New reporting tool for PMC, and a mail list overview.

[jan i]

On Monday, March 9, 2015, Louis Suárez-Potts > wrote:

>
> > On 08-03-2015, at 15:14, jan i  wrote:
> >
> > For those who do not follow some of the foundation mailing lists.
>
>
> Jan, what mail lists would you recommend interested members follow?


Members would normally know which lists to follow, but they are closed to
non-members.

Contributors/Committers/PMC can follow
d...@community.apache.org

which has quite a lot of interesting discussions on a general level.

There are however many special mailing lists, like e.g. one for apacheCON,
and following those or not depend on your interest.

rgds
jan i


>
> louis
>


-- 
Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.

Re: New reporting tool for PMC, and a mail list overview.

[Louis Suárez-Potts]

> On 08-03-2015, at 15:14, jan i  wrote:
> 
> For those who do not follow some of the foundation mailing lists.


Jan, what mail lists would you recommend interested members follow?

louis


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Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail

Re: Interoperability

[Guy Waterval]

Hi Marcus,

2015-03-08 16:33 GMT+01:00 Marcus :

[...]

>
> What do you mean with boring subject? Education? I hope it's not seen as
> boring because it is the key for everything in our life. ;-)


I mean that I'm discussing about extensions which is a little off topics
here. But I need a list of possible students projects to submit in June.
Development or maintaining of existing discontinued extensions could be a
possibility.

A+
-- 
gw


>

New reporting tool for PMC, and a mail list overview.

[jan i]

Hi

For those who do not follow some of the foundation mailing lists.

A new tool has arrived. It can be used by any PMC member:
https://reporter.apache.org/?openoffice

It contains information that makes it easier to write correct board
reports, but it also contains general information which I want to share
with the whole community.

Below is an automated statistic for our mailing lists (if you know where to
look you can find this information already)

Please remember statistic is numbers open for interpretation, I hope the
community will treat the information in the spirit it was delivered.

Please also remark, that the forum and wiki in not included, and those have
quite heavy traffic.

rgds
jan i.




Mailing lists *↑* Back to top


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Re: community communication versus private PMC communication, WAS: PMC FAQ update

[jan i]

On Sunday, March 8, 2015, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> On 08/03/2015 Simon Phipps wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>
>>> What about actually doing something?
>>>
>> That, sir, is insulting. If you want to propose a resolution,
>> do so, but please do not attempt to hand out jobs.
>>
>
> Volunteering to do something is much more appreciated than complaining. I
> felt free to remind you and Dave that offering your help is all you need to
> do if you want to manually maintain a list of people. I hope Dave did not
> feel insulted [oops, see below]. Apologies to Simon, but in spite of
> thinking about it for a while, I can't really find a gentler way to tell
> you that if you really want to see something done, offering your help is
> your best option. This is true for minor tasks like maintaining a list of
> moderators as well as for bigger, more significant tasks.
>
> Dave Barton wrote:
>
>> Is such a hostile and insulting attack necessary?
>>
>
> Well, if you felt insulted too, apologies to you too. It is quite clear
> from the context that I meant "doing something [about it]", i.e., about
> that specific web page, not in general. I can't see myself being hostile or
> insulting, but I cannot spend my whole day in explaining sentences.
>
>  I do not question that the ASF strives to be open and transparent, but
>> in the area of community building the AOO project is sadly lacking.
>> Comments, such as you have expressed here are, to say the least,
>> discouraging.
>>
>
> I think you got your answers and your points were taken. My comments were
> surely not meant to disturb anyone and I still don't see anything
> inappropriate there, but it can be that native speakers find problematic
> language that was not intentionally put there. I don't think this thread
> has anything useful to say any longer, and as I cannot write without being
> misinterpreted, I'll be happy to move over and remind that I welcome any
> constructive offer for help in any fields.


I agree with Andrea, helping is worth more than just writing words, and I
think it is better to try and read mails with a positive filter. Non-native
speakers will from time to time have wording that native speakers can
twist.but remember this is not a court house, it is a place with room
for everybody, so please think positive when reading mails.

rgds
jan i

>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

-- 
Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.

Re: community communication versus private PMC communication, WAS: PMC FAQ update

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 08/03/2015 Simon Phipps wrote:

On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

What about actually doing something?

That, sir, is insulting. If you want to propose a resolution,
do so, but please do not attempt to hand out jobs.


Volunteering to do something is much more appreciated than complaining. 
I felt free to remind you and Dave that offering your help is all you 
need to do if you want to manually maintain a list of people. I hope 
Dave did not feel insulted [oops, see below]. Apologies to Simon, but in 
spite of thinking about it for a while, I can't really find a gentler 
way to tell you that if you really want to see something done, offering 
your help is your best option. This is true for minor tasks like 
maintaining a list of moderators as well as for bigger, more significant 
tasks.


Dave Barton wrote:

Is such a hostile and insulting attack necessary?


Well, if you felt insulted too, apologies to you too. It is quite clear 
from the context that I meant "doing something [about it]", i.e., about 
that specific web page, not in general. I can't see myself being hostile 
or insulting, but I cannot spend my whole day in explaining sentences.



I do not question that the ASF strives to be open and transparent, but
in the area of community building the AOO project is sadly lacking.
Comments, such as you have expressed here are, to say the least,
discouraging.


I think you got your answers and your points were taken. My comments 
were surely not meant to disturb anyone and I still don't see anything 
inappropriate there, but it can be that native speakers find problematic 
language that was not intentionally put there. I don't think this thread 
has anything useful to say any longer, and as I cannot write without 
being misinterpreted, I'll be happy to move over and remind that I 
welcome any constructive offer for help in any fields.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: community communication versus private PMC communication, WAS: PMC FAQ update

[Dave Barton]

Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 07/03/2015 Dave Barton wrote:
>> Simon Phipps wrote:
>>> when one does not have access to the privileged
>>> conversations of the PMC, actions that use those conversations as
>>> justification appear hostile, as do dismissive PMC member reactions
> 
> Well, if it is true (and it is true) that the private list is visible to
> 400+ people (more than this list's subscribers) and that, while mistakes
> are surely possible and surely have happened, the private list is not
> being abused and discussions that do not belong there are often moved to
> the dev list with full context, then I feel it's important to point it
> out. You are suggesting a usage pattern of the private list that is far
> beyond reality.
> 
> Apache OpenOffice is a model of transparency compared to other, even
> open source, projects. The importance some people give to private
> conversations is really, really exaggerated. But if we continue
> discussing this we fall easily in a "conspiracy theory" model, so I
> prefer that we get more concrete. On my behalf, be reassured that when I
> see a private conversation that ought to be public I will point it out.

I have not and as far as I can tell neither has Simon, claimed a general
lack of transparency within the project and I totally reject your
suggestion that I have made any "exaggerated" claims or I am touting
some kind of "conspiracy theory". However, there was a failure of
communication in the original "PMC FAQ update" thread.

>> +100%
>> Thank you Simon.
> 
> What about actually doing something?

Is such a hostile and insulting attack necessary?

When I first posted to the original thread I had already collected the
information I thought was being asked for and was ready to  "ACTUALLY DO
SOMETHING" by updating the page, if that was acceptable.

> You Simon and Dave combined already
> have all privileges needed to keep the page with moderators' names
> updated if you believe it's really important for you. If you two pledge
> to keep it updated, I, for one, will see my primary reason for removing
> names (i.e., they are blatantly outdated) addressed. If you are willing
> to help, we can surely fix details.

This is no longer about the trivial issue of keeping moderator's names
on a page, or if Simon and I think it is important. The decision on that
matter has been taken and as far as I am concerned it is now closed.

The issue here is that in the original thread both Simon and I asked
totally innocent, non-controversial questions and received answers which
ranged from, the information is already there (if you know where to find
it), to being accused of being on some kind of name publishing ego trip.

I do not question that the ASF strives to be open and transparent, but
in the area of community building the AOO project is sadly lacking.
Comments, such as you have expressed here are, to say the least,
discouraging.

> Regards,
>   Andrea.



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Re: [PROPOSAL] move repo to Git.

[Marcus]

Am 03/08/2015 04:52 PM, schrieb jan i:

On Sunday, March 8, 2015, Marcus  wrote:


Am 03/08/2015 02:08 AM, schrieb wolf.hal...@gmail.com:


Why not move web development as well as the code development into Git?
+1 any Git.



the staging machine is relying on SVN. So, moving to Git would make
changes on the website impossible - until someone rewrites the code that is
doing the staging and publishing, so that it is (maybe additionally) also
working with Git.

Thats what I heard. It doesn't need to be the full truth but sounds logic
for me. ;-)


I think it was said before, we talk about the code not the website. Due to
CMS we cannot currently move the web site so that will remain untouched in
SVN.


sure, I know that. But maybe Wolf had missed this. That's the reason why 
I wrote it again. ;-)


Marcus




  On Mar 1, 2015, at 6:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton

wrote:

I'm going to add my +1 to this proposal.

It occurred to me, when looking into the "old OOo SVN dumps" that Rob
has, that there may be many more downstream users that are on Git and that
our being on Git would facilitate accepting appropriately-offered pull
requests to the AOO repository.  It seems this is a lower-friction way of
sending fixes upstream than going the patch creation and submission route.

- Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 04:01
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] move repo to Git.

[ ... ]

If possible to get a git repo only it make sense. That means we don't
have to move any webpage related stuff into git. Just the pure code is
relevant her.

+1 for a git repo

Juergen


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Re: [PROPOSAL] move repo to Git.

[jan i]

On Sunday, March 8, 2015, Marcus  wrote:

> Am 03/08/2015 02:08 AM, schrieb wolf.hal...@gmail.com:
>
>> Why not move web development as well as the code development into Git?
>> +1 any Git.
>>
>
> the staging machine is relying on SVN. So, moving to Git would make
> changes on the website impossible - until someone rewrites the code that is
> doing the staging and publishing, so that it is (maybe additionally) also
> working with Git.
>
> Thats what I heard. It doesn't need to be the full truth but sounds logic
> for me. ;-)

I think it was said before, we talk about the code not the website. Due to
CMS we cannot currently move the web site so that will remain untouched in
SVN.

currently (as far as I can see) the web site is not part of the RO GIT
mirror.

rgds
jan i



>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>  On Mar 1, 2015, at 6:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm going to add my +1 to this proposal.
>>>
>>> It occurred to me, when looking into the "old OOo SVN dumps" that Rob
>>> has, that there may be many more downstream users that are on Git and that
>>> our being on Git would facilitate accepting appropriately-offered pull
>>> requests to the AOO repository.  It seems this is a lower-friction way of
>>> sending fixes upstream than going the patch creation and submission route.
>>>
>>> - Dennis
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 04:01
>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] move repo to Git.
>>>
>>> [ ... ]
>>>
>>> If possible to get a git repo only it make sense. That means we don't
>>> have to move any webpage related stuff into git. Just the pure code is
>>> relevant her.
>>>
>>> +1 for a git repo
>>>
>>> Juergen
>>>
>>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

-- 
Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.

Re: Interoperability

[Marcus]

Am 03/08/2015 11:13 AM, schrieb Guy Waterval:

Hi Marcus,
Hi all,

2015-03-06 18:45 GMT+01:00 Marcus:

[...]




Maybe it's a bit difficult to still find an interesting topic because of
the hugh amount of extensions. But it is indeed a great start into
OpenOffice development.




  You are right but there are perhaps also the possibility to restart the
work on an abandoned extension (if the original work was under a free
licence) or to create a new one based on an already existing but
discontinued software.
For examples :
- OpenCards is a flashcards program using Impress. Its developement as an
extension for OpenOffice is abandoned. Only a standalone version is
maintained.


good idea to try to continue software where is makes sense - and the 
author allows it.



- The Guide is an abandoned standalone outliner software under Alv2.0
licence. Perhaps an opportunity to convert it as an OpenOffice extension. I
don't think there is an existing outliner extension.
http://theguide.sourceforge.net/

Perhaps such projects have a suitable size for a student project.

I know that I'm a little boring with this kind of subject, but I'm standing
out before an Engineering school. Some students have unlocked the door and
given me "the way" to the key person for this kind of work. But It's
important to come with a clear proposition to have a chance to see it
integrated to the list of the students projects.


What do you mean with boring subject? Education? I hope it's not seen as 
boring because it is the key for everything in our life. ;-)


Marcus


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Re: [PROPOSAL] move repo to Git.

[Marcus]

Am 03/08/2015 02:08 AM, schrieb wolf.hal...@gmail.com:

Why not move web development as well as the code development into Git?
+1 any Git.


the staging machine is relying on SVN. So, moving to Git would make 
changes on the website impossible - until someone rewrites the code that 
is doing the staging and publishing, so that it is (maybe additionally) 
also working with Git.


Thats what I heard. It doesn't need to be the full truth but sounds 
logic for me. ;-)


Marcus




On Mar 1, 2015, at 6:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:

I'm going to add my +1 to this proposal.

It occurred to me, when looking into the "old OOo SVN dumps" that Rob has, that 
there may be many more downstream users that are on Git and that our being on Git would 
facilitate accepting appropriately-offered pull requests to the AOO repository.  It seems 
this is a lower-friction way of sending fixes upstream than going the patch creation and 
submission route.

- Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 04:01
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] move repo to Git.

[ ... ]

If possible to get a git repo only it make sense. That means we don't
have to move any webpage related stuff into git. Just the pure code is
relevant her.

+1 for a git repo

Juergen


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: community communication versus private PMC communication, WAS: PMC FAQ update

[Simon Phipps]

On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Andrea Pescetti 
wrote:

> You are suggesting a usage pattern of the private list that is far beyond
> reality.
>

I am not. I am pointing out there is no way for me to know, and that the
strong reactions to Dave's original (modest & reasonable) question as well
as other follow-ups do nothing to build trust. I believe others here have
already taken that point and I suggest letting it rest now.


> What about actually doing something?
>

That, sir, is insulting.

If you want to propose a resolution, do so, but please do not attempt to
hand out jobs. If the consensus on the list devises an alternative to Kay's
original proposal and work, I may consider volunteering and requesting the
necessary access (which I probably don't have).

S.

Re: community communication versus private PMC communication, WAS: PMC FAQ update

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 07/03/2015 Dave Barton wrote:

Simon Phipps wrote:

when one does not have access to the privileged
conversations of the PMC, actions that use those conversations as
justification appear hostile, as do dismissive PMC member reactions


Well, if it is true (and it is true) that the private list is visible to 
400+ people (more than this list's subscribers) and that, while mistakes 
are surely possible and surely have happened, the private list is not 
being abused and discussions that do not belong there are often moved to 
the dev list with full context, then I feel it's important to point it 
out. You are suggesting a usage pattern of the private list that is far 
beyond reality.


Apache OpenOffice is a model of transparency compared to other, even 
open source, projects. The importance some people give to private 
conversations is really, really exaggerated. But if we continue 
discussing this we fall easily in a "conspiracy theory" model, so I 
prefer that we get more concrete. On my behalf, be reassured that when I 
see a private conversation that ought to be public I will point it out.



+100%
Thank you Simon.


What about actually doing something? You Simon and Dave combined already 
have all privileges needed to keep the page with moderators' names 
updated if you believe it's really important for you. If you two pledge 
to keep it updated, I, for one, will see my primary reason for removing 
names (i.e., they are blatantly outdated) addressed. If you are willing 
to help, we can surely fix details.


Regards,
  Andrea.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Interoperability

[Guy Waterval]

Hi Marcus,
Hi all,

2015-03-06 18:45 GMT+01:00 Marcus :

[...]

>
>> Maybe it's a bit difficult to still find an interesting topic because of
>> the hugh amount of extensions. But it is indeed a great start into
>> OpenOffice development.
>>
>
 You are right but there are perhaps also the possibility to restart the
work on an abandoned extension (if the original work was under a free
licence) or to create a new one based on an already existing but
discontinued software.
For examples :
- OpenCards is a flashcards program using Impress. Its developement as an
extension for OpenOffice is abandoned. Only a standalone version is
maintained.
- The Guide is an abandoned standalone outliner software under Alv2.0
licence. Perhaps an opportunity to convert it as an OpenOffice extension. I
don't think there is an existing outliner extension.
http://theguide.sourceforge.net/

Perhaps such projects have a suitable size for a student project.

I know that I'm a little boring with this kind of subject, but I'm standing
out before an Engineering school. Some students have unlocked the door and
given me "the way" to the key person for this kind of work. But It's
important to come with a clear proposition to have a chance to see it
integrated to the list of the students projects.

Regards
-- 
gw