Re: QUESTIONS RE: Maintenance of AOO Wiki and Forum

2015-08-18 Thread jan i
On 17 August 2015 at 23:23, Dennis E. Hamilton orc...@apache.org wrote:

 Thanks Tony, this reminds me of some questions that would help us
 understand what is involved.  These questions are anyone knowledgable of
 the current arrangements:

 I see four levels of support to wikis and forums:

  1. User Account and Content Administration
 I believe this is handed.  Does anyone believe it is not?

this is done by the wiki administrators.


  2. Administering the Running Service
 That is, a server administrator for the service (not necessarily the
 host)
 Is this done?  Do we need a replacement or an expansion here?  What
 are prerequisite qualifications for being able to do this.

I do that at the moment. I would strongly suggest at least an expansion.



  3. Administrating the Server that hosts the Service
 I assume this is where one deals with Ubuntu upgrades and such,
 whether the server is real or virtual.
 Is this provided by the project?  Do we need a replacement/expansion
 here from within the project?  Again, what are prerequisite qualifications?

Yes it is provided by the project, and actually it is extremely hard to
divided 2 and 3, they are interconnected.

I strongly suggest at least an expansion, also because the project might
have wishes which I would not see, are be able to facilitate (e.g. change
the login
configuration).

Sysadm experience brings you a long way, otherwise it is not hard to read
up on Mediawiki, mysql, ATS and Ubuntu.




  4. I assume hardware IT support is not the business of the project, and
 changing boxes is a different deal.  Yes?

It is vm´s and not physical boxes.

At the moment one of the biggest problems is how to recreate them if they
break. Infra nowadays use Puppet for that purpose. The Vms are defined in
puppet2 but
not puppet3.



 I suspect this is known.  I don't know if the necessary information is
 anywhere in project materials (haven't looked).

It is in the mail archives and on the vms themself.


 This is an area of ignorance for me.  I am not raising my hand.  I just
 want to ensure that the necessary requirements are understood and we know
 what is and is not adequately covered.

  - Dennis

 -Original Message-
 From: Tony Stevenson [mailto:t...@pc-tony.com]
 Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 12:54
 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
 Subject: Re: Maintenance of AOO Wiki and Forum



 On Fri, 14 Aug 2015, at 01:31 PM, jan i wrote:
  Hi.
 
  The AOO Forum vm could do with an upgrade to Ubuntu 14.04 and be defined
  in
  the new puppet structure. Defining it in the new puppet structure has the
  advantage that Infra can roll a new vm in case of problems, and thereby
  reducing downtime.
 
  The AOO Wiki vm is in strong need of a reconfiguration and update (Ubuntu
  14.04 see above). Currently there is a ATS running on the same vm in
  front
  of the mediawiki (django) application. The ATS veersion is no longer
  supported by the traffic server project. Running it on a separate vm (or
  even as the HTPPS proxy) has a lot of merit, but it has not been done.
 
  As I am reducing my engagement in the project, this might be a good time
  for a new maintainer to step up. The actual maintenance is  about 1 hour
  pr
  month.

 Can I take this opportunity to remind the community that if this service
 fails to be maintained appropriately it will be turned off, or made
 unavailable by Infra until such time it is brought up to date and
 managed.

Tony@ I assume you by maintained really think of security, Infra do not
care which
version of e.g. mediawiki the project uses, as long as there are no known
security risks.


 AIUI this was the agreement that we had with the project when it was
 handed over to enable you to manage yourselves.

I can confirm, that is what I have been told when I started, and how I
handled it.

rgds
jan i.



 Many thanks,

 --
 Tony



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Re: QUESTIONS RE: Maintenance of AOO Wiki and Forum

2015-08-17 Thread Tony Stevenson
On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 02:23:48PM -0700, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
 Thanks Tony, this reminds me of some questions that would help us understand 
 what is involved.  These questions are anyone knowledgable of the current 
 arrangements:
 
 I see four levels of support to wikis and forums:
 
  1. User Account and Content Administration
 I believe this is handed.  Does anyone believe it is not?


How do you mean handled? This function is managed within the two
products by those who manage them already. In other words this is fully
devolved to the AOO PMC to determine how this should be managed.


  2. Administering the Running Service
 That is, a server administrator for the service (not necessarily the host)
 Is this done?  Do we need a replacement or an expansion here?  What are 
 prerequisite qualifications for being able to do this.


Again this is down to the PMC to determine how to best do this.  Right
now Infra provide a number of VMs for AOO to run the service on. This is
mostly due to significant historical inertia when AOO first joined the
ASF, but also because it is what the PMC wanted to make their lives
easier. 

If you want these to be come more managed by Infra then a significant
number of changes would need to be made to make this happen.  Not least
of which is moving the system into Puppet. This is a non-trivial piece
of work which I'd estimate would take a member of paid staff at least
4-6 weeks to complete (minimum). 


 
  3. Administrating the Server that hosts the Service
 I assume this is where one deals with Ubuntu upgrades and such, whether 
 the server is real or virtual.
 Is this provided by the project?  Do we need a replacement/expansion here 
 from within the project?  Again, what are prerequisite qualifications?


Again, due to historical inertia and what I suspect is fear of letting
go in the past (perhaps even now in the present) this element was
handled at the PMC's discretion - with the caveat that Infra would force
an update where required (say SSL vulnerability etc), or if the PMC did
not do it itself the service would be shutdown and the instance shutdown
until such time that the problem had been resolved. 

Right now, I do not believe that these instances are being properly
maintained, and are in need of significant TLC to make them tick along
nicely once more. However, owing to the obscenely difficlut (and in my
opinion frankly ridiculous) setup of the services this is near
impossible to do well. 


  4. I assume hardware IT support is not the business of the project, and 
 changing boxes is a different deal.  Yes?
 

Correct, the PMC is provided with a number of virtual machines (not
native hardware, just to avoid any confusion).  If you need to move (and
frankly I would push for this very hard) we would need to stand up the
new instances for you, based on an open discussion of your requirements.

Infra are responsible for making sure that the instances are up, and
that the hardware they run is available. 



 I suspect this is known.  I don't know if the necessary information is 
 anywhere in project materials (haven't looked). 
 
 This is an area of ignorance for me.  


I hope I have helped clarify somewhat. 


--

Many thanks,
Tony


pgpEMbLdOugGK.pgp
Description: PGP signature


RE: QUESTIONS RE: Maintenance of AOO Wiki and Forum

2015-08-17 Thread Dennis E. Hamilton
Oh, sorry Tony.  I was hoping other on AOO could supply what they know of this 
situation.
 
I was clear that the project has responsibilities for (1) and thank you for 
clarifying (2-3) which appear to be in dangerous shape.  Thanks for clarifying 
that these are AOO responsibilities in particular.

I would like to know who are providing effort in categories (2-3) at the moment 
and also their view of the situation and the required capabilities.

I suppose any retiring incumbents can also specify what the qualifications for 
a successor are and then we can see who is equipped to perform such work.

 - - - - - - -

It seems the next question is to understand the desired state we want for the 
MediaWiki (that's the one?) and the Forums in terms of sustainable operational 
support and what is a roadmap that can get us there.

We also need to look at the most urgent steps and the least that can provide 
relief.

Is that what you see needed at this rather high level?

Finally, assuming it could be done, is there any benefit to Puppet for 
non-Infrastructure usage or are we talking about a regime that is specific to 
operation under ASF Infra?

 - - - - - - -

It should be obvious that I am an Infrastructure dufus.  

Yet I think the AOO community needs to have a clear picture and also awareness 
of the gravity of the support that is required to be provided by the project.

 - Dennis



-Original Message-
From: Tony Stevenson [mailto:t...@pc-tony.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 14:42
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; orc...@apache.org
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS RE: Maintenance of AOO Wiki and Forum

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 02:23:48PM -0700, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
 Thanks Tony, this reminds me of some questions that would help us understand 
 what is involved.  These questions are anyone knowledgable of the current 
 arrangements:
 
 I see four levels of support to wikis and forums:
 
  1. User Account and Content Administration
 I believe this is handed.  Does anyone believe it is not?


How do you mean handled? This function is managed within the two
products by those who manage them already. In other words this is fully
devolved to the AOO PMC to determine how this should be managed.


  2. Administering the Running Service
 That is, a server administrator for the service (not necessarily the host)
 Is this done?  Do we need a replacement or an expansion here?  What are 
 prerequisite qualifications for being able to do this.


Again this is down to the PMC to determine how to best do this.  Right
now Infra provide a number of VMs for AOO to run the service on. This is
mostly due to significant historical inertia when AOO first joined the
ASF, but also because it is what the PMC wanted to make their lives
easier. 

If you want these to be come more managed by Infra then a significant
number of changes would need to be made to make this happen.  Not least
of which is moving the system into Puppet. This is a non-trivial piece
of work which I'd estimate would take a member of paid staff at least
4-6 weeks to complete (minimum). 


 
  3. Administrating the Server that hosts the Service
 I assume this is where one deals with Ubuntu upgrades and such, whether 
 the server is real or virtual.
 Is this provided by the project?  Do we need a replacement/expansion here 
 from within the project?  Again, what are prerequisite qualifications?


Again, due to historical inertia and what I suspect is fear of letting
go in the past (perhaps even now in the present) this element was
handled at the PMC's discretion - with the caveat that Infra would force
an update where required (say SSL vulnerability etc), or if the PMC did
not do it itself the service would be shutdown and the instance shutdown
until such time that the problem had been resolved. 

Right now, I do not believe that these instances are being properly
maintained, and are in need of significant TLC to make them tick along
nicely once more. However, owing to the obscenely difficlut (and in my
opinion frankly ridiculous) setup of the services this is near
impossible to do well. 


  4. I assume hardware IT support is not the business of the project, and 
 changing boxes is a different deal.  Yes?
 

Correct, the PMC is provided with a number of virtual machines (not
native hardware, just to avoid any confusion).  If you need to move (and
frankly I would push for this very hard) we would need to stand up the
new instances for you, based on an open discussion of your requirements.

Infra are responsible for making sure that the instances are up, and
that the hardware they run is available. 



 I suspect this is known.  I don't know if the necessary information is 
 anywhere in project materials (haven't looked). 
 
 This is an area of ignorance for me.  


I hope I have helped clarify somewhat. 


--

Many thanks,
Tony


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To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr

QUESTIONS RE: Maintenance of AOO Wiki and Forum

2015-08-17 Thread Dennis E. Hamilton
Thanks Tony, this reminds me of some questions that would help us understand 
what is involved.  These questions are anyone knowledgable of the current 
arrangements:

I see four levels of support to wikis and forums:

 1. User Account and Content Administration
I believe this is handed.  Does anyone believe it is not?

 2. Administering the Running Service
That is, a server administrator for the service (not necessarily the host)
Is this done?  Do we need a replacement or an expansion here?  What are 
prerequisite qualifications for being able to do this.

 3. Administrating the Server that hosts the Service
I assume this is where one deals with Ubuntu upgrades and such, whether the 
server is real or virtual.
Is this provided by the project?  Do we need a replacement/expansion here 
from within the project?  Again, what are prerequisite qualifications?

 4. I assume hardware IT support is not the business of the project, and 
changing boxes is a different deal.  Yes?

I suspect this is known.  I don't know if the necessary information is anywhere 
in project materials (haven't looked). 

This is an area of ignorance for me.  I am not raising my hand.  I just want to 
ensure that the necessary requirements are understood and we know what is and 
is not adequately covered. 

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Tony Stevenson [mailto:t...@pc-tony.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 12:54
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Maintenance of AOO Wiki and Forum



On Fri, 14 Aug 2015, at 01:31 PM, jan i wrote:
 Hi.
 
 The AOO Forum vm could do with an upgrade to Ubuntu 14.04 and be defined
 in
 the new puppet structure. Defining it in the new puppet structure has the
 advantage that Infra can roll a new vm in case of problems, and thereby
 reducing downtime.
 
 The AOO Wiki vm is in strong need of a reconfiguration and update (Ubuntu
 14.04 see above). Currently there is a ATS running on the same vm in
 front
 of the mediawiki (django) application. The ATS veersion is no longer
 supported by the traffic server project. Running it on a separate vm (or
 even as the HTPPS proxy) has a lot of merit, but it has not been done.
 
 As I am reducing my engagement in the project, this might be a good time
 for a new maintainer to step up. The actual maintenance is  about 1 hour
 pr
 month.

Can I take this opportunity to remind the community that if this service
fails to be maintained appropriately it will be turned off, or made
unavailable by Infra until such time it is brought up to date and
managed. 

AIUI this was the agreement that we had with the project when it was
handed over to enable you to manage yourselves. 


Many thanks,

--
Tony



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To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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