On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 17:24 +, Calum Benson wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 19:08 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
Then we can build on top of that to provide locations so you can
switch the usage profile, the proxy configuration, VPN settings and
other stuff basing on where you sit (and get
Ross Burton wrote:
On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 17:24 +, Calum Benson wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 19:08 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
Then we can build on top of that to provide locations so you can
switch the usage profile, the proxy configuration, VPN settings and
other stuff basing
On 7 Jan 2009, at 18:09, Ross Burton wrote:
And FWIW, it's also what NWAM does (well, will do shortly) in
OpenSolaris.
http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nwam/p1spec/Location_Spec/
Interesting. Is this going to be open source?
Sure, knock yourself out:
On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 20:31 +0200, Natan Yellin wrote:
It's probably best _not_ to handle that in a UI. What's the point in
automatic context detection if you need to set a huge list of
settings first?
One of the many use cases for Shackleton is when I'm in the office, set
my default printer
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:45 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Fri, 12.12.08 11:55, Iain * (iaingn...@gmail.com) wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Marc-André Lureau
marcandre.lur...@gmail.com wrote:
And all the sound can link to the same sound, if what you want is a
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 19:08 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
Then we can build on top of that to provide locations so you can
switch the usage profile, the proxy configuration, VPN settings and
other stuff basing on where you sit (and get bonus points for
detecting locations basing on stuff like
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
Hello,
Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
Iain * wrote:
But I see that no-one else cares
Or, you are not effectively communicating what you mean.
Actually, I understand Iain getting annoyed here. He makes a proposal
which has its
2008/12/13 Ross Burton r...@burtonini.com
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 19:08 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
Then we can build on top of that to provide locations so you can
switch the usage profile, the proxy configuration, VPN settings and
other stuff basing on where you sit (and get bonus points
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 20:15 +0200, natan yellin wrote:
This sounds a lot like Marco Polo for MacOS, which I started
cloning as
Shackleton (http://burtonini.com/bzr/shackleton/).
Thats very neat. Is there a project website or mailing list yet?
No, it only just works at
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Iain i...@gnome.org wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
People don't use sound effects on the desktop.
One of the first things many people do is turn them off.
The only device I know where people don't turn them off is the iPod.
We have a sound naming spec[1],
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 10:06 +, Ross Burton wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 02:00 +, Iain wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
[snip]
Hear hear.
I turned off sounds in GNOME when I first started using it because
hearing six clicks when I change a radio button was somewhat irritating.
I
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org wrote:
Please remember that sounds are also a means of providing feedback to
impaired users.
I knew someone would bring this up, and I actually meant to mention it
in the original mail but it was late and I was tired (etc)
* Urgency hints, if an application in the background suddenly wants the
users attention it would be alright if a little boing or pong
(onomatopoeia you've gotta love it :) to inform you that something you
haven't had in the foreground for a while wants your attention, the
blinking of course
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Karl Lattimer k...@qdh.org.uk wrote:
* New email arrived, sure it can be configured but this would be nice
on default
* Urgency hints, if an application in the background suddenly wants the
users attention it would be alright if a little boing or pong
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 10:20 +, Iain * wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org wrote:
Please remember that sounds are also a means of providing feedback to
impaired users.
I knew someone would bring this up, and I actually meant to mention it
in
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Karl Lattimer k...@qdh.org.uk wrote:
These are all under the class of something has happened which you did
not specifically ask to happen and may require your attention
And so would be perfect candidates to have the sound.
Some of these things are also
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org wrote:
Actually all the sounds have (almost) complete context including full
text alternative for assistive technologies so you could either opt
for the screen reader to read the description aloud or just ask it
what was
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Iain * iaingn...@gmail.com wrote:
This brings up another point that I forgot. The actual difficulty of
initially working out what a sound means.
Because the sounds are arbitrary there is no expectation[1] on the
part of the user that a certain action should
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 02:00 +, Iain wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
[snip]
Hear hear.
I turned off sounds in GNOME when I first started using it because
hearing six clicks when I change a radio button was somewhat irritating.
I understand the recent work has worked towards solving this but
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 10:27 +, Iain * wrote:
These are all under the class of something has happened which you did
not specifically ask to happen and may require your attention
And so would be perfect candidates to
Hi Iain,
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 4:00 AM, Iain i...@gnome.org wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
People don't use sound effects on the desktop.
That is a nice way to start. Why don't you mute sound effects then?
and why do you even asked for one sound later. Why do you even
bother write a long
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:27 PM, Iain * iaingn...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote:
So far we agree. But one sound can't rule them all. If I'm cooking in the
kitchen, I like hearing a small beep when I get mail. I also like to hear a
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 11:27 +, Iain * wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 10:27 +, Iain * wrote:
These are all under the class of something has happened which you did
not specifically ask to happen and may require
Marc-André Lureau wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 4:00 AM, Iain i...@gnome.org wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
People don't use sound effects on the desktop.
That is a nice way to start. Why don't you mute sound effects then?
and why do you even asked for one sound later. Why do you even
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote:
Oh right, that was my other point. Now that's like sayin the applications
should ship their icons, we don't need an icon theme.
Applications do ship their icons. We need an icon theme for the common
icons that are
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Iain * iaingn...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org
wrote:
Actually all the sounds have (almost) complete context including full
text alternative for assistive technologies so you could either opt
for the
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 02:00 +, Iain wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
People don't use sound effects on the desktop.
One of the first things many people do is turn them off.
The only device I know where people don't turn them off is the iPod.
I turn them off on my iPod, and I turn them
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Bastien Nocera had...@hadess.net wrote:
Arguably, these sounds are application specific.
The application should provide what sounds it needs.
Which is why after more than 10 years of GNOME, I have 2 packages
providing custom sounds, libgnome, and gossip
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Iain * iaingn...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org
wrote:
Actually all the sounds have (almost) complete context including full
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Iain * iaingn...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Bastien Nocera had...@hadess.net wrote:
Arguably, these sounds are application specific.
The application should provide what sounds it needs.
Which is why after more than 10 years of GNOME, I
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 12:51 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Iain * iaingn...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Bastien Nocera had...@hadess.net wrote:
Arguably, these sounds are application specific.
The application should provide what sounds
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Marc-André Lureau
marcandre.lur...@gmail.com wrote:
And all the sound can link to the same sound, if what you want is a
single sound (although I would never do that)
Sorry, I didn't notice this...
No, I wouldn't want to do that either
Because the sound would
Hi,
Iain * wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org wrote:
Please remember that sounds are also a means of providing feedback to
impaired users.
I actually totally disagree. Not because i dont think impaired users
are not important
but because they are
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Iain * iaingn...@gmail.com wrote:
I want sound emitting to mean something predictable.
Currently it means multiple different things.
It can mean you did something, something succeeded, something failed,
something unexpected happened, you're required to do
Iain * wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Behdad Esfahbod beh...@behdad.org wrote:
Oh right, that was my other point. Now that's like sayin the applications
should ship their icons, we don't need an icon theme.
Applications do ship their icons. We need an icon theme for the common
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 11:38 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Iain * iaingn...@gmail.com wrote:
This brings up another point that I forgot. The actual difficulty of
initially working out what a sound means.
Because the sounds are arbitrary there is no
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Karl Lattimer k...@qdh.org.uk wrote:
Apple have done a good job making sounds fit with what's happening.
You mean by providing a single System sound[1] like I'm advocating
and leaving the rest up to application authors?
iain
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
I just want to point out that there is one other class of sounds which
is useful (in particular to blind users) and is not in your list of one:
A time-consuming operation which you requested has completed.
I covered that
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 10:27 +, Iain * wrote:
These are all under the class of something has happened which you did
not specifically ask to happen and may require your attention
And so would be perfect candidates to have the sound.
So far we agree. But one sound can't rule them all. If
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 10:27 +, Iain * wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Karl Lattimer k...@qdh.org.uk wrote:
* New email arrived, sure it can be configured but this would be nice
on default
* Urgency hints, if an application in the background suddenly wants the
users
Il giorno ven, 12/12/2008 alle 02.00 +, Iain ha scritto:
Some thoughts on sounds.
The sound naming spec defines 125 sounds.
That is 125 sounds for the user to learn the meaning of.
Because the sounds defined are incredibly arbitrary the sounds run the
risk of having their meaning
Il giorno ven, 12/12/2008 alle 11.27 +, Iain * ha scritto:
Arguably, these sounds are application specific.
The application should provide what sounds it needs.
iain
So, instead of ~120 sounds, we get thousands the user has to learn the
meaning of?
You want to use the sound spec?
On Fri, 12.12.08 10:20, Iain * (iaingn...@gmail.com) wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org wrote:
Please remember that sounds are also a means of providing feedback to
impaired users.
I knew someone would bring this up, and I actually meant to
On Fri, 12.12.08 11:33, Iain * (iaingn...@gmail.com) wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Karl Lattimer k...@qdh.org.uk wrote:
Apple have done a good job making sounds fit with what's happening.
You mean by providing a single System sound[1] like I'm advocating
and leaving the rest
On Fri, 12.12.08 10:06, Ross Burton (r...@burtonini.com) wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 02:00 +, Iain wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
[snip]
Hear hear.
I turned off sounds in GNOME when I first started using it because
hearing six clicks when I change a radio button was somewhat
On Fri, 12.12.08 10:15, Karl Lattimer (k...@qdh.org.uk) wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 10:06 +, Ross Burton wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 02:00 +, Iain wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
[snip]
Hear hear.
I turned off sounds in GNOME when I first started using it because
On Fri, 12.12.08 02:00, Iain (i...@gnome.org) wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
Here's my response as one of the guys who wrote the specs and as the
one who implemented them. I'll probably repeat a lot of stuff other
people said. Sorry for that.
1. This should be discussed on the xdg mailing
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:22 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Fri, 12.12.08 10:06, Ross Burton (r...@burtonini.com) wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 02:00 +, Iain wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
[snip]
Hear hear.
I turned off sounds in GNOME when I first started using it
Le vendredi 12 décembre 2008 à 14:29 +0100, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
On Fri, 12.12.08 11:37, Iain * (iaingn...@gmail.com) wrote:
Note that last word,
it's a sound *theme*. How do you get a Startrek sound theme if it's up
to
applications to ship their sounds?!
How do you
On Fri, 12.12.08 11:55, Iain * (iaingn...@gmail.com) wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Marc-André Lureau
marcandre.lur...@gmail.com wrote:
And all the sound can link to the same sound, if what you want is a
single sound (although I would never do that)
Sorry, I didn't notice
On Fri, 12.12.08 11:40, Bastien Nocera (had...@hadess.net) wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 02:00 +, Iain wrote:
Some thoughts on sounds.
People don't use sound effects on the desktop.
One of the first things many people do is turn them off.
The only device I know where people don't
On Fri, 12.12.08 11:37, Iain * (iaingn...@gmail.com) wrote:
Note that last word,
it's a sound *theme*. How do you get a Startrek sound theme if it's up to
applications to ship their sounds?!
How do you get a tango icon theme if its up to applications to ship
their own icons?
Most
On Fri, 12.12.08 11:43, Iain * (iaingn...@gmail.com) wrote:
Category a, the sounds can be provided by the application as they are
ear candy. Not necessarily essential, but make the program nicer or
cuter to use.
Or in the case of the audio-channel test sounds are essential to the
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lennart Poettering mzta...@0pointer.de wrote:
Come one. First you claim the list of defined names is too large. Then
you claim it is incomplete. Then you want only a single sound for
all. Now you want to distuingish the events. Hey, make up your mind!
Thats
Iain * wrote:
But I see that no-one else cares
Or, you are not effectively communicating what you mean.
So I shall stop caring as well.
And this is my last mail on the subject
Mine too.
behdad
Enjoy
iain
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
On Fri, 12.12.08 09:29, Ronald S. Bultje (rsbul...@gmail.com) wrote:
[..]
You know, we define 125 sounds. It's up to you which ones you link
to the same file and which ones you don't define at all. We already
give you the power to do whatever you want.
And thats completely NOT what I
On Fri, 12.12.08 13:30, Bastien Nocera (had...@hadess.net) wrote:
I turned off sounds in GNOME when I first started using it because
hearing six clicks when I change a radio button was somewhat irritating.
I understand the recent work has worked towards solving this but 125
event
On Fri, 12.12.08 14:06, Iain * (iaingn...@gmail.com) wrote:
Come one. First you claim the list of defined names is too large. Then
you claim it is incomplete. Then you want only a single sound for
all. Now you want to distuingish the events. Hey, make up your mind!
Thats not what i've
I like your idea for what sounds should be played, but I don't
understand how it isn't solved by creating a butler sound and putting
it in place of all of the sounds you think it would make sense for.
I suppose this does make it harder to change the sound, but you can
just make a configuration
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:42 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
Just think of these sounds:
You've got mail!
Your CD finished burning!
Warning! Your battery is running low!
You just clicked a button [1]
I think it would be immensly useful to have speech sounds for
2008/12/12 Philip Withnall philip.withn...@gmail.com:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:42 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
I think it would be immensly useful to have speech sounds for some
notification-related sounds. Heck, I even thought of doing a very
special sound theme, particularly for you
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 17:28 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
2008/12/12 Philip Withnall philip.withn...@gmail.com:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:42 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
I think it would be immensly useful to have speech sounds for some
notification-related sounds. Heck, I even thought
Hello,
Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
Iain * wrote:
But I see that no-one else cares
Or, you are not effectively communicating what you mean.
Actually, I understand Iain getting annoyed here. He makes a proposal
which has its merits, and likely has counter-points that have merit.
But it's very
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
Hello,
Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
Iain * wrote:
But I see that no-one else cares
Or, you are not effectively communicating what you mean.
Actually, I understand Iain getting annoyed here. He makes a proposal
which has its
Hi,
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org wrote:
Futhermore it's really much easier to open one capplet and be able to
mute half of the system sounds in just one click when preparing to
give a presentation
Like for power-management, this should be automated.
Hi,
[separate reply, because separate issue]
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org wrote:
Actually as it was pointed out his proposal is perfectly achievable as
a theme with oen sound and 3-4 symlinks for the main notification
categories (and no sounds for the
On Fri, 12.12.08 17:43, Dave Neary (dne...@gnome.org) wrote:
Iain wonders why there are 125 user-configurable system sounds in GNOME.
He sees that most of the sounds are application-specific, not
system-general, and suggests doing away with most of them, and letting
applications handle
On Fri, 12.12.08 12:20, Ronald S. Bultje (rsbul...@gmail.com) wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org
wrote:
Actually as it was pointed out his proposal is perfectly achievable as
a theme with oen sound and 3-4 symlinks for the main notification
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Lennart Poettering mzta...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Fri, 12.12.08 12:19, Ronald S. Bultje (rsbul...@gmail.com) wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org
wrote:
Futhermore it's really much easier to open one capplet and be able
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 18:34 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Fri, 12.12.08 12:19, Ronald S. Bultje (rsbul...@gmail.com) wrote:
Hi,
Heya!
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Patryk Zawadzki pat...@pld-linux.org
wrote:
Futhermore it's really much easier to open one capplet and be
On Fri, 12.12.08 18:42, Bastien Nocera (had...@hadess.net) wrote:
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 18:34 +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Fri, 12.12.08 12:19, Ronald S. Bultje (rsbul...@gmail.com) wrote:
Hi,
Heya!
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Patryk Zawadzki
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