Re: [Conclusion] PartyRole usage in OFBiz

+1 Thanks Scott, Michael Am 20.11.21 um 02:47 schrieb Scott Gray: (Removing the private list since the discussion has no place there) I don't think this topic needs any further debate at this stage. Pierre objects to having the tickets closed, so we can leave them open since that is the

Re: [Conclusion] PartyRole usage in OFBiz

(Removing the private list since the discussion has no place there) I don't think this topic needs any further debate at this stage. Pierre objects to having the tickets closed, so we can leave them open since that is the easiest path and doesn't really come at any cost. We don't need to

Re: [Conclusion] PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hello Pierre, Inline, On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 06:48:40PM +0100, Pierre Smits wrote: > Hi Gil, All, > > My apologies, but I have to object to this and for the following reasoning: > Objections to pursuing improvements to the entity definition (for > PartyRole) and subsequent addressing front-end

Re: [Conclusion] PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi Gil, All, My apologies, but I have to object to this and for the following reasoning: Objections to pursuing improvements to the entity definition (for PartyRole) and subsequent addressing front-end issues (screens/forms, requests, services etc) for that and other entities impacted were

[Conclusion] PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hello, I will try to summarize the ongoing thread, to produce a conclusion or potential plan. Sorry in advance, if I forgot some points. About the improvement of adding lifespan in PartyRole entity, the "Won't do" seems to get the consensus, since this improvement do not follow logical purpose

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Le 16/11/2021 à 15:57, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Functionally (and technically per current design), you can not have the existence of a PartyRelationship record without the context of the Party and the RoleType record (a PartyRole record) for both to and from You are mistaken about "(a

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Le 15/11/2021 à 14:39, Pierre Smits a écrit : Hi Jacques, All, You asked earlier in this thread what I meant with 'erroneous record going into the PartyRole table'. My apologies for not addressing this earlier. What I meant with that is this: any record that goes into the PartyRole table (or

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi Pierre, You missed the relation with PartyRole that all have (but PartyRole of course). I believe this relation, or rather the PKs in it, is the crux of the problem, as David suggested long ago. The rest sounds good to me. We need to understand is why 15(!) other EntityNameRoles  don't

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi Jacques, All, I have taken your summation, Jacques, and poured it into a page in confluence (see [1]). Can we say that there is consensus regarding the definition? [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/EntityNameRole Met vriendelijke groet, Pierre Smits *Proud*

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Thanks Gil, I now get the ideas and I agree with them. Le 15/11/2021 à 15:37, gil a écrit : I will try to explain better With OFBiz you could create minimalistic application where you could define roles to a party to make them appear in one dropdown for a specific purpose. What I wanted to

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

I will try to explain better With OFBiz you could create minimalistic application where you could define roles to a party to make them appear in one dropdown for a specific purpose. What I wanted to show is that through pragmatism, basic usage of PartyRole can exist and be sufficient. But

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Pierre, Inline... Le 15/11/2021 à 10:55, Pierre Smits a écrit : Hi Jacques, All, Thank you for reminding us of ticket https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5827, another indicator of the greater issue at hand. Having reread it today, I must conclude now that this ticket raised in

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi Jacques, All, You asked earlier in this thread what I meant with 'erroneous record going into the PartyRole table'. My apologies for not addressing this earlier. What I meant with that is this: any record that goes into the PartyRole table (or any other table) that either intentionally or

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi Gil, Inline... Le 15/11/2021 à 10:36, gil a écrit : Hello, The current applications IMO are not meant to be used as it, but are presenting existing features. So there are many design flaws that exists in the current states of the application (leads to fk constraint error messages when

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi Jacques, All, Thank you for reminding us of ticket https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5827, another indicator of the greater issue at hand. Having reread it today, I must conclude now that this ticket raised in October 2014 deserves more explanation (especially regarding edge cases).

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hello, The current applications IMO are not meant to be used as it, but are presenting existing features. So there are many design flaws that exists in the current states of the application (leads to fk constraint error messages when deleting partyRole or creating partyRel). The example of

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Le 13/11/2021 à 19:26, Jacques Le Roux a écrit : Jacopo made an interesting comment at: https://s.apache.org/6s8lr that:    <   The other approach, that is the one advocated by Pierre Smits, is to interpret the PartyRole records as the roles the party can play.>> Hi Jacopo, All, Thinking

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Ha yes indeed, that was wrong as I said in my answer to Taher. I guess we crossed on wire, I did not write it in a single go. Le 14/11/2021 à 20:00, Pierre Smits a écrit : No. I linked to what you stated in [1] https://github.com/apache/ofbiz-framework/pull/293 Met vriendelijke groet,

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

No. I linked to what you stated in [1] https://github.com/apache/ofbiz-framework/pull/293 Met vriendelijke groet, Pierre Smits *Proud* *contributor** of* Apache OFBiz since 2008 (without privileges) Proud contributor to the ASF since 2006 *Apache Directory

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi Pierre, Inline... Le 13/11/2021 à 14:45, Pierre Smits a écrit : Thank you, Gil, for referencing various pre-cursors to this discussion. As some may experience a case of TLDR given the lenghty threads in your listing of references, I will try to clarify the issue within its context. ***

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi All, I'm tempted to dismiss the debate with a wave of hand as it was discussed, and somehow concluded before (only point 4 below* was not conclusive). Let's still analyse the different perspectives. Jacopo made an interesting comment at: https://s.apache.org/6s8lr that: <> Here is the

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi Taher, Inline... Le 12/11/2021 à 14:20, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit : Hello Everyone, From my understanding, fromDate and thruDate are primarily used for historical record purposes. This is useful only if a context exists such as in relation to an Order, WorkEffort, Request or something like

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

[1] https://github.com/apache/ofbiz-framework/pull/293 Met vriendelijke groet, Pierre Smits *Proud* *contributor** of* Apache OFBiz since 2008 (without privileges) Proud contributor to the ASF since 2006 *Apache Directory , PMC Member*

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Thank you, Gil, for referencing various pre-cursors to this discussion. As some may experience a case of TLDR given the lenghty threads in your listing of references, I will try to clarify the issue within its context. *** Does a user experience one or more issues with the 'remove' functionality

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Thank you Gil. In my opinion the *Role data model and the way OFBiz leverages it and the *Relationship data model are not ideal (some of the issues have been mentioned in the various threads referenced by Gil) but I don't feel that this specific enhancement is relevant enough to justify the risk

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hello Everyone, From my understanding, fromDate and thruDate are primarily used for historical record purposes. This is useful only if a context exists such as in relation to an Order, WorkEffort, Request or something like that. The PartyRole entity on the other hand has a different purpose

Re: PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hi Gil, thanks for the summary and links to previous discussions and issues. In my opinion, the conclusion is still valid and I agree to close the pending issues as "Won't do". Thanks and best regards, Michael Brohl ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de Am 12.11.21 um 10:07 schrieb Gil

PartyRole usage in OFBiz

Hello, I'm starting a new thread to discuss with the community about an Improvement that has been submitted by Pierre Smits [1] This topic has already been discussed in the past [2] and was conclude by a lazy consensus not to implement PartyRole lifespan into OFBiz. Recently, this improvement