[STATUS] (flood) Tue Feb 5 09:52:15 EST 2002

2002-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
flood STATUS: -*-text-*- Last modified at [$Date: 2002/01/17 01:09:45 $] Release: milestone-04: In development milestone-03: Tagged January 16, 2002 ASF-transfer: Released July 17, 2001 milestone-02: Tagged August 13, 2001

Re: more minor 2.0.31 breakage

2002-02-05 Thread Stas Bekman
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: From: Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:18 PM I think it's a bug. The sub-directory can be password-protected. Does it mean that mod_autoindex won't display it, since it'll fail to run the sub-request? By design, for better

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/server listen.c

2002-02-05 Thread Cliff Woolley
On 5 Feb 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Index: listen.c === RCS file: /home/cvs/httpd-2.0/server/listen.c,v retrieving revision 1.69 retrieving revision 1.70 diff -u -r1.69 -r1.70 --- listen.c4 Feb 2002

Re: more minor 2.0.31 breakage

2002-02-05 Thread Stas Bekman
Status update: Cliff has committed the fix, I've have committed the new test. So I guess this issue is closed now. On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Stas Bekman wrote: William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: From: Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:18 PM I think it's a

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/modules/experimental cache_storage.c mod_cache.c mod_cache.h

2002-02-05 Thread Graham Leggett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: add another option.. CacheIgnoreCacheControl. this ignores a 'incoming request's attempts to get a fresh copy. Mainly I see this as being usefull in r-proxy's Ignoring the cache control headers effectively breaks the HTTP protocol - is there a specific application

Re: more minor 2.0.31 breakage

2002-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Stas Bekman wrote: agreed, but auth required is not 500 ;) But you said what you were getting was a 500, not a 401: When I've tried to enter the new directory manually http://apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/ I've got 500 error. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/modules/generators mod_autoindex.c

2002-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List files that would result in HTTP_UNAUTHORIZED in addition to successes and redirections, since there's a chance the client will actually have the proper authorization to retrieve them. -1 (yes, a veto). Standard security practice: you don't expose even

Re: more minor 2.0.31 breakage

2002-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Stas Bekman wrote: Status update: Cliff has committed the fix, I've have committed the new test. So I guess this issue is closed now. No, because I've vetoed the 'fix' as a security violation. Sorry.. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author,

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/server listen.c

2002-02-05 Thread Jeff Trawick
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: rbb 02/02/04 22:16:04 Modified:.STATUS server listen.c Log: This change keeps the server from allowing multiple instances to bind to the same port. Previously, this was necessary, because the Windows MPM was

Windows is able to listen on the same port with multiple servers ?! WAS: RE: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/server listen.c

2002-02-05 Thread Sander Striker
Hi, Stupid question time: how does windows hand of something to the right server? I thought that the port/ip combination was supposed to be unique. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: rbb 02/02/04 22:16:04 Modified:.STATUS server listen.c Log:

[PATCH] use TCP_DEFER_ACCEPT on Linux

2002-02-05 Thread Brian Akins
I basically copied the way the FreeBSD filters are used. This does a setsockopt to turn on TCP_DEFER_ACCEPT on 2.4 linux kernels. In Order for everything to compile correctly, use -DTCP_DEFER_ACCEPT in your CFLAGS. -- Brian Akins Systems Engineer III CNN Internet Technologies diff -pru

Re: more minor 2.0.31 breakage

2002-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
* On 2002-02-05 at 09:06, Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] excited the electrons to say: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: No, because I've vetoed the 'fix' as a security violation. Sorry.. So you say it's proper not to display a directory name if it requires auth?

RE: new mod_proxy + multiple set-cookie

2002-02-05 Thread Joshua Slive
From: Graham Leggett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Joshua Slive wrote: Just a heads up: There are multiple bug reports that claim that the new mod_proxy is messing up when multiple set-cookie headers are present, which prevents some sites like hotmail from working correctly. Anyone

Re: more minor 2.0.31 breakage

2002-02-05 Thread Jim Jagielski
Stas Bekman wrote: No, because I've vetoed the 'fix' as a security violation. Sorry.. So you say it's proper not to display a directory name if it requires auth? Yes -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/modules/generators mod_autoindex.c

2002-02-05 Thread Cliff Woolley
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List files that would result in HTTP_UNAUTHORIZED in addition to successes and redirections, since there's a chance the client will actually have the proper authorization to retrieve them. -1 (yes, a

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/modules/generators mod_autoindex.c

2002-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Cliff Woolley wrote: Reverted. Ta. 401 and 500 are (or can be) slightly special cases. 401 because we're not sure the user can access the resource and shouldn't let him know it even exists without that surety. And 500 because we're not sure what went wrong, and if the config error were

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/modules/experimental cache_storage.c

2002-02-05 Thread Ian Holsman
Graham Leggett wrote: This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --msE98EC4A31A500D9720859F64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: add another option.. CacheIgnoreCacheControl. this ignores a

Re: Windows is able to listen on the same port with multiple servers?! WAS: RE: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/server listen.c

2002-02-05 Thread rbb
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Sander Striker wrote: Hi, Stupid question time: how does windows hand of something to the right server? I thought that the port/ip combination was supposed to be unique. It doesn't. Basically, the second server can bind to the port without an error, but it won't get

[RFC] -- adding DNS timeout/retry directives to the core

2002-02-05 Thread Ian Holsman
we got bit by this on one of our high-load development servers. the DNS server hung, and all the webserver ground to a halt. in 1.3 we had a custom module which tweaked the resolver's retransmission time interval #times to retransmit options (in the global structure _res on most unixes) now

Solaris8 Problem with native compiler

2002-02-05 Thread jean-frederic clere
Hi, I have some problems with the httpd-2.0 (from CVS). Whe compiled with Sun compiler it hangs at startup: +++ $c libc.so.1`_lwp_sema_wait+8(8d7f0, ff19e000, 0, 8d738, 2501c, 0)

RE: [RFC] -- adding DNS timeout/retry directives to the core

2002-02-05 Thread Ryan Bloom
Why do your web servers rely on DNS at all? If your config file doesn't specify HostNameLookup on, and you always use dotted quad notation, the server shouldn't ever use the DNS server. If it does, I would consider that a showstopper. Ryan -- Ryan

Re: [RFC] -- adding DNS timeout/retry directives to the core

2002-02-05 Thread Ian Holsman
Ryan Bloom wrote: Why do your web servers rely on DNS at all? If your config file doesn't specify HostNameLookup on, and you always use dotted quad notation, the server shouldn't ever use the DNS server. If it does, I would consider that a showstopper. we don't do hostname lookup on our

2.0.31 on Windows as service

2002-02-05 Thread Dwayne Miller
This morning, for the first time on my system, Apache 2.0.(31) started as a service automatically. I was so thrilled that I restarted the computer to see it again. And it worked. Then later, I lost my DHCP lease, and had to reboot again. This time, the following text was in my error.log.

Re: Solaris8 Problem with native compiler

2002-02-05 Thread Jeff Trawick
jean-frederic clere [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, I have some problems with the httpd-2.0 (from CVS). Whe compiled with Sun compiler it hangs at startup: +++ $c (some internal library calls omitted)

Re: 2.0.31 on Windows as service

2002-02-05 Thread William A. Rowe, Jr.
From: Dwayne Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:40 PM This morning, for the first time on my system, Apache 2.0.(31) started as a service automatically. I was so thrilled that I restarted the computer to see it again. And it worked. :) Then later, I lost my

Re: Wondering what I'm missing...

2002-02-05 Thread Paul J. Reder
When I talk about dereferencing into the pointer I am talking about within the apr_rmm_malloc and apr_rmm_free functions, not inside mod_auth_digest. I realize that apr_rmm_malloc returns offsets into the var, but the var is inited to NULL. Offsetting into there seems, um, problematic. :) I

Re: bugdb userdatabase

2002-02-05 Thread Greg Ames
Joshua Slive wrote: Woops. I just realized the AuthDBMType directive is already there, so my diagnosis must be wrong. Oh well, any ideas? well, AuthDBMUserFile /home/apmail/bugdbaccounts AuthDBMType DB was just a guess. my ideas: * find a Smart Person (certainly not me) who can

Re: 2.0.31 on Windows as service

2002-02-05 Thread William A. Rowe, Jr.
From: Dwayne Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:09 PM Dwayne... what CPU is your box on [staring on hunches here] ... speed? It's a laptop with an 850 Mhz Pentium. Actual id is x86 Family 6 Model 8 Stepping 6 GenuineIntel More info than you need?? :)

Re: Wondering what I'm missing...

2002-02-05 Thread William A. Rowe, Jr.
From: Paul J. Reder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:20 PM When I talk about dereferencing into the pointer I am talking about within the apr_rmm_malloc and apr_rmm_free functions, not inside mod_auth_digest. I realize that apr_rmm_malloc returns offsets into the var,

Re: 2.0.31 on Windows as service

2002-02-05 Thread Dwayne Miller
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: From: Dwayne Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:09 PM Dwayne... what CPU is your box on [staring on hunches here] ... speed? It's a laptop with an 850 Mhz Pentium. Actual id is x86 Family 6 Model 8 Stepping 6 GenuineIntel More info

Re: bugdb userdatabase

2002-02-05 Thread Greg Ames
Greg Ames wrote: The could not open message is probably an important clue: [Tue Feb 05 02:35:30 2002] [error] [client 61.11.11.198] (2)No such file or directory: could not open dbm auth file: /home/apmail/bugdbaccounts, referer: http://httpd.apache.org/dev/ I'll fire it up on port 8092

Re: 2.0.31 on Windows as service

2002-02-05 Thread William A. Rowe, Jr.
From: Dwayne Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:45 PM William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: Was this a soft restart apache -k restart or a hard restart? I just clicked on the restart computer option on the shutdown menu. I did not gracefully stop the apache service

Re: bugdb userdatabase

2002-02-05 Thread Greg Ames
Ian Holsman wrote: [Tue Feb 05 02:35:30 2002] [error] [client 61.11.11.198] (2)No such file or directory: could not open dbm auth file: /home/apmail/bugdbaccounts, referer: http://httpd.apache.org/dev/ time to dive into the code and see where the error message comes from, and what the

Re: bugdb userdatabase

2002-02-05 Thread Jeff Trawick
Greg Ames [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ian Holsman wrote: [Tue Feb 05 02:35:30 2002] [error] [client 61.11.11.198] (2)No such file or directory: could not open dbm auth file: /home/apmail/bugdbaccounts, referer: http://httpd.apache.org/dev/ time to dive into the code and see where the

[PATCH] Remove the insert_transport_filters hook

2002-02-05 Thread Ryan Bloom
This patch removes the insert_transport_filters hook, and replaces it with the pre_connection hook. The were in the same place, with the only difference being the arguments and one was RUN_FIRST while the other was RUN_ALL. I solved the first problem by changing the arguments of the

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/modules/experimental cache_storage.c

2002-02-05 Thread Graham Leggett
Ian Holsman wrote: This directive is only on the incoming request, If I'm caching results of a expensive call to a backend server, why should some piddly client tell me to re-get the info, forcing a subsecond response to become a 10 second one ? Because the HTTP protocol says it can. Part

Re: UseCanonicalName considered harmful

2002-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: When enabled, UseCanonicalName causes the server to create any server-self-referential URLs using the name by which it knows itself -- as opposed to what the client may have called it. In many cases this is entirely reasonable and good -- but it completely

Re: UseCanonicalName considered harmful

2002-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
(I'm hitting send too soon..) As an example, consider a 'ServerName MyServer running on localhost, and requesting the directory object http://localhost:3/foo mod_dir will cause a redirect in order to pick up '/foo/' instead, but if UseCanonicalName is set to 'On', the redirect will

Re: [PATCH] Remove the insert_transport_filters hook

2002-02-05 Thread Bill Stoddard
This approach has an aesthetic problem that annoys me. If mod_yadda wants to insert its own replacement of CORE_IN and CORE_OUT, how does it reliable do so and ensure: 1. CORE_IN and CORE_OUT are not also installed (their presence in the filter chain when they are not used is not right IMHO). 2.

RE: UseCanonicalName considered harmful

2002-02-05 Thread Ryan Bloom
-Original Message- From: Rodent of Unusual Size [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: UseCanonicalName considered harmful Ryan Bloom wrote: Shouldn't we fix the canonicalisation then? If you have configured

Any vetos on releasing 1.3.24...

2002-02-05 Thread Jim Jagielski
I'm still gunning to t/r and release 1.3.24 within the week. If this creates heartburn for anyone, speak up now. -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ A society that will

RE: Any vetos on releasing 1.3.24...

2002-02-05 Thread Ryan Bloom
-Original Message- From: William A. Rowe, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Any vetos on releasing 1.3.24... From: Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:09 PM

Re: core dump on daedalus Monday afternoon

2002-02-05 Thread Greg Ames
Jeff Trawick wrote: Here is some basic information: Which you can get to on daedalus via gdb /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd /usr/local/apache/corefiles/httpd.core.1 The following script shows a way to recreate: The client connected and wrote a header which indicated that a body

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/modules/experimental cache_storage.c

2002-02-05 Thread Ian Holsman
Graham Leggett wrote: This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --ms4949D2B6D144F9280EAD0AAA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Holsman wrote: This directive is only on the incoming request, If I'm caching

Re: Any vetos on releasing 1.3.24...

2002-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
* On 2002-02-05 at 16:42, Bill Stoddard [EMAIL PROTECTED] excited the electrons to say: I am really against letting this XP issue hold up the 1.3.24 release. What's the reason for *not* waiting? In what way did 1.3.23 regress? (I.e., what deadly bug is in 1.3.23 that wasn't in 1.3.22?) --

RE: [PATCH] Remove the insert_transport_filters hook

2002-02-05 Thread Ryan Bloom
From: Bill Stoddard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PATCH] Remove the insert_transport_filters hook This approach has an aesthetic problem that annoys me. If mod_yadda wants to insert its own replacement of

RE: UseCanonicalName considered harmful

2002-02-05 Thread Joshua Slive
From: Ryan Bloom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] From: Rodent of Unusual Size [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Ryan Bloom wrote: Shouldn't we fix the canonicalisation then? If you have configured your server so that it can't be reached through the canonical name, then you have an

Re: Any vetos on releasing 1.3.24...

2002-02-05 Thread Jim Jagielski
At 3:17 PM -0600 2/5/02, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: From: Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:09 PM I'm still gunning to t/r and release 1.3.24 within the week. If this creates heartburn for anyone, speak up now. Jim, I'm suspicious that whatever bug we hit

RE: UseCanonicalName considered harmful

2002-02-05 Thread Joshua Slive
From: Joshua Slive [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Jsohua. And yes, I am completely incapable of spelling my own name. That's what 10 years of higher education will do for you. J.

RE: UseCanonicalName considered harmful

2002-02-05 Thread Ryan Bloom
From: Ryan Bloom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] From: Rodent of Unusual Size [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Ryan Bloom wrote: Shouldn't we fix the canonicalisation then? If you have configured your server so that it can't be reached through the canonical name, then you have

another type of 2.0.31 coredump

2002-02-05 Thread Greg Ames
I'm going to bounce the server on daedalus back to 2.0.29 later tonight. We need fixes for the input side problems and we need a working bug db. This one could have the same underlying cause as the other dumps, but it's hard to say at this point. Maybe gdb is confused by recursive ap_rgetline

Re: Any vetos on releasing 1.3.24...

2002-02-05 Thread William A. Rowe, Jr.
From: Bill Stoddard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:47 PM I am really against letting this XP issue hold up the 1.3.24 release. Allan Edwards has been able to reproduce the problem and it is looking more and more like an XP bug. We send a buffer full of A's on the

Re: [PATCH] Remove the insert_transport_filters hook

2002-02-05 Thread Bill Stoddard
Thanks for the explanation. The patch to eliminate install_transport_filters gets a +1 from me. Bill From: Bill Stoddard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PATCH] Remove the insert_transport_filters hook This

Re: core dump on daedalus Monday afternoon

2002-02-05 Thread Jeff Trawick
Greg Ames [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The client connected and wrote a header which indicated that a body was forthcoming but we hit EOF before reading any body bytes. Cool, huh? We got a couple more of these today - httpd.core.2 and .4 . .3 is different; I'll post the backtrace in a

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0/server core.c

2002-02-05 Thread Jeff Trawick
Justin Erenkrantz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 10:56:44PM -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: trawick 02/02/05 14:56:44 Modified:.CHANGES server core.c Log: In core_input_filter, check for an empty brigade after

httpd.core.3 (2nd flavor seen on current code)

2002-02-05 Thread Jeff Trawick
The data read from the network: read 1: (gdb) x/255c ((core_net_rec *)r-input_filters-next-ctx)-client_socket-head-next-data 0x812441c: 71 'G' 69 'E' 84 'T' 32 ' ' 47 '/' 99 'c' 111 'o' 99 'c' 0x8124424: 111 'o' 111 'o' 110 'n' 47 '/' 100 'd' 101 'e' 118 'v' 101 'e' 0x812442c:

Re: httpd.core.3 (2nd flavor seen on current code)

2002-02-05 Thread Jeff Trawick
Jeff Trawick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'll try such a request and see if I can recreate it. I wouldn't be surprised if the code change I committed earlier will take care of it. Fortunately, I can easily recreate it using the data I sent before. Unfortunately, the code change I committed

Re: [PATCH] Re: httpd.core.3 (2nd flavor seen on current code)

2002-02-05 Thread Justin Erenkrantz
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:01:49PM -0500, Jeff Trawick wrote: This is it for me today... Perhaps the patch will show somebody (Justin?) what happened with httpd.core.3. Okay. Mucho thanks for looking into it. I'll try to take it from here. =) -- justin

Re: UseCanonicalName considered harmful

2002-02-05 Thread Roy T. Fielding
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:58:35PM -0800, Ryan Bloom wrote: Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: When enabled, UseCanonicalName causes the server to create any server-self-referential URLs using the name by which it knows itself -- as opposed to what the client may have called it. In

Re: [PATCH] Re: httpd.core.3 (2nd flavor seen on current code)

2002-02-05 Thread Justin Erenkrantz
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:01:49PM -0500, Jeff Trawick wrote: This is it for me today... Perhaps the patch will show somebody (Justin?) what happened with httpd.core.3. Yeah, this patch is right. I didn't commit it with the goto because Greg Ames (he volunteered) is going to need to fix up

prefork segfaults under load

2002-02-05 Thread Adam Sussman
I'm seeing a lot of error messages like this in my error log under load with lots of children (1300 or so): [Tue Feb 05 12:52:17 2002] [notice] child pid 32299 exit signal Segmentation fault (11), possible coredump in /tmp [Tue Feb 05 12:52:17 2002] [notice] child pid 32298 exit signal

Re: 2.0.31 on Windows as service

2002-02-05 Thread Dwayne Miller
I've been watching the log files and restarting the server for a while now. Looks like the child may be starting before the parent has completely opened and written to all of the pipes. William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: From: Dwayne Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:45 PM

Re: [PATCH] Re: bugdb userdatabase

2002-02-05 Thread Greg Ames
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: I could have sworn that I committed that. Aha! In fact, I posted a patch on 7 Jan for this. applied, but: configuring package in srclib/apr-util now [...] checking for ldap support...checking for gdbm.h... no checking for db4/db.h... no checking for db.h... yes

back on httpd 2.0.29

2002-02-05 Thread Greg Ames
...as of Tuesday, 05-Feb-2002 20:19:24 PST due mostly to bug db problems. Greg

HTTP, Internet Explorer, and *large* POSTs

2002-02-05 Thread Jerry Asher
I have a question regarding the HTTP protocol and how Internet Explorer implements it. An application I have written that accepts POSTs fails at times when the POST comes from Internet Explorer 5 or 5.5, and always works if the POST comes from Mozilla, Netscape, Opera, or just about anything

Current HEAD on Win32

2002-02-05 Thread Sebastian Bergmann
(This posting maybe a dupe, I hope it's not) If I start Apache 2 as a service, I get the following lines in my error.log: [Wed Feb 06 06:29:27 2002] [crit] (22506)The handle is invalid.: child: Unable to access scoreboard handle from parent [Wed Feb 06 06:29:28 2002] [crit] (22505)Access

Re: Current HEAD on Win32

2002-02-05 Thread William A. Rowe, Jr.
From: Sebastian Bergmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 12:35 AM (This posting maybe a dupe, I hope it's not) Nope. Win32 is borked right now... I'm following in rbb's footsteps and in the process of normalizing where things happen in the mpm, fixing it's assorted