1) as we know everyone can scan for viruses and for spam locally on
their pc
2) so we tell them that when they do it on the server they save
bandwidth and cost plus they don't have to waste time on setting it up
locally and maintain it
3) so we charge a (small) per user fee per month for virus
Correction David B, Postini offers a great product, it's Declude with the
product that is questionable.
We switched most of our services over to Postini and have been glad to avoid
the bugs, crashes, and huge price hikes of Declude. In comparison, as our
Postini volume grows, our costs are
Hi Gary,
What I find particularly amusing is the line Restrictions apply to
service providers.
If there is anyone subscribed to this mailing list who is not a service
provider,
please raise your hand.
Hand !!!
We are a school.
Met vriendelijke groet,
Bonno Bloksma
hoofd systeembeheer
Today is July 19, but i can still not see any reference to the new Commtouch
offering on My Account.
There was also mentioned previously that there should be the pricing for
upgrading to Declude 4.x, but not with my login.
Now i cannot even download the last update for declude 3.x. I have an
In my account they are on the main logon page at the bottom left all the way
down (below the fold).
Darrell
Check out http://www.invariantsystems.com for utilities for Declude And
Imail. IMail/Declude Overflow Queue
Also, to piggy back on this - we would like to know exactly how this works.
Is something downloaded to your system is it DNS based etc?
Darrell
Check out http://www.invariantsystems.com for utilities for Declude And
Imail.
Title: Message
Kevin,
Mainly because in order to get other types of
business that may bring revenue (hosting, etc) this type of service is
expected. Look at any ISP/hosting provider that is offering $5.00 a month
hosting plans this is what everyone competes with.
Could you imagine
I am not in the office today - if this is an emergency, please contact Julie
Guenterberg at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Otherwise I will reply to your message when I
return. Terry.
---
This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To
unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
If we could get away with it, we wouldn't offer any e-mail service.
There is more tech support overhead and other costs with e-mail than
everything else combined. Unfortunately, not offering e-mail and
Spam/Virus protection is not an option, from a competitive
stand-point.
Tuesday, July 18,
Gary,
4.3 Release notes: Added CT and a Global variable being initialized more
than once has been corrected.
You are correct in your statement, if you do not want to join our Service
Provide Program you can choose not too participate.
David B
www.declude.com
-Original Message-
From:
Thanks David
Is the global variable correction important enough to upgrade from 4.2.20?
Harry Vanderzand
inTown Internet Computer Services
519-741-1222
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Barker
Sent: Wednesday, July 19,
Don,
in this case tells its most active customers that they should effectively
refrain from discussing a subject
Let me reiterate just for those who may have missed my earlier post.
Be reminded that the board is designed for comments on performance,
function, features of our software. If you
It's not a big issue, it is something that occurred on very rare occasions.
It is really minor.
David
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry
Vanderzand
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:35 AM
To: declude.junkmail@declude.com
Subject: RE:
Glenn,
Many of the bugs that are in 1.81 have been fixed with further releases, the
reason you do not see the bugs is that they are not obvious under the single
application, ie. Declude.exe when it crashes it just drops the message back
in the spool whereas with the service these messages are
Be reminded that the board is designed for comments on performance,
function, features of our software. If you have any questions or would
David,
I have asked as well as submitted a inquiry to support and others have asked
Is their a CommTouch trial
How does it work etc
and none of
Robert,
I did not say that Postini offered a poor service it was a comment from
Matt. My point was that the market is huge and Declude with our existing
customer base can be successful with a very very small % of this market. The
difference is how we go about obtaining our share, this is part of
Darrell,
I am getting there :)
David
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darrell
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:00 AM
To: declude.junkmail@declude.com
Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 4.3
Be reminded that the
Darrell,
It is not a DNS test. Commtouch analyzes large volumes of Internet traffic
in real time. New spam and Malware outbreaks are identified as soon as they
emerge, and recorded in the Commtouch Detection Center. The Commtouch Engine
in Declude queries the Commtouch Detection Center and
David Barker wrote:
I did not say that Postini offered a poor service it was a comment from
Matt.
Actually, that was a private comment from and old conversation with me,
and I think the point was missed. Postini is the McDonalds of the spam
blocking business. It's edible, it even tastes
I am one of the Declude users that is not a service provider but use it
only to protect our relatively small network. I've been very happy with
Declude's recent moves and have upgraded to the 4.x suite. I'll be
researching this new offering and if the price/performance pans out I'll
buy a
David,
You have asked for some constructive feedback here regarding this new
offering - I will not ask for a show of hands here :) but I bet a lot
of folks are rolling their eyes simply because of the core Declude
product and its outstanding bugs., inability to release a stable
product,
Nick,
With regards to outstanding bugs I have a list which we are working on, and
as you know I have committed to get these fixed as well as add new
functionality to Declude. When we did our tests against Message Sniffer we
found that CT performed at the very least comparable if not better than
Title: Message
So then indirectly it does generate revenue. Because without it revenue
would be lost. The ISP users need to ask is what level of these services do I
need to offer to keep current customers happy and what level of service do I
need to land new business?
Kevin Bilbee
David Barker wrote:
I don't understand why this is a problem.
That in fact IS the problem, isn't it?
:)
Matt
---
This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To
unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and
type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can
CT is a feature of the new Declude Gateway product. It was by my request
that we made CT available to Declude Security Suite users as an option and
price that is beyond reasonable. As you have clearly pointed out in your
post that CT is of no real value to you (CommTouch has zero possibility of
I have to agree with all the other people who have expressed comments
about the escalating costs to provide a good anti-spam/virus service. I
also run into the problem of the client say it is good enough and when
you look in their inbox if has a bunch of spam in it.
So let me throw out a few
Darrell,
1. Are components of the message hashed and some type of hash is sent to
CommTouch for analysis?
RPD extracts 2 types of patterns from the message, Distribution Patterns
(from the header), and Structural Pattern (mathematical sample of the body
and attachments. These patterns don't
Ouch' let keep it in context. We have added an option that is comparable to
Message Sniffer at 1/2 the price of Message Sniffer and I don't get it. ;)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:18 PM
To:
David,
It's the revenue share. Is that not a requirement of the gateway
product? Are people like me not your target for the gateway product?
It's also what one isn't getting for the product that exists now. I
don't wish to see new functionality added at an expense when the lack
of product
David,
This is in context. Really.
You mention that it is 1/2 the price of Message Sniffer...but not for
service providers. Under any revenue share that I could contemplate
you using, it would no doubt be many times more expensive, not to
mention the fact (which John pointed out), that it
I do not think it is a problem. I like the additional option. But if I was a
new customer the subscription model would be out of our price range. I would
like to see a trial of the CT add-in.
We have a habit of not buying software without firsthand experience (trial
version).
Contrary to your
Sound like Cloudmark (http://www.cloudmark.com/) and their free Razor
service (http://razor.sourceforge.net/), which I have already been using
successfully for a few years now.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: David Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: declude.junkmail@declude.com
Sent:
Matt,
1. With regards to no new functionality, we have been over this I agreed and
made a commitment to address this. I think to say that Declude has become
more buggy over time is not entirely true as I have posted before, much of
the problems were not seen under the single application
I would have to agree with Matt’s last few comments
The people that can purchase CommTouch for $195 are
mostly not complaining except for two things; 1) they are worried about this
abnormal approach to the market and how it reflects on the prospects of Declude
going forward, and 2) they
CT is only run once and deals with spam as a weighted test or a Virus as a
Virus scanner on the AV side, it runs before the AV in the virus.cfg all
other scanners will also run if EXITSCANONVIRUSDETECT OFF
David B
www.declude.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi David,
David Barker wrote:
Nick,
With regards to outstanding bugs I have a list which we are working on, and
as you know I have committed to get these fixed as well
That you have, and your participation on this list is greatly
appreciated. I was only trying to suggest that the past couple
Yea at this point there is no candy left I will have to get a refill. :)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick
Hayer
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:40 PM
To: declude.junkmail@declude.com
Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Commtouch, etc
Hi
Hi David,
In regards to the concern raised by many, and you're response that you need
time to turn everything around...
The problem many of us are having is that all we have seen so far, even in
the recent announcements, is demand for more money with none of the
increased functionality we've
Also check out the free Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse
(http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/dcc/), which we have also been using
successfully for a few years. Not to mention the old Pyzor service
(http://pyzor.sourceforge.net/), which is still available and functioning
(Razor spun off from
Contrary to your comments on the use of this forum, it has always
been for all things Declude when Scott
was the sole player he never complained about the conversation
threads. Positive or negative. I think you
could complain if say we were talking about phone systems.
On the other hand, I
Title: Message
Hahahahaha! E-mail hardlykeeps or
draws customers. Anybody who wants e-mail can go to Hotmail or
Yahoo. When the addy gets horked by spammers, simply abandon it and create
another. Domain hosting, maybe a little. However, I have domain
customers who havenever used their
Oh and prices were increased from $132 to $295 before they were
dropped back
to $132 for legacy customers, so there was no price cut except in the
sense
of department stores raising prices to have a sale.
FYI, from the time that Service Agreements first came out through
December, 2004 the
I guess what I am getting at here is that there are lots of free
choices/options/solutions available out there without having to
resort to pricey and convoluted options like CommTouch.
Bill, to be fair, DCC is plenty convoluted itself, if you follow the
requirement to run your
On 7/14/06, Scott Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another hand raised. End User (business) here. Apparantly I missed the
Exchange memo.
Put yourr hand down :-) According to the definition you are a service
provider. Quoted with emphasis added:
definition: a business which provides their
Sandy,
Declude was for a time censoring (deleting without notice) posts to the
list that even alluded to support failures
This is totally untrue and unsubstantiated. We have NEVER censored these
lists.
David B
www.declude.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To help clarify this. Service Providers are businesses like ISP's, Hosting
Providers, Clean Forward services who provide spam protection and/or virus
protection to their customers by charging them a fee for the service that
they offer.
Whereas a Non Service Provider would be a business that
On 7/19/06, Kevin Bilbee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So then indirectly it does generate revenue. Because without it revenue
would be lost.
Hardly. Carry that argument out to prove how wrong it is. By virtue
of the fact that they allow me to be in business in the first place I
can expect a
This is totally untrue and unsubstantiated. We have NEVER censored
these lists.
I can substantiate using mail server logs from 3 successive days
that posts that contained purely technical content were passed to the
list exploder, while messages that contained passages questioning
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sanford
Whiteman
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 4:06 PM
To: David Barker
Subject: Re[4]: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 4.3 - Commtouch trial ?
This is totally untrue and unsubstantiated. We have NEVER
Sandy,
Believe me we do not have the time or the resources to be deleting posts.
If you have logs you can send me I will be glad to look at what happened for
you.
I can guarantee you 100% no censoring has ever taken place.
David B
www.declude.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL
They were at $264 for combo JunkMail/Virus, which works out to $132/product.
Later they were broken out at $132 apiece. Then the price was raised. Then
the price was evidently lowered back to what it was (I haven't looked to
verify this last, just taking David B's word on it).
Darin.
-
Sandy, I was not suggesting that anyone move to SpamAssassin, rather, that
Declude should have looked at these other options and possibly consider
building in support for these services into Declude (since they are open
source solutions, source code and specifications are available), or at
Then I just do not get it. If revenue would not be lost without it and it costs
you money to provide then what is the business case for providing the service?
Last I checked business, are in business to make money on capital
investments/expenditures. Not spend money for things that do not make
Just as SA and other spam apps have built in support for these
freely available and open source spam services, nothing would have
prevented Declude from doing the same.
Don't agree. Have you ever looked at the Rhyolite lists and looked at
Vernon's opinion of commercial DCC sofware
If you have logs you can send me I will be glad to look at what
happened for you.
I will see if I have them around. Main question is, Why were posts
getting silently dropped about a month or so ago? There's no question
that they were getting dropped. Other people reported this as well.
There was a time period of about 3 days when the lists were having problems
on our end as we were in the middle of a server migration / email server
migration / and a major office relocation. I am sure it is this time you are
referring too. But to be honest Sandy censorship that is a little too
I think one thing that happened here is that the announcement regarding
ComTouch didn't make it *clear* that it is an *optional* part of Declude.
MY initial impression was that *any* Service Provider who uses the version
of Declude that incomes ComTouch would be required to participate in the
Razor has always been free, even during that very short timeframe of like
6 months where they were considering charging for usage if you were using
Razor in a revenue based model. However, as you probably know, that was
very short lived and quickly reverted back to just plain free.
A
I thought this was due to a glitch in the transition from IMail to
SmarterMail at Declude.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: Sanford Whiteman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: David Barker declude.junkmail@declude.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:49 PM
Subject: Re[6]: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude
There was a time period of about 3 days when the lists were having
problems on our end as we were in the middle of a server migration /
email server migration / and a major office relocation. I am sure it
is this time you are referring too. But to be honest Sandy
censorship that
David,
There was quite a discussion about three weeks ago about this, as a number
of critical posts were not making it to the list, but other posts were. It
could be that you were having intermittent problems with the list, but it
certainly appeared to a number of us that the list was being
David, it looks like Declude needs to update its SPF record as posts from
the list are failing both:
SPF_HELO_SOFTFAIL
SPF_SOFTFAIL
DNSStuff is showing softfail for your mail delivery host IP address, as
well:
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/spf.ch?server=declude.comip=63.246.31.248
Bill
I agree it may have appeared so, but take my word for it, we did not censor
the lists.
David B
www.declude.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin
Cox
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:15 PM
To: declude.junkmail@declude.com
Subject:
On 7/19/06, Kevin Bilbee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If revenue would not be lost without it and it costs you money to provide then
what is the business case for providing the service?
In 2006, for any small operator, nothing insofar as the service itself
is concerned. You only do it to provide
The toilet paper manufacturer does not impose a per-customer usage fee or
take a direct percentage of the restaurant's
Otherwise, Chili's would revise their menus.
Enough of that sh*t, as a certain world leader would say.
Best Regards
Andy Schmidt
Phone: +1 201 934-3414 x20 (Business)
Andy, not sure what you mean, are you beating around the Bush ?
David B
www.declude.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy
Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:41 PM
To: declude.junkmail@declude.com
Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail]
No they do not impose a revenue sharing model, but toilet paper is still a
consumable that indirectly makes restaurants money by keeping its customers
happy. When it is there no one notices, when it is not customers definitely
know and are put off.
My comments are not about the revenue sharing
Title: Message
Then stop offering mail if it such a burden to the business.
Explain to your customer that they can
can go to Hotmail or Yahoo. When the addy gets horked
by spammers, simply abandon it and create another.
Let us know how many customers stay with your service. Of
Razor has always been free, even during that very short timeframe
of like 6 months where they were considering charging for usage if
you were using Razor in a revenue based model. However, as you
probably know, that was very short lived and quickly reverted back
to just plain free.
Hopefully my original point is not getting lost in this rather irrelevant
minutia. However, if I were leading a development team that was going to
integrate these spam hashing services into existing code running in a
Windows environment, I would not attempt to convert/port from any other
David,
I laid low for a bit, but let me try to bring this back on track and
help along the understanding.
I know that these aren't your own choices, and knowing that it would be
wrong to accuse you of anything, but you are the elected mouth piece for
the company and grief here is well
I would not attempt to convert/port from any other existing language
(unless I had experts in both languages), I would simply start with
the existing specifications and develop original code (in my
programming language of choice) to those specs...
You're quite right!
And it does
Why the secretive one-on-one scenario? You have an active customer
base on this list which is interested. What's negative is not
fostering the communications with the the active customer base and,
moreover, explicitly attempting to derail an open and transparent
discussion on this list.
The
Yes. Obviously, you don't get it.
Wednesday, July 19, 2006, 11:35:17 AM, David Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DB Ouch' let keep it in context. We have added an option that is comparable to
DB Message Sniffer at 1/2 the price of Message Sniffer and I don't get it. ;)
DB -Original
Details are good. Why not provide them at the time of the roll out
and avoid a lot of noise and upset posts? It would be good if you did
this kind of thing routinely with new Declude releases, too. It would
be pretty amazing what little things would keep the natives from
becoming so restless.
Title: Message
You're saying that email and spam/virus scanning is
a service aspect that specifically draws customers to an ISP.
I'msaying it doesn't, that's all.I've not once heard a
customer state that email service was the deciding factor in choosing us, and
there's no evidence it
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