Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

lity of non-LTS releases. If the principle is that every > > > > release is supported for 2 years, that > > > > would be good. I suppose that if the burden of having that many > > > in-support > > > > releases proves too heavy, > > > > as y

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

ple is that every > > > release is supported for 2 years, that > > > would be good. I suppose that if the burden of having that many > > in-support > > > releases proves too heavy, > > > as you say we could reconsider. > > > > > > Andrew Schofield > > > > > > ---

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

uppose that if the burden of having that many >> in-support >>> releases proves too heavy, >>> as you say we could reconsider. >>> >>> Andrew Schofield >>> >>> >>>> From: g...@conflue

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

uppose that if the burden of having that many > in-support > > releases proves too heavy, > > as you say we could reconsider. > > > > Andrew Schofield > > > > -------- > > > From: g...@confluent.io > > > Date: Thu, 25 Aug

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

urden of having that many in-support > releases proves too heavy, > as you say we could reconsider. > > Andrew Schofield > > > > From: g...@confluent.io > > Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:57:30 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Time

RE: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

releases proves too heavy, as you say we could reconsider. Andrew Schofield > From: g...@confluent.io > Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:57:30 -0700 > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka > To: dev@kafka.apache.org > > I prefer I

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

to be deeply knowledgeable about its innards. > > LTS works nicely for plenty of open-source projects. I think it would work > well for Kafka too. > > Andrew Schofield > > ------------ >> From: ofir.ma...@equalum.io >> Date: Thu, 25 Aug

RE: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

y for plenty of open-source projects. I think it would work well for Kafka too. Andrew Schofield > From: ofir.ma...@equalum.io > Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 16:07:07 +0300 > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka > To: dev@ka

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Regarding bug fixes, you may want to consider to have an LTS release once a year - designating it for longer-term support / better for the masses. If you like that - then fix bugs in trunk, backport important ones to latest release + the last two LTS releases. Even if you don't - if a downstream

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Thanks for putting this together Gwen. I think it sounds reasonable and instead of trying to optimise every aspect of it ahead of time (which is hard, subjective and time-consuming), I am happy to try what is being proposed and tweak based on experience. One thing we should pay particular

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Hi Team Kafka, As per the KIP meeting, I created a wiki: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Time+Based+Release+Plan Summarizing most of the discussion so far. Comments and additional discussion is welcome :) Gwen On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Vahid S Hashemian

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Time-based releases is a good idea and something that has proved to be working in a number of open source projects. One successful example is Node.js, that goes through two major releases a year. The interesting fact about the two releases is that only one (the even-number release) comes with

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

+1 Having better predictability when features will land is a huge benefit. On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > I'm following along on the thread so for sure! :) > >> On Aug 16, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Gwen Shapira wrote: >> >> Absolutely! >>

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

I'm following along on the thread so for sure! :) > On Aug 16, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Gwen Shapira wrote: > > Absolutely! > > If you have any concrete suggestions for steps we can take to improve > the process, this will be most awesome. We'd love to learn from your > long

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Absolutely! If you have any concrete suggestions for steps we can take to improve the process, this will be most awesome. We'd love to learn from your long experience in Apache :) Gwen On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:59 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > By being aware of the potential

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

By being aware of the potential issues, it's easier to address them at the start, and to create a process which does what it can to "ensure" the problems don't pop up :) > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Ismael Juma wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > Thanks for your feedback. We value the

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Hi Jim, Thanks for your feedback. We value the community and we definitely want Kafka to remain a fun and friendly place to participate. Under this proposal, volunteers will still be able to do the work when they can. The benefit is that it is likely to reach users faster since the next release

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

The idea of time-based releases make sense. The issue is when they become the tail wagging the dog. Recall that all developers and contributors are assumed to be doing this because they are personally invested in the project. Their is also the assumption that, as such, they are volunteers and do

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Exactly :) The goal is to have stable releases. We are hoping that time-based will help achieve this goal as well as introduce some stability to the planning process. On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Nacho Solis wrote: > To clear up, I'm not against time-based

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

To clear up, I'm not against time-based releases, I just think that the goals that were stated are not intrinsic to time-based releases but the release process (whether it's time-based or not). The goal of "when will my code get into a release" and the goal of getting features faster in a release

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

To add to what Gwen said (which makes sense to me), here's a link to the Cassandra release model: http://www.planetcassandra.org/blog/cassandra-2-2-3-0-and-beyond/ It involves monthly releases, so more aggressive than what is being proposed, but they follow a tick tock model where a feature

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Thats good feedback, thanks. I don't think you were involved in the previous release, but we did try to follow the model you suggest. We announced few weeks before cutting branches and gave time for features and stabilization. This started a mad last-minute rush of semi-baked features that forced

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

I'm not convinced that time-based releases for this type of development are the right thing. Something like Ubuntu, where all components are moving targets needs to decide to freeze and release without having full coordination from the participants. There is no guarantee from Canonical that the

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Interesting, so you are suggesting that we drop Kafka's current versioning scheme (0.major.minor.patch)? I can see the reasoning for doing so now. However, I think I'd prefer to do that when we do the 1.x bump, which I think we should do once exactly-once lands. That way people only have to

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Right now, our major releases are really indicated in the second digit, not in the leading 0. So 0.10 is a major, 0.10.1 is a minor and 0.10.0.1 is a bug fix. Thanks, Jun On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gwen Shapira wrote: > Good question! > > My thoughts are... bugfix

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Good question! My thoughts are... bugfix releases will be done "as needed" based on community feedback Feature releases will be a minor release by default 0.11, 0.12 - unless: 1. We manage to break compatibility completely (we shouldn't) in which case we need to bump to 1.X 2. We do something

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

​How would time releases relate to versions? (Major, minor, API compatibility, etc).​ On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Guozhang Wang wrote: > I think we do not need to make the same guarantee as for "how old of your > Kafka version that you can upgrade to the latest in one

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

I think we do not need to make the same guarantee as for "how old of your Kafka version that you can upgrade to the latest in one shot" (just call it "upgrade maintenance" for short) and "how old of your Kafka version that you can enjoy backport critical bug fixes from the latest version" (call it

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Do we need to make a decision on this particular point? Could we gauge community demand (people tend to ask for fixes to be backported in JIRA) and decide then? If we make a good job of avoiding regressions, then it seems that each branch should really only need one or or a maximum of two bug fix

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Hi Joel, I think my suggestion was misunderstood. :) I suggested that we should support upgrades to the latest release for a reasonable period (and I used 2 years as an example). That doesn't mean supporting all of those branches for that period. It simply means that we maintain the code

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Yeah, I agree that maintaining 6 release branches is not really sustainable... Maybe 3 (current and 2 older) makes sense? On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 7:35 PM, Joel Koshy wrote: > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Joel Koshy wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 9,

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Good question, let me clarify my thinking: We were used to doing every year (or even at lower frequency). So the expectation was that users will just upgrade once a year and we wouldn't worry about backporting bugfixes to bugs that were over a year old. It seemed pretty reasonable. But if we are

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Joel Koshy wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Gwen Shapira wrote: > >> >> 4. Frequent releases mean we need to do bugfix releases for older >> branches. Right now we only do bugfix releases to latest release. >>

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Gwen Shapira wrote: > > 4. Frequent releases mean we need to do bugfix releases for older > branches. Right now we only do bugfix releases to latest release. > I'm a bit unclear on how the above is a side-effect of time-based releases. IIUC

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Hi Gwen, Comments inline. On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Gwen Shapira wrote: > I hear what you are saying (enterprises upgrade every 2-years > more-or-less). It seems reasonable - this basically means maintaining > 10 compatibility tests at any point in time. Indeed.

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

I hear what you are saying (enterprises upgrade every 2-years more-or-less). It seems reasonable - this basically means maintaining 10 compatibility tests at any point in time. We will need to be disciplined about maintaining those tests though - or it will get painful. Another thing, hurrying up

Re: [DISCUSS] Time-based releases for Apache Kafka

Hi Gwen, The proposal sounds good to me. With regards to the cadence, 3 releases a year (every 4 months as you said) sounds reasonable. One thing that I think is very important if we release more often is that users should be able to upgrade directly to the latest release for a reasonable period.