[dev-biblio] Re: Re: Re: Bibliographic Issues should be added to the marketing strategy
Bruce D'Arcus wrote: To understand what it might mean from a user perspective, go try out the latest beta of Word 2007. Ehm, no Windows around ;-) It's not that this stuff is rocket science, and that MS is somehow brilliant. They took the same approach we have been planning. It's just that some executive or manager somewhere at MS just said let's prioritize higher ed in the next release and people made it happen. You're probably right, let's see what will happen. Matej -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. -- Barry Goldwater (actually written by Karl Hess) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev-biblio] Re: Bibliographic Issues should be added to the marketing strategy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a scholar in the humanities, I have been hoping for years that OOo would introduce some kind of decent bibliographic support. For I'm embarking on a new research project now, and for the first time in 5 years I've kept the windows partition on my new computer; I'm going to install MS Office and EndNote. I hate to do it, but I feel I really have no other choice. I have actually went now through the similar process of disappointment with OpenOffice.org and I am humbly returning to LyX (http://www.lyx.org; editor using LaTeX as its back-end). I am PhD candidate in sociology/criminology, so my requirements are probably similar to yours. Although BibTeX is far from perfect (Bruce will probably reply in litany of problems with BibTeX and he is right), with whatever limitations it has it just works. If you are starting new project, so the downstream compatibility is not the biggest issue, I would strongly suggest you to take a look. The next step after installation is to subscribe to lyx-users@lists.lyx.org (send empty email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) -- I consider the community around LyX to be one of the most pleasant and newbie-friendly on the Internet. Concerning the future of whole OOo-bibliographic project -- isn't it the time to think about Plan B? I have still in the back of my bran, that there actually IS working bibliographic manager for OpenOffice.org; I mean, Bibus http://bibus-biblio.sourceforge.net/. It is ugly as hell, its database structure is ugly as hell (just slightly upgraded current OOo Bibliography), etc. but it works. Would it be possible to enter into some kind of negotiation with its maintainer (Pierre Martineau [EMAIL PROTECTED]) with this plan: 1) we could offer him nice hosting at openoffice.org (CVS, web, list, issuezilla, etc.) plus PR value of being the official bibliographic support for OOo. 2) the work should begin with making sure that bibus actually works on all platforms were OOo is officially support without any terrible obstacles (what's the status of SQLlite support in OOo? is there any development on the sqlite-odbc driver? I don't know, but these were the crucial problems for me, why I haven't switched to bibus myself yet). 3) then we would begin refactoring his code (it's Python after all, so it should be possible to find people who can do it) to support better Metadata -- so far probably only in Bibus, until there will be better support in C-code of OOo for it. 4) If the project will be successful and we will attract more users from academia to use OOo for their scholarly work, we can use it as a leverage against Sun to get some real support from them. Basically, what I am suggesting is the same what Linus did when he was refactoring Minix (to use current buzzword) to serve his goals, which is how Linux was born. Best, Matej -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 Ludwig Boltzmann, who spent much of his life studying statistical mechanics, died in 1906, by his own hand. Paul Ehrenfest, carrying on the work, died similarly in 1933. Now it is our turn to study statistical mechanics. -- David L. Goodstein States of Matter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev-biblio] Re: Re: Bibliographic Issues should be added to the marketing strategy
Bruce D'Arcus wrote: My opinion for quite awhile has been that Plan B needs to be exactly what we are doing: starting by implementing the new ODF citation support, hooking up citeproc to it, and exposing an API.* Without that, we will make no progress. Or at least, that's my position; I'd rather use Word. That's nice, except that unless you will be done (who will implement new ODF citation support in OOo?), you will have no useable bibliographic support in OpenOffice.org, no users, and no push on Sun to do something about it. I will rather stay with LyX. Matej -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. -- Douglas Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev-biblio] Re: Re: embedded references/functional requirements wiki page
Bruce D'Arcus wrote: Matej is just asking for the ability to regenerate the complete list, rather than only allow appending and deleting individual items. That's probably sensible in general. Certainly, all used references should be (in the original format-agnostic shape) included in ODT document for easy transport between different computers and users. Matej -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 Of course I'm respectable. I'm old. Politicians, ugly buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough. --John Huston in Chinatown. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev-biblio] Re: Re: Re: embedded references/functional requirements wiki page
Bruce D'Arcus wrote: where possible to define citation keys. In some cases (dois, isbns, etc.) this is easier than others, but the pay-off will be large. If my citation key in the document is identified with urn:isbn:32343545 it's trivial to grab the associate bib record from many sources. If it's some user-specific key (smith99) or local database number, then stuff breaks. You are certainly right with two caveats: a) actually ISBN (as much as I would love to like it) is pretty poor, because it is linked to the particular _edition_ to the book (and it is even different between hardcover and paperback edition), not the book itself. I am not interested that author had particular edition of Practice of the Presence of God in his library, I want to have fixed reference to the book itself. There are different ISBN-translators (http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2003/11/13.html and for example http://labs.oclc.org/xisbn/0883681056 ), but it is still clumsy. b) actually, good old LCCN (BX2349 .H42) is much better, but probably too Americo-centric and limited to the published books. c) good standardized own system based on the unchanging characteristics of book (like mentioned bibshare; it would need extension, but it is good foundation) is actually quite good. Of course, you hit standards are great -- why not to create yet another one problem, but still it is not that hopeless as it looks like. Best, Matej -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 }}} - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev-biblio] Re: embedded references/functional requirements wiki page
Bruce D'Arcus wrote: my question: what is lost when info is embedded rather than fetched? Not much. Synchronization with further modifications of the database -- when I open five years old document, I would like it to reflect all updates and corrections I made into my central bibliographic database in meantime. Matej -- GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23 Marion St. #3, (617) 876-1259, ICQ 132822213 I believe in the power of prayer. It's been said: I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous. The prayers of a friend are one of life's most gracious gifts. -- George W. Bush at the 2001 National Prayer Breakfast - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev-biblio] Multi-lingual bibliographic database
Hi, I am a Czech studying in USA so I have a lot of citations which I would like to use both in my Czech and English papers. Can't we use xml:lang to be able to make multiple fields of the same name, just with different xml:lang? Thanks, Matej -- Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/ GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. -- Mark Twain - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev-biblio] Re: configuring grouping
David Wilson wrote: Sorry Bruce this seems to make a bit more difficult. To make it even more complicated (but maybe not) -- American lawyers in most of their works (be it pleading to the court or scholarly writing -- BTW, I think that for US lawyers could well developed bibliography management make OOo killing feature which would make them switch from WordPerfect (finally :-)) have something they call Table of Authorities. It is some mixture between table of contents (and legal texts having ToA have ToC as well), index and list of references. Basically it lists all references (cases, regulations, laws, legal journals, and anything else) which is used in the text as an authority. Whole list is divided into categories for each type of reference. Some examples of how to do it (with Word or WordPerfect): * http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide\ /complex_documents.htm#Table%20of%20Authorities * http://www.law.berkeley.edu/library/computing/toa.pdf * http://www.microcounsel.com/BRIDGE86.HTM * http://www.u.arizona.edu/~llanger/table_of_authorities.htm Some examples of how it does look * http://www.lambdalegal.org/binary-data/LAMBDA_PDF/pdf/357.pdf (see page iii) * http://www.epic.org/free_speech/censorware/cyberpatrol/ct_app_brief.pdf (see page iv, but formatting is IMHO weird). Just food for thoughts, Matej -- Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/ GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go. -- Oscar Wilde - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
