Hi,
Debian package respects all sysadmin choices. We do not overwrite them.
If not, that is a serious bug.
Some careful and respectful questining to keep this promise seem to
annoy some people who have not found typical work around steps.
(Besides, there were some bug on apatch2 package.)
On
Hi,
On Sat, Jan 01, 2011 at 03:29:21PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
I know you know very well on Debian system but may not be old enough to
use dselect with dpkg-ftp etc :-) So some historic comments differ from
what I thought.
On Vi, 31 dec 10, 12:24:34, Bob Proulx wrote:
Andrei Popescu
The rcN.d format is an excellent design if we can just keep insserv
from mangling it.
As I haven't converted one of my systems to dependency based boot yet,
there still has to be some way to keep the old way. No idea why there
is no documented way to switch that on...
It could be that
On Sun January 2 2011 13:59:01 Stefan Fritsch wrote:
The rcN.d format is an excellent design if we can just keep insserv
from mangling it.
As I haven't converted one of my systems to dependency based boot yet,
there still has to be some way to keep the old way. No idea why there
is no
On Vi, 31 dec 10, 12:24:34, Bob Proulx wrote:
Andrei Popescu wrote:
Bob Proulx wrote:
Mike Bird wrote:
But then they abuse the Debian packaging system by requiring
instead of recommending unnecessary packages so that people are
forced to use their silly hacks.
The new APT
On Vi, 31 dec 10, 13:13:39, Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri December 31 2010 10:51:18 Arthur Machlas wrote:
As for all the talk of losing years of wisdom and bug squashing and
what-not, I'm not really sure that's the case, but a debate about the
worthiness of insserv as a successor to all the Snn
On Sat January 1 2011 06:00:54 Andrei Popescu wrote:
I'm sure you are aware that insserv is doing the (re)ordering based on
the LSB headers in each initscript. Don't you think your rant is
exaggerated?
Please read the thread. I don't think there is merit
in repeating it here.
--Mike Bird
On Thu December 30 2010 22:27:33 Arthur Machlas wrote:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=608437
Wow, that was fast! Thank you all!
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On Thu December 30 2010 22:29:00 Arthur Machlas wrote:
Have you considered file-rc?
file-rc is on our list as a possible fallback but the key seems to
be to recover and then retain the combined intelligence that Debian
Developers have encoded into those Snn/Knn values over the years.
The rcN.d
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
On Thu December 30 2010 22:29:00 Arthur Machlas wrote:
Have you considered file-rc?
file-rc is on our list as a possible fallback but the key seems to
be to recover and then retain the combined intelligence that Debian
On Fri December 31 2010 06:32:27 Tom H wrote:
file-rc's moving towards using dependency-based boot:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=573004
It's bad enough that script kiddies insist on breaking things
they don't understand. But then they abuse the Debian packaging
system by
Mike Bird wrote:
But then they abuse the Debian packaging system by requiring
instead of recommending unnecessary packages so that people are
forced to use their silly hacks.
The new APT default is that Recommends are the same as Requires and so
a lot of unnecessary packages are now installed.
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote:
Mike Bird wrote:
But then they abuse the Debian packaging system by requiring
instead of recommending unnecessary packages so that people are
forced to use their silly hacks.
The new APT default is that Recommends are the
On Vi, 31 dec 10, 11:35:26, Bob Proulx wrote:
Mike Bird wrote:
But then they abuse the Debian packaging system by requiring
instead of recommending unnecessary packages so that people are
forced to use their silly hacks.
The new APT default is that Recommends are the same as Requires and
Andrei Popescu wrote:
Bob Proulx wrote:
Mike Bird wrote:
But then they abuse the Debian packaging system by requiring
instead of recommending unnecessary packages so that people are
forced to use their silly hacks.
The new APT default is that Recommends are the same as Requires
On Fri December 31 2010 11:24:34 Bob Proulx wrote:
The question is really one of philosophy. Do you start with a good
foundation and then build upward? Or do you start with a large fully
filled out structure and then remove the extraneous material?
Harmful RECOMMENDS can at least be removed
On Fri December 31 2010 10:51:18 Arthur Machlas wrote:
As for all the talk of losing years of wisdom and bug squashing and
what-not, I'm not really sure that's the case, but a debate about the
worthiness of insserv as a successor to all the Snn Knn links is
probably better suited to another
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 01:13:39PM -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
[...]
The script kiddies are those who abused the Debian packaging
system to make sysv-rc REQUIRE the harmful and unnecessary
insserv.
By the way, apt-cache shows me for sysv-rc:
Priority: required
Depends: ... insserv ...
And
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 21:16:06 +0100, Klistvud wrote:
Dne, 29. 12. 2010 20:29:38 je Camaleón napisal(a):
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:12:45 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 01:43:09 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:37:48 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
The question is not whether
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:08:10 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 11:29:38 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:12:45 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 01:43:09 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:37:48 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
The question is not whether the
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:42 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote:
It's not my fault that you don't know how to debug a non-booting service
nor that you don't know how insserv and sys-rc works. It's neither my
fault that you don't want to help your distribution to correct the lacks
you are
On Thu December 30 2010 03:42:45 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:08:10 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
I have not lied about your postings. I started this thread
by posting a solution[1] and by asking if there is a better solution.
And I told you another way to get the job done (in fact, if
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
Your solution is to edit /etc/init.d/apache2. Your solution requires
manual intervention on every apache2 upgrade.
Apparently not:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/12/msg00550.html
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On Thu December 30 2010 12:13:03 Tom H wrote:
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
Your solution is to edit /etc/init.d/apache2. Your solution requires
manual intervention on every apache2 upgrade.
Apparently not:
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
On Thu December 30 2010 12:13:03 Tom H wrote:
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
Your solution is to edit /etc/init.d/apache2. Your solution requires
manual intervention on every
On Thu December 30 2010 16:24:19 Tom H wrote:
As an aside, you refer to the pre-insserv setup as Snn/Knn startup
mechanism but insserv doesn't deviate from that style. insserv
creates the Snn/Knn symlinks dynamically in an order determined by a
set of dependencies. pre-insserv the symlinks'
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
On Thu December 30 2010 16:24:19 Tom H wrote:
As an aside, you refer to the pre-insserv setup as Snn/Knn startup
mechanism but insserv doesn't deviate from that style. insserv
creates the Snn/Knn symlinks dynamically in
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Arthur Machlas
arthur.mach...@gmail.com wrote:
We're trying to figure out the cleanest way to stop insserv from
throwing away all the Snn/Knn information that Debian Developers
have created over the years. Then we'll attempt to reset the
Snn/Knn to those
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 12:07:30 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue December 28 2010 10:56:48 Camaleón wrote:
JFYI:
apache2: fails to start with dependency based boot if DNS is required
by configuration
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=606334
Thank you for the link but the bug is
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
On Tue December 28 2010 01:31:50 Camaleón wrote:
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:10:23 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
Is it possible to go back to the old system?
If you mean how to disable dependency booting yes, you can disable it
On Wed December 29 2010 00:13:04 Camaleón wrote:
AFAIK, booting scripts have been rewrited to play with dependency booting
and provided this is new for Squeeze, I would expect some glitches, but
nothing that cannot be solved.
The question is not whether the problem can be solved. People can
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:37:48 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 00:13:04 Camaleón wrote:
AFAIK, booting scripts have been rewrited to play with dependency
booting and provided this is new for Squeeze, I would expect some
glitches, but nothing that cannot be solved.
The
(Sigh) So you don't know anything about insserv? Why guess?
That only makes things worse. People may find your bogus
suggestions in the archive and mistakenly act on them.
Please let people who understand insserv answer the questions.
Thanks,
--Mike
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On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:51:34 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
(Sigh) So you don't know anything about insserv? Why guess? That only
makes things worse. People may find your bogus suggestions in the
archive and mistakenly act on them.
No, I know nothing about complains.
Please let people who
On Wed December 29 2010 02:03:10 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:51:34 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
Please let people who understand insserv answer the questions.
Nothing impedes people from replying.
Unfortunately that is true. You can put out a lot
of bad information and harm Debian.
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 02:16:20 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 02:03:10 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:51:34 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
Please let people who understand insserv answer the questions.
Nothing impedes people from replying.
Unfortunately that is true. You
Hi,
I am not developer of insserve ...
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 01:37:48AM -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 00:13:04 Camaleón wrote:
...
Thanks for looking into this. I still fail to see why saving half a
second a year on server booting is worth inflecting days of drudgery
on
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 6:53 AM, Osamu Aoki os...@debian.org wrote:
Hi,
I am not developer of insserve ...
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 01:37:48AM -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 00:13:04 Camaleón wrote:
...
Thanks for looking into this. I still fail to see why saving half a
On Wed December 29 2010 01:43:09 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:37:48 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
The question is not whether the problem can be solved.
Then what do you want? Just complain?
I STARTED this thread by posting a solution[1]. And I asked if
there is a better solution.
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:12:45 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 01:43:09 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:37:48 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
The question is not whether the problem can be solved.
Then what do you want? Just complain?
I STARTED this thread by posting a
On Wed December 29 2010 11:29:38 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:12:45 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 01:43:09 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:37:48 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
The question is not whether the problem can be solved.
Then what do you want? Just
Dne, 29. 12. 2010 20:29:38 je Camaleón napisal(a):
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:12:45 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Wed December 29 2010 01:43:09 Camaleón wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:37:48 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
The question is not whether the problem can be solved.
Then what do you want? Just
On Mon December 27 2010 23:55:00 Arthur Machlas wrote:
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
If the Apache configuration needs DNS to start, Apache silently
and without logging anything fails to start in Squeeze. This
used to work correctly under the old
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:10:23 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Mon December 27 2010 23:55:00 Arthur Machlas wrote:
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
If the Apache configuration needs DNS to start, Apache silently and
without logging anything fails to start in Squeeze. This used to
On Tue December 28 2010 01:31:50 Camaleón wrote:
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:10:23 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
Is it possible to go back to the old system?
If you mean how to disable dependency booting yes, you can disable it
to get the old behaviour, but you will still have to ensure bind9 is
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 10:06:58 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
On Tue December 28 2010 01:31:50 Camaleón wrote:
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:10:23 -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
Is it possible to go back to the old system?
If you mean how to disable dependency booting yes, you can disable it
to get the old
On Tue December 28 2010 10:56:48 Camaleón wrote:
JFYI:
apache2: fails to start with dependency based boot if DNS is required by
configuration
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=606334
Thank you for the link but the bug is not in Apache. The
bug is the poorly thought out and
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 3:10 AM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
On Mon December 27 2010 23:55:00 Arthur Machlas wrote:
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
If the Apache configuration needs DNS to start, Apache silently
and without logging
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
If the Apache configuration needs DNS to start, Apache silently
and without logging anything fails to start in Squeeze. This
used to work correctly under the old startup mechanism in Lenny.
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