaps prospective
> > Debian users could plan their journey into the unknown in the same way.
> > 
> > Point taken, though. Web page design requires the author to put herself
> > (or try to) in the position of a typical user.
> > 
> > A good place to mention the firmware netinst ISO would be the Debian
> > front page instead of 4 or more layers down. Depends on how much of a
> > problem it is seen to be. Don't hold your breath waiting for a change;
> > there are other factors.
> 
> Yeah, for some reason I too had problems navigating to the netinst image and
> It was just the plain vanila image without the firmware.

There is a prominent link on the front page to the netinst ISO. If this
is unseeable or unfindable you will have problems finding the unofficial
images.

> I ended up going to the wrong page about 3 times from different attempts, but
> as Steve has already mentioned, there is a bug open about this.

You are referring to #819664? Perhaps you would explain how this helps
with locating unofficial images? It might help for finding official ones
(which for "some reason" you were unable to spot on www.debian.org) and
that is good.

> So I agree, Mr Steve Wright is ... correct.
> 
> Also downloading the installation manual to find out how to navigate to the
> download page sounds like something from Monty Python.

That is a misrepresention of the issue. No one is claiming that the
Manual is the way to find official images.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 01 April 2017 19:55:22 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 04/01/2017 06:08 AM, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 06:47:06AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> >> On 03/14/2017 09:57 PM, Dean Valentine wrote:
> >>> I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
> >>> Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and
> >>> using my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on
> >>> lspci, but when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it
> >>> fails and tells me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use
> >>> the ISO you've provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into
> >>> it here: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but
> >>> that couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I
> >>> think I see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
> >>>
> >>> What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
> >>> drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not
> >>> in Debian's isos for some reason.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for your time. I love your work.
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> You didn't read that page.
> >
> > I wonder what page that would be.
>
> The above link.
>
> > Here's the link you want:
> >> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firm
> >>ware/
> >
> > I was wondering what a field engineer is, is it a fancy term for a
> > farmer?
>
> I'm on the list, reply to the list.
> Ask a proper question and get a proper answer.
> Google is your friend.

Or try wikipedia,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineer
(I looked up "field engineer")

Lisi

> Stupid Is As Stupid Does - Forrest Gump.

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Jimmy Johnson]

On 04/01/2017 06:08 AM, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 06:47:06AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:

On 03/14/2017 09:57 PM, Dean Valentine wrote:

I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and using
my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on lspci, but
when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and tells
me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but that couldn't
find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I think I see) my
drivers listed, and when i select them manually

What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not in
Debian's isos for some reason.

Thank you for your time. I love your work.


Hi,

You didn't read that page.



I wonder what page that would be.


The above link.


Here's the link you want:

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/



I was wondering what a field engineer is, is it a fancy term for a farmer?


I'm on the list, reply to the list.
Ask a proper question and get a proper answer.
Google is your friend.
Stupid Is As Stupid Does - Forrest Gump.
--
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Stretch - Plasma 5.8.6 - EXT4 at sda11
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[David Wright]

On Sun 02 Apr 2017 at 01:56:22 (+1300), cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 07:13:26PM +, Brian wrote:
> > Apropos nothing. Columbus knew exactly where he was going and why. He
> > just didn't get there. The exact route he took didn't exist (or maybe
> > philosohically it did but hadn't been travelled). But it was planned
> > using the Google documentation of the time. Perhaps prospective
> > Debian users could plan their journey into the unknown in the same way.
> > 
> > Point taken, though. Web page design requires the author to put herself
> > (or try to) in the position of a typical user.
> > 
> > A good place to mention the firmware netinst ISO would be the Debian
> > front page instead of 4 or more layers down. Depends on how much of a
> > problem it is seen to be. Don't hold your breath waiting for a change;
> > there are other factors.
> 
> Yeah, for some reason I too had problems navigating to the netinst image and
> It was just the plain vanila image without the firmware.
> 
> I ended up going to the wrong page about 3 times from different attempts, but
> as Steve has already mentioned, there is a bug open about this.
> 
> So I agree, Mr Steve Wright is ... correct.

Of course I am...always. Buy my book:

Steve Wright's Book of Factoids, HarperCollins Publishers (UK), (2005)
ISBN 0-00-720660-7

> Also downloading the installation manual to find out how to navigate to the
> download page sounds like something from Monty Python.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[cbannister]

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 07:13:26PM +, Brian wrote:
> Apropos nothing. Columbus knew exactly where he was going and why. He
> just didn't get there. The exact route he took didn't exist (or maybe
> philosohically it did but hadn't been travelled). But it was planned
> using the Google documentation of the time. Perhaps prospective
> Debian users could plan their journey into the unknown in the same way.
> 
> Point taken, though. Web page design requires the author to put herself
> (or try to) in the position of a typical user.
> 
> A good place to mention the firmware netinst ISO would be the Debian
> front page instead of 4 or more layers down. Depends on how much of a
> problem it is seen to be. Don't hold your breath waiting for a change;
> there are other factors.

Yeah, for some reason I too had problems navigating to the netinst image and
It was just the plain vanila image without the firmware.

I ended up going to the wrong page about 3 times from different attempts, but
as Steve has already mentioned, there is a bug open about this.

So I agree, Mr Steve Wright is ... correct.

Also downloading the installation manual to find out how to navigate to the
download page sounds like something from Monty Python.

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Brian]

On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 17:02:04 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Thursday 16 March 2017 20:08:16 Brian wrote:
> > and we are told
> > it is not the purpose of this list to answer practical problems by
> > by guiding people to it. :)
> 
> Oh, come Brian.  We are also told that it is not the purpose of Debian to 
> pander to freaks and Geeks.  We are told that the moon is made of green 
> cheese and the earth is flat.  Oh, and young ladies don't do that.  We are 
> not going to worry about what we are told, are we?

When it comes to the desirability of reading documentation on such a
basic and important procedure as installing Debian I'm inclined not to
be ambivalant. That doesn't mean I think every single word of it needs
to be understood but preparation underpins an install which is
successful. Otherwise, why put so much effort into writing the Manual?

You cut some of the paragraph I wrote. Its main intended purpose was to
point the OP to a solution to his issue, If he is still reading the
thread he started he might say whether it does. It could help others.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Brian]

On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 10:46:57 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 20:08:16 (+), Brian wrote:
> > 
> > There was never had any reason to disagree with the analysis. The
> > queries starting this subthread
> > 
> >  > Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to?
> > 
> > have the answers "no" and "yes". However, the routes to the images are
> > varied and guessing which one a user takes to get there isn't fruitful.
> 
> The routes exist and don't need to be guessed. The reason that a
> particular group of users follows a route is what has to be guessed.

Apropos nothing. Columbus knew exactly where he was going and why. He
just didn't get there. The exact route he took didn't exist (or maybe
philosohically it did but hadn't been travelled). But it was planned
using the Google documentation of the time. Perhaps prospective
Debian users could plan their journey into the unknown in the same way.

Point taken, though. Web page design requires the author to put herself
(or try to) in the position of a typical user.

A good place to mention the firmware netinst ISO would be the Debian
front page instead of 4 or more layers down. Depends on how much of a
problem it is seen to be. Don't hold your breath waiting for a change;
there are other factors.

> For every selection made/link clicked etc, the user had an intention.
> That intention has to be guessed by the web designer/programmer etc.
> Few designers actually experience a stream of tyros sitting down to
> use their design, and give them reasons.
> 
> Similarly, documentation authors must have in-depth knowledge of
> their subject, but also have the ability to read the mind of the
> ignorant reader.

A decent technique which can be fruitful with documentation writing is
to read what you have written a year later. If you still understand it
and can easily follow any instructions it could stand the test of time.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 16 March 2017 20:08:16 Brian wrote:
> and we are told
> it is not the purpose of this list to answer practical problems by
> by guiding people to it. :)

Oh, come Brian.  We are also told that it is not the purpose of Debian to 
pander to freaks and Geeks.  We are told that the moon is made of green 
cheese and the earth is flat.  Oh, and young ladies don't do that.  We are 
not going to worry about what we are told, are we?

Lisi

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[David Wright]

On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 20:08:16 (+), Brian wrote:
> On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 12:04:14 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 14:05:17 (+0100), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 12:52:00PM +, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> > > > Brian:
> > > > 
> > > > > Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
> > > > > co-operation of the user.
> > > 
> > > :-)
> > > 
> > > > To recapitulate, the purpose of the list as I understand it is not to
> > > > answer practical problems with "read the manual".  It defeats the 
> > > > purpose.
> > > 
> > > I think you're being a bit unfair here. Brian has surely done a bit
> > > beyond saying "read the manual". He has provided leads to the relevant
> > > spots in there.
> > 
> > He showed a much better path to the important web page
> > http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
> > He hasn't disagreed with my analysis of why people can get
> > stuck on another pathway to the ISO files on that page,
> > particularly the people desiring a network installation.
> 
> There was never had any reason to disagree with the analysis. The
> queries starting this subthread
> 
>  > Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to?
> 
> have the answers "no" and "yes". However, the routes to the images are
> varied and guessing which one a user takes to get there isn't fruitful.

The routes exist and don't need to be guessed. The reason that a
particular group of users follows a route is what has to be guessed.
For every selection made/link clicked etc, the user had an intention.
That intention has to be guessed by the web designer/programmer etc.
Few designers actually experience a stream of tyros sitting down to
use their design, and give them reasons.

Similarly, documentation authors must have in-depth knowledge of
their subject, but also have the ability to read the mind of the
ignorant reader.

> > But the Installation Manual comment, particularly the rhetorical
> > question, was a cheap shot IMO. Navigating these pages should be
> > straightforward. Any indication that the Installation Manual
> > is going to help that navigation, or should help, is laughable
> > and contradicts the very raison d'être of the web.
> 
> Note that the OP knew he might require firmware for his install. The
> Manual doesn't remove the need for web page navigation to be improved
> but it does give a destination for firmware images, so any port in a
> storm etc. I'd use the text version for searching.

Interesting; that might make the headings less influential when
reading it.

> Fortunately, the OP was helpfully directed to the correct netinst ISO.
> Unfortunately, it is quite possible it does not contain the firmware for
> what looks like the Atheros-based chipset he has. Off to backports and
> firmware-atheros, then. I'd link to pages on the wiki but documentation
> does not appear to be in good standing at the moment and we are told
> it is not the purpose of this list to answer practical problems by
> by guiding people to it. :)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Brian]

On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 12:04:14 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 14:05:17 (+0100), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 12:52:00PM +, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> > > Brian:
> > > 
> > > > Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
> > > > co-operation of the user.
> > 
> > :-)
> > 
> > > To recapitulate, the purpose of the list as I understand it is not to
> > > answer practical problems with "read the manual".  It defeats the purpose.
> > 
> > I think you're being a bit unfair here. Brian has surely done a bit
> > beyond saying "read the manual". He has provided leads to the relevant
> > spots in there.
> 
> He showed a much better path to the important web page
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
> He hasn't disagreed with my analysis of why people can get
> stuck on another pathway to the ISO files on that page,
> particularly the people desiring a network installation.

There was never had any reason to disagree with the analysis. The
queries starting this subthread

 > Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to?

have the answers "no" and "yes". However, the routes to the images are
varied and guessing which one a user takes to get there isn't fruitful.
 
> But the Installation Manual comment, particularly the rhetorical
> question, was a cheap shot IMO. Navigating these pages should be
> straightforward. Any indication that the Installation Manual
> is going to help that navigation, or should help, is laughable
> and contradicts the very raison d'être of the web.

Note that the OP knew he might require firmware for his install. The
Manual doesn't remove the need for web page navigation to be improved
but it does give a destination for firmware images, so any port in a
storm etc. I'd use the text version for searching.

Fortunately, the OP was helpfully directed to the correct netinst ISO.
Unfortunately, it is quite possible it does not contain the firmware for
what looks like the Atheros-based chipset he has. Off to backports and
firmware-atheros, then. I'd link to pages on the wiki but documentation
does not appear to be in good standing at the moment and we are told
it is not the purpose of this list to answer practical problems by
by guiding people to it. :)

-- 
Brian.

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[David Wright]

On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 14:05:17 (+0100), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 12:52:00PM +, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> > Brian:
> > 
> > > Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
> > > co-operation of the user.
> 
> :-)
> 
> > To recapitulate, the purpose of the list as I understand it is not to
> > answer practical problems with "read the manual".  It defeats the purpose.
> 
> I think you're being a bit unfair here. Brian has surely done a bit
> beyond saying "read the manual". He has provided leads to the relevant
> spots in there.

He showed a much better path to the important web page
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
He hasn't disagreed with my analysis of why people can get
stuck on another pathway to the ISO files on that page,
particularly the people desiring a network installation.

But the Installation Manual comment, particularly the rhetorical
question, was a cheap shot IMO. Navigating these pages should be
straightforward. Any indication that the Installation Manual
is going to help that navigation, or should help, is laughable
and contradicts the very raison d'être of the web.

> As a user, I'd perhaps wished for a friendlier tone, but hey.
> 
> And mentioning the docs & reminding people that "yes, folks, it's
> there, look..." is *helpful*, because it helps people finding things
> next time.
> 
> As a case in point, I remember how I felt the first time I had a
> look at rsync's (or find's) man page. "O $DEITY! So much stuff, I
> don't find anything". Nowadays I couldn't do without.
> 
> That's why, when someone pops up here with a thing and I can help
> at all, I try to say, but also to show *where* in the docs. It's
> not nitpickery, but helping people help themselves (and ultimately,
> help others). I see that in Brian's attempts too (Brian: am I
> reading too much in your mails?)

So let's turn to the Installation Manual/Guide. Let's assume that
you read it cover to cover but not everything went in. So then you
go to Chapter 4 to get your media. You're using the internet, so
you go to 4.2/4.2.1 as the most promising headings. Click on
the images link. Doesn't look promising, so go back and click on
Manifest link. Ah, hd-media for use on USB memory sticks, good.
Go back to the images link and click on hd-media.
All I see is files. To use them, I've got to search the Guide for
their names. (Easier with the PDF than the web pages, ironically.)

One hopes, at this point, that you take a look at the next section,
Preparing Files for USB Memory Stick Booting, where it implies
that you can't do what you want to do without already having a
linux system up and running. (Is that true? I don't know.)

Skipping that, 4.3.1 will send you back to 4.1, a section you
didn't look at because it was headed Official Debian GNU/Linux
CD/DVD-ROM Sets, and you didn't want a set of anything.

I think part of the problem of finding one's way around is that
once there were floppies (was it 4 for buzz?), which morphed
into CDs (7 for woody?), and when USB sticks came along, the
extra instructions were just added into the existing structure,
whereas it merits a redesign IMO.

Before posting this, I just saw Steve's post which is most
encouraging. I shall scurry to bug 819664, but fully understand
pressures of time. Don't read all the above as criticism of
Debian, it's not meant to be; more that pointedly pointing at
the Installation Manual link on the home page is not a very
constructive act.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Steve McIntyre]

David Wright wrote:



>But irrespective of that, it would be sensible to make it as easy to
>get from page A to http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
>without any right clicking or rubbing out, in the event that you get
>drawn down this path. Whether that's a small proportion of people or a
>large one seems irrelevant.

ACK.

I already opened a bug about the image download pages, with a proposed
new design to remove a lot of the pain in this area. See
https://bugs.debian.org/819664 for more details. Unfortunately, I've
been woefully short of time to make this new layout happen so
far. It's right at the top of my TODO list - I'd love to fix this
before we release Stretch.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
< liw> everything I know about UK hotels I learned from "Fawlty Towers"

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Brian]

On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 04:07:42 +, Dean Valentine wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 08:43 Pete Orrall  wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Dean Valentine
> >  wrote:
> > > I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access the
> > > internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand how I
> > would
> > > install the non-free package?
> >
> > Hi Dean,
> >
> > You'll have to install Debian from one of the non-free images first.
> > That should have your desired firmware.  Another user posted the
> > non-free page earlier, but in case you didn't see it here it is below:
> >
> >
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > --
> > Pete Orrall
> > p...@cs1x.com
> > www.peteorrall.com
> > "If there isn't a way, I'll make one."
> >
> I installed the netinst non-free ISO to a boot drive and I still got the
> "no ethernet card was detected" message. Does that mean the wifi on this
> computer isn't supported?

We really need to know what the chipset is. You should be able to get by
booting the installer, switching to a console with ALT-F2 and issuing
the command 'lspci',

-- 
Brian.

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Carl Fink]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:33:22PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 23:21:12 (-0400), Carl Fink wrote:
> > Not everyone has access to wired networks. I don't, to name just one
> > example of a person who does not. My last Debian install, I had to
> > use USB networking over my mobile phone to download non-free wifi
> > chipset firmware.
> 
> That's neat. What do I need to know to do that?
> (My problem is that I have to go through the
> ndiswrapper rigmarole before I can use my
> wifi dongle.)

I can only speak to what I did.

1)Plug phone into computer I was installing on using USB cable. 
2)Turn on "USB Tethering" in the Android settings.
3)Wait about 10 seconds for DHCP negotation to complete.

Seriously, it was that seamless. My phone was already connected to the local
802.11 network, so I wasn't even running up mobile charges. Latest Testing
as of a few months ago.

With USB3 it would even be quite fast (by my standards).
-- 
Carl Fink   nitpick...@nitpicking.com 

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com.  Reviews!  Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 12:52:00PM +, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> Brian:
> 
> > Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
> > co-operation of the user.

:-)

> To recapitulate, the purpose of the list as I understand it is not to
> answer practical problems with "read the manual".  It defeats the purpose.

I think you're being a bit unfair here. Brian has surely done a bit
beyond saying "read the manual". He has provided leads to the relevant
spots in there.

As a user, I'd perhaps wished for a friendlier tone, but hey.

And mentioning the docs & reminding people that "yes, folks, it's
there, look..." is *helpful*, because it helps people finding things
next time.

As a case in point, I remember how I felt the first time I had a
look at rsync's (or find's) man page. "O $DEITY! So much stuff, I
don't find anything". Nowadays I couldn't do without.

That's why, when someone pops up here with a thing and I can help
at all, I try to say, but also to show *where* in the docs. It's
not nitpickery, but helping people help themselves (and ultimately,
help others). I see that in Brian's attempts too (Brian: am I
reading too much in your mails?)

regards
- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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vEIAnAq67T/cyI7lcM4BZRufauoHjfs9
=K/yG
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[GiaThnYgeia]

Brian:

> Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
> co-operation of the user.

To a well educated ms-windows or apfel-widows to try out and see whether
they can live with debian, do you propose a couple of years of studying
before they even try a live version?  When one 1st timer tries to
install the system and gets to the linux swap partition question, should
they have printed 500 pages, have a second computer with the manuals
downloaded, or should they send a mail to the list?

It is a users list, not a developers list, not a well versed sys.admin
list, but users.  Do people who use computers for more than 10 years
understand in depth what non-free means, even if they read it in the
manual?  Would they imagine that for 90% of the aftermarket usb wifi
systems there is no free support?

With one it took me 3-4 days to get it to work on a stable debian.
Then I plugged in a tails-stick and it picked it up right away.  Is
every answer possible answered in those manuals?

Have you read the whole Gimp manual before you used it?
Every package in this system has 20 pages of code and 200 pages of
documentation that sometimes does not make much sense to a
debian-freshman,  In other words the majority of debian documentation
explain things with debian specific terminology.

To recapitulate, the purpose of the list as I understand it is not to
answer practical problems with "read the manual".  It defeats the purpose.

kAt

-- 
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Brian]

On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 03:19:00 +, GiaThnYgeia wrote:

> Brian:
> > It is also just as easy to find
> >  https://www.debian.org/CD/
> > and then
> >  https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/
> > which leads to
> >  http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
> 
> But he already mentioned this link

Well-spotted.

> > without any right clicking or rubbing out. 
> > What rules are these?
> > It is shown above that it is not difficult to find.
> > The netinst ISO is hardly huge.
> 
> Do you have anything to offer to the discussion or is it just bitter
> criticism to others' questions?

The jury is still out on that.

> And what are you so defensive about, criticism of poorly organized
> information and poorly documented software?  The chaotic nature of these
> systems comes from the chaotic system of development.  Most of the tiny
> parts that make the whole thing work are developed by programmers whose
> expertise on the tiny details prevent them from being able to
> communicate the importance to the rest of the users (some are other
> developers).  Are there segments of this chaotic hierarchy that
> outsiders can understand?  Under each piece of code sits a tremendous
> hierarchy and the next block up makes this hierarchy look minute.

To offer a different view is to be "defensive" and "bitter"?

> If you can offer a hint in solving someone's problem because you know
> better fine.  To criticism someone because they haven't read 2000
> zillion pages of debian manuals to know what you do is ludicrous.

David Wright correctly points out that the availability of unofficial
images is not prominently signposted from the Debian home page. Indeed,
a user who obtained the debian-8.7.1-amd64-i386-netinst.iso from the
link in the upper right-hand corner of the page and installed it without
doing anything else would, quite possibly, run into the firmware
problem.

The Installation Manual is featured on the home page. I wonder why?

> -- 
>  "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
co-operation of the user.

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Dean Valentine]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 08:43 Pete Orrall  wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Dean Valentine
>  wrote:
> > I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access the
> > internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand how I
> would
> > install the non-free package?
>
> Hi Dean,
>
> You'll have to install Debian from one of the non-free images first.
> That should have your desired firmware.  Another user posted the
> non-free page earlier, but in case you didn't see it here it is below:
>
>
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
>
> Good luck.
>
> --
> Pete Orrall
> p...@cs1x.com
> www.peteorrall.com
> "If there isn't a way, I'll make one."
>
I installed the netinst non-free ISO to a boot drive and I still got the
"no ethernet card was detected" message. Does that mean the wifi on this
computer isn't supported?

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[David Wright]

On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 23:21:12 (-0400), Carl Fink wrote:
> Not everyone has access to wired networks. I don't, to name just one
> example of a person who does not. My last Debian install, I had to
> use USB networking over my mobile phone to download non-free wifi
> chipset firmware.

That's neat. What do I need to know to do that?
(My problem is that I have to go through the
ndiswrapper rigmarole before I can use my
wifi dongle.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Carl Fink]

Not everyone has access to wired networks. I don't, to name just one 
example of a person who does not. My last Debian install, I had to use 
USB networking over my mobile phone to download non-free wifi chipset 
firmware.



On 03/15/2017 11:13 PM, Davor Balder wrote:


Do you have access to ethernet port from your machine?

If so, Debian installer *should* (in most cases) work with that until 
you install what you need to get WiFi working. In fact, that is how 
most of my recent Debian installs went...



On 03/16/2017 01:45, Dean Valentine wrote:
I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access 
the internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand 
how I would install the non-free package?


On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 2:01 AM, Tim Ye > wrote:


Hi,

On 2017-03-15 07:57+0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine
> wrote:
>
> > I have installed three operating systems on this computer:
Linux Mint,
> > Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems
detecting and using
> > my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up
on lspci, but
> > when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it
fails and tells
> > me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO
you've
> > provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/
, but that
> > couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at
least I think I
> > see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
> >
> > What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there
are linux
> > drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're
just not in
> > Debian's isos for some reason.
> >
> > Thank you for your time. I love your work.
> >
>
> There is a package "firmware-atheros" .

You may want to add 'non-free' in your 'source.list' file.  My
'/etc/apt/sources.list' looks like this:

deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free

# jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main
non-free

Reference:


http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-enable-non-free-packages-on-debian



>
> If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your
problem.
>
> Regards
> Johann
>
>
>
> --
> Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
> my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)

Thanks,

- Tim

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[GiaThnYgeia]

Brian:
> It is also just as easy to find
>  https://www.debian.org/CD/
> and then
>  https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/
> which leads to
>  http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/

But he already mentioned this link

> without any right clicking or rubbing out. 
> What rules are these?
> It is shown above that it is not difficult to find.
> The netinst ISO is hardly huge.

Do you have anything to offer to the discussion or is it just bitter
criticism to others' questions?

And what are you so defensive about, criticism of poorly organized
information and poorly documented software?  The chaotic nature of these
systems comes from the chaotic system of development.  Most of the tiny
parts that make the whole thing work are developed by programmers whose
expertise on the tiny details prevent them from being able to
communicate the importance to the rest of the users (some are other
developers).  Are there segments of this chaotic hierarchy that
outsiders can understand?  Under each piece of code sits a tremendous
hierarchy and the next block up makes this hierarchy look minute.

If you can offer a hint in solving someone's problem because you know
better fine.  To criticism someone because they haven't read 2000
zillion pages of debian manuals to know what you do is ludicrous.

-- 
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Davor Balder]

Do you have access to ethernet port from your machine?

If so, Debian installer *should* (in most cases) work with that until 
you install what you need to get WiFi working. In fact, that is how most 
of my recent Debian installs went...



On 03/16/2017 01:45, Dean Valentine wrote:
I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access the 
internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand how I 
would install the non-free package?


On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 2:01 AM, Tim Ye > wrote:


Hi,

On 2017-03-15 07:57+0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine
> wrote:
>
> > I have installed three operating systems on this computer:
Linux Mint,
> > Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems
detecting and using
> > my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up
on lspci, but
> > when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it
fails and tells
> > me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO
you've
> > provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/
, but that
> > couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at
least I think I
> > see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
> >
> > What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there
are linux
> > drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're
just not in
> > Debian's isos for some reason.
> >
> > Thank you for your time. I love your work.
> >
>
> There is a package "firmware-atheros" .

You may want to add 'non-free' in your 'source.list' file.  My
'/etc/apt/sources.list' looks like this:

deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free

# jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main
non-free

Reference:


http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-enable-non-free-packages-on-debian



>
> If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your
problem.
>
> Regards
> Johann
>
>
>
> --
> Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
> my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)

Thanks,

- Tim

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[David Wright]

On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 20:27:08 (+), Brian wrote:
> On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 13:44:39 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > (Posted to debian-www as well.)
> > 
> > On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 12:21:14 (-0500), Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > > Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to? For example
> > > the FAQ says "Sometimes, someone is kind enough to create unofficial
> > > non-free CDs. If you cannot find any links on this website, you can try
> > > asking on the debian-cd mailing list." Yet there is no link there to the
> > > unofficial pages. Yes Google finds them
> > 
> > You are not alone. The problem as I see it is that it's easy to find
> > this page:
> > 
> > https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst
> 
> It is also just as easy to find
> 
>  https://www.debian.org/CD/

Well, let's see how you get to the first of these two pages (call it
A) from Debian's home page. The first principal paragraph on the home
page starts:

"Getting Started

"If you'd like to start using Debian, you can easily obtain a copy,
and then follow the installation instructions to install it."

What's more natural than to click on "obtain a copy".
Then you see "Download an installation image" and click on that,
to arrive at:

https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst

In contrast, to get to the other page (B), you have to read through
the menu options (in fine print), and _not_ click on "Network Install"
(which would take you straight to A), but choose the next item,
"CD/USB ISO images". When hovering over that link, the sight of
"https://www.debian.org/CD/; might cause people to avoid it
because they don't want to burn a CD.

> and then
> 
>  https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/

Shame about the heading, no mention of USB images. Now scroll down
that page, and avoid clicking on the "network install" link (although
that might be your aim). Keep going to the paragraph headed CDs, with
the architecture links. No mention of USB here.

> which leads to
> 
>  http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
> 
> without any right clicking or rubbing out. 

That's right. Page B is a better route to take, but the links to it
are less prominent, and less clearly labelled for someone who wants to
install over the net rather than burn or purchase CDs.

But irrespective of that, it would be sensible to make it as easy to
get from page A to http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
without any right clicking or rubbing out, in the event that you get
drawn down this path. Whether that's a small proportion of people or a
large one seems irrelevant.

> > on which three options are given. When you click on an architecture,
> > the 2nd and 3rd options take you to directory pages. However, the
> > (most popular?) first option has ISO links¹ which you certainly don't
> > want to click on if you're playing by the rules.
> 
> What rules are these?

Go back one page to https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/ and
read the first paragraph. The one that's boxed, shaded and
has a lightbulb to draw attention to it:

"Please do not download CD or DVD images with your web browser the way
you download other files! The reason is that if your download aborts,
most browsers do not allow you to resume from the point where it failed."

> > If you copy the ISO link (right click it) into a browser's address bar
> > and rubout the ISO name itself, you'll get to (for i386):
> > 
> > http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
> > 
> > This difficult-to-find page will not only satisfy those searching for
> > SHA sums, but it also has a paragraph headed:
> 
> It is shown above that it is not difficult to find.

Relatively it is, if you have been seduced down the path to page A.

> > Non-free Firmware
> > 
> > which gives you a link to firmware-inclusive versions, daily/weekly
> > builds etc etc.
> > 
> > ¹ Bad design IMO. They ought to take you to
> > http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current//iso-cd/
> > This page has links which make it obvious what they're pointing to—
> > huge files!
> 
> The netinst ISO is hardly huge.

A reasonable test is "Can I email it? No? Then it's huge". And there's
no warning by the link of its size.

A lot of people who need firmware are likely to download the other
one first, so you can double its size on that score.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Brian]

On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 13:44:39 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> (Posted to debian-www as well.)
> 
> On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 12:21:14 (-0500), Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to? For example
> > the FAQ says "Sometimes, someone is kind enough to create unofficial
> > non-free CDs. If you cannot find any links on this website, you can try
> > asking on the debian-cd mailing list." Yet there is no link there to the
> > unofficial pages. Yes Google finds them
> 
> You are not alone. The problem as I see it is that it's easy to find
> this page:
> 
> https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst

It is also just as easy to find

 https://www.debian.org/CD/

and then

 https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/

which leads to

 http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/

without any right clicking or rubbing out. 
 
> on which three options are given. When you click on an architecture,
> the 2nd and 3rd options take you to directory pages. However, the
> (most popular?) first option has ISO links¹ which you certainly don't
> want to click on if you're playing by the rules.

What rules are these?

> If you copy the ISO link (right click it) into a browser's address bar
> and rubout the ISO name itself, you'll get to (for i386):
> 
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
> 
> This difficult-to-find page will not only satisfy those searching for
> SHA sums, but it also has a paragraph headed:

It is shown above that it is not difficult to find.

> Non-free Firmware
> 
> which gives you a link to firmware-inclusive versions, daily/weekly
> builds etc etc.
> 
> ¹ Bad design IMO. They ought to take you to
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current//iso-cd/
> This page has links which make it obvious what they're pointing to—
> huge files!

The netinst ISO is hardly huge.

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Brian  wrote:

>
> Anyway - some bedtime reading:
>   https://lwn.net/Articles/655519/


Thanks for that, a meeting report from Debian maintainer Steve McIntyre on
this very subject from Debconf 2015 is linked from there:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/08/msg00622.html

And it turns-out I did not imagine it:
"We already provide *unofficial* non-free versions of installer and live
images on cdimage.debian.org, but we've been deliberately not advertising
these as well as the normal main images. This means that a lot of users
don't find them."

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Brian]

On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 14:48:48 -0400, Pete Orrall wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Nicholas Geovanis
>  wrote:
> > Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to?
> 
> Nicholas, I agree with you there.  I don't know if it's intentional
> but the links to the unofficial images do seem rather hidden.

Are they really "Hidden"? Or just not as prominent. The Installation
Guide gives a link. Someone installing Debian surely would read that?

Anyway - some bedtime reading:

  https://lwn.net/Articles/655519/

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Pete Orrall]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Nicholas Geovanis
 wrote:
> Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to?

Nicholas, I agree with you there.  I don't know if it's intentional
but the links to the unofficial images do seem rather hidden.

-- 
Pete Orrall
p...@cs1x.com
www.peteorrall.com
"If there isn't a way, I'll make one."

Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[David Wright]

(Posted to debian-www as well.)

On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 12:21:14 (-0500), Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to? For example
> the FAQ says "Sometimes, someone is kind enough to create unofficial
> non-free CDs. If you cannot find any links on this website, you can try
> asking on the debian-cd mailing list." Yet there is no link there to the
> unofficial pages. Yes Google finds them

You are not alone. The problem as I see it is that it's easy to find
this page:

https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst

on which three options are given. When you click on an architecture,
the 2nd and 3rd options take you to directory pages. However, the
(most popular?) first option has ISO links¹ which you certainly don't
want to click on if you're playing by the rules.

If you copy the ISO link (right click it) into a browser's address bar
and rubout the ISO name itself, you'll get to (for i386):

http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/

This difficult-to-find page will not only satisfy those searching for
SHA sums, but it also has a paragraph headed:

Non-free Firmware

which gives you a link to firmware-inclusive versions, daily/weekly
builds etc etc.

¹ Bad design IMO. They ought to take you to
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current//iso-cd/
This page has links which make it obvious what they're pointing to—
huge files!

Cheers,
David.

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Nicholas Geovanis]

Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to? For example
the FAQ says "Sometimes, someone is kind enough to create unofficial
non-free CDs. If you cannot find any links on this website, you can try
asking on the debian-cd mailing list." Yet there is no link there to the
unofficial pages. Yes Google finds them


On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Peter Hillier-Brook 
wrote:

> On 15/03/17 14:45, Dean Valentine wrote:
> > I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access the
> > internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand how I
> > would install the non-free package?
>
> This may help you.
>
> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/
> cd-including-firmware/8.7.1+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/
>
> firmware-8.7.1-amd64-netinst.iso
>
> Peter HB
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 2017-03-15 07:57+0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> > > On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine  > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux
> Mint,
> > > > Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting
> and using
> > > > my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on
> lspci, but
> > > > when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails
> and tells
> > > > me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO
> you've
> > > > provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
> > > > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/
> > , but that
> > > > couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least
> I think I
> > > > see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
> > > >
> > > > What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are
> linux
> > > > drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're
> just not in
> > > > Debian's isos for some reason.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your time. I love your work.
> > > >
> > >
> > > There is a package "firmware-atheros" .
> >
> > You may want to add 'non-free' in your 'source.list' file.  My
> > '/etc/apt/sources.list' looks like this:
> >
> > deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
> > deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
> >
> > deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
> > deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
> >
> > # jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
> > deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
> > deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main
> non-free
> >
> > Reference:
> >
> > http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-
> enable-non-free-packages-on-debian
> >  enable-non-free-packages-on-debian>
> >
> > >
> > > If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your
> problem.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Johann
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
> > > my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > - Tim
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Peter Hillier-Brook]

On 15/03/17 14:45, Dean Valentine wrote:
> I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access the
> internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand how I
> would install the non-free package?

This may help you.

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/8.7.1+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/

firmware-8.7.1-amd64-netinst.iso

Peter HB
> Hi,
> 
> On 2017-03-15 07:57+0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> > On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine  > wrote:
> >
> > > I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
> > > Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and 
> using
> > > my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on 
> lspci, but
> > > when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and 
> tells
> > > me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
> > > provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
> > > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/
> , but that
> > > couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I 
> think I
> > > see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
> > >
> > > What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
> > > drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not 
> in
> > > Debian's isos for some reason.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your time. I love your work.
> > >
> >
> > There is a package "firmware-atheros" .
> 
> You may want to add 'non-free' in your 'source.list' file.  My
> '/etc/apt/sources.list' looks like this:
> 
> deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
> deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
> 
> deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
> 
> # jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
> deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
> deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
> 
> Reference:
> 
> 
> http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-enable-non-free-packages-on-debian
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your problem.
> >
> > Regards
> > Johann
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
> > my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> - Tim
> 
> 

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Pete Orrall]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Dean Valentine
 wrote:
> I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access the
> internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand how I would
> install the non-free package?

Hi Dean,

You'll have to install Debian from one of the non-free images first.
That should have your desired firmware.  Another user posted the
non-free page earlier, but in case you didn't see it here it is below:

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/

Good luck.

-- 
Pete Orrall
p...@cs1x.com
www.peteorrall.com
"If there isn't a way, I'll make one."

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Dean Valentine]

I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access the
internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand how I
would install the non-free package?

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 2:01 AM, Tim Ye  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 2017-03-15 07:57+0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> > On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine 
> wrote:
> >
> > > I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
> > > Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and
> using
> > > my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on lspci,
> but
> > > when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and
> tells
> > > me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
> > > provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
> > > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but that
> > > couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I
> think I
> > > see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
> > >
> > > What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
> > > drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not
> in
> > > Debian's isos for some reason.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your time. I love your work.
> > >
> >
> > There is a package "firmware-atheros" .
>
> You may want to add 'non-free' in your 'source.list' file.  My
> '/etc/apt/sources.list' looks like this:
>
> deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
> deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
>
> deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
>
> # jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
> deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
> deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
>
> Reference:
>
> http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-
> enable-non-free-packages-on-debian
>
> >
> > If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your problem.
> >
> > Regards
> > Johann
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
> > my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Tim
>

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Davor Balder]

On 15/03/17 20:01, Tim Ye wrote:

Hi,

On 2017-03-15 07:57+0200, Johann Spies wrote:

On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine  wrote:


I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and using
my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on lspci, but
when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and tells
me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but that
couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I think I
see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually

What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not in
Debian's isos for some reason.

Thank you for your time. I love your work.


There is a package "firmware-atheros" .

You may want to add 'non-free' in your 'source.list' file.  My
'/etc/apt/sources.list' looks like this:

 deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
 deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
 
 deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free

 deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
 
 # jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'

 deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
 deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free

Reference:

http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-enable-non-free-packages-on-debian


Yes - the above line would do it.

once you alter your sources.list do:

apt-get update
apt-get install firmware-atheros

We hope that should solve your issue and you should be able to continue 
enjoying Debian.




If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your problem.

Regards
Johann



--
Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)

Thanks,

- Tim

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Tim Ye]

Hi,

On 2017-03-15 07:57+0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine  wrote:
> 
> > I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
> > Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and using
> > my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on lspci, but
> > when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and tells
> > me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
> > provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but that
> > couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I think I
> > see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
> >
> > What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
> > drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not in
> > Debian's isos for some reason.
> >
> > Thank you for your time. I love your work.
> >
> 
> There is a package "firmware-atheros" .

You may want to add 'non-free' in your 'source.list' file.  My 
'/etc/apt/sources.list' looks like this:

deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free

# jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free

Reference:

http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-enable-non-free-packages-on-debian

> 
> If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your problem.
> 
> Regards
> Johann
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
> my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)

Thanks,

- Tim

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Jimmy Johnson]

On 03/14/2017 09:57 PM, Dean Valentine wrote:

I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and using
my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on lspci, but
when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and tells
me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but that couldn't
find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I think I see) my
drivers listed, and when i select them manually

What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not in
Debian's isos for some reason.

Thank you for your time. I love your work.


Hi,

You didn't read that page.  Here's the link you want: 
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ 
Good luck.

--
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Stretch - KDE Plasma 5.8.4 - AMD64 - EXT4 at sda6
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Johann Spies]

On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine  wrote:

> I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
> Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and using
> my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on lspci, but
> when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and tells
> me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
> provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but that
> couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I think I
> see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
>
> What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
> drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not in
> Debian's isos for some reason.
>
> Thank you for your time. I love your work.
>

There is a package "firmware-atheros" .

If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your problem.

Regards
Johann



-- 
Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)

Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Dean Valentine]

I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and using
my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on lspci, but
when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and tells
me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but that couldn't
find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I think I see) my
drivers listed, and when i select them manually

What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not in
Debian's isos for some reason.

Thank you for your time. I love your work.