Emmanuele Bassi ebassi at gmail.com writes:
*wrong*.
Moblin on netbooks required hardware acceleration.
Moblin 2.1 worked when I ran it inside a VM with a non-accelerated
video driver, albeit somewhat sluggishly as one would expect. I
wouldn't rule out the possibility that I've misunderstood
Thanks for your answers.
Emmanuele Bassi ebassi at gmail.com writes:
sorry, reply split in two - my allergies are making me less coherent
today.
No problem, I will just split my answer!
On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 21:51 +, Michael wrote:
with my Clutter maintainer hat firmly on: we are not
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 08:44 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
Maybe I missed it but why are we only concentrating on Nvidia? Are
ATI graphics cards okay vis-a-vis xrand support and others on free
drivers? What about Intel? The foundation should probably take a
holistic approach to this issue
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 3:21 AM, Michael rasel...@hotmail.com wrote:
* Moblin, which was also based on Clutter, worked without hardware
acceleration (admittedly not particularly fast, but usable).
* The visual effects in GNOME Shell don't look much beyond what Doom
2 was doing on my
Hi!
* The visual effects in GNOME Shell don't look much beyond what Doom
2 was doing on my completely unaccelerated 486 fifteen years ago,
albeit with a lower resolution. Furthermore, most of the time it is running
with windows mapped one-to-one. Surely an optimised path would be
possible
On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 21:51 +, Michael wrote:
Owen Taylor otaylor at redhat.com writes:
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 11:19 +0300, Naba Kumar wrote:
Does gnome-shell work without graphics capabilities? A few days back I
tried it from ubuntu karmic repository (so the release might be a bit
sorry, reply split in two - my allergies are making me less coherent
today.
On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 21:51 +, Michael wrote:
* The visual effects in GNOME Shell don't look much beyond what Doom
2 was doing on my completely unaccelerated 486 fifteen years ago,
albeit with a lower resolution.
if you want the Mesa software rasterizer to be faster you can start
contributing to Mesa. I'm sure the maintainers will gladly accept
patches.
By the time you've hit the GL layer you've probably thrown away crucial
information needed for many shortcuts.
Doom is also much less generic (as to a
Slightly late in the day with this follow-up, but here goes:
Owen Taylor otaylor at redhat.com writes:
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 11:19 +0300, Naba Kumar wrote:
Does gnome-shell work without graphics capabilities? A few days back I
tried it from ubuntu karmic repository (so the release might be a
On 02/04/2010 22:04, Naba Kumar wrote:
VMWare support is still not available according to this post in their forum:
http://communities.vmware.com/message/1390758. Their release note
mentions 3d support for win guests only. A quick try in virtualbox
didn't work for me either (I don't know if it
Il giorno mar, 30/03/2010 alle 19.16 -0400, Owen Taylor ha scritto:
Dependencies:
Mutter: Will be proposed as a desktop release set module
GJS: Will be proposed as a desktop release set module
gobject-introspection: Will be proposed as a desktop release set module
Maybe I've misses it,
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 10:54 +0200, Luca Ferretti wrote:
Il giorno mar, 30/03/2010 alle 19.16 -0400, Owen Taylor ha scritto:
Dependencies:
Mutter: Will be proposed as a desktop release set module
GJS: Will be proposed as a desktop release set module
gobject-introspection: Will be
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 02:52 +0100, Alberto Ruiz wrote:
2010/4/6 Andrew Cowie and...@operationaldynamics.com:
Anyway, I think you're on the right track to presume 3D capability, but
I don't think we should be so dismissive of concerns from people on less
capable hardware or those who are
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 5:29 AM, Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org wrote:
I think Alberto's idea of reaching out to nVidia is a great idea - if we
can clearly communicate our needs to them it can't hurt to ask. I'd be
willing to help reach out to them if needed.
Maybe I missed it but why are we
Hi!
Maybe I missed it but why are we only concentrating on Nvidia? Are
ATI graphics cards okay vis-a-vis xrand support and others on free
drivers? What about Intel? The foundation should probably take a
holistic approach to this issue if we want a uniform experience for
GNOME 3.
Well,
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 11:40 +1000, Andrew Cowie wrote:
On Sun, 2010-04-04 at 09:24 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
Let me phrase it a little differently then - it's not a problem that
GNOME is able to fix. If there is demand, I assume NVIDIA will work on
xrandr support.
Yeah, but given how
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 08:44 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 5:29 AM, Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org wrote:
I think Alberto's idea of reaching out to nVidia is a great
idea - if we can clearly communicate our needs to them it
can't hurt to ask.
On Sun, 2010-04-04 at 11:57 +0800, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
There is very little that GNOME Shell does that makes it *inherently*
more demanding than Compiz.
Actually, there is.
Mutter runs on Clutter, which requires full scene-graph calculations
and currently cannot handle damage events
On Sun, 2010-04-04 at 13:33 +, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
The other problem with GNOME-Shell is that the vast majority of it
runs under a dynarec with javascript, which, although fast, can never
be faster than optimized C/C++ code.
The large majority of code that runs *for each frame* is
On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 18:26 +0100, Sandy Armstrong wrote:
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
tarballs:http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-shell/
I notice you guys did only two tarball releases last cycle (and no
2.30 release), though
On Sun, 2010-04-04 at 09:24 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
Let me phrase it a little differently then - it's not a problem that
GNOME is able to fix. If there is demand, I assume NVIDIA will work on
xrandr support.
Yeah, but given how long NVIDIA has been a part of our community (hey,
at least
2010/4/6 Andrew Cowie and...@operationaldynamics.com:
Anyway, I think you're on the right track to presume 3D capability, but
I don't think we should be so dismissive of concerns from people on less
capable hardware or those who are remoting or virtualized. Especially in
the later case, that's
Le samedi 03 avril 2010 à 23:41 -0400, Owen Taylor a écrit :
* Radeon KMS drivers are very slow (too slow to run gnome-shell,
at least) and still stabilizing.
Almost since the beginning 18 months ago, my personal gnome-shell
development has been done on an ancient Radeon
On Sun, 2010-04-04 at 11:57 +0800, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 18:41 +0200, Christophe Fergeau wrote:
2010/4/2 Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com:
* Virtually all machines produced currently, or in the last
On Sun, 2010-04-04 at 08:24 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le samedi 03 avril 2010 à 23:41 -0400, Owen Taylor a écrit :
* Radeon KMS drivers are very slow (too slow to run gnome-shell,
at least) and still stabilizing.
Almost since the beginning 18 months ago, my
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
On Sun, 2010-04-04 at 11:57 +0800, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 18:41 +0200, Christophe Fergeau wrote:
2010/4/2 Owen Taylor
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 23:57 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
maintained for people without the correct hardware support. As of now,
all intel, amd/ati and nvidia cards sold in the last five years should
I don't believe that is correct for any of the listed vendors even on
Linux. On BSD the
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 17:43 +0200, Piñeiro wrote:
About Clutter and his relation with Cally (for any reason Emmanuele
Bassi answer is not available in the archive):
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-devel/2010-March/msg3.html
it's probably still in the list admin queue,
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 08:13:14 +0100
Ross Burton r...@burtonini.com wrote:
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 23:57 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
maintained for people without the correct hardware support. As of now,
all intel, amd/ati and nvidia cards sold in the last five years should
I don't believe
Ross Burton wrote:
I don't believe that is correct for any of the listed vendors even on
Linux. On BSD the situation is even more patchy.
Is Gnome dropping support for these operating systems ?
The gnome-panel will still be available in GNOME 3.0 and will still be
maintained for
On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 13:57 +0200, Frederic Peters wrote:
Is Gnome dropping support for these operating systems ?
I am sorry my only answer at the moment is I wish not, but I am not
familiar enough with the state of graphic drivers, not even on Linux,
to know how wishful thinking it is.
Le vendredi 02 avril 2010 à 08:34 -0400, Owen Taylor a écrit :
We've always planned to require graphics acceleration. To review:
* We can't take advantage of the capabilities of graphics
acceleration in the user interface design unless we can count
on it - otherwise the graphics
On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 12:22 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
The gnome-panel will still be available in GNOME 3.0 and will still be
maintained for people without the correct hardware support
I see you've been taking lessons from politicians (clearly poli/polly -
from 'to parrot' ;) ), pity. Here
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 14:20 +0200, Johannes Schmid wrote:
Hi Naba!
Does gnome-shell work without graphics capabilities?
No, you need a hardware accelerated graphic card.
So, basically my question is do you have official plan to support
non-accelerated machines, or is it just a bug?
Le sam. 03 avril 2010 à 14:52:50 (+0200), Josselin Mouette a écrit:
As things are going, you are leaving us no choice but to keep shipping
gnome-panel by default for a very long time, unless we want to provide
two radically different user experiences.
I agree with this. I would guess that we
Hi,
2010/4/3 Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com:
Even on Linux
Intel - no psb/mrst support (eg Dell mini 10)
there is support; it's just not open source.
Hmm, do you have pointers to 3D drivers that would work out of the box
with the latest xserver? As far as I know, there is no such thing.
2010/4/2 Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com:
* Virtually all machines produced currently, or in the last 5 years
have sufficiently powerful graphics to meet our needs. In some
cases, free software drivers that can access this hardware
don't exist are or still in an early stage. But we can't
Hi William!
I think it is better to say: GNOME 2 will still be available after
GNOME 3 is released. Perhaps in long term stable maintenance mode.
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/FAQ#What_led_to_the_decision_to_make_3D_acceleration_a_requirement_for_GNOME_Shell.3F
I think this reduces
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 11:05 AM, j...@jsschmid.de wrote:
I think it is better to say: GNOME 2 will still be available after
GNOME 3 is released. Perhaps in long term stable maintenance mode.
On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 02:52:50PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
You are also forgetting the trend towards thin clients. The protocols to
display 3D remotely do not even exist. Everything has yet to be invented
if you want to see 3D on what will be the standard desktop for an
increasing
On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 14:52 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le vendredi 02 avril 2010 à 08:34 -0400, Owen Taylor a écrit :
We've always planned to require graphics acceleration. To review:
* We can't take advantage of the capabilities of graphics
acceleration in the user interface
Alan Cox wrote:
I don't believe that is correct for any of the listed vendors even on
Linux. On BSD the situation is even more patchy.
Is Gnome dropping support for these operating systems ?
The vast majority of GNOME desktop users are on Linux. The vast majority
of our developers are on
On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 09:56 -0400, Jamie McCracken wrote:
This leads to some important questions:
1) Will Gnome have the ability, by default, to auto-detect which
panel/shell to use based on the available hardware?
This is a little hard to do at the GNOME level, because it depends on
what
On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 18:41 +0200, Christophe Fergeau wrote:
2010/4/2 Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com:
* Virtually all machines produced currently, or in the last 5 years
have sufficiently powerful graphics to meet our needs. In some
cases, free software drivers that can access this
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 18:41 +0200, Christophe Fergeau wrote:
2010/4/2 Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com:
* Virtually all machines produced currently, or in the last 5 years
have sufficiently powerful graphics to meet our
On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 17:05 +, j...@jsschmid.de wrote:
Hi William!
I think it is better to say: GNOME 2 will still be available after
GNOME 3 is released. Perhaps in long term stable maintenance mode.
Hi Owen,
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 2:16 AM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
Purpose:
GNOME Shell takes advantage of the capabilities of modern graphics hardware
...
Does gnome-shell work without graphics capabilities? A few days back I
tried it from ubuntu karmic repository (so the
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 11:19 +0300, Naba Kumar wrote:
Hi Owen,
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 2:16 AM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
Purpose:
GNOME Shell takes advantage of the capabilities of modern graphics
hardware ...
Does gnome-shell work without graphics capabilities? A few
From: Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com
At a technical level, once he finishes up his current immediate work on
the message tray Dan Winship is going to dedicate a chunk of time
(probably around a month or so) to pushing things forward. What exactly
he works is going to depend on further
Hi Owen,
Thanks for explanation. I am sure even if there are cases where 3d
acceleration is not available, one could still use metacity as
alternative.
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
* There is zero reason that virtual machines can't also have 3D
Hi Naba!
Does gnome-shell work without graphics capabilities?
No, you need a hardware accelerated graphic card.
So, basically my question is do you have official plan to support
non-accelerated machines, or is it just a bug? I guess there are still
legitimate use of non-accelerated
maintained for people without the correct hardware support. As of now,
all intel, amd/ati and nvidia cards sold in the last five years should
I don't believe that is correct for any of the listed vendors even on
Linux. On BSD the situation is even more patchy.
Is Gnome dropping support for
On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 09:28 -0400, Willie Walker wrote:
2) In the Appearance section on the WIKI, there is mention of
theming. Will this hook into the desktop appearance settings we have
available in GNOME today?
Remember that most of the Appearance section in the control-center
will be
On Thu, 2010-04-01 at 09:48 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 09:28 -0400, Willie Walker wrote:
2) In the Appearance section on the WIKI, there is mention of
theming. Will this hook into the desktop appearance settings we have
available in GNOME today?
Remember that
On Thu, 2010-04-01 at 08:09 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
On Thu, 2010-04-01 at 09:48 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 09:28 -0400, Willie Walker wrote:
2) In the Appearance section on the WIKI, there is mention of
theming. Will this hook into the desktop appearance
El jue, 01-04-2010 a las 13:31 +0100, Bastien Nocera escribió:
The idea would be to have the appearance cut down to only
personalisation (background and screensaver), and leave the icon and
control themes handling to the gnome plumbing app.
Isn't that a bit too much? I'd fear that GNOME
Hi,
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Diego Escalante Urrelo die...@gnome.org wrote:
El jue, 01-04-2010 a las 13:31 +0100, Bastien Nocera escribió:
The idea would be to have the appearance cut down to only
personalisation (background and screensaver), and leave the icon and
control themes
Hi Owen,
Le mardi 30 mars 2010 à 19:16 -0400, Owen Taylor a écrit :
tarballs:http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-shell/
During the usability hackfest some people complained that the lack of
development releases makes very hard for users to test the shell.
Are you planning to
Hi Owen:
Many thanks to the GNOME Shell team for writing this and the WIKI page. It is
very promising to see accessibility included in the roadmap. I have a few
questions:
1) I believe accessibility should be a requirement for GNOME Shell for GNOME 3.
Does the presence of it in the roadmap
On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 09:28 -0400, Willie Walker wrote:
Hi Owen:
Many thanks to the GNOME Shell team for writing this and the WIKI page. It
is very promising to
see accessibility included in the roadmap. I have a few questions:
1) I believe accessibility should be a requirement for
On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 10:38 +0200, Guillaume Desmottes wrote:
Hi Owen,
Le mardi 30 mars 2010 à 19:16 -0400, Owen Taylor a écrit :
tarballs:http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-shell/
During the usability hackfest some people complained that the lack of
development
[
I've intentionally kept this proposal short rather than trying to answer
every possible concern; if you have questions, feel free to ask them
now or during the module discussion period in May.
I'll be largely away from my mail for the next few days, so I'll probably
respond to
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