Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
> I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier. imho: we can import some good ideas from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/TagTransform schema .. *"The tag transform Osmosis plugin allows arbitrary tag transforms to be applied to OSM data as a preprocessing step before using other tools. This allows other tools to concentrate on doing what ever they do, without having to handle numerous different tagging schemes and error corrections."* imho: regexp is useful. probably the "lua" is good glue/meta language - for writing "business rules". some examples: Valhalla (routing) admin.lua ( https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/admin.lua ) Valhalla (routing) graph.lua ( https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/blob/master/lua/graph.lua ) osm2gsql - openstreetmap-carto.lua https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/openstreetmap-carto.lua Regards, Imre Sören Reinecke via dev ezt írta (időpont: 2019. dec. 5., Cs, 15:59): > Hey all, > > I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to > make life of data customers easier. Different tagging schemes have emerged > since the existence of OpenStreetMap, same are existing in parallel and a > newer one deprecated an old one. Data customers without knowing the OSM > community much get lost. This project aims to help developers who want to > take advantage of the OpenStreetMap great database which is by the way a > brilliant project. This project can also help to make tagging in OSM more > orthogonal and more hassle free. > > I saw conflicting interests between OSM community, OSM developers like the > iD developers and data customers. A renderer might need data in another way > as the community contributes. The community might need another tagging > scheme than a renderer. I thought how we can resolve this, how we can get > all sites on "one table" and that is the idea I had come up with: > > A more readable version can be found here: > https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md > and the principles can be found at > https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.md > > > -- > > Example 1: They want to have the phone number of a POI. There are some > problems with this: > > 1. They need to know both contact:phone and phone to get them all. > 2. They need to support them both. > 3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. > This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI2. > > Example 2: They want to know how many POI's have changing tables (general: > facilities for changing a nappy of a baby). There are some problems with > this too: > > 1. They need to know both changing_table and the deprecated diaper to > get them all. > 2. They need to support them both. Difficult because they're highly > different tagging schemes. > 3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. > This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI5. > > Example 3: They want to develop a mapping tool and want to correct wrong > typed in tags. There are some problems with that: > > 1. They need to know all possible tagging schemes existing for one > purpose (e.g. mapping facilities for changing the nappy of a baby). > 2. They need to know the right/approved/more logical scheme. > 3. They need to know how to convert: > > diaper=yes > diaper:female=yes > > becomes after the transformation: > > changing_table=yes > changing_table:location=female_toilet > > > -- > > Basically it bridges the OSM community and developers together, it might > even resolve the conflict between iD developers and the community. > > The project bridges different worlds and is therefore a bridge. As bridge > this project should not just connect different worlds together and by > ensuring peace between those but also support exchange between those to > develop a social economy of "send and receive" This project should support > the "come together" of (OSM) developers and mappers. > > > *I want to hear your opinions on this and also feel not to shame to ask > questions. My answers will be part of the clarification of the project > "tagtransform for OSM".* > > Cheers > > Sören Reinecke alias ValorNaram > > ___ > dev mailing list > dev@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev > ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
> what issue was it that you hit that led you to conclude that (initially) tag homogenisation for specific tags was a goal worth pursuing, followed by the initiative to create a "master list of "tag X means the same as Y"? The situation of that I needed to support both `diaper` and `changing_table` led me to that idea.> That's a shame.Oh sorry, that's not currently my goal but it can be to build an universal specification to convert between different formattings. See also my latest answer of the quote I was answering to, where I draw the options which are available to me. Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Andy Townsend To: Sören Reinecke ,dev@openstreetmap.orgCC: On 05/12/2019 19:24, Sören Reinecke wrote:>> > Are you planning to make something that can be integrated directly > into that (or mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).?>> No, this is not my aim.>That's a shame. It looks like you're trying to solve the part of the problem that isn't really much of a problem (see Richard's most recent email on the tagging list, amongst others) but not addressing the bit that actually doesn't have a good solution right now.Turning the question round slightly, while still trying to keep it relevant for the dev list - what issue was it that you hit that led you to conclude that (initially) tag homogenisation for specific tags was a goal worth pursuing, followed by the initiative to create a "master list of "tag X means the same as Y"?Best Regards,Andy___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
On 05/12/2019 19:24, Sören Reinecke wrote: > Are you planning to make something that can be integrated directly into that (or mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).? No, this is not my aim. That's a shame. It looks like you're trying to solve the part of the problem that isn't really much of a problem (see Richard's most recent email on the tagging list, amongst others) but not addressing the bit that actually doesn't have a good solution right now. Turning the question round slightly, while still trying to keep it relevant for the dev list - what issue was it that you hit that led you to conclude that (initially) tag homogenisation for specific tags was a goal worth pursuing, followed by the initiative to create a "master list of "tag X means the same as Y"? Best Regards, Andy ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
> At your github repository it looks like you're planning to store an explicit list of "tag X means the same as tag Y". Is this going to be stored project by project so that you can say "project A thinks that tag X means the same as tag Y but project B does not"?Yes but I didn't resolve the question about how to find out which JSON file to take. This is currently a problem I have to solve. But the idea is that to influence tagging and to preprocess data for customers and to differentiate between groups.> Are you planning to make something that can be integrated directly into that (or mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).?No, this is not my aim.> What would be really useful, actually, would be a way to re-use the same tag transformation definition used in one place in others as well*.Is possible by using so-called reference ids.> I might render a whole series of shops exactly the same but think that guest houses and bed-and-breakfast places ought to have different representations, but someone else might do the opposite.The specification allows the use of an own specification JSON.> I'd actually like to be able to do the same generic transformations from mkgmap as well.With scripts it is possible to convert to my specification and than from my specification to others. But this needs knowleadge in how the other formattings are interpreted.> The technicalities of how to invoke a tag transformation between one set of values and another in, say, osm2pgsql, mkgmap or osmand.This is what is good for data developers. I want also to simplify mapping by making it possible to handle short version of keys: `phone` --> `contact:phone`. Building a bridge that almost all sites find useful is my goal.> So that's the big question really - what are you planning to do to integrate what you're doing here with the existing toolchains?I wasn't aware of such bunch of tools that might be hard to maintain. To maintain compactibility to them we can do convertions. We can of course first start with writing compactibility layers to translate between those. The easiest way to do that would be to develop an universal specification (using and extending the specification I wrote)'CheersSören Reinecke Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds togetherFrom: Andy Townsend To: dev@openstreetmap.orgCC: On 05/12/2019 14:50, Sören Reinecke via dev wrote: I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier. Firstly, thanks for trying to make the lives of people trying to do things with OSM data easier! Obviously there are two bits to this: The technicalities of how to invoke a tag transformation between one set of values and another in, say, osm2pgsql, mkgmap or osmand. The actual set of values to be used in a particular case. I can think of lots of examples of (1) - among the most well-known is the lua interface from osm2pgsql. Are you planning to make something that can be integrated directly into that (or mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).? What a particular data consumer would use for (2) will likely vary case by case. For example, I might render a whole series of shops exactly the same but think that guest houses and bed-and-breakfast places ought to have different representations, but someone else might do the opposite. At your github repository it looks like you're planning to store an explicit list of "tag X means the same as tag Y". Is this going to be stored project by project so that you can say "project A thinks that tag X means the same as tag Y but project B does not"? I want to hear your opinions on this and also feel not to shame to ask questions. My answers will be part of the clarification of the project "tagtransform for OSM". What would be really useful, actually, would be a way to re-use the same tag transformation definition used in one place in others as well*. For example over at https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua#L49 I have a lump of lua code that does generic tag transforms. It's called from a couple of other places in there which are called in turn from osm2pgsql - the documentation for that is at https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/blob/master/docs/lua.md . I'd actually like to be able to do the same generic transformations from mkgmap as well. Currently mkgmap's transformations are handled by files such as
Re: [OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
On 05/12/2019 14:50, Sören Reinecke via dev wrote: I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier. Firstly, thanks for trying to make the lives of people trying to do things with OSM data easier! Obviously there are two bits to this: 1. The technicalities of how to invoke a tag transformation between one set of values and another in, say, osm2pgsql, mkgmap or osmand. 2. The actual set of values to be used in a particular case. I can think of lots of examples of (1) - among the most well-known is the lua interface from osm2pgsql. Are you planning to make something that can be integrated directly into that (or mkgmap, or osmand etc.**).? What a particular data consumer would use for (2) will likely vary case by case. For example, I might render a whole series of shops exactly the same but think that guest houses and bed-and-breakfast places ought to have different representations, but someone else might do the opposite. At your github repository it looks like you're planning to store an explicit list of "tag X means the same as tag Y". Is this going to be stored project by project so that you can say "project A thinks that tag X means the same as tag Y but project B does not"? *I want to hear your opinions on this and also feel not to shame to ask questions. My answers will be part of the clarification of the project "tagtransform for OSM".* What would be really useful, actually, would be a way to re-use the same tag transformation definition used in one place in others as well*. For example over at https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua#L49 I have a lump of lua code that does generic tag transforms. It's called from a couple of other places in there which are called in turn from osm2pgsql - the documentation for that is at https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/blob/master/docs/lua.md . I'd actually like to be able to do the same generic transformations from mkgmap as well. Currently mkgmap's transformations are handled by files such as http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=mkgmap=%2Ftrunk%2Fresources%2Fstyles%2Fdefault%2Fpoints=4384 - in there you can see OSM tags and values and the Garmin symbols that they get turned into. What this would technically need is a way of calling lua from java (stackoverflow suggests that various options exist, but "some assembly would be needed") and then document the calling interface so that it'd be easy for people to modify their existing lua tag transforms to work from there too. Osmand's a bit more complicated - the equivalent tag transform definition is https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd-resources/blob/master/obf_creation/rendering_types.xml (see http://osmand.net/help/docs/Custom_Rendering_How-To.htm for a bit more information), but that file is a bit of a monster and seems to handle several jobs at the same time. Another option would be call out to a lua tag transform before throwing the result at "rendering_types.xml" and the display style "default.render.xml". So that's the big question really - what are you planning to do to integrate what you're doing here with the existing toolchains? Best Regards, Andy * not in any way an original idea by me. ** three example just off the top of my head. Other data consumers will be able to think of others in other toolchains. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
[OSM-dev] tagtransform for OSM - A effort make tagging and using OSM data easier; bridging different worlds together
Hey all, I currently write a specification for tranforming tags in OpenStreetMap to make life of data customers easier. Different tagging schemes have emerged since the existence of OpenStreetMap, same are existing in parallel and a newer one deprecated an old one. Data customers without knowing the OSM community much get lost. This project aims to help developers who want to take advantage of the OpenStreetMap great database which is by the way a brilliant project. This project can also help to make tagging in OSM more orthogonal and more hassle free. I saw conflicting interests between OSM community, OSM developers like the iD developers and data customers. A renderer might need data in another way as the community contributes. The community might need another tagging scheme than a renderer. I thought how we can resolve this, how we can get all sites on "one table" and that is the idea I had come up with: A more readable version can be found here: https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/README.md and the principles can be found at https://github.com/ValorNaram/transformation-table-osmtags/blob/master/principles.md Example 1: They want to have the phone number of a POI. There are some problems with this: 1. They need to know both contact:phone and phone to get them all.2. They need to support them both.3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI2. Example 2: They want to know how many POI's have changing tables (general: facilities for changing a nappy of a baby). There are some problems with this too: 1. They need to know both changing_table and the deprecated diaper to get them all.2. They need to support them both. Difficult because they're highly different tagging schemes.3. They need to remove one in case both keys are mapped on one POI. This really happens, see http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/OI5. Example 3: They want to develop a mapping tool and want to correct wrong typed in tags. There are some problems with that: 1. They need to know all possible tagging schemes existing for one purpose (e.g. mapping facilities for changing the nappy of a baby).2. They need to know the right/approved/more logical scheme.3. They need to know how to convert: diaper=yesdiaper:female=yes becomes after the transformation: changing_table=yeschanging_table:location=female_toilet Basically it bridges the OSM community and developers together, it might even resolve the conflict between iD developers and the community. > The project bridges different worlds and is therefore a bridge. > As bridge this project should not just connect different worlds > together and by ensuring peace between those but also support > exchange between those to develop a social economy of "send and > receive" This project should support the "come together" of (OSM) > developers and mappers. I want to hear your opinions on this and also feel not to shame to ask questions. My answers will be part of the clarification of the project "tagtransform for OSM". Cheers S??ren Reinecke alias ValorNaram ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: building tool is drawing circles
Ok thank you very much everyone for the help. -Tom On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 9:15 AM Pierre Béland wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > not a problem, but an enhancement :) > > Shortcut Ctrl-Alt-b to switch from square to circle, vice versa > > > > Pierre > > > Le jeudi 5 décembre 2019 08 h 33 min 18 s UTC−5, Thomas Gertin < > tger...@vt.edu> a écrit : > > > Does anybody else have this problem? My building tool is drawing circles > instead of rectangles. > > My JOSM version is 15492 > my Java version is 1.8.0_231 > > my building_tools plug-in is Version 35171 > > Thanks, > > Tom >
Re: building tool is drawing circles
Hi Thomas, not a problem, but an enhancement :) Shortcut Ctrl-Alt-b to switch from square to circle, vice versa Pierre Le jeudi 5 décembre 2019 08 h 33 min 18 s UTC−5, Thomas Gertin a écrit : Does anybody else have this problem? My building tool is drawing circles instead of rectangles. My JOSM version is 15492 my Java version is 1.8.0_231 my building_tools plug-in is Version 35171 Thanks, Tom
AW: building tool is drawing circles
Hi Tom, press Alt+R to change back to rectangle, Alt+Z changes to circles Gerd Von: Thomas Gertin Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Dezember 2019 14:29 An: josm-dev@openstreetmap.org Betreff: building tool is drawing circles Does anybody else have this problem? My building tool is drawing circles instead of rectangles. My JOSM version is 15492 my Java version is 1.8.0_231 my building_tools plug-in is Version 35171 Thanks, Tom
building tool is drawing circles
Does anybody else have this problem? My building tool is drawing circles instead of rectangles. My JOSM version is 15492 my Java version is 1.8.0_231 my building_tools plug-in is Version 35171 Thanks, Tom
