Re: [libreoffice-design] Adding [UX] and [VI] tags to mail subjects?

2011-05-17 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi everyone,

Great idea!

I prefer to use shorter tags such as [UX] and [VI] as opposed to full
words.  Otherwise the subject of the email may get cut off, especially since
all our emails are automatically tagged with the list at the beginning ex:
[libreoffice-design][UX].

As for the specific tags I would prefer [UX] and [BD] (Branding Design) and
of course no tag would be general purpose (such as announcements).  Later we
might add 1 or 2 more but I think it should be kept very simple, otherwise
new members might get confused about which tags to use.

Cheers,
Jaron



On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 Hi all,

 would you like to add special tags to the subjects of your mails to show
 even more clearly, if the topic related to User Experience [UX] or Visual
 Identity / Branding Design [VI]?

 This might make it easier to browse the list for topics you are interested
 in.

 Do you think this makes sense?

 Best regards

 Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] some backgrounds for libreoffice

2011-04-06 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Gaël,

Additionally, please feel free to look at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Presentation_Templates which has
the beginning structure of a working page for the Impress Backgrounds.  I
started an effort to critique the current templates and propose a structure
to update the default templates to provide as many functional backgrounds as
possible.  The work has been delayed but if you are interested in helping
please let us know.

Cheers,
Jaron



On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 Hi Vamsi, Gael, all

 Vamsi Kodali schrieb:

  Gael,

 that link does not work!


 Here it does...


 On Apr 5, 2011, at 4:12 PM, gael.lori...@laposte.net wrote:

  Hi again,

 it's here:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:PresentationBackgrounds.zip

  Gael wrote in his first mail:

  Please find attached some presentation backgrounds I've been making and
 using in my presentation. Some are better than others, you might want to
 start checking out LightWave or colorUnite first.


 I personally like the ColorUnite (perhaps in lighter green and orange) and
 Dashed versions most.

 LightWave resembles me too much to OOo, Neuron and Rays might be
 interesting for some special target groups.

 We already thought about and started working on Impress templates - would
 you like to join this effort?

 If so, please read the thread starting with this mail:
 http://go.mail-archive.com/tUffHudsOdQIw8BOmzcWqhsiG0c=

 If you feel comfortable here, stay and keep on contributing depending on
 your time and interests - and if not, please tell us, what we could do
 better...

 Best regards

 Bernhard


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Save As file format redundancy

2011-03-23 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi all,

FYI It is not present in the Mac version either.

Cheers,
Jaron


On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 Hi Daniel, hi Jared,

 I'm having a LibreOffice 3.3.1 on Ubuntu with Gnome specific file
 dialogs - it only states ODT Text Document (.odt).

 Do you use Windows? If yes, then it might relate to how the entries of
 this drop-down are created by the operating system: the first string
 (see above) being the one by LibO, the second part added by Windows.
 Okay, this is just a guess and doesn't excuse such weird
 behavior ... :-)

 Cheers,
 Christoph


 Am Dienstag, den 22.03.2011, 12:52 + schrieb Daniel Merker:
  Unfortunately, I think in those cases you will have some redundancy, but
 I do agree that the listing of the file extensions at the end ise a bit
 much. The second set of parenthesis should be removed. As a programmer, I
 know the star is technically important; with that said, I think most users
 naturally understand that the extension is placed at the end of a file (and
 LibreO codebase knows that too). Therefore, I would recommend the following
 to reduce redundancy:
 
  ODT Text Document (.odt) (*.odt) = be changed to = ODT Text Document
 (.odt)
 
  -Daniel Merker
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Jared Meidal [mailto:jmei...@worldimpact.org]
  Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:07 AM
  To: design@libreoffice.org
  Subject: [libreoffice-design] Save As file format redundancy
 
  Is it necessary to list the file format extensions twice in the drop down
 list of file formats when in the Save As dialog box?
 
 
  e.g. ODT Text Document (.odt) (*.odt)
 
 
  is it really necessary to list odt twice (or even thrice!)?
 
 
  Thank you!
 
 
  --Jared
 
 
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar

2011-03-06 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Paulo, Christoph,

Wow... I can't believe its been so long.  This thread took quite the nap.

I also like Style 1 best, top right corner, and 14x11.  Although the
orange seems a bit loud.  I guess that is acceptable since it is likely the
most appropriate color from our arsenal.  It seems fine in Christoph's
example.  You may consider matching the gradient for the outline of the page
in your icon to match the page icons in the zoom toolbar if they are going
to be located so close.  It may also give the icon a little more attention.

Other than that, I think its great!  Good job!

Cheers,
Jaron




On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 Hi all!

 Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 18:59 -0200 schrieb Paulo José:
  Hello everybody!
 
  Some days ago

 Some weeks ago ... sorry for the long delay :-\

  , Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already
  knew issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the
  status bar. The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document
  when the document have not saved changes, and some people think may be
  better ways to represent this status.

 [...]

  So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this
  behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version,
  since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status
  bar icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to
  follow the suggestion of some people.

 Thank you so much, Paulo. Personally, I think the Style 1 (upper
 right) works best. The main reason is, that the shape of the document is
 preserved well - although the icon is so tiny. And, the star seems to
 appear quite balanced in this version.

 I first worried about the orange color, because usually yellow is used
 for indicating new. But of course - yellow is (given the constraints)
 almost invisible, so orange seems a great compromise.

 What else? Mmh, I think the 14x11px version fits better to the overall
 style of the status bar. The larger ones seem to be out of place
 somehow.

 So, if somebody wants to have a look at it - I've created an example by
 adding Paulo's icon to a simple status bar image:

 https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tLL1kYfD-fNZ8d5wkSzydA?feat=directlink

 Any further thoughts? To me, it's already an improvement - so I'm happy
 to export the icons and create an issue for that.

 I'll keep the source ...

  Versions on 16x14px:
 
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg
  Versions on 14x11px:
 
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg
 
  I hope it can be useful in some way. :)

 By the way, I hope everybody noticed the interview with Paulo - I
 discovered more or less accidentally :-)

 http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/03/04/interview-with-paulo-jose-o-amaro/

 Cheers,
 Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo

2011-03-04 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Joey,

Sorry to disappoint after all your work but I took a poll at work and it was
unianimous... people liked the original logo better.  They thought it was
easier to read (f's are too close) and they thought the f connecting to the
i was out of place with the rest of the logo.

Vote: Original

Jaron





On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Johannes Bausch
johannes.bau...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hey,

 okay, I've tried to set up a voting page for us, see here:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey/Ligatures

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey/LigaturesDo you all have
 write access to this page? I am not that experienced with wikis.

 @Bernhard: I've shifted the i more to the left. I've also redone the visual
 kerning for some of the letters; have a look at the scaled-down versions,
 it
 should look more even now.

 @all: It would be great if you voted on the wiki or here on the mailing
 list. Even if you disapprove of this poll it would be great to get some
 more
 opinions on this; so far it's only five people who talk about it.

 Thanks,
 Joey

 PS: I'll be away until Wednesday next week.

 2011/3/2 Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at

  Hi Joey, all,
 
  replying to both of your mails, so please scroll down until the end...
 
  Johannes Bausch schrieb:
 
  Hey,
 
  to gather some more opinions I thought it would be a good idea to have a
  poll somewhere else, so I asked people in a forum to cast their vote.
  Although I don't know whether this was a good idea (not really
  representative, game design forum, so people might be programmers) I
  thought
  you might be interested in the results:
  http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Poll.png
 
 
  It's impossible to see the different alternatives, because at my computer
  the background is nearly black.
 
  Ii updated the image with a slightly lighter grey background, so you can
  see the different alternatives, but keep the white text of the poll
 results.
 
   Apparently noone likes the
  too fancy ligatures. Most people also complained about the logo in
  general,
  so I tried to explain why this is (and remains, for now) the logo of
 LibO.
  If you're interested in the comments, too, I'll send you the link.
  So... in the next days I'll make some final drafts and put up a voting
  page.
  If you have some final ideas please tell me.
 
 
  People seem to like the last alternative (with f bow bent towards the
 i
  dot) as much as the original.
 
  Even if this is far from being representative, I'd like to see a
 finalized
  version of this proposal.
 
  Could you improve this by moving the i nearer to the f? I don't think
  that equal spacing for the dot between f and i looks best...
 
  Perhaps a combination of your third an my proposal?
 
 
  Greetings,
  Joey
 
  2011/3/2 Johannes Bauschjohannes.bau...@gmail.com
 
   Hey Bernhard,
 
  2011/3/2 Bernhard Dippoldbernh...@familie-dippold.at
 
  In your reply to my last mail I understood you in a way that you wanted
  to
 
  work on a new proposal.
 
   I added a third alternative (which I don't like very much). The logos
  on my
  page are only drafts; if we decide on one of them, I'll spend more time
  on
  it. At the moment I don't have another idea how to deal with the
 ligature
  -
  do you? I'd be more than glad to try another one.
 
 
  Like your poll members I like this proposal best, but it needs some more
  tweaking (I mentioned above).
 
  I don't think that there are so many alternatives to modify the two f
 and
  the i, so I don't have any other reliable alternative in mind.
 
 
 
   [...]
 
 
  But what we need to keep in mind: Changes being recognized by the
 average
 
  user / viewer will more likely be postponed until a new major or minor
  version
  than modifications leading only to a more balanced, professional and
  consistent visual impression.
 
   +1, I agree.
 
 
  In my eyes proposals (c) and (d) might fall in the balanced category,
  while (a) and (b) would be more recognizable as modified details.
 
   Who has the final word on that?
 
 
  The SC, but they probably support a decision by the Design Team.
 
  Best regards
 
  Bernhard
 
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft

2011-03-04 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Nik,

I would love to be involved but unfortunately I still feel that I don't
fully understand what is desired in the motif (what is the end
deliverable).  Of course, design is not my main background (mechanical
engineering is) so hopefully once design proposals go up I can contribute.
I look forward to seeing motif's!

Cheers,
Jaron




On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Nik n...@tdf.nikashsingh.com wrote:

 Hi Design!

 2 more days to go until the brainstorming of motif ideas is over and we
 begin design proposals (on Monday).
 Head over to this page for more information;

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif


 On 2/28/2011 10:45 AM, Christoph Noack wrote:

 Hi Bernhard, hi Nik, all!

 I'd like to second Bernhard's Thank you!, since you take care of this
 topic!

 No problem, but time is running out for me unfortunately,
 one of you guys may have to take over before the task is complete =(

 Am Sonntag, den 27.02.2011, 22:36 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:

 What we should add to the motif page are the examples used already:


 - the single triangle (like the bullet points on the website)
 - the grouped fading triangles in the left upper and right lower corner
  (from the start center)
 - Paulo's idea of five colored triangles sticked together in a vertical
 row
  (on his light banners in the donate button)
 - outer border with rounded corners and cut-off right upper corner
   (don't know if this really qualifys as motif, but it has an impact on
 the
general visual impression)
  ... any others?

 Hi Bernhard and Christoph,
 I've added your respective comments on the motif page and listed the
 previous attempts list Bernhard summarised above (but haven't linked any
 because I'm short on time).


  Thanks for the nice collection - close to motif had been used for the
 presentation template. The outline of the triangles in the
 background ...

 http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/libreoffice-presentation-template-first.html

 There is one item which is even less a motiv, but repeated throughout
 many of the graphics for the software: a non-symmetrical circular color
 gradient, and some linear gradients in the header and footer. An
 early version:

 http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements.html

 I'm glad to include these on the page, but we should expect that these
 previous elements will have no significant bearing on the Motif
 yet-to-be-designed.
 I don't like carrying-over elements just because they have been used, I
 think it would be better to craft new elements from scratch with clear
 purpose+intentions+context from the beginning.

 Cheers,
 Christoph

  Looking forward to some sexy motif proposals real soon crew!
 -Nik


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout

2011-03-04 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi all,

I like both ideas but lean towards Andrews suggestion.

I would like to instead propose a different approach but perhaps from a
coding perspective it would not be an easy hack.  There was discussion
over the years on the OOo list about changing the background from the dull
gray to something more upbeat.  Perhaps the 'shadow' could be integrated
into a new customization feature that allows the user to change the
background and the shadow.  Unfortunately, I can't recall how difficult this
is... (I seem to recall some large problem in the code that made this
difficult, but it may have been an issue).

Cheers,
Jaron





On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Andrew rugby...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 04/03/11 07:42, Sébastien Le Ray wrote:
  Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:35:11 +0100,
  Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com a écrit :
 
  Hi Sébastien, hi all!
 
 
  Hi
 
  Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 14:16 +0100 schrieb Sébastien Le Ray:
  Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +,
  Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com a écrit :
 
  [...]
 
  Although I didn't see it yet, thanks for your work - I'm really
  looking forward.
 
  You can find a screenshot on
  http://misc.orniz.org/libreoffice/lo-shadow.png book mode is also
  handled nicely...
 
  [...]
 
 
  However, I'd like to provide some pointers to the Notes stuff - it's
  really worth spending some time digging through some of the
  descriptions (in my point-of-view). I think this is better than
  pre-process most of the stuff, since I'm unaware of your likings :-)
 
  The notes main wiki page (Notes2 because of the CWS that time):
  http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2
 
  Here are the links to the detailed designs that had (sometimes) to be
  adapted due to technical constraints nobody spent the time for:
  http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Status_and_Proposals
 
  And once finished with the default stuff, we have lots of further
  ideas: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_OtherIdeas
 
 
  Personally, I've already spend over one year with the Notes project
  being the UX representative, so I'd like to work with you on that - if
  you like :-)
 
  I'll be pleased to :) It'd be nice to have a UI tasks on libreoffice
  wiki presenting all tasks that are ready on a Design point of view but
  that have not yet been implemented.
  There is a lot of stuff on the Note2 wiki page, could you give
  priorities on various items?
 
  [...]
 
 
  If you are generally interested in working on Usability / Visual
  Design topics (of course, from the developer's point-of-view - and we
  really need some understanding and support here), feel invited to
  subscribe to the Design Team mailing list - some more information can
  be found here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design
 
  Subscribed yesterday :-)
  It seems that you've been busy with more marketting stuff that UI
  design lately to cover the launch of LO, FOSDEM and funraising
 
  Waiting for you priorities  mockups on notes work :-)
 
  Sébastien
 
 

 Hi All and Sebastien :)

 Regarding that patch, I think that what we have in that screenshot is a
 definite improvement, but I feel we could do better, and hopefully
 without a lot more work.

 If you look at the mockup I attached to the bug report, I feel this
 looks a lot more modern and professional.
 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=39920

 I feel if instead of having that shadow aligned to the bottom left,
 instead it is centred on the page, and we have a slightly larger blur
 radius we can make it look a lot better.

 Is this just me, or do other think this as well?

 --
 Andrew

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Using a Gallery table in the wiki to provide design resources?

2011-03-01 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Bernhard,

I think it is a great idea!  It worked really well on the OOo wiki and I
think it will work again!

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 Hi all,

 as this topic is relevant for design and marketing, I don't see a way to
 avoid cross-posting. Follow-up on the marketing list please.

 During the last weeks several people worked on design elements to be used
 in order to improve knowledge and public awareness for LibreOffice.

 Marc is working hard to put them all together on the marketing wiki, but I
 feel that we still miss an easy entry point for people interested in using
 such resources on their website, for marketing activities and so on.

 Back in OOo times we had a gallery showing different categories of such
 artwork which served quite well for people searching for a web button, a
 banner or a CD/DVD label.

 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/Gallery

 Before I start working on migrating this gallery to our wiki (as I created
 it, there is no licensing issue), I'd like to ask your opinion:

 Do you think this is a good approach?

 In contrast to the OOo gallery I'd like to see this wiki page as entry
 point to the officially approved designs - positioned at the marketing area
 of the wiki (at least until we put them up on the website).

Agreed.  It should be explicit what objects in the gallery are official
and which ones are unofficial designs so that marketing can make really
good use of the area.  (We keep getting lots of questions on the design list
about different resources.)



 The development area on the design wiki might get a similar entry point
 (for contributors, including the official source file necessary for using
 them as basis for branding based design), but I think the marketing / user /
 supporter resources are more important at the moment.

Agreed.  It seems right now design is okay with sending links or making
temporary wiki pages for current projects (motif for example).



 Any questions? proposals? ideas?

Perhaps I will have more constructive feedback when the page starts to take
shape.

Cheers,
Jaron

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Branding resources - external and internal use, or ... ?

2011-03-01 Thread Jaron Kuppers
HI Christoph, Bernhard,

Side note: Where can I find the Steering Committee call for Trademark
Guidlines?  Or for that matter any Steering Committee actions... I can't
find any SC meeting notes from 2011 on the wiki.

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 Hi Bernhard, hi all!

 There has been the SC call today, and one of the topics was Trademark
 Guideline along with the logos for external use. That made me think ...

 I've had a look at the branding page [1]. To me, personally, the naming
 resources for external use looks a bit strange. Since most people
 might go to this page to find out about the logos for the wider
 community, external use might miss the point a bit. At the end, they
 don't feel like externals.

 So my proposal would be to differentiate between resources for TDF
 use (or official use), and resources for the LibreOffice community.
 Would that be fine? Do you think that's appropriate with regard to the
 trademark guidelines?

This seems confusing to me...  I may think that resources for the
LibreOffice community cannot be used externally (at a conference, for
example).  The wording here is really tough...  Perhaps instead we could
consider for wording, *Non-community member resources*.  The logos that
appear there can redundantly appear in the *resources for the LibreOffice
Community* to avoid any confusion.  That way community members always go to
the same page and non-community members always go to the same page.

It is very confusing right now what materials can be officially used for
what purposes (which is natural since we are so young).  Bernhard's gallery
should help in arranging the available material but I think the
marketing/branding pages should have explicit directions for Non-community
members and Community members so that it is clear what resources they can
use.

Just my 2 cents...

Cheers,
Jaron

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Re: [libreoffice-design] [approval request] Challenge banner proposals by Paulo

2011-02-25 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi all,


On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 2nd topic: Approval of Paulo's skyscraper banner

 I would ask you to approve the skyscraper (160x600px) vertical banner as
 official design element to be used on external websites:

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-The-Challenge-Banner-Paulo-v2-dark.png

 This banner is perfect in my eyes:

High praise!  I too think its a great banner:
+1




 Third topic: The 300x250px rectangle banners

 Even if several team members like these banners too, I personally think
 that they might look even better, if they could be modified a bit. That's
 the reason why I don't ask for approval for these banners too.

 Looking at the motif discussion (I support it - even if I didn't have the
 time to comment by now), I would like to see the graphic at the donate
 button to be discussed in this thread: It combines known elements
 (triangles, colors) to a new distinct element. As this is the only colored
 element on the banner, my feeling is, that it leads too far away from our
 present branding. If we would integrate it as central branding element, it
 would fit very well here... But at the moment I could imagine one of our
 present elements better.

 And another thought: In comparison to the skyscraper banner the wording is
 focused on The Challenge in the middle, while the logo above has a bolder
 font than the text below. This leads (in my personal opinion - not at all
 the absolute truth) to some kind of imbalance with the more heavy parts at
 the top. If they would be taken as title, this would be okay, but without
 more text below (building a good foundation just be the larger area filled)
 I don't feel totally comfortable.

 Perhaps I would feel better, if the areas would be switched (like on the
 skyscraper?) - I don't know.



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Re: [libreoffice-design] Blog Posting: ODF Mime Type Icons Redesign

2011-02-23 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Christoph,

Thanks!  That was a very insightful article!  I learn more about design
every day.

Cheers,
Jaron


On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 Andreas from the OpenOffice.org UX Team published a blog post with some
 interesting insights concerning some ODF icons improvements ... so if
 you like to have a look at it, here you go.

 ODF Mime Type Icons Redesign
 http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/odf_mime_type_icons_redesign

 Cheers,
 Christoph




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Re: [libreoffice-design] icon proposal (draft)

2011-02-17 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Tobias,

The list does not allow for attachments.  Please upload your icons to a 3rd
party site or the document foundation wiki.  Thanks!

Cheers,
Jaron


On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Tobias Bernard berto...@gmail.com wrote:

 hi

 here are some icon drafts.
 i started from the 256px icons from the svg on the wiki and added these
 square-based pictograms.
 these pictograms maybe don't give as much infomation as the current ones,
 but in my opinion they have a cleaner style and don't look so crowded.
 i know you decided to use a white background but there's also a trial with
 colored background.

 these icons need much more details, such as shadows, gradients etc but they
 show the basic idea.

 what do you think?

 greetings
 tobias

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

2011-02-13 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Ricardo,

Good point!  I will make sure to add that to the wiki page.

Cheers,
Jaron

On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:41 PM, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 One problem I can see on many templates is the use of proprietary
 font, like arial, times new roman, thorndale, etc: none of those fonts
 are installed on my Linux system, for instance.
 I think that a LibO default template must use the fonts delivered with
 LibO, otherwise there will be compatibility issues on different
 platforms and that's not good.
 Cheers,
 Ricardo

 2011/2/12 Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.com:
  Hi everyone,
 
  I have updated the wiki page significantly.
  http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Presentation_Templates
 
 
  I added a new section which I hope can be used to critique the existing
  default templates many of which (from my attempts to review each one)
 have
  problems such as font choice (serif fonts should be frowned upon),
 alignment
  issues (content and title area's improperly aligned), inadequate
 background
  images (too bright or distracting) and bullet indentation (too large an
  indentation makes second level numbered content, and higher numbered
  content, space inefficient).  Please feel free to look over my work and
 add
  your own critiques of the existing default templates.
 
  In other news, I added Paulo's Green Theme to the wiki with a link to
 his
  blog page.  It looks good Paulo I can't wait to see bullets.  If you need
  help with setting up a master page for your template let me know and I
 can
  help.  If you send me your background image and bullet images along with
  your desired fonts I can create the template for you.
 
  Please let me know if there are things on the wiki page you want changed,
 or
  you can just change them yourself. :-)
 
  Cheers,
  Jaron
 
 
 
 
  On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  Thanks for the feedback.  I have started a wiki page as recommended by
  Bernhard at:
   http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Presentation_Templates
 
  Hopefully, I can finish cleaning it up and filling it out later this
  evening.  Once I get the page completed I will send an invitation to the
  Docs group for collaboration.  Is there anyone else that I should
 involve?
 
  Cheers,
  Jaron
 
 
 
 
  2011/2/10 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com
 
  On 10-02-2011 08:58, Bernhard Dippold wrote:
 
  ... and Kevin! :-)
 
  *:) Yeah, and Kevin for the great idea, as I've said. :-P
 
 
  On 09-02-2011 19:25, Christoph Noack wrote:
 
  Hi Jaron!
 
  Am Montag, den 07.02.2011, 16:36 -0500 schrieb Jaron Kuppers:
 
  Please provide feedback or direction as Kevin_Items and I move
 forward
  on
  developing a few templates. Thanks!
 
 
  If you didn't already (sorry if I don't remember every mail I read
 during
  the last week), would you mind to create a dedicated wiki page for the
  presentation template work?
 
  Something like
 
  http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Presentation_Templates
 
  (Any better structure idea welcome)
 
  I think it might be a good idea to collect the template categories and
  some more specific information there, allowing others (from other
 teams, if
  interested) to join.
 
   It will be very useful and I hope to see it soon fill up with good
 ideas
  from all. :D I didn't see the Christoph's link with the user feedback
 about
  templates, but I think would be nice to include its information in this
 page
  too. :) Maybe later I can help on it.
 
  ~Paulo
 
 
  --
  Paulo José O. Amaro
  Computer Science Student
  Federal University of São João del-Rei
  WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
  Blogger / casatwain.com
 
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

2011-02-13 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Paulo,

Unfortunately, Impress is horribly buggy and not very intuitive sometimes.
The program could use a complete overhaul, and the ODF (.odp) presentation
format could use a serious update in order for LibO presentations to compare
to MS Powerpoint or Keynote presentations.  Some of your errors I haven't
experienced but I have experienced other problems of my own.


2011/2/13 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com

 Assuming that I'm a really newbie to the Impress advanced usage (only
 almost now I discovery the master slide feature), I accept your help with
 pleasure! Well, my first questions are:
 * What is the best step-by-step to setup all the styles of boxes in a
 template? I mean, which the differences between use Styles in a Slide and in
 Master pages.

In theory, if you change text in the master slide (ex: you change the font
in Level 2 outline text) it should also change the Outline 2 text style.
Additionally, changing an outline style (ex: the font change to Level 2)
will change all the higher level outline styles (3-9 will also have a font
change) since the styles are linked.



 * Is there a way to create guidelines and snap the content to them? Or even
 better, create snap points in a text box, so is possible to snap
 automatically any object to it, even if is moved or have its size changed?

You can create guidelines and create a grid for the document.  ViewGrid
Show, ViewGuidesDisplay Guides and ViewGuidesSnap to Guides need to
all be selected and for some reason are not by default (which I think should
change).
To change the grid resolution (which is set to 0.5 by default) go to
LibreOfficePreferencesImpressGrid.  Unfortunately, this change won't be
saved to the template.



 * It's possibly to setup variables and others fields to presentations?

Fields are extremely limited in Impress.  Only the default fields will be
accessible for the general user. :-(
This means there are a lot of cool features we could add to Impress
Templates that won't be accessible.



 * How can I create a index (summary) of slides and it's automatically
 updated?

You can't... sort of...  The InsertSummary Slide function creates a slide
with a content box filled with the titles of each slide.  It does not,
however, update itself automatically.  Additionally, it only adds Titles
from the selected slide onward (so if you are on slide 7 or 9 slides and
click create summary slide it will only create a summary that includes the
titles of slides 7, 8 and 9).
Essentially this function is useless for templates and inaccessible to most
users since the command follows no common sense.



 I'm suffering with little bugs too... When I configure a Outline 3 style
 and save it, the Outline 1 style is changed to something completely
 different. Also the indentation of some styles [generally Outline 1] is
 changed by itself when I switch between slides. And even the line spacing is
 automatically changed from 125% (my setting) to 93% or 117%, randomly. Why
 these numbers? Why not 42%? :P

Weird...  Could you send the file to me directly.  I will look at it and see
if I can figure out why its doing this.



 Those things are really annoying and take a lot of time to correct... So if
 you're experiencing none of these bugs, I'll really thankful to left this
 formating job to you do. Thank you so much in advance for your help!

Agreed!  There are a lot of annoying bugs!  I will try and make a list as I
make templates but to be honest there are so many I currently find the task
of recording the error, and creating a bug report for each very scary.

Cheers,
Jaron

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

2011-02-07 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi LibO Designers,

Quick question...  Is anyone familiar with the following:
- Right-to-left language templates  (ex: Arabic, Hebrew)
- Top-to-bottom language templates  (ex: Chinese)

I feel like it would be nice if we supported those with at least one general
use template for each language direction.  What do people think?  I am
personally completely unfamiliar with top-to-bottom languages in the context
of presentations.

Cheers,
Jaron




On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Kevin Soviero ksovi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Alright, How about we carve template design up into sections, one (or more)
 for each of us...

 For example, I am good at making the background (not just cause its easy
 ;)), and I can coordinate colors.  We need someone to do the technical stuff
 (title placement, etc...) , and we need to come up with the subjects to base
 the templates on.  Your list is a very good start though...

 Any other jobs you can think of?


 On 01/31/2011 08:43 PM, Paulo José wrote:

 It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be:
 1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of
 presentation: school, enterprise, marketing...
 2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites of
 slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I gives the
 feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template.
 3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D

 Count with me,
 ~Paulo

 I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P

 On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote:

 As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of
 templates from OOo Impress is terrible.  I was wondering if I were to make a
 set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for Impress, if we
 could get them included by default?




 --
 Kevin Soviero
 Email: ksovi...@gmail.com mailto:ksovi...@gmail.com
 Phone: (512) 672-9641

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

2011-02-07 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi LibO Designers,

Sorry for a second email already. ;-)
I decided to send out a list of potential template categories that Kevin and
I would use to guide our development of the default LibO templates.  I
wasn't sure how to get started so I thought about use cases for Impress and
then created potential template categories as follows (with design concepts
in parenthesizes):

*Academic templates:*
 - Architecture/Engineering (I-beam or similar structural element)
 - Biology/Chemistry (chemical symbol or stylized chemical model)
 - Social Sciences (one template as a sociology image)
 - *Economics could overlap with Business template and Geography could
overlap with travel*
 - Performing arts
 - History
*Business Templates:*
 - Business logo oriented theme (could include directions in theme to
substitute a company logo for a placeholder within the master)
 - Motivational: (Stylized human reaching for star)
*Leisure  home Templates:
* - Photobooks (bound book look)
 - Weddings or other life-events
 - Sports (maybe a Futbol theme as it is the most popular sport
internationally)
*Nature and Travel Templates:*
 - Seasonal (perhaps a simple one for each season)
 - Nature and animals
 - Travel (Famous locations or a stylized map/compass)
*General Templates:*
 - Solid color (currently available in LibO, so we should evaluate which
ones we want to keep)
 - High contrast (Simple black on white or similar)
 - *Right-to-left language templates:* exs: Arabic, Hebrew
 - *Top-to-bottom language Templates:* exs: Chinese

Please provide feedback or direction as Kevin and I move forward on
developing a few templates.  Thanks!

Cheers,
Jaron





On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi LibO Designers,

 Quick question...  Is anyone familiar with the following:
 - Right-to-left language templates  (ex: Arabic, Hebrew)
 - Top-to-bottom language templates  (ex: Chinese)

 I feel like it would be nice if we supported those with at least one
 general use template for each language direction.  What do people think?  I
 am personally completely unfamiliar with top-to-bottom languages in the
 context of presentations.

 Cheers,
 Jaron




 On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Kevin Soviero ksovi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Alright, How about we carve template design up into sections, one (or
 more) for each of us...

 For example, I am good at making the background (not just cause its easy
 ;)), and I can coordinate colors.  We need someone to do the technical stuff
 (title placement, etc...) , and we need to come up with the subjects to base
 the templates on.  Your list is a very good start though...

 Any other jobs you can think of?


 On 01/31/2011 08:43 PM, Paulo José wrote:

 It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be:
 1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of
 presentation: school, enterprise, marketing...
 2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites
 of slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I gives
 the feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template.
 3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D

 Count with me,
 ~Paulo

 I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P

 On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote:

 As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of
 templates from OOo Impress is terrible.  I was wondering if I were to make 
 a
 set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for Impress, if we
 could get them included by default?




 --
 Kevin Soviero
 Email: ksovi...@gmail.com mailto:ksovi...@gmail.com
 Phone: (512) 672-9641

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Re: [libreoffice-design] CSS Styles for Website (Was: Problem with CSS)

2011-02-02 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi all,

I didn't really like the Vegur font icon items so I remade them... see [1]
bottom row.

Cheers,
Jaron

[1] https://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5569103899631190338

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Ivan and Paulo,

 Please see [1] some new icons that use the correct shadowing.  There are
 three different iterations of design (very subtle differences) which can
 be mixed and matched based on what people like.  Essentially the top row is
 a reworked old style (incorrect shadowing) but may be useful at some later
 date for button clicks or the like.  Then the bottom 3 rows are the new
 icons.  I attempted to use the Vegur font for the i, !, and ? to be
 consistent with other LibO themes; however it had to be modified to be
 practical for the icons.  Frankly I very much dislike the ? in the Vegur
 font and if people think its okay I can redesign the icons with non-Vegur
 font characters.

 Let me know what you like, dislike or if you want me to rework them
 entirely.  Also, is there a wiki page for this topic?  I can upload my
 source file.

 Cheers,
 Jaron

 [1]
 https://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5568013638479025490





 On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 FYI, I am working on Ivan's request for more appropriate images.
 Actually I am done but have a busy evening so won't be able to send the
 final product until tomorrow morning (USA time).

 Cheers,
 Jaron



 2011/1/28 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com

 Hey Ivan, great job!

 I liked your CSS styles and I love how you made use of :after, :before
 and box-shadow! They look great in both Firefox and Chrome. Did you test in
 Internet Explorer [Oh, the horror]? :P Anyway, really really good job, man!
 :D

 Just a think that came to me now... Would be great if you'll make some
 examples of Jquery use, I don't know, maybe in galleries, slideshows, these
 cool things. Or even of CSS transsitions! :)

 Thank you for your effort! This is much appreciate!
 ~Paulo



 On 28-01-2011 09:32, Ivan M. wrote:

 Hi all,

 Near the very end of the confcall, we discussed the need for a wider
 range of CSS styles on the website. I have created a few to get the
 ball rolling - you can see them at [1]. The CSS pertaining to these
 styles can be found at [2]

 Please feel free to propose other styles (especially text styles that
 can be used to make text-heavy pages a little more interesting).
 I was also wondering if someone could create more fitting images
 (information, warning, error, etc) which are in line with our branding
 style (e.g. using inner shadows and LibO colors)? The ones there are
 intended to be temporary and were sourced from [3].

 Regards,
 Ivan.

 ---
 [1] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/index.html
 [2] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/new.css
 [3]
 http://itweek.deviantart.com/art/Knob-Buttons-Toolbar-icons-73463960



 --
 Paulo José O. Amaro
 Computer Science Student
 Federal University of São João del-Rei
 WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
 Blogger / casatwain.com


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates

2011-02-01 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Kevin,

I had attempted a long time ago a similar project for OOo before I became
overwhelmed by other commitments and had to drop the topic.  One minor issue
I met with was finding templates that satisfied the design community while
satisfying user expectations.  What I mean is, users (according to the
design community) often make horrible presentations; however, users expect
certain features to be available in their design templates.

Very slightly off-topic I think we could use a LibreOffice Impress
template that could be very helpful for the community to make LibO
presentations.  Features could include using the paper tab (the top right of
the logo) as bullets at the primary level, the LibO logo perhaps in the top
left and then of course some nice and simple design background.  (These are
just suggestions you can do whatever you like, of course).  Its not
explicitly related to your topic but it could be really helpful for branding
and the like if you have the time.

Cheers,
Jaron



2011/1/31 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com

 It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be:
 1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of
 presentation: school, enterprise, marketing...
 2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites of
 slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I gives the
 feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template.
 3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D

 Count with me,
 ~Paulo

 I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P


 On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote:

 As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of templates
 from OOo Impress is terrible.  I was wondering if I were to make a set (lets
 say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for Impress, if we could get
 them included by default?



 --
 Paulo José O. Amaro
 Computer Science Student
 Federal University of São João del-Rei
 WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
 Blogger / casatwain.com


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar

2011-02-01 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Paulo,

It looks like a good start.  I will give you more feedback later, (I am busy
at work).

Cheers,
Jaron


2011/2/1 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com

 Hello everybody!

 Some days ago, Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already knew
 issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the status bar.
 The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document when the document
 have not saved changes, and some people think may be better ways to
 represent this status.

 Looking up the past discussions about this issue to understand what was
 done, I found some interesting links [2] [3].

 So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this
 behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version,
 since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status bar
 icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to follow the
 suggestion of some people.

 Versions on 16x14px:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg
 Versions on 14x11px:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg

 I hope it can be useful in some way. :)

 Best regards,
 ~Paulo

 [1] Small Icon Artwork Project (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Kicking
  Off the LibreOffice Design Team)
 http://go.mail-archive.com/ZXUvilyqV8RdwiU-erOUILtRjfA
 [2] [Visual Design] Request for Icon Artwork (was: Re: [Libreoffice] [UX]
 LO status bar annoyances)
 http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00087.html
 [3] HackWeek – Minor polish
 http://kohei.us/2009/07/27/hackweek-minor-polish/
 [4] New feature icons: Zoom  Scaling Slider
 http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_icons_zoomslider.html#iconszoom
 --
 Paulo José O. Amaro
 Computer Science Student
 Federal University of São João del-Rei
 WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
 Blogger / casatwain.com

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!

2011-02-01 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Bernhard,

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png

 Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality?

I think the Jaron gear works better at the 16px but Paulo's gear looks
better at the 128px size.


 Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1?

 As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's.

If you honestly think Paulo's gear is better don't include my change.  I
would rather the better icon be shipped out.  My feelings won't be hurt. :-)

I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template gradient
 in this source file:

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg

 If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to hand
 over to Thorsten tomorrow.

 So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else:

In general the icons look great!  My five dislikes are: (by the way it
started at 2 and then I got really critical)
1) Calc 128px icon: The middle column at the top row is a little light.
2) Calc 128px icon: The lines on the bar graph next to the orange bar
contrast too much
3) Draw 16px icon: I liked it better in a previous iteration where the
triangle was the same equilateral triangle as in the other icons
4) Impress 128px icon: The shadow could be a little bit darker I think...
(opacity changed to ~80)
5) HTML/Web 16px icon: If you take the 32px World and shrink it to the
16px world size and then change the web to 0.5 px width you get a nicer
icon.*

So really just nit-picky complaints.  Like I said earlier, the icons look
great!  Everyone did such a good job!  And thanks Bernhard for taking care
of this at the last minute!

Cheers,
Jaron


* I could see someone arguing against having such a small feature on the
icon but I think the color matched better to the other icons and you can
tell that at least there is something on the circle (i.e. it looks more like
a globe) than simply a plain colored circle.

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Re: [libreoffice-design] CSS Styles for Website (Was: Problem with CSS)

2011-01-30 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Ivan and Paulo,

Please see [1] some new icons that use the correct shadowing.  There are
three different iterations of design (very subtle differences) which can be
mixed and matched based on what people like.  Essentially the top row is a
reworked old style (incorrect shadowing) but may be useful at some later
date for button clicks or the like.  Then the bottom 3 rows are the new
icons.  I attempted to use the Vegur font for the i, !, and ? to be
consistent with other LibO themes; however it had to be modified to be
practical for the icons.  Frankly I very much dislike the ? in the Vegur
font and if people think its okay I can redesign the icons with non-Vegur
font characters.

Let me know what you like, dislike or if you want me to rework them
entirely.  Also, is there a wiki page for this topic?  I can upload my
source file.

Cheers,
Jaron

[1] https://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5568013638479025490





On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 FYI, I am working on Ivan's request for more appropriate images.
 Actually I am done but have a busy evening so won't be able to send the
 final product until tomorrow morning (USA time).

 Cheers,
 Jaron



 2011/1/28 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com

 Hey Ivan, great job!

 I liked your CSS styles and I love how you made use of :after, :before and
 box-shadow! They look great in both Firefox and Chrome. Did you test in
 Internet Explorer [Oh, the horror]? :P Anyway, really really good job, man!
 :D

 Just a think that came to me now... Would be great if you'll make some
 examples of Jquery use, I don't know, maybe in galleries, slideshows, these
 cool things. Or even of CSS transsitions! :)

 Thank you for your effort! This is much appreciate!
 ~Paulo



 On 28-01-2011 09:32, Ivan M. wrote:

 Hi all,

 Near the very end of the confcall, we discussed the need for a wider
 range of CSS styles on the website. I have created a few to get the
 ball rolling - you can see them at [1]. The CSS pertaining to these
 styles can be found at [2]

 Please feel free to propose other styles (especially text styles that
 can be used to make text-heavy pages a little more interesting).
 I was also wondering if someone could create more fitting images
 (information, warning, error, etc) which are in line with our branding
 style (e.g. using inner shadows and LibO colors)? The ones there are
 intended to be temporary and were sourced from [3].

 Regards,
 Ivan.

 ---
 [1] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/index.html
 [2] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/new.css
 [3] http://itweek.deviantart.com/art/Knob-Buttons-Toolbar-icons-73463960



 --
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 Computer Science Student
 Federal University of São João del-Rei
 WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
 Blogger / casatwain.com


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Re: [libreoffice-design] 3 problems

2011-01-28 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi James,


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 4:54 AM, James A. Schulz jasch...@wiseware.comwrote:

 Christoph,

 No, I don't see anything in the new features that addresses the problems
 I
 listed.  Let me try again:

 1.  The ghost icons I described in my original post can be see at:
 http://www.wiseware.com/LibreOffice/GhostIcons.jpg

The picture is helpful.  My PC is dead at the moment but I tried to find the
same issues with the Mac version of LibO.  Unfortunately, I can't duplicate
that problem.  Additionally, I can't even find those icons in the standard
toolbar icon set.  Three questions:
1) Do you have any Macros installed?
2) Do you have custom toolbars?
3) What commands are the buttons associated with? (Go to
toolbars-customize...)



 2.  Create a new text document, type something, save it.  No press the
 ALT-F(ile) key combination.  Notice that the Save item on the File Menu
 is
 disabled.  This means that if you are a user habituated to ALT-F-S, you end
 up stuck in the File Menu and you have to press ESC to return to your
 document.  (Yes, I know that users habituated to CTRL-S don't have this
 problem, but that's not the point.)  Why penalize users by requiring this
 extra key-stroke just because they tried to save the current document when
 it didn't need saving.  Don't we want to encourage even such
 over-conscientious users to save whenever they happen to think of it.  Real
 writing is an on-again-off-again sort of thing.  One spends a good deal of
 time just staring at whatever paragraph happens to be on the screen at the
 moment.  So the phone right, and you come out of that chance and before you
 answer the call, you press ALF-F-S just in case you hadn't thought to save
 before you went into your trance.  And when you do that (i.e. press
 ALT-F-S)
 you end up stuck in the menu (and you are annoyed).  MS Word does not do
 this.  WordPerfect never did it.  Why must writer do it.  The right thing
 is
 never to disable the Save item.  The system can avoid wasting its time by
 simply ignoring the unnecessary save command without punishing the user
 for issuing it.

I believe the reason LibO disables save is to provide a means of feedback to
the user that indeed their document is saved.  I agree that it is unfair
that the users that use ALT-F-S get stuck when they go to save since the
command is disabled when a document is saved.



 3.  Open a new writer document.  Notice that the window has the usual X
 window close button, but below that, in an otherwise empty bar that runs
 across the screen, there is another, smaller x' that closes only the
 document.  Now open a second document.  In this new window, there is only
 the X window close button (i.e. the document close button is not where to
 be seen).  True, using the window close button in this second window
 returns
 you to the first document, but why show this inconsistent interface, i.e.
 why not make all document windows identical?.  Of course, if LO would
 switch
 to (in my opinion) the vastly preferable Multiple Document Interface, that
 redesign would likely solve this problem.

Once again with my PC on the fritz I cannot duplicate this issue.  I believe
I understand what you are talking about though.  I agree that there should
be consistency:
1) No documents have close buttons
2) All documents have close buttons

Hopefully someone with a PC can duplicate the toolbar problem but please in
the interim let me know what those buttons are.

Cheers,
Jaron






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Re: [libreoffice-design] CSS Styles for Website (Was: Problem with CSS)

2011-01-28 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi all,

FYI, I am working on Ivan's request for more appropriate images.  Actually
I am done but have a busy evening so won't be able to send the final product
until tomorrow morning (USA time).

Cheers,
Jaron



2011/1/28 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com

 Hey Ivan, great job!

 I liked your CSS styles and I love how you made use of :after, :before and
 box-shadow! They look great in both Firefox and Chrome. Did you test in
 Internet Explorer [Oh, the horror]? :P Anyway, really really good job, man!
 :D

 Just a think that came to me now... Would be great if you'll make some
 examples of Jquery use, I don't know, maybe in galleries, slideshows, these
 cool things. Or even of CSS transsitions! :)

 Thank you for your effort! This is much appreciate!
 ~Paulo



 On 28-01-2011 09:32, Ivan M. wrote:

 Hi all,

 Near the very end of the confcall, we discussed the need for a wider
 range of CSS styles on the website. I have created a few to get the
 ball rolling - you can see them at [1]. The CSS pertaining to these
 styles can be found at [2]

 Please feel free to propose other styles (especially text styles that
 can be used to make text-heavy pages a little more interesting).
 I was also wondering if someone could create more fitting images
 (information, warning, error, etc) which are in line with our branding
 style (e.g. using inner shadows and LibO colors)? The ones there are
 intended to be temporary and were sourced from [3].

 Regards,
 Ivan.

 ---
 [1] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/index.html
 [2] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/new.css
 [3] http://itweek.deviantart.com/art/Knob-Buttons-Toolbar-icons-73463960



 --
 Paulo José O. Amaro
 Computer Science Student
 Federal University of São João del-Rei
 WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
 Blogger / casatwain.com


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Vegur font

2011-01-23 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Hillar, all,

I worked on a font once a long time ago so I could perhaps assist in the
process but would be reluctant to take a leading role in the continued
development of the font.  Is there a list of desired characters for the
font?  If not I could start a page on developing the Vegur to create the
remaining characters.  Chances are most missing characters will be easy to
create (ex: 'ñ' = '~' + 'n') plus the outline for the font is pretty
straight forward.

Cheers,
Jaron







On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 Hi Hillar, all,

 Hillar Liiv schrieb:

  Hello!

 If You want Vegur be default font then we need to make missing characters.
 I
 made some of them (included light version only),


 That's just great! Thanks for starting this task.


  these needs to be reviewed.


 I've never worked on fonts - but perhaps anybody else?


  Some important characters are not done yet.

 Is somebody else working with Vegur?


 I'm not aware of anybody.


  Who is author of original Vegur font?

 It's Arro @ dotcolon.net

 I contacted him last year when we sought an official OOo font.

 He replied:

 At present, update is not scheduled. Please make to the outline and use
 it. There is no problem even if it freely customizes it.

 Best regards

 Bernhard

 PS: You used version 0.602 from the dotcolon website as basis?


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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: More time for improvements...

2011-01-23 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Bernhard, all,

:-(  Oh well...  I appreciate how much people tried to push it through.
Thanks to those people for their work.  Perhaps the code people might even
take this opportunity to change the code a little to consolidate references
to icons in the code.  As I haven't looked at any code I have no idea how
bad it is so I hope its not too much work for them as I realize they are
quite busy.

We should treat this as a good opportunity to finalize the icons and make
them look really polished.

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 I want to thank all of you who spent their time in these designs and
 comments - it is a great experience to have the chance of working really
 collaboratively in a team!

Yes!  It has been very fun to have such a collaborative project!  I am glad
so many people have been participating.

Cheers,
Jaron

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Re: [libreoffice-design] UX/Visual Design Description (Draft) (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Work on the libreoffice.org content - sitrep 2011/01/22)

2011-01-23 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Christoph, David,

As a native speaker I read through Christoph's write-up as per his request.
Please consider the few grammatical changes bolded below.

Cheers,
Jaron


On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 ### Start ###

 LibreOffice aims to be a great tool for people to let them create, edit
 and share any kind of information - enabling them to turn their ideas
 into documents. But offering that much capability doesn't require the
 software be complicated for all the different users ... The LibreOffice
 Design Team wants to Make it just work, and look great, too! by
 offering User Experience Design and Visual Identity Design.

 We need people to get involved in one or some of the following areas:
  * User Experience: User Experience considers the user's
point-of-view even before and also during the use of
LibreOffice. It aims for productivity, usability and enjoyment
and targets both the website and the software. Interest in or
available knowledge concerning research, design and evaluation
methods make you wanted.
  * Visual Identity Design: Visual identity design is about creating
stunning artwork to be used within LibreOffice, for the website
and also in marketing material. *It also involves further improving
the quality and consistency of the visual branding language* -
which represents our whole community.
  * Accessibility: *Accessibility is about making the software
usable for everyone* - people with and without disabilities. It
considers applicable laws and required technologies to achieve
this challenging goal.
  * User Support and Training: This is about sharing your experience
when providing support and training for end-users. *It will help
us to identify important areas for improvement, and identify
essential requirements.*

 Consequently, if you want to work on improvements that target both the
 community *and our* large end-user base, then the Design Team is the
 right place for you.

 If you want to know more, please visit the Design Team wiki page.

 ### End ###


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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeTyme icons - Macro

2011-01-20 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Bernhard,

I love the Macro icon concept.  My only issue is the gear itself.  Despite
the fact that it looks rather like an involute
gearhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involute_gearwhich as an engineer I
really appreciate, I think it would be more
recognizable as a square toothed gear, something like the gear in this logo
(top left corner): ESW http://www.esustainableworld.org/
Also I feel like the gear could be a little larger at the 16px icon size.

I will try my hand at it modifying it later today as I partially designed a
modification to that logo and have the .svg file for it (somewhere...).

Cheers,
Jaron




On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 Hi all,

 Bernhard Dippold schrieb:

 [...]


 Here is the result:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icon_proposal.png

  I added the HC icons.

 I uploaded the source containing both (Macro and Writer/Web) icons to
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/3/3e/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons_Bernhard_draft_0-1.svg


 Best regards

 Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeTyme icons - Macro

2011-01-20 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi everyone,

I updated the gear:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:2011-01-20_Macro_Proposal.png

Sorry, I ran out of time to present it in the official icon proposal
template but it should hopefully suffice for seeing the change.  I think its
slightly better but the axle hole in the gear should probably be bigger for
the 16px icon size.

Cheers,
Jaron



On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 Hi Jaron, *

 Jaron Kuppers schrieb:

 Hi Bernhard,

 I love the Macro icon concept.  My only issue is the gear itself.  Despite
 the fact that it looks rather like an involute
 gearhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involute_gearwhich as an engineer I

 really appreciate, I think it would be more
 recognizable as a square toothed gear, something like the gear in this
 logo
 (top left corner): ESWhttp://www.esustainableworld.org/

 Also I feel like the gear could be a little larger at the 16px icon size.

 I will try my hand at it modifying it later today as I partially designed
 a
 modification to that logo and have the .svg file for it (somewhere...).


 Here:


 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons_Bernhard_draft_0-1.svg

 It should be linked from the Initial Icon page:

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons

 I'm looking forwards to your draft :-)


 Best regards

 Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Naming and format of MimeType icons - request to developers

2011-01-14 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Thanks Bernhard!

Cheers,
Jaron

P.S. I think it is extremely important for LibO and the Document Foundation
to create an identity separate of that from OOo.  Therefore I really hope we
can get the icon set complete!



On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 PERFECT! Thanks a lot ...

 Cheers,
 Christoph

 Am Donnerstag, den 13.01.2011, 18:47 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
  Hi all,
 
  just to inform you:
  I posted a message to the developer list to find out how the icons
  should be formatted and called for easy inclusion in the packages:
 
 
 http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-January/005839.html
 
  Best regards
 
  Bernhard
 



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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons - Draw

2011-01-13 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Bernhard and Mirek,

Thanks for the comments.

On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 high contrast; if people like the proposal I will try and do them tomorrow.


 I think we need to get the symbols right at first, then we should implement
 them in the different icons.

Agreed.  I thought I might try my hand at simplified high contrast icon but
will wait until later.


 (Especially as we switched the template and document icons - what has not
 been implemented in the source files uploaded.


 http://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5561372495654980738

  Thanks for stepping in - even today I spent some more time on this icon,
 but I didn't find a better approach...

 There are three minor points I want to mention concerning your draft:

 1. As the heavier items are in the upper area of the symbol it doesn't look
 very balanced. Even if I don't like to copy the ODF icons, perhaps we should
 move the rectangle up and the triangle / circle down.

Hmmm, yes I see that now.  I was attempting to keep your circle/triangle
symbol for the small icon since it looks quite good.  Maybe Christoph will
play with the balance otherwise I may move stuff around.



 2. I have a minor problem with the rectangle with handles lent from the ODF
 icons:

 Draw doesn't use round handles - and a rectangle has eight square handles.

 Polygons can be drawn with one handle on each corner, so you can create a
 rectangle with four of them - or a trapezoid, if it fits better with the
 overall design.

Yes... I realize this is an issue.  I feel like this came up before with the
universal odf icon format.  I think even though its not representative it
may be universally understood.  We could alternatively switch them to
rectangular handles but I think having 8 would be excessive.  That being
said, I am not terribly attached to it so I won't really expend energy
defending its use.  I will think of some other subject for the icon.



 3. I don't know if the white fill inside the triangle doesn't look too
 harsh - did you try the light yellow? (But this might be less visual, when
 the icons are switched to the lighter background).

Agreed.  That was a mistake on my part, more of an artifact left over from
some experimentation.  It looks better as a see-through object or as a light
yellow.

Cheers,
Jaron

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[libreoffice-design] Re: MimeType icons - Impress

2011-01-12 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi again!

Here is my Impress logo proposal.  I didn't have time to do the template or
high contrast; if people like the proposal I will try and do them tomorrow.

http://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#556137249351106

Cheers,
Jaron



On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 FYI I am trying my hand at the Impress logo.

 Cheers,
 Jaron



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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons - Draw

2011-01-12 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi again!

I tried my hand at the Draw icon.  I didn't have time to do the template or
high contrast; if people like the proposal I will try and do them tomorrow.

http://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5561372495654980738

Cheers,
Jaron

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 Hi Jaron, all,

 Jaron Kuppers schrieb:

  Hi Bernhard,

 My comments are pretty much the same as Christoph's.  The 3D look seems
 out
 of place, and a box with handles would look great (as shown in his link).
  I
 will play with your svg file if you put it up; playing around with it
 might
 spark some ideas for what else could be added.  Draw is a surprisingly
 tough
 icon...

 I would greatly appreciate if everyone could put their svg files on the
 wiki
 page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons


 I did :-)

 Best regards

 Bernhard

 PS: If you start working on the source file:

 My work is licensed under the triple license in the wiki (CC-by-sa, LGPL +
 MPL). If Christoph agrees to this tripe license, our work can easily be
 included in the product, when you keep these licenses.

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons

2011-01-12 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Christoph and others,

I didn't follow my own advise! :-o  (tsk tsk Jaron)  I put up the source
file now:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons_Jaron_draft_0-1.svg

Cheers,
Jaron


On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 Hi all!

 First - I'm very sorry that I'm unable to add any comments or feedback
 today. But I tried to put all the effort in ...

 Am Mittwoch, den 12.01.2011, 23:51 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
  (Especially as we switched the template and document icons - what has
  not been implemented in the source files uploaded.

 ... getting the basic file right. You can grab it here:

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/c/c3/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-Christoph.svg

 The properties page is here:

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-Christoph.svg

 And the wiki page is - you know - here:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons


 @ Bernhard: Of course, I'll use the other license(s) - no bad
 intentions :-) I've got aware of the wiki change when I've uploaded the
 neutral TDF installer branding.

 The changes:
  * Removed the shadows of all application/document icons and
resized all corresponding icons to use the available space
(Feedback by Mirek who provided the platform specific shadow
requirements; we may apply a drop shadow or something like that
later ... at the moment it corresponds to the old Galaxy
icons; but re-adding shadow requires proper resizing once more)
  * Exchanged the coloring between documents and templates -
documents are now white/grayish, templates are more colored
(Feedback by Nik, adapted feedback by Björn)
  * Re-added some color for very small icons (e.g. providing light
green background for the Calc grid in 16px) (Adapted Feedback by
Ivan to ensure proper color coding for small sized icons)
  * Base: Changed from 3-stack to 4-stack for the 128px Base icon
(but kept the background, since it is really required to
harmonize the icons, although I agree to the misleading meaning)
(Feedback by Ivan)
  * Base: Added missing HC versions

 The downsides:
  * My grid inside the icons is broken (resizing issue), so that
the binders now have a bit space at the top (I decided to put
the remaining pixel to the top, because at the bottom it still
is nicely aligned)
  * The icons - especially the application/document icons - look now
rather simple. Some people may like it, some won't ...

 Note: I've kept the placeholders for the symbolism in each of the icons,
 so you'll know the required size of the symbols (since this has been
 discussed for the Draw icon).

 Note: To see the icons in their natural beauty (just kidding), please
 use 100% zoom, disable grid (#), disable all placeholder layers. This
 time, there is no nice preview - sorry!

 @ Bernhard: Tomorrow, I might help Jaron to polish the Impress icons (if
 he likes, but this requires the source ... and thanks to him to start
 working on that). And, I could pick Math if there is time left ...

 @ Bernhard 2: Thanks for your additions to the Wiki page :-)

 We run out of time a bit (but still, my feeling is much better than some
 days ago...), but we really need some knowledge how to export the icons
 (naming, maybe the source directory location). Could anybody take care
 of that and ask on the developers list? Otherwise I fear, that tasks
 like that keep us busy at the end :-\

 Anybody else (maybe new guys) to pick some symbolism (Printer
 Administration and Macros are a challenge ... you finde more information
 in the wiki [1])?

 Thanks for all your work and feedback!

 Cheers,
 Christoph

 [1]

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons#Document_Symbolism


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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons

2011-01-11 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi,

I think Bernhard's proposal is great.  My time will free up after Wednesday
so hopefully I can dedicate some serious time to looking over the icon set
at that time.  The icons currently look professional so I don't think that
anyone would look poorly upon them.  If we were to submit an icon set now,
would we consider making a new set for the next release?  Personally, I
think we can have draft icons now and then create a final set later (with
the intention of not changing them again for a long time).

Cheers,
Jaron

P.S. On Mac's at least you almost never actually see the icons (you see a
small document preview instead) so if they aren't up to our very strict
standards no one will notice. ;-)




On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 Hi Bernhard, all!

 Am Montag, den 10.01.2011, 00:03 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
  At the moment I see one real problem:
 
  We run out of time!

 Aehm, yes, and I already missed to answer many of the mails today (like
 yours, or those by Björn). Sorry for that :-\

  Therefore I would propose an approach like this:
 
  1. step: Create icons for all the document types based on the present
  design. As the icon background is the same (with different colors),
  the main work is creating the symbols for the different sizes.

 Okay, I'd like to add - that mainly includes (from my point of view) to
 come up with sensible application symbolism. We need help here, for
 sure.

  2. step: If we still have some time left, we can switch the template
  icons to document icons and create different ones (inverted? other
  ideas?) for templates.

 Yep, that should be possible. I already tried to improve the clarity of
 some of the template icons to make them more distinct.

 One thing that might be worth to add - I think the importance of the
 icons is different. The template icons show up rarely (as far as I
 know), therefore our main goal should be to ensure that they look
 different. If somebody opens Document from Template (for example),
 then the dialog itself helps to explain the meaning of the icons.

 So here, I'd like to say that Prio A is for document / application icons
 for Writer to Base.

  What do you all think - should we try to finalize this iconset in the
  two steps I describe above?

 +1

 So, anybody who can spend some time to help with the icons?
 Unfortunately, I ran out of vacation, so that my contributions will
 decrease of the next days ...

 And, maybe some other motivation - there will be articles featuring
 LibreOffice when it is release. Since there is currently less difference
 to OOo (when looking at the GUI), our icons can provide a great way to
 ensure good visibility to the world. Does that sound good? ;-)

 Bernhard, thanks for going forward and providing this proposal. What do
 the others think/say?

 Cheers,
 Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons - Draw

2011-01-11 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Bernhard,

My comments are pretty much the same as Christoph's.  The 3D look seems out
of place, and a box with handles would look great (as shown in his link).  I
will play with your svg file if you put it up; playing around with it might
spark some ideas for what else could be added.  Draw is a surprisingly tough
icon...

I would greatly appreciate if everyone could put their svg files on the wiki
page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons


I will playing around with stuff in the next couple days.  Thanks!

Cheers,
Jaron





On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote:

 Hi Bernhard!

 Am Sonntag, den 09.01.2011, 21:21 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
  Hi all,
 
  Bernhard Dippold schrieb:
   [...]
  
   (who starts working on the Draw document icon)

 Thanks!!! :-)

  Here is my first draft:
 
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/4/40/Draw_icons_proposal.png
 
  I used the primitives Christoph suggested for the small versions and
  added 3D-effects to the larger icons.

 Thanks for that, and great that you already worked on all of the
 sizes ...

  * 16 px: Good idea to separate the circle and the triangle in this
way!
  * 32px: From my point of view, the circle and the triangle are a
bit close. That has also some impact on the balanced weight of
the graphic.
  * 48px+128px:
  * Mmh, as far as I know, there are no 3D objects like that
(usually they are based on extrusion or rotation) ...
  * To me, the line is still a bit inaccessible to connect
this with the application Draw (although it might help
users of OOo). How about using a plain rectangle, or
using some kind of calligraphy style line (e.g. small
ends, thinker middle section)?

 Sorry, no more ideas :-\

 By the way, I had a look how the ODF icons visualize that these items
 are editable. Stella came up with a great idea to show the handles:
 http://odftoolkit.org/pages/ODF-Icons#ODF_Icons


  The curved line people didn't understand as main reference for Draw
  (being a vector based graphical tool) is part of the larger icons and
  left out in the smaller ones.
 
  I didn't add any secondary color, because the use cases in Christoph's
  icons are more or less external resources in the other applications
  (image in Writer, chart in Calc) - I don't know anything similar in Draw.

 At the moment, this seems to be the same for Base (I hope to show
 something this evening...).

 But, slight color might also highlight one of the values of Draw - being
 a creativity tool (or wanting to become one *g*).

  All comments appreciated. If you want to play with the SVG source,
  please tell me...

 tell

 Could you please add this to the wiki, maybe others might work with it,
 too. Would be cool!

 Oh, before I forget: I've felt free to move the MIME type page to a new
 location to make it look more official - at the moment, we all are
 working on the icons. It just feels more appropriate ...
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons

 Cheers,
 Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons - template

2011-01-03 Thread Jaron Kuppers
Hi Bernhard,

I think the large 3D binder spirals are too prominent.  They distract me
from the document and seem to over-shadow the components of the LibreOffice
logo.

The holes are not prominent enough...

I am not able to try my hand at anything at the moment but I would recommend
you try horizontal binders, similar to the small icon.  Perhaps a gradient
can give the binders a 3D ring effect.  Horizontal binders might give us
some freedom to find that happy medium between too big and too small.  The 
Goldilocks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_the_Three_Bears
size. :-)

Happy new year everyone!

Cheers,
Jaron



On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Bernhard Dippold 
bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

 Hi all, Christoph,

 replying to this mail, because we discussed here the template symbols...

 Christoph Noack schrieb:

 [...]

 * Template icons now feature some college block binding


 I like these binders, they have to be created in detail for the larger
 icons.

 For the small 16px icons I prefer Jaron's smaller binding because they
 seem to be a bit better to discriminate.


 I will have a look at it, again.


 I tried to create some binders for the large detailed icons:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Writer_template_spiral_binding.png

 I'm not really satisfied with them:

 The upper version (a) with binding spiral adds some 3D-effect that is not
 present in the document icons. The binding spiral is very prominent.

 The lower version (b) shows only the holes, but they are very similar to
 the surrounding grey sheet.

 Perhaps there might be a solution in-between, but I'd like to ask you
 before I go on:

 What do you think should be the way to go?

 Best regards

 Bernhard

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