Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Calc Survey
Hi Heiko and team, *Additional question recommendation*: Q: In what capacity do you use Calc? (Check all that apply) 1. Education/school 2. Professional 3. Personal (e.g. home office, accounting) Wording here is VERY rough, but I thought use cases could be valuable. (e.g. 82% of Calc users use it in a professional capacity). Q: I do not know how to word/format this question, but I think it would be valuable to know why people don't use Calc more often. Example answers could be: workplace uses MS Office platform, lacks collaboration features, lacks a critical feature I need, etc... It is a bit of a free response question so I struggle with how it should be formatted and presented. A list of options with an 'other' free response at the end may be best. *Corrections*: Q9 - "Liner(sp) and non-linear" -> Linear and non-linear *Other comments/recommendations*: - *Scale*: I believe most professional surveyors recommend the Likert scale (1-5) instead of a 1-7 scale as there is more variance in larger scales. In my experience (limited as it is not being a professional surveyor) I find that if people have a given mental energy they dedicate to a survey, larger scales use more of that energy and therefore reduce the value of later answers (they get survey exhaustion and choose whatever) or they give up and do not complete the survey. As an example, what does it mean if someone chooses a 5 versus a 6 versus a 7 for Spell Check. If they pick a 6 does that mean they find 2/3 the value in spell check as compared to someone who chooses a 7? If someone chooses a 5, does that mean they don't care that much if we took spell check away? In a 5 point scale I would assume a 4 means it is a feature they sometimes use and 5 is a feature they use all the time which gives better clarity on the value of a feature. - *Number of items in 9*: Again on the point of survey exhaustion, I would recommend the list of items in 9 be reduced to the most valuable questions. Not to pick on Spell Check, but what value is that question to us? Would the team really spend more time on Spell Check versus other Calc features? I don't believe 7's on spell check translates to an actionable item of interest to users. It just indicates that users use spell check... To that end my recommended list of items to cut from 9 would be: -* Spell Check* - *Formulas and Calculations* - Lacks clarity on what feature enhancements would be desired, and as a core feature I can't imagine we would get valuable feedback - *Rows and columns manipulation?* - Undecided on this. What actions would be taken if people say they use this feature? I suppose new features could be added to support this functionality but I don't think the survey will tell us whether this is truly desired (just that people manipulate rows and columns which most users likely do). - *Number, percent, and Currency formatting *- similar logic to formulas and calculations above. With custom formatting power users can do whatever they want so actionable items here seem limited - I would *combine text and cell formatting *(I think together they address the functionality of interest) - *Cutting 'very' from question 13*: Some of the questions in 13 include 'very'. I think the nuance of 4 and 5 on a 5 point scale is the difference between no 'very' and a 'very' (aka 4 = hard to use, 5 = *very* hard to use). I would recommend cutting all the 'very's. *In response to others comments:* I support Q7 and would be very interested in the results although I think 'light' users of calc may be confused at first (the example is hard to find at the bottom). I wonder if it is more valuable to ask what the size is for users' largest data sets. I have huge data sets (100,000's of cells) but my average (mean, not median) would be small because I have tons of data sets with like <20 cells in them. I am ambivalent on Q3 clarifications; I think people will self-identify with the correct category for the most part. As for the 'select 6' question in Q9, I thought it was in there on purpose and I think we should keep that. It could say "Select 6 if you are not a robot" That would let us know if any surveys were filled out by bots. Just my opinion for what it is worth. Nice survey and hope it provides valuable information! Cheers, Jaron On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 12:36 PM Heiko Tietze < heiko.tie...@documentfoundation.org> wrote: > First reply from Stuart (per direct mail): > > > "Two confusing entries on page 5 of the draft survey: > > Select 6 as your answer choice Select "No Answer" as your answer choice > > I think they need to go to have valid results (and force respondents to > > answer each question)." > > Yes, the 'Select "No Answer" as your answer' choice slipped accidentally > in. > Also the item 'Select 6 as your answer choice'. > > Second from Kompilainnen (on Telegram): > > > * Q1: Drop question about gender (answer has no value for the results) > > * Q3: Add description like 'Basic - typing data, simple
Re: [libreoffice-design] Adding [UX] and [VI] tags to mail subjects?
Hi everyone, Great idea! I prefer to use shorter tags such as [UX] and [VI] as opposed to full words. Otherwise the subject of the email may get cut off, especially since all our emails are automatically tagged with the list at the beginning ex: [libreoffice-design][UX]. As for the specific tags I would prefer [UX] and [BD] (Branding Design) and of course no tag would be general purpose (such as announcements). Later we might add 1 or 2 more but I think it should be kept very simple, otherwise new members might get confused about which tags to use. Cheers, Jaron On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi all, would you like to add special tags to the subjects of your mails to show even more clearly, if the topic related to User Experience [UX] or Visual Identity / Branding Design [VI]? This might make it easier to browse the list for topics you are interested in. Do you think this makes sense? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] some backgrounds for libreoffice
Hi Gaël, Additionally, please feel free to look at: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Presentation_Templates which has the beginning structure of a working page for the Impress Backgrounds. I started an effort to critique the current templates and propose a structure to update the default templates to provide as many functional backgrounds as possible. The work has been delayed but if you are interested in helping please let us know. Cheers, Jaron On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi Vamsi, Gael, all Vamsi Kodali schrieb: Gael, that link does not work! Here it does... On Apr 5, 2011, at 4:12 PM, gael.lori...@laposte.net wrote: Hi again, it's here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:PresentationBackgrounds.zip Gael wrote in his first mail: Please find attached some presentation backgrounds I've been making and using in my presentation. Some are better than others, you might want to start checking out LightWave or colorUnite first. I personally like the ColorUnite (perhaps in lighter green and orange) and Dashed versions most. LightWave resembles me too much to OOo, Neuron and Rays might be interesting for some special target groups. We already thought about and started working on Impress templates - would you like to join this effort? If so, please read the thread starting with this mail: http://go.mail-archive.com/tUffHudsOdQIw8BOmzcWqhsiG0c= If you feel comfortable here, stay and keep on contributing depending on your time and interests - and if not, please tell us, what we could do better... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar
Hi Paulo, Christoph, Wow... I can't believe its been so long. This thread took quite the nap. I also like Style 1 best, top right corner, and 14x11. Although the orange seems a bit loud. I guess that is acceptable since it is likely the most appropriate color from our arsenal. It seems fine in Christoph's example. You may consider matching the gradient for the outline of the page in your icon to match the page icons in the zoom toolbar if they are going to be located so close. It may also give the icon a little more attention. Other than that, I think its great! Good job! Cheers, Jaron On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: Hi all! Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 18:59 -0200 schrieb Paulo José: Hello everybody! Some days ago Some weeks ago ... sorry for the long delay :-\ , Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already knew issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the status bar. The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document when the document have not saved changes, and some people think may be better ways to represent this status. [...] So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version, since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status bar icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to follow the suggestion of some people. Thank you so much, Paulo. Personally, I think the Style 1 (upper right) works best. The main reason is, that the shape of the document is preserved well - although the icon is so tiny. And, the star seems to appear quite balanced in this version. I first worried about the orange color, because usually yellow is used for indicating new. But of course - yellow is (given the constraints) almost invisible, so orange seems a great compromise. What else? Mmh, I think the 14x11px version fits better to the overall style of the status bar. The larger ones seem to be out of place somehow. So, if somebody wants to have a look at it - I've created an example by adding Paulo's icon to a simple status bar image: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tLL1kYfD-fNZ8d5wkSzydA?feat=directlink Any further thoughts? To me, it's already an improvement - so I'm happy to export the icons and create an issue for that. I'll keep the source ... Versions on 16x14px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg Versions on 14x11px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg I hope it can be useful in some way. :) By the way, I hope everybody noticed the interview with Paulo - I discovered more or less accidentally :-) http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/03/04/interview-with-paulo-jose-o-amaro/ Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo
Hi Joey, Sorry to disappoint after all your work but I took a poll at work and it was unianimous... people liked the original logo better. They thought it was easier to read (f's are too close) and they thought the f connecting to the i was out of place with the rest of the logo. Vote: Original Jaron On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Johannes Bausch johannes.bau...@gmail.comwrote: Hey, okay, I've tried to set up a voting page for us, see here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey/Ligatures http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey/LigaturesDo you all have write access to this page? I am not that experienced with wikis. @Bernhard: I've shifted the i more to the left. I've also redone the visual kerning for some of the letters; have a look at the scaled-down versions, it should look more even now. @all: It would be great if you voted on the wiki or here on the mailing list. Even if you disapprove of this poll it would be great to get some more opinions on this; so far it's only five people who talk about it. Thanks, Joey PS: I'll be away until Wednesday next week. 2011/3/2 Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at Hi Joey, all, replying to both of your mails, so please scroll down until the end... Johannes Bausch schrieb: Hey, to gather some more opinions I thought it would be a good idea to have a poll somewhere else, so I asked people in a forum to cast their vote. Although I don't know whether this was a good idea (not really representative, game design forum, so people might be programmers) I thought you might be interested in the results: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Poll.png It's impossible to see the different alternatives, because at my computer the background is nearly black. Ii updated the image with a slightly lighter grey background, so you can see the different alternatives, but keep the white text of the poll results. Apparently noone likes the too fancy ligatures. Most people also complained about the logo in general, so I tried to explain why this is (and remains, for now) the logo of LibO. If you're interested in the comments, too, I'll send you the link. So... in the next days I'll make some final drafts and put up a voting page. If you have some final ideas please tell me. People seem to like the last alternative (with f bow bent towards the i dot) as much as the original. Even if this is far from being representative, I'd like to see a finalized version of this proposal. Could you improve this by moving the i nearer to the f? I don't think that equal spacing for the dot between f and i looks best... Perhaps a combination of your third an my proposal? Greetings, Joey 2011/3/2 Johannes Bauschjohannes.bau...@gmail.com Hey Bernhard, 2011/3/2 Bernhard Dippoldbernh...@familie-dippold.at In your reply to my last mail I understood you in a way that you wanted to work on a new proposal. I added a third alternative (which I don't like very much). The logos on my page are only drafts; if we decide on one of them, I'll spend more time on it. At the moment I don't have another idea how to deal with the ligature - do you? I'd be more than glad to try another one. Like your poll members I like this proposal best, but it needs some more tweaking (I mentioned above). I don't think that there are so many alternatives to modify the two f and the i, so I don't have any other reliable alternative in mind. [...] But what we need to keep in mind: Changes being recognized by the average user / viewer will more likely be postponed until a new major or minor version than modifications leading only to a more balanced, professional and consistent visual impression. +1, I agree. In my eyes proposals (c) and (d) might fall in the balanced category, while (a) and (b) would be more recognizable as modified details. Who has the final word on that? The SC, but they probably support a decision by the Design Team. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft
Hi Nik, I would love to be involved but unfortunately I still feel that I don't fully understand what is desired in the motif (what is the end deliverable). Of course, design is not my main background (mechanical engineering is) so hopefully once design proposals go up I can contribute. I look forward to seeing motif's! Cheers, Jaron On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Nik n...@tdf.nikashsingh.com wrote: Hi Design! 2 more days to go until the brainstorming of motif ideas is over and we begin design proposals (on Monday). Head over to this page for more information; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif On 2/28/2011 10:45 AM, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Bernhard, hi Nik, all! I'd like to second Bernhard's Thank you!, since you take care of this topic! No problem, but time is running out for me unfortunately, one of you guys may have to take over before the task is complete =( Am Sonntag, den 27.02.2011, 22:36 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: What we should add to the motif page are the examples used already: - the single triangle (like the bullet points on the website) - the grouped fading triangles in the left upper and right lower corner (from the start center) - Paulo's idea of five colored triangles sticked together in a vertical row (on his light banners in the donate button) - outer border with rounded corners and cut-off right upper corner (don't know if this really qualifys as motif, but it has an impact on the general visual impression) ... any others? Hi Bernhard and Christoph, I've added your respective comments on the motif page and listed the previous attempts list Bernhard summarised above (but haven't linked any because I'm short on time). Thanks for the nice collection - close to motif had been used for the presentation template. The outline of the triangles in the background ... http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/libreoffice-presentation-template-first.html There is one item which is even less a motiv, but repeated throughout many of the graphics for the software: a non-symmetrical circular color gradient, and some linear gradients in the header and footer. An early version: http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements.html I'm glad to include these on the page, but we should expect that these previous elements will have no significant bearing on the Motif yet-to-be-designed. I don't like carrying-over elements just because they have been used, I think it would be better to craft new elements from scratch with clear purpose+intentions+context from the beginning. Cheers, Christoph Looking forward to some sexy motif proposals real soon crew! -Nik -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi all, I like both ideas but lean towards Andrews suggestion. I would like to instead propose a different approach but perhaps from a coding perspective it would not be an easy hack. There was discussion over the years on the OOo list about changing the background from the dull gray to something more upbeat. Perhaps the 'shadow' could be integrated into a new customization feature that allows the user to change the background and the shadow. Unfortunately, I can't recall how difficult this is... (I seem to recall some large problem in the code that made this difficult, but it may have been an issue). Cheers, Jaron On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Andrew rugby...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/03/11 07:42, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:35:11 +0100, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com a écrit : Hi Sébastien, hi all! Hi Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 14:16 +0100 schrieb Sébastien Le Ray: Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +, Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com a écrit : [...] Although I didn't see it yet, thanks for your work - I'm really looking forward. You can find a screenshot on http://misc.orniz.org/libreoffice/lo-shadow.png book mode is also handled nicely... [...] However, I'd like to provide some pointers to the Notes stuff - it's really worth spending some time digging through some of the descriptions (in my point-of-view). I think this is better than pre-process most of the stuff, since I'm unaware of your likings :-) The notes main wiki page (Notes2 because of the CWS that time): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2 Here are the links to the detailed designs that had (sometimes) to be adapted due to technical constraints nobody spent the time for: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Status_and_Proposals And once finished with the default stuff, we have lots of further ideas: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_OtherIdeas Personally, I've already spend over one year with the Notes project being the UX representative, so I'd like to work with you on that - if you like :-) I'll be pleased to :) It'd be nice to have a UI tasks on libreoffice wiki presenting all tasks that are ready on a Design point of view but that have not yet been implemented. There is a lot of stuff on the Note2 wiki page, could you give priorities on various items? [...] If you are generally interested in working on Usability / Visual Design topics (of course, from the developer's point-of-view - and we really need some understanding and support here), feel invited to subscribe to the Design Team mailing list - some more information can be found here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design Subscribed yesterday :-) It seems that you've been busy with more marketting stuff that UI design lately to cover the launch of LO, FOSDEM and funraising Waiting for you priorities mockups on notes work :-) Sébastien Hi All and Sebastien :) Regarding that patch, I think that what we have in that screenshot is a definite improvement, but I feel we could do better, and hopefully without a lot more work. If you look at the mockup I attached to the bug report, I feel this looks a lot more modern and professional. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=39920 I feel if instead of having that shadow aligned to the bottom left, instead it is centred on the page, and we have a slightly larger blur radius we can make it look a lot better. Is this just me, or do other think this as well? -- Andrew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Using a Gallery table in the wiki to provide design resources?
Hi Bernhard, I think it is a great idea! It worked really well on the OOo wiki and I think it will work again! On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi all, as this topic is relevant for design and marketing, I don't see a way to avoid cross-posting. Follow-up on the marketing list please. During the last weeks several people worked on design elements to be used in order to improve knowledge and public awareness for LibreOffice. Marc is working hard to put them all together on the marketing wiki, but I feel that we still miss an easy entry point for people interested in using such resources on their website, for marketing activities and so on. Back in OOo times we had a gallery showing different categories of such artwork which served quite well for people searching for a web button, a banner or a CD/DVD label. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/Gallery Before I start working on migrating this gallery to our wiki (as I created it, there is no licensing issue), I'd like to ask your opinion: Do you think this is a good approach? In contrast to the OOo gallery I'd like to see this wiki page as entry point to the officially approved designs - positioned at the marketing area of the wiki (at least until we put them up on the website). Agreed. It should be explicit what objects in the gallery are official and which ones are unofficial designs so that marketing can make really good use of the area. (We keep getting lots of questions on the design list about different resources.) The development area on the design wiki might get a similar entry point (for contributors, including the official source file necessary for using them as basis for branding based design), but I think the marketing / user / supporter resources are more important at the moment. Agreed. It seems right now design is okay with sending links or making temporary wiki pages for current projects (motif for example). Any questions? proposals? ideas? Perhaps I will have more constructive feedback when the page starts to take shape. Cheers, Jaron -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Branding resources - external and internal use, or ... ?
HI Christoph, Bernhard, Side note: Where can I find the Steering Committee call for Trademark Guidlines? Or for that matter any Steering Committee actions... I can't find any SC meeting notes from 2011 on the wiki. On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: Hi Bernhard, hi all! There has been the SC call today, and one of the topics was Trademark Guideline along with the logos for external use. That made me think ... I've had a look at the branding page [1]. To me, personally, the naming resources for external use looks a bit strange. Since most people might go to this page to find out about the logos for the wider community, external use might miss the point a bit. At the end, they don't feel like externals. So my proposal would be to differentiate between resources for TDF use (or official use), and resources for the LibreOffice community. Would that be fine? Do you think that's appropriate with regard to the trademark guidelines? This seems confusing to me... I may think that resources for the LibreOffice community cannot be used externally (at a conference, for example). The wording here is really tough... Perhaps instead we could consider for wording, *Non-community member resources*. The logos that appear there can redundantly appear in the *resources for the LibreOffice Community* to avoid any confusion. That way community members always go to the same page and non-community members always go to the same page. It is very confusing right now what materials can be officially used for what purposes (which is natural since we are so young). Bernhard's gallery should help in arranging the available material but I think the marketing/branding pages should have explicit directions for Non-community members and Community members so that it is clear what resources they can use. Just my 2 cents... Cheers, Jaron -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] [approval request] Challenge banner proposals by Paulo
Hi all, On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: 2nd topic: Approval of Paulo's skyscraper banner I would ask you to approve the skyscraper (160x600px) vertical banner as official design element to be used on external websites: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-The-Challenge-Banner-Paulo-v2-dark.png This banner is perfect in my eyes: High praise! I too think its a great banner: +1 Third topic: The 300x250px rectangle banners Even if several team members like these banners too, I personally think that they might look even better, if they could be modified a bit. That's the reason why I don't ask for approval for these banners too. Looking at the motif discussion (I support it - even if I didn't have the time to comment by now), I would like to see the graphic at the donate button to be discussed in this thread: It combines known elements (triangles, colors) to a new distinct element. As this is the only colored element on the banner, my feeling is, that it leads too far away from our present branding. If we would integrate it as central branding element, it would fit very well here... But at the moment I could imagine one of our present elements better. And another thought: In comparison to the skyscraper banner the wording is focused on The Challenge in the middle, while the logo above has a bolder font than the text below. This leads (in my personal opinion - not at all the absolute truth) to some kind of imbalance with the more heavy parts at the top. If they would be taken as title, this would be okay, but without more text below (building a good foundation just be the larger area filled) I don't feel totally comfortable. Perhaps I would feel better, if the areas would be switched (like on the skyscraper?) - I don't know. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Blog Posting: ODF Mime Type Icons Redesign
Hi Christoph, Thanks! That was a very insightful article! I learn more about design every day. Cheers, Jaron On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: Hi all, Andreas from the OpenOffice.org UX Team published a blog post with some interesting insights concerning some ODF icons improvements ... so if you like to have a look at it, here you go. ODF Mime Type Icons Redesign http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/odf_mime_type_icons_redesign Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] icon proposal (draft)
Hi Tobias, The list does not allow for attachments. Please upload your icons to a 3rd party site or the document foundation wiki. Thanks! Cheers, Jaron On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Tobias Bernard berto...@gmail.com wrote: hi here are some icon drafts. i started from the 256px icons from the svg on the wiki and added these square-based pictograms. these pictograms maybe don't give as much infomation as the current ones, but in my opinion they have a cleaner style and don't look so crowded. i know you decided to use a white background but there's also a trial with colored background. these icons need much more details, such as shadows, gradients etc but they show the basic idea. what do you think? greetings tobias -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates
Hi Ricardo, Good point! I will make sure to add that to the wiki page. Cheers, Jaron On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:41 PM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: One problem I can see on many templates is the use of proprietary font, like arial, times new roman, thorndale, etc: none of those fonts are installed on my Linux system, for instance. I think that a LibO default template must use the fonts delivered with LibO, otherwise there will be compatibility issues on different platforms and that's not good. Cheers, Ricardo 2011/2/12 Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.com: Hi everyone, I have updated the wiki page significantly. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Presentation_Templates I added a new section which I hope can be used to critique the existing default templates many of which (from my attempts to review each one) have problems such as font choice (serif fonts should be frowned upon), alignment issues (content and title area's improperly aligned), inadequate background images (too bright or distracting) and bullet indentation (too large an indentation makes second level numbered content, and higher numbered content, space inefficient). Please feel free to look over my work and add your own critiques of the existing default templates. In other news, I added Paulo's Green Theme to the wiki with a link to his blog page. It looks good Paulo I can't wait to see bullets. If you need help with setting up a master page for your template let me know and I can help. If you send me your background image and bullet images along with your desired fonts I can create the template for you. Please let me know if there are things on the wiki page you want changed, or you can just change them yourself. :-) Cheers, Jaron On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Thanks for the feedback. I have started a wiki page as recommended by Bernhard at: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Presentation_Templates Hopefully, I can finish cleaning it up and filling it out later this evening. Once I get the page completed I will send an invitation to the Docs group for collaboration. Is there anyone else that I should involve? Cheers, Jaron 2011/2/10 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com On 10-02-2011 08:58, Bernhard Dippold wrote: ... and Kevin! :-) *:) Yeah, and Kevin for the great idea, as I've said. :-P On 09-02-2011 19:25, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Jaron! Am Montag, den 07.02.2011, 16:36 -0500 schrieb Jaron Kuppers: Please provide feedback or direction as Kevin_Items and I move forward on developing a few templates. Thanks! If you didn't already (sorry if I don't remember every mail I read during the last week), would you mind to create a dedicated wiki page for the presentation template work? Something like http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Presentation_Templates (Any better structure idea welcome) I think it might be a good idea to collect the template categories and some more specific information there, allowing others (from other teams, if interested) to join. It will be very useful and I hope to see it soon fill up with good ideas from all. :D I didn't see the Christoph's link with the user feedback about templates, but I think would be nice to include its information in this page too. :) Maybe later I can help on it. ~Paulo -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates
Hi Paulo, Unfortunately, Impress is horribly buggy and not very intuitive sometimes. The program could use a complete overhaul, and the ODF (.odp) presentation format could use a serious update in order for LibO presentations to compare to MS Powerpoint or Keynote presentations. Some of your errors I haven't experienced but I have experienced other problems of my own. 2011/2/13 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com Assuming that I'm a really newbie to the Impress advanced usage (only almost now I discovery the master slide feature), I accept your help with pleasure! Well, my first questions are: * What is the best step-by-step to setup all the styles of boxes in a template? I mean, which the differences between use Styles in a Slide and in Master pages. In theory, if you change text in the master slide (ex: you change the font in Level 2 outline text) it should also change the Outline 2 text style. Additionally, changing an outline style (ex: the font change to Level 2) will change all the higher level outline styles (3-9 will also have a font change) since the styles are linked. * Is there a way to create guidelines and snap the content to them? Or even better, create snap points in a text box, so is possible to snap automatically any object to it, even if is moved or have its size changed? You can create guidelines and create a grid for the document. ViewGrid Show, ViewGuidesDisplay Guides and ViewGuidesSnap to Guides need to all be selected and for some reason are not by default (which I think should change). To change the grid resolution (which is set to 0.5 by default) go to LibreOfficePreferencesImpressGrid. Unfortunately, this change won't be saved to the template. * It's possibly to setup variables and others fields to presentations? Fields are extremely limited in Impress. Only the default fields will be accessible for the general user. :-( This means there are a lot of cool features we could add to Impress Templates that won't be accessible. * How can I create a index (summary) of slides and it's automatically updated? You can't... sort of... The InsertSummary Slide function creates a slide with a content box filled with the titles of each slide. It does not, however, update itself automatically. Additionally, it only adds Titles from the selected slide onward (so if you are on slide 7 or 9 slides and click create summary slide it will only create a summary that includes the titles of slides 7, 8 and 9). Essentially this function is useless for templates and inaccessible to most users since the command follows no common sense. I'm suffering with little bugs too... When I configure a Outline 3 style and save it, the Outline 1 style is changed to something completely different. Also the indentation of some styles [generally Outline 1] is changed by itself when I switch between slides. And even the line spacing is automatically changed from 125% (my setting) to 93% or 117%, randomly. Why these numbers? Why not 42%? :P Weird... Could you send the file to me directly. I will look at it and see if I can figure out why its doing this. Those things are really annoying and take a lot of time to correct... So if you're experiencing none of these bugs, I'll really thankful to left this formating job to you do. Thank you so much in advance for your help! Agreed! There are a lot of annoying bugs! I will try and make a list as I make templates but to be honest there are so many I currently find the task of recording the error, and creating a bug report for each very scary. Cheers, Jaron -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates
Hi LibO Designers, Quick question... Is anyone familiar with the following: - Right-to-left language templates (ex: Arabic, Hebrew) - Top-to-bottom language templates (ex: Chinese) I feel like it would be nice if we supported those with at least one general use template for each language direction. What do people think? I am personally completely unfamiliar with top-to-bottom languages in the context of presentations. Cheers, Jaron On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Kevin Soviero ksovi...@gmail.com wrote: Alright, How about we carve template design up into sections, one (or more) for each of us... For example, I am good at making the background (not just cause its easy ;)), and I can coordinate colors. We need someone to do the technical stuff (title placement, etc...) , and we need to come up with the subjects to base the templates on. Your list is a very good start though... Any other jobs you can think of? On 01/31/2011 08:43 PM, Paulo José wrote: It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be: 1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of presentation: school, enterprise, marketing... 2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites of slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I gives the feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template. 3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D Count with me, ~Paulo I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote: As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of templates from OOo Impress is terrible. I was wondering if I were to make a set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for Impress, if we could get them included by default? -- Kevin Soviero Email: ksovi...@gmail.com mailto:ksovi...@gmail.com Phone: (512) 672-9641 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates
Hi LibO Designers, Sorry for a second email already. ;-) I decided to send out a list of potential template categories that Kevin and I would use to guide our development of the default LibO templates. I wasn't sure how to get started so I thought about use cases for Impress and then created potential template categories as follows (with design concepts in parenthesizes): *Academic templates:* - Architecture/Engineering (I-beam or similar structural element) - Biology/Chemistry (chemical symbol or stylized chemical model) - Social Sciences (one template as a sociology image) - *Economics could overlap with Business template and Geography could overlap with travel* - Performing arts - History *Business Templates:* - Business logo oriented theme (could include directions in theme to substitute a company logo for a placeholder within the master) - Motivational: (Stylized human reaching for star) *Leisure home Templates: * - Photobooks (bound book look) - Weddings or other life-events - Sports (maybe a Futbol theme as it is the most popular sport internationally) *Nature and Travel Templates:* - Seasonal (perhaps a simple one for each season) - Nature and animals - Travel (Famous locations or a stylized map/compass) *General Templates:* - Solid color (currently available in LibO, so we should evaluate which ones we want to keep) - High contrast (Simple black on white or similar) - *Right-to-left language templates:* exs: Arabic, Hebrew - *Top-to-bottom language Templates:* exs: Chinese Please provide feedback or direction as Kevin and I move forward on developing a few templates. Thanks! Cheers, Jaron On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.com wrote: Hi LibO Designers, Quick question... Is anyone familiar with the following: - Right-to-left language templates (ex: Arabic, Hebrew) - Top-to-bottom language templates (ex: Chinese) I feel like it would be nice if we supported those with at least one general use template for each language direction. What do people think? I am personally completely unfamiliar with top-to-bottom languages in the context of presentations. Cheers, Jaron On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Kevin Soviero ksovi...@gmail.com wrote: Alright, How about we carve template design up into sections, one (or more) for each of us... For example, I am good at making the background (not just cause its easy ;)), and I can coordinate colors. We need someone to do the technical stuff (title placement, etc...) , and we need to come up with the subjects to base the templates on. Your list is a very good start though... Any other jobs you can think of? On 01/31/2011 08:43 PM, Paulo José wrote: It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be: 1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of presentation: school, enterprise, marketing... 2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites of slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I gives the feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template. 3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D Count with me, ~Paulo I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote: As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of templates from OOo Impress is terrible. I was wondering if I were to make a set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for Impress, if we could get them included by default? -- Kevin Soviero Email: ksovi...@gmail.com mailto:ksovi...@gmail.com Phone: (512) 672-9641 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates
Hi Kevin, I had attempted a long time ago a similar project for OOo before I became overwhelmed by other commitments and had to drop the topic. One minor issue I met with was finding templates that satisfied the design community while satisfying user expectations. What I mean is, users (according to the design community) often make horrible presentations; however, users expect certain features to be available in their design templates. Very slightly off-topic I think we could use a LibreOffice Impress template that could be very helpful for the community to make LibO presentations. Features could include using the paper tab (the top right of the logo) as bullets at the primary level, the LibO logo perhaps in the top left and then of course some nice and simple design background. (These are just suggestions you can do whatever you like, of course). Its not explicitly related to your topic but it could be really helpful for branding and the like if you have the time. Cheers, Jaron 2011/1/31 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be: 1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of presentation: school, enterprise, marketing... 2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites of slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I gives the feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template. 3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D Count with me, ~Paulo I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote: As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of templates from OOo Impress is terrible. I was wondering if I were to make a set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for Impress, if we could get them included by default? -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar
Hi Paulo, It looks like a good start. I will give you more feedback later, (I am busy at work). Cheers, Jaron 2011/2/1 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com Hello everybody! Some days ago, Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already knew issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the status bar. The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document when the document have not saved changes, and some people think may be better ways to represent this status. Looking up the past discussions about this issue to understand what was done, I found some interesting links [2] [3]. So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version, since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status bar icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to follow the suggestion of some people. Versions on 16x14px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg Versions on 14x11px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg I hope it can be useful in some way. :) Best regards, ~Paulo [1] Small Icon Artwork Project (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Kicking Off the LibreOffice Design Team) http://go.mail-archive.com/ZXUvilyqV8RdwiU-erOUILtRjfA [2] [Visual Design] Request for Icon Artwork (was: Re: [Libreoffice] [UX] LO status bar annoyances) http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00087.html [3] HackWeek – Minor polish http://kohei.us/2009/07/27/hackweek-minor-polish/ [4] New feature icons: Zoom Scaling Slider http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_icons_zoomslider.html#iconszoom -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Hi Bernhard, On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality? I think the Jaron gear works better at the 16px but Paulo's gear looks better at the 128px size. Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1? As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's. If you honestly think Paulo's gear is better don't include my change. I would rather the better icon be shipped out. My feelings won't be hurt. :-) I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template gradient in this source file: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to hand over to Thorsten tomorrow. So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else: In general the icons look great! My five dislikes are: (by the way it started at 2 and then I got really critical) 1) Calc 128px icon: The middle column at the top row is a little light. 2) Calc 128px icon: The lines on the bar graph next to the orange bar contrast too much 3) Draw 16px icon: I liked it better in a previous iteration where the triangle was the same equilateral triangle as in the other icons 4) Impress 128px icon: The shadow could be a little bit darker I think... (opacity changed to ~80) 5) HTML/Web 16px icon: If you take the 32px World and shrink it to the 16px world size and then change the web to 0.5 px width you get a nicer icon.* So really just nit-picky complaints. Like I said earlier, the icons look great! Everyone did such a good job! And thanks Bernhard for taking care of this at the last minute! Cheers, Jaron * I could see someone arguing against having such a small feature on the icon but I think the color matched better to the other icons and you can tell that at least there is something on the circle (i.e. it looks more like a globe) than simply a plain colored circle. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] CSS Styles for Website (Was: Problem with CSS)
Hi Ivan and Paulo, Please see [1] some new icons that use the correct shadowing. There are three different iterations of design (very subtle differences) which can be mixed and matched based on what people like. Essentially the top row is a reworked old style (incorrect shadowing) but may be useful at some later date for button clicks or the like. Then the bottom 3 rows are the new icons. I attempted to use the Vegur font for the i, !, and ? to be consistent with other LibO themes; however it had to be modified to be practical for the icons. Frankly I very much dislike the ? in the Vegur font and if people think its okay I can redesign the icons with non-Vegur font characters. Let me know what you like, dislike or if you want me to rework them entirely. Also, is there a wiki page for this topic? I can upload my source file. Cheers, Jaron [1] https://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5568013638479025490 On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.comwrote: Hi all, FYI, I am working on Ivan's request for more appropriate images. Actually I am done but have a busy evening so won't be able to send the final product until tomorrow morning (USA time). Cheers, Jaron 2011/1/28 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com Hey Ivan, great job! I liked your CSS styles and I love how you made use of :after, :before and box-shadow! They look great in both Firefox and Chrome. Did you test in Internet Explorer [Oh, the horror]? :P Anyway, really really good job, man! :D Just a think that came to me now... Would be great if you'll make some examples of Jquery use, I don't know, maybe in galleries, slideshows, these cool things. Or even of CSS transsitions! :) Thank you for your effort! This is much appreciate! ~Paulo On 28-01-2011 09:32, Ivan M. wrote: Hi all, Near the very end of the confcall, we discussed the need for a wider range of CSS styles on the website. I have created a few to get the ball rolling - you can see them at [1]. The CSS pertaining to these styles can be found at [2] Please feel free to propose other styles (especially text styles that can be used to make text-heavy pages a little more interesting). I was also wondering if someone could create more fitting images (information, warning, error, etc) which are in line with our branding style (e.g. using inner shadows and LibO colors)? The ones there are intended to be temporary and were sourced from [3]. Regards, Ivan. --- [1] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/index.html [2] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/new.css [3] http://itweek.deviantart.com/art/Knob-Buttons-Toolbar-icons-73463960 -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] 3 problems
Hi James, On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 4:54 AM, James A. Schulz jasch...@wiseware.comwrote: Christoph, No, I don't see anything in the new features that addresses the problems I listed. Let me try again: 1. The ghost icons I described in my original post can be see at: http://www.wiseware.com/LibreOffice/GhostIcons.jpg The picture is helpful. My PC is dead at the moment but I tried to find the same issues with the Mac version of LibO. Unfortunately, I can't duplicate that problem. Additionally, I can't even find those icons in the standard toolbar icon set. Three questions: 1) Do you have any Macros installed? 2) Do you have custom toolbars? 3) What commands are the buttons associated with? (Go to toolbars-customize...) 2. Create a new text document, type something, save it. No press the ALT-F(ile) key combination. Notice that the Save item on the File Menu is disabled. This means that if you are a user habituated to ALT-F-S, you end up stuck in the File Menu and you have to press ESC to return to your document. (Yes, I know that users habituated to CTRL-S don't have this problem, but that's not the point.) Why penalize users by requiring this extra key-stroke just because they tried to save the current document when it didn't need saving. Don't we want to encourage even such over-conscientious users to save whenever they happen to think of it. Real writing is an on-again-off-again sort of thing. One spends a good deal of time just staring at whatever paragraph happens to be on the screen at the moment. So the phone right, and you come out of that chance and before you answer the call, you press ALF-F-S just in case you hadn't thought to save before you went into your trance. And when you do that (i.e. press ALT-F-S) you end up stuck in the menu (and you are annoyed). MS Word does not do this. WordPerfect never did it. Why must writer do it. The right thing is never to disable the Save item. The system can avoid wasting its time by simply ignoring the unnecessary save command without punishing the user for issuing it. I believe the reason LibO disables save is to provide a means of feedback to the user that indeed their document is saved. I agree that it is unfair that the users that use ALT-F-S get stuck when they go to save since the command is disabled when a document is saved. 3. Open a new writer document. Notice that the window has the usual X window close button, but below that, in an otherwise empty bar that runs across the screen, there is another, smaller x' that closes only the document. Now open a second document. In this new window, there is only the X window close button (i.e. the document close button is not where to be seen). True, using the window close button in this second window returns you to the first document, but why show this inconsistent interface, i.e. why not make all document windows identical?. Of course, if LO would switch to (in my opinion) the vastly preferable Multiple Document Interface, that redesign would likely solve this problem. Once again with my PC on the fritz I cannot duplicate this issue. I believe I understand what you are talking about though. I agree that there should be consistency: 1) No documents have close buttons 2) All documents have close buttons Hopefully someone with a PC can duplicate the toolbar problem but please in the interim let me know what those buttons are. Cheers, Jaron -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Vegur font
Hi Hillar, all, I worked on a font once a long time ago so I could perhaps assist in the process but would be reluctant to take a leading role in the continued development of the font. Is there a list of desired characters for the font? If not I could start a page on developing the Vegur to create the remaining characters. Chances are most missing characters will be easy to create (ex: 'ñ' = '~' + 'n') plus the outline for the font is pretty straight forward. Cheers, Jaron On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi Hillar, all, Hillar Liiv schrieb: Hello! If You want Vegur be default font then we need to make missing characters. I made some of them (included light version only), That's just great! Thanks for starting this task. these needs to be reviewed. I've never worked on fonts - but perhaps anybody else? Some important characters are not done yet. Is somebody else working with Vegur? I'm not aware of anybody. Who is author of original Vegur font? It's Arro @ dotcolon.net I contacted him last year when we sought an official OOo font. He replied: At present, update is not scheduled. Please make to the outline and use it. There is no problem even if it freely customizes it. Best regards Bernhard PS: You used version 0.602 from the dotcolon website as basis? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] UX/Visual Design Description (Draft) (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Work on the libreoffice.org content - sitrep 2011/01/22)
Hi Christoph, David, As a native speaker I read through Christoph's write-up as per his request. Please consider the few grammatical changes bolded below. Cheers, Jaron On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: ### Start ### LibreOffice aims to be a great tool for people to let them create, edit and share any kind of information - enabling them to turn their ideas into documents. But offering that much capability doesn't require the software be complicated for all the different users ... The LibreOffice Design Team wants to Make it just work, and look great, too! by offering User Experience Design and Visual Identity Design. We need people to get involved in one or some of the following areas: * User Experience: User Experience considers the user's point-of-view even before and also during the use of LibreOffice. It aims for productivity, usability and enjoyment and targets both the website and the software. Interest in or available knowledge concerning research, design and evaluation methods make you wanted. * Visual Identity Design: Visual identity design is about creating stunning artwork to be used within LibreOffice, for the website and also in marketing material. *It also involves further improving the quality and consistency of the visual branding language* - which represents our whole community. * Accessibility: *Accessibility is about making the software usable for everyone* - people with and without disabilities. It considers applicable laws and required technologies to achieve this challenging goal. * User Support and Training: This is about sharing your experience when providing support and training for end-users. *It will help us to identify important areas for improvement, and identify essential requirements.* Consequently, if you want to work on improvements that target both the community *and our* large end-user base, then the Design Team is the right place for you. If you want to know more, please visit the Design Team wiki page. ### End ### -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeTyme icons - Macro
Hi Bernhard, I love the Macro icon concept. My only issue is the gear itself. Despite the fact that it looks rather like an involute gearhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involute_gearwhich as an engineer I really appreciate, I think it would be more recognizable as a square toothed gear, something like the gear in this logo (top left corner): ESW http://www.esustainableworld.org/ Also I feel like the gear could be a little larger at the 16px icon size. I will try my hand at it modifying it later today as I partially designed a modification to that logo and have the .svg file for it (somewhere...). Cheers, Jaron On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi all, Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] Here is the result: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icon_proposal.png I added the HC icons. I uploaded the source containing both (Macro and Writer/Web) icons to http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/3/3e/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons_Bernhard_draft_0-1.svg Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Naming and format of MimeType icons - request to developers
Thanks Bernhard! Cheers, Jaron P.S. I think it is extremely important for LibO and the Document Foundation to create an identity separate of that from OOo. Therefore I really hope we can get the icon set complete! On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: PERFECT! Thanks a lot ... Cheers, Christoph Am Donnerstag, den 13.01.2011, 18:47 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: Hi all, just to inform you: I posted a message to the developer list to find out how the icons should be formatted and called for easy inclusion in the packages: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-January/005839.html Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons - Draw
Hi Bernhard and Mirek, Thanks for the comments. On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: high contrast; if people like the proposal I will try and do them tomorrow. I think we need to get the symbols right at first, then we should implement them in the different icons. Agreed. I thought I might try my hand at simplified high contrast icon but will wait until later. (Especially as we switched the template and document icons - what has not been implemented in the source files uploaded. http://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5561372495654980738 Thanks for stepping in - even today I spent some more time on this icon, but I didn't find a better approach... There are three minor points I want to mention concerning your draft: 1. As the heavier items are in the upper area of the symbol it doesn't look very balanced. Even if I don't like to copy the ODF icons, perhaps we should move the rectangle up and the triangle / circle down. Hmmm, yes I see that now. I was attempting to keep your circle/triangle symbol for the small icon since it looks quite good. Maybe Christoph will play with the balance otherwise I may move stuff around. 2. I have a minor problem with the rectangle with handles lent from the ODF icons: Draw doesn't use round handles - and a rectangle has eight square handles. Polygons can be drawn with one handle on each corner, so you can create a rectangle with four of them - or a trapezoid, if it fits better with the overall design. Yes... I realize this is an issue. I feel like this came up before with the universal odf icon format. I think even though its not representative it may be universally understood. We could alternatively switch them to rectangular handles but I think having 8 would be excessive. That being said, I am not terribly attached to it so I won't really expend energy defending its use. I will think of some other subject for the icon. 3. I don't know if the white fill inside the triangle doesn't look too harsh - did you try the light yellow? (But this might be less visual, when the icons are switched to the lighter background). Agreed. That was a mistake on my part, more of an artifact left over from some experimentation. It looks better as a see-through object or as a light yellow. Cheers, Jaron -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Re: MimeType icons - Impress
Hi again! Here is my Impress logo proposal. I didn't have time to do the template or high contrast; if people like the proposal I will try and do them tomorrow. http://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#556137249351106 Cheers, Jaron On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.comwrote: Hi all, FYI I am trying my hand at the Impress logo. Cheers, Jaron -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons - Draw
Hi again! I tried my hand at the Draw icon. I didn't have time to do the template or high contrast; if people like the proposal I will try and do them tomorrow. http://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5561372495654980738 Cheers, Jaron On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi Jaron, all, Jaron Kuppers schrieb: Hi Bernhard, My comments are pretty much the same as Christoph's. The 3D look seems out of place, and a box with handles would look great (as shown in his link). I will play with your svg file if you put it up; playing around with it might spark some ideas for what else could be added. Draw is a surprisingly tough icon... I would greatly appreciate if everyone could put their svg files on the wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons I did :-) Best regards Bernhard PS: If you start working on the source file: My work is licensed under the triple license in the wiki (CC-by-sa, LGPL + MPL). If Christoph agrees to this tripe license, our work can easily be included in the product, when you keep these licenses. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons
Hi Christoph and others, I didn't follow my own advise! :-o (tsk tsk Jaron) I put up the source file now: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons_Jaron_draft_0-1.svg Cheers, Jaron On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: Hi all! First - I'm very sorry that I'm unable to add any comments or feedback today. But I tried to put all the effort in ... Am Mittwoch, den 12.01.2011, 23:51 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: (Especially as we switched the template and document icons - what has not been implemented in the source files uploaded. ... getting the basic file right. You can grab it here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/c/c3/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-Christoph.svg The properties page is here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-Christoph.svg And the wiki page is - you know - here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons @ Bernhard: Of course, I'll use the other license(s) - no bad intentions :-) I've got aware of the wiki change when I've uploaded the neutral TDF installer branding. The changes: * Removed the shadows of all application/document icons and resized all corresponding icons to use the available space (Feedback by Mirek who provided the platform specific shadow requirements; we may apply a drop shadow or something like that later ... at the moment it corresponds to the old Galaxy icons; but re-adding shadow requires proper resizing once more) * Exchanged the coloring between documents and templates - documents are now white/grayish, templates are more colored (Feedback by Nik, adapted feedback by Björn) * Re-added some color for very small icons (e.g. providing light green background for the Calc grid in 16px) (Adapted Feedback by Ivan to ensure proper color coding for small sized icons) * Base: Changed from 3-stack to 4-stack for the 128px Base icon (but kept the background, since it is really required to harmonize the icons, although I agree to the misleading meaning) (Feedback by Ivan) * Base: Added missing HC versions The downsides: * My grid inside the icons is broken (resizing issue), so that the binders now have a bit space at the top (I decided to put the remaining pixel to the top, because at the bottom it still is nicely aligned) * The icons - especially the application/document icons - look now rather simple. Some people may like it, some won't ... Note: I've kept the placeholders for the symbolism in each of the icons, so you'll know the required size of the symbols (since this has been discussed for the Draw icon). Note: To see the icons in their natural beauty (just kidding), please use 100% zoom, disable grid (#), disable all placeholder layers. This time, there is no nice preview - sorry! @ Bernhard: Tomorrow, I might help Jaron to polish the Impress icons (if he likes, but this requires the source ... and thanks to him to start working on that). And, I could pick Math if there is time left ... @ Bernhard 2: Thanks for your additions to the Wiki page :-) We run out of time a bit (but still, my feeling is much better than some days ago...), but we really need some knowledge how to export the icons (naming, maybe the source directory location). Could anybody take care of that and ask on the developers list? Otherwise I fear, that tasks like that keep us busy at the end :-\ Anybody else (maybe new guys) to pick some symbolism (Printer Administration and Macros are a challenge ... you finde more information in the wiki [1])? Thanks for all your work and feedback! Cheers, Christoph [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons#Document_Symbolism -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons
Hi, I think Bernhard's proposal is great. My time will free up after Wednesday so hopefully I can dedicate some serious time to looking over the icon set at that time. The icons currently look professional so I don't think that anyone would look poorly upon them. If we were to submit an icon set now, would we consider making a new set for the next release? Personally, I think we can have draft icons now and then create a final set later (with the intention of not changing them again for a long time). Cheers, Jaron P.S. On Mac's at least you almost never actually see the icons (you see a small document preview instead) so if they aren't up to our very strict standards no one will notice. ;-) On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: Hi Bernhard, all! Am Montag, den 10.01.2011, 00:03 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: At the moment I see one real problem: We run out of time! Aehm, yes, and I already missed to answer many of the mails today (like yours, or those by Björn). Sorry for that :-\ Therefore I would propose an approach like this: 1. step: Create icons for all the document types based on the present design. As the icon background is the same (with different colors), the main work is creating the symbols for the different sizes. Okay, I'd like to add - that mainly includes (from my point of view) to come up with sensible application symbolism. We need help here, for sure. 2. step: If we still have some time left, we can switch the template icons to document icons and create different ones (inverted? other ideas?) for templates. Yep, that should be possible. I already tried to improve the clarity of some of the template icons to make them more distinct. One thing that might be worth to add - I think the importance of the icons is different. The template icons show up rarely (as far as I know), therefore our main goal should be to ensure that they look different. If somebody opens Document from Template (for example), then the dialog itself helps to explain the meaning of the icons. So here, I'd like to say that Prio A is for document / application icons for Writer to Base. What do you all think - should we try to finalize this iconset in the two steps I describe above? +1 So, anybody who can spend some time to help with the icons? Unfortunately, I ran out of vacation, so that my contributions will decrease of the next days ... And, maybe some other motivation - there will be articles featuring LibreOffice when it is release. Since there is currently less difference to OOo (when looking at the GUI), our icons can provide a great way to ensure good visibility to the world. Does that sound good? ;-) Bernhard, thanks for going forward and providing this proposal. What do the others think/say? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons - template
Hi Bernhard, I think the large 3D binder spirals are too prominent. They distract me from the document and seem to over-shadow the components of the LibreOffice logo. The holes are not prominent enough... I am not able to try my hand at anything at the moment but I would recommend you try horizontal binders, similar to the small icon. Perhaps a gradient can give the binders a 3D ring effect. Horizontal binders might give us some freedom to find that happy medium between too big and too small. The Goldilocks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_the_Three_Bears size. :-) Happy new year everyone! Cheers, Jaron On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi all, Christoph, replying to this mail, because we discussed here the template symbols... Christoph Noack schrieb: [...] * Template icons now feature some college block binding I like these binders, they have to be created in detail for the larger icons. For the small 16px icons I prefer Jaron's smaller binding because they seem to be a bit better to discriminate. I will have a look at it, again. I tried to create some binders for the large detailed icons: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Writer_template_spiral_binding.png I'm not really satisfied with them: The upper version (a) with binding spiral adds some 3D-effect that is not present in the document icons. The binding spiral is very prominent. The lower version (b) shows only the holes, but they are very similar to the surrounding grey sheet. Perhaps there might be a solution in-between, but I'd like to ask you before I go on: What do you think should be the way to go? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
