Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?
+1 on that one - Facebook pretty much has first pick on the best talent of PHP developers worldwide. They are even actively contributing to the PHP code base and also released a couple of their own projects under open source (like Apache Cassandra/Hive/etc, see http://developers.facebook.com/opensource/ ) that help with scaling. I don't like FB for taking liberties with sharing our personal information with everyone, but as far as useful contribution to the developer community goes one can't really complain much about them. The average FB page contains a lot of personalized data - I think the main reason for any of Rohits perceived fb slowness is that FB has to fetch up to 10-15 groups of data out of memcached/graph-database/mysql/etc and that takes a bit of time (probably a multitude of what is spend on PHP to assemble the HTML output). Regards, Stefan From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Neven MacEwan Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 12:22 PM To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP? Rohit I don't subscribe to your view re rubbish programmers, slowness (or a certain response speed) may be their target when your revenue is advertising :-) Here is one thing they have done with PHP, http://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/358/ Mind you I dont use FB Neven Neven, are you implying that facebook uses some sort of compiled language. As far as I know it uses php. Its slowness stems from them using rubbish programmers. Every time they make a change - their choices/decisions makes things even slower. On 5/06/2011 10:37 p.m., Neven MacEwan wrote: John Debugging PHP poor? Breakpoints, hover-over variable values, step into what more do you need? I agree with the speed thing though, No need for compiled code until you get to facebook size. I always thought the concept of a PHP VCL a little strange, The statelessness of webservers and the limitations of browsers was always going to make a rich delphi like application builder a hard ask, almost destined to disappoint. Having said that I wouldn't suggest anyone starting a new project go for a fat client unless heavy graphic requirement dictated it Neven I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got to learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way! Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website development I suppose. I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but never got to it (should I?). John C From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Rohit Gupta Sent: Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to MS. Its also very popular. I started off with Delphi for PHP. But the investment in learning it was wasted. The only thing I use it for is for debugging now. There is no vcl in sight. Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS. I think you have to , if you want it efficient. Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of users not just hundreds. It is my spare time project too. Check it out if you want 7bfaces.com. You have to signup to see it and note its work in progress. On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: Thanks Berend, I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a job since about 2005. My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I know the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm resisting that move. Steve On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer ber...@pobox.com wrote: Steve == Steve Peacocke st...@peacocke.net writes: Steve Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others Steve use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to Steve D2011 or something else? I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how many RoR jobs there are in NZ. Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works. But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit. -- All the best, Berend de Boer
Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?
I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got to learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way! Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website development I suppose. I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but never got to it (should I?). John C From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Rohit Gupta Sent: Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Web development I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to MS. Its also very popular. I started off with Delphi for PHP. But the investment in learning it was wasted. The only thing I use it for is for debugging now. There is no vcl in sight. Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS. I think you have to , if you want it efficient. Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of users not just hundreds. It is my spare time project too. Check it out if you want 7bfaces.com. You have to signup to see it and note its work in progress. On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: Thanks Berend, I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a job since about 2005. My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I know the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm resisting that move. Steve On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer ber...@pobox.com wrote: Steve == Steve Peacocke st...@peacocke.net writes: Steve Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others Steve use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to Steve D2011 or something else? I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how many RoR jobs there are in NZ. Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works. But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit. -- All the best, Berend de Boer -- Awesome Drupal hosting: https://www.xplainhosting.com/ ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6175 (20110602) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6178 (20110603) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- Regards Rohit Gupta B.E. Elec., M.E., Mem IEEE, Member IET Technical Manager Computer Fanatics Ltd Tel 4892280 Fax 4892290 Web www.cfl.co.nz _ This email and any attachments contain information, which is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege and copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, distribute or copy this email or attachments. If you have received this in error, please notify us immediately by return email and then delete this email and any attachments. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6180 (20110604) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?
John Debugging PHP poor? Breakpoints, hover-over variable values, step into what more do you need? I agree with the speed thing though, No need for compiled code until you get to facebook size. I always thought the concept of a PHP VCL a little strange, The statelessness of webservers and the limitations of browsers was always going to make a rich delphi like application builder a hard ask, almost destined to disappoint. Having said that I wouldn't suggest anyone starting a new project go for a fat client unless heavy graphic requirement dictated it Neven I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got to learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way! Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website development I suppose. I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but never got to it (should I?). John C *From:*delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Rohit Gupta *Sent:* Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m. *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Web development I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to MS. Its also very popular. I started off with Delphi for PHP. But the investment in learning it was wasted. The only thing I use it for is for debugging now. There is no vcl in sight. Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS. I think you have to , if you want it efficient. Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of users not just hundreds. It is my spare time project too. Check it out if you want7bfaces.com. You have to signup to see it and note its work in progress. On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: Thanks Berend, I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a job since about 2005. My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I know the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm resisting that move. Steve On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer ber...@pobox.com mailto:ber...@pobox.com wrote: Steve == Steve Peacocke st...@peacocke.net mailto:st...@peacocke.net writes: Steve Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others Steve use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to Steve D2011 or something else? I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how many RoR jobs there are in NZ. Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works. But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit. -- All the best, Berend de Boer -- Awesome Drupal hosting: https://www.xplainhosting.com/ ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz mailto:delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post:delphi@delphi.org.nz mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin:http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email todelphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz mailto:delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6175 (20110602) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6178 (20110603) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- Regards *Rohit Gupta* B.E. Elec., M.E., Mem IEEE, Member IET Technical Manager Computer Fanatics Ltd *Tel *4892280 *Fax *4892290 *Web *www.cfl.co.nz This email and any attachments contain information, which is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege and copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, distribute or copy this email or attachments. If you have received
Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?
John, I wouldnt go for Delphi 4 php - the vcl is a pointless exercise. Debugging (when it works - it has a mind of its own) works really well - all the delphi debugging facilities. If you want to go for Delphi for PHP, I would wait for the next version. Or, my son says that eclipse should do the trick, but I havent tried it. Rohit On 5/06/2011 8:20 p.m., John C wrote: I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got to learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way! Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website development I suppose. I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but never got to it (should I?). John C *From:*delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Rohit Gupta *Sent:* Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m. *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Web development I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to MS. Its also very popular. I started off with Delphi for PHP. But the investment in learning it was wasted. The only thing I use it for is for debugging now. There is no vcl in sight. Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS. I think you have to , if you want it efficient. Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of users not just hundreds. It is my spare time project too. Check it out if you want7bfaces.com. You have to signup to see it and note its work in progress. On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: Thanks Berend, I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a job since about 2005. My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I know the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm resisting that move. Steve On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer ber...@pobox.com mailto:ber...@pobox.com wrote: Steve == Steve Peacocke st...@peacocke.net mailto:st...@peacocke.net writes: Steve Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others Steve use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to Steve D2011 or something else? I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how many RoR jobs there are in NZ. Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works. But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit. -- All the best, Berend de Boer -- Awesome Drupal hosting: https://www.xplainhosting.com/ ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz mailto:delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post:delphi@delphi.org.nz mailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin:http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email todelphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz mailto:delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6175 (20110602) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6178 (20110603) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- Regards *Rohit Gupta* B.E. Elec., M.E., Mem IEEE, Member IET Technical Manager Computer Fanatics Ltd *Tel *4892280 *Fax *4892290 *Web *www.cfl.co.nz This email and any attachments contain information, which is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege and copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, distribute or copy this email or attachments. If you have received this in error, please notify us immediately by return email and then delete this email and any attachments. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6180
Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?
Neven, are you implying that facebook uses some sort of compiled language. As far as I know it uses php. Its slowness stems from them using rubbish programmers. Every time they make a change - their choices/decisions makes things even slower. On 5/06/2011 10:37 p.m., Neven MacEwan wrote: John Debugging PHP poor? Breakpoints, hover-over variable values, step into what more do you need? I agree with the speed thing though, No need for compiled code until you get to facebook size. I always thought the concept of a PHP VCL a little strange, The statelessness of webservers and the limitations of browsers was always going to make a rich delphi like application builder a hard ask, almost destined to disappoint. Having said that I wouldn't suggest anyone starting a new project go for a fat client unless heavy graphic requirement dictated it Neven I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got to learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way! Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website development I suppose. I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but never got to it (should I?). John C *From:*delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Rohit Gupta *Sent:* Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m. *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Web development I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to MS. Its also very popular. I started off with Delphi for PHP. But the investment in learning it was wasted. The only thing I use it for is for debugging now. There is no vcl in sight. Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS. I think you have to , if you want it efficient. Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of users not just hundreds. It is my spare time project too. Check it out if you want7bfaces.com. You have to signup to see it and note its work in progress. On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: Thanks Berend, I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a job since about 2005. My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I know the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm resisting that move. Steve On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer ber...@pobox.com mailto:ber...@pobox.com wrote: Steve == Steve Peacocke st...@peacocke.net mailto:st...@peacocke.net writes: Steve Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others Steve use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to Steve D2011 or something else? I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how many RoR jobs there are in NZ. Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works. But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit. -- All the best, Berend de Boer -- ail and then delete this email and any attachments. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6182 (20110605) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Web development - PHP or not PHP?
Rohit I don't subscribe to your view re rubbish programmers, slowness (or a certain response speed) may be their target when your revenue is advertising :-) Here is one thing they have done with PHP, http://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/358/ Mind you I dont use FB Neven Neven, are you implying that facebook uses some sort of compiled language. As far as I know it uses php. Its slowness stems from them using rubbish programmers. Every time they make a change - their choices/decisions makes things even slower. On 5/06/2011 10:37 p.m., Neven MacEwan wrote: John Debugging PHP poor? Breakpoints, hover-over variable values, step into what more do you need? I agree with the speed thing though, No need for compiled code until you get to facebook size. I always thought the concept of a PHP VCL a little strange, The statelessness of webservers and the limitations of browsers was always going to make a rich delphi like application builder a hard ask, almost destined to disappoint. Having said that I wouldn't suggest anyone starting a new project go for a fat client unless heavy graphic requirement dictated it Neven I use PHP already for many years and I like as it integrates nicely and easily with HTML, CSS and JavaScript. And as Rohit explained, no matter what language you use, for more advanced application you got to learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript any way! Speed might be an issue for some applications (?) but PHP is fast enough for most applications (so why bother). I agree that the debugging side of PHP is a bit poor, but that's all part of website development I suppose. I wanted to make a start with Delphi 4 PHP a couple of years ago, but never got to it (should I?). John C *From:*delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Rohit Gupta *Sent:* Sunday, 5 June 2011 5:05 p.m. *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Web development I have been using PHP because I did not want the server to be tied to MS. Its also very popular. I started off with Delphi for PHP. But the investment in learning it was wasted. The only thing I use it for is for debugging now. There is no vcl in sight. Had t learn PHP, javascript, HTML and CSS. I think you have to , if you want it efficient. Mine has to be as I am targeting millions of users not just hundreds. It is my spare time project too. Check it out if you want7bfaces.com. You have to signup to see it and note its work in progress. On 3/06/2011 4:57 p.m., Steve Peacocke wrote: Thanks Berend, I'm not doing this for a job but working on my on applications at home in my spare time. I've been programming for many years but not as a job since about 2005. My next project will be totally web based and I've been thinking that I'd need to make the move to RubyonRails at that point, but before I make that commitment, I wondered if anyone was using Delphi successfully on good advanced web projects - or something else. I know the C#.NET argument is a pretty good argument but for some reasons I'm resisting that move. Steve On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Berend de Boer ber...@pobox.com mailto:ber...@pobox.com wrote: Steve == Steve Peacocke st...@peacocke.net mailto:st...@peacocke.net writes: Steve Perhaps others have a better suggestion? What do others Steve use? Should I bite the bullet and jump to RoR or upgrade to Steve D2011 or something else? I mean, you're learning this for fun or for having a job? Not sure how many RoR jobs there are in NZ. Some years ago I heard that most Delphi programmers went to PHP. The PHP market in NZ is pretty robust, so that works. But if you want to stay in the Microsoft World, C# + ASPX or whatever the greatest latest technology is from M$ would be the best fit. -- All the best, Berend de Boer -- ail and then delete this email and any attachments. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6182 (20110605) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
