[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Let's consider this completed now, and open new bugs for possible issues. ** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu) Status: In Progress => Fix Released -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu.

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

@Gunnar Hjalmarsson It is my pleasure :) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

@Jung-Kyu Park: Excellent! Thanks for testing and confirming. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

I can confirm that this font issue for Korean Hangul is resolved, tested on 2017.11.26.03:03:3 KST , Ubuntu 18.04 daily iso. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu.

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

On 2017-11-23 08:39, Jung-Kyu Park wrote: > It seems package fonts-nanum* have been removed correctly though, > fonts- unfonts* seems still exist on bionic, tested in daily cdimage > of today. The change in language-selector, which stops pulling fonts-unfonts-core, reached the archive as

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

It seems package fonts-nanum* have been removed correctly though, fonts- unfonts* seems still exist on bionic, tested in daily cdimage of today. ** Attachment added: "스크린샷, 2017-11-23 16-36-46.png"

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

With the latest language-selector upload, all the changes I can think of have been made. Still keeping this bug report open for now. Testing and feedback most welcome. ** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu) Status: Fix Released => In Progress -- You received this bug notification

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

This bug was fixed in the package language-selector - 0.184 --- language-selector (0.184) bionic; urgency=medium * data/pkg_depends: - Don't pull fonts-unfonts-core for Korean (LP: #1581160). - Pull hunspell-de-XX-frami for German. * language_support_pkgs.py: -

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

This bug was fixed in the package ubuntu-budgie-meta - 0.21 --- ubuntu-budgie-meta (0.21) bionic; urgency=medium * Refreshed dependencies * Removed fonts-nanum from desktop-recommends (LP: #1581160) * Removed fonts-takao-pgothic from desktop-recommends * Packaging Changes:

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu) Status: Fix Released => In Progress -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

This bug was fixed in the package language-selector - 0.183 --- language-selector (0.183) bionic; urgency=medium * fontconfig/30-cjk-aliases.conf: Complete with Noto fonts (LP: #1581160, LP: #1581151). -- Gunnar Hjalmarsson Fri, 10 Nov 2017 02:38:00

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

This bug was fixed in the package ubuntustudio-meta - 0.175 --- ubuntustudio-meta (0.175) bionic; urgency=medium * Refreshed dependencies * Removed fonts-nanum from desktop-core-recommends, desktop-recommends * Removed fonts-takao-pgothic from desktop-core-recommends, desktop-

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

This bug was fixed in the package ubuntukylin-meta - 0.28 --- ubuntukylin-meta (0.28) bionic; urgency=medium * Refreshed dependencies * Removed fonts-nanum from desktop-recommends (LP: #1581160) * Removed fonts-takao-pgothic from desktop-recommends * Bump debhelper compat to

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

On 2017-11-11 04:39, Jung-Kyu Park wrote: > Can this issue also affect to Xubuntu and Ubuntu-MATE? > I believe it would be good for them also. Yes, and they are included. Takao and Nanum were not explicitly mentioned in their seed branches, which is the reason why I didn't create Xubuntu and MATE

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

I meant Xubuntu :) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean? Status in

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Can this issue also affect to Zubuntu and Ubuntu-MATE? I believe it would be good for them also. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Changed in: ubuntu-budgie-meta (Ubuntu) Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Changed in: lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

This bug was fixed in the package ubuntu-meta - 1.407 --- ubuntu-meta (1.407) bionic; urgency=medium * Refreshed dependencies * Removed fonts-nanum from desktop-recommends (LP: #1581160) * Removed fonts-takao-pgothic from desktop-recommends -- Jeremy Bicha

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Changed in: ubuntukylin-meta (Ubuntu) Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Changed in: ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as default

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

@GunnarHjalmarsson Thank you for let me know clearly. I’ll go further test for these suggestion, as on the top of this bug. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu.

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

@Seong-ho Cho: I fear that we haven't been clear enough about the meaning of "default". The default font packages for Korean are those packages which are installed automatically when you 1. install Ubuntu and select Korean as the language, or 2. install the Korean language afterwards from

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

On 2017-11-10 10:25, Jung-Kyu Park wrote: > And, One more thing we should not miss is ibus-hangul. > When installing ibus-hangul its package contains fonts-nanum > automatically. > If someone install ibus-hangul manually fonts-nanum would be > installed during installation of ibus-hangul

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Deleting old fonts is not good for many person, it will deprive many person’s chance of font selection. many person’s preference should be kept within the distribution, otherwise ubuntu will lose many users. Font can be handeled as many software, but it is not a program. it’s a tool to express

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

@Gunnar Actually, Removing of those fonts (nanum, unfonts) are my first to do list after installation of Ubuntu (apt purge fonts-nanum* fonts-unfonts*) in terminal. As such, I agree with deletion of those fonts. And, One more thing we should not miss is ibus-hangul. When installing ibus-hangul

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Changed in: ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) Assignee: Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj) => (unassigned) ** Changed in: ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Changed in: lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

I have uploaded related changes to /etc/fonts/conf.avail/30-cjk-aliases.conf: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/345170169/language- selector_0.182_0.183.diff.gz Would appreciate if someone for respective language, who understands the meaning of those aliases, could review the changes. ** Changed

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Also affects: ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New ** Also affects: ubuntu-budgie-meta (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New ** Also affects: lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New ** Also affects: ubuntukylin-meta

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Branch linked: lp:~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.bionic_drop-nanum ** Branch linked: lp:~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/platform.bionic_drop-takao- nanum ** Branch linked: lp:~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.bionic_drop-takao- nanum ** Branch linked: lp:~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-budgie.bionic_drop-

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

On 2017-11-08 01:27, Jung-Kyu Park wrote: > @leejh76 , Hi Jong Hoon, It doesn't seem to quite related to this > font issue. > It seems a bug of input methods, I think , It would be better for you > file a bug to Libreoffice team, or those input methods developers. I agree with Jung-Kyu Park. I'd

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

@leejh76 , Hi Jong Hoon, It doesn't seem to quite related to this font issue. It seems a bug of input methods, I think , It would be better for you file a bug to Libreoffice team, or those input methods developers. @gunnarhj It works well for me in Ubuntu 17.10 under VB on macOS, If I can have

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Yes, Nanum also happens. Is it impossible to fix it on Noto environment? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as default font

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

On 2017-11-07 05:17, LEE, Jong Hoon wrote: > In end of typing text, I move mouse cursor then, last word was > disappeard. What happen...TT > > I'm using Fcitx to use Korea languge. Is this something which happens with Noto fonts but not with Nanum? -- You received this bug notification because

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Conld you check it for butiful typing? https://youtu.be/FIidIklVYKg Above video is explaning about bug of typing. In end of typing text, I move mouse cursor then, last word was disappeard. What happen...TT I'm using Fcitx to use Korea languge. Thanks for all of your great helping. -- You

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Finally the upload made it to bionic. I ask both Korean and Japanese users to test this and report feedback ASAP. Please see comment #28 about how to test. Changing the status of the language-selector task to "In Progress", since it's not unlikely that further changes are needed. ** Changed in:

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

This bug was fixed in the package language-selector - 0.182 --- language-selector (0.182) bionic; urgency=medium * data/pkg_depends: Pull Noto fonts for Japanese and Korean (LP: #1581160). * fontconfig/64-language-selector-prefer.conf: Add Korean fonts (LP: #1581160). *

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Let's get started with this. I have uploaded some language-selector changes to bionic. They include: * The Japanese config file proposed by Mitsuya Shibata in comment #11. * Adding of Korean entries to /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf To make it easier to test on Ubuntu

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Correction: that oss-desktop-korean mail [1] is not only intended for Debian, though I created that group and also I am a Debian developer. (Actually Debian doesn't have distribution-wide custom font config.) I already filed the change request to the upstream (fontconfig) [2]. I prefer Noto Sans

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

As a Korean, I prefer Nanum fonts because of it also has fixed width Hangul font, Nanum Gothic Coding. I'm worry about changing to Noto fonts will make terminal look ugly with Hangul characters. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Hello, Gunnar and Everyone. First, Thanks Gunnar for informing our Korea Community about this issue. If we can have enough test and feedback, And if we also have an option to rollback to old Nanum fonts when we face with unresolvable issue, I agree with changing default font for Korean from

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Thanks for further input. Then it looks like we are agreed to change to Noto for both Japanese and Korean in the development version of Ubuntu 18.04. I'll wait a day or two, and if nobody has strong objections, I'll make some changes. Then, indeed, I'm going to ask for testing and feedback, so

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Yes, I have seen that mail 1 hour ago, and I think that issue is occurred by improper hinting, sub-pixel order and DPI. my browser(Epiphany 3.24.4 and Chromium 63.0.3230.0, which is compiled into my system, and I have all custom fontconfig value to see text clearly) has no problem which said by

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Hmm.. We are still in the beginning of the 18.04 development cycle. One way to deal with it might be to do it now, then test, fix and evaluate during a few months, and reverse back to Nanum before the release of 18.04 if we'd fail to make Noto fonts look good for Korean. See also this message:

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

we should know that Noto sans is not small font set, complete Noto sans CJK font set almost takes up to 400MiB(7 to 8 times bigger than other fonts), but as Jang said, Noto sans has many advantage, it gives us chance to select one of many more thickness, size, style and so on without seeing a bad

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

First and foremost, I would like to support this suggestion. Thanks to Chinese Team to consider a universal font of CJK. This is because we had some troubles to deal with each fonts' problems in the past since we cannot know properties of each countries' fonts. Hence, as we adopt the Noto Sans

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Thanks for your comment, Seong-ho Cho. Default fonts for CJK languages is handled independently in Ubuntu, and there is no requirement to follow Debian in this respect, even if Debian provides the fonts packages. So if you need more time to discuss this in the Korean community, then let's not

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

umm ... yes, This is one of Korean user, and my opinion is, we need more time to discuss about this issue, and, we would better to think this issue as language specific, separately, solution of this issue should not be handled together with problem on Chinese and Japanese. China, Japan and Korea

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

To any Korean users out there: I'm about to change the default fonts for Japanese to Noto fonts. Is there an interest in changing the default fonts for Korean as well, i.e. from Nanum to Noto fonts? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

@Yuan Chao: Thanks for explaining. Btw, do you have an opinion on bug #1581151, more specifically comment #4? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title:

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Hinting options are rather font dependent. The old free fonts for CJK usually do not have proper hinting embedded so certain specific tweaks (ex. auto hint) are needed to avoid faint strokes. The draw backs are the spaces between strokes may be significantly changed for small size glyphs. It would

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Yeah.. I have no idea why those changes were not upstreamed. The explanation might well be that nobody bothered to do it. Anyway, Noto Sans has been the default for Chinese since Xenial, so until somebody says otherwise, I'm going to assume that the Chinese users are happy without similar hinting

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

> Hmm.. Wondering if that hinting configuration would improve the experience for Chinese and Korean too. Sorry, I don't know. Anyway, fonts-ipafont/fonts-ipaexfont/fonts-vlgothic has a similar patches as "ubuntu specific patch", i.e. original debian packages don't have its patches. If smaller

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Thanks Mitsuya, then we know what to do. I'll make the change when we can start working with Ubuntu 18.04. Hmm.. Wondering if that hinting configuration would improve the experience for Chinese and Korean too. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages,

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

> Would that be a hinting configuration issue? You pointed it out clearly! Previous takao font has following configuration. TakaoGothic 18 hintnone false

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Would that be a hinting configuration issue? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581160 Title: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Can you please show the output of: fc-match -a | head -n 70 to check if you possibly have some other font installed with ability to render Japanese characters. Maybe there is a need for a configuration file similar to the /etc/fonts/conf.avail/69-language-selector-zh-*.conf files. I thought

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

For example "全", its spaces between vertical bars should be same. But displayed glyph has more space for 1st and 2nd vertical bars than 2nd and 3rd vertical bars. Is this settings problem? or is other glyph used? ** Attachment added: "noto_glyph.png"

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Attachment added: "wikipedia_noto.png" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1581160/+attachment/4964273/+files/wikipedia_noto.png -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

** Attachment added: "terminal_noto.png" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1581160/+attachment/4964272/+files/terminal_noto.png -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

> sudo apt purge fonts-takao-* > sudo apt install fonts-noto-cjk-extra I tried it. Displayed glyphs are not so bad. However all glyphs are slightly thin. And it seems that some glyphs are not Noto's glyph... ** Attachment added: "wikipedia_takao.png"

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Hi Mitsuya, My turn to apologize for late reply. :) I think we'd better wait with this till the beginning of the 18.04 cycle, so we have time for testing and possible modifications. In the meantime, and if you like, you could help to test a possible solution right now. My belief is that the

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Hi Gunnar and all, Finally, NotoSerif fonts are included at 1.004+repack3-1 and synced to artful at Jun. https://packages.qa.debian.org/f/fonts-noto-cjk/news/20170404T034919Z.html https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-noto-cjk/1:1.004+repack3-1 I (as a Japanese LoCo team member) think that

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users. ** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu) Status: New => Confirmed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to language-selector in Ubuntu.

[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581160] Re: Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?

Please take a look at the very old bug , which I fear is just as valid today. Suppose the problem would go away by switching to Noto Sans for Japanese. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop Packages, which is subscribed to