Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

I have a sneaky suspicion it's a writing-style thing. I'll make 'em
shorter next time.  

On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 12:51:53 +, you wrote:

>On Thursday 07 January 2016 12:36:25 Steve Matzura wrote:
>> Lisi,
>>
>> On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:04:33 +, you wrote:
>> >I don't know how difficult it would be for you, but would it be possible
>> > for you to split your text up a bit?
>>
>> Split it up? I don't know what you mean.
>
>Put some paragraphs in.  Let in some air.  Your text is just one big block 
>with no gaps, which is very difficult for me to read.  I'll ask my blind 
>friend how he how does it - and how to explain so that you will understand.  
>Since you can't see anyway, you obviously don't know what an unbroken block 
>of text looks like.
>
>I'll ask Mike and get back to you.
>
>Lisi
>

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

Richard:

On Mon, 04 Jan 2016 05:53:15 -0600, you wrote:

>On 1/4/2016 5:07 AM, Chris Bannister wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 09:32:36AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>
>>> A side question to Steve, "Is this post screen reader friendly?"
>>
>> That reminds me of the lecturers who say 'Hands up if you can't hear me
>> at the back.'
>>
>
>I thought it was a logical question ;}

It was. Just because something isn't screenreader-friendly doesn't
mean it's unreadable. It's not an bistable situation; more like
picking a clam out of a shell, where sometimes there's more shell than
clam, and sometimes you get no shell at all, just the meat, meaning,
in this case, just plain text with no frills and markup code. But
that's largely the purvue of the messaging client, not the
screenreader. Screenreaders speak what text is presented to them, and
in some cases try to distinguish what's important, or most important,
to be spoken based on text attributes, mostly color attributes, or in
the case of a dialog box, where the cursor is located--i.e., what
control in said dialog on which the cursor is placed. Take Outlook,
for instance. It knows what to do with HTML, where the email program
I'm using does not, so if I get email that's full of HTML, I just
throw it into a browser and I'm good for reading it over there.
Luckily, very little email comes full of HTML these days unless it's
store spam, and those I just discard automatically anyway, but even
though my chosen email client doesn't handle HTML well, I have
alternatives. That's one thing visually impaired computer users learn
early in the game--there's almost always an alternative that will suit
one's requirements. Read: "where there's a will, there's a way."
That's the accessibility biz for ya, which is why I chose Debian,
because it's low-overhead, no GUI required, unless I want or need one,
which I don't.

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Richard Owlett]

On 1/4/2016 8:10 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:

On Monday 04 January 2016 11:53:15 Richard Owlett wrote:

On 1/4/2016 5:07 AM, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 09:32:36AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

A side question to Steve, "Is this post screen reader friendly?"


That reminds me of the lecturers who say 'Hands up if you can't hear me
at the back.'


I thought it was a logical question ;}


I agree.  It can be accessible with a screen reader - just.  Or it can be
easily accessible.  You were asking whether it was the second.  A valid
question IMHO.

Lisi


I think Chris undestood that. That's why I replied with a smiley.

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Ron]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 00:07:21 +1300
Chris Bannister  wrote:

> > A side question to Steve, "Is this post screen reader friendly?"  

> That reminds me of the lecturers who say 'Hands up if you can't hear me
> at the back.'

"Smith ! I did not see you at the camouflage class !"
"Sir ! Thank you, Sir !"
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
 An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less
 until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 09:32:36AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> A side question to Steve, "Is this post screen reader friendly?"

That reminds me of the lecturers who say 'Hands up if you can't hear me
at the back.'

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Richard Owlett]

On 1/4/2016 5:07 AM, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 09:32:36AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:


A side question to Steve, "Is this post screen reader friendly?"


That reminds me of the lecturers who say 'Hands up if you can't hear me
at the back.'



I thought it was a logical question ;}

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 04 January 2016 11:53:15 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 1/4/2016 5:07 AM, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 09:32:36AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >> A side question to Steve, "Is this post screen reader friendly?"
> >
> > That reminds me of the lecturers who say 'Hands up if you can't hear me
> > at the back.'
>
> I thought it was a logical question ;}

I agree.  It can be accessible with a screen reader - just.  Or it can be 
easily accessible.  You were asking whether it was the second.  A valid 
question IMHO.

Lisi

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Richard Owlett]

On 1/2/2016 5:06 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:

[snip]

My blind friend with his screen reader seems to have much less trouble with
messy HTML than I (partially sighted) do.  His screen reader just reads it to
him.  I stare at the mess of "pretty" colours and fancy writing, with
blotches and swirls everywhere and don't know where to begin.


I browse with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 under WinXP. For my needs and 
usage pattern I

have a partial solution to similar problems:
1. I routinely surf with JavaScript disabled. I have a separate 
profile for
   visiting the very few sites for which JavaScript provides 
content I know
   I want. This does have the side affect that some sights fail 
silently by
   showing me a blank screen. On the whole those sites have 
other problems.
   Competent sites are coded to display a message such as 
"JavaScript must be
   enabled to enjoy this site." They are much more likely to get 
my business.

   Also,their design is generally more competently done.
2. I set my profile to ignore background images and sites choice 
of colors. This
   was prompted by sites with poor contrast of foreground text 
with the background.
   I also force underlining of all links and my choice of colors 
for visited and
   unvisited links. All other text is black on white. The only 
downside has been

   things like "search boxes" can be harder to spot.
3. SeaMonkey allows specifying minimum font size in pixels. Some 
sloppy sites
   are careless about absolute screen position of graphics and 
how text flows

   around objects.

A side question to Steve, "Is this post screen reader friendly?"

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Richard Hector]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 01/01/16 05:10, Steve Matzura wrote:
>>> Glad that you got it going.  That default of sound being set to
>>> 0 or muted by default is annoying even if one has some sight.
>>> It must be maddening and incomprehensible if you haven't!  The
>>> rationale, I believe, is so that you won't be deafened if you
>>> left your speakers turned up high.
> The easy solution to that is maybe set the volume level halfway? 
> Enough to hear it's working, then the user can do whatever they
> like with the setting.
> 

Who knows what 'half way' is? Maybe it's connected to a concert PA
system, being used in someone's bedroom, that never normally gets
turned up past 1% :-)

Richard

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Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 06:22:11 +1300, Chris Bannister
 wrote:

>> You would do well to read *all* of Steve Matzura's posts before
>> bemoaning your lot. You'll come across "speech synthesis" and
>> "screen reader".
>
>In that case, mails in html must be almost impossible to comprehend. :)
>I'm guessing there is some sort of configuration available, so something
>like t-prot (apt-cache show t-prot) could be used. I'm only guessing
>here, I've never had any experience with a screen reader.

Just for grins, here's the two-minute lesson.

By and large, a screenreader speakes what it sees. Applications like
Microsoft Windows Live Mail and Outlook (the Express and real
versions), Mozilla Thunderbird, and probably one or two others, render
electronicmail in HTML format quite well, just like browsers render
Web pages, denoting the presence of links and other such controls
definable in HTML. Otherwise, as long as it's text, real text, not a
picture of text (like a scanned document or picture of, say, a sign or
a book cover), screenreaders handle it nicely. There are even
screenreaders now that have built-in OCR for such exception cases as
just mentioned. They know they should speak and track things that are
in a different color than the rest of the text on a screen, which
means they can track highlighted portions of text as a cursor moves or
a selection bar changes in combo and list boxes, they report the
status of checkboxes and radio buttons, multi-select list boxes,
buttons, all the standard Windows controls, of which I think there are
thirty-five.

Where things go off the rails for screenreader users is when
application developers use non-standard Windows controls or navigation
schemes, or disable TAB-navigation entirely, because then the
screenreader has no reference point of what it should be speaking.
This is particularly annoying, not to mention frustrating, when
changing a control on a screen causes the whole screen to update, and
once again, the screenreader loses context, so, calling on its fine
command of language, it says nothing, and the user never knows what
happened. :-) Oh yes, screenreaders know emoticons and some emoji,
too.

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Chris Bannister]

On Fri, Jan 01, 2016 at 03:45:40PM +, Brian wrote:
> On Sat 02 Jan 2016 at 03:54:38 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> 
> > (BTW, top-posting makes it difficult to reply, and I couldn't be bothered
> > copying and pasting to correct it.)
> 
> You would do well to read *all* of Steve Matzura's posts before
> bemoaning your lot. You'll come across "speech synthesis" and
> "screen reader".

In that case, mails in html must be almost impossible to comprehend. :)
I'm guessing there is some sort of configuration available, so something
like t-prot (apt-cache show t-prot) could be used. I'm only guessing
here, I've never had any experience with a screen reader.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 23:06:29 +, Lisi wrote:

>My blind friend with his screen reader seems to have much less trouble with 
>messy HTML than I (partially sighted) do.  His screen reader just reads it to 
>him.  I stare at the mess of "pretty" colours and fancy writing, with 
>blotches and swirls everywhere and don't know where to begin.  


Of which we hear virtually nothing. Many of those blotches and swirls
we here as the word "graphic", and if the coder of said page was nice
enough, we'll here the alt-tag assigned to said graphic. Otherwise, we
get it very plain, which, to tell all you non-visually-impaired
majority out there ( :-) ), we like just fine! . In
fact, and this is just a wee bit off-topic, something else you all
would love to know: we who receive magazines in special formats
(narrated, transcribed into braille) do *NOT* receive any of the
advertising the rest of you all have to plow through to find the
articles. It wasn't until the explosion of the Web as an advertisement
platform that people who relied on specially prepared reading
materials came to know just how much advertising is all around them,
and always has been, in standard print media. But on the flip side,
advertisers don't realize we're not gettin' their message, partially
because of undescribed graphics, but mostly because we just use our
down-arrow keys a lot and pass the ads right by!

>But he found bottom posting and interleaving terrible.  He does appear to have 
>come to terms with it now and even does it himself.

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 02 January 2016 17:22:11 Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 01, 2016 at 03:45:40PM +, Brian wrote:
> > On Sat 02 Jan 2016 at 03:54:38 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > > (BTW, top-posting makes it difficult to reply, and I couldn't be
> > > bothered copying and pasting to correct it.)
> >
> > You would do well to read *all* of Steve Matzura's posts before
> > bemoaning your lot. You'll come across "speech synthesis" and
> > "screen reader".
>
> In that case, mails in html must be almost impossible to comprehend. :)
> I'm guessing there is some sort of configuration available, so something
> like t-prot (apt-cache show t-prot) could be used. I'm only guessing
> here, I've never had any experience with a screen reader.

My blind friend with his screen reader seems to have much less trouble with 
messy HTML than I (partially sighted) do.  His screen reader just reads it to 
him.  I stare at the mess of "pretty" colours and fancy writing, with 
blotches and swirls everywhere and don't know where to begin.  

But he found bottom posting and interleaving terrible.  He does appear to have 
come to terms with it now and even does it himself.

Lisi

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 02:34:55PM -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:
> True, but who knew that? I go with what I know most of the time, and
> what I know about Jigdo can be summed up in one word: nothing. So when
> I see a URL that purports to be the one to use, I use it. This is what
> makes me crazy about anything Linux--secret knowledge that some people
> just seem to have or know, that would never occur to anyone else.

It's not a Linux problem. A 404 means the location doesn't exist, so i
worked backwards in a webrowser until the address was valid, which was,
in this case, the main site, which has two directories to choose from
'debian' and debian-cd, under the debian directory was the pool
directory.

(BTW, top-posting makes it difficult to reply, and I couldn't be bothered
copying and pasting to correct it.)

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Brian]

On Sat 02 Jan 2016 at 03:54:38 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:

> (BTW, top-posting makes it difficult to reply, and I couldn't be bothered
> copying and pasting to correct it.)

You would do well to read *all* of Steve Matzura's posts before
bemoaning your lot. You'll come across "speech synthesis" and
"screen reader".

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 01 January 2016 14:54:38 Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 02:34:55PM -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:

>
> (BTW, top-posting makes it difficult to reply, and I couldn't be bothered
> copying and pasting to correct it.)

And harder still to follow.  But I gather from elsewhere that bottom posting 
is tricky if you use a screen reader to reply to your email.  Tricky to read 
and even trickier to do, so perhaps in this case we should be a little more 
tolerant.

I frequently interleave, and I am told that that is a nightmare with a screen 
reader.

Lisi

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 31 December 2015 15:45:23 Steve Matzura wrote:
> Now everything's fixed, up, running, etc., it's quite time to thank
> everyone who made suggestions, at least 99% of which were helpful in
> some way, if not directly, then indirectly by putting my mind onto a
> different thinking path.

Some years ago a friend complained to me that I ignored his advice and never 
listened.  I said, not at all.  I always listen avidly to advice.  I always 
think about advice.  I just don't always follow advice. ;-)

Glad that you got it going.  That default of sound being set to 0 or muted by 
default is annoying even if one has some sight.  It must be maddening and 
incomprehensible if you haven't!  The rationale, I believe, is so that you 
won't be deafened if you left your speakers turned up high.

Lisi

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:57:38 +, Lisi wrote:

>Some years ago a friend complained to me that I ignored his advice and never 
>listened.  I said, not at all.  I always listen avidly to advice.  I always 
>think about advice.  I just don't always follow advice. ;-)

LOL. I always find something in what people say that's useful, even if
it's just a small part, even one fact, that made the listening
worthwhile.

>Glad that you got it going.  That default of sound being set to 0 or muted by 
>default is annoying even if one has some sight.  It must be maddening and 
>incomprehensible if you haven't!  The rationale, I believe, is so that you 
>won't be deafened if you left your speakers turned up high.

The easy solution to that is maybe set the volume level halfway?
Enough to hear it's working, then the user can do whatever they like
with the setting.

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

It doesn't help, but it *does* make sense. If that were documented in
the Jigdo quick-start, that would be helpful. I'll write in and see
about having it added as a cautionary note.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:58:20 -0800, you wrote:

>
>> On Dec 30, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Steve Matzura  wrote:
>> 
>> I still don't
>> understand why adding 'debian/' worked for the Pittsburgh URL but not,
>> say, for the Stevens Institute one. No matter, it's working now,
>
>I can’t say why any particular mirror does what it does, but the general rule 
>is: mirrors that provide more than one distro (Debian and CentOS, for example) 
>will add the /debian on the end of the URL, so as to keep the distros separate.
>
>Hope that helps,
>Rick

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

Now everything's fixed, up, running, etc., it's quite time to thank
everyone who made suggestions, at least 99% of which were helpful in
some way, if not directly, then indirectly by putting my mind onto a
different thinking path.

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

 How's that? The URL shown in the results of a search for
"Pittsburgh" is:

http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/

How did you know to add "debian/" to the end of it? Do I do that for
any of those URL's? If that's true, I'd prefer to use a different
mirror, slightly closer, listed as:

ftp://ftp.cs.stevens-tech.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/debian/

I tried it with and without the extra 'debian/' with no luck. However,
adding 'debian/' to the Pittsburgh URL seems to be doing something, as
so far the procedure has found five of the 15915 required files to
build the final package, so I'm getting somewhere.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 04:49:17 +1300, you wrote:

>wrong url. see:
>
>http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/debian/
>
>A little investigation of the site would have shown this.

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 10:36:33AM -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:
> This is what I could get from the wget portion of the Jigdo process
> running on a Windows 7 SP1 machine. I used a pair of files called
> debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1 (.jigdo and .template) downloaded yesterday,
> and the mirror at debian.mirrors.pair.com, but that doesn't matter
> much, as I get the same thing from any of the seven I tried so far. I
> will only show the first two examples of the 404 error, the rest being
> moot because it's 404 all the rest of the way through.  Hope it helps.
> 
> Resolving debian.mirrors.pair.com... 216.92.2.148
> Connecting to debian.mirrors.pair.com[216.92.2.148]:80... connected.
> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
> 10:22:42 ERROR 404: Not Found.
> 
> --10:22:42--
> http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/pool/main/a/analog/analog_6.0-20+b2
> _amd64.deb

wrong url. see:

http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/debian/

A little investigation of the site would have shown this.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Brian]

On Wed 30 Dec 2015 at 13:22:03 -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:

I'm not exactly sure what is happening with your Adventures with Jigdo
in Windows tale. But if you do not want the bother of thinking about the
best mirror to use you could have

http://httpredir.debian.org/

Highly recommended.


>  How's that? The URL shown in the results of a search for
> "Pittsburgh" is:
> 
> http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/
> 
> How did you know to add "debian/" to the end of it? Do I do that for
> any of those URL's? If that's true, I'd prefer to use a different
> mirror, slightly closer, listed as:
> 
> ftp://ftp.cs.stevens-tech.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/debian/
> 
> I tried it with and without the extra 'debian/' with no luck. However,
> adding 'debian/' to the Pittsburgh URL seems to be doing something, as
> so far the procedure has found five of the 15915 required files to
> build the final package, so I'm getting somewhere.
> 
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 04:49:17 +1300, you wrote:
> 
> >wrong url. see:
> >
> >http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/debian/
> >
> >A little investigation of the site would have shown this.
> 

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

True, but who knew that? I go with what I know most of the time, and
what I know about Jigdo can be summed up in one word: nothing. So when
I see a URL that purports to be the one to use, I use it. This is what
makes me crazy about anything Linux--secret knowledge that some people
just seem to have or know, that would never occur to anyone else.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 04:49:17 +1300, you wrote:

>On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 10:36:33AM -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:
>> This is what I could get from the wget portion of the Jigdo process
>> running on a Windows 7 SP1 machine. I used a pair of files called
>> debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1 (.jigdo and .template) downloaded yesterday,
>> and the mirror at debian.mirrors.pair.com, but that doesn't matter
>> much, as I get the same thing from any of the seven I tried so far. I
>> will only show the first two examples of the 404 error, the rest being
>> moot because it's 404 all the rest of the way through.  Hope it helps.
>> 
>> Resolving debian.mirrors.pair.com... 216.92.2.148
>> Connecting to debian.mirrors.pair.com[216.92.2.148]:80... connected.
>> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
>> 10:22:42 ERROR 404: Not Found.
>> 
>> --10:22:42--
>> http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/pool/main/a/analog/analog_6.0-20+b2
>> _amd64.deb
>
>wrong url. see:
>
>http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/debian/
>
>A little investigation of the site would have shown this.

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Rick Thomas]

On Dec 30, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Steve Matzura  wrote:

> This is what
> makes me crazy about anything Linux--secret knowledge that some people
> just seem to have or know, that would never occur to anyone else.

Yeah, it’s a problem; but fortunately there are mailing lists like this one, 
and wikis (http://wiki.debian.org) and other resources where you can ask.  
That’s also true for closed-source software, like Windows.  There’s every bit 
as much “secret sauce” in Windows or MacOS-X.  And, of course, there are places 
you can go for advice on them too.

The difference is that in the Open Source community nobody is trying to get 
rich off of your lack of knowledge.  In Windows, there’s a whole industry built 
around taking your money in exchange for advice.

Rick

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

Yes, and there's a lot of "do what it says, not what you might think
it wants you to do" operating in the Windows sphere. I still don't
understand why adding 'debian/' worked for the Pittsburgh URL but not,
say, for the Stevens Institute one. No matter, it's working now,
downloading and hopefully constructing the large ISO.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:51:12 +, you wrote:

>On Wednesday 30 December 2015 19:34:55 Steve Matzura wrote:
>> True, but who knew that? I go with what I know most of the time, and
>> what I know about Jigdo can be summed up in one word: nothing. So when
>> I see a URL that purports to be the one to use, I use it. This is what
>> makes me crazy about anything Linux--secret knowledge that some people
>> just seem to have or know, that would never occur to anyone else.
>
>I think you mean wouldn't occur to Windows users.  The problem is that some  
>of us simply don't use and don't know Windows, so we can't predict what 
>Windows users will find intuitive/difficult, if it isn't intuitive/difficult 
>to us.
>
>Lisi
>

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

That's true to a certain extent, but in the thirty years I've been
working with Linux, back to SCO Xenix and System V Unix, I've found
there's more unpublished knowledge and tips and tricks therein than
ever I've found in twenty-five years of working with Windows. But what
gets me is when people say things like "an examination of the site
should have told you what you needed to know" (or something similar)
and that just wasn't so. Of course, I'm eternally grateful to anyone
who manages and actively participates in any kind of support list.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:55:02 -0800, you wrote:

>
>On Dec 30, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Steve Matzura  wrote:
>
>> This is what
>> makes me crazy about anything Linux--secret knowledge that some people
>> just seem to have or know, that would never occur to anyone else.
>
>Yeah, it’s a problem; but fortunately there are mailing lists like this one, 
>and wikis (http://wiki.debian.org) and other resources where you can ask.  
>That’s also true for closed-source software, like Windows.  There’s every bit 
>as much “secret sauce” in Windows or MacOS-X.  And, of course, there are 
>places you can go for advice on them too.
>
>The difference is that in the Open Source community nobody is trying to get 
>rich off of your lack of knowledge.  In Windows, there’s a whole industry 
>built around taking your money in exchange for advice.
>
>Rick

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 30 December 2015 19:34:55 Steve Matzura wrote:
> True, but who knew that? I go with what I know most of the time, and
> what I know about Jigdo can be summed up in one word: nothing. So when
> I see a URL that purports to be the one to use, I use it. This is what
> makes me crazy about anything Linux--secret knowledge that some people
> just seem to have or know, that would never occur to anyone else.

I think you mean wouldn't occur to Windows users.  The problem is that some  
of us simply don't use and don't know Windows, so we can't predict what 
Windows users will find intuitive/difficult, if it isn't intuitive/difficult 
to us.

Lisi

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 30 December 2015 15:55:02 Rick Thomas wrote:

> On Dec 30, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> > This is what
> > makes me crazy about anything Linux--secret knowledge that some
> > people just seem to have or know, that would never occur to anyone
> > else.
>
> Yeah, it’s a problem; but fortunately there are mailing lists like
> this one, and wikis (http://wiki.debian.org) and other resources where
> you can ask.  That’s also true for closed-source software, like
> Windows.  There’s every bit as much “secret sauce” in Windows or
> MacOS-X.  And, of course, there are places you can go for advice on
> them too.
>
> The difference is that in the Open Source community nobody is trying
> to get rich off of your lack of knowledge.  In Windows, there’s a
> whole industry built around taking your money in exchange for advice.
>
> Rick

+1000 Rick, this does not get said often enough, or loud enough.

There is one other diff, related to this.  When you ask, ask nicely and 
give us as much info about your system and problem as you can. No one 
here is a mind reader and knows you have a no-name pc you got from 
Ollies.  And when you have have been helped, its customary to say thank 
you, both when asking, and when replying to say its fixed. And leave 
enough context that we can connect the Thank You, back to the problem.  
That is how we learn that we were correct or not, and someone else with 
the same problem, reading the list archives, can learn how to fix his 
problem if he see's a msg that says its fixed, preferably with the how 
intact.  Then we don't use up our energy repeatedly replying to folks 
with the same problem. The fix is in the list archives.

Thanks for reading.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: wget log from Jigdo

[Rick Thomas]

> On Dec 30, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> 
> I still don't
> understand why adding 'debian/' worked for the Pittsburgh URL but not,
> say, for the Stevens Institute one. No matter, it's working now,

I can’t say why any particular mirror does what it does, but the general rule 
is: mirrors that provide more than one distro (Debian and CentOS, for example) 
will add the /debian on the end of the URL, so as to keep the distros separate.

Hope that helps,
Rick

wget log from Jigdo

[Steve Matzura]

This is what I could get from the wget portion of the Jigdo process
running on a Windows 7 SP1 machine. I used a pair of files called
debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1 (.jigdo and .template) downloaded yesterday,
and the mirror at debian.mirrors.pair.com, but that doesn't matter
much, as I get the same thing from any of the seven I tried so far. I
will only show the first two examples of the 404 error, the rest being
moot because it's 404 all the rest of the way through.  Hope it helps.

Resolving debian.mirrors.pair.com... 216.92.2.148
Connecting to debian.mirrors.pair.com[216.92.2.148]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
10:22:42 ERROR 404: Not Found.

--10:22:42--
http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/pool/main/a/analog/analog_6.0-20+b2
_amd64.deb
   =>
`debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso.tmpdir/debian.mirrors.pair.com/pool/main/a/analog/analog_6.0-20+b2_amd64.deb'
Connecting to debian.mirrors.pair.com[216.92.2.148]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
10:22:42 ERROR 404: Not Found.

--10:22:42--
http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/pool/main/o/opencv/libopencv-highgui2.4_2.4.9.1+dfsg-1+deb8u1_amd64.deb
   =>
`debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso.tmpdir/debian.mirrors.pair.com/pool/main/o/opencv/libopencv-highgui2.4_2.4.9.1+dfsg-1+deb8u1_amd64.deb'
Connecting to debian.mirrors.pair.com[216.92.2.148]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
10:22:42 ERROR 404: Not Found.

--10:22:42--
http://debian.mirrors.pair.com/pool/main/g/glm/libglm-dev_0.9.5.4-
1_all.deb
   =>
`debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso.tmpdir/debian.mirrors.pair.com/pool/m
ain/g/glm/libglm-dev_0.9.5.4-1_all.deb'
Connecting to debian.mirrors.pair.com[216.92.2.148]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
10:22:42 ERROR 404: Not Found.