Re: My printer doesn't work for bullseye's cups

[Brian]

On Thu 24 Feb 2022 at 14:39:55 -0500, gene heskett wrote:

> On Thursday, February 24, 2022 1:08:26 PM EST Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 23 Feb 2022 at 18:44:37 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > [...[
> > 
> > > With all the crash and burn sessions I've had with bullseye, I'd have
> > > to go get the drivers anew from Brother if cups-everywhere can't do
> > > it.
> > It is possible it may yet come to that.
> > 
> > > Is that what I have to do for this printer? FWIW No Brother printers
> > > show up at all in the ppd selection menu.
> > > 
> > > Might be related:
> > > sane-find-scanner, run as root, finds the scanner in this MFC at:
> > > 
> > > found USB scanner (vendor=0x04f9 [Brother], product=0x02f5
> > > [MFC-J6920DW]) at libusb:003:005
> > > 
> > > but xsane can't find it. So both the printer and the scanner are on
> > > the injured list.
> > 
> > Let's put scanning on one side for the time being.
> > 
> > 1. Read the Release Notes for Debian 11.
> > 
> > 2. Disconnect fro USB. It complicates matters.
> > 
> I would much rather the installer was taught to iterrogate whats beyond 
> an fdti serial adaptor, they are used to drive far more than braille 
> interfaces, or make the installer as the user if they WANT the speech 
> dispatcher and brltty. I don't, and the only way I've found to control 
> all that BS is to edit their configs to send their screaming fits aboiut 
> not finding brltty, to /dev/null.  Blaming the user for not disconnecting 
> a usb tree that looks like a weeping willow is at best poor form.
> 
> Then refusing to advise that user howe to legally uniinstall that crap 
> just frosts the cake.  Fix the damned installer.
> 
> As for my printer, I'll install the Brother drivers, they've Just Worked 
> for over a decade now.
>  
> > 3. Give
> >avahi-browse -rt _ipp._tcp
> >avahi-browse -rt _uscan._tcp
> >driverless
> 
> And what will that do, except further screw things up.
> 
> Avahi is another of those unwanted "helpers". I've had to disable or 
> uninstal it since wheezy because it insists on overwriteing the route to 
> the network with bogus 169.xx.yy.zz numbers.
> 
> > 4. avahi-browse is in the avahi-utils package.
> 
> And have it wreck this installs host file based network? I think not.
> 
> I originally asked how to get rid of brltty. And was ignored. No one has 
> suggested a course of action except yet anothr install AFTER gutting the 
> system of usb which would include the keyboard and mouse.
> 
> Stop ignoring the users complaints and fix the installer, at the very 
> least by asking the user if he wants it, and don't install it if he says 
> no. I have no problem with aiding the blind, but make even him confirm he 
> wants it before its made a permanent part of the install.
> 
> Currently, if its enabled at install, and removed 30 minutes later, the 
> system stops forever about 10 seconds into a reboot because it can't find 
> it, but thats without any sign of a log saying why it won't reboot.  I 
> did 4 installs proving that boot stall was that once I managed at get 4 
> out of 2+2.  You may take it that yes, I'm unhappy. This was far more 
> annoying than it was years ago when I installed stretch. I had forgotten 
> about that, but that didn't lead to 15 or 20 reinstalls like this did 
> either.
> 
> No Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 

Years ago I resolved never to get involved with your printing syste. I
broke that resolution today because I thought you really needed help.
One lives and learns.

Your response has been the worst I have ever met from any user. It does
not addresss a single requested point for information. The questions
have been completely ignored. Basically, you haven't a clue what you are
doing regarding printing, so you construct a narrative to pull the wool
over users' eyes. This is your standard technique.

The response is also ill-informed, technically deficient, ignorent of
what is invlved on bullseye and dismissive. In short, it displays an
uderstanding of our printing system that is pathetic.

On the bright side: Your self-serving response makes you eligible for the
Piss Artist of the Year award.

-- 
Brian.

Re: My printer doesn't work for bullseye's cups

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 02:39:55PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On Thursday, February 24, 2022 1:08:26 PM EST Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 23 Feb 2022 at 18:44:37 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > [...[
> > 
> > > With all the crash and burn sessions I've had with bullseye, I'd have
> > > to go get the drivers anew from Brother if cups-everywhere can't do
> > > it.
> > It is possible it may yet come to that.
> > 
> > > Is that what I have to do for this printer? FWIW No Brother printers
> > > show up at all in the ppd selection menu.
> > > 
> > > Might be related:
> > > sane-find-scanner, run as root, finds the scanner in this MFC at:
> > > 
> > > found USB scanner (vendor=0x04f9 [Brother], product=0x02f5
> > > [MFC-J6920DW]) at libusb:003:005
> > > 
> > > but xsane can't find it. So both the printer and the scanner are on
> > > the injured list.
> > 
> > Let's put scanning on one side for the time being.
> > 
> > 1. Read the Release Notes for Debian 11.
> > 
> > 2. Disconnect fro USB. It complicates matters.
> > 

Hi Gene,

> I would much rather the installer was taught to iterrogate whats beyond 
> an fdti serial adaptor, they are used to drive far more than braille 
> interfaces, or make the installer as the user if they WANT the speech 
> dispatcher and brltty. I don't, and the only way I've found to control 
> all that BS is to edit their configs to send their screaming fits aboiut 
> not finding brltty, to /dev/null.  Blaming the user for not disconnecting 
> a usb tree that looks like a weeping willow is at best poor form.

You're not a visually impaired user absolutely reliant on speech output / 
a Braille display. That step is there for them: there's a beep - if you hit
s on that, you get speech (mostly) for the remainder of the install.

If you have a brltty as a serial device, the installer does a check for serial
and tries to activate something that will make it work.

If you do neither, the installer goes right over that and there's no effect
for anyone else. It costs you relatively little to do a clean install
- which will go nowhere near brltty - by disconnecting serial devices briefly.
You're capable and you can make use of your sight.

Blaming everybody else - even those who are trying to help you - isn't helping
endear folks to your approach.

If not, I've told you how to remove brltty neatly by removing the packages and
their reverse dependencies.
> 
> Then refusing to advise that user howe to legally uniinstall that crap 
> just frosts the cake.  Fix the damned installer.
> 

The installer is fine: I've used it many, many times - including deliberately
testing speech output / high contrast installs to check they worked.

> As for my printer, I'll install the Brother drivers, they've Just Worked 
> for over a decade now.
>  
> > 3. Give
> >avahi-browse -rt _ipp._tcp
> >avahi-browse -rt _uscan._tcp
> >driverless
> 
> And what will that do, except further screw things up.
> 

Folks are trying to be polite and helpful. You may find that you no longer
need the Brother drivers: driverless printing works for many more printers 
now.

Similarly - if you have two interfaces plugged into the same printer,
it's sometimes harder to debug: if you want a network printer, set it up
as such without needing USB, perhaps?

> Avahi is another of those unwanted "helpers". I've had to disable or 
> uninstal it since wheezy because it insists on overwriteing the route to 
> the network with bogus 169.xx.yy.zz numbers.
> 
> > 4. avahi-browse is in the avahi-utils package.
> 
> And have it wreck this installs host file based network? I think not.
> 

Host file based networks have already been done to death on another thread
of yours, I think.

> I originally asked how to get rid of brltty. And was ignored. No one has 
> suggested a course of action except yet anothr install AFTER gutting the 
> system of usb which would include the keyboard and mouse.
> 

See above: you weren't ignored.

USB serial _doesn't_ include the keyboard and mouse if you're using a USB 
wireless dongle: if it did, I would also hae had the same issues you have.

> Stop ignoring the users complaints and fix the installer, at the very 
> least by asking the user if he wants it, and don't install it if he says 
> no. I have no problem with aiding the blind, but make even him confirm he 
> wants it before its made a permanent part of the install.
> 
> Currently, if its enabled at install, and removed 30 minutes later, the 
> system stops forever about 10 seconds into a reboot because it can't find 
> it, but thats without any sign of a log saying why it won't reboot.  I 
> did 4 installs proving that boot stall was that once I managed at get 4 
> out of 2+2.  You may take it that yes, I'm unhappy. This was far more 
> annoying than it was years ago when I installed stretch. I had forgotten 
> about that, but that didn't lead to 15 or 20 reinstalls like this did 
> either.
> 

Please help us to help you by detailing problems and 

Re: My printer doesn't work for bullseye's cups

[tomas]

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 02:39:55PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> I would much rather the installer was taught to iterrogate whats beyond 

[rest of rant deleted]

Gene,

this is no paid-for service (and even if it were, this kind of
ranting at people is still unwarranted for). The software is
made by volunteers, at no cost to you. The help is given by
volunteers, again, at no cost to you.

I understand that dealing with software can be frustrating at
times. But your way to rant at people isn't justified by that,
IMHO.

Go let steam off the way you prefer before posting here. This
would even make your posts easier to understand (what the hell
is a rant about BRLTTY doing here? I thought you have a problem
with CUPS?).

Be considerate. Help others help you.

As far as I'm concerned, I feel less and less motivated to
help you (in the concrete case I couldn't anyway, since
CUPS is not my home turf).

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: My printer doesn't work for bullseye's cups

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 1:08:26 PM EST Brian wrote:
> On Wed 23 Feb 2022 at 18:44:37 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> 
> [...[
> 
> > With all the crash and burn sessions I've had with bullseye, I'd have
> > to go get the drivers anew from Brother if cups-everywhere can't do
> > it.
> It is possible it may yet come to that.
> 
> > Is that what I have to do for this printer? FWIW No Brother printers
> > show up at all in the ppd selection menu.
> > 
> > Might be related:
> > sane-find-scanner, run as root, finds the scanner in this MFC at:
> > 
> > found USB scanner (vendor=0x04f9 [Brother], product=0x02f5
> > [MFC-J6920DW]) at libusb:003:005
> > 
> > but xsane can't find it. So both the printer and the scanner are on
> > the injured list.
> 
> Let's put scanning on one side for the time being.
> 
> 1. Read the Release Notes for Debian 11.
> 
> 2. Disconnect fro USB. It complicates matters.
> 
I would much rather the installer was taught to iterrogate whats beyond 
an fdti serial adaptor, they are used to drive far more than braille 
interfaces, or make the installer as the user if they WANT the speech 
dispatcher and brltty. I don't, and the only way I've found to control 
all that BS is to edit their configs to send their screaming fits aboiut 
not finding brltty, to /dev/null.  Blaming the user for not disconnecting 
a usb tree that looks like a weeping willow is at best poor form.

Then refusing to advise that user howe to legally uniinstall that crap 
just frosts the cake.  Fix the damned installer.

As for my printer, I'll install the Brother drivers, they've Just Worked 
for over a decade now.
 
> 3. Give
>avahi-browse -rt _ipp._tcp
>avahi-browse -rt _uscan._tcp
>driverless

And what will that do, except further screw things up.

Avahi is another of those unwanted "helpers". I've had to disable or 
uninstal it since wheezy because it insists on overwriteing the route to 
the network with bogus 169.xx.yy.zz numbers.

> 4. avahi-browse is in the avahi-utils package.

And have it wreck this installs host file based network? I think not.

I originally asked how to get rid of brltty. And was ignored. No one has 
suggested a course of action except yet anothr install AFTER gutting the 
system of usb which would include the keyboard and mouse.

Stop ignoring the users complaints and fix the installer, at the very 
least by asking the user if he wants it, and don't install it if he says 
no. I have no problem with aiding the blind, but make even him confirm he 
wants it before its made a permanent part of the install.

Currently, if its enabled at install, and removed 30 minutes later, the 
system stops forever about 10 seconds into a reboot because it can't find 
it, but thats without any sign of a log saying why it won't reboot.  I 
did 4 installs proving that boot stall was that once I managed at get 4 
out of 2+2.  You may take it that yes, I'm unhappy. This was far more 
annoying than it was years ago when I installed stretch. I had forgotten 
about that, but that didn't lead to 15 or 20 reinstalls like this did 
either.

No Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: My printer doesn't work for bullseye's cups

[Brian]

On Thu 24 Feb 2022 at 09:26:40 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

> On 24/02/2022 06:35, Klaus Singvogel wrote:
> > linuxprinting.org showed me, that your printer Brother MFC-J6920DW is
> > listed as paperweight only, regarding Open Source drivres.
> 
> It seems to support AirPrint (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201311), so
> driverless printing (actually a universal driver) should work.
> 
> This wiki page has some instructions:
> https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSDriverlessPrinting . It's a bit confusing,
> though.

Please pinpoint the source(s) of confusion.

-- 
Brian.

Re: My printer doesn't work for bullseye's cups

[Brian]

On Wed 23 Feb 2022 at 18:44:37 -0500, gene heskett wrote:

[...[

> With all the crash and burn sessions I've had with bullseye, I'd have to 
> go get the drivers anew from Brother if cups-everywhere can't do it.

It is possible it may yet come to that.

> Is that what I have to do for this printer? FWIW No Brother printers show 
> up at all in the ppd selection menu.
> 
> Might be related:
> sane-find-scanner, run as root, finds the scanner in this MFC at:
>  
> found USB scanner (vendor=0x04f9 [Brother], product=0x02f5 [MFC-J6920DW]) 
> at libusb:003:005
> 
> but xsane can't find it. So both the printer and the scanner are on the 
> injured list.

Let's put scanning on one side for the time being.

1. Read the Release Notes for Debian 11.

2. Disconnect fro USB. It complicates matters.

3. Give
   avahi-browse -rt _ipp._tcp
   avahi-browse -rt _uscan._tcp
   driverless

4. avahi-browse is in the avahi-utils package.

-- 
Brian.

Re: My printer doesn't work for bullseye's cups

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 24/02/2022 06:35, Klaus Singvogel wrote:

linuxprinting.org showed me, that your printer Brother MFC-J6920DW is
listed as paperweight only, regarding Open Source drivres.


It seems to support AirPrint (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201311), 
so driverless printing (actually a universal driver) should work.


This wiki page has some instructions: 
https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSDriverlessPrinting . It's a bit confusing, 
though.



--
A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.
-- Adlai Stevenson

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Re: My printer doesn't work for bullseye's cups

[Klaus Singvogel]

Hi Gene,

linuxprinting.org showed me, that your printer Brother MFC-J6920DW is
listed as paperweight only, regarding Open Source drivres.

But a quick search with Google showed me this promising site with Linux
drivers:


https://support.brother.com/g/b/downloadtop.aspx?c=us=en=mfcj6920dw_us_eu_as

Best regards,
Klaus.
-- 
Klaus Singvogel
GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D  1994-06-27

My printer doesn't work for bullseye's cups

[gene heskett]

Greetings all;

Hat in hand again, I've now spent about 6 hours fooling with localhost:
631, trying to configure a Brother J-6920DW printer. which cups can find 
several copies of because its got both usb and cat5 cables plugged in and 
has an ip4 address in my home network block. Its an unusual inkjet 
printer, feed paper sideways and can even do tabloid size paper, double 
sided, also has a quite accurate tabloid sized auto feed scanner for a 
top.

The admin->add (or modify) printer config at localhost:631 works with no 
reported errors, but send it a test page and it reports it can't find a 
printer to send it to around 10 seconds later, or in some cases sends it 
to /dev/null instantly, again w/o reporting any problems until its timed 
out looking for the printer. No sign of the process in jobs if it has 
sent it to /dev/null other that its display lights up like its been 
tickled or whatever.

With all the crash and burn sessions I've had with bullseye, I'd have to 
go get the drivers anew from Brother if cups-everywhere can't do it.

Is that what I have to do for this printer? FWIW No Brother printers show 
up at all in the ppd selection menu.

Might be related:
sane-find-scanner, run as root, finds the scanner in this MFC at:
 
found USB scanner (vendor=0x04f9 [Brother], product=0x02f5 [MFC-J6920DW]) 
at libusb:003:005

but xsane can't find it. So both the printer and the scanner are on the 
injured list.

Thank you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page