Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-09-05 01:04:38, schrieb s. keeling: mutt has no trouble reading gzipped mboxes. :-) I am using courier-imap AND mutt It would be the hell, ich you have 200.000 messages from debian-user or over 350.000 messages from linux-kernel in a MAILBOX. Such things can only handled by Maildir Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-09-05 09:37:57, schrieb Ismael Valladolid Torres: Ron Johnson escribe: Good to know. For *big* .mbox.gz files, though, I'd still wonder about it's practicality. For me, mutt is as good reading big .mboz.gz files as reading big mbox files. Don't know what are you considering *big* of course... :) 300-500 MByte gz files Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Hello Dimitry, Am 2006-09-01 15:09:07, schrieb Dmitri Minaev: Dear Michelle, Still, there are some unpleasant problems I couldn't solve. The worst one was that Mutt downloads the whole message. That is, it does not support selective retrieval of MIME parts, AFAIU. I do not know one single IMAP client which can do this... Even under brrWindows/brr Also, I haven't found a way to define new message flags (besides 'important'). And Mutt's address book really depressed me :/ I use my PostgreSQL :-(=) There are some things I don't understand about IMAP search in Mutt, but I didn't explore it extensively enough. If you search IMAP, you must prefix = This is generally correct, but how do you manage your filtering settings when your mail server is on a remote server, which is almost always the case with IMAP? 1) courier with webinterface? 2) scp and an editor? 3) OK, I am coding a tool named tdmuttcourier which do this remotly over SSH... Modular approach has its advantages, but it leads to certain difficulties with too loosely coupled programs. Say, if we 'outsource' mail-related tasks like filtering, storing address book, message composition, etc., to other programs, we need a way to control and configure these tasks. I would prefer to use one place to control all these related tasks. Preferably, it should be done in the mail client. CtrlF opens my tdmuttsettings (alpha phaseand under heavy construction) Ctrla open the Addressbook (PostgreSQL) I don't think this thread is a suitable place to discuss inflammable topics, like where the Unix way leads to (although I would like to :-) Talking about $WM, $MUA or $EDITOR ends always in a flamewar... Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-09-04 11:00:45, schrieb Ron Johnson: I think I'd roll those *old* messages into gzipped mbox files and install grepmail if I really needed to search them. Generaly I have only the last 12 Month im my mailfolders and then I move it into my PostgreSQL... Only one Table for better to searching. :-) It has now arround 7.2 million rows... Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Still, there are some unpleasant problems I couldn't solve. The worst one was that Mutt downloads the whole message. That is, it does not support selective retrieval of MIME parts, AFAIU. I do not know one single IMAP client which can do this... Even under brrWindows/brr Thunderbird 1.5 does. Non-inline attachments over 3 bytes should be downloaded only on demand, provided the server supports it. Inline attachments get downloaded no matter how big they are, unfortunately. -- Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On 9/6/06, Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still, there are some unpleasant problems I couldn't solve. The worst one was that Mutt downloads the whole message. That is, it does not support selective retrieval of MIME parts, AFAIU. I do not know one single IMAP client which can do this... Even under brrWindows/brr Pine has been doing this for years. Mulberry and Netscape/Mozilla mail, too. I would say, it's a rather common feature of IMAP clients. BTW, I have found this message from Elkins in the mutt-user mailing list ( http://article.gmane.org/gmane.mail.mutt.user/7995 ): I would like mutt to not automatically download the attachement when they are too big. There isn't any way to do this with Mutt. It will always download the entire message and parse it locally. PINE might be a better option for you if this is important. -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Ron Johnson escribe: Good to know. For *big* .mbox.gz files, though, I'd still wonder about it's practicality. For me, mutt is as good reading big .mboz.gz files as reading big mbox files. Don't know what are you considering *big* of course... :) Cordially, Ismael -- Ismael Valladolid Torres Il est vain de pleurer sur l'esprit, il suffit de travailler pour lui. Albert Camus http://digitrazos.info/ http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/ OpenPGP key ID: 0xDE721AF4 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote: Ron Johnson escribe: Good to know. For *big* .mbox.gz files, though, I'd still wonder about it's practicality. For me, mutt is as good reading big .mboz.gz files as reading big mbox files. Don't know what are you considering *big* of course... :) Good, sure. But how long does it take to unzip them, and, *more* *importantly*, how often to you go into those subfolders? As for what I consider big: any gz that takes more than 5s to unzip. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE/UiDS9HxQb37XmcRAtxTAJ4+pvMxNbhIm4fnbblaMv0IsD/L9wCbBTTz 0EfCE/YstkraUdwOiYqzxwc= =gcqs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-31 01:16:02, schrieb Micha Feigin: I don't know how you do it. AFAIK unless something changed, it has no knowledge of RTL text and thus it renders it LTR and counts on the terminal to do all the rest. I can see the hebrew text but I need to read it in the wrong direction. Try:set display_filter=/usr/bin/fribidi As for composing, there is no half decent editor that can handle hebrew text at the moment, vim does it in a way almost nothing else can read, emacs can't do it at all and the others make even a bigger mess of things. Right, this is very annoying Also, how do you set the encoding of the message, as otherwise it gets mangled along the way. Using UTF-8 Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-30 18:03:45, schrieb Steve Lamb: What about it? Oh, I see, too complicated for mutt authors to make a simple SMTP interface so they can do away with the command line altogether. ^ Simpel with TLS1, SSL, asmtp, ...? Multiple Server? Exactly. They have to be defined on a folder-by-folder basis as there is absolutely no concept of multiple accounts or inheritance. ??? Yes, and since that folder isn't configured in mutt it doesn't know which personality *spit* to use. ??? Uh, the fact that it passes through an SMTP server prior to the work server? The fact that configuring the SMTP server is a bitch compared to one configuration option? # sSMTP aliases # # Format: local_account:outgoing_address:mailhub # # Example: root:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:mailhub.your.domain[:port] # where [:port] is an optional port number that defaults to 25. ONE line for the work-Mail and one for the private one. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-31 08:56:17, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 07:20:12AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: Besides, how does one manage a 2*10^6 email folder? My 21 monitor running at 1280x1024 can only display 45 email subjects. That would be *44,445* screens of emails. Totally unmanageable by humans. Maybe one pixel per message? :-( ROTFL I use courier-imap with subfolders and the INBOX.* has only 63 entries. The INBOX.ML_debian.* with 83 (the third biggest subfolder). INBOX.BTS_debian.L.package are only small ones The biggest is my INBOX.Business.* and the second one INBOX.Peoples.* In sumary I have 1592 folders and subfolders... In summary arround 7.14 million messages with over 65 GByte messages. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-31 06:59:33, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:51:27PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: I've yet to fathom a need for a 2 million message mailbox. Not to mention the support structure behind it since 2 million would break or strain both maildir and mbox. Perhaps reiserfs? I use ext3 on 3Ware 3w8500-4LP Raid-5 since several years without any problems and realy fast for my GBit LAN. Oh yes, with mbox you will not be very happy... I use since I have droped Windows (03/1999) only with Maildir which is much faster. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-08-31 08:56:17, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 07:20:12AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: Besides, how does one manage a 2*10^6 email folder? My 21 monitor running at 1280x1024 can only display 45 email subjects. That would be *44,445* screens of emails. Totally unmanageable by humans. Maybe one pixel per message? :-( ROTFL I use courier-imap with subfolders and the INBOX.* has only 63 entries. The INBOX.ML_debian.* with 83 (the third biggest subfolder). INBOX.BTS_debian.L.package are only small ones The biggest is my INBOX.Business.* and the second one INBOX.Peoples.* In sumary I have 1592 folders and subfolders... In summary arround 7.14 million messages with over 65 GByte messages. I think I'd roll those *old* messages into gzipped mbox files and install grepmail if I really needed to search them. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE/E2tS9HxQb37XmcRApPuAKCQzIjBO4nbM0LWmqhKzI7oGrRcXACfaSf3 NNuHAGHt7oT9SbW/qZN5y7w= =X55R -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-08-31 08:56:17, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 07:20:12AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: Besides, how does one manage a 2*10^6 email folder? My 21 monitor In sumary I have 1592 folders and subfolders... In summary arround 7.14 million messages with over 65 GByte messages. I think I'd roll those *old* messages into gzipped mbox files and install grepmail if I really needed to search them. mutt has no trouble reading gzipped mboxes. :-) # Use folders which match on \\.gz$ or \\.bz2$ as [gb]zipped folders: open-hook \\.gz$ gzip -cd %f %t close-hook \\.gz$ gzip -c %t %f append-hook \\.gz$ gzip -c %t %f Those are all default supplied mutt options. I've a cron job that regularly appends mbox contents to existing gzipped archives. (0) heretic /home/keeling_ all dox/archive_Mail/2006_Mail_spam* -rw-r--r-- 1 keeling keeling 5618151 2006-09-02 23:50 dox/archive_Mail/2006_Mail_spam.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 keeling keeling 399560 2006-09-02 23:50 dox/archive_Mail/2006_Mail_spamcop-reports.gz -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling Linux Counter #80292 - -http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.htmlPlease, don't Cc: me. Spammers! http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling/emails.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 s. keeling wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-08-31 08:56:17, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 07:20:12AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: Besides, how does one manage a 2*10^6 email folder? My 21 monitor In sumary I have 1592 folders and subfolders... In summary arround 7.14 million messages with over 65 GByte messages. I think I'd roll those *old* messages into gzipped mbox files and install grepmail if I really needed to search them. mutt has no trouble reading gzipped mboxes. :-) Good to know. For *big* .mbox.gz files, though, I'd still wonder about it's practicality. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE/NGOS9HxQb37XmcRAig3AJ4l5n5CWC5sxp7M1LUW3l5/U9PLKwCfYp/3 ypSAQSRwvccPf5e3zqufpro= =QSEy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 02:28:24AM +0300, Micha Feigin wrote: Right now, on my system, t-bird is using 76MB RES 200MB VIRT memory. :( And I thought that sylpheed-claws-gtk2 is using too much at 17MB resources and 38MB virtual. Reminds me why I stopped using T-bird and a bunch of others. PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM TIME CPU COMMAND 18782 foo 15 0 3360 3356 1704 S 0.0 2.6 0:04 0 mutt This is one huge advantage of Mutt. The memory footprint is unbelievably small, particularly in light of how much power it offers. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D pgp0MnWvydDZQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Email programs that work.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 05:15:25PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Michelle Konzack wrote: You read more then One message at a time? Yes. Person A says Person B said something important while talking to Person C. So you have Message A open so you can find what is referenced in Message B. Hell, I do it all the time just on debian-user. Surely you with your mail load have run into that situation once or twice. Personally, no... But then I only get about 2,000 messages a day. Not to say I never wanted to refer to a message (usually when the person replying has done a very poor job of quoting)... But I guess I am a bit better than you at keeping two ideas in my head simultaneously... I just go and look at the second message, read what I needed to read, and then go back to the first message. I don't see that this is a big deal. Very rarely, I might want to look at a second message simultaneously in order to copy-paste small details from one message into a message I'm composing, but the message I'm copying from is not the message I'm replying to. Despite what you say, this is no problem whatsoever. I just start a new screen in screen, run a second copy of Mutt, and look at the message. I could also just open another xterm and do the same thing, but usually it's not worth the extra screen real estate and time to ssh into my server. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Or rather, an ant hill. Best of all, when I do this, because the vast majority of memory pages are shared between the two copies of Mutt, my memory usage increases by ZERO (less than half a megabyte): $ free -m total used free sharedbuffers cached Mem: 123120 2 0 25 59 -/+ buffers/cache: 35 87 Swap: 196 15180 [start a new screen, start a second copy of mutt, view a different message...] $ free -m total used free sharedbuffers cached Mem: 123120 2 0 25 59 -/+ buffers/cache: 36 86 Swap: 196 15180 How does TB or any other GUI do here? I imagine all those data structures for managing child windows and the graphics that are in them must add up... -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D pgpE4lg41CuSq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Email programs that work.
Derek Martin wrote: On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 02:28:24AM +0300, Micha Feigin wrote: Right now, on my system, t-bird is using 76MB RES 200MB VIRT memory. :( And I thought that sylpheed-claws-gtk2 is using too much at 17MB resources and 38MB virtual. Reminds me why I stopped using T-bird and a bunch of others. PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM TIME CPU COMMAND 18782 foo 15 0 3360 3356 1704 S 0.0 2.6 0:04 0 mutt This is one huge advantage of Mutt. The memory footprint is unbelievably small, particularly in light of how much power it offers. But that is not a fair comparison with T-bird... what about all the other programs you must use to get the same functionality? -- Blessings Wulfmann Wulf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Co-operate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your opinion. Leave your Mark. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 01:16:02AM +0300, Micha Feigin wrote: Also, how do you set the encoding of the message, as otherwise it gets mangled along the way. Normally this is handled automatically by your terminal ($LANG) settings. If your environment is not configured properly you may have a problem, but if it is configured properly it generally just works with Mutt. I do this all the time with Korean (and Japanese, though that usually just amounts to typing people's names and a few greetings, as I can't really speak any Japanese). -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D pgpAoUtq2JqiD.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Email programs that work.
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:51:27PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Michelle Konzack wrote: I send E-mails via smtp... = set sendmail=sendmail -oi No, that is via command line. If sendmail were not there how would you get mail out? But it IS there... so what's the problem? A simple minimal ESMTP engine might be more convenient -- and numerous solutions for that are available for mutt -- but being able to choose to use a full-fledged MTA like sendmail offers the user (or system administrator) a great deal of power. And if you are configuring mail on a mail server for a large number of users, it also saves them from having to make ANY configuration settings in their mail client for SMTP. So I would say zero is better than one. ;-) You claim that the lack of an SMTP engine is a weakness of Mutt. Even though I think Mutt would be better with that, I don't think it's a weakness. In some ways, it's a benefit: numerous SMTP engines already exist, so not including one makes Mutt easier to debug and maintain, which make its overall code quality better. This is the Unix Philosophy. It also provides the flexibility of allowing the user or system administrator to choose the SMTP engine they prefer, rather than forcing you to use theirs, which you may not like at all. Or, more importantly, which is easier to set up, sendmail (exim, postfix, qmail) or a single configuration option which consists of smtp.host.com. I happen to agree that Mutt should have a minimal SMTP engine, to make this easier for inexperienced and/or braindead users. But oh, wait... there's a patch (kind of like add-ons for Tbird) that does exactly that. So I guess this functionality really isn't lacking in Mutt, after all (using your own logic)... I don't know of an MTA which runs perfectly off a single configuration option and I've run or currently run Exim, Sendmail, Postfix and nullmailer. Even still, here again you're just making a mountain out of an ant hill. When you install Debian, it installs a MTA for you, and the installer asks you a couple of very basic configuration questions which are sufficient to meet the needs of the vast majority of basic users. Perhaps it's not one single configuration option, but the few questions it asks are not any more difficult, and there are only a handfull of them, so the practical difference is minute. It lacks filtering. This is a job for procmail and maildrop Procmail, the line noise of mail filters, no thanks. And neither of these are able to retrieve mail. Oh, right, that pesky MTA again. Fetchmail does a fine job of retrieving the mail. As far as procmail being line noise, that's just poppycock. If you want to feed it dumb regular expressions like [EMAIL PROTECTED] that will mostly work, certainly enough for someone like yourself who apparently only wants simple-minded filtering. But by using regular expressions, it offers the user so much more power to filter on very complex rules and criteria. You can't be bothered to take an hour to learn how to write regular expressions? Your loss... Regular expressions abound in the Unix world. They are so incredibly useful that if you take the time to use them, you will not believe how much easier they can make your life. Tools like grep, sed, perl, etc. become like instruments with which you can play masterful music. The others are sucking more... Mutt CAN handel IMAP boxes with more then 2 million Messages and there is not a singel GUI client which can handel this I've yet to fathom a need for a 2 million message mailbox. Not to mention the support structure behind it since 2 million would break or strain both maildir and mbox. Well, the numbers are silly, but the point is Mutt will not break until long after any of your favorite GUI programs will. Please try to remember that Michelle is not a native English speaker, and is trying to make his points as best he can in a language which is not his first. Actually I think he did a fine job. Mutt's memory footprint is so small that it can handle gargantuan mail folders, half the size of which would cause most GUI mailers to crash due to memory exhaustion. It lacks a decent multi-account implementation. Having to configure every single item by hand without the concept of account inheritance is a nightmare. Here again you display your unwillingness to learn how to use your tools. Mutt's various hooks offer immense power; they can give you the same functionality as personalities, though you need to think about it a little differently. You may need to organize your mail very carefully into folders, to make your folder hooks easy to configure. You can have essentially an infinite number of personalities using them, and in addition to that you can change individual configuration options, set custom headers, and do a whole lot more, based on the folder you're in, the people you're sending to, or various other criteria. It's a LITTLE
Re: Email programs that work.
On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 07:44:00AM +0100, Wulfy wrote: PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM TIME CPU COMMAND 18782 foo 15 0 3360 3356 1704 S 0.0 2.6 0:04 0 mutt This is one huge advantage of Mutt. The memory footprint is unbelievably small, particularly in light of how much power it offers. But that is not a fair comparison with T-bird... what about all the other programs you must use to get the same functionality? Oh, very well... PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM TIME CPU COMMAND 18782 foo 15 0 3360 3356 1704 S 0.0 2.6 0:04 0 mutt 9019 smmsp 15 0 560 12424 S 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 sendmail 19462 foo 25 0 668 668 584 S 0.1 0.5 0:00 0 procmail 19270 foo 15 0 2608 2608 1736 S 0.0 2.0 0:00 0 vim I had to force a procmail to run long enough to catch by running a fairly large mailbox through it using formail. I suspect to do a single message (the normal usage case) the footprint would be smaller. But no matter. Even at that, we're talking about a WHOPPING 7MB of TOTAL memory usage, including my editor, the sendmail submission daemon, mutt, and procmail. RSS of a little more than 4MB. Oh, yes... I do run sendmail on the machine, so there are listener daemons that are using some memory too. But they don't count, because this machine actually IS my mail server, and you don't have those in Tbird. Mutt is compiled with pop and IMAP support, even though I don't actually use them (the theory being I might need them someday, and don't want to have to recompile in that event). And yes, mutt can retrieve mail. But it's better if you use fetchmail, if you want to do filtering, which can pipe the messages through procmail. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D pgpoyhUc1fRmQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Email programs that work.
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 04:00:18 -0400 Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:51:27PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Michelle Konzack wrote: I send E-mails via smtp... = set sendmail=sendmail -oi No, that is via command line. If sendmail were not there how would you get mail out? But it IS there... so what's the problem? A simple minimal ESMTP Gigantic snip So, now will you please shut the hell up about how bad mutt is? Every single thing you have said about mutt is either dead wrong (mostly), or not a huge problem for any reasonable human, or is designed that way intentionally to give the user more power and flexibility than you apparently can handle. Mutt is largely for power users of e-mail, which you obviously are not. This thread seems to have evolved into a giant mine is better than yours contest. I am all for diversity, which also means that I am a stron believer in to each his own. What e-mail clients have I used? Thunderbird in Windows and Debian, works ok. A few quirks, but nothing i couldn't handle. Outlook (who hasn't had that at the office). Balsa, no major problems, apart from it wanting to be everything, including my new kitchen sink. Mutt, a nice, lightweight e-mail client. However, initial configuration was a b¤%/, and i got bored with it after a few years. Pine, it came, it lost, it went away. And a few others. Currently I am using sylpheed-claws, and i like it, at least this far. Does that mean i should resort to marginalizing other peoples needs or wants because they don't have the same requirements as i do?? As for using procmail for filtering, exim4 for SMTP, fetchmail/getmail for POP-retrieval. as i said before, to each his own, but I like having it all in one place, for now. Tomorrow I might change my mind and go back to the one tool, one job-philosophy. So what is the point this then? To each his own, we all have different wants, needs and desires to delve into the darker holes of mail-handling. -- ___ You will triumph over your enemy. --- \ ^__^ \ (@@)\___ (__)\ )\/\ ||w | || || Nicolaus kedegren signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Email programs that work.
On 8/31/06, Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 2006-08-29 16:13:05, schrieb Dmitri Minaev: If you pardon my jumping in, gentlemen, I would say that Mutt does not work with IMAP. False Dear Michelle, Sorry, I was wrong. Two days ago I configured Mutt to work with my IMAP server and I want to thank all of you who talked me into that :). Indeed, IMAP support in Mutt has become much better than it was 1.5 years ago when I tested it last time and I'm glad that Mutt is going in the right direction. Still, there are some unpleasant problems I couldn't solve. The worst one was that Mutt downloads the whole message. That is, it does not support selective retrieval of MIME parts, AFAIU. Also, I haven't found a way to define new message flags (besides 'important'). And Mutt's address book really depressed me :/ There are some things I don't understand about IMAP search in Mutt, but I didn't explore it extensively enough. Filtering is nut a MUA question but MDA like procmail and maildrop since they are integrated in the server. Filtering is THE JOB of the Mailserver receiving the messages. This is generally correct, but how do you manage your filtering settings when your mail server is on a remote server, which is almost always the case with IMAP? Modular approach has its advantages, but it leads to certain difficulties with too loosely coupled programs. Say, if we 'outsource' mail-related tasks like filtering, storing address book, message composition, etc., to other programs, we need a way to control and configure these tasks. I would prefer to use one place to control all these related tasks. Preferably, it should be done in the mail client. Can you GUI BS handel 20.000 Messages per day? ... mutt can much more as all GUI BS together. ... Maybe you go back to Windows? Someone like you will never understood, why Unices are more powerfull as Windows and all this GUI stuff which is only there to make bad publicity (powered by M$) over the Unices I have an impression that you confuse two mostly orthogonal things -- GUI vs text mode and modular approach vs monolithic software. I don't think this thread is a suitable place to discuss inflammable topics, like where the Unix way leads to (although I would like to attract your attention to R.Gabriel's articles on 'worse is better'), but, please, note that I did not say that Mutt's modular approach is wrong. What I said was considering the number of tools Mutt uses for work, I suspect that it 'sucks less' just because it does less, which is a rather trite and obvious observation, I believe. I have other reasons not to use Mutt than this :). You read more then One message at a time? Sure. When I compose a new message referencing or using extracts from 2 or 3 or 5 other messages, I have to open all or some of them together with the one I am writing. Are ou an extraterest? I don't know what'is it, but I wish I were :) -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On 8/30/06, Matus UHLAR - fantomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. IMAP has (afaik) no support for such filtering Strictly speaking, no. Still, there is RFC 3028 which allows mail clients to control mail filtering remotely. -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Dmitri Minaev wrote: And Mutt's address book really depressed me :/ If this helps: back in the days when I used mutt as my main MUA (before moving to Thunderbird on my GUI desktops :-p) I used the 'abook' package with mutt for all of my address book needs. Abook is easily configured to be accessible from mutt and generally did the job very well. Indeed, IMAP support in Mutt has become much better than it was 1.5 years ago when I tested it last time and I'm glad that Mutt is going in the right direction. Hmm, I might take a look at mutt again in more detail now. Lack of decent IMAP support (i.e. one that did not feel like it was bodged-on) in mutt was what originally made me switch. Best regards, -- George Borisov DXSolutions Ltd signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
Derek Martin wrote: But it IS there... so what's the problem? The presumption that it is. A simple minimal ESMTP engine might be more convenient -- and numerous solutions for that are available for mutt -- but being able to choose to use a full-fledged MTA like sendmail offers the user (or system administrator) a great deal of power. What you're missing is that by simply putting localhost those people lose nothing in the deal. Not a damn thing. It isn't an either or situation by a long shot. In some ways, it's a benefit: numerous SMTP engines already exist, so not including one makes Mutt easier to debug and maintain, which make its overall code quality better. This is the Unix Philosophy. Everyone keeps saying this without thinking it. Then why is it there are hundreds of other clients for dozens of other protocols which don't have a similar breakdown in transport versus viewer and noone complains they are so complex. Sorry, whenever people use this cop out it is because they just don't want to think it through. They think that somehow mail is the only protocol in the whole internet which must be broken down. It is a religious argument, one backed more by faith than thought. It also provides the flexibility of allowing the user or system administrator to choose the SMTP engine they prefer, rather than forcing you to use theirs, which you may not like at all. Again, localhost and you lose... nothing. I happen to agree that Mutt should have a minimal SMTP engine, to make this easier for inexperienced and/or braindead users. But oh, wait... there's a patch (kind of like add-ons for Tbird) that does exactly that. So I guess this functionality really isn't lacking in Mutt, after all (using your own logic)... Not quite. A patch involves patching and recompiling mutt. The extensions to Thunderbird come with their own installer. There's a world of difference between having to install a compiler, patching source and spending however many minutes to recompile versus clicking on a link in a browser, downloading an installer then clicking on that installer in Thunderbird. Even still, here again you're just making a mountain out of an ant hill. When you install Debian, it installs a MTA for you, and the installer asks you a couple of very basic configuration questions which are sufficient to meet the needs of the vast majority of basic users. And, oddly enough, those questions fail more often then not. Know how many times the exim4 scripts worked for me? 0. And I have a simple setup. Internet host Fetchmail does a fine job of retrieving the mail. No, it doesn't. Since it has to feed it through an MTA and does no filtering. As far as procmail being line noise, that's just poppycock. No, it's not. Compared to exim's filtering it *is* line noise. # Debian-user# Debian-user if $h_List-ID: contains debian-user.lists.debian.org then save Mail/debian-user endif What does procmail's filter start with? :0 Yeah, how could anyone mistake that for line noise is beyond me. Clearly it means uh... it means... colon zero? No, wait... If you want to feed it dumb regular expressions like [EMAIL PROTECTED] that will mostly work, certainly enough for someone like yourself who apparently only wants simple-minded filtering. But by using regular expressions, it offers the user so much more power to filter on very complex rules and criteria. You can't be bothered to take an hour to learn how to write regular expressions? Your loss... Isn't about regular expressions, bucko. Let's see, pushing 10 years of experience in Perl (which looks like Line Noise), 3 of which professional at a major ISP. 5+ years in Python. My favorite tool is Regex since I do a ton of text processing. Regex isn't the problem. It is the syntax outside of Regex that's the problem. Regular expressions abound in the Unix world. They are so incredibly useful that if you take the time to use them, you will not believe how much easier they can make your life. Tools like grep, sed, perl, etc. become like instruments with which you can play masterful music. Really. And you presumed I didn't know Regex because... oh, you just assumed. Well, the numbers are silly, but the point is Mutt will not break until long after any of your favorite GUI programs will. Which is long after my needs and that of pretty much every person in existence. Please try to remember that Michelle is not a native English speaker, and is trying to make his points as best he can in a language which is not his first. Actually I think he did a fine job. Did I comment on his language once? Nope. I didn't assume anything, like you. Here again you display your unwillingness to learn how to use your tools. Mutt's various hooks offer immense power; Here's your assumption again. I am well aware of how the hooks work. I really
Re: Email programs that work.
On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:44:00 +0100 Wulfy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Derek Martin wrote: On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 02:28:24AM +0300, Micha Feigin wrote: Right now, on my system, t-bird is using 76MB RES 200MB VIRT memory. :( And I thought that sylpheed-claws-gtk2 is using too much at 17MB resources and 38MB virtual. Reminds me why I stopped using T-bird and a bunch of others. PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM TIME CPU COMMAND 18782 foo 15 0 3360 3356 1704 S 0.0 2.6 0:04 0 mutt This is one huge advantage of Mutt. The memory footprint is unbelievably small, particularly in light of how much power it offers. But that is not a fair comparison with T-bird... what about all the other programs you must use to get the same functionality? But fetchmail only runs once in a while (I use cron for that). Procmail runs only when needed by fetchmail, etc. My problem was with the editor, I prefer emacs to vim, but it starts up to slowly so I used it with emacsclient but that raised memory requirements way up by another 30 megs or so. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:51:27PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: I've yet to fathom a need for a 2 million message mailbox. Not to mention the support structure behind it since 2 million would break or strain both maildir and mbox. Perhaps reiserfs? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:51:27PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: I've yet to fathom a need for a 2 million message mailbox. Not to mention the support structure behind it since 2 million would break or strain both maildir and mbox. Perhaps reiserfs? I have an ext3 directory with close to 10^6 files in it, and it has no problem reading a single file. The app is pretty slow adding the first file, but after all the relevant data structures are cached, adding more files is a snap. The size of the average email in D-User (2006q3) is 5150.46 bytes, just a smidge over 5KiB. So an mbox with 2*10^6 d-User emails in it would be (decimal) 10.3GB. Do most mbox support libraries have long-file support? Even if they did, deleting an email from such a file would be painful in the extreme. As for Maildir, ext3 could handle that. Reiserfs could, but don't know what it would gain you, since it's forte' is *small* files, and I think that 5KiB is just a bit too big. Either way, it is the MUA that must analyze the headers and put them in thread-order, and that would just be a beast. Besides, how does one manage a 2*10^6 email folder? My 21 monitor running at 1280x1024 can only display 45 email subjects. That would be *44,445* screens of emails. Totally unmanageable by humans. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9tP7S9HxQb37XmcRAnZDAKCC01322jg2m2pB2gKR4kgUCoKOkgCdHd7M YGZVYaKFXEBgXARIwe9m0G0= =8n/x -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 07:20:12AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:51:27PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: I've yet to fathom a need for a 2 million message mailbox. Not to mention the support structure behind it since 2 million would break or strain both maildir and mbox. Perhaps reiserfs? I have an ext3 directory with close to 10^6 files in it, and it has no problem reading a single file. The app is pretty slow adding the first file, but after all the relevant data structures are cached, adding more files is a snap. The size of the average email in D-User (2006q3) is 5150.46 bytes, just a smidge over 5KiB. So an mbox with 2*10^6 d-User emails in it would be (decimal) 10.3GB. Do most mbox support libraries have long-file support? Even if they did, deleting an email from such a file would be painful in the extreme. No. mbox isn't the way to go. As for Maildir, ext3 could handle that. Reiserfs could, but don't know what it would gain you, since it's forte' is *small* files, and I think that 5KiB is just a bit too big. True. And reiser seems to have worse recovery problems when the hardware fails. Either way, it is the MUA that must analyze the headers and put them in thread-order, and that would just be a beast. Besides, how does one manage a 2*10^6 email folder? My 21 monitor running at 1280x1024 can only display 45 email subjects. That would be *44,445* screens of emails. Totally unmanageable by humans. Maybe one pixel per message? :-( -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-29 16:13:05, schrieb Dmitri Minaev: If you pardon my jumping in, gentlemen, I would say that Mutt does not work with IMAP. False Mutt can read mail stored in IMAP folders, but working with IMAP takes more than that. Folder manipulation (create/share/delete), moving Mutt create automaticaly the required folders. OK, deleting is a problem and shared folders must be created on the IMAP server, but they are tools (e.g. tdmuttcourier) to do this. Same for deleting of folders... items between folders, server-side search, filtering is the minimum ??? What are you talking about? Moving of messages inside an IMAP account is the same as for local mailboxes. Mutt support Server-Side searches (must be supported by the IMAP-Server) Filtering is nut a MUA question but MDA like procmail and maildrop since they are integrated in the server. If not, I would not be very happy with my ISP www.freenet.de which support asmtp, imaps, pop3 for free (20 MByte account and for 2,30 Euro a 2500 MByte account)... set for a MUA to be called IMAP-enabled [1]. If Mutt can simulate Filtering is THE JOB of the Mailserver receiving the messages. I have not the time to wait some days for filtering if I was for some weeks in Near-East like for 2 month... IF you MUA must filter, I had 58.000 legitim messages in 6 weeks plus more then 180.000 Spams... How many Messages can kmail or Mozilla/Tbird handel per hour? these actions by employing other tools, like procmail and bogofilter, mutt does NOT employ procmail or bogofilter, since this are tools on the server side and have NOTHING to do with a MUA. doesn't mean it can work with IMAP What are you talkin about? What are you smoking? Can you GUI BS handel 20.000 Messages per day? mutt can, because mutt must not do the stuff of a Server. Imagine I get 20 times more spam on the E-mail I use here then legetim messages which are around 350 per day. So, if your MUA is filtering, THEN it MUST download 7350 Messages to get the 350 legetim messages... Are you masochist? Actually, considering the number of tools Mutt uses for work, I suspect that it 'sucks less' just because it does less. You retrieve mutt can much more as all GUI BS together. And it does do stuf for which the IMAP server is responsable. mail with fetchmail or isync, filter it with procmail, write new messages with vim and send them with msmtp. What does Mutt do, then? ;) Read properly filtered Messages without ballast. I have: ext. IMAP-Account = fetchmail = procmail = courier-imap / / courier-mta = - So where is the problem? I generally like TUI tools, but neither Mutt, nor Pine give me what I get with GUI clients. I would be glad to see a decent TUI IMAP client, though. Alpine, you said? Hmm. Don't think so. Maybe you go back to Windows? Someone like you will never understood, why Unices are more powerfull as Windows and all this GUI stuff which is only there to make bad publicity (powered by M$) over the Unices Anyway, TUI clients share the same problem -- you cannot open more than one message. Am I asking too much? :) You read more then One message at a time? Are ou an extraterest? Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Michelle Konzack wrote: You read more then One message at a time? Yes. Person A says Person B said something important while talking to Person C. So you have Message A open so you can find what is referenced in Message B. Hell, I do it all the time just on debian-user. Surely you with your mail load have run into that situation once or twice. If not I doubt your numbers are accurate or legitimate. I could get 60,000 messages a day too if I set cron to fork a few processes a second. :P -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
Derek Martin wrote: On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 10:49:32PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: No... the rules are static, and there are exactly two of them. The user can only change the limits of the rules, not the rules themselves. Changing means they are flexible. Inflexible would be no changes. This is not flexible by any sane definition of flexible. You're being an ass. Intentionally, I might add. I'm hardly being an ass. I'm pointing out there is a quantifiable difference between none and some. Sorry that I don't got for the whole rationalization approach to debate. I can rationalize that this isn't up to some subjective standard therefore it means it's not there. Take a look at what Mutt can do, if you must know. It does not have Python, or any other scripting language embedded in it. But Derek, people say Mutt doesn't filter :P That's being an ass. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
It lacks a decent IMAP implementation. Hint, IMAP is not a glorified POP. On 8/28/06, Matus UHLAR - fantomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know, I use mutt with imap and I don't have problems wiht it. What IMAP features do you miss? On 29.08.06 16:13, Dmitri Minaev wrote: If you pardon my jumping in, gentlemen, I would say that Mutt does not work with IMAP. You're welcome. Mutt can read mail stored in IMAP folders, but working with IMAP takes more than that. Folder manipulation (create/share/delete), moving items between folders, mutt can do this. I use mutt this way. server-side search, I'm not sure here. filtering What kind of filtering? mutt can do 'l' to view onluy matching articles and I think with hooks you could also configure it to move some messages to some folders. automatic moving/copying of incoming mail to different folders is, however, left to MDA which can do that better without need of having mail client started and in the time mail is delivered (which means, your computer won't have the job done when you read your mail - it works faster) is the minimum set for a MUA to be called IMAP-enabled [1]. If Mutt can simulate these actions by employing other tools, like procmail and bogofilter, doesn't mean it can work with IMAP Also, I don't think that filtering is in any way related to IMAP: 1. It can be done and used on local folders too 2. IMAP has (afaik) no support for such filtering -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. I intend to live forever - so far so good. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On 8/29/06, Dmitri Minaev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a window shot of how I configured Edit-Account Settings: That's exactly what I used to do :( I'll try and switch to 'Other', as Steve has advised. Hope, that'll help. Nope, didn't help... Two messages were successfully copied to 'Sent'. The third message was sent, but than TB hang when copying it to the Sent folder. I have to confess, though, that I was running TB 1.0.2 from the stable release. I am upgrading right now. -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Micha Feigin wrote: Looks nice, not too heavy, although it also doesn't support hebrew (can't even see the text not to mention right to left), and it always segfaults on exit. Aside from top-posting (please, don't), I am not sure what it is in your message -- kmail, sylpheed, or mulberry? And if you say that kmail doesn't support Hebrew, but this http://www.ivrix.org.il/projects/spell-checker/screenshots/kmail-hspell.png looks very much like Hebrew to me :-). And this guy http://hieronymouse.ouvaton.org/ seems to like kmail for Hebrew as well. Best, Matěj -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 There is the story of a pastor who got up one Sunday and announced to his congregation: I have good news and bad news. The good news is, we have enough money to pay for our new building program. The bad news is, it's still out there in your pockets. -- innocent Subject line of very non-innocent spam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... Thanks, Derek, for a refreshing and informative post in this mostly dreary and argumentative thread. Being a heavy user of XEmacs for composition of documents, I have been handling mail with Gnus (which runs under XEmacs), and enjoy the ability to zip through a stack of spam by simply holding down the E key to mark the messages for deletion. But I not infrequently forget the combination of keystrokes required for mail manipulations other than the routine operations of reading, printing, deleting, and forwarding. So at present I'm using Thunderbird as an expedient when I need something out of the ordinary. I tried Sylpheed and Balsa and Evolution a while back, but each was in development, and had a few problems I could not live with or wait to be fixed. And then there is the matter of the rodent, which I hate. I've looked at Mutt a time or two, but I never managed to use it. I spent a day two trying to write a configuration file for Mutt, but I got lost in the options, not knowing what was essential and what was not. However, if Gnus were to disappear today, I would make every attempt to learn to use Mutt, particularly in view of the fact that I hate the mouse. So, could you perhaps recommend a web site or a how-to for getting started with Mutt? RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-25 03:40:08, schrieb s. keeling: I'm a mutt user myself, but balsa's not bad if you insist on a GUI MUA. I'm not very knowledgable about what it really can do (verify gpg, thread, etc), but it was relatively usable when I found myself forced to use it. I agree with your other pronouncements. I have tried balsa for years too, but it requires GNOME libs... A thing which I do not use... only plain fvwm. Greetings Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-25 10:35:16, schrieb Matej Cepl: I have used mutt for couple of years and found it lacking so I switched to kmail, which is much powerful for my purposes. Aside from being troll and self-promoting ass, what do you know about these other MUAs that you can talk about them so authoritatively? Unfortunatly I must install then a my customers... ;-) ...since you can not give a Office-Worker in an Insurance or Enterprise mutt to work. They have not the head for such MUS's. - I's to heavy. Greetings Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-26 11:30:33, schrieb Wulfy: It does lack a decent GUI... runs and hides Oh yes, running BALSA, KMAIL and such in a ssh terminal and a 486dx40/12MB =8O Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-26 03:55:55, schrieb Steve Lamb: Ah, yes, the rational response. Sorry, Mutt does lack. :-P It lacks the ability to use the SMTP interface to send mail, being restricted to the command line to get the job done. I send E-mails via smtp... = set sendmail=sendmail -oi It lacks filtering. This is a job for procmail and maildrop It lacks a decent IMAP implementation. Hint, IMAP is not a glorified POP. The others are sucking more... Mutt CAN handel IMAP boxes with more then 2 million Messages and there is not a singel GUI client which can handel this It lacks a decent multi-account implementation. Having to configure every single item by hand without the concept of account inheritance is a nightmare. ??? And How do you configure GUI clients? You must setup things for each account. You may not *agree* with Matej (or me) but that doesn't change the fact that people have the opinion, rightly so, that Mutt is lacking. :-(=) Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-26 13:25:46, schrieb Matej Cepl: mutt was never intended to be MUA -- it's like a kit with which you can ??? built your own MUA. You have to add SMTP server, filtering, IMAP SMTP: sendmail, exim, postfic, courier-mta, ssmtp, msmtp filtering: procmail, maildrop IMAP works fine too manipulation, anti-spam filtering, vfolders, and anything else you would anti-Spam is a thin of a combination of MTA and Virus/Spam scanner vfolders? - I have tons of them on my Courier-Imap like your MUA to do. The result could be really good, but when you want Why should I wait for my MUA to filter incoming messages? Why shoud a MUA download messages? I am not 24/24 online and If I open a MUA which download this stuff and filter it at the same time... I must wait for my 1500 messages plus 14.000 spams per day several hours instead of 30-60 minutes more than just simple things (or when you are not that classy programmer) it's getting ridiculously complicated. ??? My requests were not that complicated (kmail can do it easily), but with Can kmail run in a VT or on a realy small laptop? I am writing this message from a Toshiba T1950CT with a 486dx50/12 MB It is the machine I use to get my Messages of the net and download logfiles from my Customes servers... I do full administration with it. While I do this I read my messages with mutt 1.5.9 mutt it became really complicated -- synchronizing with IMAP folders (more folders, not just INBOX), filtering according to body (so no imapfilter), ??? I have a full collection of more then 100 Mailinglists (76 from Debian) and MORE then 7.1 million Message sin 1600 folders using courier-imap and have no problem using mutt... You must do something wrong! and of course anti-spam. That meant isync, than scripts going through list this is done while downloading with fetchmail and filtering with procmail of folders and applying procmail on each message and applying bogofilter to each message. You have to manage proper trashing of messages (be aware, that isync was not able work with removed messages, I had to trash them properly). OK, I am flawless human, but when made twice mistake in these scripts which caused lost messages, I decided that this is twenty-first century and I should not do everything myself. I switched to KMail and I have never regretted it. And yes, I like that I am able to read HTML-mail (read, not write). I can read HTML messages too... Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-27 22:31:18, schrieb Roberto C. Sanchez: But mutt-ng, which includes the folder pane patch lets you see visually which folders have new mail and how much. If you set your poll interval suitably low, like 60 seconds, then it works quite nicely, is similar to the t-bird layout and performs better over ssh. Do you have tried it on a 80x25 VT? How can you read Messages with such crap? And then, mutt-ng crash all the time because it sucks too much memory. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-27 19:15:07, schrieb Ron Johnson: If, for example, Tbird is your standard MUA, using it's mbox files, is there a way to tell Mutt to use .mozilla/firefox/$WHATEVER/ and for it to know what messages are read/unread, etc? Tbird/Mozilla is using a proprietary format (the mbox wile with an index file) and this is, WHY mutt can not mark it read or such. Please think twice! Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-26 17:14:27, schrieb Steve Lamb:
Exactly. I would love to but it can't.
set sendmail=sendmail -oi
Yet filtering belongs in the client, especially if that client has
multiple accounts since one wouldn't want the same filters to apply to all
accounts.
in procmail:
:0
* ^Envelope-to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
{
:0
* ^Mailing-List:.+mutt-users
.ML.mutt/
...
}
:0
* ^Envelope-to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
{
...
}
I have splited it into smaller parts and it works perfectly...
Oh yes, currently I am coding some graphical config stuff for
procmail using Xdialog and bash.
Same for a graphfical config tool for mutt using Xdialog and
bash too
You don't. I do. I rather like being able to read mail on my Debian
laptop, my WinXP Game machine or any machine with a web-capable browser and
get all of my mail all of the time.
IMAP works perfectly, including server-side searches...
A rediculously complicated system? What's so complicated about it. Let's
see, I have home mail and I have work mail. I configure my home account with
1 signature, 1 POP/IMAP server, 1 SMTP server. All the mail remains separate.
All my home filters only apply to my home mail. I need a work account I
configure 1 signature, 1 POP/IMAP server, 1 SMTP server. All mail remains
separate. All my work filters only apply to my work mail.
And? - I use such thin daily with mutt!
Mutt, by contrast, requires you to first learn how to run an SMTP
server, shove all your work and home mail through it where you then have to
??? - Wahat about:
apt-get install ssmtp
$EDITOR ~/.mutt/muttrc
set sendmail=ssmtp
write filters which separate it back out. Nevermind that all filters apply to
all mail all of the time. Then, once it is filtered out, you need to go
Than you have done something wrong (see my example above)
through for every freakin' folder and define which address it is supposed to
come from, which sent-mail folder it is supposed to go to, which signature to
For this I use folder-hook and send-hook and it works the same way as
in all other MUA's with the exception, that it can heavyly customized
which is not possibel in ANY GUI clients (maybe in emacs-os it works too)
use. Add a new folder? Have to do it all over again. And heaven help the
New folder automaticaly create by procmail and maildrop if you have
added a new filter and the mail is coming in.
person who wants to send home mail through his home SMTP server and work mail
through his work SMTP server because of sticky little work policies which
Where is the problem? - You call the SMTPD with a different config and?
Mozilla, Tbird, kmail, ... are working the same way!
state that all mail that passes through the work server is subject to being
read at any time by any upper management or security personell, work servers
are not to be used for personal mail and any work mail which is going between
two employees in the company must go through the work SMTP server whenever
possible to prevent outside companies from being able to record and review
confidential documents. So know what that means? Right, back to the SMTP
server to mangle outbound mail to go to the right server and pray they don't
No need for this.
nail you for the Received line. That alone shows that Mutt is far more
complex than it needs to be. Separate how outbound mail gets to its
destination in modern clients *one freaking configuration option*. To do it
in Mutt requires advanced SMTP server techniques!
LOL!
They're not misinformed at all. Mutt doesn't do that one thing well. It
does it poorly and requires the end user to spend hours to do achieve what
other clients do in minutes.
An you spend month to try out tonns of GUI clients to know,
one of them has the required features!
I have tried OVER 20 different GUI MUA's (since my customes
need it) but they are useles, even my customers ask me all
the time about HOW to add features like...
Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
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Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-28 12:23:19, schrieb Micha Feigin: It lacks a folders column and hebrew support ... Hmmm, I can have farsi and arabic so it support jewish too. (I have some friends in IL which use mutt) Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-28 06:52:46, schrieb Roberto C. Sanchez: Not sure about Hebrew and other non-Latin-character languages, but the folder column is available in mutt-ng. Unfortunately there are many nifty patches out there which have necessitated a fork because of the upstream developers' unwillingness to incorporate them. Since many of them are not realy tested and crash mutt-ng all the time! Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-28 00:15:54, schrieb Steve Lamb: Wanna know the sad part. Give most people the piece-together-email system that some die-hards around here insist is the ONE-AND-TRUE-WAY-EMAIL-*MUST-BE-USED(C) and X, OOo, KDE/Gnome and Cups, both fresh off the install, I'd bet cold hard cash the vast majority would be able to get X/DE/OOo/Cups running to the point where they could write a letter and print it out long before they could get an MTA/MDA/MUA configured for a single This ist the problem of a High-Power MTA like courier-mta, exim or postfix which can handel 1000 messages per minute. My courier-mta in Paris is transfering each day over 250.000 messages and it is realy overkill for a @home user. I think, the Debian setup should include simpel MTA like ssmtp and msmtp which are directly configured from debconf. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-28 07:30:12, schrieb Raquel: I don't know what your requirements are, but I've used Sylpheed for years ... since I switched to Linux 7-1/2 years ago. But it does not work with UTF-8 since it is compiled against GTK1.2 I have allready tried it to use GTK+2.0 but failed. The difference between 1.2 and 2.0 is too heavy. I can check only my Sarge archive, but has it changed in Etch or Sid? Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-08-25 03:40:08, schrieb s. keeling: I'm a mutt user myself, but balsa's not bad if you insist on a GUI MUA. I'm not very knowledgable about what it really can do (verify gpg, thread, etc), but it was relatively usable when I found myself forced to use it. I agree with your other pronouncements. I have tried balsa for years too, but it requires GNOME libs... A thing which I do not use... only plain fvwm. Ah! Another straight fvwm user. I have been devising plans to completely rid myself of the last vestiges of gnome and KDE (neither of which I ever used) that remain on my system. I finally decided that the best way was to do a clean install of Etch, instead of doing an 'apt-get dist-upgrade' as I would otherwise have done. That way I KNOW that there is nothing left. And, since I am switch to aptitude with Etch, if I do install something that requires such libs, if I decide to remove it, I know that the libs will go away with the package. -- Marc Shapiro No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What?! Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here. Boom. Sooner or later ... boom! - Susan Ivanova: B5 - Grail -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On (30/08/06 08:27), Marc Shapiro wrote: Ah! Another straight fvwm user. I have been devising plans to completely rid myself of the last vestiges of gnome and KDE (neither of which I ever used) that remain on my system. I finally decided that the best way was to do a clean install of Etch, instead of doing an 'apt-get dist-upgrade' as I would otherwise have done. That way I KNOW that there is nothing left. And, since I am switch to aptitude with Etch, if I do install something that requires such libs, if I decide to remove it, I know that the libs will go away with the package. It is probably too late but if you use aptitude interactively and press 'M' it strips the system back to bare essentials; you can then update and upgrade just the base system. Regards Clive -- www.clivemenzies.co.uk ... ...strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:26:05 +0200 Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 2006-08-28 07:30:12, schrieb Raquel: I don't know what your requirements are, but I've used Sylpheed for years ... since I switched to Linux 7-1/2 years ago. But it does not work with UTF-8 since it is compiled against GTK1.2 I have allready tried it to use GTK+2.0 but failed. The difference between 1.2 and 2.0 is too heavy. I can check only my Sarge archive, but has it changed in Etch or Sid? Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant I know this is not really an answer to your question, but Sylpheed-claws 1.9.100 uses GTK+ 2.8.18 / GLib 2.10.3, and utf-8 seems to be working just fine. - -- ___ You will triumph over your enemy. --- \ ^__^ \ (@@)\___ (__)\ )\/\ ||w | || || Nicolaus kedegren -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFE9bBZfloAJgUBW4ERAiEBAJ4j+pvwmzdYEIKugytR4o4esG04kwCeI7UT BijSM+1SYl11cV1F6UrGpKU= =R9fv -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Email programs that work.
Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 2006-08-28 07:30:12, schrieb Raquel: I don't know what your requirements are, but I've used Sylpheed for years ... since I switched to Linux 7-1/2 years ago. But it does not work with UTF-8 since it is compiled against GTK1.2 I have allready tried it to use GTK+2.0 but failed. The difference between 1.2 and 2.0 is too heavy. I can check only my Sarge archive, but has it changed in Etch or Sid? Sylpheed-Claws-GTK2 (emphasis on GTK2) can do UTF-8. Unfortunately available only in etch and sid. Sylpheed-Claws (w/o the GTK2), which is also in stable seems to only have support for i18n. Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Hi Micha, Am 2006-08-28 22:17:17, schrieb Micha Feigin: I use gtk2 since that adds hebrew support which I can't do without. Nice, if it support hebrew, it support farsi and arabic too... But what about IMAP(S)? Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Am 2006-08-28 11:11:22, schrieb Marc Wilson: Mutt can't directly show you new mail in an IMAP store. True enough. It has no trouble at all, however, with identifying new mail in a local mbox/maildir/what_have_you store. Whenever *I* go back to my folder list, new is clearly marked. Thunderbird, just for comparison, is the one that doesn't seem to be able to figure out if there's new mail, whether IMAP or local, unless you either enter the folder or tell it to check. Here's the one thing that *I* have to have... decent printing support. The disaster that thunderbird or evolution calls printing is worthless. Of course, evolution has the problem that it's a Gnome application, and Gnome developers think printer controls, even simple ones like margins, confuse people. Or maybe there's a statement in some Gnome HIG somewhere that users shouldn't be printing mail, so they make it crap to dissuade people. I don't know. I'm not sure what thunderbird's problem is anymore. The excuse of Mozilla's original printing system being so weak is getting very thin. Yeah, all MUA's are thick and have maladies... :-( Time to write a better one which have all bugs and malladies at the same time... ;-) Not this distributed bugs... Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
Re: Email programs that work.
Clive Menzies wrote: On (30/08/06 08:27), Marc Shapiro wrote: Ah! Another straight fvwm user. I have been devising plans to completely rid myself of the last vestiges of gnome and KDE (neither of which I ever used) that remain on my system. I finally decided that the best way was to do a clean install of Etch, instead of doing an 'apt-get dist-upgrade' as I would otherwise have done. That way I KNOW that there is nothing left. And, since I am switch to aptitude with Etch, if I do install something that requires such libs, if I decide to remove it, I know that the libs will go away with the package. It is probably too late but if you use aptitude interactively and press 'M' it strips the system back to bare essentials; you can then update and upgrade just the base system. The current Sarge system is using apt-get. I am switching to aptitude along with the upgrade to Etch. I pretty much have things in order, now. I installed the base system to a seperate set of LVM partitions using a chroot. Then I installed everything on my fvwm button bar (meaning what I use 95% of the time). A quick look through my menus gave me a few more packages to install. I copied over some icons that appear to be from a package that wants to have most of KDE installed (no thank you) and edited a config file, or two. All that is really left is to copy over needed files from ~/. I don't want to mount my old /home directoy since it has rc files for stuff that I no longer use, as well as old configs for packages which are being updated, so I will pretty much copy sub-directories and contents over. No biggie there. After that I should be ready to roll. Pretty painless, really. -- Marc Shapiro No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What?! Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here. Boom. Sooner or later ... boom! - Susan Ivanova: B5 - Grail -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-08-26 11:30:33, schrieb Wulfy: It does lack a decent GUI... runs and hides Oh yes, running BALSA, KMAIL and such in a ssh terminal and a 486dx40/12MB =8O Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack I don't use ssh. My box is a K7, not a 486... I have 512MB of RAM. And I *like* GUIs... :@þ -- Blessings Wulfmann Wulf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Co-operate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your opinion. Leave your Mark. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-08-28 00:15:54, schrieb Steve Lamb: [snip] This ist the problem of a High-Power MTA like courier-mta, exim or postfix which can handel 1000 messages per minute. My courier-mta in Paris is transfering each day over 250.000 messages and it is realy overkill for a @home user. I think, the Debian setup should include simpel MTA like ssmtp and msmtp which are directly configured from debconf. Actually, Postfix configures quite easily on Debian, with only some (but not that much) geek knowledge. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9dqoS9HxQb37XmcRAoE+AJ9likOVwhoIzJdnDZQAvDcx2VTP+ACdG2qA k+eUZqm0CT3J03sfWaNozzE= =iNGm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:06:03AM EDT, Russell L. Harris wrote: Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... Thanks, Derek, for a refreshing and informative post in this mostly dreary and argumentative thread. I'll second that. Being a heavy user of XEmacs for composition of documents, I have been handling mail with Gnus (which runs under XEmacs), and enjoy the ability to zip through a stack of spam by simply holding down the E key to mark the messages for deletion. That, for me at least, is the reason I switched to mutt.. I can just zip through all these managing my mail chores .. orders of magnitude faster than I used to. But I not infrequently forget the combination of keystrokes required for mail manipulations other than the routine operations of reading, printing, deleting, and forwarding. So at present I'm using Thunderbird as an expedient when I need something out of the ordinary. You could probably re-configure mutt to use something that's close enough to Gnus/Xemacs shortcuts. At least configure mutt to use mnemonically close equivalents. I tried Sylpheed and Balsa and Evolution a while back, but each was in development, and had a few problems I could not live with or wait to be fixed. And then there is the matter of the rodent, which I hate. Same here. I will never forgive mice for the time I wasted. I've looked at Mutt a time or two, but I never managed to use it. I spent a day two trying to write a configuration file for Mutt, but I got lost in the options, not knowing what was essential and what was not. I took a different approach .. namely, I stole some guru's .muttrc off of some web site .. modified what was obviously necessary .. such as path names for mail folders etc. and I was up and running working with live mail in a matter of hours. Never looked back and never lost any mail. Naturally, I have since looked at the mutt manual and added quite a bit of customization .. with this kind of approach, configuring mutt is not so much of a chore because you do it in your own time .. one small step at a time .. and in case you are stuck, the mutt-user list is always ready to help. However, if Gnus were to disappear today, I would make every attempt to learn to use Mutt, particularly in view of the fact that I hate the mouse. So, could you perhaps recommend a web site or a how-to for getting started with Mutt? The mutt people have recently done some really nice things in the way of getting new users up to speed via the MuttGuide and the MuttWiki. It's apparently still work in progress but worth keeping an eye on. http://www.mutt.org is your entry point. Thanks cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
I don't know how you do it. AFAIK unless something changed, it has no knowledge of RTL text and thus it renders it LTR and counts on the terminal to do all the rest. I can see the hebrew text but I need to read it in the wrong direction. As for composing, there is no half decent editor that can handle hebrew text at the moment, vim does it in a way almost nothing else can read, emacs can't do it at all and the others make even a bigger mess of things. Also, how do you set the encoding of the message, as otherwise it gets mangled along the way. On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:14:27 +0200 Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 2006-08-28 12:23:19, schrieb Micha Feigin: It lacks a folders column and hebrew support ... Hmmm, I can have farsi and arabic so it support jewish too. (I have some friends in IL which use mutt) Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:26:05 +0200 Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 2006-08-28 07:30:12, schrieb Raquel: I don't know what your requirements are, but I've used Sylpheed for years ... since I switched to Linux 7-1/2 years ago. But it does not work with UTF-8 since it is compiled against GTK1.2 I have allready tried it to use GTK+2.0 but failed. The difference between 1.2 and 2.0 is too heavy. I can check only my Sarge archive, but has it changed in Etch or Sid? There is a sylpheed-claws-gtk2 version Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:24:40 -0400 Matej Cepl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micha Feigin wrote: Looks nice, not too heavy, although it also doesn't support hebrew (can't even see the text not to mention right to left), and it always segfaults on exit. Aside from top-posting (please, don't), I am not sure what it is in your Sorry message -- kmail, sylpheed, or mulberry? And if you say that kmail doesn't mulberry support Hebrew, but this http://www.ivrix.org.il/projects/spell-checker/screenshots/kmail-hspell.png looks very much like Hebrew to me :-). And this guy kmail supports hebrew but it installs everything including the kitchen sink along with it. Why do I need kdesktop and libcddb1 and arts just to read my mail? I don't see what a simple mail program requires a memory footprint of 80MB and a bunch of daemons running in the background (one of the reasons I dropped evolution after a couple of days) http://hieronymouse.ouvaton.org/ seems to like kmail for Hebrew as well. Best, Matěj -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:34:45 +0200 Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Micha, Am 2006-08-28 22:17:17, schrieb Micha Feigin: I use gtk2 since that adds hebrew support which I can't do without. Nice, if it support hebrew, it support farsi and arabic too... But what about IMAP(S)? I have one folder that I access through imap4, it doesn't have subfolders and such so I don't know to what extent though (seems fully working). It has it's own sent folder and trash folder and such. On the server they apear as .Sent and .Trash so it seems that they are stored on the server. You can associate different accounts for different folders and have them used by default for sending the mail and have appropriate sent mail folders for them. I just found out that it also has a plugin for read rss feeds now. It uses MH natively but also has plugins for Maildir and mbox Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Micha Feigin wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:24:40 -0400 Matej Cepl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micha Feigin wrote: [snip] mail? I don't see what a simple mail program requires a memory footprint of 80MB and a bunch of daemons running in the Right now, on my system, t-bird is using 76MB RES 200MB VIRT memory. :( - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9hZ0S9HxQb37XmcRAlSQAKDnwidUBDACXlZDbvYtEpK8jFEjUwCgxRM/ tUNz51EuE/yEN1DvYKgq0DE= =vpAd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:51:32 -0500 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Micha Feigin wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:24:40 -0400 Matej Cepl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micha Feigin wrote: [snip] mail? I don't see what a simple mail program requires a memory footprint of 80MB and a bunch of daemons running in the Right now, on my system, t-bird is using 76MB RES 200MB VIRT memory. :( And I thought that sylpheed-claws-gtk2 is using too much at 17MB resources and 38MB virtual. Reminds me why I stopped using T-bird and a bunch of others. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9hZ0S9HxQb37XmcRAlSQAKDnwidUBDACXlZDbvYtEpK8jFEjUwCgxRM/ tUNz51EuE/yEN1DvYKgq0DE= =vpAd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Michelle Konzack wrote: I send E-mails via smtp... = set sendmail=sendmail -oi No, that is via command line. If sendmail were not there how would you get mail out? Or, more importantly, which is easier to set up, sendmail (exim, postfix, qmail) or a single configuration option which consists of smtp.host.com. I don't know of an MTA which runs perfectly off a single configuration option and I've run or currently run Exim, Sendmail, Postfix and nullmailer. It lacks filtering. This is a job for procmail and maildrop Procmail, the line noise of mail filters, no thanks. And neither of these are able to retrieve mail. Oh, right, that pesky MTA again. The others are sucking more... Mutt CAN handel IMAP boxes with more then 2 million Messages and there is not a singel GUI client which can handel this I've yet to fathom a need for a 2 million message mailbox. Not to mention the support structure behind it since 2 million would break or strain both maildir and mbox. It lacks a decent multi-account implementation. Having to configure every single item by hand without the concept of account inheritance is a nightmare. ??? And How do you configure GUI clients? You must setup things for each account. Yes, which is why I said account inheritance. When I create a subfolder under [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't have to configure the folder for my address, my real name, my signature. It inherits all of that from the account! I create a folder in mutt and I have to exit, vim .mutt/folders and add a freakin' folder_hook! Do you see the difference here? -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-08-26 17:14:27, schrieb Steve Lamb: Exactly. I would love to but it can't. set sendmail=sendmail -oi As mentioned before this is not the same and you know it. Yet filtering belongs in the client, especially if that client has multiple accounts since one wouldn't want the same filters to apply to all accounts. in procmail: ( snip line noise ) :0 * ^Envelope-to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * ^Envelope-to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] My point exactly, thanks for illustrating it. A rediculously complicated system? What's so complicated about it. Let's see, I have home mail and I have work mail. I configure my home account with 1 signature, 1 POP/IMAP server, 1 SMTP server. All the mail remains separate. All my home filters only apply to my home mail. I need a work account I configure 1 signature, 1 POP/IMAP server, 1 SMTP server. All mail remains separate. All my work filters only apply to my work mail. And? - I use such thin daily with mutt! Liar. As pointed out you can't do SMTP, you need to configure multiple things externally so my second case is what you do. ??? - Wahat about: apt-get install ssmtp What about it? Oh, I see, too complicated for mutt authors to make a simple SMTP interface so they can do away with the command line altogether. News flash, this is a *good* thing. How so? Simple. SMTP is a DOCUMENTED standard. Show me the documented standard for the command-line interface. By providing a simple SMTP interface one can do some pretty amazing things like: smtp = localhost Imagine that, there's your setup if you so desire. And you're no longer required to run an MTA which is sendmail compatible on the command line! write filters which separate it back out. Nevermind that all filters apply to all mail all of the time. Then, once it is filtered out, you need to go Than you have done something wrong (see my example above) Your example proved my point, thanks. For this I use folder-hook and send-hook and it works the same way as in all other MUA's with the exception, that it can heavyly customized which is not possibel in ANY GUI clients (maybe in emacs-os it works too) Exactly. They have to be defined on a folder-by-folder basis as there is absolutely no concept of multiple accounts or inheritance. use. Add a new folder? Have to do it all over again. And heaven help the New folder automaticaly create by procmail and maildrop if you have added a new filter and the mail is coming in. Yes, and since that folder isn't configured in mutt it doesn't know which personality *spit* to use. person who wants to send home mail through his home SMTP server and work mail through his work SMTP server because of sticky little work policies which Where is the problem? - You call the SMTPD with a different config and? Uh, the fact that it passes through an SMTP server prior to the work server? The fact that configuring the SMTP server is a bitch compared to one configuration option? Mozilla, Tbird, kmail, ... are working the same way! No, they're not. state that all mail that passes through the work server is subject to being read at any time by any upper management or security personell, work servers are not to be used for personal mail and any work mail which is going between two employees in the company must go through the work SMTP server whenever possible to prevent outside companies from being able to record and review confidential documents. So know what that means? Right, back to the SMTP server to mangle outbound mail to go to the right server and pray they don't No need for this. Says you. I cited real world examples that happen(ed) in my professional life. An you spend month to try out tonns of GUI clients to know, one of them has the required features! I have tried OVER 20 different GUI MUA's (since my customes need it) but they are useles, even my customers ask me all the time about HOW to add features like... Michelle, seriously, don't play the bigger dick game with me. I've been working with different mail clients for the better part of 15 years on almost as many operating systems and several different networks. If you think I'm just some hicksville new-to-the-net-know-nothing you're wrong. If you think I haven't played with mutt, you're wrong. Let me just give one example of my experience... mutt running natively under OS/2. So you trying 20 GUI clients doesn't impress me in the slightest. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
On 08/28/2006 10:09 PM, Marc Wilson wrote: On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 05:36:48PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Oddly enough I open up Thunderbird which connects to my IMAP store and it knows how much new mail is in each folder without me going into them. Of course this process works *so* well in thunderbird that not only is there a setting for how often it checks for mail in the Server Settings pane of Account Settings (complete with a timer), there's an extension (ah, there's one of those fiddly add-on programs again) to fix the fact that apparently thunderbird's own new mail checking doesn't work correctly. [...] I just tested TB's check for mail every __ minutes feature; it works as expected (after you close and restart TB). What are you talking about? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Mathias Brodala wrote: Officially with version 3.0. But the mentioned patch is included in TB 1.5.0.5 thanks to the TB package maintainers. Oh my, Mathias, thank you for mentioning this. 10 seconds later and one less wart on Thunderbird. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Lamb wrote: Mathias Brodala wrote: Officially with version 3.0. But the mentioned patch is included in TB 1.5.0.5 thanks to the TB package maintainers. Oh my, Mathias, thank you for mentioning this. 10 seconds later and one less wart on Thunderbird. Works like a charm! Damned shame, though, that ^F is Find on page, and so Forward is ^L. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9A1hS9HxQb37XmcRAmhpAJwMIMd+hAnWv5X/ycxxfBi2i/vP1ACeJJpD +1uPcEHwvNEQ7kwhMndp6JI= =xZsT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 05:36:48PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Marc Wilson wrote: Whenever *I* go back to my folder list, new is clearly marked. Just wait, it won't. Yes, it will. If it doesn't, then your filesystem is probably mounted noatime. Mutt uses the filesystem's atime to determine whether mbox files contain new mail. -- CJ van den Berg mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
Hello Marc. […] the mentioned patch is included in TB 1.5.0.5 thanks to the TB package maintainers. And what arcana are necessary to make it *work*, other than installing Enigmail and Reply-To-List? All of Debian's mailing lists include List-Post:, but none of them are apparently acceptable to the extension. I can’t confirm this. As you can see my TB has no problem in replying to the in the List-Post-header noted e-mail address. The patch and extension work both like a charm from the very first day I am using it. Regards, Mathias signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
CJ van den Berg wrote: Yes, it will. If it doesn't, then your filesystem is probably mounted noatime. Mutt uses the filesystem's atime to determine whether mbox files contain new mail. Uh, since mutt's main display never updated when I was on that screen the display never updated when new mail came in. I mean, real simple test and I just performed it to confirm. Start mutt, pressed y, sent myself mail. Waited 5 minutes, /var/mail/grey still does not show new mail. Meanwhile Thunderbird, in less than 1m, increased my new mail count in my Inbox from 4 to 5. In fact exiting that screen and entering it still didn't show new mail in /var/mail/grey. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
On 8/28/06, Matus UHLAR - fantomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It lacks a decent IMAP implementation. Hint, IMAP is not a glorified POP. I know, I use mutt with imap and I don't have problems wiht it. What IMAP features do you miss? If you pardon my jumping in, gentlemen, I would say that Mutt does not work with IMAP. Mutt can read mail stored in IMAP folders, but working with IMAP takes more than that. Folder manipulation (create/share/delete), moving items between folders, server-side search, filtering is the minimum set for a MUA to be called IMAP-enabled [1]. If Mutt can simulate these actions by employing other tools, like procmail and bogofilter, doesn't mean it can work with IMAP Actually, considering the number of tools Mutt uses for work, I suspect that it 'sucks less' just because it does less. You retrieve mail with fetchmail or isync, filter it with procmail, write new messages with vim and send them with msmtp. What does Mutt do, then? ;) I generally like TUI tools, but neither Mutt, nor Pine give me what I get with GUI clients. I would be glad to see a decent TUI IMAP client, though. Alpine, you said? Hmm. Don't think so. Anyway, TUI clients share the same problem -- you cannot open more than one message. Am I asking too much? :) I use Sylpheed. Not a gem, but suitable, especially with full keyboard control. I could live with TB, too, but I was too annoyed by its' inability to copy a sent message to 'Sent' IMAP folder (recent messages at mozillazine forums show that the problem still persists...) [1] - Won't even mention things like storing non-mail items in IMAP folders :) -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Dmitri Minaev wrote: I use Sylpheed. Not a gem, but suitable, especially with full keyboard control. I could live with TB, too, but I was too annoyed by its' inability to copy a sent message to 'Sent' IMAP folder (recent messages at mozillazine forums show that the problem still persists...) Uhm, not sure why you believe this to be the case. One of the reasons I use Thunderbird is because of its ability to store sent mail on an IMAP store. Prior to Thunderbird it was one of the requirements of moving to a pure IMAP store which I found lacking, even in Sylpheed-claws. Granted that was a few years ago so S-C might have it now. But no, Thunderbird, as long as I have used it (.5, .6?) has been capable of storing sent mail to an IMAP store. In fact, here's the relevant preference directive: user_pref(mail.identity.id1.fcc_folder, imap://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/outbox); -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
On 8/29/06, Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dmitri Minaev wrote: I use Sylpheed. Not a gem, but suitable, especially with full keyboard control. I could live with TB, too, but I was too annoyed by its' inability to copy a sent message to 'Sent' IMAP folder (recent messages at mozillazine forums show that the problem still persists...) Uhm, not sure why you believe this to be the case. If I don't trust my own eyes, what else do I have to believe? :) I experienced this problem and this experience was the reason to drop (reluctantly, though) Firefox. And I see (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=2451257) that other people have this problem, too. Not everyone, of course, but we must be the unlucky few :) To all: BTW, have you heard that Mulberry is free now? Not yet open-source, but already free: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.mail.mulberry.info/197 -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Lamb wrote: CJ van den Berg wrote: Yes, it will. If it doesn't, then your filesystem is probably mounted noatime. Mutt uses the filesystem's atime to determine whether mbox files contain new mail. Uh, since mutt's main display never updated when I was on that screen the display never updated when new mail came in. I mean, real simple test and I just performed it to confirm. Start mutt, pressed y, sent myself mail. Waited 5 minutes, /var/mail/grey still does not show new mail. Meanwhile Thunderbird, in less than 1m, increased my new mail count in my Inbox from 4 to 5. In fact exiting that screen and entering it still didn't show new mail in /var/mail/grey. There's a .muttrc option to specify refresh rate. Was mentioned somewhere in this big old thread. Maybe that's what you need. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9CpLS9HxQb37XmcRAnqgAKDIkgiVEBUhsPmrKzVasvAQpBdcygCgnGE4 ZuwnCD+wQ4Btw2VSd5XudbA= =XG+h -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Dmitri Minaev wrote: If I don't trust my own eyes, what else do I have to believe? :) I experienced this problem and this experience was the reason to drop (reluctantly, though) Firefox. And I see (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=2451257) that other people have this problem, too. Not everyone, of course, but we must be the unlucky few :) Ironically that page contains the answer to the problem and exactly how I have mine set up. Posted: Aug Sun 13th 2006 10:04pm It seems the problem is gone after I changed the setup to the following: 1. In Copies Folders, Check Place a copy in: 2. Select Other and then pick your Sent IMAP folder manually That is, don't use the default Sent folder which provided by TB, but pick it up manually as it is a normal IMAP folder. BTW, I am using version 1.5.0.5, I don't know if it works for any other version. Good Luck! To all: BTW, have you heard that Mulberry is free now? Not yet open-source, but already free: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.mail.mulberry.info/197 -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dmitri Minaev wrote: On 8/28/06, Matus UHLAR - fantomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] keyboard control. I could live with TB, too, but I was too annoyed by its' inability to copy a sent message to 'Sent' IMAP folder (recent messages at mozillazine forums show that the problem still persists...) Really? I've been doing that ever since I started using Tbird. Here's a window shot of how I configured Edit-Account Settings: http://members.cox.net/ron.l.johnson/Save.Sent.to.IMAP.png - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9CzqS9HxQb37XmcRAg7KAJ9X+XI6OQbRPLF3zMOq8Mv1HhP/ZgCfQOEo cB7IgSy3AIuwF3xeNTdQx50= =E8Wp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 06:51:39AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Lamb wrote: CJ van den Berg wrote: Yes, it will. If it doesn't, then your filesystem is probably mounted noatime. Mutt uses the filesystem's atime to determine whether mbox files contain new mail. Uh, since mutt's main display never updated when I was on that screen the display never updated when new mail came in. I mean, real simple test and I just performed it to confirm. Start mutt, pressed y, sent myself mail. Waited 5 minutes, /var/mail/grey still does not show new mail. Meanwhile Thunderbird, in less than 1m, increased my new mail count in my Inbox from 4 to 5. In fact exiting that screen and entering it still didn't show new mail in /var/mail/grey. There's a .muttrc option to specify refresh rate. Was mentioned somewhere in this big old thread. Maybe that's what you need. set timeout=n The default is 600 (10 minutes), which is pretty long. -- CJ van den Berg mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dmitri Minaev wrote: On 8/29/06, Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dmitri Minaev wrote: I use Sylpheed. Not a gem, but suitable, especially with full keyboard control. I could live with TB, too, but I was too annoyed by its' inability to copy a sent message to 'Sent' IMAP folder (recent messages at mozillazine forums show that the problem still persists...) Uhm, not sure why you believe this to be the case. If I don't trust my own eyes, what else do I have to believe? :) I experienced this problem and this experience was the reason to drop (reluctantly, though) Firefox. And I see (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=2451257) that other people have this problem, too. Not everyone, of course, but we must be the unlucky few :) - From your link, 2 forum messages: bkwok Posted: Aug Sun 13th 2006 10:04pm It seems the problem is gone after I changed the setup to the following: 1. In Copies Folders, Check Place a copy in: 2. Select Other and then pick your Sent IMAP folder manually That is, don't use the default Sent folder which provided by TB, but pick it up manually as it is a normal IMAP folder. BTW, I am using version 1.5.0.5, I don't know if it works for any other version. chasingcloudsPosted: Aug Thu 24th 2006 2:09pm As promised, feedback on bkwok's suggestion - answer is that it does seem to work on my copy of 1.5.0.5 [snip] Yep, verdict so far is 'thank you bkwok - you may well have saved Thunderbird for me' !!! To all: BTW, have you heard that Mulberry is free now? Not yet open-source, but already free: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.mail.mulberry.info/197 - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9C/1S9HxQb37XmcRAmpOAJ4i+2zZwqwLHiW+KxSL8yGAQ0/AXQCgj2v8 L8x68+f//CHNRTUk4+q0cHI= =iuOe -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
I did not know Mulberry was still around. I thought it was no longer under development. I was a Sylpheed Claws user until I began using IMAP, then it no longer worked for me, but fortunately kmail has developed into a nice mailer. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 CJ van den Berg wrote: On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 06:51:39AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Lamb wrote: CJ van den Berg wrote: Yes, it will. If it doesn't, then your filesystem is probably mounted noatime. Mutt uses the filesystem's atime to determine whether mbox files contain new mail. Uh, since mutt's main display never updated when I was on that screen the display never updated when new mail came in. I mean, real simple test and I just performed it to confirm. Start mutt, pressed y, sent myself mail. Waited 5 minutes, /var/mail/grey still does not show new mail. Meanwhile Thunderbird, in less than 1m, increased my new mail count in my Inbox from 4 to 5. In fact exiting that screen and entering it still didn't show new mail in /var/mail/grey. There's a .muttrc option to specify refresh rate. Was mentioned somewhere in this big old thread. Maybe that's what you need. set timeout=n The default is 600 (10 minutes), which is pretty long. Thanks. Just set mine to 120. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9DDaS9HxQb37XmcRAgRqAJ0dwFM94jGiTs2b0d/e3K3ETgnoEgCgvJ6X zDKxYjGR4hJgiTv07NqkgZ8= =9xu/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On 8/29/06, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really? I've been doing that ever since I started using Tbird. Here's a window shot of how I configured Edit-Account Settings: That's exactly what I used to do :( I'll try and switch to 'Other', as Steve has advised. Hope, that'll help. -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 04:10:34AM +0200 or thereabouts, Mathias Brodala wrote: Hello Marc. 1) when will thunderbird finally gain reply to list? I could have sworn I saw a patch go by not too long ago somewhere. Officially with version 3.0. But the mentioned patch is included in TB 1.5.0.5 thanks to the TB package maintainers. It is ? I have that version and I don't see any button to 'reply to list'. What am I missing ? -- Regards Stephen + Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good. -- Samuel Johnson + signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
Hello Stephen. But the mentioned patch is included in TB 1.5.0.5 thanks to the TB package maintainers. It is ? I have that version and I don't see any button to 'reply to list'. What am I missing ? The extension[0]. Regards, Mathias [0] http://open.nit.ca/wiki/index.php?page=ReplyToListThunderbirdExtension signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 02:36:55PM +0200 or thereabouts, Mathias Brodala wrote: Hello Stephen. But the mentioned patch is included in TB 1.5.0.5 thanks to the TB package maintainers. It is ? I have that version and I don't see any button to 'reply to list'. What am I missing ? The extension[0]. Regards, Mathias [0] http://open.nit.ca/wiki/index.php?page=ReplyToListThunderbirdExtension Mathias: Thanks. I was under the impression that the 'patch' being contained, meant the functionality was already present without needing an extension. :( I have followed the request for this feature on Bugzilla. I agree with most, that this shouldn't be an extension, but should be a basic function of Thunderbird. I wonder why the developers are so reluctant to include this without needing an extension. Is it because the majority of TBird users don't require this, you think ? Nevertheless, I'm going to try it out. Thanks for the URL. -- Regards Stephen + The Priest's grey nimbus in a niche where he dressed discreetly. I will not sleep here tonight. Home also I cannot go. A voice, sweetened and sustained, called to him from the sea. Turning the curve he waved his hand. A sleek brown head, a seal's, far out on the water, round. Usurper. -- James Joyce, Ulysses + signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
Marc Wilson wrote: On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 05:39:56PM -0600, djhack wrote: Thunderbird - Copies entire message at reply. Works fine on my box. For all you thunderbird users... My own TB pet-peeve -- when will TB be able to filter with RegExps? (at least plugin would help) Matěj -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 My life has been full of terrible misfortunes most of which never happened. -- Michel de Montaigne -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Stephen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 02:36:55PM +0200 or thereabouts, Mathias Brodala wrote: Hello Stephen. But the mentioned patch is included in TB 1.5.0.5 thanks to the TB package maintainers. It is ? I have that version and I don't see any button to 'reply to list'. What am I missing ? The extension[0]. Regards, Mathias [0] http://open.nit.ca/wiki/index.php?page=ReplyToListThunderbirdExtension Mathias: Thanks. I was under the impression that the 'patch' being contained, meant the functionality was already present without needing an extension. :( I have followed the request for this feature on Bugzilla. I agree with most, that this shouldn't be an extension, but should be a basic function of Thunderbird. I wonder why the developers are so reluctant to include this without needing an extension. Is it because the majority of TBird users don't require this, you think ? Nevertheless, I'm going to try it out. Thanks for the URL. -- Regards Stephen Please don't start this discussion. It's probably because of the old reply-to munging war. Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Marc Wilson wrote: I'm still trying to figure this one out. You think filtering belongs on the client, yet you read mail from multiple locations and use IMAP. How do you reconcile the two? Use offlineimap everywhere? Take a look at imapfilter. Matěj -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 Most of the social problems in America today can be directly linked to the failure of native Americans to establish an effective immigration policy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matej Cepl wrote: Marc Wilson wrote: On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 05:39:56PM -0600, djhack wrote: Thunderbird - Copies entire message at reply. Works fine on my box. For all you thunderbird users... My own TB pet-peeve -- when will TB be able to filter with RegExps? (at least plugin would help) maildrop is your friend!! (procmail is your enemy.) But of course it presumes an MTA (and usually fetchmail). - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE9GBCS9HxQb37XmcRAgcOAKC2zW5UNvJoZ4dkuwYg0UvHLoMW+gCgtI20 Zp8hZsotwoiYJ4rKGnK5wRo= =6Y+T -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 06:25:17PM +0300 or thereabouts, Andrei Popescu wrote: Stephen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 02:36:55PM +0200 or thereabouts, Mathias Brodala wrote: Hello Stephen. But the mentioned patch is included in TB 1.5.0.5 thanks to the TB package maintainers. It is ? I have that version and I don't see any button to 'reply to list'. What am I missing ? The extension[0]. Regards, Mathias [0] http://open.nit.ca/wiki/index.php?page=ReplyToListThunderbirdExtension Mathias: Thanks. I was under the impression that the 'patch' being contained, meant the functionality was already present without needing an extension. :( I have followed the request for this feature on Bugzilla. I agree with most, that this shouldn't be an extension, but should be a basic function of Thunderbird. I wonder why the developers are so reluctant to include this without needing an extension. Is it because the majority of TBird users don't require this, you think ? Nevertheless, I'm going to try it out. Thanks for the URL. Please don't start this discussion. It's probably because of the old reply-to munging war. Why on earth not ? If enough users have voted for this on Bugzilla, then it behooves the developers to explain their thinking behind not including it. Christ, this has been voted for, for the past 5 years or more. It's the main reason that I started using mutt and stopped using T-Bird. -- Regards Stephen + There's small choice in rotten apples. -- William Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew + signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
Ron Johnson wrote: maildrop is your friend!! (procmail is your enemy.) But of course it presumes an MTA (and usually fetchmail). No, of course, when I need MUT with regexps I have my kmail, but sometimes it could be handy (when Windows happen for example). Matěj -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 There's a long-standing bug relating to the x86 architecture that allows you to install Windows. -- Matthew D. Fuller -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Stephen wrote: It is ? I have that version and I don't see any button to 'reply to list'. What am I missing ? Well, the only thing I could ever surmise from the bugzilla discussion about the feature is that they could never decide on exactly how to do it. A button on its own? A drop down off of reply-to-all, etc, etc, etc. I don't think it was ever really said and the only reason we have it now is because someone finally made an extension for it. I agree, to me it seems just inane that it hadn't been done sooner and it has been one of Thunderbird's larger warts to last so long. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Email programs that work.
Steve Lamb wrote: Other than those pesky privacy issues. Marc Shapiro wrote: I don't want Google, or anyone else for that matter, storing my documents. I'll keep them on my own disk, Thank you, very much. Well at this rate if you live in the US, you won't have to worry about privacy issues, or for that matter individual rights. Now if you live abroad I don't know what individual rights you have left with, concerning all the current issues around. Yeah but, but, you have 2 GB of storage with Gmail, who needs those pesky privacy rights! Damn those torpedo's full speed ahead! That was a joke for all you serious hounds out their, and a little bit of military history from the civil war. Thanks to Adm. David Glasgow Farragut for the quote. You did bring up a valid point, just don't remind me about those darn MS eula's. Gnu_Raiz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
Looks nice, not too heavy, although it also doesn't support hebrew (can't even see the text not to mention right to left), and it always segfaults on exit. On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:18:38 + Pollywog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did not know Mulberry was still around. I thought it was no longer under development. I was a Sylpheed Claws user until I began using IMAP, then it no longer worked for me, but fortunately kmail has developed into a nice mailer. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Steve Lamb wrote:
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:24:00 -0700
From: Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Email programs that work.
Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 06:24:13 -0500 (CDT)
Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Dmitri Minaev wrote:
I use Sylpheed. Not a gem, but suitable, especially with full
keyboard control. I could live with TB, too, but I was too annoyed by
its' inability to copy a sent message to 'Sent' IMAP folder (recent
messages at mozillazine forums show that the problem still
persists...)
Uhm, not sure why you believe this to be the case. One of the
reasons I use Thunderbird is because of its ability to store sent mail on an
IMAP store. Prior to Thunderbird it was one of the requirements of moving to
a pure IMAP store which I found lacking, even in Sylpheed-claws. Granted that
was a few years ago so S-C might have it now. But no, Thunderbird, as long as
I have used it (.5, .6?) has been capable of storing sent mail to an IMAP
store. In fact, here's the relevant preference directive:
user_pref(mail.identity.id1.fcc_folder, imap://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/outbox);
--
Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream?
PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do...
---+-
Yes, and so does Pine. I've used Pine for several years and the only thing
I sometimes miss is the view and count of new messages in folder list. And
yes, its imap i use.
/ernst-magne
Linux-User #310283 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
** and the man said **
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
--
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Re: Email programs that work.
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Steve Lamb wrote: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:53:31 -0700 From: Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Email programs that work. Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 06:53:38 -0500 (CDT) Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org Dmitri Minaev wrote: If I don't trust my own eyes, what else do I have to believe? :) I experienced this problem and this experience was the reason to drop (reluctantly, though) Firefox. And I see (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=2451257) that other people have this problem, too. Not everyone, of course, but we must be the unlucky few :) Ironically that page contains the answer to the problem and exactly how I have mine set up. Posted: Aug Sun 13th 2006 10:04pm It seems the problem is gone after I changed the setup to the following: 1. In Copies Folders, Check Place a copy in: 2. Select Other and then pick your Sent IMAP folder manually That is, don't use the default Sent folder which provided by TB, but pick it up manually as it is a normal IMAP folder. BTW, I am using version 1.5.0.5, I don't know if it works for any other version. Good Luck! To all: BTW, have you heard that Mulberry is free now? Not yet open-source, but already free: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.mail.mulberry.info/197 -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- It works for other versions too, I tryed it years ago, but allways running back to Pine..:) /ernst-magne Linux-User #310283 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ ** and the man said ** If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Dmitri Minaev wrote: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:27:21 +0500 From: Dmitri Minaev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Email programs that work. Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:27:25 -0500 (CDT) Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org On 8/29/06, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really? I've been doing that ever since I started using Tbird. Here's a window shot of how I configured Edit-Account Settings: That's exactly what I used to do :( I'll try and switch to 'Other', as Steve has advised. Hope, that'll help. -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just had to try TB again, I just use default settings place a copy in Sent, and it worked just fine. And yes, it's imap. /ernst-magne Linux-User #310283 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ ** and the man said ** If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email programs that work.
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 04:13:05PM +0500, Dmitri Minaev wrote: Actually, considering the number of tools Mutt uses for work, I suspect that it 'sucks less' just because it does less. You retrieve mail with fetchmail or isync, filter it with procmail, write new messages with vim and send them with msmtp. What does Mutt do, then? ;) Quite a lot actually. Yes, it does hand off a lot of tasks to other programs which are specifically written to do those jobs. With good reason. vim, for example, is an extremely powerful editor with a relatively small memory footprint. It is superb at what it does. Why should mutt try to re-invent the wheel, or using your philosophy, the world? If the mutt developers tried to write a built-in editor to edit mail, it would be far less powerful than vim, would make mutt's code an order of magnitude more complex, and most importantly would be a monumental waste of time. If they did the job well, what they would end up with is... vim (or emacs). Only, embedded in the mailer. The same goes for procmail, with regard to filters. Instead, Mutt follows the Unix Philosophy: do one well-defined job, and do it well. And it does that. So, what does mutt do? It provides an excellent terminal-based user interface to read, sort, and (visually) organize and filter mail. It does an excellent job of searching through mail in individual folders using regular expressions. It does a pretty good job of managing multiple profiles using its various hooks... It's very smart about honoring various recipient headers, so you (usually) don't have to think about how to reply to mail to send it to the right people... Just press the right key for what you want to do. It allows me to change configuration settings on a per-folder basis. It allows me to use different colors to highlight mail from specific people, or mail about certain topics, or identify some criteria based on information in virtually any header in the message. It has good support for mailing lists, and excellent support for PGP messages (much better than pine, unless recent updates support the many new (i.e. not 20 years old) standards regarding e-mail encryption). A lot of GUI mailers don't get any of this right, or simply can't do it at all. And there's a lot of stuff it does that I don't have time to mention... Do I think mutt needs mail filters? Nope. I use fetchmail and procmail, and would continue to do so even if filters were available in my client, because those tools are the best BAR NONE at what they do. My coworkers are always complaining about their Outlook/Evolution filters losing mail to their spam filters... I just laugh. Does Mutt have weaknesses? Of course. But most of the ones people have highlighted in this thread either represent a misunderstanding of how mutt does things, and why it does them that way (i.e. they don't understand the Unix Philosophy and why that's a Good Thing); or they're just plain wrong. Mutt has vast power as a MUA, but along with that power comes the price of having to learn how to use it. A lot of people who complain that mutt can't do X simply haven't learned how. I generally like TUI tools, but neither Mutt, nor Pine give me what I get with GUI clients. You're right on this one, though actually Brendan Cully has done a tremendous job of improving the IMAP code over the last year or so. I haven't used IMAP in a very long time myself, so I can't speak to what improvements have been made; but I know that his changes have made a lot of people very happy. And I agree about having a basic SMTP engine too; MTAs can be a pain to set up even for seasoned administrators... A user should not have to go through all that just to forward outgoing mail to his ISP; and even if there are some small ones out there that aren't too hard to set up, many users don't have the option, because they don't control their mail system. That's an argument that comes up often... Anyway, TUI clients share the same problem -- you cannot open more than one message. Am I asking too much? :) Er... sure they can. 1. Start screen, or two xterms, or whatever. 2. run one copy of mutt, view your 1st message. 3. run another copy of mutt... ;-) Want more than that from a terminal-based MUA? Then yeah, you are definitely asking too much. Besides... you can only read one mail at a time, so what's the big deal? :) [No, this is not a serious question.] [1] - Won't even mention things like storing non-mail items in IMAP folders :) Hmph. They're called mail folders for a reason. They're for... storing mail. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D pgpy9FSdPXtdd.pgp Description: PGP signature
