Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Fungi4All  wrote:
> LXDE is much more reliable than lxqt.

LXQT was buggy and broken still a year or so ago. Now it works nicely
and looks good.
It will finally replace LXDE.
It provides a light environment especially if you can use other QT applications.
I tried it in both SparkyLinux and Debian testing.

Even KDE Plasma 5 is amazingly light when used together with QT
applications which is demonstrated nicely by KaOS. Wow!
Some people still remember KDE as bloated and slow. It was true with KDE4.


> You can have a bootable system with openbox starting at 100MB.  But
> the momment you open up a fancy browser with 5-10 tabs you better
> have a good swap space or it will crash.  You can run Dillo or Midori
> as a browser one tab at a time, but it is best to get a little more ram.

Not really. Half a Gig of RAM is sufficient for heavy browsing with
Firefox. Swap space is good to have of course but it doesn't swap too
much, meaning the system does not slow down noticeably.
The computer I talked about belongs to a friend and has now Mint 13 +
XFCE which fittet into a CD back then.
It has got no updates for years and thus should be replaced.
Programs in a 32-bit system consume less memory than in a 64-bit
system. It is understandable because all pointers and some integers in
memory are half the size.

I also have a Pentium II, 266 MHz, 380MB memory.
It is also very usable although such computers are now considered obsolete!
It was good for professional CAD work a long time ago. Why would it be
obsolete now?
It now has an old PCLinuxOS which also should be replaced.

Juha

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Fungi4All  wrote:
> I don't think it says such a thing anywhere, buster can not change
> to testing as there is nothing to change for the next 2 years.
>
> I say you cut that ftp.fi and make it into deb.debian and then
> $ sudo apt update
> $ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
> $ sudo apt autoremove
> and your testing or buster will work fine.

I tried different URLs but it did not help. Same errors about GPG.

Sources in SparkyLinux :
---
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org testing main non-free

They are Debian servers except maybe the last one.
I still don't understand why they can write "testing" and it works but
I cannot do it in Debian installation.
Anyway, no big deal. I will continue with the default values.

Juha

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:51 AM, Fungi4All  wrote:
> Isn't Debian 9.1 Stretch?

Ah damn, the "9.1" was a typo from me. I experimented with both
Stretch and the testing installations under VirtualBox.
My post was about "testing" which is now "buster", installed from:
 debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso


> Isn't Buster the same as testing for the next 2 years, give and take
> a few months?  So there will be no change.  Have I missed
> something?

I wanted to experiment about how Debian testing works as a rolling
distro. I have read some people do it successfully. I have good
experiences of other rolling distros myself, namely Manjaro and
SparkyLinux.
SparkyLinux is based on Debian testing but it has no proper installer
with memory < 1GB. :(

Now having a rolling Debian is not the main issue, it is more about
problem solving. Why things don't work as advertised?


> It now looks like this :
> deb http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main
> deb-src http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main
> # deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates main
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ testing contrib main
> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates main
>
> Who changed stretch to buster?  Why change buster to testing?
> I keep reading the responses wondering why the rest are responding
> the way they do.  Like something obvious was overseen!

There was "buster" and I changed it to "testing" as advertised here:
 https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
It should be possible by all logic. Why isn't it? Can you reproduce
the problem? I am curious what exactly happens.


> PS  I still have a VHS of Juha Kankunen and his Lancia 037!
> It is the first thing that flashes in my head when I hear Juha.

:)

Juha M.

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Fungi4All]

> From: juha.mannine...@gmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Hello Debian people! My first post here.
>
> I have installed Debian 9.1.0 buster for i386 using the small netinst
> image. Works well. I tested different desktops, too.

Isn't Debian 9.1 Stretch?

> I wanted to use the testing branch also after buster goes stable.

Isn't this Spring/Summer 2019?

> According to this page:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
> it is possible by editing /etc/apt/sources.list.
> I followed the instructions and changed "buster" to "testing" and
> commented out security update lines.

Isn't Buster the same as testing for the next 2 years, give and take
a few months?  So there will be no change.  Have I missed
something?

> It now looks like this :
> deb http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main
> deb-src http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main
> # deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates main
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ testing contrib main
> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates main

Who changed stretch to buster?  Why change buster to testing?
I keep reading the responses wondering why the rest are responding
the way they do.  Like something obvious was overseen!

PS  I still have a VHS of Juha Kankunen and his Lancia 037!
It is the first thing that flashes in my head when I hear Juha.

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[David Margerison]

On 16 September 2017 at 23:25, Erik Christiansen
 wrote:
> On 16.09.17 15:44, Juha Manninen wrote:

>> BTW, the reply address of this mailing list is set wrong. In some
>> other lists I can click Reply and it goes to the list. Here it would
>> go to the person who sent the last message. I have to edit the
>> recipient field.

Juha, that is because those other lists set the "Reply-To" header to
themselves, in the belief that it reduces confusion for users who
are using inadequate email clients.

However that is a misuse of that header (because its purpose is for
the writer of the email to specify a different email address of their own
where they prefer to receive replies they want replies to go), so this
list does not do that.

More information is at:
  http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
  http://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-still-harmful.html

> The deficiency lies in your MUA settings.

No, the deficiency lies in gmail.

On 17 September 2017 at 23:55, Erik Christiansen
 wrote:
> On 16.09.17 21:28, Juha Manninen wrote:

>> I use the browser interface for GMail. Ok, it is not very geeky but it
>> works for me.
>> I cannot see any GMail setting that would affect this issue.
>> If somebody has ideas, please tell me.

> Comparing the "List-..." headers provided on other lists may reveal what
> gmail is relying on for list detection, but google might do that too.

Gmail does not do any list detection.

Gmail offers only "Reply" or "Reply-to-all" capability, like those other
inadequate email clients I mentioned above.

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Erik Christiansen]

On 16.09.17 21:28, Juha Manninen wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Erik Christiansen
> > List-Id: 
> > List-Post: 
...

> I use the browser interface for GMail. Ok, it is not very geeky but it
> works for me.
> I cannot see any GMail setting that would affect this issue.
> If somebody has ideas, please tell me.

Comparing the "List-..." headers provided on other lists may reveal what
gmail is relying on for list detection, but google might do that too.
Once you've identified your need, a request to the list admin for an
additional header might be worth a try.

Erik

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Erik Christiansen
 wrote:
> The deficiency lies in your MUA settings. Take a look at the headers on
> the list traffic you receive:
>
> List-Id: 
> List-Post: 
>
> Without knowing which MUA you use, it's difficult to do the work for
> you, but if it's mutt, then adding a "subscribe debian-user.lists.debian.org"
> line to .muttrc may do the trick. (Depending on what else is or isn't
> set.) There, though, it is better to initiate a "List Reply" rather than
> a "Reply" (to author), in this use case. That works for me without the
> need for a subscribe line. (So no problem here. ;-)

I use the browser interface for GMail. Ok, it is not very geeky but it
works for me.
I cannot see any GMail setting that would affect this issue.
If somebody has ideas, please tell me.
I post to other mailing lists, too, mainly related to FPC and Lazarus
Pascal stuff.
I don't remember setting anything for e-mail reply addresses.

Juha Manninen

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Sven Hartge]

Eero Volotinen  wrote:

> You need to import needed gpg key.

> Try something like this

> gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-key  7638D0442B90D010

> gpg -a --export 7638D0442B90D010 | sudo apt-key add -

No!

You should *never* manually import any ReleaseKey. Those should always
only come from the keyring packages in Debian itself or your system may
end up trusting a key which has been removed from the official keyeing.

S°

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Erik Christiansen]

On 16.09.17 15:44, Juha Manninen wrote:
> BTW, the reply address of this mailing list is set wrong. In some
> other lists I can click Reply and it goes to the list. Here it would
> go to the person who sent the last message. I have to edit the
> recipient field.

The deficiency lies in your MUA settings. Take a look at the headers on
the list traffic you receive:

List-Id: 
List-Post: 

Without knowing which MUA you use, it's difficult to do the work for
you, but if it's mutt, then adding a "subscribe debian-user.lists.debian.org"
line to .muttrc may do the trick. (Depending on what else is or isn't
set.) There, though, it is better to initiate a "List Reply" rather than
a "Reply" (to author), in this use case. That works for me without the
need for a subscribe line. (So no problem here. ;-)

Erik

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Juha Manninen]

# export LC_MESSAGES=C
root@debian:/home/juha# gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-key
7638D0442B90D010
key 7638D0442B90D010:
10 signatures not checked due to missing keys
gpg: key 7638D0442B90D010: "Debian Archive Automatic Signing Key
(8/jessie) " not changed
gpg: Total number processed: 1
gpg:  unchanged: 1
root@debian:/home/juha# gpg -a --export 7638D0442B90D010 | apt-key add -
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
gpg: keydb_search failed: Invalid argument
key 7638D0442B90D010:
10 signatures not checked due to missing keys
gpg: keydb_get_keyblock failed: Value not found

---

Anyway running such commands felt strange because it is not mentioned
in documentation and quite impossible to guess.
This all means the "DebianTesting" web page is wrong. The task is not
as easy as it claims. It should be fixed.

Anyway it is not a big problem for me. I can continue with the default
sources.list.
Debian still looks like the best choice for old computer + CD install.
I tried SparkyLinux which is advertised for old computers. They have a
minimalGUI image but its GUI installer requires 1GB memory! The CLI
"advanced installer" is not advanced at all and left me with a partly
broken system.
I just tried Fedora. Even their "light" LXQT spin hogs memory and
feels sticky.  :(
Arch, Manjaro and many others have dropped support for 32-bit. Ubuntu
is planning to do so ...

Puppy Linux and such are too minimal, designed for truly limited resources.
The computer I will update has plenty of resources: An AMD CPU of
almost 2 GHz and half a gigabyte of memory. That is 536870912 bytes,
for God's sake! It is not an obsolete machine.

BTW, the reply address of this mailing list is set wrong. In some
other lists I can click Reply and it goes to the list. Here it would
go to the person who sent the last message. I have to edit the
recipient field.

Regards,
Juha Manninen

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Teemu Likonen]

Juha Manninen [2017-09-16 11:57:32+03] wrote:

> # apt-get update
> Nouda:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian testing InRelease [135 kB]
> Vrhe:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian testing InRelease
>   Seuraavia allekirjoituksia ei voinut varmentaa koska julkista
> avainta ei ole saatavilla: NO_PUBKEY 7638D0442B90D010

> Sorry, some errors are in Finnish due to my locale. I can try to
> change that if required.

Hint for the locale in an international mailing list:

# export LC_MESSAGES=C
# apt-get update

or for one command only

# LC_MESSAGES=C apt-get update

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen   - .-..    //
// PGP: 4E10 55DC 84E9 DFF6 13D7 8557 719D 69D3 2453 9450 ///


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Eero Volotinen]

Hi,

You need to import needed gpg key.

Try something like this

gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-key  7638D0442B90D010

gpg -a --export 7638D0442B90D010 | sudo apt-key add -


--
Eero

2017-09-16 11:57 GMT+03:00 Juha Manninen :

> Hello Debian people! My first post here.
>
> I have installed Debian 9.1.0 buster for i386 using the small netinst
> image. Works well. I tested different desktops, too.
>
> I wanted to use the testing branch also after buster goes stable.
> According to this page:
>   https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
> it is possible by editing /etc/apt/sources.list.
> I followed the instructions and changed "buster" to "testing" and
> commented out security update lines.
> It now looks like this :
>  deb http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main
>  deb-src http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main
>  # deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates main
>  deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ testing contrib main
>  # deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates main
>
> However running:
> ---
> # apt-get update
> Nouda:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian testing InRelease [135 kB]
> Vrhe:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian testing InRelease
>   Seuraavia allekirjoituksia ei voinut varmentaa koska julkista
> avainta ei ole saatavilla: NO_PUBKEY 7638D0442B90D010
> Nouda:2 http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian testing InRelease [135 kB]
> Vrhe:2 http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian testing InRelease
>   Seuraavia allekirjoituksia ei voinut varmentaa koska julkista
> avainta ei ole saatavilla: NO_PUBKEY 7638D0442B90D010
> Noudettiin 270 kt ajassa 10s (26,7 kt/s)
> Luetaan pakettiluetteloita... Valmis
> W: An error occurred during the signature verification. The repository
> is not updated and the previous index files will be used. GPG error:
> http://deb.debian.org/debian testing InRelease: Seuraavia
> allekirjoituksia ei voinut varmentaa koska julkista avainta ei ole
> saatavilla: NO_PUBKEY 7638D0442B90D010
> W: An error occurred during the signature verification. The repository
> is not updated and the previous index files will be used. GPG error:
> http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian testing InRelease: Seuraavia
> allekirjoituksia ei voinut varmentaa koska julkista avainta ei ole
> saatavilla: NO_PUBKEY 7638D0442B90D010
> W: Tiedoston http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/InRelease
> nouto ei onnistunut  Seuraavia allekirjoituksia ei voinut varmentaa
> koska julkista avainta ei ole saatavilla: NO_PUBKEY 7638D0442B90D010
> W: Tiedoston http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/InRelease
> nouto ei onnistunut  Seuraavia allekirjoituksia ei voinut varmentaa
> koska julkista avainta ei ole saatavilla: NO_PUBKEY 7638D0442B90D010
> W: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old
> ones used instead.
> ---
>
> Sorry, some errors are in Finnish due to my locale. I can try to
> change that if required.
> I found some post about GPG errors but no solutions really.
> I have read some people successfully run Debian testing as a rolling
> distro and the "DebianTesting" web page also says it is possible.
> I am curious what is happening.
>
> BTW, the web page has conflicting info. After an orange exclamation
> mark it says:
>  "If you are tracking testing or the next-stable code name, you should
> always have a corresponding deb http://security.debian.org <"testing"
> or codename>/updates main line in your /etc/apt/sources.list ."
> ... although just earlier it told to remove any security lines.
> This has no effect on the errors though.
>
> Now I am testing with VirtualBox. Later my goal is to keep some old
> machines alive. They only can boot from a CD, no DVD nor USB.
> Distros that support installation for such machines are getting
> sparse. Most distros have dropped CD size images and also 32-bit CPUs.
>
>
> Regards,
> Juha Manninen
>
>